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Tuesday, June 26, 2018

Jordanetics Week: Day 2

I don't think many of Jordan B. Peterson's fans have any clue how totally and utterly irrelevant both he, and his pernicious advice, are going to be in the coming years. I find it particularly amusing when his cargo cultists refer to him as a warrior when the man is literally the most frightened bunny rabbit whose work I have ever read. Jordan B. Peterson isn't merely a physical and intellectual coward, his entire philosophy is based on cowardice and the absolute need to flee from confrontation.

Even the Littlest Chickenhawk, a notorious coward of epic proportions, has more spine than the Canadian Charlatan.

I thought a little more about Peterson's challenge to the "Alt-Right idealogues" that he is absolutely terrified of ever facing directly, and it occurs to me that my response could have been more succinct. All I really needed to say was this: "You and your advocacy of atomic individualism are entirely irrelevant at this particular historical epoch. Your assertions are even less coherent and less credible than Francis Fukuyama's idiotic claim that humanity has reached the end of history."

Update: "God is the mode of being you value the most as demonstrated or manifested in your presumption, perception and action."
- Jordan B. Peterson

Forget redefining truth, now he is redefining God and deifying idolatry. I told you the man was objectively stupid.

Labels: , ,

96 Comments:

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira June 26, 2018 8:11 AM  

Canadian Cuck, Crazy Christ, Dr Jordanetics... these are all great names for the creature. But there hasn't been one yet that really hit the sweet spot.

Blogger Mark J.T. June 26, 2018 8:14 AM  

I used to be a Vox Day and Jordan Peterson fan. Now I am a Vox Day fan.

Thank you for talking me out of this lunacy, Vox.

Blogger Shimshon June 26, 2018 8:20 AM  

Isn't cuck just the normal mode of thought for Canadians? Can the term even apply to them?

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira June 26, 2018 8:28 AM  

@3

That's what I mean, Canadian Cuck is redundant, and not very specific. My submission would be Crackhead Kermit, but I'm not as skilled a writer. Perhaps he will have to do or say something striking for us to exploit.

Blogger Legion of Logic June 26, 2018 8:29 AM  

Jealousy is a sad thing indeed.

Blogger TM Lutas June 26, 2018 8:32 AM  

I think it would be fair to describe conventional hard leftism as the Titanic, a clear eyed christian nationalism as the Carpathia (the rescue ship the survivors of the Titanic got on) and JBP as a fragile lifeboat.

Pointing out that JBP's halfway house is long-term unsustainable to finish the Atlantic passage still seems to be both true and missing the point in my analysis. That's not what makes him a good idea in the minds of so many. It's not his function.

Until the critique successfully takes aim at JBP in his lifeboat role to move people off of crazy-town leftism, it will fundamentally miss. As a transitional lifeboat, I'm not sure he's all that bad.

To the extent that JBP thinks that he is superior to more conventional forms of christianity, I think he would be severely off the mark. He's not a philosophical ocean liner like Catholicism or Orthodoxy are. But I've never seen him make that claim. Did I miss it?

Blogger David Baker June 26, 2018 8:42 AM  

As he "hangs out" with Dave Rubin I think labelling him "JBP, gay neocon icon" might not help his cred with swms.....

Blogger Ominous Cowherd June 26, 2018 8:43 AM  

TM Lutas wrote:I think it would be fair to describe conventional hard leftism as the Titanic, a clear eyed christian nationalism as the Carpathia (the rescue ship the survivors of the Titanic got on) and JBP as a fragile lifeboat.

Until the critique successfully takes aim at JBP in his lifeboat role to move people off of crazy-town leftism, it will fundamentally miss. As a transitional lifeboat, I'm not sure he's all that bad.


JPB is telling the swimmers to keep their heads above water and swim away from that nasty old Carpathia. Stay in the cool, cleansing water - we don't need no steenkin' rescue!

Blogger David Baker June 26, 2018 8:46 AM  

Be interested to see how they divy up the receipts for their roadshow... has Rubin got a sweet deal as impresario with Jordy as the talent. Look forward to a fall out between them in a few months when Rubin cruises for the next oppo.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 26, 2018 8:49 AM  

"Jealousy is a sad thing indeed."

Almost as sad as the shrill cries of lying freaks bemoaning the perishment of their favored narcotic supply.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 26, 2018 8:50 AM  

TM Lutas, he's not a lifeboat. He's the numbing cold of the water in that analogy.

Blogger John D Alden June 26, 2018 8:52 AM  

He put out quite a gem last night:

"God is the mode of being you value the most as demonstrated or manifested in your presumption, perception and action."

