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Monday, July 02, 2018

Immigration has consequences

NN Taleb address the problem of migration:
What intellectuals don't get about MIGRATION is the ethical notion of SYMMETRY: OPEN BORDERS work if and only if the number of pple who want to go from EU/US to Africa/LatinAmer equals Africans/Latin Amer who want to move to EU/US. Silver Rule in #SkinInTheGame Gabish?

Controlled immigration is based on the symmetry that someone brings in at least as much as he/she gets out. And the ethics of the immigrant is to defend the system as payback, not mess it up. Uncontrolled immigration has all the attributes of invasions.

As a Christian Lebanese, saw the nightmare of uncontrolled immigration of Palestinians which caused the the civil war. & as a part-time resident of N. Lebanon, I am seeing the effect of Syrian migration on the place. So I despise these virtue-signaling open-borders imbeciles.
Pat Buchanan observes that the Fourth Wave immigrants are pushing the Second and Third Wave immigrants out of power in the Democratic party.
Just as Crowley’s congressional district had changed, so, too, has his party in Congress. Columnist Dana Milbank, who sees it as progress, writes, “A majority of House Democrats are … women, people of color or gay.” These rising forces in the Democratic coalition are looking to bury the Democratic Party of yesterday, where white males and older ethnic groups — Irish, Italians, Poles and Jews — were dominant.
Ask yourself this: why were those older ethnic groups dominant in the Democratic Party in the first place? Why, it's almost as if they were practicing... identity politics? Of course, John Locke described the entire process as well as the debate that surrounds it, right down to the ex post facto rationalizations, back in 1690, in his Second Treatise on Civil Government:
No damage, that men in the state of nature suffer from one another, can give a conqueror power to dispossess the posterity of the vanquished, and turn them out of that inheritance, which ought to be the possession of them and their descendants to all generations. The conqueror indeed will be apt to think himself master: and it is the very condition of the subdued not to be able to dispute their right. 

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83 Comments:

Blogger Peter Gent July 02, 2018 8:50 AM  

Once you let crabgrass take root in your lawn, only desperate measures can deal with it, or you can kiss your beautiful lawn goodbye.

Blogger dh July 02, 2018 8:53 AM  

The GOP continues to become more white as the Democratic party continues to brown up.

Blogger VFM #7191 July 02, 2018 8:56 AM  

Have you even read Locke?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 02, 2018 9:04 AM  

"Our Masters" do royally suck, what a crappy convoluted mess, the numinous oppressed (not just for negroes anymore) and various cucky foot washing cults from fallen churches, empire building oligarchs who get their ethics and morality from bad scifi, and all given legitimacy because some slave owning dandy from 18th century America virtue signaled about "equality."

Blogger tublecane July 02, 2018 9:05 AM  

Took me a while to figure the whole ruling order, call it neoliberal or what you like, stands against the very idea of posterity. Commies obviously do, but others give lip-service to things like patriotism and so forth. I never knew they were against identity as such, even though they criticized Democratic identity strategy.

What they want is the world run by the principles of the progressive Managerial State, with all world citizens outside the Inner Party as Interchangeable Consumption Units.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 02, 2018 9:13 AM  

As a hierarchy, human terminal-parasites are fed upon by spiritual terminal-parasites. Terminal-parasites always love to eat the seed. Evil ideologies, spirits, and powers kill their mortal hosts, and must find new ones upon which to feed.

Blogger Argus Bacchus July 02, 2018 9:20 AM  

"John Locke described the entire process as well as the debate that surrounds it..."

David Hume had something to say about this as well.

From his essay "Of National Characters":

"The same set of manners will follow a nation, and adhere to them over the whole globe, as well as the same laws and languages. The Spanish, English, French and Dutch colonies, all are distinguishable even between the tropics."

Blogger VD July 02, 2018 9:20 AM  

Took me a while to figure the whole ruling order, call it neoliberal or what you like, stands against the very idea of posterity.

