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Monday, June 25, 2018

Mailvox: LEAVE JORDY ALONE

I am fully aware that my position on Jordan Peterson has cost me more than a few readers, and apparently, even a few backers. So be it.
Time to lay of Jordan Peterson. I do not understand why you continue to bitch on and on and on about Jordan Peterson. I really didn't understand why you started in the first place, but it has gotten very stale and very old. This is not a good look for you or the businesses you are working on.

You may think you have unleashed devastating rhetorical attacks on him. But you have not made your case with people who look past the rhetoric for the facts. I'm not the only one who knows this. People who have been supportive of you in the past are disgusted by this sniping. One told me it's jealousy. My response was, well, Vox claims it isn't. But he also claims that about Scalzi and Shapiro.

The thing is, I know that you know you have not made the case against Peterson. "Jordan Peterson is a physical coward." Really? Well, I know a guy who was given a corporate position of high responsibility, and his response was to sabotage the IT department to promote his own ambitions. SJW? Well, he says he isn't, but you know what they say about SJWs....

This is a bad look for you and the projects you're working on. Sure, the blog is personal, and CH, Arkhaven and IG are separate. But your blog is the gateway for this stuff. I've supported two of your FreeStarter projects, and I've bought pretty much everything CH has published. Some of those books I'll never get to. I already have a backlog of Voxiversity videos.

But this continued trashing of Jordan Peterson is causing me to rethink my support of these things. I can support John Wright and Peter Grant directly. If there's a book--to be honest, I don't read any comics other than the Arkhaven ones--I can always buy it if I want it. But there's no point in supporting a brand that is determined to marginalize itself.

I urge you to let this go. I don't care how you feel about him personally. But you have published far, far more than the topic ever deserved.
This was my response:

The fact that you think I have not made my case is precisely why I am going to continue making it until you and everyone else who continues to defend him admits the truth about him. You don't seem to understand that my attacks on him are not rhetorical, they are substantive, they are factual, and they are correct.

I appreciate your previous support, but the fact is that you have a choice to make. And if you're going to stand by Jordan Peterson, then you really should stop supporting me, Castalia House, and Arkhaven. Because you are not really on the side of the Americans, the Christians, and the nationalists, you are on the side of the atheists, the globalists, and the socialists.

I am not going to abandon the truth because someone won't give me money. And you can tell all of those people who are disgusted by this sniping, who believe that I am jealous, that they can fuck off. They may have thought they supported me, but they never knew me at all. I don't want anything to do with them, not now, and not in the future when they come crawling around to admit that I was correct all along. Again.

I didn't mind it when most of my readers initially thought I was wrong about Peterson. But with the information that is out there about him now, there is absolutely no excuse for defending or standing by the man.

Regards,
Vox

If I didn't sell out when GT Interactive offered me millions of dollars, if I didn't take any of the multiple offers that have been made for Castalia House, if I refused to remove the chapters on Republican media whores at the demand of Fox News and Thomas Nelson in the full knowledge that they would cancel the book contract (the latter even tried unsuccessfully to get out of paying what they contractually owed me), what makes anyone think I won't hesitate to let every single one of our backers and buyers walk away rather than alter my well-informed position on Jordan Peterson one iota?

If I was the sort of man who would pay any attention to these demands, if I was the sort of individual inclined to demonstrate that kind of intellectual flexibility, then absolutely none of you should donate so much as penny to help us make movies, because there is going to be all kinds of intense pressure to compromise, to sell out, to back down, to adulterate, and to shade the truth during the funding and film-making process, to say nothing of when we have some initial success and Disney or Netflix swoops in and offers to simply buy the whole thing out for enough cash to let me live like a king for the rest of my life.

Is that truly what you want from me? Do you really think so little of me, or at least, of my self-respect?

And yes, Jordan Peterson is a physical coward. Anyone who is a physical coward at the age of 12 is almost always still a physical coward as an adult, barring subsequent military service. If you still haven't grasped that Peterson is a nasty little gamma by nature, consider this excerpt from 12 Rules of Life.
I had a rocky friendship with a Métis kid, Rene Heck, when I was in elementary school. It was rocky because the situation was complex. There was a large cultural divide between Rene and me. His clothes were dirtier. He was rougher in speech and attitude. I had skipped a grade in school, and was, in addition, small for my age. Rene was a big, smart, good-looking kid, and he was tough. We were in grade six together, in a class taught by my father. Rene was caught chewing gum. “Rene,” said my father, “spit that gum out. You look like a cow.” “Ha, ha,” I laughed, under my breath. “Rene the cow.” Rene might have been a cow, but there was nothing wrong with his hearing. “Peterson,” he said, “after school—you’re dead.”

Earlier in the morning, Rene and I had arranged to see a movie that night at the local movie theatre, the Gem. It looked like that was off. In any case, the rest of the day passed, quickly and unpleasantly, as it does when threat and pain lurk. Rene was more than capable of giving me a good pounding. After school, I took off for the bike stands outside the school as fast as I could, but Rene beat me there. We circled around the bikes, him on one side, me on the other. We were characters in a “Keystone Cops” short. As long as I kept circling, he couldn’t catch me, but my strategy couldn’t work forever. I yelled out that I was sorry, but he wasn’t mollified. His pride was hurt, and he wanted me to pay.

I crouched down and hid behind some bikes, keeping an eye on Rene. “Rene,” I yelled, “I’m sorry I called you a cow. Let’s quit fighting.” He started to approach me again. I said, “Rene, I am sorry I said that. Really. And I still want to go to the movie with you.” This wasn’t just a tactic. I meant it. Otherwise what happened next would not have happened. Rene stopped circling. Then he stared at me. Then he broke into tears. Then he ran off. That was Native-white relationships in a nutshell, in our hard little town. We never did go to a movie together.
Peterson is also an intellectual coward. You could see this when he hastily backed down rather than assert the right of free association when called out for his inconsistency on civil rights. Besides, leaving Jordy alone would interfere with Jordanetics Week at the Daily Meme Wars.


Labels: ,

180 Comments:

Blogger James Dixon June 25, 2018 10:18 AM  

> ...if I was the sort of individual inclined to demonstrate that kind of intellectual flexibility, then absolutely none of you should donate a penny to help us make Alt-Movies, because there is going to be all kinds of intense pressure to compromise, to sell out, to back down, to adulterate, and to shade the truth during the process, to say nothing of when we have some initial success and Disney or Netflix swoops in and offers to simply buy the whole thing out for enough cash to let me live like a king for the rest of my life.

Vox, this is actually the reason I consider you the only person qualified to run the Alt-Movies offensive. I don't trust anyone else to do it.

Blogger John June 25, 2018 10:23 AM  

And this would be why I support Vox.

I wonder how many of the people who have withdrawn money from Vox's projects over JPB (or whatever) have also canceled their Netflix accounts. You have to draw the line somewhere, right?

Blogger David The Good June 25, 2018 10:27 AM  

I don't understand why anyone likes JP. It's utterly baffling.

Blogger grendel June 25, 2018 10:28 AM  

Yep, Peterson is a bad guy. And the comment about being jealous of Scalzi sounds more and more hollow as Castalia
rises and Scalzi misses deadlines and fades from relevance

Blogger BassmanCO June 25, 2018 10:31 AM  

How can you be jealous and sniping when you are quoting the man's own (written) words? I had no opinion of Peterson before this started (and have not watched any of his videos or read his books), but unless you are libeling him (which I am sure he would be beating you down with lawyers if you were), what am I to think of the guy except that he is a whiny bitch tool of the globalists?

Blogger VD June 25, 2018 10:32 AM  

I also note that no one accused me of being jealous of Ben Shapiro back when I first started criticizing him 13 years ago. No one criticizes me for being jealous of Andrew Anglin or Michelle Malkin either.

The Chickenhawk Clucks

Blogger tuberman June 25, 2018 10:39 AM  

There is ALWAYS someone exactly like this female (sometimes a Gamma male, but usually a female). "I've always supported you, but you're just too RUDE, and my feelz, oh, my feelz."

Blogger Markku June 25, 2018 10:39 AM  

If this is the cost of integrity, I'll happily pay it.

Blogger Rabbi B June 25, 2018 10:40 AM  

"This is a bad look for you and the projects you're working on."

Because 'looking good', not the truth, is paramount. Gotta keep the outside of that cup lookin' purty, NO MATTER WHAT.

Woe to you when all men speak well of you,
for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
(cf. Luke 6)

Blogger lazlo azavaar June 25, 2018 10:43 AM  

Jesus, all those attempts at out-grouping. The person who wrote this is really unsettled at being out with the Kewl Kidz Klub, and is projecting like a lighthouse.

Blogger Long Live The West June 25, 2018 10:46 AM  

John, you have to understand. It's okay to support baby murdering, child abusing, anti-American, muslim loving, sodomites. But there's got to be SOME standards after all. And Vox clearly crossed the line by calling someone a coward.

Go clean your room.

Blogger VD June 25, 2018 10:47 AM  

Jesus, all those attempts at out-grouping.

Pro tip: NEVER try to manipulate a Sigma by the threat of out-grouping. That's like telling a little kid "don't do that or I'll give you a candy bar!"

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 25, 2018 10:47 AM  

I think when it's revealed that Vox's life force is sustained not by food and drink, but by their pain, people will reorient their approach.

Naaahhh

Blogger Daniel Hammarberg June 25, 2018 10:47 AM  

I'd be more accepting of this JP guy and his dimwit perspective if two things had been true.

1) He'd be willing to actually debate the people he attacks.
2) He wasn't so heavily promoted by TPTB.