Link to archived tweet

Blogger bob kek mando - ( "an entirely disconnected spew of word vomit" ) June 26, 2018 8:54 AM  

5. Legion of Logic June 26, 2018 8:29 AM
Jealousy is a sad thing indeed.



why would a Rightest be "jealous" of someone who self describes as a Leftist?

anyways, regardless of the Dialectical accuracy of Vox's statement, it's far too long winded to be 'effective' on Normies.

post something like Capt Jordy Saveaho and his wife in those goofy getups of theirs and label it "Pizza Fags".

Blogger VD June 26, 2018 8:54 AM  

Jealousy is a sad thing indeed.

Jealous of a suicidally depressed man who fantasizes about eating his own cousin? Are you serious?

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums June 26, 2018 8:56 AM  

TM Lutas wrote:I think it would be fair to describe conventional hard leftism as the Titanic, a clear eyed christian nationalism as the Carpathia (the rescue ship the survivors of the Titanic got on) and JBP as a fragile lifeboat.



But who's the Olympic in this analogy?

Blogger Neutrinoide June 26, 2018 8:58 AM  

He is a bunny irrelevant coward but I need to destroy him. VOX Day.

Blogger VD June 26, 2018 8:59 AM  

Canadian Cuck is redundant

Good point. Changed, though not corrected.

Blogger VD June 26, 2018 9:03 AM  

He is a bunny irrelevant coward but I need to destroy him.

He is. And I wouldn't even pay him any attention at all if there weren't so many morons like you who genuinely believe that he is wise, philosophically insightful, and "helping people".

As it is, I don't anticipate that I will stop criticizing the charlatan until he either recants completely or kills himself. It's only been a few weeks. I can do this for years, especially considering that he provides me with new material almost every time he opens his mouth.

Blogger Rabbi B June 26, 2018 9:05 AM  

I'm an irrelevant midwit commenter and I need attention. Neutrinoide.

Blogger James Jones June 26, 2018 9:06 AM  

You have no idea how ridiculous you sound to those of us who've known Vox a long time.

Blogger Neutrinoide June 26, 2018 9:07 AM  

Of course you are.
How about you start by making good comic book. To bring the art to a next level.Instead of boring derivative?

Blogger Andrew Brown June 26, 2018 9:07 AM  

His character doesn't surprise me, plenty of intellectual charlatans in this age. It's his fans who idolise him that surprise me.
Ahh well, wheat and chaff and Matt 12:20 rings a bell.

Blogger Neutrinoide June 26, 2018 9:08 AM  

I don't claim otherwisw. Me

Blogger James Jones June 26, 2018 9:08 AM  

You are clearly not tall enough to join us on this ride.

Blogger Rabbi B June 26, 2018 9:09 AM  

Gamma detected ...

Blogger Rabbi B June 26, 2018 9:10 AM  

@25 James Jones

He's not even tall enough for the short bus.

Blogger Kettle June 26, 2018 9:12 AM  

Jordy is funny, if you listen to some of his talks he clearly hits walls on a regular basis where if you just continue his line of thought you end up at alt-right positions.
Western society requires a minimum IQ to function in....me oh my what do we do..... Well Jordy, thats easy, lock down the border, expel the invaders and value positive breeding characteristics.
Almost every time he puts on the concerned father act, oh what a terrible dilemma what do we do?

Yeah, I was intrigued by him at first but sure enough his true colors shine through

Blogger Daniel Hammarberg June 26, 2018 9:12 AM  

This guy should preach his atomic individualism to the individual cells of his body. I mean, why should his hair cells, his brain cells, his lung cells and so on think that they're part of anything greater than themselves? They should all embrace his ideas and go their own, separate ways.

The human body has excellent internal structure, as well as immune defense to keep invaders out. I firmly believe that in order for any kind of individualism to be able to exist, our societal bodies need to keep out any contagion that can't function at any higher level than that of a bacteria, like our own bodies do.

Blogger Bobiojimbo June 26, 2018 9:16 AM  

Well, and here I was, once thinking that he was on the cusp of belief. But, from the horse's mouth, he spoke, and he made his choice.

I think this by far the best meme yet, and it really demonstrates how bad his ideas are. Good job!

Blogger Azimus June 26, 2018 9:17 AM  

I wonder if the reason many people follow Jordan Peterson is because many people are unable to think in the abstract, philosophical plain, and are only able to relate to ideas in a material, applied philosophy sense. It would be an interesting exercise to have people listen to say 20 minutes of JBP, in which sound bytes of "make your damn bed" and "get a job/take on responsibility" would be co-mingled with "I ate my beautiful cousin" and "God is the mode of being you value most." I would wager that 90% of his followers would remember "make your bed" because its practical, pull yourself together advice, and that same 90% would have no memory of "God is what you make it" blather because it simply sailed over their heads as too abstract. I confess this is the case for me... I wonder how many others it was true for.

