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Monday, July 02, 2018

Darkstream: there is no alternative



From the edited transcript.

What we have to recognize when we're talking about the Right is that the ideology that hitherto was the leading expression of right-wing politics in the United States, the conservative movement, is effectively dead. Donald Trump killed it.

And it's not so much that Donald Trump killed it as he exposed the fact that it was an ideological zombie vampire, and the dates 1951 to 2016 that you see on the tombstone date from that first famous book of William F Buckley, the founder of the modern conservative movement, and its end with the presidential election of 2016. Because the legacy of conservativism is this: it never conserved anything! And that is the most damning thing that you can say about all the conservative organizations, all the conservative opinion leaders all the various Republican groups, all that kind of stuff, all of it was a failure. None of it conserved anything.

Conservatives couldn't even conserve the ladies room. This is an illustration of how badly how completely the conservative movement has failed, and if you talk to a conservative, they love to talk about the Constitution, and yet what they always ignore is the purpose of the Constitution. We have seen that the Constitution has completely and utterly failed in its purpose, a purpose that is stated very clearly in the Preamble. The Preamble states that the purpose of the Constitution is to defend the rights of American posterity, and what "posterity" means is the direct genetic descendants of the people who established the country in 1789.

It does not refer to immigrants, it does not refer to refugees, it does not refer to the descendants of those immigrants who came over much later. You know, this is something that I got in some very intense discussions and arguments with various conservatives(1) who are genuinely good people, genuinely smart people, but they are entirely unable to wrap their heads around the fact that their friends, their family members, people they like, people they approve of, are not and never will be American posterity, and that the Constitution was not written for those people. It wasn't. This is a basic fact, this is an established fact, and the amount of intellectual dishonesty and self-deception that one has to engage in in order to deny the very clear meaning of these words is rather remarkable.

So you know, now we see the same concept being expanded further and further, and what's funny about conservatives is that while at the one hand they push away and they deny the actual historical meaning of various concepts, they also try to deny the obvious consequences of their own positions. You know, if you're running around saying that because all men are created equal that 19th century immigrants therefore equal and their descendants therefore qualify as American posterity, then you cannot deny the position of Iranian president Ahmadinejad who says that America belongs to all the world and that the American government does not have any right or  any ability to deny the movement of people into the United States of America. That is the absolutely correct logical conclusion to the conservative argument.

(1) In the public sense, this primarily refers to my debate on Posterity with Tom Kratman. If you take issue with any of my assertions here, I strongly recommend that you read it first before commenting on this issue.

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58 Comments:

Blogger Mister Excitement July 02, 2018 1:05 PM  

This was an excellent Darksteam, Vox. I've watched it 3 times already.

I'm certainly not alone in my disappointment in how Conservatism ended. It's like losing an old friend.

It's crushing to contemplate that one's lifetime political beliefs are flawed.

Blogger Jamie-R July 02, 2018 1:08 PM  

I think I'll speak for conservatives when one realises that, like Alex Jones, what Q has alluded to out there is not interested in reason, policy, or 'best way forward', it may be satirical to talk of the ZOG simulation but it still befuddles most on the Right. They don't accept it exists, or has ever existed. And that conservatives are not battling a movement whose only intention is to undermine reason & good policy. You see these rumblings in history, yet no one puts 2 and 2 together that something was awry in late 19th century Russia, or throughout Germany at the same time, or in France prior to both of them. They were all fruitful grounds for what America happens to be dealing with in the last 50 years. The World Wars led to migrations, & now America is suffering from very unAmerican things. But no one understands why. History's reasons are there to be unpackaged for the curious.

Blogger Hammerli280 July 02, 2018 1:10 PM  

I think the weakness of Buckleyite Conservatism was that it was a fraud. A rent-seeking operation on the part of WFB and his successors, who were more concerned with getting their payoff and controlling "tone" than with actually accomplishing anything.

You can't have a political philosophy whose fundamental principles are all negatives. You can't just stand AGAINST something, you must also stand FOR something.

