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Wednesday, May 16, 2018

The critical narrative

It's a good thing Man has moved beyond thinking in narrative, unlike the human race before the Sixteenth Century, or one might suspect that the collection of Jordanologists at Steve Sailer's place are guilty of doing so. Of course, this little collection doesn't even begin to address the many comments at YouTube insisting that I am only criticizing Jordanetics because I am, and one really has to quote one particular gentleman in order to fully appreciate the sentiment, "jelly".
I’m fascinated by the fact that Jordan Peterson has caused Vox Day to to go completely off the rails. I don’t get it, honestly. Can’t a man have many things to say that you find interesting and worthwhile, and others you disagree with without it causing you to condemn him unreservedly?

Vox Day is sort of a professional egotist. I suspect that Vox really hates Peterson because he thinks that he deserves Peterson’s large fanbase, salary and media attention.

It doesn’t surprise me in the least that Vox Day is loosing his cheese-wizz over this. As I said in other words in another post still awaiting moderation: Peterson may be the single greatest existential threat to the alt-right – and the Alt-right understands that. I think the Maoist left understands him as a enemy they are programmed to try to destroy at all costs, but they probably don’t understand that if he succeeds, he’s their death too, as much so as that of the Alt-right.

People like Vox Day are coming down with PDS (Peterson Derangement Syndrome). It’s most likely because they narcissistically think of themselves as more deserving of delivering the masses from evil.

Vox Day is an amateur troll who’s obviously chaffing at the reality of Jordan Peterson’s popularity and impact, while he toils away in obscurity, egged on only by his amen chorus of commenters who can’t tolerate even the mildest criticism. His latest Dorkstream is a rambling, incoherent assemblage of ad-homenims, such as saying Peterson is an “intellectual fraud”, whatever that means. Peterson is also claimed to have some five-degrees-of-separation link to John Podesta and George Soros. Yeah, whatever.

Vox has developed a strange obsession with Peterson, and at this point it’s rather pathetic. Vox is obviously a bright guy, but he has torn into Peterson with the fury of a scorned lover. He has convinced himself that Peterson is a minion of the Anti Christ, and Vox’s fanboys have gone all in with this supposed takedown. Not that Peterson cares, or even knows, who Vox is. Vox is sperging on Peterson and I think there is some serious projection going on.

Vox Day was never on the rails. Regardless of his ideology it’s pretty clear from his writing style that he’s a psycho.

I agree with your take on Auster and Vox Day, but Vox is in no way as intelligent as Auster was. Not even in the same league. Vox Day is an angry crank who babbles on and on about his 150+ IQ. If his IQ was above 110 I would be shocked.

You are right that Poz Day has lost his mind about this. Jealousy? Did JP bag Space Cunny?

The Vox Day vs. Jordan Peterson/Lawrence Auster vs. Mark Steyn thing is a sufficiently common phenomenon that it’s got a name: “the narcissism of small differences.” Back in the day, I was thoroughly dismayed by Auster’s constant attacks on Steyn, which seemed to surpass in vitriol anything he ever said about genuinely bad actors like, say, David Frum. And Day’s scorched earth tactics against Peterson are, if anything, still more “off the rails” – as you aptly put it. The word “narcissism” is particularly apropos in Day’s case – is there anybody on the internet so quick to toot his own horn – and to toot is so loudly?

it really is weird. i think VD is a very good ideas man and enjoy reading his thoughts on just about every topic (save sci-fi), but it seems like 15+ posts on JP in the last 3 days means jp is in his head like a blood clot.

I like Vox, but his reaction to Peterson is a bit cringey, he seems to be disagreeing with him on a different plane than Peterson intends to operate. He’s a shrink, not an Aristotelian philosopher – and he never claims to be. Vox’s reaction to Peterson’s sympathizers is also striking in that it feels unhinged.

VD is a joke. I stumbled on his blog one time. I saw he was making a big deal of his so-called American Indian heritage for some reason, so I mocked him by calling him Big Chief Blogging Eagle. Then he responded by saying “look how racist these leftist SJWs are” even though I had said nothing that could be construed as leftist. All I had done was mock him, which in his mind automatically makes me an “SJW.”
I find it mildly ironic that Peterson's defenders are defending an emotionally unstable, mentally ill individual who proclaims his dependence on mood-altering drugs using the narrative that I have lost my mind. The thing is, they are constantly attempting to set up a "I win, you lose" scenario, which is quite funny when you compare the critics of one Darkstream to the critics of a later one.
  1. How can you criticize him when you haven't even watched his videos?
  2. Well, maybe you've watched a video or two, but how can you criticize him when you haven't even read his book?
  3. He's just a psychologist helping people, he's not a philosopher! Wait, he said what?
  4. Well, just because he is trying to create a new philosophy doesn't mean it's a bad one!
  5. Just because you write a UN report doesn't mean you agree with it!
  6. Just because you worked with John Podesta was on doesn't mean you're associated with him.
  7. Just because the media asks you to appear on all the shows and leaps to your defense whenever someone calls you names doesn't mean you're not the legitimate opposition to the media.
  8. Why is Vox so obsessed with this? Something must be wrong with him! He must be jealous. Or crazy!
They can't seem to grasp that all I have been doing is systematically responding to their various defenses of the man, which keep popping up anew every time I knock one down. I don't care about Peterson himself, his life is a living hell of insecurity and fear. How stupid would you have to be to envy a man who sincerely believes that life is suffering; apparently the man can't even eat chocolate. It's his philosophy and his defenders with which I have the problem.

Of course as one wiser commenter noted, I agree in your description of VD’s personality, yet you do not address any of the arguments he has made. Weak sauce, that. And the differences between VD and JP are not small. They are at the foundations of their respective philosophies. Understanding this would require, again, reading what they have written. 

As far as the idea that I am jealous of Peterson, to the contrary, what profit a man to top the bestseller lists at the price of his intellectual soul? If I was prone to envy, I'd envy NN Taleb, or perhaps the guy who wrote Who Moved My Cheese. Anyhow, at this point, I've said pretty much all I needed to say until the book comes out. If you still take the man seriously at this point, that's on you now. The information is there.

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120 Comments:

Blogger lpdbw May 16, 2018 2:21 PM  

or perhaps the guy who wrote Who Moved My Cheese.

Classic jab, there, well-delivered.

Blogger artensoll May 16, 2018 2:24 PM  

"Regardless of his ideology it’s pretty clear from his writing style that he’s a psycho"

Dunno 'bout you, but that's why I like him...

Blogger Durandel May 16, 2018 2:25 PM  

Odd that they keep going back to jealousy. Is it possible many JBP fans are jealous of what they think is JBP’s life? The guy is making bank talking nonsense on social media. I guess for a lot of millennials, that’s something to be jelly about.

Blogger Nate May 16, 2018 2:32 PM  

Who Moved My Cheese. When your book title is so on-point that it enters normal conversation and everyone knows exactly it means.. you've accomplished something.

Blogger NO GOOGLES May 16, 2018 2:32 PM  

The jealousy thing is just an easy, no thinking required way to dismiss criticism. JBP's basic advice isn't bad, but it's also not original and is almost entirely just things that people should have heard from their parents by age 7. That we live in a society where so many people never actually got to hear those things from their parents means they think hearing them from Peterson means that he has some profound insight.

