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Sunday, May 06, 2018

The encyclopedia of Jordanetics

The great Umberto Eco unwittingly dismissed the incoherence of Jordanetics without even knowing Jordan Peterson was having nightmares about dogs walking on their hind legs, butchering his cousin and offering flesh to him and other survivors of a nuclear holocaust in FROM THE TREE TO THE LABYRINTH: Historical Studies on the Sign and Interpretation:
While in an ideal encyclopedia there are no differences between necessary and contingent properties, it must be admitted that, within a specific culture, certain properties appear to be more resistant to negation than others, on account of the fact that they are more salient: it could feasibly be denied, for instance, in the light of a new system of classification, that a sheep is ovine, or again this particular trait might not be deemed necessary to the understanding of the term sheep in the sentence: “the sheep was bleating in the field.” There can be no doubt, however, that it is hard to deny that a sheep is an animal—and the characteristic also remains implicit for the comprehension of the example we just cited. It has also been observed (Violi 1997: sect. 2.2.2.3) that some traits seem to be more resistant than others, and that these uncancelable traits are not only categorical labels such as ANIMAL or PHYSICAL OBJECT. In the life of semiosis we realize that we are also reluctant to cancel some “factual” properties that appear more salient and characteristic than others.

To explain why certain properties appear more resistant than others, Violi (1997: sect. 7.2) distinguishes between essential and typical properties: it is essential that a cat be an animal; it is typical that it meows. The second property can be canceled, but not the first. But if this were to be the case we would be back again to the same old difference between dictionary and encyclopedic properties. Violi (1997: sect. 7.3.1.3) instead considers properties that are functional and certainly encyclopedic in nature to be similarly uncancelable: hence it is difficult to say of something that it is a box and at the same time deny that it can contain objects (if it couldn’t it would be a fake box).
Often, however, in order to construct and presuppose a local portion of encyclopedia needed for the comprehension of a determined context, we must resort to simplified local representations that set aside many properties that are otherwise (in other contexts) resistant.

In Eco (1984b: sect. 2.3.4) I gave the example of a dialogue between a wife and her husband at midnight in a suburban home. The wife looks out the window and says with a preoccupied air, “Honey, there’s a man in the garden.” The husband takes a look and says, “No, honey, that’s not a man.” The husband’s reaction certainly violates a pragmatic rule because it provides less information than the situation calls for, since denying the presence of a man could on the one hand suggest that what is there is a child or a cat, while on the other hand it could also lead his wife to imagine something more dangerous (why not an invader from outer space?).

In this context, when she is afraid there may be a man there, the wife surely does not assign to the term the properties of rationality, bipedality, or the ability to laugh—all properties that in that context are narcotized (cf. Eco 1979a: ch. 5) and considered irrelevant, but instead those of a living being, capable of movement and aggression and therefore potentially—at night and in someone else’s garden—dangerous. Because it is also part and parcel of the infinite encyclopedic properties of man to be prone to take up a life of crime (don’t we all know that homo homini lupus, man is a wolf to men?) The husband ought then to adjust his iteration on the basis of a local encyclopedic representation, one that he conjecturally considers shared (given the circumstances) by his wife.

If the husband wishes to calm his wife down he must either exclude immediately the property of mobility (by saying, for example, that what she saw was the shadow of a tree) or deny any suggestion of properties suggesting dangerousness (in which case he might say that it wasn’t a man but a stray dog). The ad hoc construction of a local portion of encyclopedia, that organizes only the properties pertinent to the context, is the only strategy that will allow the husband to interact in a reasonable way with his concerned wife.
Jordanetics turns this sort of sensible pragmatism on its head. Consider how it applies to the situation envisioned by Eco. Since truth is determined by whether it serves life or not, the wife's fear means that the claim that the object in the garden is a man must be true, since the mere possibility that the object is a man and therefore a potential risk to the man's wife and family would serve life, whereas ignoring, denying, or rejecting that possibility, and by doing so, failing to accept the wife's narrative, would not only not serve life and therefore be untrue, but would add unnecessarily to the suffering of the wife. Ergo, in the absence of conclusive proof that the object is not a man or otherwise dangerous entity such as an invader from space, it would be evil to do anything except accept the wife's narrative and behave accordingly.

