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Friday, June 15, 2018

Delusion creates illusion

A comment thread at Bounding Into Comics about Alt★Hero #1 illustrates the core problem with tolerating gammas, even when one rides herd on them.
Considering how much of an asshole/sperg Vox Day is to everyone in his blog and his "my way or the highway" mentality, I'm surprised this isn't a massive disaster or that Vox didn't fire everybody midway through for not kissing his ass hard enough. That said, it seems this is fun and good enough, so I hope this does well and can keep going forward in the hands of other more capable people.
- Skullomaniac

Vox gets attacked constantly and doesn't tolerate it anymore. He is an excellent guy to work for, however, and allows a lot of creative leeway.
- David The Good

I have followed his blog for a couple of years now and I'm convinced he has a severe attitude problem with everyone who may dissent even 0.001% with him, and he often appears to demand complete obedience to his words.
- Skullomaniac

It's been an interesting process to watch. I started reading Vox Day's blog back in 2008 and the discussions were provocative and harsh at times, but they were also thoughtful and highly-intellectual. Stay on topic, but nothing was really off the table because it was by and large a self-policing community. No one was afraid to question anyone else, including the proprietor of the blog. It was still largely the same through the Sad Puppies situation. Then, as the Alt-Right started to become a thing and Vox Day became a figure within it, his blog readership increased very quickly and the community rapidly changed. When this happened, everything else changed with it, including the house rules and the attitude toward comments.
- Arcturus Rann
Notice the divorce between the guy who has followed the blog "for a couple of years now", the guy who has followed it for a long time and actually works with me, and the guy who has followed it for a decade.

Merely having to deal with gammas and the psychological trash they drag in with them has been sufficient to convince some casual observers that I am an oversensitive, incapable sperg who requires people to kiss my ass and doesn't allow any questioning of my opinion whatsoever. This, as those who work with me know, is almost the complete opposite of the truth; the most common criticism I receive from those who work with me is that I don't give them enough guidance and oversight.

Granted, I'm not given to much in the way of kumbaya and cuddles either, but if I have repeatedly erred, it has always been on the side of giving people excessive responsibility for which they were not truly ready.

Anyhow, being a game designer, I am putting on my design hat to address this problem. It's probably going to be based on letting the Dread Ilk decide who is, and who is not, allowed to comment here. What none of my critics realize is that I have actually been far more tolerant of the newcomers than most of the historical readership here prefers.

Labels: ,

220 Comments:

1 – 200 of 220 Newer› Newest»
Blogger James Dixon June 15, 2018 11:07 AM  

> I have followed his blog for a couple of years now and I'm convinced he has a severe attitude problem with everyone who may dissent even 0.001% with him, and he often appears to demand complete obedience to his words.
- Skullomaniac

> ...the most common criticism I receive from those who work with me is that I don't give them enough guidance and oversight.

Given what I've seen of your personality over the years, I can see how that would be the case.
He's flat out lying. Even now you're more tolerating of dissent than many places I've frequented over the years.

Blogger James Dixon June 15, 2018 11:08 AM  

Hmm. Cut an paste fail again. Oh well, I think the message came across in spite of it.

Blogger Cetera June 15, 2018 11:10 AM  

The people that can't figure out how to behave on this blog are those that are just too dumb to ever get it.

I've only been reading here for maybe 3 years, maybe a little less. I've disagreed with Vox here before too, publicly. There was minor back and forth. It was clear to me that the disagreement was less over what the facts were, and more of a disagreement about opinion.

I can certainly understand someone having a different opinion than myself. I'm certain not going to get all butthurt that the someone has a different opinion, and then berate him for it on his own yard. What kind of a jackwang does that? So, move on. This isn't my forum to spout my own opinion. We had a discussion. It was civil. We disagree on something. Not the end of the world, and won't be the only time.

Cheers, Vox, and thanks for putting up with most of us, and educating us at the same time.

Blogger Cetera June 15, 2018 11:11 AM  

I do wish there was an edit button, however. My typing could use some work...

Blogger David The Good June 15, 2018 11:18 AM  

Creative interactions tend to work like this:

DTG: "Hey Vox, I want to write a book about growing tropical plants in temperate areas via discovering and creating microclimates, using thermal mass, and-"

VD: "Fine, write it."

DTG: "Very good - half way done already. Did you can actually espalier a citrus tree to a south-facing wall and gain a complete USDA zone, at the very least? I did this experiment where-"

VD: cant talk. busy now. write your book

Blogger Dave June 15, 2018 11:19 AM  

I read Skull's comment the other day when you linked to Bounding into Comics. I thought of asking where he was during the recent Peterson controversy. I don't recall everyone kissing your ass over that one. Obviously Skull is given to hyperbole; a severe attitude problem with 0.001℅ dissent? I believe you stated the Dread Ilk started out more than 80℅ siding with Peterson when you initially began exposing his BS.

How about it Skull? Where you at?

Blogger Nate June 15, 2018 11:21 AM  

ya know... We've had alt-retard... who you tried to help and ended up having to ban. you've had the alpha game types... who you tried to help and have largely ended up having to ban. And you have the Jordan peterson fans... who you're trying to help... and will no doubt eventually end up having to ban.

You know of The Pale Horse was still around he would have already built the models, run the math, and nailed down the cyclical rate for this phenomenon and we would be making good solid predictions with graphs and charts and stuff.

we could be taking bets.

God I miss that guy.

Blogger Nate June 15, 2018 11:22 AM  

also... I mean damn Vox... you have spend literal decades trying to help the worst of the worst... and yet somehow... the whole world thinks you're an asshole.

Blogger DBSFF June 15, 2018 11:22 AM  

Honestly, you dismantling the detractors in the comments is half the fun, however annoying it may be.

Blogger Phelps June 15, 2018 11:23 AM  

Successful societies shun and outcast gammas for good reason.

Blogger Desdichado June 15, 2018 11:25 AM  

I haven't been reading 10 years, but I notice how many old-timer commenters who were obviously commenters already when I stumbled over during the early Sad Puppies era are no longer around very much anymore. It's probably pretty fair to say that the comments section has become a wasteland for most of them that they don't bother with anymore.

That, occasionally I miss Tiny Tim and Porky. The morons who used to post here were at least more entertaining than the current crop.

Blogger HoosierHillbilly June 15, 2018 11:26 AM  

This is going to get awful meta with the current immigration debate. Those who were here originally deciding who gets to stay and who doesn't...cue the screams of WHAT ABOUT MEEEEEE?

Time to begin our own social science experiments. The Effects of a Self-Selecting Populace upon Quality, Intelligence, and Order. Then we base the findings here and propose it to Congress. It's SCIENCE!

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 15, 2018 11:27 AM  

What none of my critics realize is that I have actually been far more tolerant of the newcomers than most of the historical readership here prefers.
Well, I'm still here, not banned yet, so can confirm.

Blogger Dave June 15, 2018 11:29 AM  

The Pale Horse

You disparage equines with this association.

Blogger wreckage June 15, 2018 11:30 AM  

Reader for a year and a bit. I've repeatedly disagreed with Vox and the worst he's done is be mildly sarcastic. Vox is a very challenging guy in his blog-persona and holds some seriously heterodox ideas. Even his long term readers and collaborators spend a fair bit of time either disagreeing with him or kinda wincing at his tendency to bump people.

But that's the whole point of reading here. There are plenty of places to get reasonable, centered, comfortable views and opinions. Vox is here to shake the hell out of you. And when he or the commentariat here comes around to your argument (or to an argument you're aligned with), it's a genuine victory; you KNOW they're not smiling and nodding to be polite.