But as it stands, all over on social media, you're pestered by stuff like, "what's Jordan Peterson's stance on religion?" "What's JP's religious views?" Not to mention his response, something like, "In two years time, I'll let you know my thoughts on it." I mean, what kind of an ego does the guy have, pretending that it's so important that it's something to hold out for? Put it up for display now and let it be debated.

For all of how much I've been subjected to him "cleaning house" (hehe, I actually meant that as "making homeruns", but realized I touched on the #1 advice that loser has to offer people), I've never seen him actually make any truly solid points on anything. It's all conjecture, and gatekeeping for TPTB.

What kind of a world do we live in, where people take JP seriously? It's like we've got ourselves a new Jim Jones here.

Blogger Silent Draco June 25, 2018 10:49 AM  

"Hear me, O Baal! What about MEEEE?!"

Elijah is about to call for the real stuff. Please keep standing there.

Blogger Jack Ward June 25, 2018 10:49 AM  

I learned from my doubts about the GE and heeded the Vox advice to wait and see.
Good advice. And, since I seem to be the poster child for Standing around here...

I STAND With Vox DAY!

He also has made enough of a case against Peterson, already, to cement that stand.

As Bedford Forrest famously said,' Keep up the skerr'

Blogger James Dixon June 25, 2018 10:50 AM  

> If this is the cost of integrity, I'll happily pay it.

Well, that was a given for you too Markku. And probably most of the Dread Ilk (a few of us have never had to face the temptation of untold wealth, so it's hard to say for certain).

Blogger KSC June 25, 2018 10:56 AM  

What book was this that was canceled?

Blogger David Wright June 25, 2018 10:56 AM  

The Jeffries' interview and JPB capitulation was embarrassing to watch. He's a liberal, maybe not totally lefty crazy but still hadn't an intellectual leg to stand on. So he melted into his chair.
BTW, I hate that pig Jeffries. Backfeifengesicht comes to mind here.

Blogger Rabbi B June 25, 2018 10:56 AM  

Always amusing to see people give VD unsolicited advice.

Are they truly concerned for his projects, or are they just enamored with the sound of their own typing?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 25, 2018 10:58 AM  

Where the hell does "That's not a good look" come from? It's a womanly thought expressed stupidly. And in this case, it is rather obviously going to be ignored. I mean, people have seen the mohawk picture, right?

There are some people like me, who support Vox and Castalia because we trust you. Being the sort of Shapiro-ish weasel that would hold his tongue because some goober demanded it lest he stop spending his $100 annually on Castalia and Arkhaven would lessen that.

Keep pissing them off.

Blogger Flair1239 June 25, 2018 10:59 AM  

I don’t mind the substantive attacks on Peterson. He does have Globalist leanings, he is of the Left and his position on White Identity politics is painfully contorted.

However, he is not the caricature that you have painted. You have called him “objectively stupid”, intellectually dishonest, evil, mentally ill, and have hinted that he is a pedophile. At best all of these are simply your opinion.

That said, I can’t imagine this has had much of a bottom line impact to you. I would imagine anyone who has been mortally offended by any of this was not a huge supporter anyway. You have also gotten a decent amount of publicity out of the deal.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 25, 2018 11:01 AM  

Long Live The West wrote:Go clean your room.
Flava-Flav said it better:
"Wipe yo' butt."

Blogger Long Live The West June 25, 2018 11:02 AM  

They want Vox to acknowledge them as his betters.

Blogger Rabbi B June 25, 2018 11:04 AM  

You have called him “objectively stupid”, intellectually dishonest, evil, mentally ill, and have hinted that he is a pedophile.

Caricature. That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

Blogger Ned June 25, 2018 11:04 AM  

All info supplied by VD regarding JP just keeps getting more thorough. Who could possible miss that, and confuse the information as rhetoric?

Blogger Flair1239 June 25, 2018 11:11 AM  

A ludicrous, exaggerated or grotesque version of a person or thing?

That is what I intended to say.

What word should I have used?

Blogger kevmalone June 25, 2018 11:13 AM  

Its a pleasure to read you each day Vox.
Stout fellow.

Blogger M. Bibliophile June 25, 2018 11:16 AM  

JBP is philosophically and theologically poisonous. Vox, you have my gratitude for your work in unmasking this false prophet, and I point out that he is completely unsound whenever he comes up. The man is flat out dangerous because he is able to couch his toxic, bottomless philosophy in words that sound attractive to conservatives who are starved for any kind of credentialed approval (he's an Academic on our side!) and feels less empty to children who have never been given anything but nihilism. What he has done, in effect, is to create a sumptuous banquet of exquisitely spiced and prepared excrement: tastes great, but it'll kill you. Sure, those first few bites may be more satisfying than everything else on offer, and if you stop there you may experience nothing more than a vague sense of nausea down the road. Any further, and the toxicity will overwhelm your defenses and drag you someplace you don't want to be.

JBP is not on our side. He is more dangerous than a foaming moonbat because his goals are no different, but his tactics are to shut the moonbat up so that we go back to sleep and let the Globalists rebuild Babel. In his mind, this will prevent WWIII. He lives in a world where the sillier "a very special" episodes of Star Trek and Babylon 5 are true and human nature is what we wish it were, not what it is. For a psychologist, he is remarkably blind to human psychology that way.

I never bothered diving into his work because I got the "something's wrong" sensation and kept my distance. Your first takedown was sufficient to confirm that he was even worse than even I perceived, and you've done nothing but build more of a case ever since. Your (correct) identification of him as a false prophet and modern Pied Piper has earned more, not less respect. While I feel for those who want so badly for him to be an asset for our side, this is simply not the case. Kudos to you, VD, and keep up the fire!

Blogger Rabbi B June 25, 2018 11:17 AM  

@27

What word should I have used?

You might try using an argument rather than a word.

Blogger Looking Glass June 25, 2018 11:20 AM  

@14 Daniel Hammarberg

When a friend from another continent randomly brought up JP, right before Vox went after him, it wasn't a good sign. The impression I got, originally, was he grouped with the Centrists/"Why can't we all just get along?" camp, while also basically offering some foundational educational instruction. As it stands, more people know him as the "really, are you that stupid?" meme when the interviewer for the BBC got blown out of the water.

Once Vox started digging & quoting what he'd written, it's clear he's not operating from an honest position.

A little side point, which I imagine almost no one would notice about JP. His presentation style is very much in line with most Canadian Christian Pastors approaches. I don't expect many have met all that many Canadian pastors, but if you give JP a Southern Accent & some more hand movements, you'd recognize the approach. Canadians are just much more sedate than Southerners. However, since there is no outside-Canada exposure (normally) to Canadian religious practices.

I really should have mentioned that a bit ago, but I never actually listened to JP more than a few clips. After a bit, I noticed the stylistic aspects.

Blogger VD June 25, 2018 11:21 AM  

What book was this that was canceled?

Media Whores. I was literally paid not to write it by Thomas Nelson because Fox News hated the chapter on Bill O'Reilly after TN showed it to them.

You have called him “objectively stupid”, intellectually dishonest, evil, mentally ill, and have hinted that he is a pedophile. At best all of these are simply your opinion.

That's not true. He is, by his own admission, mentally ill. Depression is a mental illness. He is observably and demonstrably intellectually dishonest. He is evil; he literally worked for the United Nations. And I have merely shared my own suspicions about his actions in explaining away an apparent coverup of pedophiles in Canada.

Blogger BassmanCO June 25, 2018 11:21 AM  

Flair1239 wrote:A ludicrous, exaggerated or grotesque version of a person or thing?

That is what I intended to say.

What word should I have used?



I think the point is, if the portrayal is accurate, it isn't a caricature.

Blogger Longtime Lurker June 25, 2018 11:23 AM  

Can a relentless pursuer of the truth ultimately be successful in business? Or is it an either-or proposition?

Blogger Rabbi B June 25, 2018 11:25 AM  

@34 Longtime Lurker

A pursuer of truth will always be successful. Period.

Blogger Ronaldus of Chitown June 25, 2018 11:25 AM  

As someone who has consumed all of JBP's lectures and took away some useful insights and tools this is my take on him: unless he confesses that Jesus is the Christ, the incarnation of God in the flesh, he is teaching in the spirit of antichrist. This is basic Bible doctrine. I had already lost interest in him as Vox started exposing him. I took that as a good sign that my disillusionment in JBP was well founded.

Blogger Emmett Fitz-Hume June 25, 2018 11:32 AM  

I had no real opinions on JBP one way or another. I mean, 'Clean your room?' Really? Marie Kondo does that better.

I'd never read JBP, except exerpts here. But that little vignette about the Cow and the Bike Rack is probably the most illustrative story I've read, or at least the one speaks to me most:
"It was rocky because the situation was complex. There was a large cultural divide between Rene and me."

That cultural divide was the largest the human race has; Between men and women.

JBP never learned some simple rules for being a man; Stand by your friends. Loyalty matters. FFS, his friend Rene was chewing gum, not cheating on a test or grabbing boobs and he couldn't even be loyal then. That even this lesson appears lost on him speaks volumes.

Stand by your friends you pusillanimous, feminine little twit.

Blogger James Dixon June 25, 2018 11:38 AM  

> You have called him “objectively stupid”, intellectually dishonest, evil, mentally ill, and have hinted that he is a pedophile

He is, by his own admission, mentally ill. He is obviously and demonstrably intellectually dishonest. And by Vox's standards he is almost certainly "objectively stupid".

Blogger tuberman June 25, 2018 11:46 AM  

JP is the current "archetype" of a well-positioned, controlled opposition. It is time to deconstruct the comped fools, and expose the ones in the "center."

Will JP have terrifying dreams of this exposure? Will even Canadians bully his fem NWO azz in the future? Will WWIII just be his personal apocalypse instead?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 25, 2018 11:49 AM  

"Objectively stupid" is not "intrinsically stupid". Peterson has the mental horsepower to be smart. His mental illness, political correctness and cowardice shut him down whenever a real challenge to his thinking comes up.