That's why the leading neoliberal leaders are almost invariably childless.

because some slave owning dandy from 18th century America virtue signaled about "equality."

Soaring rhetoric has its virtues, but it should never be utilized as the basis for, or confused with, sound reasoning.

Blogger Long Live The West July 02, 2018 9:21 AM  

The warlocks have lost control of their demons... They'll pay the price with us.

Blogger Ledford Ledford July 02, 2018 9:23 AM  

It's interesting that some of the fiercest critics of uncontrolled immigration are exiles, expats, immigrants, and wanderers. Taleb, our blogger here, Peter Brimelow, myself, and many others.

A thoughtful man who has been an outsider gains a newfound respect for his own people. That respect should extend to whatever people he lives among. The same man who reads a bit of honest history will see the fate of the invaded.

Blogger stevev July 02, 2018 9:35 AM  

Can someone render the Locke quotation in Philosophy for Dummies-speak for me? Europe conquered the Native Americans and denied them their posterity. Or something.

Blogger Bobiojimbo July 02, 2018 9:40 AM  

"These rising forces in the Democratic coalition are looking to bury the Democratic Party of yesterday,"

It appears the Democrats aren't immune to the Grand March either. I now see how a left-right alliance was formed in Italy - can the US also forge such an alliance? IDK.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 02, 2018 9:44 AM  

A conquered people is only conquered because they'd rather be conquered than dead.

If the conqueror reveals that they're all going to be extinguished anyway, the war resumes until someone's dead.

Blogger Johnny July 02, 2018 10:02 AM  

stevev wrote:Can someone render the Locke quotation in Philosophy for Dummies-speak for me? Europe conquered the Native Americans and denied them their posterity. Or something.
The context of Locke's comment is one where the conquered become a subordinate group. The Spanish accomplished that to a considerable extent. Among us northern Europeans the most common model was to coexist with the natives until a dispute broke out. After that we went to war and drove them off. Integration of the populations was rare and a combination of events led to a very high death toll for the tribal people. Thus their current "descendants" are not numerous enough to have much impact.

Blogger TM Lutas July 02, 2018 10:05 AM  

@8 VD - This is testable - "the leading neoliberal leaders are almost invariably childless". Has anyone done the work to test it? If not, that task might be interesting to me. Talk offline? You have my email.

Blogger Dane July 02, 2018 10:18 AM  

@12 The exodus of the left has begun. The #Walkaway campaign is gaining momentum as the "woke" left realize they painted themselves in a corner.
It wont be long before the savvy liberals with political aspirations lock onto the MAGA movement.

The problem is to contain and not just succumb to the purple wave sweeping the Right. Like liberals made Austin TX a mini a liberal city in the image of California they're gonna attempt to make the right in their image as well.
The inmates are fleeing the asylum, but many haven't truly come over to the right they've just been pushed away from the left.

Blogger Johnny July 02, 2018 10:20 AM  

"the leading neoliberal leaders are almost invariably childless"

Don't know about the leadership, but what occurred to me is that when there are no children the adults have more time and energy, and that easily spills over into political activism. That may be why homo's are as influential as they are. More time, more surplus money. Plus a women who has a couple of kids will usually have her career path interrupted.

Blogger Johnny July 02, 2018 10:25 AM  

I knew a very liberal guy who imagined a situation were one or more blacks favored him over me owing to political considerations. To paraphrase an old Churchill quote about appeasers being eaten last, I believe the very best he could hope for would be to be eaten after me, and that might not even be true. They just might go for him first.

Blogger Harambe July 02, 2018 10:25 AM  

Immigration is Free Trade but with people instead of goods and services.

Blogger Harambe July 02, 2018 10:26 AM  

VFM #7191 wrote:Have you even read Locke?

Bro, do you even Locke?

