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Sunday, June 03, 2018

The nationalist Third Republic

The EU blinked and accepted the Left-Right nationalist alliance rather than risk a La Lega government.
Italy’s new populist leaders commemorated the founding of the Italian republic by attending a pomp-filled military parade Saturday — and then promised to get to work creating jobs and expelling migrants.

“The free ride is over,” League leader Matteo Salvini, Italy’s new interior minister, warned migrants at a rally in northern Italy. “It’s time to pack your bags.”

The pledge of mass deportations to come was a reminder that Italy has a staunchly anti-immigrant, right-wing party in its governing coalition — and that the European Union will face a whole new partner governing its fourth-largest economy.

Earlier, Salvini joined Premier Giuseppe Conte and the rest of the newly sworn-in Cabinet to view the Republic Day parade. Italy’s aeronautic acrobatic squad flew low and loud over downtown Rome trailing smoke in the red, white and green of the Italian flag.

The national pride on display is a feature of every Republic Day, but it took on a particular significance this year after Italy on Friday ended three months of political and financial turmoil and swore in a government whose populist and euroskeptic leanings have alarmed Europe.

Conte, a law professor plucked from relative obscurity to head an unlikely governing alliance of the anti-establishment 5-Star Movement and League, said the celebrations Saturday transcended all the tensions of recent days.

“It’s the celebration for all of us, of our republic,” he said.

Conte’s Cabinet was sworn in after a last-minute deal averted the threat of a new election that could have turned into a referendum on whether Italy stayed with the shared European euro currency. The political stability relieved financial markets on Friday but Italy’s European neighbors continued to express concerns about the euroskeptic bent and the heavy spending agenda of Italy’s new government.... The political upheaval that has created western Europe’s first populist government this week has been dubbed the start of Italy’s Third Republic.
I think I would have preferred another election, but the fact that Salvini is still the interior minister is the most important thing. And it wasn't exactly as if the Italians took the EU's objection to Paolo Savona lying down, instead, they took trolling to new heights by naming him to the Ministry for European Affairs in place of the Treasury. The thing is, it took a while for Italy to get into the Euro, and they're not going to extricate the nation from it overnight. The most important thing is for the new government to deliver on the promised deportations. As long as it does that, La Lega will be in a stronger position in the next election cycle.

And, of course, this being Italy, the chances are about 85 percent that the new government won't last a year anyhow. It is tremendously encouraging, however, to see that the eurocrats are so desperate to avoid a popular referendum on the Euro. They know they would lose, because most Italians would prefer to go back to the Lira, despite what the new Minister of the Treasury says.
Italy's new finance minister Giovanni Tria is a political economy professor whose policies dovetail with those of the far-right League party, with one crucial exception: he wants Italy to stick with the euro. This is an important distinction from Paolo Savona who was previously touted for the job and whose hostility to Italy's eurozone membership turned out to be a dealbreaker for Italy's president. But although Tria wrote on the Formiche analysis website that it was "not in our interests to leave", he also said that the eurozone needed to be reformed. "Before saying why I think that we must reply 'no' to the question of a euro exit, I would start from the question 'what are the conditions for the euro's survival', so we can move in the opposite direction of any breakup," Tria said.
Except that's not quite what he said.

"Tra tutti i partiti italiani, sia all’opposizione che al governo, non ho sentito una sola forza politica che dica che voglia uscire dall’euro. Questa è la verità: il mondo deve prenderne atto" 

"Throughout all the Italian parties, including the opposition and the government, I have not heard a single political force that says it wants to exit the Euro. This is the truth: the world must take note."

I found this statement more significant.  Sembra di essere tornati ai tempi in cui Maynard Keynes criticava i vecchi ortodossi.

"It feels as if we have returned to the times in which John Maynard Keynes criticized the old orthodoxy."

