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Thursday, June 07, 2018

Mailvox: immigration and Boomers

A Man of the West shares how his attempt to introduce immigration heresy into a proud hyphenated-American family went:
I’ve been a reader of your blog and viewer of your videos for some time now, but I’ll cut to the chase rather than linger in my own backstory. An hour ago I was on the phone with my parents that live on the opposite side of the country (dad is a boomer, mom is early gen-x) and the conversation quickly turned to politics and history as it always does.They are Reagan-era right-wing conservatives. I  wouldn’t consider them neocons, but tomato tomAHto at this point. Gradually the topic transformed into immigration being more detrimental to a nation than warfare. As with any historical discussion with a boomer, the subject quickly returned to exclusively America. So I introduced to him the idea that even the Ellis Island immigrants, legal as they may have been, were a net negative to the American nation and culture.

Now, in an Italian/Irish immigrant family, to say something like this is sacrilege. But that’s when I could tell I was getting somewhere, because my dad started spewing post-modernist, globalist, pro-Babel propaganda like the Littlest Chickenhawk on a week-long soy bender. He even tried to drag out some JBP quotes until I dropped the “he authored a 2015 UN Development Panel report” on him. Then came the stuff I had heard him slip into past conversations, like “culture is always changing” and “no culture remains the same. History shows a constant fluctuation of cultures”. These always seemed like wishy-washy public-education level slogans parroted to give the illusion of sounding like you are well-versed in a wide scope of history. But this time I wasn’t tolerating it.

I’m not going to waste your time with a play-by-play review of the whole argument, but in the end I calmly told him “You are so focused on the microcosm that you cannot see the macrocosmic implications of the Tower-of-Babel agenda that you are supporting, and you are attempting to excuse your fear of the duty and suffering required to fight for Christianity, Western Civilization, Aristotelian rationality, and Truth by capitulating to this idiotic idea that ‘cultures will always change’. It is a lie to cover up a fear, and it is rationalizing surrender.”

Any advice on teaching an old dog new tricks?
Just keep standing calmly, confidently, and respectfully by the truth. Don't meet anger with anger, just keep calling out the falsehoods and deceptions as they are presented to you. As the reader has already observed, he's over the target and his father is already in a state of cognitive dissonance. The trick is to avoid making the correct path out of that dissonance more unpleasant than a) it has to be and b) than the alternative of full delusion.

A Reagan conservative is halfway there. But it's not unknown for them to retreat into liberalism, even SJWism, simply because the pain of the truth is too great for their soft Boomer sensibilities. So, it's not wise to punch them in the mouth no matter how much nonsense they spew in their intellectual flailing about.

You will know they have been convicted of the truth, even if they haven't accepted it yet, when they desperately try to change the subject to you, your motivations, and your shortcomings. Don't take the bait, just calmly ask, "What does that have to do with 20th century immigration and its consequences?" and steer them back to the subject they are now trying to avoid addressing.

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115 Comments:

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 07, 2018 11:04 AM  

As a late Boomer, let me tell you the indoctrination may well be too deep to overcome.

The good news is, as a Boomer, his take on the issue is becoming less and less relevant.

Blogger sysadmn June 07, 2018 11:22 AM  

Then came the stuff I had heard him slip into past conversations, like “culture is always changing” and “no culture remains the same. History shows a constant fluctuation of cultures”.

Dad, I agree. Which is why we must be very cognizant of the people we allow into this country. They will change our culture. We have an opportunity to determine whether we will reinforce the values that created Western, that is, Christian civilization, or undermine it.

Blogger Mark Stoval June 07, 2018 11:26 AM  

As a child in grade school in the deep south in the early 60s, we were told about the wonderful "melting pot" that was the USA in public school. Most kids in my school had some connection with the Navy, and the rest were working class kids. Conservatives, all. Yet there was that "can't we all just get along" crap about a melting pot.

That melting pot "don't be racist" crap has been pounded into everyone's head ever since. Boomers did not start that --- I was not taught by boomers.

We must fight the biased views of most Americans that they have, carry around, and don't even really know how they got those views. Various tribes are different and there is no damn melting pot that is working.

God created the nations. Argue with God if you don't like it.

Blogger Peaceful Poster June 07, 2018 11:33 AM  

(((Culture))) is always changing.

Blogger Weouro June 07, 2018 11:36 AM  

"The trick is to avoid making the correct path out of that dissonance more unpleasant than a) it has to be and b) than the alternative of full delusion."

Persuasion 101. It can be tempting if you've been somewhat formed by Internet debate/discussion to try crushing someone in real life discussion. It's normally a bad idea.

Blogger Crew June 07, 2018 11:45 AM  

Re: culture is always changing

That is only the superficial aspects of the culture, and they do change from generation to generation.

Point out that a certain (((ethny))) tried to eliminate Christianity in Russia but it persisted and seems very strong today.

They always try to point to one aspect of a topic and claim that it applies to the whole.

Blogger widlast washere June 07, 2018 11:48 AM  

When you import "people" you import their cultures and bad habits along with them. I fail to see why this is SO DAMN HARD to understand. If you want Chinese and bad English written all over all the signage and people releaving themselves in the streets and all over the shrubbery, then go ahead and import peasant Chinese, because that is what they do at home, and are sure to bring it with them. If you want folks with no respect for property rights (thieves) then import latinos and sub-Saharan Africans, because that's how they are at home.
If you want to live eyeball deep in filth, then import filth. Otherwise leave them where they are.

Blogger pyrrhus June 07, 2018 11:54 AM  

Well played...Now be supportive of your father on his long road to recovery from Globalist propaganda..

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 07, 2018 11:55 AM  

Asking them to prove their points of virtue signaling is touchy.

Blogger insight June 07, 2018 11:57 AM  

Carbyne is more malleable than the human psyche... when it come to truth that is.

Blogger kurt9 June 07, 2018 12:04 PM  

Ethnicity and culture are proxies for cognitive ability and executive function.

Blogger VFM #7634 June 07, 2018 12:09 PM  

"Now, in an Italian/Irish immigrant family, to say something like this is sacrilege."

It's weird how you have this, then OTOH those of these ethnic-Catholic Outer-Hajnal types who were registered Republicans were also more likely to jump on the Trump Train than support cucks like Cruz or Rubio.

Blogger Crush Limbraw June 07, 2018 12:09 PM  

“You are so focused on the microcosm that you cannot see the macrocosmic implications......" - when it becomes personal, their ability to see the larger picture becomes slim or none.
Had a discussion with an in-law last week who is a retired government employee - the virtue signaling was stifling - the topic was not him to begin with, but that's where ut ended.

Blogger S1AL June 07, 2018 12:13 PM  

"It's weird how you have this, then OTOH those of these ethnic-Catholic Outer-Hajnal types who were registered Republicans were also more likely to jump on the Trump Train than support cucks like Cruz or Rubio."

For some people, saying things like "Italian family" is like saying "I was born in (insert American state/city)". It's not meaningful. For others it's actually meaningful, and more relevant to them than being American.

Blogger Hen June 07, 2018 12:15 PM  

Here's an attaboy for the guy who wrote you, VD. Splendid job!

Blogger Longtime Lurker June 07, 2018 12:25 PM  

Older folk with clear ancestral connections to Heritage America are more likely to grasp the situation at the intuitive level than those who don't.

Blogger James Dixon June 07, 2018 12:26 PM  

> when it becomes personal, their ability to see the larger picture becomes slim or none.

I.E, the "what about me" effect. It's a problem for everyone. It takes a lot of intellectual rigor to avoid it, and even the best fail on occasion.