Blogger Nate June 15, 2018 11:31 AM  

"You disparage equines with this association."

Dave... you don't know who I'm talking about.

Blogger SouthRon June 15, 2018 11:32 AM  

Having been here under various nyms before the 50,000 view mark, I've been surprised how long it took Anno Ruse others to get spammed. So, yes the Dread Ilk are likely to kick em to the curb faster.

Blogger Nate June 15, 2018 11:33 AM  

"That, occasionally I miss Tiny Tim and Porky. The morons who used to post here were at least more entertaining than the current crop."

ahh... but you missed out on the really good ones. There was a woman who called herself Morgan of the Lake who would troll here.. she really hated Bane and she would start posting rants at him.. but every time she did he would only respond with "MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

Blogger Quilp June 15, 2018 11:34 AM  

Banned by Box Day T Shirts.
Never underestimate the SJW's need to virtue signal.

Blogger Quilp June 15, 2018 11:35 AM  

grrr. I could understandably be banned for my typing alone. Apologies.
*Vox Day

Blogger Dave June 15, 2018 11:37 AM  

Nate, thought you were riffing on Pale male with his sketching hardware to do practical applications.

Disregard.

Blogger tuberman June 15, 2018 11:37 AM  

I had contempt for all the Thomas Friedman's of the Dismal Science, and was applying that to all Economics, the UofChicago School, the Austrian School, just all of them. Along came Dr.Keen, and I didn't see how he could be any different, without bothering to actually read him. VD, took me to task, and I then proceeded to read him. Found out I was wrong, there are exceptions, and he is a brilliant exception at that.

I'm still reading Dr. Keen, and he's come up with a great article on how deep in the parasite economic garbage Australia has fallen over the last 55 years.

Blogger Nate June 15, 2018 11:38 AM  

"Nate, thought you were riffing on Pale male with his sketching hardware to do practical applications."

no mate... old timer named Greg... used to comment under several names... one of which was Equus Pallidus

Blogger Dave June 15, 2018 11:42 AM  

David the Good, can you repeat Vox's response when you first told him you were writing a garden thriller?

Blogger Rabbi B June 15, 2018 11:42 AM  

It's probably going to be based on letting the Dread Ilk decide who is, and who is not, allowed to comment here.

Yessssssssssss!

The Ilk solution to the Gamma question.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 15, 2018 11:50 AM  

Rabbi B wrote:The Ilk solution to the Gamma question... involves stakes.

Blogger Matthew McDaniel June 15, 2018 11:54 AM  

I hope Vox keeps snidely around. He really is a good boy who dindu nuffin.

Blogger Joshua_D June 15, 2018 11:55 AM  

Let the purges begin.

Blogger Joshua_D June 15, 2018 11:56 AM  

Our solution will be final.

Blogger Heian-kyo Dreams June 15, 2018 11:57 AM  

Skullomaniac sounds like one of those people who's butthurt that everyone doesn't tolerate his incompetence.

Blogger Rabbi B June 15, 2018 11:57 AM  

We could start with yellow armbands with letter 'G'...

Blogger Joshua_D June 15, 2018 11:59 AM  

Yellow may be too kind.

Blogger Rabbi B June 15, 2018 12:00 PM  

The Dread Ilk Macht Frei!

Blogger Al K. Annossow June 15, 2018 12:01 PM  

But as, R.G. King, the great philosopher, social healer, and taxi driver said eons ago in 1992, "Can't we all just get along?"

Blogger Salt June 15, 2018 12:01 PM  

It's probably going to be based on letting the Dread Ilk decide who is, and who is not, allowed to comment here.

Makes me think of Trump's NUKE button exchange with Rocket Man, only Vox's says DREAD ILK.

Blogger phunktor June 15, 2018 12:04 PM  

v votes!!!!! DIE TAD!!!

Blogger RC June 15, 2018 12:04 PM  

no mate... old timer named Greg... used to comment under several names... one of which was Equus Pallidus

And even Greg was banned at one point if memory serves, though I can't recall why. What a rough end for him. Good man, though he never did send me his ballistics program. All forgiven.

Blogger Amos Bellomy June 15, 2018 12:07 PM  

Yeah, when it came to "God, Robot" Vox basically said "Here's a story if you want it, let me know ehen you're done, good luck."

I wouldn't have it any other way.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener June 15, 2018 12:10 PM  

@38 He also posted under the name Outlaw X didn't he?

Blogger Nate June 15, 2018 12:11 PM  

"Good man, though he never did send me his ballistics program."

JAC and I have it. it was called Ballistic Pro. it was absolutely fantastic back in the day. it was the only program we could find that actually matched up with the real world results we were getting.

Greg and his dad wrote it.

Blogger phunktor June 15, 2018 12:11 PM  

v votes!!!!! DIE TAD!!!

Blogger Nate June 15, 2018 12:14 PM  

yeah. Outlaw X. And he was banned for a bit. He was going though a hard time... he actually challenged Vox for a fight. It was pretty funny to be honest.

But as always.. Vox is a terrible Dark Lord. I mean the guy is incredibly forgiving. I mean what "banned" really means when Vox says it is "Go away for a while and come back when you can control yourself and act like an adult."


I can't tell you how many people I've seen banned... who several weeks or months later returned... behaved themselves... and were welcomed no questions asked.


Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener June 15, 2018 12:14 PM  

@41 If there are no rights restrictions on it, would you be willing to upload that to the Amazon cloud or Dropbox or something like that and post a link either here or on your blog? I would love to have that program too.

Blogger Doug Cranmer June 15, 2018 12:15 PM  

Well people like Donald Trump or Mad Jack Churchill with his claymore have notorious reputations for their bad attitudes yet who wouldn't wouldn't want the chance to work under them? Whether you end up getting fired or not.

Blogger Patrick Kelly June 15, 2018 12:18 PM  

Matthew McDaniel wrote:I hope Vox keeps snidely around. He really is a good boy who dindu nuffin.

Snidely doesn't gamma much, he's just an asshole.

Blogger VD June 15, 2018 12:19 PM  

Vox would rather write 20 posts about how it's HIS sandbox and he will NOT tolerate you playing in it than just fence off the goddamn sandbox.

Almost. I'd rather be patient and give people the chance to figure out how to play with others than simply kick them in the teeth the first time they fuck up.

Blog's been running for over a decade and you haven't figured out how to appoint your best people to keep out undesirables?

My best people have had the ability to delete commenters from the beginning. I have been holding them back all this time. No more. Events have proven the hardliners right and me wrong. Idiots like you are going to be shot on sight from now on.

For a guy who is constantly telling everyone how smart you are, you sure miss a lot of basic stuff.

I don't miss anything. I am considerably smarter than you are. You have never understood that despite my arrogance, I am patient, empathetic, and willing to give my intellectual inferiors a chance. I had hoped that people like you could learn to improve your behavior. But we now have years of experience demonstrating you can't. You're too proud and stubborn.

So there will be no more mercy. I am unleashing the VFM on the comments. Don't bother appealing to me. I am done with all of your kind.

Blogger Freeholder June 15, 2018 12:20 PM  

Heck, I lurked for years before even venturing an opinion on here because to be blunt. I still only comment occasionally. It is Vox's domain and his rules. Why people can not understand that I do not know.

Blogger Rabbi B June 15, 2018 12:23 PM  

Why people can not understand that I do not know.

Because for some, negative attention is better than no attention at all.

Blogger RC June 15, 2018 12:25 PM  

If there are no rights restrictions on it, would you be willing to upload that to the Amazon cloud or Dropbox or something like that and post a link either here or on your blog? I would love to have that program too.