Blogger IAM Spartacus June 25, 2018 11:53 AM  

I still don't think JP is worth as much time as VD puts into him. Other than JP has somehow wormed his way into being confused with supporting the Alt-Right, which he himself says he has "saved young men" from, I don't think he is contributing enough to change the game. Sure he might get some guy who mistakenly went to his liberal college. But I think many Nationalists are seeing him for what he is.

VD's dissection of JP's book was beneficial and to the point. Most of the other stuff is just rhetoric. Some rhetoric is useful but VD feels he should do more. Fine, it's his time. I think long haul his work on Archaven and Alt-Hero will be for more beneficial (FYI: liked number two a lot. I assume we will get more background on each hero after the initial "show").

Blogger Zaklog the Great June 25, 2018 11:56 AM  

So how should a smaller child who is almost certain to seriously lose such an encounter act? I'm genuinely curious here. Surely physical courage is not the same as rank stupidity.

Blogger Gen. Kong June 25, 2018 11:57 AM  

BassmanCO wrote:
How can you be jealous and sniping when you are quoting the man's own (written) words? I had no opinion of Peterson before this started (and have not watched any of his videos or read his books), but unless you are libeling him (which I am sure he would be beating you down with lawyers if you were), what am I to think of the guy except that he is a whiny bitch tool of the globalists?

Exactly.

Blogger VD June 25, 2018 11:57 AM  

I still don't think JP is worth as much time as VD puts into him.

I don't think you realize how popular he is. He's bigger than Milo was and his influence is pernicious.

Also, there aren't very many people who are as capable of wading through his incoherent, pseudo-intellectual bullshittery.

Blogger Nikephoros II Phokas June 25, 2018 11:57 AM  

Well said, Vox.

Blogger VD June 25, 2018 11:58 AM  

So how should a smaller child who is almost certain to seriously lose such an encounter act?

A smaller child should never mock his physical superiors. And if he decides to do so, then he should put up the best fight he can, take his well-merited beating, and earn their respect thereby.

Blogger Dave June 25, 2018 11:59 AM  

if I didn't take any of the multiple offers that have been made for Castalia House

Those people that think they can buy something like Castalia House and assure everybody nothing will change and they'll continue doing the same thing, are fools. What they refuse to see or accept is, it's the people and the ideas behind the name that matter. Even if they kept some of the same people around for a period of time, things would eventually start to change. It always does.

I stand with Vox Day. Peterson's puppets can all eff themselves.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 25, 2018 12:01 PM  

100% on taking your licks like a man.

Blogger Red Rover June 25, 2018 12:01 PM  

I'm reading your blog more because of your takedown of JBP. I'd rather see the "Vox Day: An Antidote to Jordanetics" tour.

https://www.tobincenter.org/box-office/2018-10/dr-jordan-peterson

Blogger cheddarman June 25, 2018 12:02 PM  

Jack Ward and I stand With Vox.

Blogger Solaire Of Astora June 25, 2018 12:05 PM  

Does every single one of JBP's defenders resort to imputing his critics with jealousy towards him? It's telling that they side with a person who waffles and backpedals and rejects a person who shows what standing with conviction is actually like in practice. All the magnificent virtues Peterson talks about aren't something they can appreciate in practice.

Blogger Dave June 25, 2018 12:05 PM  

I still don't think JP is worth as much time as VD puts into him.

Do you have a blog where we can all drop comments telling you how you should spend your time?

Blogger Daniel June 25, 2018 12:09 PM  

That excerpt also appears in 12 Rules, unless Maps of Meaning is a misattribution.

Blogger Gen. Kong June 25, 2018 12:09 PM  

What kind of a world do we live in, where people take JP seriously? It's like we've got ourselves a new Jim Jones here.

They fall for it because it's the latest version of a scam that's worked for many decades on end for TPTB: fake opposition. The recent promotion of Peterson along with figures like Shapiro and Goldberg as the "Intellectual Dark Web" by the Satanic New Duranty Times basically proves it. The Body-Snatchers, their apparachiks and lickspittles are very careful to avoid mention of those who actually oppose them.

There is a long list of such fake-leader figures going back decades. William F. Cuckley wasn't even the first. The Jim Jones reference is a good one, too. Those who follow these figures end up like Jones' followers at the end of the day - which is all part of the strategy.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 25, 2018 12:10 PM  

Zaklog the Great wrote:So how should a smaller child who is almost certain to seriously lose such an encounter act?
It is, or at least was, called "taking your lumps". Give as good as you can, take your beating, and then apologize.

And don't be a snarky little bitch who mocks his friends in class.

Blogger Ingot9455 June 25, 2018 12:13 PM  

It's a tussle between friends. Put up your dukes and give as good as you get while it stays good natured.

Giving as good as you get means no crossed lines. No low blows, biting, or eye gouging. Cry uncle if you get pinned and can't get away.

If it's not good natured, if lines are crossed, then it's no holds barred and do everything you can.

Blogger Daniel June 25, 2018 12:15 PM  

Peterson is objectively stupid at math by his own admission: not quite high school graduate-level, if that high.

Blogger FSL June 25, 2018 12:16 PM  

Cato the elder advocated for the destruction of Carthage, not Cicero. Cicero was against Antony, who eventually had him killed. But I guess people know Cicero better than they know Cato, so it may be more rhetorically effective. Also, Cicero seems to have been rather prissy at times, so that fits.

Blogger Paul R June 25, 2018 12:17 PM  

I knew JP was a globalist shill from the first time I watched him when he was trying to weasel out of his role in firing Fatih Goldy. I'm happy VD is tearing him a new one.

Here's the funny thing... as much as I agree with VD on the JP thing, I totally fail to see it when he's talking about Anglin being a lefty. So I'm just kinda waiting. Maybe I'll eventually see what VD is talking about. Maybe VD will change his mind. Either way the point I'm trying to make to the original JP backer is the same: Nobody has a lock on the truth. Nobody is correct on every issue. On the Anglin thing...I might be wrong. Vox might be wrong. And on the JP thing, you might be wrong. If you don't NEED to stake some claim for some reason, then try to give yourself room to go back and make an honest reassessment from time to time. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it isn't true.

Blogger IAM Spartacus June 25, 2018 12:17 PM  

VD wrote:I still don't think JP is worth as much time as VD puts into him.

I don't think you realize how popular he is. He's bigger than Milo was and his influence is pernicious.

Also, there aren't very many people who are as capable of wading through his incoherent, pseudo-intellectual bullshittery.


I do realize as the beast supports their own. Milo was squashed because he was not part of the beast. JP is, as is Beeny, this is why they both get the air-time that is denied to any Alt-righter. JP's bullshit, like all globalists bs, will capture some of the middle for a time but it will be seen for what it is.

Unfortunately there are still many people close to the middle that hope that they will get validation. They see JP as a way to get that. They are wrong. You have pointed it out so many times. The beast dangles the platform out to you so you get the feeling of acceptance but it only does that so it has a means to control you.

JP will have a platform as long as it's a distraction to the Nationalist, but people who create new platforms, like yourself, are far move valuable in competing with the Beast then competing with the false prophets.

Blogger Daniel June 25, 2018 12:18 PM  

Why did smart post-Christians fall for Dianetics? Because there is a hypnotic genius to the word salad.

Blogger Zaklog the Great June 25, 2018 12:19 PM  

@46 Ah, don't earn their wrath. Fair enough. And what about if a more physically intimidating child decides to make you a target without deliberate provocation on your part? Would running in that case still make you a coward? Or is that simply rational?

Blogger Rabbi B June 25, 2018 12:20 PM  

Also, there aren't very many people who are as capable of wading through his incoherent, pseudo-intellectual bullshittery.

And precisely because Vox has donned the chest waders to do the job most were unwilling or too lazy to do, how many have benefitted thereby?

How many have admitted on this blog alone that they were avid JP supporters and blind to the dangers of what he peddles, but now can see?

One starfish at a time, as the saying goes.

Vox was willing to dig through the surface of things. And I think that we can be equally certain that if what he discovered about JP and his philosophy was substantive rather than vapid and specious, we would have heard about that too.

There is a tradition in Judaism about the pig and about one of the reasons it is considered such an abomination.

As it lays down it proudly displays its cloven hooves, as if to say, "Behold, how kosher I am!". But, it is only after spending more time to investigate and observe the pig more carefully, it's habits and how it behaves , that one discovers it does not chew the cud and is therefore an abomination before G-d, as it fails to meet His requirements for what is kosher and what is not.

Some may question and fail to appreciate Vox's efforts in regards to JP, but the lessons and result of those efforts should not be lost on us who are serious about shining the light of the truth in this dark world.

He who is not gathering is scattering.

Blogger Mark Stoval June 25, 2018 12:21 PM  

Liberalism, classical liberalism, libertarianism, conservatism, paleoconservatism, and even more categories have had their original meaning nearly destroyed or totally destroyed by subversives pretending to be part of the category but are not. This is cowardly and evil.

Let us remember that the men (yes MEN) who founded the USA were "liberals" by the definition of the day. But at some point the socialists (or progressives) started calling themselves "liberal" and "liberal" now means something very different.

In light of the above, I think that Jordan Peterson allowing himself to be called "of the right" or even "right leaning" is evil. The man is a globalist and a collectivist. The man should make sure everyone knows that and not allow people to call him any manner of "conservative" or "of the right".

At least no one has called him a Bucannonite ... yet. At least there is that. :-)

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 25, 2018 12:24 PM  

One of my younger brothers was the a target of such a bully when they were both in 3rd grade. My dad told my brother to put the kid in the hospital. Just because you're smaller doesn't mean you'll actually lose. As Mike Tyson says, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. The bully targeting my brother had a plan to call my brother names, right up until he was punched in the mouth and had his arm broken.