Anything past his most basic advice is just either deliberate nonsense sprinkled with appeal to authority of better known intellectuals or just the panicked insanity of a fearful man - I'm not entirely sure which JBP is. Either way, he's not worth listening to for anything past what a decent parent would tell their children.

Blogger Nathan Bruno May 16, 2018 2:37 PM  

The first comment lacks any sort of introspection; can't he accept you disagree about Jordan Peterson while having all sorts of interesting and worthwhile blog posts, such as those about the Minnesota Vikings, and just skip over your JP articles? Perhaps JP should address "our side can be devils because we are right; the other side must be angels."

Blogger NO GOOGLES May 16, 2018 2:38 PM  

Also, didn't all 3 of Scalzi's fans accuse you of jealousy?

Blogger Nathan Bruno May 16, 2018 2:38 PM  

"Scorned Lover"

They inch toward declaring they won't have sex with you, either.

Blogger Patrick Kelly May 16, 2018 2:39 PM  

Watching Vox deal with this is like watching Mr. Miyagi work over all the CK thugs, and then listen to them run squealing back to their dojo whining to their sensei (JP) about how mean nasty and evil their totally insane unprovoked attacker was.

Only they don't really have a dojo, and JP is like that guy in those ninja-fu spoof videos on YT with Master Ken on EnterTheDojoShow channel.

Blogger Nathan Bruno May 16, 2018 2:39 PM  

The word “narcissism” is particularly apropos in Day’s case – is there anybody on the internet so quick to toot his own horn – and to toot is so loudly?

--

Did he miss who is president?

Blogger ghostfromplanetspook May 16, 2018 2:40 PM  

Next thing you gonna tell me is Peterson hosts spirit cooking in his own house... please God no.

Blogger select star May 16, 2018 2:40 PM  

"They are constantly attempting to set up a "I win, you lose" scenario.".

SJW's/leftards etc... have feminine ways and don't like risk.

Blogger manfred arcane May 16, 2018 2:40 PM  

I take it that you are aware of Sargon's latest videos. If not, I suspect that you'll find it amusing.
https://youtu.be/pOdm6Ijby0E?t=1m31s

Blogger NO GOOGLES May 16, 2018 2:54 PM  

Sargon will defend Peterson to the hilt because Sargon is basically a dumber, bargain bin working class version of Peterson. He's got his own cult and everything.

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelpia May 16, 2018 2:55 PM  

You gotta admit, "Big Chief Blogging Eagle" is pretty funny.

Blogger DraveckysHumerus May 16, 2018 2:56 PM  

VD, initially upon reviewing your observations regarding JP I pretty much disagreed with your general position and actively wondered whether you had lost your way. Your analysis appeared shrill and well beneath the credible. Then I bothered to examine your position and support and, oh gosh golly!, I found myself persuaded and acknowledge my reactiveness. Stay the course. Not only are you astute but by exposing a freakish fraud you may be consolidating rightest dissidents and purging infiltrators. Thank you.

Blogger Anno Ruse May 16, 2018 2:58 PM  

> How stupid would you have to be to envy a man who sincerely believes that life is suffering; apparently the man can't even eat chocolate.

Says a Native American who doesn't live in America.

Anonymous Anonymous May 16, 2018 3:05 PM  

I was willing to give JP a pass on somethings mostly because I see him being better than many other academic psychologists, but that is a pretty low bar.

You have shown and many of his die-hard fans prove that he still plays to loose with ideas of meaning to be seen as following reality. He may be closer than some of his peers but he still way off from the line of demarcation.

I pray the man finds Jesus and takes the next steps.

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelpia May 16, 2018 3:06 PM  

DraveckysHumerus wrote:VD, initially upon reviewing your observations regarding JP I pretty much disagreed with your general position and actively wondered whether you had lost your way. Your analysis appeared shrill and well beneath the credible. Then I bothered to examine your position and support and, oh gosh golly!, I found myself persuaded and acknowledge my reactiveness. Stay the course. Not only are you astute but by exposing a freakish fraud you may be consolidating rightest dissidents and purging infiltrators. Thank you.

Yeah, I have to agree. I've been a mild defender of JP on this blog, but Vox has definitely altred my views. True, he has gone after JP with both barrels (or both bows and arrows, depending on your preferred weapons choice) and it's been a serious smackdown.

And then there's the manic JP persona, like he's mentally hyperventilating. It's certainly "off."

I was introduced to JP through the Cathy Newman tete-a-tete, which was a load of fun to watch. Of course, in that instance he's shooting fish in a barrel, and it's always productive for the culture to see a shrill third wave feminist harpy getting embarrassed.

But a clock twice a day -- etc. etc.

Anonymous Anonymous May 16, 2018 3:11 PM  

I think it was terribly low class of him to take a potshot at Space Bunny. Criticize the man all you want (if you have honest criticisms) but leave peoples family OUT of it.

Blogger Rabbi B May 16, 2018 3:12 PM  

@widlast

Spacebunny is just fine, dear.

Blogger select star May 16, 2018 3:14 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger select star May 16, 2018 3:19 PM  

"I think it was terribly low class of him to take a potshot at Space Bunny."

Standard Gamma behavior to take those kind of shots.

Blogger Brick Hardslab May 16, 2018 3:22 PM  

@21 Vox is pretty good about leaving someone's family out of it unless they pull his family in. Then you better hope your wife doesn't look like a half-troll. Or your daughter either.

Blogger Shawn Hetherington May 16, 2018 3:25 PM  

Personally, I would say that Vox's critique of Peterson would have been perfectly good if he'd kept it all on the intellectual level but, unfortunately, the quality of his criticism overall has been pretty up and down, ranging from the insightful to the paranoid IMHO.

Blogger matveidaniilovich May 16, 2018 3:42 PM  

"When the book comes out..."

Waitaminute? Was this announced elsewhere?

Blogger Seth Schueler May 16, 2018 3:45 PM  

Meme maybe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8JEiTVqCv0

Blogger Brian S May 16, 2018 3:45 PM  

zero substance in any of those comments, it's all "it feels like" projection BS. Vox basically did the equivalent of a Gallagher "good chocolate test", and JP didn't stick to the wall. I'm pretty sick of people who think they're smart but can't form an argument without trying to hit below the belt.

Blogger VD May 16, 2018 3:46 PM  

. Your analysis appeared shrill and well beneath the credible.

What was shrill about it? How is an analysis "shrill" anyhow?

I would say that Vox's critique of Peterson would have been perfectly good if he'd kept it all on the intellectual level but, unfortunately, the quality of his criticism overall has been pretty up and down, ranging from the insightful to the paranoid IMHO.

It's all based on the same information and the same sources. The only difference is your emotional reactions to different aspects of it.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd May 16, 2018 3:49 PM  

These guys don't know enough about Cluster B disorders to be diagnosing anyone. The same with their hating on the President.
To be an actual malignant narcissist, there has to be a "Grandiosity Gap," where the image and reality meet.
The President is a famous, celebrity-billionaire, married to an Eastern European model, and is also the most powerful man in the world.

Vox is a brilliant, wealthy publisher, from an apparently highly-talented family (commandant of the MC) who is married to an highly-attractive wife and lives in freaking Italy. He probably has a Fiat he's not telling us about.