In other words, no major political party has made it an official policy... yet. My take is that he's warning the Eurocrats that either they shape up fast or Italy ships out. And I am quite sure that he knows they have no intention whatsoever of shaping up. And, as I've already mentioned, Italy intends to deal with the migrant situation first. If the EU gets in the way of that, then Italy will leave both the Euro and the European Union.

Labels:

43 Comments:

Blogger TheMaleRei June 03, 2018 6:28 AM  

Sink the boats.

With some good fortune the countdown timer has started.

Blogger Mark Stoval June 03, 2018 6:43 AM  

Good news indeed.

One thing that I noticed is that Italian politicians refer to their government as a Republic while USA politicians always refer to our government as a "democracy".

The USA needs to realize, like the founders did, that democracy is horrible. We need to be a Republic.

Blogger tuberman June 03, 2018 7:15 AM  

Been following this, and it sounds very good.

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira June 03, 2018 7:18 AM  

This "anti-immigrant" behaviour must cease.

Blogger Peaceful Poster June 03, 2018 7:49 AM  

The thing is, it took a while for Italy to get into the Euro, and they're not going to extricate the nation from it overnight.

It might indeed have to be a stealth overnight move to convert all bank/investment accounts from Euros to Liras. Otherwise, wouldn't there be a bank run?

Let's say the conversion is at par, i.e. one Lira for one Euro. The next day, the Lira will probably be trading well below par.

If I were an Italian, I'd be keeping my Euros in cash at this point, or in accounts outside the country.

Blogger Avalanche June 03, 2018 7:57 AM  

@4 "This "anti-immigrant" behaviour must cease."

Yes, and become "remove-immigrant" behavior.

Blogger Salt June 03, 2018 7:58 AM  

I trust the Italians to head towards the exit than the Brits to actually Brexit.

Blogger JACIII June 03, 2018 8:03 AM  

American leftists always overreach and Eurocrats can't stop doing shit that is yanking the rug out from under their own feet.
Like indians and firewater, a little taste and they go on a bender with other peoples wealth and draconian regulation.

Blogger Michael O'Duibhir June 03, 2018 8:11 AM  

@4

Huh?

Blogger SciVo June 03, 2018 8:16 AM  

Peaceful Poster wrote:It might indeed have to be a stealth overnight move to convert all bank/investment accounts from Euros to Liras. Otherwise, wouldn't there be a bank run?

That isn't how it works. One assumes that they would do it like the adoption of the euro but in reverse, with a transition period where prices are in both and you can use either. And there is no reason why accounts would be forcibly converted; that is a bizarre supposition.

Blogger seeingsights June 03, 2018 8:16 AM  

Mass deportations will be a sight to behold.
The lame stream media will cover it, and try to put it in a negative light. But that type of coverage will fail. The large majority of people in Italy and in other countries will approve.
It will also put the EU in a bind. The EU would have two options: 1. Do nothing but watch. 2. Try to fight the deportations, which will increase the chances of separation of Italy from the EU.

Blogger Solon June 03, 2018 8:18 AM  

Pray tell, by what authority do you claim to presume to be able to tell Italians that they cannot have their country be specifically for Italians?

That is an honest question. I'll assume you aren't Chinese by your tag, so humour me here: do you honestly believe that you could move to China, and thus claim to be Chinese, and then have Chinese people not laugh in your face and tell you to shut up and go away?

Italians have every right to tell non-Italians to get the hell out of their country, just as Chinese do, just as Americans or British or any nation.

This "one race, one nation," John Lennon-esque nonsense has been overwhelmingly shown to be exactly that: nonsense.

Xenophobia is evolutionarily standard; it is a feature of humans, not a bug.

Blogger Steve June 03, 2018 8:21 AM  

Tremendous news. The dagos are natural shitlords, and I look forward to their italic high jinks. Between this and Brexit (still trundling on despite the best efforts of Theresa May) and Trump completely pulling the rug out from under them on trade, foreign affairs and defence, the Ancien Regime in Brussels should start looking at what countries don't have an extradition treaty with Western European nations.

They won't, of course. But they should.