Notice too the logical consistency and the precision of Eco's thought. Peterson's Maps of Meaning, which I am reading now, reads like a parody of the legitimate academic and intellectual that Eco was, when it is not downright sinister.
My interest in the Cold War transformed itself into a true obsession. I thought about the suicidal and murderous preparation of that war every minute of every day, from the moment I woke up until the second I went to bed. How could such a state of affairs come about? Who was responsible?

I dreamed that I was running through a mall parking lot, trying to escape from something. I was running through the parked cars, opening one door, crawling across the front seat, opening the other, moving to the next. The doors on one car suddenly slammed shut. I was in the passenger seat. The car started to move by itself. A voice said harshly, “there is no way out of here.” I was on a journey, going somewhere I did not want to go. I was not the driver.

I became very depressed and anxious. I had vaguely suicidal thoughts, but mostly wished that everything would just go away. I wanted to lie down on my couch, and sink into it, literally, until only my nose was showing—like the snorkel of a diver above the surface of the water. I found my awareness of things unbearable.

I came home late one night from a college drinking party, self-disgusted and angry. I took a canvas board and some paints. I sketched a harsh, crude picture of a crucified Christ—glaring and demonic—with a cobra wrapped around his naked waist, like a belt. The picture disturbed me—struck me, despite my agnosticism, as sacrilegious. I did not know what it meant, however, or why I had painted it. Where in the world had it come from?
It should not be hard to see that Jordanetics is an incoherent philosophy of fear, concocted by a very fearful and mentally disturbed individual who is not the driver of it. And since we, as Christians, are not given a spirit of fear, Jordanetics is neither a theology nor a philosophy for us.

Research request: Transcripts of Peterson videos would be very useful for a comprehensive deep dive into his philosophy. If you're willing to transcribe a video for me, please shoot me an email with however many you'd be willing to do, keeping in mind that his lectures usually last around an hour, and I will give you a list. Don't do any without getting a specific request from me, since we want to avoid redundancy.

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73 Comments:

Blogger Ingot9455 May 06, 2018 7:50 PM  

To state the obvious, Eco's work entirely eschews 'I'.
If you are writing a book about Maps of Meaning but you only talk about yourself, you got problems.

(It's one thing to use your personal examples in a rhetorical work, or on occasion. But every freaking paragraph?)

Blogger Teleros May 06, 2018 7:54 PM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdPEea0ddeE&feature=youtu.be&t=9m46s

This was originally posted by Cloom Glue in this thread:

https://voxday.blogspot.co.uk/2018/05/why-i-am-crucifying-crazy-christ.html

Blogger Flair1239 May 06, 2018 7:55 PM  

Peterson would say that the wife’s description was “true enough” to survive.

Just like prairie dogs have calls for
Different threats. Air or ground, not identifying the specific animal.

Blogger VD May 06, 2018 7:58 PM  

This was originally posted by Cloom Glue in this thread

Beautiful. Thank you.

Blogger ghostfromplanetspook May 06, 2018 8:09 PM  

Why not donate to his patreon for youtube q and a info seasons that are for free anyway because its youtube.

Blogger Teleros May 06, 2018 8:11 PM  

Glad I could help.

By the way, are these transcripts of any use?

https://jordanbpeterson.com/category/transcripts/
https://beyondhumannature.wordpress.com
https://www.mikeshappyplace.com/how-to-be-happy-articles/

Seems his fans have been doing a fair bit of the work already.

Blogger VD May 06, 2018 8:12 PM  

I will check them out, thanks.

Blogger Lovekraft May 06, 2018 8:23 PM  

Peterson's anxiety is in part due to the extent of the nuclear war threat and how removed he is from addressing it. Man originally had his small tribe and tangible dangers that he and his ilk could address. But then tribes became cities, became empires, and the single man became more removed from his ability to deal with the 'higher' threats.

Peterson may have adopted whatever was suitable to help him deal with this disconnect - pick and choose spirituality, drugs, power etc. But he thinks, looking at the SJWs, that others may not choose his (comfortable Canadian middle class) path and lash out at these intangible yet ingrained threats (especially given marxism preaches conflict at its core).

Which then brings up Jesus Christ and his teaching to deny the will and serve God, fearing no man.

I think this ties into the Eco excerpt: that fear requires a surgeon's clear mind to unravel and control.