Blogger haus frau June 07, 2018 12:28 PM  

If he moved to germany, got citizenship, and lived their for 30 years would he then be every bit as german as any german who can trace their ancestry back 1000 in germany? No, of course not. He will understand this intuitively but "america is different" somehow. No, it really isnt. He knows that the country we have now is nothing like the one he grew up in. Not all cultural change is equal.

Blogger Unknown June 07, 2018 12:40 PM  

Almost everything about that letter was a crock. First, the premise that his parents were Reagan Conservatives was likely wrong to start with. In 1980, few boomers I knew were enthusiastic about Reagan - most had no idea about how New Left had hijacked the Dems in '72, and thought the party was still about the "economic little guy." If not, they voted Anderson. Second, Italians are almost never squishy about immigration. Boomer Itals saw their grandparents do everything possible to copy the WASPS (my immigrant grandfather prohibited Italian in the house), and have a visceral disgust for blacks and arabs. The most hardcore immigration enthusiasts by far are the millenials. Jeez.

Blogger Man of The West June 07, 2018 12:42 PM  

After sleeping on it, then reading everyone’s responses (grazie), the problem I’m facing is an effect of one of two possible causes. Either my first hypothesis is correct, that my dad is excusing his cultural capitulation by subscribing to post-modernist doctrine. Or, he is genuinely incapable of comprehending that cultural/national destruction is a negative. The latter cause stemming from either miscommunication between IQ deviations (he is highly intelligent, but stupid is as stupid does) or 60 years of globalist indoctrination. His cognitive dissonance must be caused by one of those two explanations, fear or incompetence. It won’t be easy for me to accept the former.

Blogger Orthodox June 07, 2018 12:55 PM  

It is a lie to cover up a fear, and it is rationalizing surrender.

I think this is the appropriate approach. Culture always changes, this is true to some degree, but we have a right to determine how it changes. It is surrender to give up and say we can't do anything about immigration, can't decide who comes in, can't decide if and how they assimilate.

My father is not a hyphenated American, not a Boomer and closer to Pat Buchanan on immigration and foreign policy, but when discussing Asian and Hispanic immigrants (the latter first gen only) willing to work for less and live crammed in houses, driving up real estate, he says things like, "Well if they want it more, they deserve it." I wasn't getting anywhere with economic arguments, so I said, "Fine, but then when all of them vote to repeal the 2nd Amendment, don't complain about it." A lot of people haven't thought about it or heard the arguments, they have an almost entirely economic view of immigration and ignore the social, cultural and political impact.

Blogger Solaire Of Astora June 07, 2018 12:57 PM  

@19

My neighbor is an immigrant from Italy who told me America is a nation of immigrants. Of course he'll move back once this place goes to hell so he's got no skin in the game, but in my experience all immigrant groups tend to be squishy on immigration because they're immigrants.

Blogger The Anti-Gnostic June 07, 2018 12:59 PM  

He will understand this intuitively but "america is different" somehow. No, it really isnt. He knows that the country we have now is nothing like the one he grew up in.

This is the enormous disconnect that people of a certain mindset cannot overcome. The American Revolution was the product of a particular people at a particular time and place. We did not discover some groundbreaking, universalist principle. We simply applied the Enlightenment philosophy and English common law as handed down to us from within the Hajnal lines. Even the French Revolution and its conception of liberty differs enormously from the American one.

Change the people, change the place.

Blogger Bufface June 07, 2018 1:00 PM  

So many boomers just won't make the connection between immigration and societal decline.

https://ricochet.com/524012/how-can-a-hs-graduation-ceremony-possibly-be-depressing/


Blogger allyn71 June 07, 2018 1:01 PM  

@20 Man of the West

His cognitive dissonance must be caused by one of those two explanations, fear or incompetence.

Can't speak to yours but in my father's case (a poster child for the boomer's if ever there was one) it falls much closer to the incompetence realm. To be honest his boomer narcissism doesn't allow him to see the damage that has been done and his role in it. It also extinguishes any tendency for introspection.

I suspect the cognitive dissonance your father is experiencing along with my father and many other boomers I meet is caused by them not being able to reconcile the terrible world they have created by how totally awesome, cool, and important they are. Since they can't get through that and retain their identity they just don't think about it and avoid facing reality like a plague.

Blogger DonReynolds June 07, 2018 1:03 PM  

"Any advice on teaching an old dog new tricks?"

I have never been one to believe that the best way to learn to swim was to be tossed into the deep end of the pool. It is simply too costly and they may later avoid water altogether. Even nearly drowning can be a traumatic experience.

For dealing with anyone with ideological differences, I do not find that beating them over the head with your own conclusions very convincing. They will simply counter with their own conclusions, often the very opposite. To you, it seems to save time to just cut to the chase....forget the argument, just hit them with the punchline. I have never found that effective at anything except pissing people off and shutting down the convo.

A better approach, in my experience, is to base your argument on the Truth...you know....FACTS. There will be no need for you to connect the dots, just fix the dots as immovable. Once the dots are in place, they may try that combination (at some point). What facts? The same facts that you used to come to the same conclusion they will. If they do not use logic and reason, they will never organize the facts into any independent conclusion anyway.

This is why the Left always loses the argument. They have no facts that support their conclusion, so they rely instead on imaginary "evil intent" and reassuring feelings to re-arrive at the same Marxian nonsense. Their conclusions are fixed as given and their twisted interpretation of the news always ends with the same Leftist punchline. That is why they will lose every time and for the same reason they spend half their time trying to shut down ANY discussion. After all, that is "hate speech".

Blogger The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey June 07, 2018 1:03 PM  

Man of the West, maybe point him to The Curley Effect paper from Harvard. It breaks down the history, many of the motivations and also the negative effects of shaping an electorate along ethnic lines in the United States. The Curley effect was named after James Curley, the long time Irish mayor of Boston, who intentionally pursued a policy of driving the yankees out of Boston and replacing them with new Irish immigrants. He was quite successful, at a great cost to everybody else.

For a case that shows how bad of disaster it is when these policies are pursued to their logical conclusion, the example of Detroit is offered and explored. That's where it leads. You too can have your own Dalgren-esque dystopia if you try!

https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/glaeser/files/curley_effect_1.pdf

Blogger VFM #7634 June 07, 2018 1:04 PM  

@20 Man of the West

If your family has been historically Catholic -- which I'm guessing based on your being "Irish-Italian" -- I'd blame the SJW revolution known as the Second Vatican Council. Before that, Catholic nationalists were quite common, and they were quite immune to white guilt and other Marxist crap... after that, it's been all globalism up and down the line.

Blogger Solaire Of Astora June 07, 2018 1:07 PM  

@21

Is there a name for that kind of one dimensional analysis? I've noticed it with regards to immigration but also other issues as well. It's like their minds can only handle one single cause and effect chain at a time. It's almost as if their working memory is so limited they are physically incapable of comprehending issues with multiple consequences. I've noticed this many times but have no idea if it has a name. What's even stranger is I've seen people be able to understand second order effects like the effect of minimum wage on employment, which indicates they can reason into a line of logic to some degree, meaning they have some depth but have a kind of tunnel vision.

Blogger VFM #7634 June 07, 2018 1:11 PM  

Older folk with clear ancestral connections to Heritage America are more likely to grasp the situation at the intuitive level than those who don't.

@16 Longtime Lurker

Very possible.

Although then there are personages like Sen. Tammy Duckworth (D-IL), who has an American father and Thai mother but has gone full anti-American.