Blogger Gritón del Desierto June 25, 2018 12:27 PM  

Seriously? Stop backing Vox because he was "mean with JBP"
JBP fans put the guy on a pedestal and once it is on the pedestal,any rationalization will come.Lets see with what new mental gymnastics they come after this:
"Oh,but they didn't fight ,right?" "But he avoid being beaten and made the other guy cry,right?"," you're jealous because you don't have the sale power of persuation and you were punched in the face when you were a kid"
And the fact that the advice he gives "clean your room", even if you don't have a father,your mom,grandma,uncle,whatever may had said to You " clean your f*cking room".Even saturday morning cartoons teach those things,people need to ser more Power Rangers when growing up.Even the guys of the Daily Stormer are losing their heads with JBP.

Blogger Nathan Bissonette June 25, 2018 12:28 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Vlad Z. June 25, 2018 12:29 PM  

It seems like everyday I see another "You have to look at this ... " post or message from a mostly conservative friend with Jordon videos in them.

I have watched a number of them. Depending on the interviewer and the topic they can be quite good. If the interviewer doesn't push to hard, or he's facing an off-the-wall SJW he comes across like a level-headed conservative.

It's only when he's pushed that his weakness starts to show. To put it bluntly, he cucks. "Of course I'm not a racist and racism is terrible" "Well, I'm not a feminist of *that* type".

So, sadly, further debunking is required because he's still successfully pulling off his "wolf in sheep's clothing" routine, and a lot of reasonable people are getting sucked in by him.

Which, now that I think about it, is a pretty good definition of a con man.

Blogger English Tom June 25, 2018 12:38 PM  

All those attempts at outgrouping.

Et tu bucko.

Blogger James Dixon June 25, 2018 12:46 PM  

> And what about if a more physically intimidating child decides to make you a target without deliberate provocation on your part?

Pick up the nearest large blunt object and put it to good use. There is no such thing as a fair fight.

Blogger wreckage June 25, 2018 12:49 PM  

Vox' dissection of JBP was surprisingly informative.

Blogger VD June 25, 2018 12:49 PM  

I guess people know Cicero better than they know Cato, so it may be more rhetorically effective.

And "Jordan B. Cicero" sounds funnier than "Jordan B. Cato the Elder". Also, Peterson is the point, not the ancient Roman senator.

Blogger Elijah June 25, 2018 12:50 PM  

Vox is right. the only good thing jpb ever said was that tranny language is stupid. however, now I am not sure he actually said that!

Blogger VD June 25, 2018 12:52 PM  

And what about if a more physically intimidating child decides to make you a target without deliberate provocation on your part? Would running in that case still make you a coward? Or is that simply rational?

Yes. And yes. Most cowardice is rational. Most cowards can successfully rationalize their cowardice and will do so tirelessly. Flip the script to understand it better. Is it brave to run away just because you don't deserve a high probability of losing a fight?

Discretion is, at times, to be preferred to valor. But it is not valor.

Blogger Latigo3 June 25, 2018 1:03 PM  

While I have not been on the Jordy bandwagon, I actually barely heard of him until I read your post on him. I am glad you did, because once I read up on him, I found that my son liked him. So, I was able to speak factually and make my son think a little more.

Blogger Al K. Annossow June 25, 2018 1:03 PM  

Someone who appreciates the promotion of individualism by Jordan Peterson wants Vox to put aside his individualism, stop the purge of heretics, and maybe join the Peterson bandwagon. Got it.

Actually, Vox's apparent individualism is his siding with the angels, with Western Civilization, and with his posterity. I suspect the complainer wanted to be on Vox's side rather than the side that Vox is on. Growing up is hard.

Nobody is merely an individual. Even standing up to public pressure is not individualism; it's just picking an inconvenient side. In Peterson's case it's picking the globalist left instead of the progressive left. It's not even a pause in the ratcheting. Just because they are currently tacking into some headwinds doesn't mean they aren't still trying to move their agenda forward. Putting some canon balls through their sails is a good thing. The more the better.

Blogger pyrrhus June 25, 2018 1:03 PM  

This post reminds me of the scene in 'For a few Dollars More' when the three guys tell Clint to "leave Red alone."....

Blogger Sillon Bono June 25, 2018 1:04 PM  

@VD

I don't meant to argue with you, I think you're correct about JP and I'm not discussing that.

I just want to raise a point, most JP supporters have seen videos like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InjeKKH6EVc

And hence why they defend him so ardently, he's slaying dragons they hate, hence he's got a dragon's slayer reputation.

Just pointing that out.

Blogger TM Lutas June 25, 2018 1:06 PM  

I get into similar conflicts with my European relatives every once in awhile. We both agree that America, culturally, is a land of second chances and new business starts after four bankruptcies and that Europe simply... isn't. There are things that separate us from especially the continental part of the European tradition and this idea that people can learn, people can change at advanced ages (I've had 7 proposed as a dividing line in some cases) is part of what they identify as the strangeness that is America.

It's not a divide that is unbridgeable or need result in anger or bitterness, but it is a real divide and I see you, Vox, as landing on the side that is not American.

Whether you are right or wrong about your analysis of Jordan Peterson is a separate question. Your analytical method is what I'm commenting on here.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants June 25, 2018 1:08 PM  

Dude, I'm not a doctor, and I didn't need Vox to tell me,(of course, I'd seen his videos for a couple of yrs before Vox) & I was able to spot his mental issues fairly quickly.
I can't claim I paid much attention to what he said in those videos. To my ears, when he speaks, I just hear regurgitated Heidigger & Jung, with a dash of Deepak Chopra, mixed into a word salad when I listen to him, and I tend to get bored & drift off.
That said, I can spot a looney tunes, extremely well, something about it screams at me, when I see it. I guess I really can't explain it well.

Blogger James Dixon June 25, 2018 1:08 PM  

> And hence why they defend him so ardently, he's slaying dragons they hate, hence he's got a dragon's slayer reputation.

Except he's not. He's arguing that the dragon made poor food choices on that particular day, that cattle are a better choice than the baron's daughter. He has absolutely nothing against the dragon as such.

Blogger VD June 25, 2018 1:11 PM  

It's not a divide that is unbridgeable or need result in anger or bitterness, but it is a real divide and I see you, Vox, as landing on the side that is not American.

What does this have to do with Peterson? He hasn't learned. He hasn't changed. His objectives remain the same, and his inconsistencies and incoherencies go unadmitted and uncorrected. I've changed my thinking considerably more than Peterson has changed his.

I very much doubt he ever understood the actual details of the socialist ideology he claims to have rejected with all ideology. And it's absurd to claim that one is post-ideological anyhow.

Blogger Joseph Maroney June 25, 2018 1:14 PM  

"2) He wasn't so heavily promoted by TPTB."

This is the kiss of death.

Blogger NO GOOGLES June 25, 2018 1:16 PM  

Is there really an argument in this comment thread about what to do if a bigger kid bullies you? Were you raised on an ice floe with no parents? Most bullies are either trying to get a reaction or they are relying on intimidation. Generally they like easy targets that don't fight back. Those of you asking this question: did you really never hear from your father to punch your bully in the mouth when you were 6 years old?

This is basically unwritten rule #1 of being a man: talk shit, get hit. Every man has to learn it himself at some point.

Blogger NO GOOGLES June 25, 2018 1:18 PM  

Also, through long experience I've learned to be extremely skeptical of anyone who name drops Jung more than once.

Blogger Gunnar von Cowtown June 25, 2018 1:21 PM  

@23

Flava-Flav said it better:
"Wipe yo' butt."


Atta boy!

Blogger jSinSaTx June 25, 2018 1:21 PM  

I find it interesting the gushing admiration for JP. Stefan Molyneux said something along the lines of worrying that when he talks to JP he will look like an idiot. Rubin says the same type of thing. I have few doubts JP is >120, but I see no reason these others should be so intimidated. Rogan called the Harris vs Peterson truth discussion a train wreck.

This IDW stuff is getting a bit annoying.

Blogger Al K. Annossow June 25, 2018 1:24 PM  

NO GOOGLES wrote:Also, through long experience I've learned to be extremely skeptical of anyone who name drops Jung more than once.
1 of more than once)Jung was a friend of mine
2 of more than once) He had his faults, but Jung was an OK guy in person.
(Didn't actually meet the guy, but I did visit his grave. Once.)

Blogger R Webfoot June 25, 2018 1:26 PM  

@73 "Vox is right. the only good thing jpb ever said was that tranny language is stupid. however, now I am not sure he actually said that!"

What he said is that he would refer to individuals by the pronouns they want; his problem is with compelled speech according to ideological radical leftism. But he would call Bruce Jenner "she." I don't know about the weirder pronouns like "wormself" though.

I did like how he deconstructed the radical leftist game of "identify an area of human production, notice trends in who succeeds and who fails, blame everything on the successful group oppressing the less successful group, rinse and repeat," and his criticism that this is doomed to fail because there is guaranteed to be a natural distribution in success.

Of course, I was disappointed that he did not go into much detail about, say, what those natural distinctions actually are, such as noting IQ differences between ethnicities beyond the exaggerated 115 Jewish IQ myth.

Blogger Cloom Glue June 25, 2018 1:29 PM  

Daniel wrote:Why did smart post-Christians fall for Dianetics? Because there is a hypnotic genius to the word salad.

Continuous attention on some subject, away from your own sub-conscious narrative and incessant negative self-talking, does bring relief to the upset self-oppressed atheist/agnostic individual.

So I think feeling better is from Jordan's speech cadence, continuous talking for two hours or more, earnestness, gestures, and equivocation of every point so as to not offend anybody into thinking, maybe like hypnosis.