Blogger Al K. Annossow July 02, 2018 10:39 AM  

It bothers me that when Taleb says "someone brings in at least as much as he/she gets out" that he describes it and the phrase "skin in the game" mostly in terms of money. He does say he "embraced the place" and "it became my identity," but he mostly talks about taxes. I suppose that's a start, but definitely not the final word on the subject.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums July 02, 2018 10:45 AM  

Johnny wrote:They just might go for him first.

They WILL go for him first.
This was one of rules of communist subversion as explained by Bezmenov. Those who get converted and recruited in the communist effort are the ones that are eliminated first after the subversion is complete.

Blogger VD July 02, 2018 10:54 AM  

It's interesting that some of the fiercest critics of uncontrolled immigration are exiles, expats, immigrants, and wanderers. Taleb, our blogger here, Peter Brimelow, myself, and many others.

It's because we absolutely KNOW, in a way that people who stay in their home nations simply cannot imagine, that neither we nor our children are the same as the people among whom we live. We know that all of their arguments about their nice Nicaraguan neighbor or fine, upstanding Liberian co-worker are totally and absolutely irrelevant.

Also, you may note that several on that list are at least partly descended from populations that were invaded and conquered by their "home nation". Taleb is a Lebanese Christian. I am an American Indian. This allows us to understand, in a way that the average white American cannot, that the survival of your kind is never guaranteed and cannot be assumed.

Blogger Peter Gent July 02, 2018 11:03 AM  

Protester: Get ICE out of our neighborhood.
Alt-Right Guy: Where do you live?
Protester: Why?
Alt-Right Guy: Since you don't believe in borders and therefore property rights, I thought I would move in and let you take care of me.
Protester: You can't do that.
Alt-Right Guy: Why not? Isn't that what you are advocating for?
Protester: Wait a minute. I never said that.
Alt-Right Guy: Yes you did and more. I am just going to make you live up to your rhetoric. See you later. I have to go get my stuff.

Blogger justaguy July 02, 2018 11:03 AM  

While I agree with the sentiments above, invasion/immigration etc. I would like to add that there is a necessary spiritual element missing. VD always mentions Protestant Evangelical Christianity as one of the primary components of Western Civilization, I think that it is the main component of the three. While Locke mentions God, Adam and some other few mentions to deity- he is mainly developing natural law from reason.

In the immigration/invasion/what is our home debate there is a spiritual fight too. Although many evangelicals (not necessarily very Christian) welcome open borders, many other do not. It seems that we have left the statists to corrupt the Scriptures by taking a few lines to evoke letting everyone into the few Christian and Western places left.

Blogger Ledford Ledford July 02, 2018 11:10 AM  

It's because we absolutely KNOW, in a way that people who stay in their home nations simply cannot imagine, that neither we nor our children are the same as the people among whom we live.

By all rights, family background, personality (agreeable, open, etc.), I should be a good liberal. I genuinely like diversity, foreigners, etc. I live in and around people very different from me, and who represent a certain, small amount of danger to me. Kinda fun, actually. Also, and sadly, I have no kids.

But I like my own people. I wish them well. Anyone who wishes them ill is my enemy. In the end, my Scotch-Irish blood wins out.

Blogger VD July 02, 2018 11:11 AM  

VD always mentions Protestant Evangelical Christianity as one of the primary components of Western Civilization

Christianity. Not Protestant Evangelical.

Blogger Pierre Truc July 02, 2018 11:12 AM  

Alt-Right Guy: Since you don't believe in borders and therefore property rights

My favorite line is: "Who owns your internal organs?"

After all, you have two kidneys, you privileged bastards! Gib one to someone who needs one!

Variant: "Alright, I'll house two migrant families if you take one in your home."

REEEEEEEEE

VD wrote: That's why the leading neoliberal leaders are almost invariably childless.

Our pozzident, Emmanuel Macron, is childless, and will remain so considering the age of his wife...

I found that pointing this out is good rhetoric to convince women, especially mothers. Besides, it is quite obvious. How could someone who does not want children be trusted to handle our future?