From what I've observed, it looks like you can be a partial heritage-American so long as the rest of you is European, with maybe a bit of American Indian or East Asian.

African blood, by contrast, is toxic -- it guarantees a Marxist. The Jim Crow Southerners were correct about the one-drop rule.

And Italians do count as "European" despite their Middle Eastern appearance because they are still heirs of the Greco-Roman legacy and are historically Christian. Hispanics only do insofar as they have Spanish blood, and NO African background.

Blogger James Dixon June 07, 2018 1:14 PM  

> In 1980, few boomers I knew were enthusiastic about Reagan

80%+ of the boomers I knew in college supported him.

Blogger Ingot9455 June 07, 2018 1:23 PM  

Ask him if he watched the Black Panther movie. Even the Wakandans knew that refugees and immigrants will bring their problems with them.

And heck, in Infinity War the Wakandans had a big beautiful wall that freaking cut people's arms off.

Blogger Peaceful Poster June 07, 2018 1:25 PM  

The pillars upon which Western culture is based never change.

1) Christianity
2) Graeco-Roman tradition
3) European races

Blogger DonReynolds June 07, 2018 1:27 PM  

James Dixon wrote:> In 1980, few boomers I knew were enthusiastic about Reagan

80%+ of the boomers I knew in college supported him.


Totally agree.
Exactly who does anyone suppose voted for Reagan in 1980? Very possibly, Reagan was the FIRST president elected by "Boomers". I was still under 30 at the time. After four very long years of Carter Liberalism, the country was desperate for a new conservative direction.

Blogger Mark Stoval June 07, 2018 1:31 PM  

James Dixon wrote:> In 1980, few boomers I knew were enthusiastic about Reagan

80%+ of the boomers I knew in college supported him.


I have always lived in the deep south. All the boomers I knew were for Reagan. We were all right wingers even before we knew what that meant.

When the Democrats were perceived as being conservative and pro-white southerners were Democrats. (the solid south) But it was Nixon who taught us that the Republicans were for the white people or at least not a bunch of damn liberals. They called it his "southern strategy".

Real southerners have always hated the socialists in the Democratic party. I just wish they also hated the RINOs just as much.

There trouble with a lot of folks is they don't know what happened back then and don't care; they just go with myth. The boomers were not all damn hippies.

Blogger insight June 07, 2018 1:42 PM  

"A Reagan conservative is halfway there. But it's not unknown for them to retreat into liberalism, even SJWism, simply because the pain of the truth is too great for their soft Boomer sensibilities."

Its always extremely amusing to read Vox's blog writings about certain groups then they show up AND DO EXACTLY the characterization/generalization of which he just wrote.

Blogger Orthodox June 07, 2018 1:48 PM  

Something to keep in mind is that many Boomers exist in a cultural bubble. They watch Fox News and Fox looks like 1970s America with a few token minorities. Prime time TV aimed at older Boomers looks very white relative to what is mainstream. It still looks like TV from the 70s, 80s and 90s. There are lots of old shows on cable and classic movies allowing them to totally avoid cultural changes.

You can do some redpilling by mentioning the racial advertising because that is changing more than their shows. Another is, if they're sheltered, to take them someplace that is extremely diverse. Someone above linked to a HS graduation. That will shock a lot of Boomers because when they went to HS, it might have been almost 100% white. Now it's minority white, half in spanish, and clearly segregated. Visits to places like NYC can shock, even for former natives. Neighborhoods that used to be Italian and Jewish are now Chinese and Muslim.

Blogger AaMcavoy June 07, 2018 1:48 PM  

haus frau wrote:If he moved to germany, got citizenship, and lived their for 30 years would he then be every bit as german as any german who can trace their ancestry back 1000 in germany? No, of course not. He will understand this intuitively but "america is different" somehow. No, it really isnt. He knows that the country we have now is nothing like the one he grew up in. Not all cultural change is equal.

Cuckservatives go in circles when you ask, "So if being American isn't about your ancestry, like Germans, what is it that makes someone an American?"

"It's about loving freedom and letting everyone enjoy their rights."

"So are all those Democrats that want to take your guns and make you bake gay cakes American? Are communists allowed to vote, hold office, serve on a jury?"

Usually they switch and say, "Americans can be whoever they want and believe whatever they want."

"So being American isn't about your ancestry and isn't about what you believe. Then what is it?"

Blogger Orthodox June 07, 2018 1:52 PM  

Although then there are personages like Sen. Tammy Duckworth (D-IL), who has an American father and Thai mother but has gone full anti-American.

There's a very clear line between Cold War and post-Cold War immigrants. Since immigration has been rising, the post-communists are outnumbering them. Also time: 1965 to 1990 is 25 years. It's now 28 years from 1990. There was a fight in Virginia a few years ago, the older Vietnamese had the South Vietnam flag represent the country in schools, and there was a fight to change it to the current flag. Older immigrant groups who are pro-American and anti-communist are getting politically wiped out by mass immigration and identity politics.

Blogger Johnny June 07, 2018 1:57 PM  

@21
@29

"Well if they want it more, they deserve it."

This is confusing the individual with the group. Your dear old dad won't think that way if the "they" become a majority and it no longer matters how much he wants "it." Like it or not it often comes down to choosing sides.

As for logic, a lot of people seem to simply not want to think. Or maybe they just can't. That attitude will produce binary thinking, or in math, univariate thinking. They discover some one thing and then shut the brain down, don't want to think about it any more.

Blogger Man of The West June 07, 2018 2:22 PM  

Voting Reagan isn’t the problem. Boomers continuing the Reaganism and worshipping his positions nearly 40 years later is the problem with Reaganite boomers. They treat the Reagan Library like a church, and the church like a senile relative you visit out of obligation on holidays.

Blogger tublecane June 07, 2018 2:37 PM  

@12- Trump is a civic nationalist, don't forget. They're not necessarily on the train for the same reason as you. They could be nothing more than 90s Clinton Democrats left behind by SJWs.

Blogger Longtime Lurker June 07, 2018 3:26 PM  

@30: "From what I've observed, it looks like you can be a partial heritage-American so long as the rest of you is European, with maybe a bit of American Indian or East Asian."

I concur. In my observation, the newer "immigrant" contribution will tend to dominate personal identity until about the third generation, assuming dilution of the new immigrant influence as descendants intermarry with locals.

And that observation only pertains to the mixture of people from European ethnic groups. The assimilation of European groups in the U.S. was a difficult one, to say the least. People forget: The prohibition on immigration imposed in the 1920s was not done for light or trivial reasons.

Blogger Cloom Glue June 07, 2018 3:36 PM  

I agree with @26. Several memorized facts go a long way.

I mentioned the children of foreigners are three times more likely to commit a crime. That friend simply agreed. I was surprised she did. She must know criminal young people in her extended family.

To a neighbour, I told the story about British failure at multi-culturalism in 1880s South America, how it degenerated into communism and near civil war blacks/Indians. That hit my third generation, white, Christian Canadian: He suddenly loudly blurted out a defence of Muslims in Canada. His reaction was emotional and off-topic. It was weird. I think he thought I was talking about muslim Indians coming to Canada that did not work out. Hahaha, it won't.

His Iraqi-born wife (Roman Catholic) was telling me about the lack of children in her extended family. I mentioned that if they had their own homogeneous culture and their own ethnic nation, then they would have had children. She agreed and said the foreigners are alarmed "more than one way" is accepted here. They find it disturbing. They prefer a homogeneous culture. That is a winning fact.