Yes, that would still be interesting to review, but the Hornady 4ODF calculator has met this amateurs needs out to 1000, very nice, even good spin drift calculations.

Blogger Tars Tarkusz June 15, 2018 12:29 PM  

Nobody like Gamma behavior. You would think these guys would have figured it out by the time they are 30!

I've been reading daily for about 2.5 years, but very rarely comment. It's just not that often that I have something to say that actually adds to the discussion.

Nobody reads Vox's blog because they just desperately want to know my opinion on X. I don't read it just so I can tell Vox how wrong he is about X.

Blogger rws June 15, 2018 12:31 PM  

I've only been here since Bane and MeSo waded ashore on the West Coast to kick ass and chew bubble gum.

If I promise to stop peeing on the carpet every now and then I hope to be allowed to stay. Quietly. In the corner. Where I belong.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 15, 2018 12:32 PM  

Patrick Kelly wrote:Snidely doesn't gamma much, he's just an asshole.
Thank you for the compliment.

Blogger David The Good June 15, 2018 12:33 PM  

"Dave wrote:David the Good, can you repeat Vox's response when you first told him you were writing a garden thriller?"

I think it was something profoundly emotional. Like "okay."

Later were talking about the book as I was wrapping up the first draft and he suggested making all the murders somehow garden-related. "Don't let a guy get shot with a gun. Instead, have him killed with a carrot or something."

Good idea.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 15, 2018 12:35 PM  

If Skullomaniac weren't a Gamma failure, he'd note the many times several of the Dead Ilk have gone directly at Vox on something like the Alt-Retards, to give a good example. Vox did not ban me, Nate, or the other Dread Ilk who disagreed with him. As many times as Vox has told me I'm stupid, clueless, whatever, I should have been banned by now as well. In truth, Vox is just jealous of my swagger and my gangster talk.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) June 15, 2018 12:36 PM  

Does this mean the return of halo scan

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 15, 2018 12:37 PM  

It means the return of well deserved beatings, lovingly (or not) administered by The Dread Ilk.

Blogger Lance E June 15, 2018 12:38 PM  

It's like a little slice of immivasion in blog comment form. Weaken the social trust, and everybody becomes more aloof and aggressive, even the people who used to get along.

Sounds like a lot of what makes these people so angry is simply intolerance of authority. They think that merely by showing up, they're entitled to a vote in how things are run. I wonder why they'd think that...

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) June 15, 2018 12:39 PM  

Vox is just jealous of my swagger and my gangster talk.

And your dual akimbo super sigma helicopter zip lining

Blogger Edward Isaacs June 15, 2018 12:39 PM  

Sounds like IQ gap at work... What are actually huge and fundamental disagreements Skull lacks the ability to perceive as anything more substantial than a "0.001%" difference. Or else he can't see past single statements to their context or place in an ongoing pattern of behavior.

It's interesting that Vox's critics always, always, always assume or assert things about his character or motives... They literally lack the capacity to imagine, for instance, that there might be objective reasons for prohibiting certain posting styles which have nothing to do with a personal subjective penchant for having your ass kissed... Everything is and must be rooted in an emotion, because we are all nihilists anyway and don't believe in anything except pleasure, and exercise no virtues except inoffensiveness...

After so many years, Vox deserves a better class of critic tbh.

Blogger 1101doc June 15, 2018 12:41 PM  

I rarely comment here because I usually don't have anything that can add positively to the conversation. That should be the reason for a comment. This is a place where real ideas are discussed seriously. If you're not willing to do that go back to Facebook.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 15, 2018 12:42 PM  

Josh,

Vox was so jealous of my dual wielding helicopter akimbo action that he banned my alter ego Arnold Sigmanegger. Low energy, SAD!

Blogger One Deplorable DT June 15, 2018 12:49 PM  

I've been reading this blog and its comments for around 8 years now. I would call myself a regular reader, but I'm pretty sure I would not be considered part of 'The Dread Ilk' since I've never been through an initiation that involved SJW skulls. I used to comment more often, but haven't lately due to time constraints. Though I still at least skim the comments on most posts.

For what it's worth...

* Sometimes I think Vox is too quick to dismiss a fair critique. Or too harsh with someone who appears to be honest in their critique, even though they may be wrong. Of course this has to be considered in light of the fact that Vox is A) a very busy man, and B) constantly under attack from people who are dishonest in their critiques.

* Most of the time I think Vox is quite fair with those of us who follow and comment on his blog. There have been lively debates with plenty of disagreement. I don't think I've ever seen Vox drop a ban hammer simply because of an honest disagreement that focused on the subject and not on him personally.

* All of the time I am impressed with how generous Vox is with his time when it comes to his readers and their comments. I'll be skimming comment 89 and realize Vox is responding in 90 and thinking "how in the hell did he find time to read all these comments and then respond to some of them???"

* All of the time I am convinced Vox is seeking to discover and communicate truth. Vox has never done something that reeks of hypocrisy or of an ulterior motive. I don't always agree with Vox. But I read this blog every day because agree or disagree, I'm forced to think and to learn. And I know I'm reading posts from a man who is honest, who will accept truth no matter how uncomfortable it may be.

It seems pretty simple really: don't attack someone, especially the host, just because you disagree with them. Stick to the topic. Don't overreact if your argument has a hole and Vox or someone else shoots a torpedo through it. It's not personal, it's a chance to learn.

Blogger Matthew June 15, 2018 12:50 PM  

IT'S HAPPENING

:ronpaulgif:

Blogger BassmanCO June 15, 2018 12:57 PM  

Also, not noticed by casual readers, is how Vox interacts personally. He has always replied to emails, and then always cordially, not matter how inane my questions. Most popular sites you would be lucky to get a form reply, let alone personal advice. I have had to refrain from sending in more questions because I do not want to be one of those needy, whiny gammas.

I also tend not to reply much as either someone else has already voiced what I was thinking or in reading all the comments, I was trying to form an opinion based on facts and not emotional reaction.

Blogger One Deplorable DT June 15, 2018 12:59 PM  

@50 - Nobody like Gamma behavior. You would think these guys would have figured it out by the time they are 30!

Both popular culture and online communities are infested with gamma behavior. Monkey see, monkey do. That's why they don't figure it out by 30, if ever.

The left in particular is obsessed with credentials, snark, and personal attacks. "Do you have a physics degree? Huh? DO YOU???" would be considered a valid counterpoint by most Hillary voters.

Blogger heidi June 15, 2018 1:00 PM  

Make comments great again. I've only been here since 2006 so I'm not quite an expert but this seems like a fantastic idea.

I have it on good authority I can call out idiots.

Idiots.

Blogger Wild Ape June 15, 2018 1:04 PM  

@47---I was the same way, 18 months before I made my first post. Vox is very tolerant of differing opinions but not of the rude mutants who blast whatever vile insult that flys off their keyboard. That is the way it should be. Show respect!
I have changed a lot in reading since reading the blog. Sometimes he has said things that fill me with rage---for instance when he mocks "cuckservatives". Down the road it sinks in what he says and after some introspection I realized that I was hard right yet still clinging to a faulty philosophy in parts. I went from Sad Puppy to Rabid, and from conservative to hard right. I've even chucked my old religion and returned to Christianity. I realized all along that I was a Christian in a Churchian synod and was rebelling against churchian thought, not Christianity itself. I don't agree with Vox on everything but I do listen and think about what he says. Most of what he says sticks. I've also learned a lot from the other posters here but the heart, soul, and core of this blog is Vox.

Blogger Matthew June 15, 2018 1:04 PM  

To the lost sheep of the OG Dread Ilk,

Email me or Nate or Difster if you're interested in getting involved.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 15, 2018 1:09 PM  

Matthew,

I want to get involved.