Then I considered a fascinating point in the Rajneesh group (Wild Wild Country) where the guy never talked for one and a half or three years, and yet the mystique and books carried the group while he was silent. Others filled in the talking, I suppose, about the grandness of their different life. Also the techniques of mind distraction were established; eg. theirs were sexual and some kind of yapping and music and group bonding.

Jordan needs some add-on distraction methods like Rajneesh in case he loses his voice. Is "clean your room" enough of a mind distraction method? Maybe his psychology training and research is at play here more than seems apparent.

Blogger Joeplanet June 25, 2018 1:30 PM  

And this is why I have been following and supporting Vox since 1997.

Blogger VD June 25, 2018 1:31 PM  

I find it interesting the gushing admiration for JP. Stefan Molyneux said something along the lines of worrying that when he talks to JP he will look like an idiot. Rubin says the same type of thing.

They can't penetrate the word salad and they don't know the citations, so they assume it's beyond them. It isn't. It's beneath them. They just don't realize it.

Blogger Rabbi B June 25, 2018 1:31 PM  

@78

And hence why they defend him so ardently, he's slaying dragons they hate, hence he's got a dragon's slayer reputation.

demons slayer > dragon slayer

And yet, at the end of this long day, even our reputation combined with invoking His name will prove insufficient for many:

Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? (cf. Matthew 7)

We would do well to examine ourselves and understand why.

Blogger KSC June 25, 2018 1:34 PM  

@32
Man, I would have loved to read that. Did you write it and just not publish it? If so, I bet lots of CH readers would want it.

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelpia June 25, 2018 1:35 PM  

VD wrote:I still don't think JP is worth as much time as VD puts into him.

I don't think you realize how popular he is. He's bigger than Milo was and his influence is pernicious.

Also, there aren't very many people who are as capable of wading through his incoherent, pseudo-intellectual bullshittery.


I think there are lots of folks who are indeed wading through it -- witness his aforementioned populatiry -- it's just that few are capable of wielding the stilleto like VD.

Anyway, Vox is on a mission, though it certainly doesn't seem to have what Mad Dog Mattis would call and "end state," at least as far as I can see.

Ah, not to worry. JP is going to implode, it's just a matter of time. Even he has admitted it. He will make an unrecoverable faux pas, or descend into insanity, or become a hermit. Vox doesn't have to do anything, say anything, or write anything to hasten that inevitability.

All in due time.

Blogger James Dixon June 25, 2018 1:39 PM  

> Ah, not to worry. JP is going to implode, it's just a matter of time.

Of course. He's mentally unstable. It's a given. And even if that weren't the case, the same media that is currently espousing his wonders will eventually turn on him.

Blogger Gen. Kong June 25, 2018 1:46 PM  

Here's the funny thing... as much as I agree with VD on the JP thing, I totally fail to see it when he's talking about Anglin being a lefty. So I'm just kinda waiting. Maybe I'll eventually see what VD is talking about.

I think Anglin is also controlled opposition, but of a different type: the fake-Nazi. There's a long history of this as well. Look at the infamous Skokie march, led and organized by a fake-Nazi who was really a member of the (((tribe))). This type of fake-opposition is more of a honey-pot and false-flag platform which is employed by the Body-Snatchers and their (((fake news))) to discredit any who oppose the Banana Empire's ongoing debt-racketeering, invasion, colonization and genocide projects. This type operates outside the bounds of "respectability", while the Peterson type operates within the bounds but at the 'edge'. The objective of Ezra Levant (Peterson's handler) is to make Peterson's followers into faithful dupes who'll fall for the typical Republican-type of flim-flam ("conservatism") over and over. The objective of those who handle the Anglin and Spencer ops is to get folks arrested, fired, on regime hit-lists, on opioids, or to lead them into traps (Charlottesville, etc.).

Blogger RobertT June 25, 2018 1:54 PM  

FU money.

Blogger Long Live The West June 25, 2018 1:55 PM  

JP fans are all fair weather friends. As soon as JP says something wrong,or the media turns on him, it's over.

Blogger Jay Karknee June 25, 2018 2:00 PM  

Absolutely correct. Although skeptical of Peterson from the beginning (i.e., I never really liked the guy), I thought Vox was spending rather too much time writing about him. However, after thinking more deeply about the things I read, and then seeing Peterson's pathetic, outrageously lame response to the freedom of association question, I realize he is just as dangerous as Vox thinks he is. Our thing doesn't need any false prophets, we have enough obstacles already.

Blogger Rabbi B June 25, 2018 2:03 PM  

@99 Long Live the West

Yep.

Nothing tests the true substance of your principles like the trial by fire of rejection, hatred, and betrayal.

Blogger Garuna June 25, 2018 2:05 PM  

Jesus, all those attempts at out-grouping. The person who wrote this is really unsettled at being out with the Kewl Kidz Klub, and is projecting like a lighthouse.

Most of the "right-wing" is filled with liberal rejects. Once you understand this, everything makes sense.

Blogger Garuna June 25, 2018 2:13 PM  

So how should a smaller child who is almost certain to seriously lose such an encounter act? I'm genuinely curious here. Surely physical courage is not the same as rank stupidity.

yuge pussy detected

Blogger S. Misanthrope June 25, 2018 2:15 PM  

Vox is right: JP’s popularity is overwhelming. Much of my own family is transfixed by him. I listened to his Maps of Meaning lectures and found them fascinating. Then I listened to the Biblical series where I was surprised to find him saying he hadn’t really analyzed anything outside of Genesis. So wait- how did he develop the Maps of Meaning theory? He plowed ahead with the lecture series, though, getting shallower and shallower in his analysis. I expected people to start demanding their money back or at least to applaud less enthusiastically but no, they are lapping it up for some reason. They just love

Blogger S. Misanthrope June 25, 2018 2:20 PM  

hearing the same Solzhenitsyn story over and over, I guess.

Halfway through 12 rules I thought “Oh boy, Peterson is done. This book is terrible. Everyone who reads it will know he’s a fraud.” But no, at best I hear some non-fans who read the book at the recommendation of fans saying it’s confusing or goes over their heads. The fans actually think it’s good.

And I was a fan, completely! But being a fan didn’t cost me my ability to read ffs, nor to notice JP’s repeated cowardice, starting with Faith Goldy and clearly not slowing down.

Anyway, keep at it, Vox. The man is dangerous and harmful.

Blogger The Smoking Man #3424 June 25, 2018 2:20 PM  

I will admit to having Jordan Peterson fatigue. This reminds me so much of public school where I got the lesson in the first or second explanation. Now we endure the lessons being forcefully drilled into our heads... Which is understandable considering what's at stake. For the west to survive we need everyone, even the slow kids.

Blogger Durandel June 25, 2018 2:24 PM  

Vox, your unwavering commitment to Truth is the very reason I’ve followed and promoted you for over a decade, and why I support you and your projects with my tight budget. Thank you and God bless.

Blogger Zwiebel June 25, 2018 2:25 PM  

Among the first few videos I saw of Peterson was an interview in which he differentiates between mandated speech (gender pronouns) and forbidden speech (Holocaust). He said one was totalitarian, the other was not. I thought to myself, well, that's stupid, it's the same thing to mandate as to forbid, because by forbidding, you are mandating the opposite. I said to myself, well, he's a normie that somehow ran into an SJW wall, and that's fair enough. A lot of the other stuff he says, about women and happiness for example, are absolutely right.

But I have to say that while I just thought he was a bumbling psychiatrist, learning that he worked for the UN with Podesta really cast his "stupidity" in an entirely different light.

Vox may be a bit hard on him, but he may also be entirely right. For myself, I'll proceed with caution.

Blogger Garuna June 25, 2018 2:27 PM  

JP fans are all fair weather friends. As soon as JP says something wrong,or the media turns on him, it's over.

True. Peterson is a fad. His denial of identity politics and the fragility of his public image will be his downfall.

Blogger Garuna June 25, 2018 2:30 PM  

Among the first few videos I saw of Peterson was an interview in which he differentiates between mandated speech (gender pronouns) and forbidden speech (Holocaust). He said one was totalitarian, the other was not. I thought to myself, well, that's stupid

Fuckin hell. The guy is a mess and simply needs to be a put down as a public figure. Before, the only video of him I'd seen properly was the one he did with Camille Paglia. He seemed reasonable enough then. Not so anymore.

Blogger Othello June 25, 2018 2:30 PM  

These JP pieces are really funny. Moar.

Blogger Anno Ruse June 25, 2018 2:31 PM  

So there's an anti-Peterson subreddit at /r/enoughpetersonspam/. Reddit, being of the Left, finds much to hate about Peterson, who is "of the Right". An excerpt from their top post of all time.

"Some students in their exams write that these ideas are "entitled liberal bullshit," actual quote, rather than simply describe an idea they disagree with in neutral terms. And it's not like I'm out there defending every dumb thing ever posted on Tumblr! It's Simone de fucking Beauvoir!

It's not the disagreement. That I'm used to dealing with; it's the bread and butter of philosophy. No, it's the anger, hostility and complete fabrications.

They come in with the most bizarre idea of what 'post-modernism' is, and to even get to a real discussion of actual texts it takes half the time to just deprogram some of them. It's a minority of students, but it's affected my teaching style, because now I feel defensive about presenting ideas that I've taught without controversy for years.

Peterson is on the record saying Women's Studies departments and the Neo-Marxists are out to literally destroy western civilization and I have to patiently explain to them that, no, these people are my friends and colleagues, their research is generally very boring and unobjectionable, and you need to stop feeding yourself on this virtual reality that systematically cherry-picks things that perpetuates this neurological addiction to anger and belief vindication--every new upvoted confirmation of the faith a fresh dopamine high if how bad they are."