Blogger Hammerli280 July 02, 2018 1:12 PM  

@1: It's not that our lifetime political beliefs were flawed, it's that we were betrayed by the rent-seekers and the globalist looters.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 02, 2018 1:26 PM  

No, Hammerli. Just no. It's inherently flawed. All of the sincere conservative thinkers can't save it.

Blogger Resident Moron™ July 02, 2018 1:27 PM  

From the leader of a country whose role in modern geopolitics is to be the neocon cabal of the war party's perpetual whipping boy, that was pretty good trolling from Ahmadinejad.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 02, 2018 1:33 PM  

Hammerli280 wrote:@1: It's not that our lifetime political beliefs were flawed,...

Yes, fatally flawed. Consider Chesterton's description of conservatism: it's the progressives' job to make mistakes, and it's the conservatives' job to enshrine and conserve those mistakes.

Be a reactionary if you want to restore what we once had, but never be a conservative, unless you really like open borders and gay marriage and 57 ``genders'' and the rest of our current Leftist dystopia.

Blogger pyrrhus July 02, 2018 1:38 PM  

This is why the results of modern genetic anthropology are so hated by the left and also the neocons and their ilk....What has emerged from DNA analysis is that invading groups, like the Aryans who conquered India, kill all the men and boys, and mate with some of the remaining women. In some older conquests, even the women's DNA disappeared.Annihilation of the losing group was SOP..Two thirds of European men are descended from three (3!) Bronze Age chieftains.....So kumbaya didn't just leave the building, it was never in the building.

Blogger James Dixon July 02, 2018 1:40 PM  

> It's not that our lifetime political beliefs were flawed, it's that we were betrayed by the rent-seekers and the globalist looters.

If the principles weren't flawed they wouldn't have been able to subvert them so easily.

Blogger Resident Moron™ July 02, 2018 1:51 PM  

Hammerli280 wrote:@1: It's not that our lifetime political beliefs were flawed, it's that we were betrayed by the rent-seekers and the globalist looters.

You can't be betrayed by your enemies, and both rent-seeking parasitism and globalism are inherently leftist.

Blogger Ledford Ledford July 02, 2018 1:53 PM  

I like how your 16 points are now of "The Nationalist Right." Soon enough, perhaps, you can just put "The Right."

"Nationalist" will just be assumed. In fact, the debate in many places will be right-wing nationalists vs left-wing nationalists.

Blogger RA July 02, 2018 2:02 PM  

This is a tough one ... for many of us are with Trump, have seen and understand the threat of immivasion, yet most of us are firmly not posterity as accepted here.

Just as I've been dragged inexorably away from civic nationalism and inexorably toward alt right, so I've been dragged away from the idea that posterity includes me. Sobering.

The breakup is coming.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 02, 2018 2:04 PM  

RA,

Who cares? I'm half founding stock, half dirty joooo. Doesn't matter. We've can't purify our genes. Where is your loyalty?

Blogger Andrea Ostrov Letania July 02, 2018 2:07 PM  

Peter Peter on the Wall, who's the greatest of them all?

https://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2018/July/43/7/magazine/article/10844735/

Blogger VD July 02, 2018 2:13 PM  

Who cares? I'm half founding stock, half dirty joooo. Doesn't matter. We've can't purify our genes. Where is your loyalty?

Exactly. If you value Western Civilization, then support what is good for it, no matter who you are.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 02, 2018 2:22 PM  

My dirty jooo side pulled his weight.

Blogger Jamie-R July 02, 2018 2:28 PM  

One must mention the one & only Stephen Miller here. Now there's a Jew who has accepted the tribe he is with & fights for it on a daily basis. He has his own racial brethren bashing him for it, which just goes to show where their loyalties lie. When Trump says America First, he is slyly aiming it at the capable & wealthy ethnic minorities that attack guys like Miller in their mainstream media owned assets daily. Americans can't continue to give these guys passes, otherwise you look like A/ The National Review or B/ Paid for Controlled Opposition.