Blogger Matthew June 15, 2018 1:10 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:I want to get involved.

But can you follow instructions?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 15, 2018 1:14 PM  

Depends on the instructions

Blogger Rabbi B June 15, 2018 1:14 PM  

@70 Matthew

WAT? A jarhead not follow instructions?!?!? Say it ain't so ....

Blogger Lovekraft June 15, 2018 1:14 PM  

I suspect that their frustration is that VD hasn't crossed any lines, but is maintaining and growing his base of supporters.

The left has lost the narrative. Most are quasi-authoritarian fascists/communists that require victimization to prop up their rackets. We don't take the bait and in fact expose them consistently.

Blogger Nate June 15, 2018 1:15 PM  

We will make Robspierre look thoughtful and merciful

Blogger Lovekraft June 15, 2018 1:17 PM  

If you want to see how intolerant the left is, visit reddit and post something that doesn't tow the SJW line.

I've been banned from upwards of 20 subs already and, if you know me, I know how to 'keep it clean' therefore the bans are about the left's inability to engage in real debate/consider dissenting opinion.

Blogger Beau June 15, 2018 1:19 PM  

OT

Shakaira's Friend, "What are you doing Friday night?"

Shakaira: "I'm working the street corner on 5th and Main. Come see me."

Later that evening Skaraira's friend drove up and saw her smiling holding up a sign, Honk if you love Jesus.

Shakaira's Friend: You got me.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 15, 2018 1:21 PM  

"We will make Robespierre look thoughtful and merciful"

Introspective, even.

Blogger horsewithnonick June 15, 2018 1:22 PM  

Oh, God, yes!

Blogger Jon D. June 15, 2018 1:27 PM  

I can confirm that working with Vox is a joy on the creative freedom end. When you're hired to write, be an artist, or whatever, he knows your expertise is what it is and lets you do your thing. There's no micro-managing, no undue hardness, all feedback makes sense and has purpose. It's a business pure and simple, and that's refreshing.

There's a kind of person on the internet who really likes to make snap judgements about someone's character, I've seen it a lot both in sci-fi and comics. They start with an assumption that X person is bad because of whatever reason, and then go around talking about those character qualities without ever trying to treat their target as human.

I was for a long time on the other side of the fence because of this exact treatment of Vox, people whisper about him like he's Voldemort or something and so all you hear is how bad he is in certain circles, rarely with any specifics other than name calling. Now I'm the type of person who verifies things for myself, so I came here and emailed Vox actually with a question about church. He wrote back, preserved my anonymity at the time when I was a little scared of getting associated, and was completely cordial even though I wasn't offering him anything other than email correspondence. How you treat others who can't do anything for you is a testament to one's character in a positive way. This kind of comment by the guy on the bounding page is complete b.s.

Blogger Dave June 15, 2018 1:34 PM  

@DTG Later were talking about the book as I was wrapping up the first draft and he suggested making all the murders somehow garden-related. "Don't let a guy get shot with a gun. Instead, have him killed with a carrot or something."

That's Editor of the Year stuff right there. I'm surprised Vox has never tried to get you to write high fantasy based on various breeds of gardeners.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 15, 2018 1:35 PM  

Carrots are really good for night vision, and with ranch.

Blogger horsewithnonick June 15, 2018 1:36 PM  

Those who have followed this blog long enough have seen Vox actually modify his philosophy as circumstances changed, and have followed the same logic, if somewhat more slowly. "Christian libertarian" sounds quaint and innocent now, and the road from there to here appears in hindsight to have been clearly marked, but it was tough to travel at the time.

Blogger horsewithnonick June 15, 2018 1:37 PM  

Oh Dave, what in heaven's name have you *done*?

Blogger The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey June 15, 2018 1:38 PM  

10 follower of Vox here, under various nommes de guerre. Vox is very fair and reasonable. Whenever I see somebody calling Vox names, I automatically know they don't what they are talking about, and can be safely ignored.

Blogger The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey June 15, 2018 1:39 PM  

gah meant "10 year follower of Vox here"

Blogger Al K. Annossow June 15, 2018 1:41 PM  

For the sake of others, Vox has branched out beyond beyond his preferred traditional, word-oriented media into video, comics, and perhaps movies. Why the hell shouldn't he unapologetically manage his blog the why he wants. Seems fair to me.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 15, 2018 1:41 PM  

That's right, Ken Ramsey. We are watching you. The Dread Ilk Cheka is always watching.

Blogger Dave June 15, 2018 1:45 PM  

@Mother, you know everything is good with ranch.

@DTG did you consider potato guns? Not organic enough?

Blogger VD June 15, 2018 1:46 PM  

Depends on the instructions.

That's an indirect way to say "no".

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 15, 2018 1:47 PM  

Matthew and I have a special understanding

Blogger SB Wright June 15, 2018 1:48 PM  

I've been reading the blog for at least 7 years, but not daily until the last 2 or so. Never commented until that time, like others, I didn't have anything to say that would add to the conversation. I had no idea of how tolerant Vox is of commentors until I followed the comments "live" and saw the sperg text walls, monomania, or butthurt posting that was later deleted. Previous to that I would only see Vox's final response and dismissal/ban and wonder if Vox had a really short temper or inability to deal with contrary voices. After seeing it live for a short time, I realized Vox is what a lot of others here have said: way more patient than I would be in his place.

The point being, if you haven't seen the derailment attempts or other gamma behavior mucking up the comment threads over and over, Vox might look a bit thin-skinned. That's the charitable interpretation: the person making the complaint hasn't seen how long Vox's been dealing with this same nonsense. The other interpretation: the critic is a gamma projecting his own faults onto our host. He can't face criticism, or respond to it appropriately, and would like nothing better than for any challenge to him to be dismissed by an awesome salvo of his passive-snark, its glittering brilliance reflecting off his secret crown for all to see, before he ban hammers the offender into internet exile. But other people who ask him not to be a gamma jerk, warn him he's being a gamma jerk, and then finally ban him for refusing to stop being a gamma jerk, are the bad ones.

TL;DR--Nate called out this cog-dis in the "Gammas are not welcome here" thread.

Blogger artensoll June 15, 2018 2:04 PM  

I am a middle-aged English lady and, compared to Vox, a mid-wit at best. I've been reading him daily since discovering him via Milo about 18 months ago. I actually laugh out loud at least once a day reading his posts and the comments. This is rare for me and hurts my face.

I back his endeavours because I believe in him and I have nothing else to contribute. Mostly I am grateful for the knowledge that I am not even close to being the smartest one in the room.

Vox Day and the Ilk are very much appreciated in this tiny bit of my island.

My two pennies, for what it's worth.

Thank you.

Blogger Cluebat Vanexodar June 15, 2018 2:11 PM  

Hope I don't lose my commenting privileges.

Blogger Rabbi B June 15, 2018 2:12 PM  

Hope I don't lose my commenting privileges.

It takes a special, unenviable talent that few possess.

Blogger The Deuce June 15, 2018 2:12 PM  

I agree with the second commentator. I've been reading VP for about the same amount of time (Started in 2007 iirc. My first comment was making fun of Beelzebub for his social justice cultism a few months before he got banned, so whenever that was). The recent shifts have definitely reduced the general quality of the discussion much more than any of the blog's major past phases that I was here for. I think a lot of it has to do with alt-retards who have most of the gamma stupidity of a proto-SJW like Beelzebub but none of the entertainment value.

As far as suggestions, maybe you could have some kind of registration system for the blog, and then limit the allowed posting rate for newcomers as the Ilk decides on their fate. And maybe you could use the same mechanism as a way to put commenters who's behavior is starting to wear out their welcome in the dog house for a while, prior to banning them if they don't improve.