Blogger Seth June 26, 2018 9:24 AM  

Frame Game did a great breakdown of the JBP v Eric Dyson debate. JBP had no defense in being called a "mean white man", he just tried to get mercy from the audience and got tricked into publically agreeing to visit black churches to learn about their oppression history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LH1IoIYMPQ

Blogger Unknown June 26, 2018 9:28 AM  

John D Alden wrote:He put out quite a gem last night:

"God is the mode of being you value the most as demonstrated or manifested in your presumption, perception and action."

Link to archived tweet


What is that even supposed to mean? It's empty esoteric bs. No doubt the main point isn't to communicate any actual meaning, but to sound profound and learned.

Blogger Neutrinoide June 26, 2018 9:31 AM  

I'll make a counter argument. Smart people hate when someone talk about the subconcious and psychology because their complexe rationality they built and are relying too. JP show their instinctual abyss hidden behind their opinion and actions. That was my troll comment of the day. See you next time. May your heart find peace.

Blogger Ronaldus of Chitown June 26, 2018 9:35 AM  

JBP is teaching a different gospel. If you want to know God, the Father, look to the Son. Jesus isn't a mode of being. He is God revealing himself to mankind. Christians need to contrast
JBPs dissimulationn about God and Christ with what the Bible actually says. Christians confess Christ as Lord.

Blogger Longtime Lurker June 26, 2018 9:36 AM  

That JBP tweet reads like a verbose ripoff of Heinlein's Thou art God riff from a Stranger in a Strange Land.

Blogger Cloom Glue June 26, 2018 9:37 AM  

presumption, perception and action

presumption - an idea that is taken to be true, and often used as the basis for other ideas, although it is not known for certain.


Including presumption was odd and then I looked at the meaning and "is not known for certain" sticks out because I watched Jordan's Bible Intro lecture to condense it into a meme, and his attempt at rationalizing the bible is repeatedly saying he is not certain about anything he says about it and about God, ... thus he repeats `presumption' in his tweet.

He would have to go with: conjecture, confusion, and downfall, to make his sully of the name of God more obvious to Jordanites. They would read it his way and not get it. I'll make a Satan meme of those words.

Blogger Salt June 26, 2018 9:46 AM  

Keep an eye out if JBP buys up any property in Guyana.

Blogger SouthRon June 26, 2018 9:54 AM  

Christianity - The Hope of Heaven and restoring The West

Jordanolatry - The hope of standing up straight and awaking in a clean bed

Blogger Harambe June 26, 2018 9:55 AM  

I'll be honest. I liked him a lot at first. I only really got uneasy when he wouldn't commit to a straight answer on whether he was a Christian. I didn't think much of it further than simply not listening to his speeches and lectures anymore.

Blogger SouthRon June 26, 2018 9:56 AM  

Pretty much the same hope as chimps staring up at the underbelly of MPAI.

Blogger Sillon Bono June 26, 2018 10:02 AM  

Andrew Brown wrote:His character doesn't surprise me, plenty of intellectual charlatans in this age. It's his fans who idolise him that surprise me.

Ahh well, wheat and chaff and Matt 12:20 rings a bell.


Well most people can't tell when politicians talk shit, nor can't most people make sense of a complex argument regardless of the realm.

This is why most JP fans have a problem understanding what Vox is complaining about, all they see is "weak", "coward", "charlatan", while at the same time (as someone pointed here before) he shoots at the Feminazi hydra who's known for destroying much more masculine, less cowardly men.

(I sound like I'm defending JP and I'm not, so don't get there)

The thing is that the part of JP's message that people understand is fairly simple.

"Be responsible"
"Take care of yourself"
"Extreme left is bad, I'm defending myself against them all the time, and if I win so can you."

For whatever reason resonates with a lot of people who are being told day in and day out that they're responsible for all the world problems.

I've had chats with friends who see JP as some kind of father/respectable professor figure.

(Again I'm not defending JP, just describing reality)

In the words of Scott Adams, when people think about JP they have a very different picture in their minds compared to Vox and other people here.

Blogger VD June 26, 2018 10:07 AM  

In the words of Scott Adams, when people think about JP they have a very different picture in their minds compared to Vox and other people here.

Of course they do. They've never read his work and they don't know what he actually says, thinks, and believes. Most of them are not even capable of understanding it.

As for my communicating the problems to them, well, there is our old friend the IQ gap. And when I simplify it so they can grasp it, they just shriek "ad hominem!"