Blogger TroubleSpeak June 07, 2018 3:51 PM  

Ask your father if he believes his ancestors immigrated to the US live among Americans in a recognizably American culture or if they were simply economic locusts hoping to exploit American prosperity with no regards for the local culture.

If he believes the former, then wouldn't it make more sense to agressively protect the culture that motivated his family to abandon their homeland to come here in the first place? As for the latter, it is obviously the more unpleasant belief as it is a concession to your arguments.

If he dodges, tell him you believe that your ancestors saw something special and unique in America and the people that built it when they decided to move here, and that it certainly wasn't any policy of open borders and some random culture that they ended up where they are. They would not support more immigration because they would not want to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

Blogger freddie_mac June 07, 2018 3:59 PM  

@7 widlast washere
When you import "people" you import their cultures and bad habits along with them.

A small number of immigrants, widely dispersed, is forced to conform by the dominant culture and have a minimal impact on the native culture. But, when immigrants group together and create ethnic enclaves, then they have no reason to assimilate.

Whenever the discussion turns to immigration and its impact on the native population, I always think of "cream in the coffee." Just a drop of cream, and you've barely even changed the cup of black coffee; add 1/4 cup, and the change is much more noticeable; half a cup, and you're closer to coffee-flavored cream. But, we're told that a cup of black coffee is the same thing as a latte, right?

Blogger Mr Darcy June 07, 2018 4:02 PM  

@ #3 Mark Stoval: Born in 1955 in the Deep South. Your and my experiences in school could not have been more different. My school had larger portraits of Gen. Lee and Pres. G Washington in EVERY classroom. "Melting pot" was something I heard on TV as a teenager. Every desk in my school buildings for 10 out of 12 yrs had an inkwell and was bolted to the floor. I never went to an air conditioned school. We learned grammar and history. I still don't know exactly what "social studies" and "language arts" is or are. My guess is "nothing." Today, my grandchildren are in public schools and although they are exposed to the mysteries of "language arts" and "social studies," they are never told about the melting pot or any other such drivel. I was graduated in 1973 from the third-oldest public school in America, est. 1783 by the Revolution. Compulsory ROTC, as it was established to train militia officers. Still in operation, although now mostly colored chillum go there, and they no longer study Latin or Greek or Classical Civilization or physics as we were compelled to do. They don't make Miss Mc Auliffes anymore--you're right about that. Today, "teachers" have "degrees" in "education." But still, neither I, nor my children, nor my grandchildren were or are subjected to SJW BS. The "boomers" that VD readers so detest are invariably Yankees. Southerners even today are not (yet) completely insane.

Blogger Frank Lee June 07, 2018 4:11 PM  

Really? You really want to argue Italian immigration in the early 1900's was a mistake?

Just because the progressives lie about how being kind and supportive to immigrants is "what America is all about" doesn't mean those opposed to insane immigration policies should likewise try to rewrite American history until it is unrecognizable from reality.

Is it possible the first few boat loads of English settlers who arrived in America, after abandoning Marxism and strictly enforcing boarders, if they breed like rabbits that America would be a more beautiful cohesive Christian country? Maybe.

Or, maybe Spain/Mexico would have extended it's dominance North. Maybe there never would have been enough money to buy the French or Russians out.

Regardless of how you feel about immigration, there never was a period of time in America's history where there weren't massive influxes of foreigners. Starting with the African slave trade. Then massive German immigration, then Irish, then Chinese, Japanese and Italian, Eastern European Jews, and all the while plenty of Mexicans and Latin Americans.

I'm not saying all that was good, but that was the reality.

But this what progressives don't admit to. All that immigration was about EXPLOITING the immigrants. Basically getting slave labor. Most immigrates were treated terribly and put up with it because the rest of the world was even worse.

AND, in every case native Americans (including the children of past immigrants) complained like hell and kept shutting down big immigrations (banning Asians, cutting numbers of Italians, etc. etc.). There was never a period of time where the general public welcomed it. It was pushed by corrupt business (and criminal) interests looking for cheap labor to exploit. Whatever is good and great about America (winning WWI and WWII, global economic dominance) is impossible to separate from cheap labor to exploit. It's total speculation what might have happened if boarders were closed back in 1880, 1910, 1930 or whatever. Likely we wouldn't have had the industrial base to defeat Germany.

What is currently insane about te immigration 2000AD+, is that everything is turned around. Now it's the immigrants that are exploiting America, not the other way around. They come in and get massive government handouts, much of which they send out of the US to 3 world countries and then legal aid to bring in their old parents and extended family (who have no intention of working for slave wages).

On top of that, immigrants from really corrupt countries are actually pretty well educated and great at suing for more services, kickbacks, and are tied into various criminal enterprises. Not to mention, the USA is wasting tons of money internationally supporting the rest of the world. Add to that that the US abandoned its own blue collar workers and shipped its industrial base into foreign countries.

The issue is not whether or not Chinese workers helped America by building the transcontinental railroad. They did. Or whether poor Italians picked a lot of grapes and created the wine industry in California. They did. But the point is they were exploited and poorly paid and every decade or so the general public said, enough already. Stop the flow of them. (And also kick them out, as we did with the Chinese and the Mexicans in the 1930s.)

No need to rewrite history to acknowledge that what is going on today is just crazy. Immigrants coming in expecting free college educations (and getting it) sick immigrants coming to get medical care (and getting it) and vast criminal enterprises managing it all with the help of snowflake social justice warriors who are paid by the US government tell everyone it not only shouldn't end, but it should get bigger.

Let's be clear about the real fight and not argue over an imagined past. Without the Italians we wouldn't have the Godfather movies. And I wouldn't want an America without that.

Blogger Hausman June 07, 2018 4:26 PM  

It's getting easy to spot these weaponized autists with the phrases they pick up from you. "Aristotelian rationality", "dyscivic", "ye cats". It's good to have a legacy.

Blogger Lovekraft June 07, 2018 4:32 PM  

Mark 8:36 comes to mind when I think of how attached these old farts are to some tenuous ideal.

"What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul?"

Sure, it could be argued that their hearts are in the right place, but this is only due to being massively programmed by calculated media.

Blogger Lovekraft June 07, 2018 4:48 PM  

Vox: the left used to argue that jihad (soft and hard) is justified 'because the west keeps invading their lands.'

I've noticed that this tired argument has dropped away over the past year. Never hear it anymore. Could it be that the muslims have achieved their goals (re caliphatization), or some other reason? Also, why is it rare to hear our side arguing the muslims are colonizers?

Blogger VFM #7634 June 07, 2018 4:49 PM  

"and all the while plenty of Mexicans and Latin Americans."

@48 Frank Lee
You forget that a hundred years ago, Mexico had only as many people as Guatemala does today.

All the other groups you mention are Christian Europeans. Except (((them))), of course, and they're proving to be quite problematic, so to speak.

Blogger Mister Excitement June 07, 2018 4:50 PM  

My experience with attempting to red pill Boomers is that it's mostly just for fun. Actually red pilling a Boomer is nigh impossible. Their mindset and belief system is completely entrenched in Classical Liberalism and Egalitarianism. Their formative years were in the 1950s and 60s. That's their frame of reference.

It's not that Boomers are in favor of a tidal wave of 3rd World immigrants, it's just that they have no clue that it's even happening. They are almost completely disconnected to the state of modern America. (Again, just my experience)

I try to have red pill conversations with my Boomer mother. It's like talking to a child. They don't even understand the definitions of most of the terms like "1965 Immigration Act" or "3rd World."