Blogger S. Misanthrope June 15, 2018 2:13 PM  

Vox is fair and generous. He also connects people in a way few are able to do and that no one who is truly arrogant or hauty can do. Few have any idea how much of what exists out there is thanks to Vox.

Blogger The Kurgan June 15, 2018 2:17 PM  

Nate:
also... I mean damn Vox... you have spend literal decades trying to help the worst of the worst... and yet somehow... the whole world thinks you're an asshole.


IKR?? Vox is really a bit like Ghandi but less racist and better dressed.
We must try to persuade him that he needs MOAR skulls for his sea....

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 15, 2018 2:18 PM  

SB Wright wrote:The other interpretation: the critic is a gamma projecting his own faults onto our host.
More likely, he or one of his friends was banned here. Since it can't be their won damn fault, Vox must be thin-skinned

Blogger Pierre Truc June 15, 2018 2:19 PM  

> I have followed his blog for a couple of years now and I'm convinced he has a severe attitude problem with everyone who may dissent even 0.001% with him

Americans: Bomb the shit out of the Arabs? No problem. But ruffle the feelings of someone online? Oh my, everyone instantly loses their shit!

Personally I find VD to be rather nice, patient and mild-mannered, especially in video. No, I'm not sticking my tongue up your butt. That's really what I think.

Anyway. I owned a French forum with several hundreds thousands members, and we had our share of drama queens and gammas of course. Banning was very common! (unless the stuff made us laugh, of course). One of my fave features was making the Mod Team able to stick a picture on posts. Skullomaniac's post would no doubt have earned the "are you on your period?" achievement (yes, the image did include a tampon, as you can imagine).

Blogger Chiva June 15, 2018 2:21 PM  

"It takes a special, unenviable talent that few possess."

That is good to know. If I posted a squishy gamma post I would rather be lovingly smacked upside the head than being banned.

Blogger Dave June 15, 2018 2:23 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 15, 2018 2:27 PM  

> I have followed his blog for a couple of years now and I'm convinced he has a severe attitude problem with everyone who may dissent even 0.001% with him, and he often appears to demand complete obedience to his words.
> - Skullomaniac


Uh.... yeah. Vox is the ONLY blogger I've seen who actually gives people a warning before banning them, and then when he does, spells out exactly why, and includes the exact quote which was the straw the broke the camel's back.

Skullomaniac is an abject liar.

Blogger Megamerc June 15, 2018 2:32 PM  

It's interesting to see that a lot of the Dread Ilk don't have much interest in telling everyone how long they've been reading and commenting here. They know regular readers know who they are, and don't care either way if you know or not. I do miss seeing the old discussions from five years ago though. The demographics and dynamics have changed quite a bit.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 15, 2018 2:33 PM  

"I can't tell you how many people I've seen banned... who several weeks or months later returned... behaved themselves... and were welcomed no questions asked."

I was banned for about five minutes once. Can confirm that as soon as you can get over yourself everything is cool.

"Because for some, negative attention is better than no attention at all."

This is incredibly true.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 15, 2018 2:33 PM  

@4

"I do wish there was an edit button, however. My typing could use some work..."

Most of my mistakes, for some reason, I don't see until after I hit publish... so I copy the whole comment, and edit it, then delete my prior, screwed up comment.

In any forum where there's a debate, edit button is bad. Especially with the gamma types. They'll write something to provoke a reaction, then after they get the reaction, go back and edit out the provocation (or tone it down 40 decibels), and then start playing innocent victim.

Sooo... lack of edit button is a good thing.

Blogger Mark Stoval June 15, 2018 2:34 PM  

Nice to read a couple of threads today about gammas and such. Everyone seemed in such a good mood and there were some funny jokes.

Sometimes I do tire of the gloom and doom of talking about how western civilization is on the brink.

By the way, I figure I best be more careful considering the new policy. ;-)


PS: I miss the Christian libertarian days. Too bad Vox did not move towards the very hard right market anarchy. But what the hell. I just hope to live to see the USA break into smaller units.

Blogger BassmanCO June 15, 2018 2:36 PM  

The other thing I love about this blog. I am above midwit, but below our host (and a vast array of the commenters here). It is refreshing and humbling to come here and learn. Keeps me on my toes.

Blogger The Gray Man June 15, 2018 2:36 PM  

I've been here about 11 years and I rarely comment, but I do remember many of the old timers. Vox is always been great, honest, and even has taken the time to read almost every email I've sent him. I suspect he reads the ones I've sent him that he doesn't respond to he's just too busy. I love this community, The Dread ilk, and everything boxes done for us and the future of the alt right.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 15, 2018 2:36 PM  

@8

"also... I mean damn Vox... you have spend literal decades trying to help the worst of the worst... and yet somehow... the whole world thinks you're an asshole."

No good deed goes unpunished. :-(

Blogger Rabbi B June 15, 2018 2:37 PM  

I have followed his blog for a couple of years now and I'm convinced he has a severe attitude problem with everyone who may dissent even 0.001% with him, and he often appears to demand complete obedience to his words. - Skullomaniac

"complete obedience to his words"

That bit is HILARIOUS.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 15, 2018 2:40 PM  

"No good deed goes unpunished. :-("

Far too many idiots think that kindness is a sign of weakness.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 15, 2018 2:46 PM  

@25 Rabbi B

> "... solution to the [some group] question."

Rabbi B, as usual, the height of wit.

Blogger Nate June 15, 2018 2:52 PM  

"Personally I find VD to be rather nice, patient and mild-mannered, especially in video. No, I'm not sticking my tongue up your butt. That's really what I think."

see? SEE?

Ya go on InfoWars one damn time.. and you have gay frogs talking about rimjobs...

Blogger Clint June 15, 2018 2:54 PM  

Hey Nate, does this mean we get to add a time when it is OK for a man to cry?
1. When your grandfather/father dies.
2. When your dog dies.
3. WHen Vox lets the OG Dread Ilk decide who gets to comment.

I think it might be appropriate.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 15, 2018 2:54 PM  

Gottim.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 15, 2018 2:55 PM  

No Clint, it's okay for the Gammas to cry at #3.

Well, it's more like they're just going to do it regardless.

Blogger Clint June 15, 2018 2:56 PM  

Gammas cry all the time.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 15, 2018 2:57 PM  

@57


"Sounds like a lot of what makes these people so angry is simply intolerance of authority. They think that merely by showing up, they're entitled to a vote in how things are run. I wonder why they'd think that..."

Adherents to south-west asian religions.

Blogger Lovekraft June 15, 2018 3:14 PM  

Reminds me of the lyrics to an LPD song:

People, it's my house.
People, it's my party.
It's me who makes the rules.

"Judgment Hour"

Blogger Pierre Truc June 15, 2018 3:18 PM  

Nate wrote: Ya go on InfoWars one damn time.. and you have gay frogs talking about rimjobs...

LOOOOL

But, does Vox have a degree in Supreme Dark Lording?

Blogger One Deplorable DT June 15, 2018 3:18 PM  

@117 - Gammas cry all the time.

It's my comment
And I'll cry if I want to
Cry if I want to
Cry if I want to
You would cry to
If Vox was mean to you!


I wrote this while picturing Scalzi in tears and a pink dress.

Blogger I DontTroll June 15, 2018 3:20 PM  

Nate wrote:"Personally I find VD to be rather nice, patient and mild-mannered, especially in video. No, I'm not sticking my tongue up your butt. That's really what I think."

see? SEE?

Ya go on InfoWars one damn time.. and you have gay frogs talking about rimjobs...