Blogger Pierre Truc July 02, 2018 2:35 PM  

Excellent video.

I like the Hungarian approach:

They built a wall.

However, it is not exactly on the border. At some points the wall turns towards the inside of hungary, leaving a small pocket of hungarian land outside. Incoming immigrants are processed and wait for their authorization outside the wall.

Also, when illegals are caught inside the country, the police can't deport them to neighbouring countries because these countries don't want them, of course. So they release them inside Hungarian territory, but outside the wall! And they have only one direction to go to: away.

Neat.

Blogger tz July 02, 2018 2:44 PM  

Conservatism never even tried.
The Cold war caused all kind of follies with the CIA on the foreign front, and comingling the religious, civic, and patriotic where the latter poisoned the former.
The Civil Rights Act with the "public accomodation" provision killed freedom of association.
The Vietnam war was Divisive.
Reagan started well but was diverted, so we got the start of the exponential deficits.
GHWB lost lips sunk the ship.
Conservatives were Newtralized when they cucked on the Government shutdown and the broken Contract with America (oh, you thought we'd attach these to veto proof bills? No, we only promised to bring them to a vote in the House).
But we had Pat Buchanan - but the NR purges had to start as communism wasn't a problem, but the neocons needed to kill dissent. Deplatforming? Like Joe Sobran? Conservatism went neo and into a death spiral. I don't have to detail Bush 43, but I will note TARP and the bailouts. Then the "oh, sorry but we can't do anything because we don't have 95% of the government" excuses under Obama.

Blogger Mark Cook July 02, 2018 2:47 PM  

Vox - does the 14th Amendment kind of negate the Preamble? From Section 1:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Blogger tz July 02, 2018 2:48 PM  

We need Wild West Civilization, and I think we are getting it.
Cowboys v.s. Indians, updated with the left as the uncivilized barbarians.
We already have a long trail of tears, and the modern Andrew Jackson hasn't really begun the relocation.

Blogger RA July 02, 2018 2:59 PM  

I like my Western civilization and my Christianity. Yes it is mine too and it is what commands my loyalty. I have also become convinced that culture is downstream from genetics and have watched the light bulbs go off in people's heads when I broach that concept in my circles.

When the war chooses me and that's "when" not "if", I won't shrink from it. Here I stand fast. Sorry I did not make that clear.

Blogger Mr. Deficient July 02, 2018 3:02 PM  

at 13:30 VD talks about the earliest e right standing (historically) for 3 things. God, Church and Country. To what period and place is he referring? Also, I just want to say that it's a decent sign that many people of the right believe in "God, Guns, Country".

Blogger ZhukovG July 02, 2018 3:03 PM  

@Mark Cook: The 14th Amendment is problematic, both in its timing and the manner of its alleged ratification.

However, its existence does not invalidate Vox's original argument. Rather it shows how quickly the original intent of the founders was perverted by 19th century Progressives.

Blogger Solaire Of Astora July 02, 2018 3:04 PM  

The line about posterity is useful for justifying actual American nationalism but the preamble's statement about posterity still feels like rhetoric they never really acted on. They allowed white people to immigrate and become citizens and gave those people all the same rights and their descendants were what, grafted into the posterity? They were of the same race but they weren't the posterity of the founding generation, they still brought alien norms such as the Irish did. If the founders had taken the posterity element more seriously you'd think they'd have included some explicit second class status for all immigrants and their children at least in the sense that their citizenship could be at risk should they threaten the constitutional rights of the legitimate descendants of the American nation even if they tried using peaceful means.

Blogger TroubleSpeak July 02, 2018 3:05 PM  

The Constitution may have failed to secure the blessings of liberty to the Founders' posterity, but that doesn't mean we cannot secure the blessings of Western Civilization for our own posterity.