They are also extremely trusting of authority. Anything the media or government says, they swallow whole. I was harassing my Boomer mom a few weeks ago about her Mexican landscaper (he has to go back, he doesn't belong here, he's not one of us, etc) and she got frustrated and said, "He's here legally." Of course she got that "Here Legally" rhetoric from the media.

I was talking to my mother last night about the "Deep State." She had never even heard the term before. She watches Foxnews all the time.

Just have fun with it and don't get your hopes up.

Blogger VFM #7634 June 07, 2018 4:55 PM  

His Iraqi-born wife (Roman Catholic) was telling me about the lack of children in her extended family. I mentioned that if they had their own homogeneous culture and their own ethnic nation, then they would have had children.

@44 Cloom Glue
Not necessarily. Italy, Spain, Portugal, and Malta have TFRs down around one child per woman. Middle Eastern Catholics are likely very similar to these Southern Europeans. Put all the blame on Vatican II.

Blogger haus frau June 07, 2018 4:58 PM  

@38 ""So are all those Democrats that want to take your guns and make you bake gay cakes American? Are communists allowed to vote, hold office, serve on a jury?"

I've had this exact conversation with my older sister who's husband is Cuban and, of course, her in-laws. I asked her if America is an proposition and not a nation of people like any other then what happens to people like Hillary Clinton who is a heretic against her definition of that proposition? That's right, nothing. She is adamant that her in-laws, with their heavy accents are every bit as American as our family. I find this statement very insulting. We can trace our roots back 300 years in this land to Ebenezer Lambert born in Salem, Massachusetts in 1717 and to the northeastern Indian tribes. She ended the conversation. She didn't like where it was going when she was cornered about her in-laws deep concern over Cuban politics, something not shared by Americans who are nothing but American. My sister supports severe immigration restrictions but won't allow that her personal immigrants are part of the problem. I like my brother-in-law and his family but hey, its not about just him. The melting pot and proposition nation is a huge emotional investment for a lot of people. I know this, but the mental gymnastics people go through to miss the obvious conclusion is mind numbing.

Blogger pyrrhus June 07, 2018 4:59 PM  

"Really? You really want to argue Italian immigration in the early 1900's was a mistake?"

Yes, especially since most of the IT immigrants were from southern Italy, and therefore of low intelligence. Cousin marriage remains common in the south of Italy and Sicily.

Blogger Jamie-R June 07, 2018 5:13 PM  

Conservative Boomer Takes in today's age are fine parody most of the time. I'm like, "Yeah sure classical liberalism has its merits & I still have a romantic disposition to them, but I was in my 20s you've always been old & having those views." After awhile the penny's gotta drop why lots of people aren't rationally promoting those ideas & it comes back to the media & the education system, & that's where the agendas to reject it begin. It should stoke anyone's curiosity why good ideas steeped in Anglo philosophical history aren't being embraced by the establishment anymore.

Blogger VD June 07, 2018 5:28 PM  

You really want to argue Italian immigration in the early 1900's was a mistake?

There is nothing to argue about. It was.

Blogger Frank Lee June 07, 2018 5:38 PM  

VFM #7634 wrote:"and all the while plenty of Mexicans and Latin Americans."

@48 Frank Lee

You forget that a hundred years ago, Mexico had only as many people as Guatemala does today.

All the other groups you mention are Christian Europeans. Except (((them))), of course, and they're proving to be quite problematic, so to speak.


No, I don't forget that. Obviously Mexico, and many other countries, had smaller populations than today. Nor do I forget that aggressive efforts were made to drive Mexicans out of California and Texas over decades and centuries. Nor do am I arguing that there isn't a huge difference between how European Christians assimilate compared to other groups.

All I argue is that people should be accurate about American history. And there has never been a time in American history where there wasn't a back and forth pendulum of immigration battles. Just as progressives are lying when they say America welcomed immigrants, the alt-right is fooling itself if it imagines that anything resembling modern day America could have happened without them. That's just reality. Doesn't mean we need to ship over Syria refuges. But it's kind of pointless to argue about whether or not it was a good thing that hundreds of thousands of Italians came in 100 years ago.

Blogger freddie_mac June 07, 2018 5:48 PM  

@48 Frank Lee
Really? You really want to argue Italian immigration in the early 1900's was a mistake?

Keep in mind that the best and the brightest, the real go-getters, are the ones who emigrate from their home countries. So what would Italy or Ireland look like today if those populations had stayed home and used that energy to improve their home countries?

Blogger Frank Lee June 07, 2018 5:55 PM  

VD wrote:You really want to argue Italian immigration in the early 1900's was a mistake?

There is nothing to argue about. It was.


How do you arrive at such a conclusion?

You erase the four million Italians that came in from 1880 to 1924 and you assume that America would be a better place today?

Kind of like arguing that if we spent more effort on Zeppelin technology in the 1920's life would be great today. Interesting theory. Nothing to base it on.

Blogger Man of The West June 07, 2018 6:00 PM  

Funny how the only pro-immigration arguments are “they were our slave labor force” or “they gave us good food and stuff”. The former is an argument for the immigrants NOT to come here. And the latter is an admission that one prefers bread & circuses over the preservation of their own culture.

Blogger Mark Stoval June 07, 2018 6:00 PM  

"Keep in mind that the best and the brightest, the real go-getters, are the ones who emigrate from their home countries."

Do we really know this? If so, how do we know this?

Sounds plausible to me and I want to believe it; but do we really know that?

Blogger Daniel June 07, 2018 6:02 PM  

>>Almost everything about that letter was a crock. First, the premise that his parents were Reagan Conservatives was likely wrong to start with. In 1980, few boomers I knew were enthusiastic about Reagan - most had no idea about how New Left had hijacked the Dems in '72, and thought the party was still about the "economic little guy." If not, they voted Anderson. Second, Italians are almost never squishy about immigration. Boomer Itals saw their grandparents do everything possible to copy the WASPS (my immigrant grandfather prohibited Italian in the house), and have a visceral disgust for blacks and arabs. The most hardcore immigration enthusiasts by far are the millenials. Jeez.<<

Wrong, at least in parts. I was there, Reagan voter, ethnic white - Reagan Democrat - didn't give a damn about immigration one way or the other. Now I'm "woke", have been for decades, actually. I see the light. Know hope.

Blogger Man of The West June 07, 2018 6:05 PM  

As a rare Florentine Northern Italian immigrant descendant, I can attest that this is completely factually correct. The Sicilians and Calabrians are low IQ, and the Neopolitans are criminals.

Blogger Man of The West June 07, 2018 6:09 PM  

You are correct in that modern day America would not have happened without mass immigration. And modern day America is an absolutely corrupt and bankrupt (both morally and financially) shadow of its pre-immigration self in terms of freedoms, liberties, and values. Thanks immigrants.

Blogger VD June 07, 2018 6:10 PM  

How do you arrive at such a conclusion?

I have lived in both the USA and Italy. I speak both English and Italian. I understand the differences between the cultures and subcultures. The Italian immigrants did not improve America. They adulterated and transformed it, just like four million Americans moving to Italy would not improve Italy.

You erase the four million Italians that came in from 1880 to 1924 and you assume that America would be a better place today?

Without question. Lose the Jewish and the Irish immigrants as well and the USA would be a) vastly better and b) still 90 percent white.

Blogger VD June 07, 2018 6:11 PM  

the alt-right is fooling itself if it imagines that anything resembling modern day America could have happened without them.

We don't think that. We think the modern day United States is a catastrophe and a civil war waiting to explode.