Blogger VD June 26, 2018 10:10 AM  

Vox: "This means this."

Peterson fan: "Well, how do you KNOW that?"

Vox: "Because he wrote it and I read it. That's literally what it means."

Peterson fan: "Yeah, but that's just your opinion."

Vox: "It's not my opinion. That's a direct quote. His words."

Peterson fan: "Yeah, but it's your OPINION about what his words mean."

Vox: "They can't mean anything else. That's literally and actually what those words mean."

Peterson fan: "And THAT'S your opinion!"

Vox: "Well, I see at least you've grasped Peterson's teachings on what "truth" is."

Blogger Steb June 26, 2018 10:11 AM  

After tidying your room, the next step is installing a golden calf to worship in it.
It's an archetype of self fulfilment you know... numerous studies... Jung believed... biblical symbolism... if you want that promotion at work...

Blogger David Wright June 26, 2018 10:11 AM  

"Keep an eye out if JBP buys up any property in Guyana."

Well he has stated in the past he wanted to buy a church building.

Blogger Longtime Lurker June 26, 2018 10:15 AM  

@41: "Extreme left is bad, I'm defending myself against them all the time, and if I win so can you."

I suspect that's JBP's greatest source of attraction, pushing back on the Hard Left. That's the only reason he briefly caught my attention. That said, JBP should have been a magician. He'd be really good at it. Everybody likes a really good card trick, right?

Blogger Blume June 26, 2018 10:16 AM  

The coward comment seems to be stuck in a gamma/woman communication gap. Zaklog couldn't get it at all yesterday but its one of the most basic things that every man seems to understand. But to the gammas and women it just seems bizaar.

Blogger Cloom Glue June 26, 2018 10:17 AM  

Unknown wrote:John D Alden wrote:He put out quite a gem last night:

"God is the mode of being you value the most as demonstrated or manifested in your presumption, perception and action."

Link to archived tweet


What is that even supposed to mean? It's empty esoteric bs. No doubt the main point isn't to communicate any actual meaning, but to sound profound and learned.


No. It is more evil. Jordan is saying you can pretend God is whatever you value most, and so go out and presume and do what you value, without contemplating what God values. He is wrong, but he goes down that rationalization because he supposes none of us can know what God values. The bible and saints say otherwise. Jordan read some of the bible and says he doesn't understand.

Blogger Steb June 26, 2018 10:19 AM  

"God is the mode of being you value the most as demonstrated or manifested in your presumption, perception and action."

Link to archived tweet

What is that even supposed to mean? It's empty esoteric bs. No doubt the main point isn't to communicate any actual meaning, but to sound profound and learned.
_____

To me it seems like he's saying that God is just a label you apply to whatever you value most. So if you so everything for money, then money is literally God.

It's idolatry. Textbook.

Blogger Dire Badger June 26, 2018 10:28 AM  

These people are all the same. Acting like they are the great white hope simply because they took aim at some low-hanging liberal fruits.

Blogger Kevin Walker June 26, 2018 10:28 AM  

Precisely. Oh how I would like to see these liars and twisters of word and meaning slowly roasted over a spit. Everything is open to interpretation to them.

Blogger Cloom Glue June 26, 2018 10:35 AM  

@12 The replies to Jordan in that twitter link were very funny.

Blogger Rabbi B June 26, 2018 10:38 AM  

Jordan Peterson is more renowned than we imagined:

"...having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.... men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all..." (cf. II Timothy 3)

Blogger Gritón del Desierto June 26, 2018 10:43 AM  

"God is the mode of being you value the most as demonstrated or manifested in your presumption, perception and action."
- Jordan B. Peterson

That quote reminds me of a image that I found in the FB profile of a satanist guy who I used to debate why.The image was a photo of a statue of Baphomet with a caption that said something like this "God is your Future self,guiding you in the road to godhood"

Blogger OGRE June 26, 2018 10:49 AM  

God is the mode of being you value the most as demonstrated or manifested in your presumption, perception and action

uggh. This is definite word salad. The first part about 'mode of being' relates to Heidegger, from whom JBP often draws. But the rest of it is that type of epistemic pragmatism JBP is fond of, that one believes what one is ready to act upon. Its literally as if he lifted half a sentence from Heidegger and the other half from William James and wants to pass it off as his own profound insight.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums June 26, 2018 10:53 AM  

Peterson explains that you are how you behave because how you behave betrays what your "true" beliefs are. He applies this to Christianity and flat out states that because he acts like a christian he is a christian. This is why he always avoided the question "Do you believe in God?". His version of Christianity requires no faith in a deity, only behavior patterns.