Either the globalists will win or the nationalists will win. In either case, our descendants will not know things like freedom of speech, freedom of religion, equality and united states the way we do. But none of those things are required for Western Civilization! The Constitution is therefor not a hill worth dying on.

Blogger Lazarus July 02, 2018 3:07 PM  

Iranian president Ahmadinejad who says that America belongs to all the world

Indeed.

Obama administration granted citizenship to 2,500 Iranians during nuclear deal: Iran official

Blogger The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey July 02, 2018 3:24 PM  

Mark Cook wrote:Vox - does the 14th Amendment kind of negate the Preamble? From Section 1:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


To answer your question, "No, there is no contradiction." Consider the concept of natural born citizen, and also the concepts of subject to a jurisdiction. The Founders thinking on the matter was articulated by David Ramsay, a delegate who was in attendance at the Constitutional Convention (and may not or may very well be an ancestor of mine):

https://www.scribd.com/doc/33807636/A-Dissertation-on-Manner-of-Acquiring-Character-Privileges-of-Citizen-of-U-S-by-David-Ramsay-1789

If you peruse that, you will see right away that the Founders' views on these matters bear little resemblance to the civic nationalist/Emma Lazarus/Judeo-Christian type stuff you hear bandied about today. Rather, as one would expect, the Founders' views hew more closely in line with 18th century English Common Law.

Blogger Pierre Truc July 02, 2018 3:47 PM  

Mr. Deficient wrote:at 13:30 VD talks about the earliest e right standing (historically) for 3 things. God, Church and Country. To what period and place is he referring?

Well, we the French invented the terms, from infogalactic:

> The terms "left" and "right" appeared during the French Revolution of 1789 when members of the National Assembly divided into supporters of the king to the president's right and supporters of the revolution to his left. One deputy, the Baron de Gauville, explained: "We began to recognize each other: those who were loyal to religion and the king took up positions to the right of the chair so as to avoid the shouts, oaths, and indecencies that enjoyed free rein in the opposing camp".

So, it's that simple actually. It is called the "right" because they sat on the right wing of the National Assembly. They supported monarchy and the king, and therefore also religion and church, since our monarchy was of "divine right" (ie, the power of the king came from God). There was not much separation of church and state!...

Blogger VD July 02, 2018 4:02 PM  

God, Church and Country.

It's actually God, Church, and King. France.

Blogger VD July 02, 2018 4:04 PM  

The line about posterity is useful for justifying actual American nationalism but the preamble's statement about posterity still feels like rhetoric they never really acted on.

Irrelevant. Unlike the Declaration of Independence, the Preamble is actual foundational law. The purpose is the purpose, regardless of how well it is realized.

They allowed white people to immigrate and become citizens and gave those people all the same rights and their descendants were what, grafted into the posterity?

No, they were not "grafted on". They believed, rightly or wrongly, that permitting those people to become citizens would help their Posterity. You're failing to distinguish between objective and means of serving that objective.

Blogger tz July 02, 2018 4:27 PM  

Meanwhile Kurt eviscerates the NeverTrumpers

Blogger Crush Limbraw July 02, 2018 4:34 PM  

Most Conservatives yammer endlessly about DaMagicConstitution while sending their kids to public schools and attending converged churches.
How do I know? I was one!
It wasn't until my daughter-in-law started to homeschool 12 years ago that I got a wakeup call from politics-uber-alles.
While gaining a wider perspective- including a good dose of Vox Popoli - I finally started my website 3 years ago - dedicated to mentoring - imagine that, I'm just waking up!
It became clear to me that institutions do not change - in fact, they double down - note the leadership of EU and our own cabal of group thinkers.
My focus now is Western Civilization and its 3 pillars - where did that come from, eh?
Final point - the days of passive debating is over - it's up to us, folks - get it in gear!

Blogger Robert Pinkerton July 02, 2018 5:49 PM  

When I was much younger, I went to Conservatism, inc., in search of Nationalism. The different outlets of ConsInc that I examined tried to bait-and-switch me to monomaniacal short-range tunnel-vision economomania and fellatory deference toward big business.

