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Friday, July 06, 2018

Never listen to Trotskyites

Pat Buchanan observes that the failure of the neocons has been comprehensive:
The failures that killed the Bush party, and that represented departures from Reaganite traditionalism and conservatism, are:

First, the hubristic drive, despite the warnings of statesmen like George Kennan, to exploit our Cold War victory and pursue a policy of permanent containment of a Russia that had lost a third of its territory and half its people.

We moved NATO into Eastern Europe and the Baltic, onto her doorstep. We abrogated the ABM treaty Nixon had negotiated and moved defensive missiles into Poland. John McCain pushed to bring Ukraine and Georgia into NATO, and even to send U.S. forces to face off against Russian troops.

Thus we got a second Cold War that need never have begun and that our allies seem content to let us fight alone.

Europe today is not afraid of Vladimir Putin reaching the Rhine. Europe is afraid of Africa and the Middle East reaching the Danube.

Let the Americans, who relish playing empire, pay for NATO.

Second, in a reflexive response to 9/11, we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, dumped over the regime in Libya, armed rebels to overthrow Bashar Assad in Syria, and backed Saudi intervention in a Yemeni civil war, creating a humanitarian crisis in that poorest of Arab countries that is exceeded in horrors only by the Syrian civil war.

Since Y2K, hundreds of thousands in the Middle East have perished, the ancient Christian community has all but ceased to exist, and the refugees now number in the millions. What are the gains for democracy from these wars, all backed enthusiastically by the Republican establishment?

Why are the people responsible for these wars still being listened to, rather than confessing their sins at second-thoughts conferences?

The GOP elite also played a crucial role in throwing open U.S. markets to China and ceding transnational corporations full freedom to move factories and jobs there and ship their Chinese-made goods back here, free of charge.

Result: In three decades, the U.S. has run up $12 trillion in merchandise trade deficits — $4 trillion with China — and Beijing’s revenue from the USA has more than covered China’s defense budget for most of those years.
The Trotskyites lost the Soviet Union, but gained the Republican Party. Now they've lost that, and all they've got is Max Boot, Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson, and the pathetic ideogicial non-movement that should rightfully have been christened the Idiotic Dork Web.

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53 Comments:

Blogger Miguel July 06, 2018 8:20 AM  

They gain power out of chaos, so, they are happy. Well, their masters are.

Blogger exfarmkid July 06, 2018 8:25 AM  

"Idiotic Dork Web."

I like it!

Blogger tuberman July 06, 2018 8:27 AM  

Pat has always made good sense.

Blogger Stilicho July 06, 2018 8:28 AM  

Being a Neocon/cuckservative means never having to say you're sorry...

Blogger Stilicho July 06, 2018 8:29 AM  

Ineffectual Dork Web

Blogger Eduardo July 06, 2018 8:31 AM  

Leave Petey Alone t_t!

He is going through a tough time fixing the Left for all of us t_t


Irrelevant Dork Web

Blogger Johnny July 06, 2018 8:33 AM  

Let the Americans, who relish playing empire...

That is about the size of it. Apparently we are incapable on an institutional level to run an empire in a way that serves our interests.

Blogger VD July 06, 2018 8:40 AM  

Let the Americans, who relish playing empire.

They're not Americans....

Blogger Ledford Ledford July 06, 2018 8:40 AM  

They still have a lot of money behind them. An unscrupulous person could present himself as a "Conservative" evangelical, Southerner, military veteran, Ivy League graduate, etc. and suck up all kinds of money for all kinds of hopeless things. Non-white would be best. He could secure sinecures for his entire family.

I predict someone out of the Southern Baptist Convention will be anointed and presented as the newest Web Dork. If you have a shiftless uncle or cousin you might recommend he apply.

Blogger Bobo #117 July 06, 2018 8:48 AM  

It's getting towards "last call" to Make Aliyah Great Again

Blogger MB July 06, 2018 8:49 AM  

Maybe it's hard to turn on a dime.
The US have been friendly to China since Nixon (in spite of official rhetoric --- administrations come and go, but career diplomats and experts remain) and hostile to the USSR since Truman. Time enough to build powerful lobbies in favor of the status quo and ingrained habits of thought in the State Department.
Also, imagine the US didn't take full advantage of their victory and let the USSR off easy, even helping it just as they are still propping up China. Wouldn't the people who did this be rightly accused of corruption and treason, just as the Clintons and the Democrats were for their attitude to China in the 90s?
A détente policy could not have been a winning policy.