Blogger rumpole5 June 07, 2018 6:12 PM  

Historically, the "melting pot" was a nesessary evil. Without the affordable labor the continent would have remained a howling wilderness. African labor was also necesssry because white men could not thrivd in a hot climate like the American South. That was then, this is now. The avalibility of technology to leverage the labor we have means that we do not have to endure the social disruption caused by immigration. I am a Boomer and I assure you that I understand that.

Blogger Man of The West June 07, 2018 6:12 PM  

I keep trying to explain that unintended consequence to neo-Babelists. If other cultures are so wonderful, why wouldn’t you want the most capable members of those cultures to remain there? Stripping a nation of its best is a means of destroying it, not helping it.

Blogger Brick Hardslab June 07, 2018 6:16 PM  

The go getters are the guys willing to tame the wilderness not Ellis island shopkeepers and dishwashers. Certainly not the gimmedat locusts we have now.

Blogger Man of The West June 07, 2018 6:18 PM  

I can attest that my letter was 100% factually correct, and not “a crock”.

Blogger HoosierHillbilly June 07, 2018 6:28 PM  

@61 how do you arrive at such a conclusion?

No guido's.

I think we're done here.

Anonymous Anonymous June 07, 2018 6:48 PM  

Italians gave us anarchists and Mafia and pizza pies. Be appreciative goyim!

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey June 07, 2018 6:51 PM  

@Mark Stoval

But it was Nixon who taught us that the Republicans were for the white people or at least not a bunch of damn liberals.

And then he... implemented anti-White racial preferences as federal government policy.

Blogger VFM #7634 June 07, 2018 6:53 PM  

Keep in mind that the best and the brightest, the real go-getters, are the ones who emigrate from their home countries. So what would Italy or Ireland look like today if those populations had stayed home and used that energy to improve their home countries?

@60 freddie_mac
In the case of the Irish, note that the United States has about 80% of the Irish gene pool... so in that case, we did get the crap end of their gene pool as well as the better end. As I suspect the crap end is more likely to remain in the cities, intermarry among themselves, and support stupid liberal Democrat policies, it may help explain VD's distaste for the Irish.

So what Brick Hardslab @71 said: "The go getters are the guys willing to tame the wilderness not Ellis island shopkeepers and dishwashers. Certainly not the gimmedat locusts we have now."

As a rare Florentine Northern Italian immigrant descendant, I can attest that this is completely factually correct. The Sicilians and Calabrians are low IQ, and the Neopolitans are criminals.

@65 Man of the West
I like to think of Italy as a miniature North America.

Anonymous Anonymous June 07, 2018 6:59 PM  

“Without question. Lose the Jewish and the Irish immigrants as well and the USA would be a) vastly better and b) still 90 percent white.”

Aye, Begorrah! Tis like a second potato famine!

Blogger Doktor Jeep June 07, 2018 7:03 PM  

You need only one examplw. The governor of New York .

Blogger Raben Wulf June 07, 2018 7:15 PM  

Has anyone ever been able to change a Boomer's mind or get them to take responsibility? I have yet to see it personally. Like SJW they seem to double down, they simply could not take the criticism or even accept a notion that is outside of their generation's concept of preservation...or rather lack there of.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey June 07, 2018 7:36 PM  

...aggressive efforts were made to drive Mexicans out of California and Texas over decades and centuries..."

Oy vey. How many errors (or instances of deliberate disingenuousness) can we spot in a mere half sentence?
1. There were no "Mexicans" prior to 1821. Your claim that efforts to drive them out lasted "centuries" is therefore nonsensical.

2. The Spanish (and, after 1821, the Mexicans) were driven out of what is now Texas, of course -- by the Comanches.

https://infogalactic.com/w/images/f/fe/Comancheria.jpg

3. The Comanche territory was settled and pacified by Americans, not by Spanish or Mexicans.

4. You frame this your assertion in such a way as to imply that somehow either the Aztecs/ Nahua (or perhaps the Mixtecs?), the Spanish, or some combination of the these were somehow indigenous to the area that is now Texas (and California). Needless to say, this is incorrect. Spain (and later Mexico) claimed these territories, but did not control them. Nor did the Aztecs before them.

The toxic mixture of false assertions and sophistry found in just part of a single sentence of one of your posts is typical of the remainder -- Worthless.

Blogger Mark Stoval June 07, 2018 7:39 PM  

@75 Francis Parker Yockey

Yes he did. Agreed.

At best when we elect a president we are voting for the lesser of two evils. Nixon build the Republican party in the south but he also did things that were not so good.

We need a populist party. We need a new populist like Pat Buchanan for after Trump.

Blogger Lovekraft June 07, 2018 7:47 PM  

@ 53: Mister Excitement

Agreed that there's no point trying to convert boomers. For me, I just send out occasional reminders to the liberals (Canadian ones) that I am onto them, in order to clearly mark 'the line' which I will defend. A truce.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey June 07, 2018 7:55 PM  

@rumpole5

Historically, the "melting pot" was a nesessary evil. Without the affordable labor the continent would have remained a howling wilderness.

You are conflating 2 very different concepts here: "immigrant" and "settler."

You might also wish to look up the origins of the "melting pot" false meme -- a 1908 play by (((Israel Zangwill))). Every. Single. Time. Mr. Zangwill was (of course) an ardent Zionist. No "melting pot" for his people...

But you are obviously correct to point out that this metaphor is even less applicable today than it ever was in the past.

Blogger Crew June 07, 2018 8:12 PM  

We think the modern day United States is a catastrophe and a civil war waiting to explode.

Just in time for Social Security to go bankrupt:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/medicares-finances-are-getting-worse-as-social-security-taps-into-fund-for-first-time-in-36-years-2018-06-05

Well, a year later than 2033, but probably makes no difference.

Most of the boomers will be dead by then and millennials will likely be pissed that there is nothing left in the pot for them what with all the money wasted on illegals etc.

Blogger Crew June 07, 2018 8:15 PM  

Historically, the "melting pot" was a nesessary evil. Without the affordable labor the continent would have remained a howling wilderness.

This is actually not true. Without the competition for jobs and the depression of wages caused by that immigration the then population or America would have been able to afford more children.

Sure, progress might have been delayed by a 20 or so years so those children could grow and enter the workforce ...

Blogger James Dixon June 07, 2018 8:53 PM  

> ...the alt-right is fooling itself if it imagines that anything resembling modern day America could have happened without them.

That's actually kind of our point.

> You erase the four million Italians that came in from 1880 to 1924 and you assume that America would be a better place today?

Absolutely.

> Without the affordable labor the continent would have remained a howling wilderness.

Not hardly. Though movement to the west and midwest would have been slower. Which might have allowed for a peaceful existence with Vox's people.

> African labor was also necesssry because white men could not thrivd in a hot climate like the American South.

BS. The British thrived everywhere they had colonies, which included tropical climes, not just subtropical ones.

> Has anyone ever been able to change a Boomer's mind or get them to take responsibility?

Since the boomers claim both my wife and myself (a claim we contest, but it is what it is), I'd have to say yes. But we're the exception that proves the rule.

> Nixon build the Republican party in the south but he also did things that were not so good.

The only good things I can say Nixon did were ending the war in Vietnam and shutting down the draft/selective service. The last of which was almost immediately restarted by Carter (fortunately, not retroactively).

Blogger tublecane June 07, 2018 9:01 PM  

@48- Your first few boatloads of Englishmen argument is disingenuous. You ought to start from when a distinct American people had formed from the English colonies.

But lets assume America need immigrants. Let's also assume that insofar as that's true-!and ONLY so far--it's a nation of immigrants. It does not follow that all immigrants are beneficial.