Blogger cheddarman July 02, 2018 6:19 PM  

the civic nationalists are cowards. it is more conenient for them to believe silly hand waving arguments than admit that we need to prepare for war

Blogger cheddarman July 02, 2018 6:21 PM  

the civic nationalists are cowards. it is more conenient for them to believe silly hand waving arguments than admit that we need to prepare for war

Blogger S1AL July 02, 2018 6:21 PM  

Note that for American purposes, a second use of right/left is a better fit: Girondists and Jacobins.

The Girondists were willing to accept either a constitutional monarchy or an American style of government, being heavily influenced by the American Revolution. God, Family, Country would be a good approximation.

I also found it interesting that the Romanian take on the issue replaced "Liberty, Equality, Brotherhood" with "Liberty, Justice, Brotherhood". It seems to have worked out much better for them than it did for the French.

Blogger Cetera July 02, 2018 6:28 PM  

Watched this one, and had to both laugh and cringe at the audience.

Can you just turn off comments on your livestreams and channel, VD? Or maybe only respond to comments that use the superchat function so they are actually paying your for your attention?

Blogger Uncle John's Band July 02, 2018 6:39 PM  

Conservatives have never been able to deal with "the vision thing". How can you be a movement when you have no core principles beyond 'not what they're doing'? Where are you moving to?

Conservatism is reactive. It's an echo, not a coherent philosophical foundation. It's taste, not dialectic.

Blogger Chris Mallory July 02, 2018 6:51 PM  

Solaire Of Astora wrote:They allowed white people to immigrate and become citizens and gave those people all the same rights and their descendants were what, grafted into the posterity?

Have you ever looked at actual immigration numbers for the early Republic?

We had very little immigration between 1790 and 1830. Usually less than 1% of total population a year.
In 1820, with a population of roughly 10 million, we had less than 9000 immigrants.
In 1830, we were 98% native born Americans. By 1850, that number had dropped to 90%.
We went from 95% Protestant in 1830, to 90% in 1850 due to the invasion of the papists.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf July 02, 2018 7:06 PM  

They're Crypto-Conservates.

Crypto-conservatives are pretty simple, they just promulgate memes. Judeo-Christianity for example. Once dragged out into the light and confronted, they shrivel and show themselves to be the sniveling creatures they are.

What would a Conservative say of the Spainish Reconquista? What would a Crypto say?

Blogger VD July 02, 2018 7:57 PM  

Or maybe only respond to comments that use the superchat function so they are actually paying your for your attention?

Working on it.

Blogger Pierre Truc July 02, 2018 8:08 PM  

Meanwhile, Eastern Europe works hard to prove VD is right LOL

Polish MP: Our country is safe because we didn’t accept illegal Muslim migrants -- the video is great.

Hungary foreign minister -- it is our intention to keep Hungary Hungarian. Worth watching.

Blogger Lazarus July 02, 2018 10:02 PM  

Proud Boy in Portland

Guy has body armor....took hits from an weapon on his forearm, caught the weapon and pulled the thug into the punch.

When he bends down, you can see the outline of a flack jacket. Looks like a professional.

Not Ivan Throne, perhaps?

Blogger John July 02, 2018 11:17 PM  

@12 This is a tough one ... for many of us are with Trump, have seen and understand the threat of immivasion, yet most of us are firmly not posterity as accepted here.

Indeed, who cares? AFAIK, I'm 0% posterity. When we immigrated, we swore an oath of loyalty Constitution, which ENTAILS an oath of loyalty to the Posterity who ordained and established that Constitution. So, besides reclaiming the Constitution that was destroyed first by the Republican Party and then by the socialists and White Fake Americans, and now lately by Invaders-of-Color, we must secure the existence of the American People and a future for WASP children.

Time to make good on the oath. The South must rise again.

Blogger Good Will July 02, 2018 11:25 PM  

And that, my friend, is why National Reciprocity for concealed-carry ought already be the law.