Blogger insight July 06, 2018 8:51 AM  

"Being a Neocon/cuckservative/Churchian means never having to say you're sorry..."

Fixed.

Blogger Stilicho July 06, 2018 8:51 AM  

Ineffectual Dork Web

Blogger Stilicho July 06, 2018 8:51 AM  

Being a Neocon/cuckservative means never having to say you're sorry...

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 06, 2018 8:54 AM  

A goodly number are Americans and their shenanigans date back to, at least, 1890s.

The Constitution that replaced the Articles was the making of an Empire and the death illness of the Republic.

Instances of Use of United States Armed Forces Abroad, 1798-2017
https://news.usni.org/2017/10/20/report-instances-use-u-s-armed-forces-abroad-1798-2017

Blogger SDaly July 06, 2018 8:58 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger ZhukovG July 06, 2018 8:59 AM  

The Russians should have consulted with some of Vox's relatives. They could have explained just how 'trustworthy' Washington DC can be.

Fortunately for the Russians they now have Tsar Vladimir, The Great and a really sweet bridge between Krasnodar Krai and Crimea.

Blogger Dire Badger July 06, 2018 9:02 AM  

Let the (((Americans))) Who relish playing empire...

Blogger Ledford Ledford July 06, 2018 9:10 AM  

@11

Also, imagine the US didn't take full advantage of their victory and let the USSR off easy, even helping it just as they are still propping up China. Wouldn't the people who did this be rightly accused of corruption and treason, just as the Clintons and the Democrats were for their attitude to China in the 90s?

After '91, there was no USSR. The Cold War victory was nothing like victory in WWII with an occupied Germany split between the former allies. There was no way to dictate harsh terms to a nuclear power. Expanding NATO and making Russia a permanent rival was foolish.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 06, 2018 9:16 AM  

"They're not Americans...."

And they've taken a turn at playing empire in pretty much every single empire since Babylon.

Blogger Michael Maier July 06, 2018 9:18 AM  

Looking at those results, esp the deaths of so many and the destruction of Christianity in the Middle East, I truly think Satan runs US foreign policy.

Blogger pyrrhus July 06, 2018 9:20 AM  

The campaign to destroy Russia and various 3d world targets was pursued largely by the Zionists, mostly Russian and Lithuanian, who control the American and British governments, with enormous profits to insiders...The media de-platformed anyone who objected, like Buchanan. Rinse and repeat for Iraq, Syria, Serbia, etc...The looting of America has been non-stop.

Blogger Silent Draco July 06, 2018 9:28 AM  

MB,

Detente was a losing policy, and was backed by all the correct fellow-travelers and corrupt people. Reagan won the Cold Wat by driving the Soviets into moral and fiscal bankruptcy first, before two generations of traitors could complete their work in the U.S. Letting the Soviets down gently allowed Russia to re-emerge. The Establishment and SJWs bungled and distorted the peace, which is how Russia became an unfriendly rival.

The China Syndrome goes back much earlier than Nixon. It was exacerbated by a bunch of popular books and movies ("The Good Earth" etc.) The scenes of peasants working in rice paddies looks so nice, until you recall the overlords doing it to your own grandparents.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 06, 2018 9:35 AM  

I have, over a long time, been inclining to think that these uSA are the "Revived Roman Empire." And, that culto of Israel the delusion to befall the church.

Blogger Peaceful Poster July 06, 2018 9:36 AM  

Well, that would explain Jordon Peterson's Soviet art collection.

Blogger Jeffersonranch July 06, 2018 10:18 AM  

Fuck all previous republicans conservative don't make me laugh

Blogger cheddarman July 06, 2018 10:47 AM  

can we just hang them all now and Make America Great Again?