Blogger Doktor Jeep June 03, 2018 8:23 AM  

I was in Bergamo last year.
The city center was clogged with migrants.
The prostitutes running about at night were migrants. So were the pimps.
The people stealing everything that's not nailed down do that even upscale houses have bars on the windows and apartment / condo front doors look like the back doors of businesses in South Bronx are migrants.
Then occasionally the belligerent man or two accompanied by a woman in a burka.
They will never be Italians. Even Sicilians have a hard time qualifying as Italians north of Calabrese.
And the local dialect in the north sounds almost Germanic.

The USA may have missed the ethnostate boat (lesson one: use only white Irish slaves next time. Lesson two: only people with skin on the game with at least three post citizenship generations should get a vote. Oh well, maybe after the civil war....) but Italy is a white ethnostate, has every right to be, and should do whatever it takes to maintain it.

Blogger The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey June 03, 2018 8:27 AM  

I will be very excited to see the imagery of Italian conducting mass deportations. If they do, there is no way these images won't be emblazoned critically by the MSM all over the West, in a "Oh, the humanity!" sort of way.

But I think it will wind up inspiring regular people all over the West to see something many have cynically come to believe isn't possible. Italy will be seen to say, "We have led the way. And you can, too!"

Blogger Solon June 03, 2018 8:28 AM  

The globalist experiment is finally coming to an end: people are coming to their senses and realizing that importing third worlders into a first world country does not make them first worlders, it makes their country third world. The "magic dirt" lie has been exposed.

Would that my own people, Americans, could take a lesson from Italy, Poland, Hungary, Russia, China, et. al., and rid ourselves of our own immigrant problems. Unfortunately, I suspect that will be a long time out from now: we Americans were founded by immigrants and have been a world power for far too long; we're far too proud to admit that we messed up in letting non-white, non-christian people stay in our country long term.

Only when the bullets start flying will we realize that to be American means to be white and hold Christian values.

Blogger Peaceful Poster June 03, 2018 8:30 AM  

@10 SciVo - That isn't how it works. One assumes that they would do it like the adoption of the euro but in reverse, with a transition period where prices are in both and you can use either.

Makes cents. Thanks.

Blogger het1 June 03, 2018 8:45 AM  

to Mark Stoval

> while USA politicians always refer to our government as a "democracy".

Not at all. Say, Lansing Hoyt chairman of American Action (former America First Committee in Wisconsin, supporters of Joe McCarthy) once said that word "democracy" have been discredited because it have used by the enemies of American people, and for USA we prefer word "republic". McCarthy himself once said that "word "democracy" have a clear spot of national treason.

Blogger Steve June 03, 2018 9:36 AM  

But I think it will wind up inspiring regular people all over the West to see something many have cynically come to believe isn't possible. Italy will be seen to say, "We have led the way. And you can, too!"

Yarp. A yuge part of the invasion's strength lies in politicians and the media presenting it as inevitable and irreversible - unthinkable, even, to reverse it.

But it's not like putting a man on the Moon. We have these things called vehicles, we have these things called policemen, and we have this thing called welfare. Cutting off subsidies to the parasites, rounding them up, and deporting them is low tech, cheap, and almost trivially easy once the political will is there.

We could make Europe kebab-and-dashiki-free in six months if we wanted to. What are they gonna do?

Blogger eyeslevel June 03, 2018 11:17 AM  

The incoming government faces a massive debt overhang. On the June 1, 2018 edition of RT’s Crosstalk, Professor Marco Bassani of Milan University makes an interesting claim. @21:13 “Actually they let Italy go on with their immense national debt if they agreed that in the past 5 years they would let anyone in and in fact more than 600,000 people got in this country in five or six years”

https://youtu.be/e5B1Wac0-iU?t=1270

If we look at the actions of the European Central Bank (ECB) in the last few years, their bond purchases did indeed favor Italy (and Spain).

https://www.zew.de/en/presse/pressearchiv/ezb-anleihekaeufe-beguenstigen-vor-allem-suedeuropaeische-laender/

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-italy-faces-worst-shock-in-europe-as-ecb-prepares-to-taper-bond-buys-2017-10-24

So politicians are being allowed to borrow money far beyond what they normally would be able to borrow to fund diversity, to bribe voters into acquiescence and to make them dependent on the European Union.