Blogger L' Aristokrato May 06, 2018 8:27 PM  

"... nightmares about dogs walking on their hind legs, butchering his cousin and offering flesh to him and other survivors of a nuclear holocaust..."

Hum... I'm not sure about the direction for this Hellraiser remake.

Blogger urbino May 06, 2018 8:45 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger ghostfromplanetspook May 06, 2018 8:48 PM  

I hope you and Mr.Wright have agreed to disagree on Peterson and Shapiro.

Blogger Patrick Charles May 06, 2018 8:48 PM  

More evidence Peterson is a gamma: he thinks PUA is all about manipulation and deception. I should have picked up on this when I first saw it (before Vox exposed him.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTbCEoXJnbg

Blogger VD May 06, 2018 8:54 PM  

I hope you and Mr.Wright have agreed to disagree on Peterson and Shapiro.

We disagree on many things; I would doubt they are even in the top 10. So what? I disagree with China Mieville on considerably more things and I wouldn't hesitate to publish him either.

Blogger Daniel May 06, 2018 8:55 PM  

Don't forget his definition for Life directly modifies his definition of Truth. By equivalence, Jordan Peterson asserts that Truth is whatever serves Suffering.

Blogger urbino May 06, 2018 8:58 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger VD May 06, 2018 9:00 PM  

Don't forget his definition for Life directly modifies his definition of Truth. By equivalence, Jordan Peterson asserts that Truth is whatever serves Suffering.

I think asking the average Peterson fan to accept a logical implication as a definition is not viable. They will simply insist "he never said that, you are envious and lying about his words!" That's why I left it off the actual definition list there.

Blogger Solaire Of Astora May 06, 2018 9:02 PM  

@14. Daniel

At this point I'm pretty sure Peterson subscribes to the Incoherence Theory of Truth.

Blogger Dave May 06, 2018 9:26 PM  

What I would give to have the late Dr. Jerry Pournelle's opinion on Peterson's supposed obsession with the Cold War. Peterson was born June 12, 1962. Prominent historians often claim the height of the Cold War occurred in the late 40's and early 50's with maximum tension peaking amid the Cuban Missile Crisis in September 1962. Peterson was still in diapers.

By the time Peterson was 10 years old the Vietnam War was winding down. He was a teenager in the mid to late 70's. But wait, what happened in the 80's? Oh yeah, Ronnie Raygun was elected President. The Cold War was back with a vengeance and just in time for Peterson we presume at university.

It's very innocuous and terribly convenient to claim an obsession with the Cold War but I don't buy it. I think it's another Peterson fabrication that he believes won't be questioned because world superpowers on the brink of mutually assured destruction.

Has anyone happened to check on his cousin?

Blogger ghostfromplanetspook May 06, 2018 9:41 PM  

VD wrote:I hope you and Mr.Wright have agreed to disagree on Peterson and Shapiro.

We disagree on many things; I would doubt they are even in the top 10. So what? I disagree with China Mieville on considerably more things and I wouldn't hesitate to publish him either.


Didnt mean anything by it its just funny to switch between your two blogs on occasion.

Blogger Win May 06, 2018 9:43 PM  

Youtube includes transcripts for most videos.
Click on the three horizontal dots to the right of share.
Click on open transcript and click on the three vertical dots and toggle timestamp.
Left click, pull down and save.
Presto complete transcript minus sentence breaks.

Blogger Mike Hertz May 06, 2018 9:56 PM  

Q predicted this.

Blogger Shamgar May 06, 2018 10:21 PM  

OT But Alex Jones going hard after little Ben: https://www.infowars.com/inside-ben-shapiros-twisted-plan-to-takeover-glenn-becks-collapsed-empire-with-texas-money/

Anonymous Anonymous May 06, 2018 10:29 PM  

Dave wrote:It's very innocuous and terribly convenient to claim an obsession with the Cold War but I don't buy it. I think it's another Peterson fabrication that he believes won't be questioned because world superpowers on the brink of mutually assured destruction.
This fabrication and/or pathology of his is actually central to his anti-White dogma.

One of Peterson's main arguments for why humans (specifically, White people) must reject the instinct of "tribalism" is because we now have nuclear weapons, and tribal conflict could lead to global thermonuclear war.