As entertaining as it is to imagine the professor sweating profusely as his students question the sanctity of Friends and Colleagues, I think this highlights exactly what Peterson is doing to all of his buckos. Peterson can't back up his arguments, nor can the buckos. The great achievement of Jordan Peterson? Creating muddled minds.

Blogger Lamarck Leland June 25, 2018 2:35 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey June 25, 2018 2:38 PM  

Whoever penned that letter to Vox looks like the US Chamber of Commerce to me, and that's not a good thing. One should rightly back and support friends and allies, what kind of friend tries to co-opt allies into their own agenda?

And I think Vox has been doing a commendable service regarding Peterson. I heard the buzz about Peterson, and he was on my To-Do list of thinkers to examine. Vox plunged in and revealed him to be a charlatan before I got around to it. For that I am thankful. Vox saved me the time and trouble. And all Vox had to do was quote Peterson, really, that was enough for most but the Peterson fanboys. Peterson's a Latter Day Pied Piper.

Blogger pdwalker June 25, 2018 2:45 PM  

Or, he could have taken his beating, even fought back, and remained friends.

Blogger pdwalker June 25, 2018 2:47 PM  

@Zaklog Simple. Fight back twice as hard. Sure, you’ll take a few hits, but you’ll make them pay for it.

Blogger pdwalker June 25, 2018 2:48 PM  

and his influence is pernicious.

First time I had to look up an English word in a long time.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 25, 2018 3:02 PM  

Gen. Kong,

Where can I read more about Ezra Levant being JBP's handler?

Blogger Blunt Force June 25, 2018 3:04 PM  

Apparently Peterson was raised by a feminist father . " We were in grade six together, in a class taught by my father. "
'splains a lot. There are no men in public education, because no self-respecting man would work in such a loathsome PC environment.

Blogger James Dixon June 25, 2018 3:06 PM  

> First time I had to look up an English word in a long time.

If you keep reading here, it won't be the last. Vox is one of the few people I've encountered who can match vocabularies with my wife.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd June 25, 2018 3:08 PM  

Blunt Force wrote:There are no men in public education, because no self-respecting man would work in such a loathsome PC environment.

The situation might have been a little less bad 50 years ago, but even 50 years ago that was true enough. I know that by the early 1950's in Texas, the public schools were converged enough that my mother was thoroughly disgusted and quit teaching.

Blogger S. Thermite June 25, 2018 3:15 PM  

Any reader here who still sides with Peterson over Vox hasn’t been paying attention.

Blogger Blunt Force June 25, 2018 3:26 PM  

" The situation might have been a little less bad 50 years ago "
By 1970 , all public schools were converged.

Blogger lowercaseb June 25, 2018 3:49 PM  

S. Misanthrope wrote:Anyway, keep at it, Vox. The man is dangerous and harmful.

and for purely shallow reasons, keep kicking him...because I will never get the day back I wasted reading 12 Rules last year.

Blogger Taignobias June 25, 2018 3:51 PM  

As a Lutheran, I may be predisposed to view things a certain way, but I see many parallels today with the Reformation.

The papacy is played by the globalists, who use their political power to bully others into silence and submission. They have only the power people ascribe to them, yet they are presently mighty.

The papists are played by the likes of the SJWs, who enforce the edicts of the globalists. They are quick to cry heresy and browbeat the least dissent, but they are ultimately unthinking sheep only terrifying by numbers.

The moderating papists are the likes of JBP, who speak soothingly to the masses but ultimately seek to perpetuate the power of the globalists.

You, and those like you, are the Luthers, who are vocal and passionate in decrying the overreaches, lies, and assaults of the globalist tyrrany.

And we, the ilk, are as those liberated by the ideas and teachings of Luther. We are angry at the overreaches, and increasingly actually hostile to those who serve the oppressors.

If this pattern holds, a new globalist tyrrany is due for a massive upset.

Blogger Pierre Truc June 25, 2018 3:54 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Pierre Truc June 25, 2018 3:57 PM  

A smaller child should never mock his physical superiors. And if he decides to do so, then he should put up the best fight he can, take his well-merited beating, and earn their respect thereby.

What lil' Jordy did was much worse than "mocking"...

1) He challenged the alpha monkey status of the class brute

2) He did it in public (since it was after the teacher scolded the kid, we can assume the class was dead silent and everyone heard)

3) I'll bet that the brute interpreted this as a sneaky cowardly attack, as Jordy's teacher's son status would allow him to escape retaliation...

That's a whole lot of bad karma. It isn't just an insult, I mean everyone mocks and teases... but that's an entirely new level of retardation, publicly humiliating the guy with the short fuse... it boggles the mind.

Hence "after class you're dead."

I don't understand how JP could miss this.

This may have something to do with JP's obsession with dominance hierarchies (he talks about that all the time, but strangely, not this time).

Note: Only a sadist or a retard would think it's okay to teach to your own kid in class. That's cursing the poor kid for the entire year. That's interesting info on his father.

Blogger Dave June 25, 2018 4:02 PM  

The thing is, I know that you know you have not made the case against Peterson. "Jordan Peterson is a physical coward." Really? Well, I know a guy who was given a corporate position of high responsibility, and his response was to sabotage the IT department to promote his own ambitions. SJW? Well, he says he isn't, but you know what they say about SJWs....

Vox, is this just more bafflegab or can you explain it? What does sabotaging an IT department for personal ambition have to do with cowardice and SJWs? Are they claiming this was Jordy engaged in high level corporate warfare so you're wrong to call him a coward? Or is this directed at you? What does any of this have to do with being an SJW or denying they're an SJW?

Blogger WildAss Ouellette June 25, 2018 4:03 PM  

I don’t believe his story about the Metis boy.

Blogger Anna Bouler June 25, 2018 4:18 PM  

I think they like him because he's shooting feminists in a barrel. They have a special place of hate in their heart for feminists, which I can understand. I think that's their blind spot.

Blogger Gen. Kong June 25, 2018 4:26 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:
Gen. Kong,

Where can I read more about Ezra Levant being JBP's handler?


Levant is Peterson's largest financial backer. JP booted Goldy because he was ordered to by Levant. Peterson, while shilling for UN globalism, also finds time to promote the Neo-Conman agenda (Israel über alles) at the same time. So, while he likes to talk about Solzhenitsyn, he's always careful to avoid any mention of the author's final opus. Levant even has the typical Neo-Conman's smirk - like William Kristol. Like his USSA counterparts, Levant is connected to Canada's version of the GOP - the "Conservatives" (who've managed to conserve even less of Canada than their Gay Old Pedobear counterparts). Someone should ask Crazy Christ why he supports the Israel ethno-state with imperial ambitions but opposes all other ethno-states. The links for JP and EL are from a conference celebrating the Rothschild-inspired Balfour Declaration (a high holy day for worshippers of Judeo-Christ), which of course was very well protected from Musloid protests by Canuckistan badge-gang goondas - unlike others who dare to speak against the prevailing PC religion there - yet another mark of being fake-opposition. Peterson is even more obviously fake-opposition than Levant is, but both look like part of he same song-and-dance.

Blogger Lovekraft June 25, 2018 4:39 PM  

Will be interesting to see how JP follows through on his warning of a couple years ago to the left.

A warning that they will bring forth some serious pushback should they continue poking the hornets nest.

Now, with that dingbat Maxine Waters (and he rest of the DNC supporting her) calling for more Obama-era BLM pushiness, and related warnings that there will be a body count, what will JP do?

Will he then agree that the whites/alt-right have the right to fight back, or will he cuck out?

My money is on him vanishing and going into hiding. Maybe some kibbutz has an apartment waiting for him.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 25, 2018 4:48 PM  

Taignobias wrote:As a Lutheran, I may be predisposed to view things a certain way, but I see many parallels today with the Reformation.


Now that's odd, because it looks for all the world to me like the Counter-Reformation, the West reclaiming it's heritage against the arrogant heretics, with Marx as Martin Luther, and the Frankfurt School playing the part of Calvinists.

Blogger Doomfinger June 25, 2018 4:52 PM  

Well this is interesting timing for the email. I just received some hardcopies of Arkhaven comics. I'll be buying digital versions too. Like the emailer, I too have almost all of the CH library.

I will always support. This just goes to show that some people WANT to lose because they are fucking losers.

Blogger Unknown June 25, 2018 4:52 PM  

How many pricks a rubber dinghy hold?

-Elmer B. Fudd

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 25, 2018 5:00 PM  

And now a word from Dumbfuck Central...

http://reason.com/blog/2018/06/25/red-hen-sarah-huckabee-sanders-dinner?utm_medium=email

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 25, 2018 5:07 PM  

Unknown wrote:How many pricks a rubber dinghy hold?
If you're trying for more than one, you're doing dinghies wrong.

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:And now a word from Dumbfuck Central...


Isn't Reason the magazine of the bearded fat guy that wanted to run for President in his tighty dingies?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 25, 2018 5:10 PM  

Oh yes it is, Snidely.

Blogger Raging Papist June 25, 2018 5:15 PM  

I think its that people are feeling desperate for allies. They want to see that Jordan is somehow on their side because he does not angle himself directly at them. In their eyes, as long as Jordan is not holding a gun directly at their forehead, he must not be all that bad. This also demonstrates how badly the Right has been beaten in the past--that we are willing to accept anybody so long as they don't outright hate us. Very sad and very weak.

The way they read this is: "Don't you see that he told off Bill Maher!? BILL MAHER! We all know Bill is a terrible, evil Leftist, so anyone that would stand up to him is A-OK in my book!"