Blogger Peter Gent July 02, 2018 11:13 AM  

justaguy wrote:...It seems that we have left the statists to corrupt the Scriptures by taking a few lines to evoke letting everyone into the few Christian and Western places left.
They twist sojourners (visitors) into immigrants, which Israel had strict rules about. We have visas for sojourners.

Someone recently asked why someone arriving at JFK without a passport/visa is immediately sent home, while someone crossing the southern border without a passport/visa is given room and board and released into the population.

Liars will always be liars.

Blogger pyrrhus July 02, 2018 11:19 AM  

@26 Indeed, the Scotch-Irish will out...I've spent a lot of time around diverse folks, and have no problem with most of them personally. But I'm damned if I going to let any group rob my kids and grandkids of their country.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener July 02, 2018 11:28 AM  

People don't just behave one certain way; they behave differently under different circumstances. A single Nicaraguan acts differently among a group of whites than they act when they're with fellow Nicaraguans, and vice versa. It's not hypocrisy, it's just a result of feedback that's inherent in group interaction. Individuals change groups and groups change individuals.

Blogger Cloom Glue July 02, 2018 11:33 AM  

stevev wrote:Can someone render the Locke quotation in Philosophy for Dummies-speak for me? Europe conquered the Native Americans and denied them their posterity. Or something.

Adding to what Johnny said to you, Locke also means various peoples have an identity, a posterity, a past and they have a right to assert their own government of their own consent. God might give them the courage and opportunity to throw off a dominating group.

Therefore it follows that there is no such thing as a melting pot, nor a mozaic, forming a nation. There are only groups with identities, with rights, that are not erased by what your Father agreed too, or got conquered into.

Blogger justaguy July 02, 2018 11:43 AM  

#27: Agreed, and ideas on how Catholicism made the West are out there and have many good arguments. I am not sure that Catholicism as it is practised today, especially in the US as opposed to some other branches contribute to the West now... but that is splitting hairs and I was showing typical American Catholic Bishops animus. I will re-read your blogs on the stool of the West so I do not misquote your views.

Blogger Dire Badger July 02, 2018 11:43 AM  

Ledford Ledford wrote:It's interesting that some of the fiercest critics of uncontrolled immigration are exiles, expats, immigrants, and wanderers. Taleb, our blogger here, Peter Brimelow, myself, and many others.


The difference between a tourist and a racist is about two weeks.

Blogger Shane Farrell July 02, 2018 11:47 AM  

There's a great essay on medium from a guy by the name of Tom X Hart about Matteo Salvini, populism and immigration. Worth checking out Vox. The heading is Salvini our Salvation. Thats a decent rallying cry

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener July 02, 2018 11:49 AM  

"Therefore it follows that there is no such thing as a melting pot, nor a mozaic, forming a nation."

To the extent that intermarriage and interbreeding occur, there is indeed a melting pot. If you're not content for a group of immigrants and their offspring to mix with your own kind - to be the mothers and fathers of your own descendants - then you shouldn't allow them to live in your nation.

Blogger David Power July 02, 2018 11:52 AM  

OT. But as a follow up to yesterday's "Prelude to War" post (showing the guy knocking out the Soros stooge), well it looks like that was just one of at least three KOs he chalked up that day...

KO no.1 (03:34)... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fwTT-RiMSnQ&t=40s

KO no.2 (07:38)... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-pvf8ftpRWg&t=23s


KO no.3 (10:39)... https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=62zjsHLJR-Y

Everyone of'em out cold before they hit the deck. That's pretty good going by anyone's standards.

Well done that man.

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira July 02, 2018 11:55 AM  

Last night:

"Why would Ontario have the lowest growth rate in Canada? We have the most people coming in!"

"Exactly."