Neither of those men are narcissists. They could be severely arrogant, and it would simply be a reflection of reality.

If arrogance is based on reality, it isn't pathological, because positive feedback supports the individual's self-esteem.
With a malignant narcissist, there is delusion involved. That's a mandatory prerequisite. For the malignant narcissist, the world is not providing him with the feedback necessary for severe arrogance. Hence the lying, hatred, rage, grudges, and crippling jealousy. Justifiable arrogance doesn't cause those kinds of traits like true malignant narcissism does.

I never liked Peterson. Maybe it's because I'm an academic, and around his type (yes, he has the standard academic personality. He is not special or a revolutionary at all) but he is eapecially pathetic from my perspective.

All the man does is take standard, academic boilerplate, and twist the surface of it so that it might seem slightly red-pilled. Like putting a book cover of "Culture of Critique" over "Night."

Blogger OGRE May 16, 2018 4:05 PM  

@9 Patrick Kelly

Watching Vox deal with this is like watching Mr. Miyagi work over all the CK thugs

I think you have it all mixed up. This ain't Miyagi-do here, this is Cobra Kai!

Strike First
Strike Hard
No Mercy

See this for a more apt comparison:

https://youtu.be/D0krgZn9SjA?t=27s

Blogger Shawn Hetherington May 16, 2018 4:07 PM  

@28, "It's all based on the same information and the same sources. The only difference is your emotional reactions to different aspects of it."

Not really, everyone can easily see the issues when you critique his view on medieval philosophy or what have you. It's much harder to see how being a member of an intellectual club that gets written up in the NYT makes him controlled opposition or how the fact that he ran from a fight at 11 proves he's a "gamma" at 60.

Blogger Wanderer May 16, 2018 4:18 PM  

Shawn Hetherington wrote:It's much harder to see how being a member of an intellectual club that gets written up in the NYT makes him controlled opposition
Imagine being this naive.

Blogger Mocheirge May 16, 2018 4:21 PM  

Shawn Hetherington wrote:It's much harder to see how being a member of an intellectual club that gets written up in the NYT makes him controlled opposition

Uh... even in the kingdom of the blind, you would be considered remarkably unobservant.

Blogger VD May 16, 2018 4:23 PM  

how the fact that he ran from a fight at 11 proves he's a "gamma" at 60.

It doesn't prove that he's a gamma. It is merely one of many pieces of evidence.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 16, 2018 4:33 PM  

"I've said pretty much all I needed to say until the book comes out."

Jordanetics: The Book, to be sold via Jordanetics: The Website?

Blogger Peaceful Poster May 16, 2018 4:35 PM  

Here is a quote from JP's daughter who has a diet blog:

He (JP) had good results with the previous diets. In the greater scheme of things, I would say excellent results. We managed to keep the extreme depressive episodes away, he’s off medication, he lost 50+ pounds, his autoimmune symptoms went away. All in all, great results.

So why the change? He’s doing it for almost the same reason as I did. His anxiety still isn’t under control. It’s under control enough to not need medication, but he still wakes up in the morning with the dread feeling. I had this before I went zero-carb too. Dread, in the morning, fading off by the evening. A little bit too much volatility. Still not a great way to live, even if it’s not full blown depression. s right now.


http://mikhailapeterson.com/2018/04/08/jordan-petersons-diet-zero-carb/

Blogger L May 16, 2018 4:35 PM  

"i think VD is a very good ideas man and enjoy reading his thoughts on just about every topic (save sci-fi)."

Holy crap, this is a tell, at least if he's saying he disagrees with Vox's views on sci-fi (as opposed to just not being a sci-fi fan). Assuming this is the case, I don't see how anyone can disagree with Vox's views on sci-fi without disagreeing with Vox on just about everything else. His sci-fi views are well-integrated with his other viewpoints, imo.

Blogger Resident Moron™ May 16, 2018 4:37 PM  

Well Shawn, it’s kind of a newbie mistake to conflate your own lack of vision with the actual limits of possibility.

Reality is, in reality, not constrained by what you find hard to see.

This news may come asa shock to you. I understand. I was once young and stupid, too.

Blogger electricsheeple May 16, 2018 4:44 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Shawn Hetherington May 16, 2018 4:46 PM  

@38, I agree that I could be wrong, of course but the possibility that I might be wrong doesn't establish that I am.

So far as I can see, the article in question was a one off and not a part of a broader conspiracy. I guess time will tell.

Blogger electricsheeple May 16, 2018 4:48 PM  

The reason why we know that VD isn't "jelly" is simply due to the fact that he calls himself Alt-Right. You really don't need to look any further. It doesn't really need to get any more complicated than this.


The main stream media will never allow any intellectual onto their platforms who embraces that label "Alt Right" (or any of the views that pertain to that label).

VD, could have come up with something else like "New Right" in an attempt to make himself more palatable to those closer to the center (I'm not dissing anyone associated with the New Right label. I like many of those people).

All I'm saying is, that anyone who embraces the Alt Right label, simultaneously rejects the current mainstream establishment and all the publicity that comes with it.


Calling yourself Alt Right is an invitation to the mainstream establishment, for them to call you a nazi etc.

I'm actually quite shocked and pleased that Alex Jones welcomed VD on the show. VD is, to my knowledge, the only Alt Right figure welcomed on the show (unless you count David Duke who brought on the show as an adversary).

Blogger Gianna May 16, 2018 4:50 PM  

OT - Another plane crash. Apparently this rabbi was very influential in training the next generation of rabbis.

http://huc.edu/about/presidents-office/rabbi-aaron-d-panken-zl-phd

Blogger Looking Glass May 16, 2018 5:00 PM  

@36 Peaceful Poster

Over-activity in certain segments of the brain and under-activity in inhibitory transmitter production. Given the anxiety, it's likely the Glutamate-GABA cycle that's most highly effected.

Clearly heritable, as well, which probably means it's a receptor isoform that doesn't clear as effectively. It also means he'd crack under heavy pressure, which makes him rather easy to control.

Odds are he also has extensive stomach issues that cause problems as well.

Given all of that together, going zero carb is valuable. It should extend his life by 10 or so years, as his productive work-life is going to close pretty rapidly if he didn't. Even zero carb, he might end up diabetic by his early 60s. Receptor agonist disorders do a lot of damage to many body systems, and one of the really sensitive ones is insulin uptake.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 16, 2018 5:04 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger My Dead Gramps May 16, 2018 5:05 PM  

I keep hearing about 'Vox Day the failed sci-fi author', nothing about fantasy. Didn't even know you wrote sci-fi, just published.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 16, 2018 5:05 PM  

Wynn Lloyd wrote:He probably has a Fiat he's not telling us about.
It's a Classic

Blogger SirMaorio May 16, 2018 5:07 PM  

the guy will be entered into the contest of writing the same thing over and over again with the largest amount of words...

what will point 9 and 10 be in the defense of JP? will they amount up to 16 points? just so we can get the juicy comparison to the 16 points of the alt-right? would be very classy move of them to get another 8 points together

Blogger Patrick Kelly May 16, 2018 5:08 PM  

OGRE wrote:@9 Patrick Kelly

Watching Vox deal with this is like watching Mr. Miyagi work over all the CK thugs

I think you have it all mixed up. This ain't Miyagi-do here, this is Cobra Kai!