By this logic Richard Dawkins is a christian, and Karl Marx a capitalist because he sold books and owned stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIB05YeMiW8

Q: "Do you believe Jesus Christ rose again from the dead?"
Peterson: "Depends what you mean by Jesus."

Mister Metokur nailed it on the head when he juxtaposed a clip of Bill Clinton saying "Depends on what the definition of is... is."

Blogger Cecil Henry June 26, 2018 10:55 AM  

No Jordan: That is a description of what one has made a god.


Big difference.

Blogger Al K. Annossow June 26, 2018 11:21 AM  

While advancing the globalist agenda by reducing the cohesiveness of society, Peterson is a brief pause in the insane progressive agenda until past progress is normalized enough to continue forward.

Blogger widlast washere June 26, 2018 11:21 AM  

"What is that even supposed to mean? It's empty esoteric bs. No doubt the main point isn't to communicate any actual meaning, but to sound profound and learned."

A few weeks ago, I was interested in finding out about the basis of "postmodern" thought and it's proponents, so I purchased and read "Fashionable Nonsense" by Sokal and Brickmont. Damned hard read, but the one thing they demonstrate beyond all doubt, is that postmodernists are all hot air. They spout flowery, confused, often meaningless garbage, and they do it abundantly, all just to look smart and gain halfwit followers.

Blogger The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey June 26, 2018 11:27 AM  

Once again the most damning thing you could ever do to Jordy is to quote him. That latest quote is bad, very bad. Frankly I remember better stuff from freshmen at drunken college parties trying to think of something kewl to say to pick up coeds. And these guys were mostly stoned at the time, too.

Blogger tublecane June 26, 2018 11:36 AM  

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I have been informed that quote is reminiscent of the writings of Jonathan Haidt, author of the pop-psychology (or whatever) book the Righteous Mind.

I know nothing about that fellow, except that he's an academic and "social psychologist." But the book's subtitle: "Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion," has the scent of Petersonism. I can hear him in my head:

"There are Good Guys all across the political spectrum and in different faiths (though not if they're racist white people). Let's drop the bloody labels, eh? Get all the good people together so we can politely ignore the bad ones. As Dostoyevsky said..."

Blogger Ceerilan June 26, 2018 11:40 AM  

I wonder what part of Jordan Peterson's popularity derives itself directly from a lack of faith, by that, I mean the observation that people will not trust the holy Spirit to work in helping to convert others...that they think they have to rely on some academic who has been a sometime Ally. Faith in JP expressed by his fans on this blog sounds an awful lot like religious faith. It has this non-rational ring to it.

Blogger tublecane June 26, 2018 12:00 PM  

@Wuzzums Fuzzums- How could it depend on what one means by Jesus? If it's the timeless archetype that the historical Jesus embodied, or whatever, then it couldn't rise from the dead. So the answer would be NO.

At least Clinton's quibble made sense, because he was talking about the difference between an ongoing affair and an affair in the past.

Blogger Ronaldus of Chitown June 26, 2018 12:14 PM  

The difference being, Haidt doesn't shy away from describing himself as a liberal athiest Jew. I actually enjoyed The Rightous Mind while considering the source. That was how I approached JBP initially. But by not rightly dividing the word of truth he has shown himself to be a false prophet, roughly speaking.

Blogger R Webfoot June 26, 2018 12:18 PM  

@57
"No Jordan: That is a description of what one has made a god.

Big difference."

He is pretty clear with that on some occasions.... whatever it is that you actually live by, he says that is your god.

As for himself,

"My God is the spirit that is trying to elevate Being. My God is the spirit that makes everything come together. My God is the spirit that makes order out of chaos and then recasts order when it has become too limiting. My God is the spirit of truth incarnate. None of that is supernatural. It is instead what is most real. It depends on what you mean by pray. I don't ask God for favors, if that's what you mean."- Reddit Ask Me Anything, 2017

Blogger TM Lutas June 26, 2018 12:24 PM  

@12 The Bible's filled with prophets chiding people for making other things their God even as they give lip service to the creator of the universe as God. As a description of what God is to a person, it's actually a correct description that would have the Old Testament prophets nodding in agreement.

It's incomplete in that it doesn't explicitly acknowledge that what you pick as your highest value/your deity matters and not all choices are as good as any other. This is pretty much exactly what I would see a lifeboat public intellectual doing. The crazy-town leftists do not want you thinking about ultimate values at all. That's not where they win.

In the end, you will find Christ by either revelation or process of elimination but you're very unlikely to find Him if you don't look. JBP gets people to start looking and pay attention to the question. Again, this is saving people off the Titanic work, not in and of itself sufficient for a good life and salvation.