Blogger Cloom Glue July 02, 2018 11:56 AM  

@36 I think the white American got alienated from their own kind and some embraced the foreigners as their own kind because those foreigners too are alien. In the British colony days, the lower class I read, were marrying their Indian princess bride, for example, I think because the lower class was alienated from their own. Maybe British class consciousness broke their society into pieces.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener July 02, 2018 12:06 PM  

@39 The fact that you identify "white" Americans perfectly illustrates my point. Before that they were British, German, Irish, Italian, etc.

Blogger Expendable Faceless Minion July 02, 2018 12:07 PM  

They might have decided he was the weaker target, and the better future opponent.

Blogger Peter Gent July 02, 2018 12:20 PM  

David Power wrote:OT. But as a follow up to yesterday's "Prelude to War" post (showing the guy knocking out the Soros stooge), well it looks like that was just one of at least three KOs he chalked up that day...Everyone of'em out cold before they hit the deck. That's pretty good going by anyone's standards.

Well done that man.

He has a wicked right. The second guy was so out he had to be carried from the street by several Anti-Fa.

Blogger Jack Amok July 02, 2018 12:20 PM  

Don't know about the leadership, but what occurred to me is that when there are no children the adults have more time and energy, and that easily spills over into political activism. That may be why homo's are as influential as they are. More time, more surplus money.

That's one of the reasons unmarried men should be considered unfit for leadership positions. A man with a family has a stake in the future a man without one doesn't, but the man without a family has more time to cause mischief.

Blogger Lovekraft July 02, 2018 12:22 PM  

There does appear to be some type of coincidence (or natural progression?) among the REAL dark web in posts that are extremely dangerous and nihilistic.

Beware and be grounded in some type of humility and faith (whatever you need) to withstand falling into this current phase. It will pass, or you will be swept away. Best to believe in the Higher Power that knows all will be settled in the end.

Blogger Cloom Glue July 02, 2018 12:23 PM  

@40 The melting pot of Christian white western culture is not the same as the other identity groups. Those are not going to merge by marriage. I thought that is what we are discussing, per the Locke quote, the unique identities that do not merge; conqueror and subdued.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 02, 2018 12:25 PM  

Cloom Glue wrote:Maybe British class consciousness broke their society into pieces.
The British classes are not only separate classes. They are separate ethnicities, and have been since the Norman conquest.

Blogger pyrrhus July 02, 2018 12:31 PM  

O/T An extremely important article by Ron Unz on Venona and the large number of suspicious deaths involving Soviet (and British) agents and their opponents in America. http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-our-deadly-world-of-post-war-politics/ This article has already disappeared once from Unz's website....

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener July 02, 2018 12:36 PM  

"The melting pot of Christian white western culture is not the same as the other identity groups. Those are not going to merge by marriage."

It should be obvious that Locke's scenario does not apply when widespread intermarriage has occurred over several generations.

Blogger pyrrhus July 02, 2018 12:59 PM  

The British classes are not only separate classes. They are separate ethnicities, and have been since the Norman conquest.

According to Prof. Gregory Clark's excellent 'A Farewell to Alms', the upper class's younger children and those of the gentry melted down and displaced much of the original working and peasant class in Britain...i

Blogger VD July 02, 2018 1:12 PM  

It should be obvious that Locke's scenario does not apply when widespread intermarriage has occurred over several generations.

That's ridiculous. Of course it does. Widespread intermarriage is part and parcel of the process of conquest and elimination.

Do you see much left of Neanderthal culture and values these days? Do you regard me as a proper American Indian, living in the manner of my Indian ancestors?

Blogger Julian Kowalczyk July 02, 2018 1:21 PM  

I'm against Open Borders and I am for selective immigration.
Our rulers understand that with our current financial system if the population does not consistently increase each year there will be crash of immense proportions. They don't care what type of people they let in just as long as there are more people buying. Itz scary how many people from third world nations (shit holes) want to come here instead of improving their own countries.