Italy’s debt is 130% of annual GDP, one of the highest in the world. Traditionally, markets stop loaning to governments when their debt reaches about 95% of annual GDP. So it makes sense that the ECB bought virtually all of Italy’s new debt issuance. What they buy they can stop buying or even sell. If rates go up too much, that makes financing new debt impossible.

The French Revolution began as a dispute over how to pay off France’s massive debt.

So the ECB has Italy in a stranglehold. They can make the government incapable of paying it's bills. If we see the coalition backslide on their campaign promises, particularly the promise to deport illegals, this is probably the reason.

All nationalists face this issue that when we take power we’ll be inheriting massive debts run up by our enemies to fund diversity. Italy can’t print euros but they could print lira. It would cause huge inflation, but that’s one option. Or they could just default. But that debt is owned directly or indirectly by a lot of ordinary citizens in pension plans, backing bank deposits, and they would be hurt by a default.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd June 03, 2018 11:22 AM  

Steve wrote:Yarp. A yuge part of the invasion's strength lies in politicians and the media presenting it as inevitable and irreversible - unthinkable, even, to reverse it.

But it's not like putting a man on the Moon. We have these things called vehicles


We imported 100 million since 1965. We could export 100 million in the next 50 years. We could do it in 5 years if we pushed the pace just a little.

Want to push the pace a little? When you meet an immigrant, wish him a good trip home.

Blogger Were-Puppy June 03, 2018 11:22 AM  

@11 seeingsights
Mass deportations will be a sight to behold.
---

The MSM won't be able to resist covering it and whining about muh racism.

And everyone in the rest of the world will be watching thinking "Why aren't we doing that here ? "

Blogger English Tom June 03, 2018 11:23 AM  

@Avalanche

Yes. And hunt the traitors who visited the turd world upon us. Hunt them to extinction.

Blogger English Tom June 03, 2018 11:30 AM  

@Eyeslevel

I think default (not just Italy but systemically global) is inevitable. Where's DC Sunsets when we need him?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd June 03, 2018 11:30 AM  

eyeslevel wrote:
So the ECB has Italy in a stranglehold. They can make the government incapable of paying it's bills. If we see the coalition backslide on their campaign promises, particularly the promise to deport illegals, this is probably the reason.


Default. It worked for Argentina how many times now?

eyeslevel wrote:
All nationalists face this issue that when we take power we’ll be inheriting massive debts run up by our enemies to fund diversity.


Search on the term odious debt.

Blogger kurt9 June 03, 2018 11:45 AM  

The Italians should send all of their migrants to Brussels. That might motivate the EU mandarins to do something about the problem.

Blogger Brett baker June 03, 2018 12:14 PM  

Northern Italians ARE Germans. All those non-Catholic Christians that overran Italy after 376 were Germanic. They stole the nice part of Italy, and made it theirs.

Blogger Brett baker June 03, 2018 12:16 PM  

So Machiavelli's plea at the end of The Prince is finally answered?

Blogger Brett baker June 03, 2018 12:17 PM  

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Blogger seeingsights June 03, 2018 12:50 PM  

Concerning the debts that Italy owes to the ECB: if push comes to shove, Italy can conquer Belgium.

https://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=italy

Blogger DonReynolds June 03, 2018 1:13 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger DonReynolds June 03, 2018 1:15 PM  

Not all European countries use the Euro for currency, the UK being perhaps the most significant. They still use the British Pound and do not react well when you offer to pay with Euros.

No doubt that was part of the Brexit decision by British voters...the relative ease of exiting the EU because the currency would not need to be changed or replaced.