In fact, he stated that he had a prophetic dream regarding this (apparently it's the dogs serving human flesh dream described above -- what the actual fuck) and it's why he's on a divine mission to convince us all to adopt his ideology of "radical individualism" (his words).

What's clear however is that his pleas for rejecting tribalism are aimed squarely at White European people only.

https://youtu.be/KRCJAqjAJ9I

@40 minutes:
>"That's celebrated on the radical right, if we're going to devolve into tribalism we'll triumphantly herald our past accomplishments and unite under the flag of our race and blood. But we know what happens when that happens, it's not pretty... I see no alternative than radical individualism."

Blogger bob kek mando - ( your mom always did like me best ) May 06, 2018 10:46 PM  

if these other transcription methods don't pan out, i'd be interested in doing one.



18. Dave May 06, 2018 9:26 PM
It's very innocuous and terribly convenient to claim an obsession with the Cold War but I don't buy it.


Jordan is a very heavily fixated Russophile. he didn't merely name his daughter in honor of Gorbachev ( for saving the world from Ronnie Raygun ), he so indoctrinated her into his Russophilia that she found herself a Russian emigre in Canada and married him and has children by him.

don't misunderestimate the ability of an Hysterical personality to blow things all out of proportion.

also, i was growing up in the seventies. we were still getting school drills and safety films about sheltering under our desks in case of nuclear war.

you can't really over state the ( purported ) Leftist "panic" about Global Thermonuclear War and Mutually Assured Destruction.

what exposes the supposed Leftist panic as a fraud though, is that they never demanded that Russia disarm. they only ever accused the US of antagonizing the situation and they only ever demanded the US disarm.

that's how you know they were Lying.

this doesn't mean that Jordan didn't fall for the Lie. he was taught from the youngest age that he could be wiped off the face of the planet at any moment ... by those nutty American warmongers to the South.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 06, 2018 10:54 PM  

bob kek mando - ( your mom always did like me best ) wrote:also, i was growing up in the seventies. we were still getting school drills and safety films about sheltering under our desks in case of nuclear war.

Me, too. None of the kids I knew ever took it seriously, probably because our parents didn't. After all, our parents had seen the real danger in the '50s and '60s, and were pretty relaxed about the lower tensions of the '70s.

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira May 06, 2018 10:58 PM  

Peterson is satanic. That's why he made that painting. The man needs a priest, not a book deal.

Blogger Gapeseed May 06, 2018 11:06 PM  

I read 12 Rules recently, and my take on JP is that he is seeking truth and may well - over time - wander over to Christianity as the logical conclusion of his musings.

Peterson is to be commended for speaking out on gender pronouns. Incredibly, Canada has morphed into something approaching totalitarianism for free speech, and his position (as a university professor, no less) took some considerable courage. And it did take courage - he could not have known his job would be safe or that he would (for now) escape legal sanction for standing up to the Rainbow Maple Bullies. As such, the talk about him being a Luciferian Gamma strikes me as incredibly uncharitable. Ye shall know them by their fruit, and his speaking truth to power was evidence of a raw Christian instinct.

I understand his heterodoxy but am unwilling to throw a potential ally to the wolves.

Anonymous Anonymous May 06, 2018 11:11 PM  

bob kek mando - ( your mom always did like me best ) wrote:Jordan is a very heavily fixated Russophile.
He has huge paintings of Lenin and Trotsky hanging in his house:

https://i0.wp.com/www.mediumdigital.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/download.jpeg?resize=1024%2C683

https://www.sott.net/image/s18/362700/full/Tucker_Inset1_580x387.jpg

Notice anything about that first image?

Blogger OGRE May 06, 2018 11:18 PM  

Interesting. I've never read Eco, but from that passage it looks like hes expanding on C.S.Pierce's semiotics. Which coincidentally enough is the same Pierce who began the Pragmatism school, which is where JP was drawing a lot of his ideas regarding truth in the Harris debate.

Blogger Dave May 06, 2018 11:26 PM  

In 1959, 64 percent of Americans surveyed by Gallup listed nuclear war as the most dire problem facing the country; by 1965 the number dropped to 16 percent.

@Bob and Ominous

Dayum, your schools were still doing duck and cover in the 70's? Now that's what you call being stuck in the past. The Federal Civil Defense Administration had already been merged and swallowed up by 1958.
---

I thought about the suicidal and murderous preparation of that war every minute of every day, from the moment I woke up until the second I went to bed.