OR

"JP is reading the bible! He may not be Christian, but if he pays lip service to the IDEAS of Christianity, he is worlds better than some Leftist! And who knows! He may become Christian some day!" -- Read as: "I am so desperate for ANY public, positive affirmation of Christianity that I will literally take a person giving a cursory glance at it as opposed to outright mockery and scorn. I am so tired of being crapped on for my faith. Please leave me alone"

The obvious reply is, "Why would anyone on the Right care about Bill Maher? He is an enemy who will never back down, nor will his supporters." The civ/nats and "conservatives" that support JP still have some kind of hope that Leftists may come around. Its simply not going to happen.

This is why trying to coax conservatives and civ/nats into the Right is so tedious. They are desperate for any positive outcome that does not cost the Left anything.

Blogger Alphaeus June 25, 2018 5:16 PM  

Since Jordan Peterson does not hold himself out as a Nationalist or a right winger or a Conservative or such like, I can look at him as somebody who is on the opposing side to my point of view without having any sensitive personal feelings about him. It's an easy choice for me to pick between VD and JBP, as easy as it was for me to pick between WFB and the JBS. I know what I believe, and JBP and WFB are basically enemies of what I believe. Or were as the case may be. But the difference with WFB is he pretended to be a "conservative" with patriotic feelings of loyalty to America, but he was a lying sack of Globalist instead, so, the feelings there are more personal.

Blogger Didas Kalos June 25, 2018 5:18 PM  

A wolf in Sheep's clothing is more dangerous than a mere wolf!

Blogger Al K. Annossow June 25, 2018 5:43 PM  

Didas Kalos wrote:A wolf in Sheep's clothing is more dangerous than a mere wolf!
There will always be sheep. There will always be wolves. But we could always use a few more sheepdogs to both sniff out the pretenders and attack them.

Blogger TM Lutas June 25, 2018 5:46 PM  

@82 VD, I explicitly said my comment wasn't about Peterson at all, ( "Whether you are right or wrong about your analysis of Jordan Peterson is a separate question.") but instead it was interesting to me how you approached the problem.

I'm assuming that you don't personally have it in for the man and changed your analysis method just to fail him because you didn't like the man's haircut. My working theory is that you have a common criteria of analysis and that Peterson failed tests you generally apply to everybody.

The analysis method can itself be analyzed to see whether you are accidentally right or your analysis method actually works. I don't have strong conclusions yet as to how you're proceeding. I don't know enough yet.

I had been down this road before within my own extended family (the question being at what age is character largely "locked it") and I thought that divide was interesting and worth a comment.

But it remains that 2nd chances are an American tradition.

Blogger pyrrhus June 25, 2018 5:48 PM  

" The situation might have been a little less bad 50 years ago "
By 1970 , all public schools were converged.

Yes, it happened almost overnight in the late '60s...The new US Dept of Education probably had something to do with that...but I remember that the number of National Merit Scholars at my HS dropped from the low teens to 1 or 2 within a few years, and never came back...

Blogger Cecil Henry June 25, 2018 6:06 PM  

This excerpt from Peterson's book is almost cringe worthy.

Its the kind of thing that I suspect someone told him to say, or he thought he should say, instead of something really relevant and true.

There was a time Peterson would not have sunk to these kind of examples. But with a big publisher, you can see the change.

Ug. I wish he could see how bad it looks now.

Blogger Brad Matthews June 25, 2018 6:36 PM  

Yep.

Blogger Brad Matthews June 25, 2018 6:38 PM  

This. He is promoted and rising. Lost quite a few Twitter followers by repeating your critique. Don't care. He will fall, and you will be right again.

Blogger Brad Matthews June 25, 2018 6:40 PM  

Have not seen you comment in a while

Blogger Brad Matthews June 25, 2018 6:43 PM  

"But you Jordan, who do you say that I am?"
JP "An archetype"

Blogger Vaughan Williams June 25, 2018 6:57 PM  

How big is Jordan Peterson? He's been speaking for the past few days in Vancouver to sold out crowds. To young 20-something men. A family member even went, and described the experience as "transformative" and "uplifting". And he said so when the TV news interviewed him for a "man on the street". I had him read Vox' critique of JP, but it didn't faze him, not one bit. It didn't sway or convince him.

Vox, JBP is appealing to these young men on some level. Maybe he is "edgy but safe", giving them some of the release they need, with the promise that JBP "membership" won't wreck their lives and careers. That's my best speculation so far.

Blogger Vaughan Williams June 25, 2018 6:59 PM  

JBP is being puffed right now the way Billy Graham was back in the day. I know part of the Billy Graham story that was glossed over, about his first speaking tour and how he sold out for fame, with a watered down weak Gospel, not the one he'd been trained and prepared to give.

Blogger Al K. Annossow June 25, 2018 6:59 PM  

“Rene,” said my father, “spit that gum out. You look like a cow.” “Ha, ha,” I laughed, under my breath. “Rene the cow.”

If their father taught the class, most smart kids would not take advantage of that fact to pile on against a so-called friend. Normal people instinctively understand that a semblance of neutrality on all sides is appropriate. Peterson used the situation to his advantage.

But perhaps Rene was really meant to be a protective ally. I'll go out on a limb and guess that the "complex relationship" meant that little Jordy paid for the movies. Bullies are fine, if they are on your side. But Peterson had now crossed the line in exerting an aura of superiority. He revealed that it was not really a friendship. Whatever the case, Jordy used words to screw things up and managed to use mere words to avoid the consequences: "I’m sorry" "Let’s quit fighting." He learned that expressions of 'sincerity' are effective. Rene learned a truth that day that we should take to heart: don't hang out with that Peterson kid; he'll betray you because he thinks you're a cow.

It's over-wrought, but that's my take on why that story is cringe worthy.

Blogger VD June 25, 2018 7:04 PM  

My working theory is that you have a common criteria of analysis and that Peterson failed tests you generally apply to everybody.

Yes. The prime criterion is intellectual integrity. Peterson failed it when he was first brought to my attention over the Jewish IQ issue and I picked up that unmistakable aroma of bullshit and cowardice.

I knew what I would find after that. It works every time.

Blogger Coyotewise June 25, 2018 7:12 PM  

When you've been following this blog as long as I have, you have witnessed so many of these men-from-boy separations that they barely even raise your eyebrows anymore. Any time someone claims something is a 'bad look' or complains about 'branding' they are exposed as no more than a concern troll. They don't even realize they are just a neocon stuck in the dead WF Buckley paradigm.

Many years ago VD offhandedly referred to most of National Review as Trotskeyites. It stuck with me because it seemed so bizarre. It took me years to understand what that meant though I accepted it on a gut level.

This is an interesting phase. This sort of complaint, even when sincere, registers with me as a sign that we are on a winning trajectory and it is causing panic. It's just that some of those panicking thought they were on our side and don't quite realize where they really stand.

Since the Alt-Right is inevitable I actually think the true right-wingers in the Crowder/McCinnis/Milo camp will fall out from the Shapiro/Peterson types. I can envision a growing series of 'I love Ben Shapiro but I have to disagree...' the high profile guys until finally a real rift breaks open.

I could be wrong. But then all we need is 12.

Blogger Unknown June 25, 2018 7:38 PM  

All Jesus needed was 12. Defining what "we" need and who "we" are is the forever problem. We change. Vox changes. JBP changes. Their audiences change. Heck, even the class clowns here change.

Narcissism will always look for new ways to preen and pose.

"We" don't need 12. We need the sinless One because we are filthy in we.

Blogger Lovekraft June 25, 2018 7:54 PM  

Canada is a vast land of competing ethnic interests, thanks to Justin Trudeau's father, Pierre, bringing in the third world.

Whether this was his choice alone, was assisted by socialist/communist allies, or forced from the outside is debatable (likely a combination of all three). Highly likely just a French-Canadian strategy of weakening the English influence.

So Canada has an almost non-existent unified national outlook. Harper was very impressive - balanced, economy-focused but it was the French's turn so we got Justin.

Peterson is working in this context and has likely never had the force to promote his own interests. Sure, he may walk the walk on stage and in interviews, but on Faith Goldy and the JQ, he is acting out 'broker politics.'

Blogger Alphaeus June 25, 2018 8:08 PM  

"Maybe he is "edgy but safe", giving them some of the release they need, with the promise that JBP "membership" won't wreck their lives and careers. "

Edgy but safe would be what is called an "oxymoron." If it's the beginning of a process of overcoming their brainwashing it might be a good thing, but there's a great danger that these guys will never venture beyond the limits of what society defines as the safe space.

Blogger Beau June 25, 2018 8:13 PM  

But we could always use a few more sheepdogs to both sniff out the pretenders and attack them.

Equus Pallidus is missed.

Blogger Alphaeus June 25, 2018 8:32 PM  

"VD offhandedly referred to most of National Review as Trotskeyites"

And all this time I thought he called them Troglodytes. But, the question is, does it matter?

Blogger Ahärôwn June 25, 2018 8:40 PM  

A little side point, which I imagine almost no one would notice about JP. His presentation style is very much in line with most Canadian Christian Pastors approaches. I don't expect many have met all that many Canadian pastors, but if you give JP a Southern Accent & some more hand movements, you'd recognize the approach. Canadians are just much more sedate than Southerners. However, since there is no outside-Canada exposure (normally) to Canadian religious practices.

Interesting - I'm Canadian myself, and didn't notice that until you pointed it out, but then I've only seen two of JBP's videos (one the very brief Camille Paglia one) during my research before I decided he wasn't worth my time.

You're right, but then most Canadian teachers/professors/pastors/talking heads I've seen speak this way - it' a Canadian cultural thing, and ordinarily not necessarily an issue, although in regards to the "Cult of JBP" it certainly is.

Levant is Peterson's largest financial backer

TIL, although this explains a lot. A decade ago, Levant was in many ways a entry point for me into the red pill, although I've since shifted and he's since cucked. Having said this, I just wondered if he was ever in real danger from the Alberta HRC, or was he always fake opposition too? Hmm...