Strike First

Strike Hard

No Mercy

See this for a more apt comparison:

https://youtu.be/D0krgZn9SjA?t=27s


That is the new CK, and for rhetoric either way works.

In the original KK Danielson and Miyagi are the good guys/heroes. I have a strong visceral dislike for asshole bullies, especially ones who gang up on the smaller and weaker, so I cheer joyfully when they get what they deserve and lots of it.

I'm a bit more ambivalent when smaller weaker punks poke and provoke them and run screaming to hide behind their daddy. That's another description for the JP cult. And the currently "protesting" Palestinians.

Blogger Garuna May 16, 2018 5:30 PM  

All this started with Peterson's dishonesty on the JQ. None of his fans will even address that anymore. Let alone all the other dishonesty that has been unearthed since then.

We have to conclude that his fans are just as dishonest as he is. They will only move goalposts, avoid debate, whine, and fling insults. For all the talk about masculinity, they argue like a bunch of girls. In PUA terms, they are betas.

Blogger GAHCindy May 16, 2018 5:33 PM  

"Vox is a brilliant, wealthy publisher, from an apparently highly-talented family (commandant of the MC) who is married to an highly-attractive wife and lives in freaking Italy. He probably has a Fiat he's not telling us about."

What's funny is that I read VD for quite some time without ever knowing any of these big status signifiers. I don't know how wealthy he is, or wants us to think he is. Spacebunny is gorgeous, but he never really said much until detractors started to say she doesn't even exist. The mensa thing from the blurb on wnd was about as much bragging as he ever did, and that was pretty easy to miss. He's definitely as smart as he says he is. I read him for the quality of his thoughts and writing, with little thought of his personality or life. Then people tried tearing him down on a personal level and, little by little, because he was provoked, it was gradually revealed just how much Vox actually keeps to himself that lesser men would love to brag about. Of course, they're lesser men, so they can't. :-P He's actually quite humble, just not falsely so. When people don't have much to be proud of, they don't understand you're not bragging when you're just stating facts.

Why, though, can't JP eat chocolate, though, pray tell?

Blogger Garuna May 16, 2018 5:38 PM  

The "intellectual dark web" seeks liberal validation. So do its fans. They are projecting that validation-starved mentality onto the rest of us. Thus "muh jelly". I think these betas are literally incapable of understanding the "fuck you" attitude and win-win-win mentality that we have. They are happy as long as liberals pat them on the head and tell them "at least you're not one of those deplorables".

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 16, 2018 5:39 PM  

GAHCindy wrote:Why, though, can't JP eat chocolate, though, pray tell?
If he deviates from a zero-carb diet he falls into depression.

Blogger tublecane May 16, 2018 5:45 PM  

The JPQ (Jordan Peterson Question) has turned out to be more revealing than I could have imagined. Not as revealing as Trump, who makes people be publicly crazy. But the JPQ "unmasks" people along Trumpian lines.

iSteve generally has good commentary, intelligent and intellectually diverse. Within the dissident right, that is, though there are some Old Lefties and assorted oddballs, as. Too civic nationalist, but there are only so many quality places to talk on the internet.

I used to comment there often, but haven't visited in a while. I, too, was disappointed by their reaction to Peterson. It's strange, in that very few are emotionally tied to him. More like they've heard of him, watched a video or three, and think he's a swell fella.

What is their malfunction? What does the JPQ reveal about them? Basically, it's one of the main faults of conservatism. They wanna be liked. Though they may despise mainstream culture and elite culture more, they want to be included. Accepted. Respected. Desperately, they want these things.

They've bought into or at least sufficiently fear the Narrative about the alt-right being a bunch of loser weirdos. Along comes a well-groomed, well-spoken, credentialed smarty-pants to whom the MSM actually listens. And he agrees that SJWs are crazy! And he likes Bible stories! He's doesn't have Nazi uniforms in his closet, and if there are Red Army ones, well, that's socially acceptable even to righties.

Social proof is important. We want to get back to a place where society shuns atheists, abortionists, homos, and so forth, instead of us. But the way that happens is not by ingratiating yourself with current mainstream culture. That's not how the left did it, and they're in charge.

Correction, the left does ingratiate itself. It has many tactics. But one of its favorite tactics is deliberately being as irritating, weird, and anti-social as possible. Certainly its ability to be safe and Jordan Peterson-y was not what got it into power.

Blogger GAHCindy May 16, 2018 5:51 PM  

Oh, that is sad. I'm very low-carb, but I still give myself some chocolate occasionally.

Blogger tublecane May 16, 2018 5:52 PM  

Another thing: the right is sick of in-fighting. Plenty see Vox vs. Peterson in terms of that. But of course Peterson is not "in." He's not one of us.

A goodly portion of rightists are still under the impression that the way you build a base is by inviting people the center in by kicking out "extremists" and being nicey-nice. Which is the Conservative Inc. way, with its legacy of failure.

Instead, attack leftward. Purge leftward. Convert moderates, yes. But not by moderating yourself. By being strong and dispensing Truth.

Blogger Garuna May 16, 2018 5:52 PM  

It's much harder to see how being a member of an intellectual club that gets written up in the NYT makes him controlled opposition

Not controlled opposition. Approved opposition. Meaning the enemy does not expect them to win. They adhere to some key liberal myths such as "jews only win because le 115 iq" and "diversity/immigration is good" and "group identity is bad (only directed at whites)". Because of this, they will always cuck to protect their status. And the enemy is right. Compare the 2016 performances of Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, John Kasich, Evan McMullin, and Gary Johnson versus the performance of Donald Trump.

If the """"intellectual"""" """"dark"""" web was a threat, the media would do everything possible to kill their careers like they did to Milo. This is simply the truth. Only a fool would deny it.

or how the fact that he ran from a fight at 11 proves he's a "gamma" at 60.

VD: "It doesn't prove that he's a gamma. It is merely one of many pieces of evidence."


Also running away from a fight is beta af. Even at 11. I remember getting into fights when I was 8 years old and I never ran away. Even when I was up against older, taller, and stronger people.

Blogger Looking Glass May 16, 2018 5:52 PM  

@52 Snidely Whiplash

It's more the diet pushes him out of the state. If you need that controlled of a diet to avoid the issues, then your default state is actually the depression.

Which actually goes to Vox's points about JP. "Depression" is something like the utter opposite of what you think it is, at the neuro-physiological level. It's a highly defensive, self-preservation state that the mind enters to prevent too my neuronal activity. It actually uses a pretty significant amount of energy, but its utilization is fairly radically changed.

Normally, a human would go into a depressive state, not do much for a few days, then recover. In modern days, most of what is called "depression" really isn't, it's just other things that are broken. In the case of someone like JP, it's clearly a genetic trait (which puts it in all of 1-3% of cases), which means there actually is something wrong and it's not really solvable. It can be worked around, but that's a deep effector on practically the entirety of your life.

Though if he was having other autoimmune issues, the diet change probably had more to do with giving the immune system a rest. After something becomes "chronic", you enter a point where you are "sick because you are sick". A lot more is probably wrong with the man, as well, because of this.

Given all of that, he's going to have opinions & desires that are going to be almost wholly warped because of the issues. Protective instincts will drive you to adapt to "optimal" solutions.