Nor does it address the obvious fact that not all immigrant groups were equally beneficial. For you could make the exact same argument you're making in favor of Somalis as for Italians.

Blogger tublecane June 07, 2018 9:04 PM  

@48- Likely we wouldn't have had the industrial base to defeat Germany."

Oh, poor Russia.

By the way, I've argued, devil's advocate-style, against the creation of the constitutional United States, and people have actually come out and said something like "But then we wouldn't have had the Civil War/WWII."

*That's* supposed to be a drawback?

Blogger tublecane June 07, 2018 9:24 PM  

@83- You bring up an important distinction. The men who settled the West didn't necessarily have to be immigrants. But for those who were--including my ancestors--there's a difference between frontiering and filling up pre-settled areas.

Furthermore, there's a difference between the immigrants who came in waves over the course of the 19th century and what comes to mind when we think of the Ellis Island crowd. Over and above all that, there's are questions of ethnicity, nationality, nationality, and time.

My forebearers came over starting in the 1820s and were all here by the Civil War, to my knowledge. Which means I'm not descended from Founding Stock, but I also have little attachment to the Ellis Island Myth. My people road to the Midwest on wagons.

Far as ethnicity goes, I'm from the right side of the Hajnal line. But Vox is correct to be suspicious of the Irish, who along with Jews were "latecomers to modernity" and not to be trusted. I am an Irish octaroon, so if I have to go back (cut up into various bloody chunks bound for separate countries), I can see the argument.

But I definitely don't need to go back as much as certain others.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 07, 2018 9:36 PM  

@19

"In 1980, few boomers I knew were enthusiastic about Reagan - most had no idea about how New Left had hijacked the Dems in '72,"

Small correction. The Commies took over the Democratic Party in 1968 at the Chicago Convention. It didn't show up in the 1968 candidates, but they were running things soon after the riots ended. 1972 is when that 4 years of control was expressed in the form of candidate McGovern.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 07, 2018 9:49 PM  

@31

>> In 1980, few boomers I knew were enthusiastic about Reagan

> 80%+ of the boomers I knew in college supported him.

Did you go to Purdue?

Blogger Azimus June 07, 2018 9:52 PM  

As much as I despise their inability to accept reaponsibility for their generations's travesties, the Boomers are the only group with sufficient political and economic power to make ammends for their wicked deeds. A little less than half of GenX was aborted, and it takes far too much time to red-pill the typical Millenial. They have a rome to play as Tolkien's oathbreaker army - they have the strength right now to fulfill the sacred oath to leave their children a stronger, better land than they received. But they have to hurry or the forces of globalism will start to euthanize them one way or another...

Blogger James Dixon June 07, 2018 9:58 PM  

> Did you go to Purdue?

WVU. 1976-1980.

> But they have to hurry or the forces of globalism will start to euthanize them one way or another...

The boomers will be going "Death is the new 30".

Blogger Dirk Manly June 07, 2018 10:02 PM  

@48

"Let's be clear about the real fight and not argue over an imagined past. Without the Italians we wouldn't have the Godfather movies. And I wouldn't want an America without that."

Never having had the Godfather movies is a small price to pay for not having the problems that the Italians brought here and continue to this day.

Blogger IreneAthena June 07, 2018 10:08 PM  

Vox Day, here are some questions about the claim that a genuine American Christian should've actively worked all along for immigration to the US to be limited primarily to Anglo-Saxons, that to do otherwise was to help advance Satan's plan for the planet's Babelization.

(1)Isn't the Great Commission the Christian's challenge to Satan's plan for Babelization? Jesus sent disciples to go to world's four corners to RADICALLY CHANGE CULTURES everywhere with the Gospel, turning formerly divided peoples' hearts toward each other and to God. (The Great Commission is NOT randomly throwing disparate peoples together with loosey-goosey immigration policies, I understand that.)

(2)Isn't there something universal about Christianity that transcends all other cultural elements that might otherwise cause different ethnic groups to clash? In Galatians 2:11, Paul records his severe reprimand to Peter, who hypocritically refused to eat with Gentile Christians when other Jews were watching. When Christ gave the New Covenant, laws about unclean food passed away, and more importantly, laws about unclean PEOPLE passed away, too.

(3) Italians, Frenchmen, Irish, Spanish, Germans (and the duskier types from Greece, Lebanon) -- all of them are from cultures that have been Christian for over a millennium. So where's the addendum to the Great Commission that says only Anglo-Saxons belong in North America?

(4) I absolutely do agree history teaches that different cultures thrown together will clash. The antidote used to be separation, the archetype being the destruction of the Tower of Babel. The Great Commission supersedes separation -- it teaches people how to look to Christ as the Head so they can live peacefully despite their many differences. An Alt-Right Odin-worshipper might not have any use for that ideal, but shouldn't it be a Christian's vision?

(5) And here is the question that troubles me most. The US' unwise immigration policies (including destructive foreign policies causing humanitarian crises leading to mass immigration) have thrown people together who do not share a common vision of how to live in peace. It seems counter-productive, in an attempt to defend Christians against radical threats from radical Islamists, to encourage Christians to keep at arms-length people from historically Christian cultures that are not Anglo-Saxon. Why not show the radial Islamists how it's done, English, Irish, Spanish, Catholic, Protestant, East Orthodox Christians living together in peace? Christians shooting at each other in WWI and WWII was a TERRIBLE advertisement for Jesus. Why don't Christians resurrect a "new" way from the 1st century, peace-making? It only takes 12, or so I've heard.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 07, 2018 10:13 PM  

@63

"Keep in mind that the best and the brightest, the real go-getters, are the ones who emigrate from their home countries."

This is only true when the trans-oceanic voyage has a significant possibility of a premature end in waters thousands of feet deep, there are no trans-oceanic telephone calls to be made (or they are so expensive that the ONLY time the immigrant makes one is because someone died....well, no, not even then), and there sure as hell is no international TV available by satellite dish.

Before large steam-ships ships, those who wanted an easy time wouldn't dare get on a trans-oceanic ship unless they had been conscripted into their country's navy. With the arrival of cheap intercontinental communications, they can pretend to be at home in Bombay/Mumbai, even while in Chicago.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 07, 2018 10:16 PM  

@65

"The Sicilians and Calabrians are low IQ, and the Neopolitans are criminals."

In Patton's diary, he comments that the Sicilians are the most pathetic people he has ever come across -- always squatting because they were too lazy to even reposition appropriately sized rocks to convenient locations to use as permanent stools or seats.

Blogger 罗臻 June 07, 2018 10:18 PM  

A lot of immigrants in the pre-1965 era (which goes back to the pre-1920s) returned home. I've seen some very high estimates.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 07, 2018 10:20 PM  

@76

"In the case of the Irish, note that the United States has about 80% of the Irish gene pool... so in that case, we did get the crap end of their gene pool as well as the better end. As I suspect the crap end is more likely to remain in the cities, intermarry among themselves, and support stupid liberal Democrat policies, it may help explain VD's distaste for the Irish."

Without supporting stupid liberal Democrat policies, how else can they stay drunk 14-hours/day and still keep a roof over their heads?

Blogger tublecane June 07, 2018 10:22 PM  

About the Godfather, we'd still have the first few minutes of Part II without Sicilian immigration.

Sure, it's a short film about young Vito getting killed, but it's something.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 07, 2018 10:30 PM  

@100

"As much as I despise their inability to accept reaponsibility for their generations's travesties, the Boomers are the only group with sufficient political and economic power to make ammends for their wicked deeds. A little less than half of GenX was aborted, and it takes far too much time to red-pill the typical Millenial. They have a rome to play as Tolkien's oathbreaker army - they have the strength right now to fulfill the sacred oath to leave their children a stronger, better land than they received."