Blogger TM Lutas June 26, 2018 12:29 PM  

@15 I'd never heard of the controversy. Thanks for enlarging my storehouse of alternative theories

http://www.williammurdoch.net/articles_34_Titanic_switch_theory_03.html

Blogger Disciple of Kek June 26, 2018 12:30 PM  

There was something always a bit off about JBP. I admit, I did like him at one point. I didn't read his books until recently (just 12 Rules of Life so far.... wow, does that book need some editing!), but listened to some of his talks. I never thought he was on the right, but just a pro free-speech liberal. After seeing some of his Maps of Meaning quoted here, it really revealed to me that he has no core, just a post-modern type who wants to level everyone into some numbed-out, drugged out, culture-less stupor to avoid war. (although he doesn't realize the effort to destroy culture en masse like this is begging for war...)

I am grateful for Vox and others who made this undeniable. It's one of those things that once I knew it, other things make sense. I used to think he was a "tortured genius" type... but now I realize that high intelligence alone doesn't necessarily lead to such suffering, it takes some inner disturbances to become tortured like that. Seeing that he was a lackey for the UN made a lot of things clear- his quick rise, his snakelike ability to never make a real stance on anything, just to move around to stay in the limelight, his opposition to all identity politics.

In reference to the above post: Jordan B Peterson wants to make order out of "chaos", i.e. New World Order out of freedom and tradition.

Blogger TM Lutas June 26, 2018 12:35 PM  

@27 Do you know of any centrist who *doesn't* refuse to follow the implications of what just came out of their mouth? It's a generic feature of centrism that they're not really intellectually consistent. They hedge and generally they're somewhat compulsive about it.

Unfortunately, hedging like that is a survival trait often enough that large amounts of the population are hedgers and likely will remain so for generations.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums June 26, 2018 12:45 PM  

@63
He is thinking 2 arguments ahead and knows he has to rebuttal to the atheist's counter argument of "there is no evidence forJesus's resurrection, just hearsay". Therefore him avoiding a yes or no answer is an attempt to wiggle himself out of that corner.

This is a typical debating tactic. Whenever you know you don't have a clear answer or an effective answer, simply try to redefine the meaning of the question itself and try to bring the discussion back to your expertise. It's sort of a light strawman. You inquire more and more about what the person meant with the question in the hopes of them paraphrasing the original question in such a way that you find a way out. Or hopefully ask so many questions about the question that the guy who asked it forgot what the question was in the first place.

Think about it. How did Peterson manage to get from "Did Jesus rose from the dead?" to talking about the myth of the phoenix, how too much life leads to death, and how adequately enough death leads to life?

Plus he ads the epic line "I don't know what would happen if you got the balance between death and life exactly right" which is beyond confusing. It's a wrench in the discussion. It's meant to derail the conversation towards some nonsense rather that the original question.

And the funny thing is he answers the question in the end. He basically says "I don't know", though it took him 6 minutes of verbalizing random thoughts to do it. This is also something he himself points out. He describes his speeches as him "thinking out loud".

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 26, 2018 12:48 PM  

R Webfoot wrote:"My God is the spirit that is trying to elevate Being. My God is the spirit that makes everything come together. My God is the spirit that makes order out of chaos and then recasts order when it has become too limiting. My God is the spirit of truth incarnate. None of that is supernatural. It is instead what is most real. It depends on what you mean by pray. I don't ask God for favors, if that's what you mean."--JBP
His God is himself. It is becoming increasingly obvious that he thinks your God should be himself as well. That's what he's saying, and because he couches it in vague terms of spirit and metaphysics, morons think he's saying something else.

Blogger Azimus June 26, 2018 12:48 PM  

If I recall correctly (and I am no philosophy expert), Descartes first established that he existed (Cogito ergo Sum), then that God existed, then that the "external universe" existed (that is, all parts of the universe that are not the self or God). It does seem, reading the excerpts from JBP and Vox's revelatory work, that JBP goes from Step 1 to Step 3, and in doing so, there is no greater arbiter of truth and reality than the self. Hence the insane comment above about "God being the highest mode BLAH."

Is that JBP's foundational argument? That the self establishes reality? And isn't that post-modern leftist? Am I off?

Blogger RA June 26, 2018 12:57 PM  

"God is the mode of being you value the most as demonstrated or manifested in your presumption, perception and action."

Sola scriptura writ large and extreme.

Nothing more than one of many messengers leading the lost sheep away from the Lord.

Blogger Cloom Glue June 26, 2018 12:59 PM  

As a description of what God is to a person, it's actually a correct description that would have the Old Testament prophets nodding in agreement.