Blogger L' Aristokrato May 16, 2018 5:53 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:GAHCindy wrote:Why, though, can't JP eat chocolate, though, pray tell?

If he deviates from a zero-carb diet he falls into depression.


That must be God's way of telling someone they should kill themselves.

Blogger Looking Glass May 16, 2018 5:57 PM  

@56 Garuna

The move to create the "Intellectual Dark Web" was actually a Divide & Constrain move. They basically have to out-group the Cernos and "pat on the head" in-group the JPs. They have to prevent the cross-pollination of ideas, as the real ideas will win out, over time. Can't have that.

Though the way they've been acting, in a lot of this stuff lately, is showing clearly signs of rear-guard action. They're trying to do anything to prevent the coming reckoning. It won't work, but they'll try as if they're lives depend on it. Which they actually do.

Blogger Last Redoubt May 16, 2018 6:09 PM  

I love how "narcissist" gets tossed at Vox even by people nominally on our side of the left.

I think they've never actually recognized one. Or met someone that is actually very smart, as opposed to simply "smarter than average"

Arrogant? Yeah, Vox has claimed that himself - and I've seen how midwits love to claim they're arrogant, narcissists, or "just trying to look smart/talk over people's heads/look down on people" when the gods honest truth is half the time the people they project their insecurities on are dialing it DOWN.

But Narcissists would never admit the mistakes and faults that Vox has - any they would cop to would be humblebrags of the "I work too hard" variety. Or speak as plainly, precisely, and without dancing around the topic.

Blogger tublecane May 16, 2018 6:11 PM  

@56- I haven't been in many real fights, but there were brief instances in which I was tormented and experienced a mild fight-or-flight sensation. It never would have occurred to to literally run away. I either fought or, if that wasn't possible under conditions, sat and suffered.

Running and hiding among bike racks is plain weird.

Blogger Last Redoubt May 16, 2018 6:12 PM  

@5. NO GOOGLES

The jealousy thing is just an easy, no thinking required way to dismiss criticism

"You're just jealous" along with "you're just angry" are, like, the ultimate disqualifiers, like, seriously.

They certainly take Yoda's "anger leads to fear" schtick far to seriously.

Blogger Last Redoubt May 16, 2018 6:18 PM  

@29 Wynn

These guys don't know enough about Cluster B disorders to be diagnosing anyone. The same with their hating on the President.
To be an actual malignant narcissist, there has to be a "Grandiosity Gap," where the image and reality meet.
The President is a famous, celebrity-billionaire, married to an Eastern European model, and is also the most powerful man in the world.

Vox is a brilliant, wealthy publisher, from an apparently highly-talented family (commandant of the MC) who is married to an highly-attractive wife and lives in freaking Italy. He probably has a Fiat he's not telling us about.

Neither of those men are narcissists. They could be severely arrogant, and it would simply be a reflection of reality.


They do like to throw that term, like many others, around regardless of what the words actually mean..

Blogger Anonymous Conservative May 16, 2018 6:21 PM  

We take these things seriously, as if they are as they appear. But I surf the Chans, yet I almost never post or comment. I am here all the time, but I never post. Tens of thousands will see this post, and not reply. Replies are rare among those who are surfing to absorb information, so I would never assume any of these replies are even real.

When you have a machine-supported entity like Peterson, I suspect a lot of the replies are actually machine-funded comments by comment farms. Calling you "jelly" is not what a normal person would say, but a professional persuader would recognize the unusual aspect of the word will trigger the amygdala, and make it first stand out, and then stick. And the underlying concept of soft, mushy, lacking substance, and weak will stick in many of the weaker, more moldable minds in a strange, hypnotic fashion as they disregard and gloss over it.

I know Vox is probably the apex of what a non-machine-supported right-intellectual will do at the outer edge of the envelope in terms of performance in gathering audience and book sales. And I know when you see a Peterson sell enough books to get on a best seller list, and then not get blacklisted form that list, he is a machine property, executing a machine objective.

So I increasingly suspect when you see anybody like Peterson, much, if not the vast majority of his online support is being supplied by some sort of online support machine. Ask yourself who cared enough to post those comments? I think many are astroturfed.

We know there is a machine. I think the most interesting question is, how big is that machine, and just how far does it go to promote and support its properties?

Blogger VD May 16, 2018 6:32 PM  

I know Vox is probably the apex of what a non-machine-supported right-intellectual will do at the outer edge of the envelope in terms of performance in gathering audience and book sales.

I think Milo is probably the ceiling, actually.

Blogger Flair1239 May 16, 2018 6:48 PM  

I disagree with Vox on the Peterson issue. Both what he has to say and how he has approached the situation.

I have watched the Darkstreams (on YouTube, because I got banned for arguing. It was my fault I was warned). I have read what Vox has wrote.

I’ve rewatched some videos with Vox’s criticisms in mind and I just don’t agree. The whole reality thing is mostly word play. I don’t think Peterson disagrees with basic scientific facts as reality, in his videos he says as much. He is using “Truth” in a context other than the literal meaning of the word. Which I now agree is annoying, but I get what he (Peterson)trying to do.

For my part I am accepting on this point I disagree with Vox. Maybe I will regret it.

Blogger S'mon May 16, 2018 6:48 PM  

I thought this was rather good:

"But, having examined Peterson’s work closely, I think the “misinterpretation” of Peterson is only partially a result of leftists reading him through an ideological prism. A more important reason why Peterson is “misinterpreted” is that he is so consistently vague and vacillating that it’s impossible to tell what he is “actually saying.” People can have such angry arguments about Peterson, seeing him as everything from a fascist apologist to an Enlightenment liberal, because his vacuous words are a kind of Rorschach test onto which countless interpretations can be projected."

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-deserve

Nathan Robinson, from March 14th 2018.

Blogger tublecane May 16, 2018 6:54 PM  

@18- "the Cathy Newman tete-a-tete, which was loads of fun to watch"

Yes, but at the time I was frustrated by what I perceived as Peterson pulling his punches. Not that I could do better, because I probably suck at tv. But like you said, fish in a barrel.

Maybe he was going easy on her, but just as likely I was frustrated because he actually agrees with her on a fundamental level. He won't destroy her because he's trying to make her a better liberal.

Reminds me a bit of Buckley vs. Vidal, in the sense that one keeps waiting for Buckley to finally tear into Vidal, but he never does. Like the debate is merely preliminary to a real debate, which never comes.

That's because Buckle wasn't trying to do what I thought he was there for. He had another agenda.

Blogger Samuel Nock May 16, 2018 6:55 PM  

“because his vacuous words are a kind of Rorschach test onto which countless interpretations can be projected."

Peterson is to philosophy and self-help what Obama was to politics. Obama was used to allow people from across the political spectrum to project onto him what they wanted to see. And Obama was a Trojan Horse for the globalist Left. Same with Peterson.

Blogger Dire Badger May 16, 2018 6:57 PM  

"Did JP bag Space Cunny?"


I hope, for your sake, that you get the opportunity to turn this 'particular gentleman's' face into jelly. The fuck is wrong with him?

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira May 16, 2018 6:58 PM  

Peterson's body language is enough to diagnose him. He's a crazy bastard.

Blogger tublecane May 16, 2018 7:06 PM  

@31- "being a member of an intellectual club that gets written up in the NYT makes him controlled opposition"

We've been over this before, with no progress. But I'll try again.