Blogger VoodooJock July 02, 2018 1:25 PM  

I think the lower castes marrying Indian "princess" brides was a function of the relative dearth of British women in their social strata. You didn't see the upper-crust of British society doing that. It was mostly the lower-class grunts whose options were few to none.

GI's in Korea, Japan, Vietnam, all did the same thing with the locals. My Dad used to tell of Red Cross donut dollies who weren't the least bit attractive in looks or demeanor making money on their backs because they were the only 'round-eye' game in town.

The same phenomenon manifests itself in the modern-day "2-10-2". A 2 CONUS, 10 in the Sandbox, 2 back in CONUS. Any time you have 10 men and 5 women, the 2 is going to be able to get a better deal than they would if there were 10 men and 10 women across that same spectrum.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 02, 2018 1:37 PM  

Julian Kowalczyk wrote:I'm against Open Borders and I am for selective immigration.

Why in the world would you favor selective immigration? Kowalczyk. Oh. Not American. If you don't have sense enough to slam the door closed behind you, you have to go back.

Blogger James Dixon July 02, 2018 1:49 PM  

> Our rulers understand that with our current financial system if the population does not consistently increase each year there will be crash of immense proportions.

And if the let immigrants in there will still be a crash of immense proportions. The difference is that we could recover from the first. We won't be here to recover from the second, so there will be no recovery.

Blogger Ledford Ledford July 02, 2018 2:00 PM  

Do you see much left of Neanderthal culture and values these days? Do you regard me as a proper American Indian, living in the manner of my Indian ancestors?

But the spirit of the Neanderthals lives on. And isn't that all we want for future generations? That they forge their spirits in the tradition of our ancestors? That our 2% contribution to future DNA be of extraordinary magnitude?

Blogger Andrea Ostrov Letania July 02, 2018 2:06 PM  

We must call it Mass Invasion or Multi-Colonization.

Blogger Andrea Ostrov Letania July 02, 2018 2:06 PM  

We must call it Mass Invasion or Multi-Colonization.

Blogger VD July 02, 2018 2:14 PM  

I'm against Open Borders and I am for selective immigration.

You should be against both. Why do you want to import your rulers?

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener July 02, 2018 2:31 PM  

That's ridiculous. Of course it does. Widespread intermarriage is part and parcel of the process of conquest and elimination.

Sometimes this is true and sometimes it is not. Sometimes the conqueror almost entirely eliminates its victims without intermarrying with them. Take the interaction of the early English settlers and Native Americans as an example.

Do you see much left of Neanderthal culture and values these days? Do you regard me as a proper American Indian, living in the manner of my Indian ancestors?

The Neanderthals are gone, but those who bred with them are forever changed as a result. Regarding you, I would have to answer that you're not an American Indian, but you're also not English, Irish, or Mexican.

Does the part of you that is the conqueror think that it is master of the part of you that is subdued? Or is that question nonsensical because you simply have an identity that is altogether different from either of your parents? I strongly suspect the latter.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants July 02, 2018 3:35 PM  

You'll have to Google it, but The Root, (MAJOR black publication, owned by Jews, of course), did one of those Pick 16 brackets thingies for worst people of 2016 or 2017, can't remember which, you'll find it.
Anyway, after weeks of voting, the last two "people" standing were Andrew Anglin against "white allies."
After thousands of votes, the black readers of The Root picked their "white allies," as the WORST PEOPLE OF THE YEAR.
Good luck to your friend on being eaten last. They hate him and his many, many cohorts way worse than they do Anglin, who writes a parody blog site calling them ni&&ers about 50xs a day.
😂

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener July 02, 2018 3:37 PM  

My last example isn't terribly relevant since Locke was discussing a scenario in which the subjugated people continued to exist. Better examples would be the subjugation of the Russians by the Mongols or black slavery in America. In both cases intermarriage was quite low for centuries and the subjugated people largely retained their identities. I believe it was this sort of scenario that Locke was discussing. Probably even more relevant for Locke were the English interactions with the Scots and Irish, who still largely retain separate identities to this day even though one might consider them subjugated.