I felt like I had to reply to this comment, but your reply was about 10x better than anything I could have come up with.

Pierre Truc, is that the literal translation of French phrase? That's a seriously vibrant visual.

Blogger Pierre Truc June 15, 2018 3:33 PM  

> Pierre Truc, is that the literal translation of French phrase? That's a seriously vibrant visual.

Indeed, "brown nosing" (I think that's the correct English term) basically translates to "lèche-cul" (ie, butt-licker) in French. The expression doesn't tell which part you got to lick, so you are free to imagine! We are a people of great poets, I know ;)

Are you implying that I was a little bit crass? Well, there is no edit feature, so it'll be there for posterity I guess ;)

Blogger KBuff June 15, 2018 3:38 PM  

Same here. Unless I have something unique to add, such as a perspective based on something I actually know something about, I'm pretty content to read what others have to say, which is usually pretty worthwhile.

Blogger Welsh Woodsman June 15, 2018 3:40 PM  

@ David The Good:

"Did you can actually espalier a citrus tree to a south-facing wall and gain a complete USDA zone, at the very least? "

That's very interesting. Is this found in your gardening book? I've always assumed your books were for gardeners south of the Mason Dixon line. Is my assumption incorrect.? Living in a northern area of New England I deal with a real harsh climate. My wife and I still manage to grow quite a bit..but the short growing season poses a challenge. We actually had nighttime lows in the mid 30's just a week ago.

Blogger R Webfoot June 15, 2018 3:43 PM  

"Hey Nate, does this mean we get to add a time when it is OK for a man to cry?
1. When your grandfather/father dies.
2. When your dog dies.
3. WHen Vox lets the OG Dread Ilk decide who gets to comment."

Better than that... he said VFM...

At some point in time, a Gamma would-be troll will be tracked back to his blog, webcomic, or what have you... and the VFM will be bored and drunk.

Blogger Nate June 15, 2018 3:45 PM  

" and the VFM will be bored and drunk."

WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU IMPLYING SIR

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 15, 2018 3:50 PM  

I AM NEVER BORED, GOOD SIR.

THE SHEER EFFRONTERY.

Blogger Welsh Woodsman June 15, 2018 4:02 PM  

Personally I'll miss some of the gamma threads. They're pretty amusing to witness. However, it must be downright tedious, as a blog administrator to deal with their attacks.

I remember one time when I was in my late teens and working at a summer job. It was the beginning of the second season and my boss , a definite sigma, had done something to piss me off.
Acting butthurt about it, I sulked for a few hours. My boss then took me aside and he said " You're the one on staff with the most experience. Im looking to you to help lead when I'm not around and to show the new guys on staff some of the ropes. If you can't act like a mature grown man, when I give legitimate advice, then you will have to find another job."
That experience helped me immensely. Any brief gamma tendencies that I had exhibited melted away...and were never really a part of my life ever again.
Honestly, if more young men exhibiting gamma tendencies were talked to like this when young, there is a better chance they would end up emotionally healthier in the long run. This type of crappy behavior would get nipped in the bud before it becomes habitual. Unfortunately, in this age of unaccountability this bitch type behavior is tolerated and the perpetrator is coddled....with tragic results.

Blogger Abigail June 15, 2018 4:03 PM  

If putting the Dread Ilk in charge of feeding gammas to the VFM returns the comment sections to their glory days, I am all for it! I miss lurking on those threads of yesteryear - the comment threads have become so short and inane recently as the old guard has no doubt moved to greener pastures where they can have 400-comment threads about guns and whiskey in peace. :'(

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) June 15, 2018 4:04 PM  

But, does Vox have a degree in Supreme Dark Lording?

I think it's one of those independent study things

Blogger Matthew McDaniel June 15, 2018 4:08 PM  

All of these gammas running around HAS to be related to the single mother epidemic.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 15, 2018 4:10 PM  

Bourbon and Glocks are gay

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 15, 2018 4:10 PM  

Fight me bitches

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener June 15, 2018 4:14 PM  

"Bourbon and Glocks are gay"

You're hopelessly wrong. I just bought a new Glock 19 last weekend. Named it Nate.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 15, 2018 4:15 PM  

Q.E.D

Blogger Cassandros the Elder June 15, 2018 4:16 PM  

In don't always look for comments with clever disparagement, but when I do, I check out what Snidely is saying. Just saying.

Blogger Unknown June 15, 2018 4:19 PM  

"This is going to get awful meta with the current immigration debate. Those who were here originally deciding who gets to stay and who doesn't...cue the screams of WHAT ABOUT MEEEEEE?"

Heh.

Okay, who has been lurking here since feminists were telling Vox Day that they will refuse to sleep with him (i.e., their final rhetorical gambit)?

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener June 15, 2018 4:19 PM  

It came with Homeboy Nyte Sytes (scroll down a little)

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 15, 2018 4:21 PM  

You should also keep in mind that Riker was once offered his own command.

Blogger Mark Stoval June 15, 2018 4:23 PM  

"Better than that... he said VFM..."

As we get old and forgetful, we find that 3 letter acronyms are the worst.

What is "VFM"?

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener June 15, 2018 4:24 PM  

Taking his own command would have meant leaving Wesley. He would never do that.

Blogger L. Beau June 15, 2018 4:24 PM  

"Americans: Bomb the shit out of the Arabs? No problem. But ruffle the feelings of someone online? Oh my, everyone instantly loses their shit!"

You are learning how a society filled with narcissists works, young grasshoppper!

Blogger Nate June 15, 2018 4:25 PM  

"You're hopelessly wrong. I just bought a new Glock 19 last weekend. Named it Nate."

You motherfucker...

Blogger L. Beau June 15, 2018 4:25 PM  

Vile Faceless Minions

Blogger Nate June 15, 2018 4:26 PM  

I've been asked to start a youtube channel where I post videos of myself reviewing scotch.

Blogger David The Good June 15, 2018 4:29 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:Matthew and I have a special understanding

Emphasis on the word "special."

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 15, 2018 4:30 PM  

@Stg58, last I heard it was twice.

Vicarious Fell Monsters.

Blogger David The Good June 15, 2018 4:32 PM  

Welsh Woodsman wrote:@ David The Good:

"Did you can actually espalier a citrus tree to a south-facing wall and gain a complete USDA zone, at the very least? "

That's very interesting. Is this found in your gardening book? I've always assumed your books were for gardeners south of the Mason Dixon line. Is my assumption incorrect.? Living in a northern area of New England I deal with a real harsh climate. My wife and I still manage to grow quite a bit..but the short growing season poses a challenge. We actually had nighttime lows in the mid 30's just a week ago.


Though I conducted most of my research in North Florida where temps don't usually go below the teens (F), a lot of the data is applicable farther north. Pushing plants a good zone or three north of their "appropriate" range is the goal, even though tropical plants feature in the title.

Blogger David The Good June 15, 2018 4:33 PM  

For example, I have a story in the book on peaches being grown a few hundred miles north of their normal range, thanks to special walls being built to create microclimates. It's fascinating material.

Blogger Mark Stoval June 15, 2018 4:33 PM  

Damn.

I was going with Value For Money.

I knew that was not right, but could not remember the real answer.

Blogger I DontTroll June 15, 2018 4:35 PM  

Nate wrote:I've been asked to start a youtube channel where I post videos of myself reviewing scotch.

Does the following ring any bells?

"Hello."
"How are you?"
"Quite well."
"Thank you very much."