Blogger DonReynolds June 03, 2018 1:34 PM  

Solon wrote:Unfortunately, I suspect that will be a long time out from now: we Americans were founded by immigrants and have been a world power for far too long; we're far too proud to admit that we messed up in letting non-white, non-christian people stay in our country long term.

Only when the bullets start flying will we realize that to be American means to be white and hold Christian values.


I suspect you watch too much television or read too many newspapers. The USA was not founded or settled or created or pioneered by immigrants.....at all. An immigrant is a person who goes to another country to live. America was NOT a foreign country for people from Britain, it was England and those who went to the colonies were guaranteed by the Crown that their status would not change. British subjects could relocate from one to the other freely and the society was a copy of the same society they left behind. From 1617 until 1783, there were no British immigrants in the USA. It was only AFTER the American Revolutionary that people coming from the UK could be considered immigrants. The Founding Stock of the USA separated themselves from the British Crown and created a new nation. They were never immigrants.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 03, 2018 1:56 PM  

DonReynolds,

I was just accosted by one of these retards on Instagram the other day. They want you to consider their tribes to be countries or nations in the western sense. They ascribe a western understanding of nations and countries, to include land, to their tribes, so then they can say we took "their" land and country. Of course, the Ojibwe, Huron, Mohawk, Sioux, etc. tribes were nowhere close to the Western conception of nations or countries. I don't even think they had a conception of private property. These comparisons break down when examined, but they want you to think that way, to give their claims some legitimacy.

Blogger LogicTsunami June 03, 2018 3:01 PM  

An interesting article from Zero hedge related to this:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-03/war-erupts-between-italys-government-and-soros-you-profited-death-hundreds-people

Blogger VD June 03, 2018 3:06 PM  

They want you to consider their tribes to be countries or nations in the western sense. They ascribe a western understanding of nations and countries, to include land, to their tribes, so then they can say we took "their" land and country.

You did take our land. There is no question whatsoever about it. That's why there was 300 years of Indian Wars fought on the continent.

The fact that no Indian tribe was a signatory to the Treaty of Westphalia doesn't change that.

Your clueless "well, they didn't define it the way we did" is not only ridiculous, it means you have no defense whatsoever against the UN's claim of planetary sovereignty. See, you just don't have a proper global understanding of global governance....

Blogger Ominous Cowherd June 03, 2018 5:06 PM  

@34 the Ironquois might well have had something like our concept of nation.

Blogger Mark Stoval June 03, 2018 6:04 PM  

There was a "Nick" who wrote this a Z-Man's blog today. I really thought it hit the mark.

"Meritocracy is like hate speech. It depends on who’s defining merit. I would rather be ruled by aristocrats who were “born to rule” than by people who think they earned it. It seems like aristocracy creates doubt, thoughtfulness and oblesse oblige rather than the certainty and spite meritocracy produces. it seems to me that aristocracy would also create a kind of tribal loyalty that global meritocrats can not understand."

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 03, 2018 7:02 PM  

VD wrote:They want you to consider their tribes to be countries or nations in the western sense. They ascribe a western understanding of nations and countries, to include land, to their tribes, so then they can say we took "their" land and country.

You did take our land. There is no question whatsoever about it. That's why there was 300 years of Indian Wars fought on the continent.

The fact that no Indian tribe was a signatory to the Treaty of Westphalia doesn't change that.

Your clueless "well, they didn't define it the way we did" is not only ridiculous, it means you have no defense whatsoever against the UN's claim of planetary sovereignty. See, you just don't have a proper global understanding of global governance....


Where is the right dividing line between accepting the other party's definitions of things? How much cultural subjectivity should we accept?

My point was did Native Americans think of land, nations and ownership like Westerners did before we got here, or were those foreign concepts?

Was the guy/girl/thing I was talking to just using the verbiage to be able to relate to me and my Western mindset? How do we define what "our land" is? Vox, You've defined it recently as only land you can defend or hold on to by force. Did the Ojibwe take it from another tribe? How do you sort out all of these claims to land, such as in Mexico?