But after significant amounts of intermarriage have occurred between two ethnic groups, a new ethnicity is formed. Then it no longer makes sense to speak in terms of conqueror and subjugated. For American whites, memories of our ancestors who were once oppressed based on their ethnicity are largely forgotten.

Blogger VD July 02, 2018 4:12 PM  

But after significant amounts of intermarriage have occurred between two ethnic groups, a new ethnicity is formed. Then it no longer makes sense to speak in terms of conqueror and subjugated. For American whites, memories of our ancestors who were once oppressed based on their ethnicity are largely forgotten.

That's entirely false. You quite clearly do not understand the way population demographics work. That would only be true if the intermixing was almost perfectly balanced. Do the math.

Blogger VD July 02, 2018 4:14 PM  

The Neanderthals are gone, but those who bred with them are forever changed as a result. Regarding you, I would have to answer that you're not an American Indian, but you're also not English, Irish, or Mexican.

You're completely missing the point and I'm beginning to get tired of your being obtuse. The point is that the "new" ethnicity is almost entirely dominated by the dominant, conquering race. For example, there is almost ZERO genetic trace of either the Danes or the Romans in England.

You are foolishly attempting to rely on crude logic in ignorance of the way that population genetics actually work.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener July 02, 2018 4:35 PM  

I don't mean to be obtuse and it's never my intention to upset you. I'm going to assume you're correct on this even though I don't fully understand. Thanks for replying.

Blogger VD July 02, 2018 4:37 PM  

I don't mean to be obtuse and it's never my intention to upset you. I'm going to assume you're correct on this even though I don't fully understand.

Look up the recent genetic information on the Danes in England. Then apply that reality to your reasoning. It even matters, genetically speaking, if the breeding out is predominantly male or female.

Blogger Ledford Ledford July 02, 2018 4:58 PM  

The closest countries I can think of to "melting pots" are Mexico and India, where conquerors, or waves of conquerors, mixed with natives to make something different. In both cases, there are strong caste systems where those on top have more winner blood in them. Both are filled with people who want to live somewhere else.

Blogger DonReynolds July 02, 2018 5:47 PM  

"Controlled immigration is based on the symmetry that someone brings in at least as much as he/she gets out. And the ethics of the immigrant is to defend the system as payback, not mess it up. Uncontrolled immigration has all the attributes of invasions."

No, Sir!
Controlled immigration means that there are more foreign-born people in the country LEGALLY than there are illegal aliens. We could see illegal aliens as the natural friction in any immigration system, but when the friction is greater than the output, you have a bad system.

Blogger tublecane July 02, 2018 6:06 PM  

@25- Christianity is one of the pillars of Western Civilization, not Protestant Evangelism specifically.

Europe was influenced by Christian for 1,500 years before the protestant reformation.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 02, 2018 6:09 PM  

Ledford Ledford wrote:The closest countries I can think of to "melting pots" are Mexico and India,... Both are filled with people who want to live somewhere else.

Nothing about this makes ``melting pot'' seem like a good idea.

DonReynolds wrote:Controlled immigration means that there are more foreign-born people in the country LEGALLY than there are illegal aliens. We could see illegal aliens as the natural friction in any immigration system, but when the friction is greater than the output, you have a bad system.

When the output is bad, it's a bad system, regardless of the friction. At this point, all the output of our immigration system is bad.

Blogger tublecane July 02, 2018 6:12 PM  

@39- There was a movie, Grand Illusion, about a POW camp in WWI, which featured a Prussian aristocrat with strong fellow-feeling for a French officer whom he kept as a prisoner. He was deeply embarrassed and regretful when the latter attempted escape and it was his duty to shoot him down.

The aristocratic outlook is foreign to us now. It predates nationalism, of course. And they intermarried freely with foreign aristocrats.