No. "mode of being you value the most" implies multiple modes and values. The Old Testament prophets were not endorsing multiple anything, only an absolute.

Are we going to reduce this to arguing about whether God means "your god" or "God"? This word definition game is muddying the water and using the prophets to endorse it without saying which definition, is very serpent.

Blogger Pierre Truc June 26, 2018 1:00 PM  

Seems like JP's pills got swapped with Deepak Chopra's or something.

Blogger VD June 26, 2018 1:32 PM  

The Bible's filled with prophets chiding people for making other things their God even as they give lip service to the creator of the universe as God. As a description of what God is to a person, it's actually a correct description that would have the Old Testament prophets nodding in agreement.

No, it is not. It is a definition of a false god, an idol. Stop lying and whoring for Peterson or you won't be commenting here anymore.

He did not say "your god", he said "God". That is NOT what God is.

Blogger VD June 26, 2018 1:35 PM  

JBP gets people to start looking and pay attention to the question. Again, this is saving people off the Titanic work, not in and of itself sufficient for a good life and salvation.

Peterson observably doesn't get anyone to start looking for anything or paying attention to anything but his bafflegarbled nonsense. Your idiotic whoring for the man is a perfect example of how he gets people to stop thinking and avoid asking obvious questions.

Blogger Nate73 June 26, 2018 2:19 PM  

He gets a lot of shares and praise for publicly humiliating feminists and SJWs. I'm not sure why they keep platforming him, unless it's a (((conspiracy))). Maybe the globalists watched a few Sargon videos criticizing Anita Sarkeesian and thought hey let's get in on this and coopt it.

Blogger Panzerdude June 26, 2018 2:30 PM  

There is a book, forget what's it's called, that says, "The fool says there is no God." JBP is a fool. He feels better about himself, and causes other fools to feel better about themselves, by trying to redefine who God is.

Rather than saying, "There is no God.", he says, God = whatever you prioritize. The other fools jump on board, saying, "Yeah. See how smart JBP is!!!"

The sad thing is the number of people who profess to believe in God, but then defend, support, etc. JBP's efforts to inculcate large segments of the culture in ideas that deny God. Really, amazingly sad.

BTW. God = Creator (God of the Bible), The First Cause, etc., i.e. not an "idea" or human behavior.

Blogger Panzerdude June 26, 2018 2:32 PM  

To be more precise: God = The Uncaused Cause. Creator of the universe, i.e. everything.

Blogger Matamoros June 26, 2018 3:11 PM  

Off topic: Is reality returning?

'Women CAN'T have it all': Expert warns women are losing their best years of fertility because of financial and career pressures – and then struggle to conceive when they do try

'Women CAN'T have it all': Expert warns women are losing their best years of fertility because of financial and career pressures – and then struggle to conceive when they do try

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5888091/Women-Expert-warns-women-losing-best-years-fertility.html

Blogger Christian Schulzke June 26, 2018 3:23 PM  

And by cleaning his room...

Blogger DonReynolds June 26, 2018 3:24 PM  

Matamoros wrote:Off topic: Is reality returning?

'Women CAN'T have it all': Expert warns women are losing their best years of fertility because of financial and career pressures – and then struggle to conceive when they do try

'Women CAN'T have it all': Expert warns women are losing their best years of fertility because of financial and career pressures – and then struggle to conceive when they do try

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5888091/Women-Expert-warns-women-losing-best-years-fertility.html


Perhaps not completely OT. Throughout American history, until almost a century ago, the average American female had 13 children. Some had none, some had fewer, and some had more....but the average was fairly consistent and natural fertility with 13 children. The first really big interruption came with the Great Depression and WWII. Except for the post-war baby boom, that interruption has become a habit. When the women went to work during the war years and started replacing men in the workplace and earning their own paycheck...that was the beginning of popular feminism. There have always been feminists (and lesbians) but it was never a popular idea among women, before the modern era.

Blogger DonReynolds June 26, 2018 3:43 PM  

"My God is the spirit of truth incarnate. None of that is supernatural. It is instead what is most real. It depends on what you mean by pray. I don't ask God for favors, if that's what you mean."--JBP

The aviator, Charles Lindberg, reportedly said....
"I never ask God to fly the airplane...until I flew solo across the Atlantic and suspected I was lost."

Blogger DonReynolds June 26, 2018 3:54 PM  

Before the battle at the village Naseby, which broke the back of the Royalist army of Charles I, during the first English Civil War, Oliver Cromwell prayed to God....

This will be a busy day, Lord...and if I should forget thee, please do not forget me.