You left our the fact that the club popped into existence out of nowhere, and may not actually exist, even as a plant.

Aside from that, you don't get written up in the NYT as a non-left dissident group unless they're pointing and shrieking at you. Or possibly asking "Help, what is this strange thing?" If you're a real danger, they either won't know about you or will deliberately ignore you until they have a plan to destroy you.

What they absolutely never do is put out fair articles giving you credibility, even if they don't fully agree with you. That just doesn't happen with real opposition.

Anonymous Anonymous May 16, 2018 7:14 PM  

Lost in all the defensive flak is the fact that Peterson was the one who lashed out at people who questioned his math on Jewish question. He has a habit of getting angry and expressing his ire in the form of insults.

I never paid much attention to him in the past, largely because of his reliance on Jung and Freud. (Irony alert: one of Freud's goals was to undermine western culture). His stance on the pronoun controversy was daring, given Canada's dominant value system.

I recall thinking that he didn't appear to be quite right in some ways. His odd manner of speaking, his tendency to ramble and engage in digressions, and his penchant for emphatic statements about impending genocides.

The Jewish issue (and Vox's subsequent critique) made me pay attention. Although I have only had a cursory look, it is clear that his written work has some major deficiencies. Unlike a lot of his followers, I do have academic cred, including a (decade+ old) degree in philosophy and some experience writing and reviewing peer reviewed journal articles.

To be honest, his writing has some major issues. His books are meandering, deliberately murky, and suffer from some of the same tricks (e.g., name dropping, as Vox noted) that are common fare in post-modernist academic philosophy. I wish I had more time to delve into a substantive critique.

I believe that he is being promoted because he is useful for the general program of transforming western cultures through mass immigration and other means. That is why the UN engagement is not a surprise, nor is the warm reception with the (largely jewish) 'dark web' crowd.

His supporters seem to be chalking this up to a personal dispute when they should be sitting down and asking themselves why a supposedly dangerous counterculture thinker is being promoted heavily by Jewish media types. Such individuals tend to promote those who share their own worldview.

Blogger tublecane May 16, 2018 7:19 PM  

@66- "The whole reality thing is mostly wordplay"

Charlatans like wordplay.

"I don't think Peterson disagrees with basic scientific fact as reality."

Neither do I, which is why I think Peterson is a fraud.

Anonymous Anonymous May 16, 2018 7:23 PM  

It's not up to me to tell our esteemed host what to write about, but I am puzzled as to why he is spending so much time on Jordan Peterson. I can think of only two reasons why I would take this much trouble to engage with a thinker: either he is dangerous, or he is interesting.

I may definitely be wrong about this, but I don't see Peterson as being very influential. I had never heard of the guy before Vox mentioned him (but there are a lot of famous people I've managed to ignore, so that's not a fair test). Maybe he is getting enough attention among people who matter to make his sloppy thinking dangerous...but I don't see it.

A philosopher doesn't have to be right to be interesting: there are philosophers whose mistakes make them worthy of study. Philosophers like G.E. Moore or Bertrand Russell are definitely worth attention, even though they often made mistakes. But as Vox has pointed out, Peterson's thinking is not only wrong much of the time, but he's also derivative and superficial. Philosophers who make interesting mistakes are the opposite: they are original and incisive thinkers who, in a field where it's hard to get anything right, go wrong in ways that are damned interesting.

So what am I missing about Peterson? Why is he important?

Blogger wreckage May 16, 2018 7:40 PM  

These people have never met a pugilist before, have they?

Also, as for off the rails: Vox doesn't HAVE rails. Yes he's dismaying at times, but he's also the best entertainment on TV this year, bar none.

Blogger The Smoking Man #3424 May 16, 2018 7:45 PM  

He is promoted as an intellectual savior to lost young men.
He lied about the Jewish IQ question.
It was brought to our Supreme Dark Lords attention, who then dismantled JP's argument.
JP fanboi's came out of the woodwork.
SDL could then smell the increasing aroma of Bullshyt as his fans wouldn"t leave the comments section alone.
Then hell came with him.
Our Dark Lord isn't a pussy, so he decided to break the illusion of all of the fanbois. violently.
His is only important because his cult attacked the Evil Legion of Evil.
This aggression will not stand, man.

Blogger The Smoking Man #3424 May 16, 2018 7:47 PM  

Hell, the VFM weren't even activated en masse
This is nothing.

Blogger Azimus May 16, 2018 7:48 PM  

I think manboobs (Scalzi) is VERY PLEASED you focused your dark arts on Peterson....

Blogger tz May 16, 2018 7:50 PM  

V Truth and VDare

The problem with this kind of utilitarian argument is analogous to saying being addicted to methadone, or cigarettes, or alchohol is better because it resulted in you stop using Heroin.

The addiction is the evil, not the particular target of the addiction.

I think it was Lewis that noted the greatest cardinal sin of Pride would instill "virtue" of a kind by breaking the other six sins and those of a lesser rank. I'm so wonderful I'm not greedy! I don't cheat on my wife! I'm so wonderful I can't envy. I'm so industrious and temperate, I never am slothful or gluttonous.

If Jordan Peterson is the cure, the cure is worse than the disease, though the effects will be subtle and take longer to show.

Blogger wreckage May 16, 2018 7:53 PM  

@ 75 Peterson has on a couple of occasions defended aspects of Christianity and biblical faith that even many mainstream - I believe Vox calls them "Churchians" - do not and will not. For someone who watched a handful of his videos - me frex, this made him very interesting, and just the fact that he's spoken some of these things means that he is and will be important.

I'm not arguing versus Vox here, because I prefer not to be intellectually rent limb from limb and my still-living torso hung from the city walls.

But I do assert that In all the chaff Peterson has, possibly accidentally, spoken some very dangerous truths, and those who think they can "manage the situation" by letting only smaller and less dangerous truths slip back into the public discourse are self-sabotaging much worse than they imagine.

One of Vox great contributions to my thinking is the "gamma" concept. The entire cultural-marxist, Trotskyite Left, is a giant gestalt Gamma. As such it self-sabotages COMPULSIVELY. Promoting Peterson might very well be born of the strategic goals Vox attributes to them, but it is vital to remember that the global Trotskyite wakes up every morning trembling, with their own Nagant in their mouth.

Again, not arguing with the SDL of the ELoL re: Peterson, just pointing out that the derivation of the meaning of Peterson isn't the same thing as the cultural phenomenon of Peterson.

Blogger Daniel Bendele May 16, 2018 7:59 PM  

Peterson will fade. He's not saying anything meaningful or lasting. The folks I have known who got into Peterson quickly tired of his shtick and wanted something more "meaty". I pointed them here.

For many he is a gateway drug to the Alt-Right. I appreciate Vox calling out his BS, but I don't think he is an existential threat. He has unintentionally done more good for us than bad and it is why he is so vehemently arguing that he's "Not Alt-Right" now.

Vox calling out his BS has probably brought even more young guys over to our side. When Peterson's 15 minutes are over, I believe the net result will be more people on our team. It's inevitable after all.

Blogger Akulkis May 16, 2018 8:03 PM  

@Anne Ruso

"
Says a Native American who doesn't live in America"

Freedom, baby.