Blogger I DontTroll June 15, 2018 4:36 PM  

My emotes didn't make the posting cut. Each line was supposed to be preceded by a sniff.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 15, 2018 4:36 PM  

Please come again

Blogger I DontTroll June 15, 2018 4:39 PM  

https://youtu.be/YVG1U-faqHY

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 15, 2018 4:40 PM  

"Nate19" does have a ring to it. Just rolls off the tongue
..

Blogger S'mon June 15, 2018 4:47 PM  

Ignore/delete/ban seems better than engaging - takes less energy. I like how Steve Sailer uses moderation on his blog so no basic-bitch abuse, and also doesn't engage with trolls so doesn't encouage them. Seems like a good model. Moderation is time consuming, but so is responding to lots of silly comments.

Blogger James Dixon June 15, 2018 4:48 PM  

> Email me or Nate or Difster if you're interested in getting involved.

Interested? Yes. Have the time for? No. So I'll stay out. At least for now.

Blogger James Dixon June 15, 2018 4:49 PM  

> I've been asked to start a youtube channel where I post videos of myself reviewing scotch.

Wouldn't you have to at least taste a scotch in order to review it? That doesn't sound plausible.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener June 15, 2018 4:53 PM  

The real pleasure with scotch happens when you stop drinking it. Does that mean that scotch drinkers have longer time preferences?

Blogger RA June 15, 2018 4:55 PM  

I, me, myself and I ... such fun.

I'm a rather infrequent poster who's been following this blog around 3 or 4 years now. I was usually the smartest guy in the room in most places I've worked and I definitely know something about trying to communicate with people more than 1SD IQ below me, let alone 2SD. 10 to 15 years ago I had the opportunity to be a sysadmin implementing stuff on a rather large WAN for a bunch of software whizzes with PhD's. All male, all white, no skypes. Oh what joy that was, I never learned so much at once. Plus I had their respect as a fairly sharp admin. That was really the first time I spend serious time with people smarter than me and I came to appreciate that over time.

Fast forward to following VD. Here I mostly feel like a midwit so I purposely don't comment much, just too much to absorb and think about. What's happening out there and where are my values in relation to that? But this stuff about western civ and Christian basis for it rings true for me and it all seems as VD says, the alt right is inevitable, I've felt myself dragged inexorably to the light by the correctness of many points made here, even as I sometimes cringe against the consequences taken to their logical conclusions. Now when I find myself in disagreement, I remember I'm still a midwit here despite my own IQ so I know to keep my mouth shut and keep reading. Like with JBP for instance.

Blogger Sim1776 June 15, 2018 4:56 PM  

I'll second this sentiment! The knowledge base here is incredible.

Blogger R Webfoot June 15, 2018 4:56 PM  

@127
"WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU IMPLYING SIR"

Gang rape is not exclusively a non-white phenomenon.

Blogger heidi June 15, 2018 5:04 PM  

I'm interested in this new tactic for gamma annihilation. I might be inclined to offer an assist.

Question... Will there be ovens? They are a gift that keeps on giving.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener June 15, 2018 5:13 PM  

"Gang rape is not exclusively a non-white phenomenon."

Especially when you consider the victims.

Blogger Crush Limbraw June 15, 2018 5:19 PM  

My usual retort when labeled as an asshole - and it happens enough- is to say "I represent that remark!"

Blogger SirHamster June 15, 2018 5:52 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:Carrots are really good for night vision, and with ranch.

Akshully, that's Brit wartime propaganda from when they enacted the globalist commie agenda.

I should go buy David's thriller.

Blogger LAZ June 15, 2018 6:04 PM  

@ Azure Amaranthine

He turned down promotion 4 times while on the Enterprise, including command of Voyager.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 15, 2018 6:07 PM  

@LAZ, I see older guys do that sometimes if they like where they're at and don't want to be thrown to the sharks.

Younger guys doing that is usually a sign of serious issues. Four times? Eww.

Blogger weka June 15, 2018 6:53 PM  

Trust me, that is the normal reaction of fools. Try dealing with clinical personality disorders.

Blogger Cubby8126 June 15, 2018 6:55 PM  

So my fav show "the vox slaughterhouse" where vox slaughters X person who has a weaker arguement is ending? Damn.

Blogger tublecane June 15, 2018 7:10 PM  

OT: Li'l Benji may have said it sarcastically, but I see in a tweet of his: "I'm Jewish. And from the little basic Christianity I know..."

So good to see the Melting Pot works, and the Shapiros of the world can have a "little basic" knowledge of the religion followed by the vast majority of their fellow citizens.

Blogger artensoll June 15, 2018 7:15 PM  

I pinched this Dostoyevsky quote from Ann Barnhardt's blog. She was talking about Diabolical Narcissism but it sounds a lot like Gamma to me:

"The man who lies to himself and listens to his own lie comes to such a pass that he cannot distinguish the truth within him, or around him, and so loses all respect for himself and for others. And having no respect he ceases to love, and in order to occupy and distract himself without love he gives way to passions and coarse pleasures, and sinks to bestiality in his vices, all from continual lying to other men and to himself. The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offence, isn’t it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill — he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offence, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it, and so pass to genuine vindictiveness." - Fyodor Dostoyevsky, The Brothers Karamazov

Blogger David The Good June 15, 2018 7:16 PM  

SirHamster wrote:
I should go buy David's thriller.


You don't own it yet?

BANNED

Blogger Ian McLeod June 15, 2018 7:22 PM  

This will surely Make Comments Great Again.

Blogger Rule of Wrist June 15, 2018 7:36 PM  

I hope Vox finds time to still rip apart a few of the worst offenders. It's some of the more entertaining content on this blog. Delegate the bulk of the problem, but save the choice morsels for personal consumption.

It's the blog version of watching Vox eat

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 15, 2018 7:43 PM  

Nate said:
I've been asked to start a youtube channel where I post videos of myself reviewing scotch.
I could do that, but all the reviews would be repetitive.
"How big a fagget do you have to be to put something this foul in your mouth?"
"This foul excretion of alcohol would not even be fit for Scotsmen."
"You'd have to be on heroin to actually drink this exudate from Satan's pimples without vomiting."
"Seriously, just how big a fagget?"

Blogger Hammerli280 June 15, 2018 7:47 PM  

I've been reading and commenting here since 2010. Vox can be curt on occasion, but that's true of all of us.

But there are some people who just don't get the idea of polite debate and reasoned discourse. If nothing else, NEVER post anything you would not say to someone's face. It doesn't take a genius to have good manners.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 15, 2018 7:51 PM  

@50

"Nobody like Gamma behavior. You would think these guys would have figured it out by the time they are 30!"

Up through college, I recognize a LOT of behaviors in myself that match the gamma sector. Then I joined the Army National Guard... had to move from the state where I joined (Indiana) back to Michigan... and thus needed to transfer to a new unit, and wound up in an infantry battalion. I thought I would stay there for a year, and then transfer to another ... I ended up staying with them for 18 years. Shortly after moving back to Michigan, I also discovered the usenet group alt.seduction.fast, and the early teachings of Ross Jeffries and others in his sphere at that time.

Although I was never an infantry man, I reported to an all infantry chain of command, and regardless of our MOS, we ALL did whatever training the riflemen conducted... so, even though a radioman, we in the commo section still even participated in such combat-arms training such as assaulting an objective from an armored personnel carrier.

But the bigger point is ... infantrymen, especially infantry NCOs and sergeants, are REALLY intolerant of gamma style behavior. I think if cost me a few thousand pushups over the course of some years....

Blogger LL June 15, 2018 7:54 PM  

The old lady got a touch of interest in this post enough to quick scroll through comments, see a few funny OG people drop it, and it makes me happy.

LL~Chromed Curses

Blogger Dirk Manly June 15, 2018 7:55 PM  

@73

"The left has lost the narrative. Most are quasi-authoritarian fascists/communists that require victimization to prop up their rackets."