I am from Texas, so I have the proverbial drop of whatever blood. Doesn't matter when talking to the complaining party, though. Let's say I accept the criticisms at face value. How are Americans supposed to accommodate her? Leave? And go where?

As far as the UN's claims, Islam claims the same thing. I give zero fucks about what the UN or Islam claim. Muslims took most of Spain from the natives, who had taken it from others. The Moors then named it Andalusia, then claimed it as their own. The Spaniards took it back, but Islam still claims Spain as theirs.

Anyone can make any claim they want to. I am under no obligation to honor or entertain crazy claims.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 03, 2018 7:41 PM  

Vox,

I am rereading my initial comment, and your response to me, to make sure I answer your comment directly. I look at the world through Western eyes, being a Westerner, so absolutely the white man invaded and took their property. Doesn't matter what the native american thought. By our standards, we took their land.

So my ultimate question is, what did the Huron, Sioux or Chanhasset native think as this was happening? How did they see it? Did they think the yankees were taking their land, hunting grounds, etc,?

And I don't care. Because I don't see what we are supposed to be able to do about it.

Blogger eyeslevel June 03, 2018 9:40 PM  

Nationalists came out on top in the Slovenian election.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/03/anti-immigrant-party-tipped-victory-divisive-slovenian-election/

Blogger Solon June 03, 2018 9:52 PM  

You're absolutely correct, and I apologize for my possibly misleading original comment about America being formed from immigrants. We were British to begin with.

At a certain time line though (as you say, after 1783), we were declared as Americans. But then you have to consider everyone who came AFTER that as immigrants. There can be no doubt that the Germans, Italians, French, and even black slaves contributed to building up this country though. New York had a huge population of Italians and Irishmen. Still does to this day, really.

So the problem then becomes one of definition: at what point has someone been here long enough to say "yes, I am American, and have no ties to my former Homeland?" How many generations need to pass for a child to have no concept of nationality other than the one they were born into? Two generations? Four?

My great grandparents emigrated to America from Poland just before world war 2 (good on them for reading the writing on the wall, I likely wouldn't be here if they hadn't). However, I have never been to Poland, would never consider myself Polish, and view Polish achievements from an extremely detached perspective ("alright, go slavs, send all them migrants back where they came from!")

I was born American, I will die American, and nothing of my great grandparents culture remains in me but my skin color and my name. Heck, I only know about four or five Polish words.

Would you still consider me an immigrant?

That was where my original comment was, I believe, directed: when does one stop being an immigrant and start belonging to a nation?

It's all well and good to say "kick out today's immigrants," and I agree, the Somalis in Minnesota and the Mexicans in Texas are not Americans. But there is a very large gap between Mexicans who moved her five years ago and Mexicans who have been here for five generations.

Where do we draw the line?

Blogger Solon June 03, 2018 10:07 PM  

There is the old adage about "might makes right," Vox seems to believe in that ideal as well, that land belongs to whoever can take it and hold it.

The native American tribes had a moral right, nay, an obligation even, to defend themselves and their land from us foreign Invaders. They tried, Lord knows they tried, the Indian Wars, the Iroquois League, the rapes, murders, and pillages of American settlers as they moved west.

They failed to defend their land and their culture. If we go by "might makes right," then they no longer have any claim to the land, as we Americans took it from them by force.

If we do NOT follow the concept of might makes right, then still, there's not really anything to be done about it. One can screech on and on about "war crimes" and "immoral treatment of native tribes" but at the end of the day, the only solution would be to, what, walk away? Say to them "hey, our bad, all of us white folks will just pack up and leave St. Louis and you can have it all back."

That's not going to happen. America has been claimed by the white man at gunpoint, and the Native American tribes are doomed to die out and be assimilated. They had their chance, and history will remember them, but history also remembers the Aztecs and Babylonians and countless other cultures that died out.

They had a right to protect their culture, and they failed to do so. Italy has a right to defend it's culture, and it is doing so today.

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