Blogger Sterling Pilgrim May 16, 2018 8:05 PM  

Never heard of it... care to indulge my curiosity?

Blogger FUBARwest May 16, 2018 8:14 PM  

" until the book comes out. "

There's a new book coming out?

Blogger Wynn Lloyd May 16, 2018 8:14 PM  

Ha I'd take it. Just to tell people I had one.

Blogger Shawn Hetherington May 16, 2018 8:16 PM  

@72"What they absolutely never do is put out fair articles giving you credibility, even if they don't fully agree with you. That just doesn't happen with real opposition."

Well, I'm not disputing that this article was in the service the NYT's POV (or at least they thought it was). I don't think that establishes that they are controlled opposition in any real sense. At a minimum, there would need to be controlled somehow (which is not evident) and opposition (that most of the members don't even claim for themselves).

Blogger Kevin in the Midwest May 16, 2018 8:55 PM  

Hey, one of my comments pissed Vox off, neat!

Blogger VD May 16, 2018 9:24 PM  

Hey, one of my comments pissed Vox off, neat!

Always nice to hear from the gammas.

Blogger Al Du Clur May 16, 2018 9:25 PM  

The frenzy that Vox has created by attacking St. Peterson is just another manifestation of the feminization of the culture. Men are attracted to the idea of Peterson on an emotional, not intellectual level, and see any attack on Peterson as an attack on themselves. After all, if Peterson is an easy to recognize false messiah, what does that say about their intellectual insight.

Blogger SirHamster May 16, 2018 9:40 PM  

Anonymous Conservative wrote:So I increasingly suspect when you see anybody like Peterson, much, if not the vast majority of his online support is being supplied by some sort of online support machine. Ask yourself who cared enough to post those comments? I think many are astroturfed.

When Vox was starting out with JP criticisms, some of the comments in defense of JP reminded me a lot of the comments that popped up when Vox criticized the Alt-Retard as not being of the Right.

The polarity of those two camps are opposite on the JQ, which made the overlap in their style striking. Perhaps JP and Richard Spencer serve the same demographics.

Or perhaps their handlers hire the same botnet/astroturf to mold the Narrative and infiltrate the Right.

Blogger Kevin in the Midwest May 16, 2018 9:55 PM  

Whatever that even means. It appears to be anyone that disagrees with your most recent diatribe.

I’ve tried to be fairly open minded about this back and forth, but your rejection seems as strong as Peterson fanboy’s defense.

If Peterson was the charlatan you’ve exposed him to be, why not just let it go? Let him either overplay his hand or let his fifteen minutes run it’s course? Sure, there’s integrity, but there are far more sophists with far less integrity, why this one? I’m not asking rhetorically. Yes, he’s evil and all that (according to you, I’m mildly pro-Peterson to ambivalent) but so is everyone else on the establishment right. So, why Peterson? I’m genuinely curious. Minus Scalzi (who, I couldn’t care less about and still don’t rightly know nor care who he is), I’ve never seen such animus.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’m a gamma. Whatever.

Blogger English Tom May 16, 2018 9:59 PM  

Re: Sargons video. I just watched it. I enjoy Carl's work but he stated the official position re: Jewish high IQ without any reference to Vox's work on this subject, even though he mentions Vox in the video.

Blogger English Tom May 16, 2018 10:06 PM  

The man who says no to chocolate says no to life.

Blogger English Tom May 16, 2018 10:12 PM  

The fuck is wrong with him?

The only word used to describe that person is vile.

Blogger SirHamster May 16, 2018 10:22 PM  

Kevin in the Midwest wrote:If Peterson was the charlatan you’ve exposed him to be, why not just let it go?

Charlatan detected.

Vox has started looking into Peterson. He has found tidbits that hint of charlatanry.

The exposure is yet to come, and here you are, trying to discourage Vox and make him give it up.

Blogger Kevin in the Midwest May 16, 2018 10:32 PM  

I’m the charlatan but the exposure is always,
“just around the corner...” I can’t help but quote Ron Popiel: “But wait... there’s more!”

Blogger arende15 May 16, 2018 11:09 PM  

@66
"The whole reality thing is mostly wordplay"
"He is using “Truth” in a context other than the literal meaning of the word"

A deceiver deals in generals.

Anonymous Anonymous May 16, 2018 11:27 PM  

The polarity of those two camps are opposite on the JQ, which made the overlap in their style striking. Perhaps JP and Richard Spencer serve the same demographics.

I doubt they serve the same demographics, but they do serve the same chain of command. Anglin and Spencer are the latest version of the Hollywood Nazi type of fake opposition (outside polite society), while Peterson, Shapiro and IDW are Wm. F. Cuckley version 3.0 (setting the bounds of acceptable). They appeal to different elements but the intent is the same: to disable and thwart any actual opposition to the body-snatchers and their plans of genocidal utopia.

Anonymous Anonymous May 16, 2018 11:33 PM  

BTW, there's at least one Solzhenitsyn book the founder of Jordanetics absolutely does not want the soy-fanbois to read: 200 Years Together - still only available as samizdat in the allegedly "free" world.

Anonymous Anonymous May 16, 2018 11:37 PM  

NO GOOGLES wrote:
Sargon will defend Peterson to the hilt because Sargon is basically a dumber, bargain bin working class version of Peterson. He's got his own cult and everything.

Reminds me of Thomas Fleming's take on the doctrine cooked up by one of the earlier mountebanks, L. Ron Hubbard: Thin-gruel Satanism

Anonymous Anonymous May 17, 2018 12:11 AM  

What I see here is bunch of guys who argue about Jordan Peterson, because their leader said: "Jordan Peterson is all fucked up. Ahh, he talks like a fag, and his shit's all retarded." And they nod their heads approvingly.

Blogger Joey May 17, 2018 12:18 AM  

So since the other post when I asked you if you'd be willing to debate JBP I've been trying to get JBP to agree to a debate. To no avail.

So far I've run up against his fans who have to make excuses for him and attack opposition with vitriol.

The funniest defense of JBP I've heard is this: "He's a lecturer not a debater"

Big wow. I used to be an adjunct professor years ago and I can tell you, especially with the degraded state of colleges these days, being a lecturer isn't all that impressive. Hell, you don't even have to know the subject very well if you're a bullshiter!

Also, JBP likes to come across as an intellectual putting forth ideas. But he won't defend these ideas. I mean, I despise and have little in agreement with Noam Chomsky but at least the guy will have a debate and attempt to defend his stance.

Can you imagine if Socrates was just a lecturer and never had the infamous back-and-forth dialogues? How boring.

Blogger SirHamster May 17, 2018 12:50 AM  

genkong wrote:I doubt they serve the same demographics, but they do serve the same chain of command.

Thinking in terms of both targeting young white men, splitting on the JQ.

"Heil Hitler fellow white person, join us (((losers)))"

"don't play identity politics, bucko, now clean your room!"

Blogger Mr. Deficient May 17, 2018 1:02 AM  

@95

He eats an all meat diet. It's far healthier and more satisfying then one would think.

Blogger tublecane May 17, 2018 1:31 AM  

@99- "I doubt they serve the same demographic"

A large share of pretend-nazis are lost young men. Lost young men are of course Peterson's bread and butter.