Nope, still not buying it.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 06, 2018 11:40 PM  

The nuclear war threat was and is so overblown. I can't even remember the last time I nuked someone on Civilization.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 06, 2018 11:41 PM  

"Don't forget his definition for Life directly modifies his definition of Truth. By equivalence, Jordan Peterson asserts that Truth is whatever serves Suffering."

Oh, but you stopped too soon!

Remember his definition of Evil? It's whatever intentionally causes suffering.

Therefore to intentionally promote or serve truth is to be evil by his philosophy.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 06, 2018 11:42 PM  

Unnecessary suffering, Azure. Don't forget that part.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 06, 2018 11:46 PM  

Dave wrote:Dayum, your schools were still doing duck and cover in the 70's? Now that's what you call being stuck in the past.

Now that I think about it, the last duck-and-cover that I can remember was '69, before we moved to Alaska. They weren't doing it in the BIA school in Unalaklete in '70.

Blogger Starboard May 07, 2018 12:11 AM  

Every time I read "unnecessary suffering," I have to wonder whose definition of "unnecessary" we are using.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 07, 2018 12:15 AM  

That's the catch.

Blogger bob kek mando - ( your mom always did like me best ) May 07, 2018 12:17 AM  

30. Dave May 06, 2018 11:26 PM
Dayum, your schools were still doing duck and cover in the 70's?


*shrugs*

we regularly saw films ( and i do mean FILM ) that were either created in the 50s and 60s or included footage from that era.

heck, i did driver's ed in ... 83? and i think one of the safety films ( you know, with the bodies and crash scenes and everything ) was from the late 1960s still.



25. Ominous Cowherd May 06, 2018 10:54 PM
None of the kids I knew ever took it seriously


same here.

however, that was still an indication of the way Leftists were behaving in public. and Jordan was raised by Canadian Leftists.

and i could easily see an adolescent Jordan ( who's father was also a depressive ) taking all this stuff that his parents are saying seriously.

Blogger Getsu May 07, 2018 12:21 AM  

Patrick Charles wrote:
More evidence Peterson is a gamma: he thinks PUA is all about manipulation and deception. I should have picked up on this when I first saw it (before Vox exposed him.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTbCEoXJnbg


Thanks for the link.

The last two minutes of that video confirm both his adherence to the (In)Coherence Theory of Truth and that he's a gamma.

An example of a true statement -- e.g., that Alice is ugly -- cannot be true because it leads to Alice's unnecessary suffering by being told that she's ugly. It doesn't matter whether she really is ugly or not.

Emotions take precedence over truth, and the word "truth" is redefined on that basis.

Rather than countering SJWs, I think Peterson will do them a great favour if he convinces other people of this philosophy.

Blogger Dave May 07, 2018 12:43 AM  

@Bob heck, i did driver's ed in ... 83? and i think one of the safety films ( you know, with the bodies and crash scenes and everything ) was from the late 1960s still.

Aha, driver's ed...me and two other kids in a Dodge K-car that had the extra brake pedal for the instructor. Each of us drove for 1/2 hour M-F for six weeks straight. Back then if you completed driver's ed you could get your license when you were 14 1/2.

Blogger Resident Moron™ May 07, 2018 12:46 AM  

OT:

but the BBC is reporting that black science fiction (“afrofuturism”) cannot be ignored.

I think they’re lying about other things, too.

Blogger Were-Puppy May 07, 2018 12:56 AM  

If you find yourself snorkling in the couch and painting evil images of Jesus being crucified, you might be possessed.

Anonymous Anonymous May 07, 2018 12:56 AM  

"it would be evil to do anything except accept the wife's narrative and behave accordingly."

My ex thought as much

Blogger Unknown May 07, 2018 12:57 AM  

Jordan Peterson is exactly what he claims to have rejected - "the intellectual, tweed-wearing middle-class socialist", he was entrenched in the Canadian West's social-democratic political party.
Jordan Peterson's childhood was directly supervised and influenced ny women.
He was hand spooned all the socialist approved writings in his early developmental life by the mother of current leader of the Alberta New Democratic Party and Premier of Alberta Rachel Notley. He claimed to have been plagued by 20th century European totalitarianism and apocalyptic nightmares about the escalation of the nuclear arms race.