"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States."

Blogger Wade R. Potts July 03, 2018 12:15 AM  

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wu9DtINHm7A

Blogger Freddy July 03, 2018 12:32 AM  

Anybody can deconstruct. What do you have to protect the populace from geoengineered weather controlled weapons against humanity and the depopulation of 95% of the population before '25 based on Agenda 21/30 NASA war documents? BY WHAT STANDARD? Would you call down from heaven to repel these Lucifarian invaders?

Blogger Freddy July 03, 2018 1:30 AM  

While Rome burns, floods and volcanos purcolate while Rothschild's enjoy this show

Blogger Erick Parker July 03, 2018 2:55 AM  

I've heard Vox say only descendants of revolutionaries being Americans a few times now I'm still trying to wrap my head around that. I'm not sure how much it clarifies the question of how Americans are counted because 1) most white Americans have at least 1 immigrant in their history, and 2) the most pure descendants don't seem to be as concerned about immigration as others. I could be wrong on the second point, but the first point makes everything very confusing. The "direct descendants only" idea also seems to contradict the idea of 4 generations making you part of the group. It just seems like, if we were to take Vox's logic to the extreme, England is also not a unified nation because of the Saxon immivations.

It admittedly is somewhat personal for me because I have some post-WW2 German immigration in my background (though I'm mostly Borderer).

Blogger Unknown July 03, 2018 3:09 AM  

Nothing but talk from WASP Jews.

Blogger Wade R. Potts July 03, 2018 8:05 AM  

How can you be a WASP Jew?

Blogger John July 03, 2018 9:33 AM  

@50 The point is: immigration fundamentally changes a nation's national characteristics. A little immigration changes them a little, and maybe the changes be confined to genetic changes. A lot of immigration changes them a lot—and it changes all of them.

Modern "white America" is different on every national characteristic as compared to 1850s "white America" or 1776 "white America". Culture? Different. Traditions? Different. Religion? Different. Ancestors and genetics? Different. Political system? Unrecognizable. Even the language has changed. The nation that founded the United States has been overwhelmed as surely as the Angles and Celts were overwhelmed.

Why is this important? Because unless we accept that mass white immigration was wrong, we have no basis for objecting to mass third-world immigration. And because the next major update to Western political theory is going to state very clearly, in no uncertain terms, that the State has no more right to define or redefine a nation, or arbitrarily grant citizenship to foreigners, than it does to conduct warrantless searches or seizures, or deprive a person of life, liberty, or property without due process.

Blogger S1AL July 03, 2018 11:34 AM  

"And because the next major update to Western political theory is going to state very clearly, in no uncertain terms, that the State has no more right to define or redefine a nation, or arbitrarily grant citizenship to foreigners, than it does to conduct warrantless searches or seizures, or deprive a person of life, liberty, or property without due process."

You've committed the genetic fallacy at least three times in this paragraph.

Blogger Dire Badger July 03, 2018 11:59 AM  

Wade R. Potts wrote:How can you be a WASP Jew?
By being a Liar. Something elite Jewry has been exceptionally good at for nearly a century.

Blogger VD July 03, 2018 4:13 PM  

It just seems like, if we were to take Vox's logic to the extreme, England is also not a unified nation because of the Saxon immivations.

It's not my logic. It's the definition of Posterity in the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution.

Why can't you people even read?

Blogger Dire Badger July 03, 2018 7:22 PM  

Because reading is harder than spouting bullshit?

Blogger Erick Parker July 04, 2018 7:52 PM  

@53

I don't dispute the changes, or that mass immigration is akin to playing with fire while soaked in gasoline. But the founders themselves had a rough consensus that non-descendants could potentially be Americans as long as they were free and white. Additional conditions were Western European origin and Protestant background. So a Scottish person born in 1830 could be in the running by those standards, and that seems to me a good system. You don't have to be a direct descendant but do have to have a similar enough background.

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