Blogger TM Lutas June 26, 2018 5:33 PM  

@74 of course the OT prophets wouldn't be endorsing any god other than God. They would recognize that when you replace as your highest value whatever idol catches your fancy, you've committed a terrible sin. But it's the highest value you have, the center of your internal life, that determines what deity you worship. If God's not there, you're a pagan of one stripe or another.

The location that JBP describes is correct. He's too soft to directly say that's where you place God in your life. It's a mistake and why I don't think of him as any better than a halfway house.

Where I part with Vox is that I appreciate halfway houses as having value and he does not view them as progress at all, rather seeing them as an illusion of progress that makes people think that they are improving without changing anything important.

He's not very gentle about it. This is expected behavior based on his past record. Its also how half my relatives approach the task of fraternal correction so I've grown used to it long before I ever heard of Vox Day.

@76 VD - If God is what you value most both in your words, actions, thoughts, and prayers then you are a proper follower of Christ, just like if you put Moloch in the same spot makes you a proper follower of Moloch. I think you believe that JBP would have difficulty justifying preferring the placement of God in that spot instead of Moloch. I think you're wrong.

This is testable. If I have occasion to test it by asking the man, I will. I ask you to do the same. If I am mistaken about what you believe, I'd love to hear a fairer experiment.

If this sort of approach is whoring for Jordan B Peterson, I think you have a very strange outlook on the business of prostitution. I would recommend not entering the field. I think you'd be very bad at it.

Blogger S. Thermite June 26, 2018 6:02 PM  

@TM Lucas

You comment has a strong passive-aggressive gamma stench, and you are none too smart to be putting words in out host’s mouth and talking to him like a child.

Peterson doesn’t believe in the God of the Bible the way a Christian does, nor does he believe in objective truth. His solipsistic definition of God in his tweet also does not fit how God is described in scripture, whom we’re told the demons fear, and to whom every knee shall bow. God’s “mode of being” exists independently of how much we value Him or the rightness or wrongness of our own actions.

Blogger insight June 26, 2018 7:25 PM  

*Sigh* There's that communication gap again.

Blogger insight June 26, 2018 7:27 PM  

Next time Vox you could try, idolatry (bad), God (good). Notice I didn't use any maff symbols to confuse them.

Blogger tublecane June 26, 2018 8:40 PM  

@87- "there can only be one"

There can only be one what? Vox doesn't play the "public intellectual" game. He and Peterson both write on similar subjects, but what is it you imagine they are competing to be?

Peterson isn't a blogger. He's not a fantasy novelist. He isn't putting out comic books or running a publishing house. He isn't of the alt-right, or even the right.

There's no Highlander here.

Blogger VD June 26, 2018 9:18 PM  

The location that JBP describes is correct.

No, it is not. It is not even close to correct.

Where I part with Vox is that I appreciate halfway houses as having value and he does not view them as progress at all, rather seeing them as an illusion of progress that makes people think that they are improving without changing anything important.

That is not "where you part company from me". You don't even grasp that your position is factually wrong. People do not change fundamental positions gradually over time. They tend to have sudden awakenings that completely alter their perspective. Halfway houses are an illusion of progress and they viewed as meaningful by the same sort of moderate idiots that think revolution is going to come through convincing fence sitters to vote for Republicans instead of Democrats.

The worst are those who conclude that the enemy of their enemy should be their leader.

Blogger VD June 26, 2018 9:21 PM  

I think you believe that JBP would have difficulty justifying preferring the placement of God in that spot instead of Moloch. I think you're wrong.

I will not answer your questions. You are literally too stupid to communicate with me. Seriously, what is wrong with you.

"I think the position I imagine you have is wrong."

So what? You obviously don't understand what Peterson said and you don't understand why I am criticizing him.

Blogger TM Lutas June 26, 2018 9:27 PM  

@92 Well, that's clear enough. I'm looking forward to other threads where hopefully we will agree more.

Blogger Avalanche June 27, 2018 9:08 AM  

@6 "As a transitional lifeboat, I'm not sure he's all that bad."

IF he is a transitional lifeboat (and I used to think so; grateful hat tip to our Dark Lord), then, yes, he is indeed helping young men (esp.) into a life boat -- and then directing them to ROW AWAY FROM the Carpathia!!

NOT good. NOT successful. NOT helpful!
(Peterson is evil.)

Blogger TM Lutas June 27, 2018 9:50 AM  

@94 You can find me pretty much anywhere as TMLutas or TM Lutas. I won't comment further on this thread out of respect for our host (that's what @93 was about) but will discuss things privately if you *really* want to talk about this.

Blogger ant becker June 27, 2018 7:41 PM  

Milo doesn't know what he's on about. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=219&v=RdedAoqOwzQ

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