Blogger James Dixon June 25, 2018 8:46 PM  

Just in case anyone thinks he's not being pushed as controlled opposition, I give you the NYT: http://archive.is/S8Qyb

Notice how he's lumped in with Ann Coulter.

Blogger Neutrinoide June 25, 2018 9:03 PM  

Peterson has no problem to admit to be a coward. Again you keep showing how shallow you are with your simplistic freedom of association principal. I'm not sure if he believes in freedom of association or first principal. To have listen to alot of his talk. His approach is more like. Society X allow or is again Y and the society seem to bring peace ans prosperity. Btw I found alot thing false about some of his talk. But if your gonna all virtuous critic knight on him try to understand his context which clearly you don't understand.

Blogger Blume June 25, 2018 9:54 PM  

Nueter vox was addressing a jbp fan boys criticism of vox. If Peterson admits this then jbp's own words condemn him and vindicate vox.

Blogger Cloom Glue June 25, 2018 9:56 PM  

Lovekraft wrote:
So Canada ...
Harper was very impressive - balanced, economy-focused but it was the French's turn so we got Justin.


Harper was a cuckservative globalist: He said he was going to bring in 35,000 Syrian immigrants, flooded us with a big foreigner-Canadians quota, same as Liberals, but tweaking rules to make Liberal policy work the Liberal way. He introduced the anti-fifth amendment, which is one year jail time for failing to speak under interrogation. He fought Obama's war in Libya and also did some initial help in Syria, apparently influence by Israeli propaganda, including backing the retracted Obama air-strike on Syria. Harper allowed the gun confiscation during the Alberta flood, expanded the housing bubble with 40yr mortages, failing to rein in CMHC insurance of the bubble. He never attacked any liberal social policy, considering himself "pragmatic" to avoid many issues; ie. conserved nothing; killed the direct investment in flow-through shares (I forget the name of them), contrary to his promise. He nurtured Liberal party policy babies, like a cuckhold, ruling from the centre they call it.

Blogger Cloom Glue June 25, 2018 10:09 PM  

Highly likely just a French-Canadian strategy of weakening the English influence.

It weakened Quebec/french nationalism. Levesque lost the referendum because Quebec was flooded with foreigner-Canadians, such as French speaking Haitians, and he bemoaned foreigners that night. Criticising the foreigner-Canadians caused outrage on TV and mildly so, at my workplace that next day. I am sorry for the English who live in Quebec, but that can't be resolved, and I would be sorry for the French if they weren't such extreme socialist secularists.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 25, 2018 10:12 PM  

Harper is being rehabilitated for the next false choice after Justine.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 25, 2018 11:10 PM  

"I don’t believe his story about the Metis boy."

Finally someone mentions the elephant in the room. That kid didn't break down crying and run off. Or if he did, it's because Peterson's dad had just shown up and threatened to punish him or something like that.

Blogger S. Thermite June 25, 2018 11:40 PM  

That kid didn't break down crying and run off.

Didn’t pass the smell test to me either, but then I remembered I’ve never had a future messiah laugh at me and then want to watch a movie with me in the same day.

Truly his love doth bloweth cold and then hot. Whichest of thou can standeth against the countenance of the lobster?

Blogger S. Thermite June 26, 2018 12:05 AM  

To clarify my earlier comment that those who still side with Peterson over Vox haven’t been paying attention- I meant they haven’t been paying attention to Vox’s criticisms of Peterson on this blog. In the beginning I also expressed considerable disappointment towards Vox for attacking Peterson, and if it wasn’t for Vox’s thorough takedown I’d likely still be a Peterson fanboy.

In that regard, “Jordanetics” was especially effective rhetoric...I used to wonder what sort of idiot would fall for the teachings of a cult founder like L. Ron Hubbard. Now I’m thinking many of those “idiots” may not have been so different from me.

Blogger Daniel Babylon June 26, 2018 1:25 AM  

Is Vox the first the first right-winger to attack Jordan Peterson? I know hindsight is 20/20 and now it's clear that Peterson is just spewing syllables in the shape of a lunatic's ramblings, but I cannot recall anybody outright calling Jordan wrong before Vox.

Blogger Markku June 26, 2018 3:31 AM  

Unlike Jordan, Jordy did nothing wrong

Blogger Markku June 26, 2018 3:31 AM  

Also babbled less

Blogger Resident Moron™ June 26, 2018 4:37 AM  

Having only seen him arguing with the rabid left I was initially interested in what he had to say. When he sticks to research data, as in his point about female career choices in scandinavian countries, he’s pretty straight.

So I bought his book and tried to read it but couldn’t get beyond the first chapter and a half. It was a couple of days after I deleted it in disgust that Vox fired his opening round in the war on Jordanetics, putting clarity and logic to what was until then a purely instinctive reaction.

JBP is like an eye test; once you see tge pattern you can’t unsee it.

Blogger CoolHand June 26, 2018 4:50 AM  

Back in early 2017 the first of his Personality lecture series popped up in the recommended videos feed on YouTube, so I clicked and listened.

It was strange, but since I didn't take any psych in college, I went ahead and listened to the whole series, fourteen or fifteen 90min lectures in all.

By the end I remember thinking to myself, "None of that made any sense."

So I listened to the the Joe Rogan appearance he made, in which he said all the same shit, and it STILL didn't make any sense.

And it was like that with every video of his I watched. Same points presented in the same way (as if they pointed conclusively to the point he was supposedly making), and still not actually proving or even really properly outlining a coherent point.

That gave me doubts, and then he (the supposed free speech advocate) helped to deplatform Faith Goldy using the EXACT same reasoning that the left had been using to deplatform him.

That's when I gave up on the guy entirely.

I will admit that the lobster bit is amusing as he tells it, but that's not a reason to follow the man over a cliff.

Comedians tell funny stories too, and some of them are even true, but that doesn't mean I'd follow them either.

All of the above having been the case, I found VD's notice and subsequent evisceration of JBP to be exceedingly well timed and funny as hell.

I was already off the wagon by that point, and just in time to watch VD pull up beside it in a dumptruck and sideswipe them off a cliff.

Most amusing indeed.

Vox may be many things, but a weathervane is not one of them. It's a quality that I find most refreshing in someone with his high profile.

He's not walking the wide and easy way, that is for sure.

His track record in the years I've followed him gives me faith in his judgement, and I see nothing in the case he's made against JBP to make me doubt it now.

Blogger Duke Norfolk June 26, 2018 7:11 AM  

M. Bibliophile wrote:He is more dangerous than a foaming moonbat because his goals are no different, but his tactics are to shut the moonbat up so that we go back to sleep and let the Globalists rebuild Babel.

Nice succinct summation. This is the thing to stay focused on.

Blogger TM Lutas June 26, 2018 8:14 AM  

@153 VD - It is a mystery to me why you would even bother testing for intellectual integrity from a self-described centrist. The two are oxymorons. In my experience, centrists hedge. It's part of who they are.

That being said, I don't see how you get to a durable win to remake society on a more sustainable basis without the centrists. Hedging does seem to have pro-survival consequences so it's probably here to stay in our lifetimes.

I count JBP doing good work knocking people off the conga line of hedgers dancing to the pied piper of a short-term, destructive, dead-end leftism. He knocks them out of left-wing epistemic closure. That's enough for me to give qualified approval. It obviously is not enough for you.

What is your rule/criteria for fellow travelers whom you're not going to metaphorically rip their faces off?

Blogger VD June 26, 2018 10:13 AM  

What is your rule/criteria for fellow travelers whom you're not going to metaphorically rip their faces off?

Actually be a fellow traveler. What part of JORDAN PETERSON IS A GODLESS GLOBALIST IN LEAGUE WITH THE SATANIST PEDOPHILES do you find hard to grasp. FFS, what he is pushing is considerably worse than mere SJW insanity.

Blogger Cluttermonkey June 26, 2018 11:13 AM  

Well like you used to say, if you‘re not getting flak, you‘re not over the target.

Seriously, if the man‘s own words isn‘t enough to convince some of those „that got redpilled“ in the last 3 to 5 years, or they find nothing wrong with it, then they most certainly also want globohomo gayplex, just not as quickly as the rest of the left want. Wheat separating from the chaff.

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit June 26, 2018 1:36 PM  

Leaving aside whether Vox Day is entirely correct about Jordan Peterson (time will tell) since humility can seem like cowardice from the outside, there's this:

My response was, well, Vox claims it isn't. But he also claims that about Scalzi and Shapiro.

The mot juste there would have been "and". Scalzi in particular, as Vox Day got the man to pay for his own defeat, after Scalzi decided he could safely pull a Nielsen-Haden and claim a conservative scalp. Ben Shapiro picked a fight and ran away. Mr. Peterson is different, but if the pattern is the thing, jealously isn't it.

I suspect the "bad look" is because Peterson didn't pick a fight with Vox Day. For the majority of people Alt Right = the actual storm thumper neo-Nazis. We all lost that part of the language propaganda war. Again. So why go after him so hard? Lots of lefties are heading rightward (i.e.towards sanity) at different speeds. And if Vox Day is correct, this man is really hurting, and kicking someone - even on a blog where doing so can only help Mr. Peterson - appears uncharitable.

IFF I were to answer it would be that Mr. Peterson could be a dangerous fraud still seeking a way to have safety from Hell, and the fruits of Heaven without Heaven's God. And he has a ready audience for that deadly lie. The political version of this error is also on the table.

But... time will tell.


Blogger Matthew June 26, 2018 3:58 PM  

By all means, continue to thrash Mssr. Peterson. But ignoring Carthage would have been preferable to what Rome did.

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