Anonymous Anonymous May 07, 2018 1:08 AM  

I do have some pity for baby boomers who grew up living in fear of WWIII. They were deliberately and systematically lied to by the MIC, they were skilfully propagandised, they were carefully taught to be afraid. The "duck and cover" was twisted genius - even a kid would know that hiding under your schooldesk will do jack shit against a nuke.

JP's apocalyptic dreams were planted by a quite real conspiracy whose goal was (and is) to get very rich making and selling ever more bombs.

Blogger Rocklea Marina May 07, 2018 1:14 AM  

One wonders if the Alt-Lite can feel the ground, shifting underneath them.

Blogger Don't Call Me Len May 07, 2018 1:58 AM  

So he's a cut-rate Mapplethorpe too? There's no lame modern "genius" he doesn't steal from, is there?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 07, 2018 1:58 AM  

"Unnecessary suffering, Azure."

The option of suicide makes the suffering of life unnecessary.

Therefore, not only is truth evil, but so is life, according to JP.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 07, 2018 1:59 AM  

No wondering he has that instinctive nihilism-thought taboo. If he didn't, he'd be dead.

Blogger Miguel May 07, 2018 2:07 AM  

Wow. Disturbed mind in deed. I would not be surprised if one day he admits to have been molested.

Blogger The CronoLink May 07, 2018 2:08 AM  

OT: I was watching your JP pills periscope from 3 days ago, and kept wondering: "Is that @rooshv247 guy really roosh?"

I went to twitter and doesn't seem so; that rooshv247 seems like a JP shill (did he accused you of setting up a false flag or something in that periscope?) but in this tweet from 7 days ago he says he's suspicious of JP increasingly using more sjw language.

https://twitter.com/rooshv/status/990951358080716800

Blogger urbino May 07, 2018 2:11 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger David Baker May 07, 2018 2:29 AM  

I'm two weeks younger than JBP. I certainly grew up aware of the possibility of "the balloon going up" but perhaps my father being in the V force sitting in his aeroplane ready for dispersal several days a week was, bizarrely, a calming influence.
The thing that occurs to me when watching JBP is his histrionic thespianism. He reminds me of Stefan Moly when he goes full Withnail.
For those of us raised by stoic fathers (and mothers) this appears insincere and self indulgent but I imagine it is catnip for the soul for the lonely sons of apathy.

Blogger tublecane May 07, 2018 3:28 AM  

In a lecture I was watching ostensibly about Maps of Meaning but actually just rambling, along with bringing up the Holocaust and Cold War Peterson digresses on the Rape of Nanking. He can't resist mentioning that Iris Chang, author of a book on the subject, killed herself. It was something like the Yellow King, I suppose: study this subject and you'll go mad and put a shotgun in your mouth.

The man is obsessed with megadeath and Tragedy History, and repeatedly alludes to suicide.

Blogger tublecane May 07, 2018 3:37 AM  

@53- I should add it's not at all clear without reference to his biography why Peterson is so macabre. He starts out the lecture on the broadest themes of psychology and philosophy, then suddenly he's talking about how close the human race is to extinction.

Why? I dunno. That's just what he thinks about, I suppose.

A professor in college once in the middle of a lecture paused to apologize for his allusions and metaphors being so often dark and fiendish. The poster hanging on the back wall was a depiction of hell, he pointed out. If it had been a heavenly image, maybe he'd have been referencing angels and such.

Peterson can't use that excuse.

Blogger Scott C May 07, 2018 3:50 AM  

Vox, you should write a book exposing Peterson.

Blogger tublecane May 07, 2018 3:59 AM  

@23- "But we know what happens when that happens..." Ha, ha, ha. The Brown Scare.

If white people notice they're white, eventually they'll be gassing people. If we notice race at all, eventually we'll gas people. If we develop comradery and wear snappy uniforms, eventually we'll gas people.

This is boilerplate liberal college professor stuff. Some add in even more nonsense, like if you have religion or even just believe in God, eventually you'll gas people. If you put any social restrictions on sexual release--except those deriving from feminine whim--eventually you'll gas people. If you believe in parental authority, eventually you'll gas people.