It's accurately called "cry-bullying"

Blogger Silent Draco June 15, 2018 7:58 PM  

"Nate 19", let me guess no suppressor possible? I almost spewed a good Mendoza at that comment. Thanks!

I was busy enough this year to read periodically, but not comment. Apreci iste Vox' forbearance on comments, as it's easy to mangle content and thought.

One of the Gamma tells us that they never advance content or comedy. I had worked hard to make comments pertinent, not waste time or bandwidth.

Now, what brand of hot sauce do the VFM favor, while marinating their meat in mid-shredding? Or is it just extra salt? Asking for a fiend. :)

Blogger Dirk Manly June 15, 2018 8:08 PM  

@96

"As far as suggestions, maybe you could have some kind of registration system for the blog, and then limit the allowed posting rate for newcomers as the Ilk decides on their fate. And maybe you could use the same mechanism as a way to put commenters who's behavior is starting to wear out their welcome in the dog house for a while, prior to banning them if they don't improve."

I wonder if there could be an "upvote/downvote" system that is visible and available ONLY to the moderators.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 15, 2018 8:13 PM  

@120

"
But, does Vox have a degree in Supreme Dark Lording?"

He wrote the book and he's the faculty.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 15, 2018 8:14 PM  

Hot sauce? Cholula, or whatever your mom had handy.

Blogger Nate June 15, 2018 8:16 PM  

"Now, what brand of hot sauce do the VFM favor, while marinating their meat in mid-shredding? Or is it just extra salt? Asking for a fiend. :)"

Texas Pete or Crystal

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey June 15, 2018 8:19 PM  

One thing that I don't see a lot of here that is all too common in comment sections elsewhere is posters appealing to their personal experience/ credentials as a (and often the) basis for their argument. It's different if your account is linked to a verifiable IRL persona, of course, but if you're an anon on the interwebz, you have no credentials. You have no real life experiences -- because no one else can verify them.

You're just words on a screen. You are the argument. So base it on its own internal logic, and facts that others can verify, or STFU. Otherwise you're just attempting to run an cheap con. Which many (cough -- hasbarats) are, of course. You're demanding trust that you haven't earned. Demanding credentials from someone with a known IRL identity, when your own are based solely on appeals to your own (nonexistent) authority as a random anon, is just a variant of this common trick.

Blogger Avalanche June 15, 2018 8:25 PM  

@131 "But, does Vox have a degree in Supreme Dark Lording?
I think it's one of those independent study things"

Nah, he challenged the final and aced it -- highest score ever! Summa cum "run for your lives"!

Blogger The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey June 15, 2018 8:27 PM  

Over the years I have made a few stabs at this thought, but it never got much traction. Lemme run up that hill once again. Let me point out the great importance of the Guest-Host Relationship.

That relationship has often been considered even a sacred thing. Two seminal works of literature, namely Homer's Iliad and also his Odyssey, were completely formed by it. Think about it, everything begins with the Rape of Helen, ie, Paris being a very bad guest. This justifies war, leading eventually to close of the Odyssey with Ulysses slaying the Suitors of Penelope (also, very bad guests). And everywhere, constantly, every step of the way, in fact the entire Odyssey, this question of proper Guest-Host Relations drives the entire epic cycle. It's far from just a couple bookends.


Similarly, once you know to look for it you find it EVERYWHERE in the bible. Start with Adam and Even in the Garden of Eden, think of Moses in Egypt, to the persecuted Son of God who cries, "They know not what they do!" You will find abuses of the Guest-Host Relationship in every single book of the bible, very often driving the narrative, too.


My observation is that abuses of the Guest-Host Relationship get bizarrely overlooked for the very real, important sins that they truly are. It is very curious!


We who comment on this blog are the guests. Vox is the host. Every gamma and every SJW who barges in here does seem to barge in like one of the Suitors of Penelope and throw down like they own the place. That's simply sinful behavior.


Vox has been very, very fair in his role as host imho. If you got banned from here, do not throw stones. Look to yourself instead.

Blogger Avalanche June 15, 2018 8:35 PM  

@146 Nate: "I've been asked to start a youtube channel where I post videos of myself reviewing scotch."

With cheeseburgers?

Blogger Hammerli280 June 15, 2018 8:40 PM  

@189: Interesting perspective. I think you may have something there...especially the enormity of violating the guest-host relationship. We tend to forget about that these days.

Blogger The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey June 15, 2018 9:01 PM  

Hammerli280 wrote:@189: Interesting perspective. I think you may have something there...especially the enormity of violating the guest-host relationship. We tend to forget about that these days.


Thank you! Extrapolate the problem in the context of the ongoing immivasion, when you have the chance.

Blogger Uncle John's Band June 15, 2018 9:15 PM  

The repetitiveness must make dealing with it incredibly tedious. What I've found remarkable is the level of emotional investment. It's a way to distinguish it from the 'I don't get it so you're crazy' 2 SD gap stuff, which can look superficially similar and does often overlap.

Blogger Welsh Woodsman June 15, 2018 9:22 PM  

@ David The Good

"For example, I have a story in the book on peaches being grown a few hundred miles north of their normal range, thanks to special walls being built to create microclimates. It's fascinating material."

You have me sold...I'll be purchasing the book. Microclimates make a lot of sense to me. My full time occupation is that of a forester. Regularly, I can note the presence of certain stands of tree species in locations more removed - north or south- from that given species general range of cover. This is always due to some set of geographical features that create the environment for a microclimate. Outside of cold frames - it never dawned on me to artificially create microclimates for certain species of fruit trees etc.. Very fascinating stuff.
I was recently reading one of David Ludlum's seminal books on the weather history of New England. During the infamous summer of 1816 you would have certain communities, in northern New England, where all the farms but one had periodic frosts throughout every month of the year. That one farm would be located in a spot that was essentially a microclimate. That one small spot in that community where the warm air pooled and conditions were just right to keep things from freezing .

Blogger Welsh Woodsman June 15, 2018 9:28 PM  

@ 193
I was just listening to the "Closing of Winterland" 12/31/78 - tonight. Tight drumming and very good version of Samson and Delilah.
Great stuff

Blogger Matt June 15, 2018 9:43 PM  

EP used to go off the rails at times. Miss those days.

Blogger Loyd Jenkins June 15, 2018 9:46 PM  

Given Vox has YEARS of dealing with gammas, I bow to his superior experience. Time is the one thing that comes to mind we shouldn't waste.

@189 -- Your Guest/Host idea fits well. At times in history, it was very common and definite. Good analysis.

Blogger Lyon June 15, 2018 9:49 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger James Dixon June 15, 2018 9:51 PM  

> It's different if your account is linked to a verifiable IRL persona, of course, but if you're an anon on the interwebz, you have no credentials. You have no real life experiences -- because no one else can verify them.

Most of the real old timers here are verifiable IRL.

Blogger Lyon June 15, 2018 9:51 PM  

@189. Solid observation.

Growing up in a tight knit community, 99% of the entire community being of identical race and religion, it was rather common place for nighbours to stop by and visit, out of the blue.

Yes, we also kept our doors unlocked, too. It was what the young folk today call a “high trust” community. And, no, this wasn't a long time ago. I'm a GenX, younger than Vox, I suspect.

In these visits, the guest-host relationship was ALWAYS in play.
One example. Food was always offered. The guest would decline. The host would insist. And food, or at least tea, was served. If tea was agreed on, it was merely a foot-in-the-door close and food was brought out with the tea. And you ate everything that was offered. Needless to say, no one in my youth was asking for gluten-free.

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