Blogger MB July 06, 2018 10:50 AM  

"After '91, there was no USSR."
If the US had made some gesture in '91, such as refusing to recognize any new republics except the Baltic Countries (whose WWII annexation was never recognized), maybe the USSR would still be around in some form. But why would the US do such a thing?
"There was no way to dictate harsh terms to a nuclear power."
Dictated or not, the fall of the USSR must have been quite harsh on many Russians. From masters they became tolerated second-class citizens in many places. There was more than a decade of misery and anarchy. The harshness was perhaps unavoidable.
"Expanding NATO and making Russia a permanent rival was foolish."
There were attempts at mitigation, like making Russia a member of the G8. How far should the leniency go? Make Russia a NATO and EU member as well?
This reminds me of the Roman intervention in Greece. First they went in to free the Greeks from Macedonia, but then they never really left. However, who can seriously argue that the Romans should have restored Macedonia to its former hegemonic position in order to salvage its dignity and keep it as an ally?
1. Conquest and crushing an enemy are the only ways to be sure of the outcome (see Rome and Carthage).
2. If one wants or needs an ally, why pick one with a history of past enmity; maybe Macedonia wouldn't have been the best candidate in the first place.
3. No alliance lasts forever; Rome ended up annexing all of its allies, in some cases after alliances that had lasted for more than 100 years.
4. And often proponents of pacifist and amiable solutions don't even make it into power, on either side. Both Rome and Macedonia were powerful because they were aggressive and militaristic and were led by aggressive and militaristic leaders, not by ones who seek compromise at any price.
So the Romans conquered Macedonia, made it part of their empire, and several centuries later the Roman empire had a Macedonian dynasty (and many Greek and non-Roman leaders even before that).
Indeed, nuclear weapons complicate things, but surely Pentagon (and Russian, and Chinese) experts are thinking about the best way to proceed. We'll know as soon as they come up with a solution.
Absent an actual solution, the most likely outcome is that people will come up with more practical nuclear weapons, the taboo will be overcome, they will get used again, and world conquest or close to it will happen, once this last obstacle has fallen.

Blogger Ledford Ledford July 06, 2018 11:18 AM  

@28

There were attempts at mitigation, like making Russia a member of the G8. How far should the leniency go? Make Russia a NATO and EU member as well?

There are categories between and beyond "Ally" and "Enemy." India is not in NATO and is not an enemy or even a rival. If you were truly an enemy of Russia, you would invite them to the EU, and offer them their fair share of refugees.

If you want to make a Roman analogy, at least use the Parthians as Russian stand-ins. Even that is a stretch. This starting to get silly.

Blogger Blume July 06, 2018 11:44 AM  

Starting? Mb is completely silly. The US couldn't even hold Cuba and the Philippines and he expects us to conquer Russia?

Blogger Frank Brady July 06, 2018 11:59 AM  

VD wrote..."The Trotskyites lost the Soviet Union, but gained the Republican Party. Now they've lost that, and all they've got is Max Boot, Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson, and the pathetic ideogicial non-movement that should rightfully have been christened the Idiotic Dork Web."

...and the national leadership of what remains of the GOP (except for a few ridiculous RINOs).

Blogger Patrick Kelly July 06, 2018 12:06 PM  

Only blowhard idiots want war with Russia.

Russia should not only *not* be an enemy, they would be our natural allies and partners without the fkn hyenas of the world snapping at their ankles and then running to mama Yankee whining about how much a big bad bully that bear is.

The Syrian situation has improved due much to what little cooperation the US has had with Russia in that region, and much of that due to Trump.

Blogger Robert Pinkerton July 06, 2018 12:19 PM  

Tsar Vladimir's Russia as enemy of the United States? Non persuadeor!

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 06, 2018 1:25 PM  

War with Russia will be a cakewalk.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 06, 2018 1:25 PM  

Oops. Just kidding.

Blogger Unknown July 06, 2018 1:40 PM  

Speaking of Max Boot:

http://archive.is/GicJx

"I join other principled conservatives in rooting for a Democratic takeover of both houses in November. Like postwar Germany and Japan, the Republican Party must first be destroyed before it can be rebuilt."

He's got an article along the same lines in WaPo, too, but fsck that place, they won't get a link from me.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 06, 2018 1:47 PM  

Unknown wrote:"...the Republican Party must first be destroyed before it can be rebuilt."


He is correct. What he doesn't understand is that the destruction will entail he and 100 of his friends a co-workers walking the plank and honest people taking the reins.

Blogger Unknown July 06, 2018 1:51 PM  

@37

I agree. Max doesn't understand this picture yet, but he will:

https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/conservative-quote-2-0.jpg

Blogger Ledford Ledford July 06, 2018 2:00 PM  

"I join other principled conservatives in rooting for a Democratic takeover of both houses in November. Like postwar Germany and Japan, the Republican Party must first be destroyed before it can be rebuilt."

I'm a WWII man myself, but sometimes I like to imagine a history before and after that time. I wonder what the people there would be like, what they would tell us? Then I wake up and I know I have to warn the world about Hitler. AGAIN.