If Peterson is unique, it's because he doesn't go in for that sort of nonsense. And he adds the Black Book of Communism on top of the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. But he's about the same on the Cold War besides that. Just a couple rival gangs of jingoists playing with dangerous toys.

I don't know if his paranoia was real or constructed after the fact. He's certainly capable of creating his own little height of Cold War peril inside his head. And being a Boomer, he was heavily influenced by things like Hollywood and their Day After propaganda.

Blogger tublecane May 07, 2018 4:12 AM  

@44- They should have tried living in the Midwest. Both of my Boomer parents informed me they never did Duck and Cover, and did not live in fear of nukes.

This was in the People's Republic of Minnesota, to boot.

Blogger Bogey May 07, 2018 4:29 AM  

I did not know what it meant, however, or why I had painted it. Where in the world had it come from?

It's a scene from Lair of the White Worm.

Blogger Matiss Zarkevics May 07, 2018 4:40 AM  

I don't buy these dreams of his for a second. It sounds like something a mentally ill loser would make up in order to make themselves feel special.

Blogger David Baker May 07, 2018 5:04 AM  

It's hard to come up with somewhere less likely to be decimated by a 70s nuclear exchange than Fairview,Alberta. As opposed to Lincolnshire for instance... or Wildenrath or Gutersloch..
Over active imagination or hypersensitivity?
His parents and siblings may bear some study?

Blogger Mr. Deficient May 07, 2018 6:10 AM  

To be fair, Molyneux has said something like "Young people think they are justified in being afraid but nothing in the modern day compares to the fear we had of global nuclear war. Alot of these criticisms of JBP are true but kind of irrelevant. Although the dog dream is just too fucking weird.

I honestly think the most important position of his to attack is his belief in religion's evolution, especially the part where he believes that humans have essentially the same mode of being as we all live out the hero myth. Hallpike points out for example the complete lack of a chimp like dominance hierarchy in hunter-gatherer tribes.

Blogger Patrikbc May 07, 2018 6:15 AM  

If this is consistently the kind of stuff he writes about, I’m surprised he’s doing so well. That’s some weird stuff, like “house of 1000 corpses” weird. Hope he doesn’t sleepwalk.

Anonymous Anonymous May 07, 2018 7:53 AM  

For quick transcripts, there are tools to download youtube subtitles.

bob kek mando - ( your mom always did like me best ) wrote:
what exposes the supposed Leftist panic as a fraud though, is that they never demanded that Russia disarm. they only ever accused the US of antagonizing the situation and they only ever demanded the US disarm. that's how you know they were Lying.


No, that's how you know they're leftists. They want you to surrender your guns and lie down in front of the invaders. They were doing it then, and they are still doing the same now, it is simply their nature.

Which brings us to Anonymous Conservative. When Peterson says the truth is whatever helps you stay alive, I'm sure Anonymous Conservative would rephrase that as "the truth is whatever soothes the amygdala of the narcissist". Because to a narcissist, facing the Truthy Truth (ie, outside of his gamma delusion bubble) is death.


Blogger JAU May 07, 2018 8:49 AM  

Re: Research request, Youtube allows you to pull the transcript of any video with closed captions. (Most of Peterson's have them.)

https://ccm.net/faq/40644-how-to-get-the-transcript-of-a-youtube-video

Blogger Dangeresque May 07, 2018 9:59 AM  

"The wife looks out the window and says with a preoccupied air, “Honey, there’s a man in the garden.” The husband takes a look and says, “No, honey, that’s not a man.” The husband’s reaction certainly violates a pragmatic rule because it provides less information than the situation calls for, since denying the presence of a man could on the one hand suggest that what is there is a child or a cat, while on the other hand it could also lead his wife to imagine something more dangerous (why not an invader from outer space?)."

According to Jordanetics, the rule that the husband is violating is telling his wife she's wrong.

Blogger Nathan May 07, 2018 11:15 AM  

Are we ever going to get a Peterson/VD debate?

Blogger VD May 07, 2018 12:26 PM  

Are we ever going to get a Peterson/VD debate?

Why are you asking me? You know I'm always game. Have you posted on his site or sent him an email?