Blogger DonReynolds July 02, 2018 6:16 PM  

Johnny wrote:I knew a very liberal guy who imagined a situation were one or more blacks favored him over me owing to political considerations. To paraphrase an old Churchill quote about appeasers being eaten last, I believe the very best he could hope for would be to be eaten after me, and that might not even be true. They just might go for him first.

Based only on my decades of close observation, they are cowardly and lazy so they will eat first, whomever is the most convenient and easy. Whites who show up for BLM and Black Panther protests have been seeing this for themselves. They really do not want any help from the Leftist white sissies and they definitely do not want to share the camera or the microphone or the loot.

Blogger tublecane July 02, 2018 6:18 PM  

@43- It's different when you live in an orderly society. There was such a thing as the Eternal Bachelor, and presumably they weren't all homos. Like spinsters, they could contribute to family life without producing kids of their own.

My mother used to talk about a great uncle like that. He ran the family business and kept other people's children in line. Was very strict on financial matters, as I'm told, and had military discipline about everything he did. But they liked him.

Of course, that is not to be a public figure. I don't know how such a person would do as a statesman. But he contributed to society.

Now that we live in a Do As Thine Loins Tell You civilization, such people aren't apt to exist.

Blogger Mark Stoval July 02, 2018 6:40 PM  

"You are foolishly attempting to rely on crude logic in ignorance of the way that population genetics actually work."

The sad fact is far too many Americans do not understand statistics and therefore population genetics is a bridge too far. They then rely on "common sense" which often fails them because math is hard and statistics and population genetics is even worse.

You know the old joke that all probabilities are .5 since a thing will either happen or it will not. I always thought the joke was to remind us of how many just really don't understand probability and statistics. Or as a grad school prof told me, for God's sake don't teach them calculus in high school --- teach them statistics!

i hope no one takes offense at my comments, they were not intended towards anyone here --- but rather, at the general public who can be so easily conned by mathie arguments.

Blogger Dire Badger July 02, 2018 7:28 PM  

common sense only works when people have some connection to what is 'common'.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf July 02, 2018 7:34 PM  

The Irish are also led by a barren vegetable.

Blogger tublecane July 02, 2018 8:45 PM  

@73- Common sense would do them better.

Not sense common to people who have been raised to think as if the present moment is all that matters, that they have to "construct" a way to understand the world all on their own, that they can't Notice things and must suspend judgement because such things are mean, and so on. Rather, the sense represented by folk wisdom and prejudice. In other words everything our culture attempts to scrub out of our minds and personalities in the Current Year.

If you don't know in your blood, so to speak, that people who don't look like you crowding out people who do look like you on your home turf is a problem, you've lost common sense.

Blogger tublecane July 03, 2018 1:03 AM  

@73- Also it's not just that statistical and probability are especi hard. They're alien. When was it that discipline was formed? Francis Galton? Under 150 years ago.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf July 03, 2018 1:40 AM  

crypto-(((conservative)))

Blogger het1 July 03, 2018 9:19 AM  

This is a solution:
"entry in Russia by visa only. And visas not to give anybody" (V. Zirinovsky, leader of LDPR, Russia)

Blogger Dire Badger July 03, 2018 7:23 PM  

Meng Greenleaf wrote:The Irish are also led by a barren vegetable.

So is the EU

Blogger Dirk Manly July 04, 2018 2:00 AM  

@77

"@73- Also it's not just that statistical and probability are especi hard. They're alien. When was it that discipline was formed? Francis Galton? Under 150 years ago."

1654. Blaise Pascal and Pierre de Fermat (of Fermat's Last Theorem fame).

Blogger Dire Badger July 04, 2018 9:32 AM  

It's too bad that Pat is just a little too long in the tooth to be a supreme court Justice.

Blogger Silver Chief July 05, 2018 8:53 PM  

The coming takeover of the Dem party can be summed up in the immortal words of Tonto from the old Lone Ranger joke: "What you mean WE white man?"

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