Peterson's lost young men may not be the same lost young men as Spencer's, but they represent different multi-step strategies for dealing with the same problem. The lost young man problem.

Blogger tublecane May 17, 2018 1:38 AM  

@102- I don't believe you, but for your information I turned on Peterson the moment I saw that he wrote "the so-called 'Jewish Question,'" with scare quotes and everything. Because I knew he was either an ignoramus or arguing in bad faith. Didn't need Vox for that.

Blogger Lyon May 17, 2018 2:19 AM  

"...apparently the man can't even eat chocolate"

That's rich!

Blogger Garuna May 17, 2018 3:11 AM  

@Kevin in the Midwest

Quit posturing, faggot. Peterson is a dishonest rat and people are catching on. This is not complicated.

Anonymous Anonymous May 17, 2018 6:15 AM  

genkong wrote:BTW, there's at least one Solzhenitsyn book the founder of Jordanetics absolutely does not want the soy-fanbois to read: 200 Years Together - still only available as samizdat in the allegedly "free" world.

I have a copy on my Kindle, bought from Amazon. I assume that a hardbound is available. I can see why it's not a New York Times Best Seller--Solzhenitsyn says some pretty harsh things about Russian Jews, especially about their involvement in the Bolshevik revolution. Solzhenitsyn is all about the truth, and some truths are less palatable than others. For example, the fact that a majority of the revolutionaries were Jews.

The book was difficult to read for two reasons. First, the translation is not first rate. Not only is the translator's mastery of English (or perhaps of both English and Russian) less than stellar, but he just gives up at some points and says he can't make sense out of this or that passage. (Perhaps he didn't have a good manuscript to work from?)

Second, the Kindle version is rendered nearly illegible by formatting error that are so glaring that they look suspiciously like sabotage. It looks like the book was scanned by a monkey, then just converted into electronic form and published without even a cursory inspection. The page headings are included from every page, and just pop up randomly in the flow of the text. IN LARGE FONT.

Despite these problems, the book is well worth reading for anyone who wants an account of Russian-Jewish relations for the last few centuries.

Blogger Kevin in the Midwest May 17, 2018 6:41 AM  

As homenim aside...

What posture? I’ve said the entire time that the word is still out on Peterson. That was made plain the quote from iSteve that was cherry picked and I’ve said it in my responses here.

It is entirely possible to find good points in both sides of this debate. While it may be shocking to you, it’s possible to not be a Peterson fanboy and still disagree with certain points being made here. They aren’t mutually exclusive.

What's also incredibly interesting is that the posts quoted here were from a Sailer blog post in which he says ambiguous to mildly positive things about Peterson. Does that make Steve Sailer a gamma faggot too? Just curious.

Blogger Duke Norfolk May 17, 2018 6:56 AM  

jbwilson24 wrote:His stance on the pronoun controversy was daring, given Canada's dominant value system.

Excepting if he was never actually in any danger of really running afoul of the authorities. If it was all a show to give him cred with the right...

Blogger S'mon May 17, 2018 7:00 AM  

>>Does that make Steve Sailer a gamma faggot too?<<

I'd think both Steve and Vox would fit into the broad Delta category of VD's socio-sexual hierarchy, although I guess you'd have to ask a woman to be sure. :)

Blogger Peter Gent May 17, 2018 8:22 AM  

Austin Ballast wrote:Jaime,

The Israel of the OT ceased to exist. Show me a bona fide prophet and I will change my mind. Of course, that will put Christianity in a quandry.


Not really. It just means that the answers are not easy and it takes real, objective study to sort out the precious from the dross, the truth from the error. Most current Anabaptist Christians are Dispensationalists who embrace a pre-millennial rapture “theology” that is time dependent (a generation) from the supposed re-establishment of Israel as a nation (the current country) in 1948. It is the foundation of their reason for supporting the current country. Israel in this Dispensationalist scenario has a time-dependent timeline for their Second Coming/Rapture fulfillment. The problem is that their time dependent timeline ran out 40 years without anything happening, so it was conveniently extended to 70 years (the outside limit), which just passed last week, and still the rapture and Second Coming did not occur.

That failure leaves us with several things to consider:
1. This Israel is not true biblical Israel, but a usurper or pretender, since it is not the descendants of Jacob/Israel who primarily populate/run it. This Israel in name only.
2. Since Paul said only a remnant (Romans 11:5) would remain (biblically usually under 10,000 – see God’s discussion with Elijah) and this remnant is not a country in our modern sense but a people/nation that are descendants (genetically) of the original Hebrews. This is not the current country called Israel since about 80% of current Jews have Ashkenazi ancestry (non-Hebrew), so I would expect the remnant to be found somewhere in the remaining 20%. In addition, since the establishment of the Church, there is no biblical need for the country Israel to be re-established, which leads us to the next issue.
3. The biggest problem is that according to Romans 11:23 any remaining Israelites that would be regrafted into the God’s olive tree (symbol of His chosen people) would have to accept Jesus Christ as their Messiah. As Paul clearly says, “23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.” That is not true of modern Israel, so they cannot be the new regrafted olive tree, but could point to the growth of Messianic congregations of believers who are Hebrew in ancestry.

Evangelical Christian support for current Israel is based on a false biblical premise and should be discarded. That does not mean there are not legitimate reasons to support current Israel, but arguing they are the fulfillment of biblical prophecy is definitely not one of them.

Blogger Unknown May 17, 2018 8:38 AM  

Vox Day is sort of a professional egotist.

Vox Day is an amateur troll


The ignorance of those haters is hard to fathom. They can't even get these around the right way.

Blogger Joey May 17, 2018 11:07 AM  

As an addendum to my previous comment, I looked on FB today and there's an event coming up. A debate on Political Correctness and it will be a team debate between Stephen Fry/Jordan Peterson vs Michael Eric Dyson/Michelle Goldberg.

So apparently JBP will do debates but it's either with some shitty interviewer like Cathy Newman or some softball debate like this one where he has a debate partner.

If there's any JBP fans lurking here, consider convincing JBP to debate Vox Day. I've been told by his fans previously that he doesn't do debates but he does.

Blogger André Sanchez May 17, 2018 7:27 PM  

"Anyhow, at this point, I've said pretty much all I needed to say until the book comes out."

LOL

Blogger Roger G2 May 18, 2018 2:09 PM  

I have to say, reading that jordanologists’ post was the best and as yet only laugh I’ve had today. The JP buckaroos sure escalate things quickly.

Blogger Harry C May 20, 2018 9:01 AM  

I posted this brief review on FB on January 25th, having pre-ordered Rules for Life on amazon and received it immediately upon release:
"Hate to say it, but I was utterly unimpressed by Jordan Peterson's 12 Rules for Life. I devoured it last night like a bucket of KFC and it left me feeling similarly disgusted and under-nourished. It is both simplistic and relentlessly vague; and for the theistically minded, Peterson's philosophical presuppositions call for a hermeneutic of deep suspicion regarding both his interpretations of data and narrative intent.
"Grandma, what big words you use."
"All the better to lead you astray with, my dear."
** Of course, like various '12-step programs' they are disingenuously impervious to criticism; for any criticism is interpreted as evidence the critic is in desperate need of the steps and is tragically too proud to submit to their authority. I have no doubt that Peterson fans will be tempted to commit the same ad hominem fallacy."

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