Blogger Nathan May 07, 2018 12:36 PM  

I have not! Come to think of it, I've never actually visited his website.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants May 07, 2018 3:04 PM  

Brand new powder blue 1983 Buick Regal. NO extra brake for the driver's ed teacher, (football coach), and the first thing he'd say when you got in the car was, "take me to Wendy's." He let you drive until he got bored or you did something stupid. I always got in trouble because I couldn't back up through the orange cone maze without hitting at least one cone. Which was better than the other 3 girls in the car, at least. 😁

Honestly, when I read passages from DOCTOR Jordy B Peterson, I'm torn from whether I think they are fiction or this man's mind is really this disordered.
I'm not smart enough to know this answer, but I do know all his "dreams," read like they were written by a woman. They have the same feminine, fearful tone.

Blogger Andoc May 07, 2018 3:12 PM  

The fact Peterson's popularity has you acting like a woman scorned only because he keeps ignoring your increasingly deranged diatribes is fantastically hillarious.

Are you really the man who wrote two must-read books about Social Justice Warriors? Because from what I'm seeing you're the one acting like a true gamma who can't let go of an imaginary offense, though perhaps you don't notice it because you've resorted to preach to your choir in this echo chamber you've built here. But hell, you have every right to do it.

Oh well, I guess publicity of any kind is always good, even if you have to latch to someone else's notoriety to obtain it.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants May 07, 2018 3:13 PM  

I'm a woman & the same age as Moly, I don't understand this statement about the outsized "fear we had of global nuclear war," in regards to our generation.
Yes, you thought about it, but it wasn't dwelled upon, and I never heard other kids my age make much mention of it, or the fear of it.
Teens generally aren't fearful like that, or they werent, in the past. If anything, we joked about it and found it a silly concern.

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit May 07, 2018 5:53 PM  

Ah. Eco. Now that's genius writing clearly about difficult things. Mr. Peterson, by contrast writes (and speaks) in a carefully roundabout fashion, in order to get traditional precepts past the watchful dragons of the left.

The educational and mass media establishment, after all, are determined that a future generations must be raised like mushrooms.

At least now we know why the dragons were leashed.

Blogger Unknown May 09, 2018 4:58 AM  

Voxday, so glad I found you on youtube via Alex Jones. I'm loving the Jordan Peterson videos. while I appreciate some of his work, other areas of it bother me as a Christian, nationalist and paleoconservative. I'm glad you're dissecting him and most of what I've seen you analyze has been spot on in my opinion. Not sure if you're into MBTI, but it's a useful tool and Peterson is an INFJ. if you read into this type, you'll see it matches a lot of your insight on him. As for him not being inherently 'stable' and being chaotic, you are dead on. INFJs are inherently chaotic inside their brains. I believe he is on anti-depressants and there is a history of inflammatory disease and depression in his family. I'm not saying this to throw shade at him (I'm an INFJ also) but they often speak to the broken people and the suffering in very effective ways bc they are broken themselves. and Peterson, while obviously being brilliant, understands the need for rules and order to combat the 'chaos' in his head and daily live. this is spot on for an INFJ. so good observation without even knowing his situation! One of Peterson's highest pursuits is to alleviate suffering, and that can/will cause great blind spots in his intellectual analysis on a conscious or subconscious level. To him, having to say Jews are in positions of power bc they act out of in-group-preference, is like putting a target on their back in his mind. and he can't fathom doing that, so he will do loads of mental gymnastics to try to explain it otherwise. This is also why he denies tribalism. He sees it as evil. and believes we've 'evolved' past it. even though he clearly claims we haven't evolved past the need for gender, the family unit and religion. and even though data is readily available to show how we haven't evolved past tribalism and multiculturalism is a failure. in his mind, tribalism leads to evil and suffering, so he will do his mental gymnastics to try to deny it. A perfect example was the 2 hours debate he and Sam Harris did. He was not willing to concede Sam Harris's definition of truth, simply bc in his mind, the only truth worth acknowledging was one that was 'beneficial' for us, not one that was detrimental. In his mind, somewhat consciously and HUGELY subconsciously, truth isn't paramount, but lack of suffering is. So if there are uncomfortable truths that may contribute to suffering (in his mind) he will explain them away. He believes speaking on the truths of gender realism, need for family unit and religion will relieve suffering, which is why he is very data-centric and thorough in defense of them. But he is not believe acknowledging the reality of tribalism will alleviate suffering (but will create more of it), which is why he denies it.

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