What?!?!?!?! And not spend all my children's inheritance? [ /boomer ]

Blogger DonReynolds June 07, 2018 10:32 PM  

@86 James Dixon
> African labor was also necesssry because white men could not thrivd in a hot climate like the American South.

BS. The British thrived everywhere they had colonies, which included tropical climes, not just subtropical ones.

Absolutely agree.
The American South is relatively mild, compared to Egypt and India and the Sudan and Burma. Farm labor was more likely to be white in the South and they managed the heat very well. Only the few big plantations had Negro slaves. The family farm did exactly the same work. Yes, they picked a lot of cotton too.

@87 tublecane
"But lets assume America need immigrants. Let's also assume that insofar as that's true-!and ONLY so far--it's a nation of immigrants. It does not follow that all immigrants are beneficial."

No need to assume. It was a historical fact that the British colonies needed skilled labor and they were imported. Glass blowers from Poland, timber specialists from the Baltic countries, etc etc....but they were not actually immigrants. They were not citizens and they were not allowed to vote. In fact, the first labor strike in the British colonies was by Polish glass blowers in Virginia over the right to vote...which they won. It should have been possible to reserve the voting franchise for our posterity, but it did not develop that way.

Of course, significant settlements were not British at all or only became under British control later. I am especially referring to the Dutch settlements on the Hudson River and New Amsterdam (later New York). The Swedes had a successful colony that later became Delaware. The French colonized parts of Canada, that later became British, especially Quebec, but also included a number of settlements around the Great Lakes and in the Ohio River Valley. The Spanish settled some of the oldest settlements in the New World, in Florida and along the Louisiana and Texas Gulf Coast.

Nearly all of these settlements were incorporated into the British colonies before the American Revolution, when 13 of the 17 colonies broke away from the Crown.

Blogger Man of The West June 07, 2018 10:34 PM  

Regarding Italians, the north does very much need to be distinguished from the south when determining compatibility with western civilization. Take your original Italian tribes, ala Rome (sabines, etruscans, samnites, etc) and mix these with Germanics and Celtics. That’s the north. Take those same original Italian tribes and mix them with Greeks, Turks, Egyptians, and a whole host of other North African peoples. That’s the south.

The north provided Europe with the renaissance, the Ghibilline checks against the over reaches of the medieval papacy, a majority of industrial revolution innovations, and all Italian modern extravagances from Lamborghini to espresso machines to computer programming systems.

The south has provided western civilization with the mafia and organized crime, the occasional bodybuilder, pizza, and a few directors/actors.

Nearly to a man, the chain-wearing, wife beater clad, pizza parlor chef will be a southern Italian. And the well dressed IT guy at the office with big eyebrows will be a northern italian.

So this should be considered, as northern Italy is home to at least half the achievements of western civilization.

Blogger Patrick Charles June 07, 2018 10:44 PM  

VD wrote:Without question. Lose the Jewish and the Irish immigrants as well and the USA would be a) vastly better and b) still 90 percent white.
Why would the USA be better without the Irish immigrants (not trying to argue, just curious?) Is it because they tend to vote leftist/democrat?

Blogger Lazarus June 07, 2018 11:57 PM  

As much as I despise their inability to accept reaponsibility for their generations's travesties, the Boomers are the only group with sufficient political and economic power to make ammends for their wicked deeds. A little less than half of GenX was aborted, and it takes far too much time to red-pill the typical Millenial. They have a rome to play as Tolkien's oathbreaker army - they have the strength right now to fulfill the sacred oath to leave their children a stronger, better land than they received. But they have to hurry or the forces of globalism will start to euthanize them one way or another...

Purple haze all in my brain......

No , wait. I meant to say, nature will euthanize them. Globalists need not apply!

Boomers can seek atonement by refusing treatment and leaving their ill-gotten gainz to the Zyclonz.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd June 08, 2018 12:02 AM  

Yep. It's the weirdest thing.
The fussing over this boomer stuff is unsettling.
Some men defend their families, some their nations, some their religious beliefs, but the salty boomers who show up here defend....their generation.

I couldn't imagine the hell of identifying with and defending millenials. In perfectly fine with the majority of them being worthless.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd June 08, 2018 12:09 AM  

Even Derbyshire questioned whether or not whites were facing an existential crisis, as it didn't match his experience.
His perspective is similar to what you're describing, to a limited extent, even if he is a red pill founding father.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 08, 2018 1:01 AM  

@104

"Why would the USA be better without the Irish immigrants (not trying to argue, just curious?) Is it because they tend to vote leftist/democrat?"

Corrupt, drunken socialists.

Need any more reasons?

Blogger Cloom Glue June 08, 2018 7:11 AM  

@95 I think you should read the Old Testament, first five chapters at least, and not with a mind that says The Tower of Babel antidote was superseded, per your #4 for example, because that is presumptuous about the New Testament. Even the tribes or clans that were following God the Father through Moses settled land allotments separately.

Blogger VD June 08, 2018 8:40 AM  

Why would the USA be better without the Irish immigrants (not trying to argue, just curious?) Is it because they tend to vote leftist/democrat?

Yes, but mostly because they were partly responsible for the 1965 Immigration Act that was the USA's death knell.

Blogger VD June 08, 2018 8:42 AM  

The Great Commission supersedes separation -- it teaches people how to look to Christ as the Head so they can live peacefully despite their many differences. An Alt-Right Odin-worshipper might not have any use for that ideal, but shouldn't it be a Christian's vision?

No, it does nothing of the sort. This is why women aren't permitted to talk in church.

Why not show the radial Islamists how it's done, English, Irish, Spanish, Catholic, Protestant, East Orthodox Christians living together in peace?

Because that will never happen. Christianity doesn't bring peace, it brings division. This is why women aren't permitted to talk in church.

Blogger justaguy June 08, 2018 10:57 AM  

# 92

I would submit that even if these “evil Boomers” decided to help “fix the problems they caused?” does anyone here actually think that they would have a viable plan that wasn’t just helping the statists elites? Look at the Gates Foundation, look at Mrs. Gates and her views?

The views of the Boomers are split like any other generation. Maybe we helped elect Reagan, but that was then this is now. The Boomers, where only a small % after a lifetime of hard work are comfortable are also are now old and going out of power. It is up to future generations to fight against the Statist/Progressive ideology that has been metastasizing in the West since the mid- 1800s—all based on there not being a God who created us.

Blogger liberranter June 08, 2018 11:00 AM  

You will know they have been convicted of the truth, even if they haven't accepted it yet, when they desperately try to change the subject to you, your motivations, and your shortcomings. Don't take the bait, just calmly ask, "What does that have to do with 20th century immigration and its consequences?" and steer them back to the subject they are now trying to avoid addressing.

They will inevitably resort to ad hominem attacks once their arguments are destroyed. There is usually nothing you can do to reverse this because, as Vox points out, the truth is a virus that is lethal to who they are. The only thing you can do at this point is mock them for resorting to juvenile deflection tactics. At the same time, realize that you've won the battle, but that the enemy is never going to admit defeat.

Blogger IreneAthena June 08, 2018 1:41 PM  

Quite a versatile “ad feminam” argument that is, VD! I see how it is now. Ciao.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 09, 2018 3:42 AM  

@114

You don't like the wisdom of the Bible?

How about current events.
When a church allows a woman to preach, and especially if they hire a woman to be a pastor, attendance soon after plummets.

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