Blogger lynnjynh9315 July 06, 2018 2:05 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger lynnjynh9315 July 06, 2018 2:06 PM  

Is it good rhetoric to call Neocons Trotskyites...?

Most people either don't know what it means or worship the guy.

Blogger ace July 06, 2018 2:31 PM  

Idiotic Dork Web
Almost spit out my drink. If the IDW wasn't dead on arrival, that might've been enough to kill it.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey July 06, 2018 5:29 PM  

Second, in a reflexive response to 9/11, we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, dumped over the regime in Libya...

Well... Afghanistan, perhaps, but to characterize the invasion of Iraq as a response to 9/11 might be a little inaccurate. See the obvious continuity between "A Clean Break: a New Strategy for Securing the Realm" (position paper presented to Bibi in 1996) >> PNAC (1997) and their calls for "regime change" in Iraq >> W administration marketing the invasion of Iraq, spearheaded by... several of the dual-citizen authors of "A Clean Break."

9/11 was just an excuse.

Blogger Dire Badger July 06, 2018 6:31 PM  

Shitting out golden eggs has been vastly less painful lately. Is it because Americans are getting used to the feeling? Or have the eggs just gotten very, very small?

Blogger Dirk Manly July 06, 2018 10:17 PM  

@19

" Expanding NATO and making Russia a permanent rival was foolish."

Any expansion of NATO should have included an offer to Russia to join too.

Blogger Dirk Manly July 06, 2018 10:19 PM  

@27

"can we just hang them all now and Make America Great Again?"

That's the Q plan. They're trying to do it without simultaneously triggering a civil war.

Blogger Dirk Manly July 06, 2018 10:24 PM  

@29

"India is not in NATO and is not an enemy or even a rival."

2 Million plus IT sector workers replaced by incompetent Indians beg to differ.

You want to know why Americans' credit card info, and personal details are constantly being revealed to the entire world via IT security flaws?

TWO WORDS: INDIAN H1-Bs

Blogger Dirk Manly July 06, 2018 10:26 PM  

@32

"Russia should not only *not* be an enemy, they would be our natural allies and partners without the fkn hyenas of the world snapping at their ankles and then running to mama Yankee whining about how much a big bad bully that bear is."

+11038

Blogger Dirk Manly July 06, 2018 10:29 PM  

@37

"He is correct. What he doesn't understand is that the destruction will entail he and 100 of his friends a co-workers walking the plank and honest people taking the reins."

Oh, he understand that entirely.

He uses the word "destroyed" when what he means is "rearranged, as in a game of musical chairs" and hoping that the general public doesn't catch on.

Fortunately Trump is LITERALLY destroying both the GOP and the DNC.

Blogger Dirk Manly July 06, 2018 10:32 PM  

@39

"Then I wake up and I know I have to warn the world about Hitler. AGAIN."

Most of the American public has waken up and acknowledged that Hitlery is a power-thirsty, venereal-disease ridden, warmongering nutjob.

Blogger Ledford Ledford July 07, 2018 8:02 AM  

@47

"Pain in the *ss" is not the same as "enemy." Those problems have domestic solutions.

@50

Was meant to satirize people who see everything through WWII glasses.

Blogger MB July 07, 2018 11:21 AM  

"If you want to make a Roman analogy, at least use the Parthians as Russian stand-ins. Even that is a stretch. This starting to get silly".

Macedonia or the Seleucid Empire are better analogies, because they had a lot in common with the Romans, just like Russia does with the US. China, India, and Japan would be better stand-ins for Parthia and Carthage, having more different cultures from the US.

"The US couldn't even hold Cuba and the Philippines and he expects us to conquer Russia?"
In this analogy, perhaps surprisingly, the Romans had greater problems conquering the Iberian peninsula or Germany, relatively backward places, than they did conquering Egypt, which had been civilized for thousands of years.
Likewise, the US would find it easier and more profitable to conquer Europe (already done, in all but name), or even Russia, than Congo.

The Romans didn't conquer Macedonia in one go. After their first decisive victory, they split it into four smaller kingdoms. Why does this sound familiar?

Blogger Dirk Manly July 07, 2018 3:41 PM  

@51

""Pain in the *ss" is not the same as "enemy." Those problems have domestic solutions."

You obviously don't have a college education going to waste due to displacement by Hindi and Paki parasites...

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