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Thursday, July 26, 2018

Retarded rhetoric

I understand that the elite in Washington thinks Americans are stupid. But how dumb do you have to be to preen and posture about "self-determination" and "spreading democracy" for nearly 100 years, only to turn around and reject the overwhelming results of a free and fair referendum:
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo issued a statement Wednesday saying the US "rejects Russia's attempted annexation of Crimea and pledges to maintain this policy until Ukraine's territorial integrity is restored."

"The United States calls on Russia to respect the principles to which it has long claimed to adhere and to end its occupation of Crimea," the statement reads. Pompeo is also expected to state in congressional testimony Wednesday that the United States will never recognize Crimea as part of Russia, a European diplomat briefed by the State Department told CNN.

Pompeo's declaration comes after President Donald Trump had appeared to cast doubt on his administration's commitment to Ukraine's claims over the peninsula. Asked by reporters on Air Force One at the end of June whether the United States would recognize Russia's claim on Crimea, Trump ambiguously responded: "We're going to have to see."
Perhaps it's just a negotiating point. Perhaps it's just for show. Regardless, it's stupid and totally unconvincing. Self-contradictory rhetoric is the worst and least effective kind of rhetoric.

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119 Comments:

Blogger Longtime Lurker July 26, 2018 11:11 AM  

Crimea text river, Mike.

Blogger John Calla July 26, 2018 11:17 AM  

Russia probably wants to expand its territory westward.

Blogger Unknown July 26, 2018 11:17 AM  

Crimea was taken from Russia and given to Ukraine in 1954. Khruschev alegedly did dis when he was drunk.

Not recognising Crimea as part of Russia is like not recognising sovereignity of Baltic states. Or Ukraine itself, for that matter.

A year ago I asked someone from Ukraine about Crimea. She just shrugged and said it was Russian anyway.

Blogger Abyssus Invocat July 26, 2018 11:22 AM  

It is profoundly stupid. Control of Crimea is Russian geopolitical imperative, vital interest and part of Russian grand strategy since the 17th Century. They aren’t going give it up and they shouldn’t give it up. Note the wiggle room though. The US will never “recognise” Russian annexation of Crimea, not will never “accept” it.

Blogger Abyssus Invocat July 26, 2018 11:23 AM  

Good one.

Blogger John July 26, 2018 11:26 AM  

Government by gamma.

Blogger Azimus July 26, 2018 11:29 AM  

I wonder how many terror cells the spooks have tried to plant in Crimea? Geographically it is much more difficult to infiltrate and smuggle in than Syria or Libya - only 2 land approaches - one a guarded border, the other a guarded bridge. Not a lot of ports. No stealthy air-drop approach. Either way, they haven't used any of their usual tools here and the populace seems pretty docile - some protests/arrests, no real violence...

Blogger RobertT July 26, 2018 11:31 AM  

Changing your story is the kiss of death. it's like the difference between an alpha and an omega. Mistakes like these, and this is not the first, will do more damage than the MSM.

Blogger Longtime Lurker July 26, 2018 11:32 AM  

Memo to Secretary Pompeo: Perhaps a trade is in order, U.S. recognition of the Russian reconquest of Crimea in return for Russian evacuation of Kaliningrad.

Blogger liberranter July 26, 2018 11:33 AM  

I understand that the elite in Washington thinks Americans are stupid.

Just looking around you and listening and observing, wherever you happen to be at any given moment, how can you honestly say that they are incorrect in making this blanket assumption? Indeed, if anything, they probably underestimate the MPALI quotient by orders of magnitude.

Blogger RobertT July 26, 2018 11:34 AM  

Here's something else I don't understand. ... (Reuters) - Montana's governor on Tuesday sued the Internal Revenue Service and U.S. Treasury to stop them from removing requirements that politically active nonprofits, such as the NRA and Planned Parenthood, disclose donor identities to U.S. authorities. I thought we were trying to get rid of the Deep State.

Blogger Lovekraft July 26, 2018 11:36 AM  

Anything that moves the debate towards electoral 'verifiablity' is a good thing. So perhaps this is what would emerge moving forward.

What Pompeo should do is present his reasons as to why the referendum was invalid, rather than using vague condemnation.

Blogger S1AL July 26, 2018 11:38 AM  

It's optics. Democrats scream about collusion, Trump plays hardball with Russia. 95% of the electorate neither knows nor cares about Crimea's history. It's not relevant to the rhetoric.

Blogger Warunicorn July 26, 2018 11:40 AM  

Is it me or do they off on their own tangent, not conferring with Trump on matters like this?

Also, we should stop butting in matters that have no impact on us or else we'd end up as Team America: World Police.

Blogger Looking Glass July 26, 2018 11:46 AM  

Just optics, and given Pompeo is one of Trump's guys, likely in the Trumpian rope-a-dope model.

Blogger Resident Moron™ July 26, 2018 11:46 AM  

Why would anyone anywhere ever give a flying flapdoodle about electoral verifiability?

Democracy is a con. Or as Gary North puts it, the intrusion into history of a new god: “we, the people”.

Anyway, self contradiction is bad enough but when the bit you emphasize most stridently and often is simultaneously most flagrantly at odds with reality?

That’s double plus retarded.

Blogger Matamoros July 26, 2018 11:49 AM  

Except it wasn't "free and fair". It was held under Russian bayonets with the bulk of the population not voting because it was an illegal referendum conducted under an occupier. If one does some research this is clear.

Thus, at some point Russia will have to give back Crimea to Ukraine. Then, perhaps a "free and fair" referendum can be held.

Same thing as Lincoln's invading the border states to prevent a real referendum on secession, and forcibly keeping the States in the Union.

@3 & @4 - It is self-evident that Crimea is Ukraine and not Russia. Russia signed a treaty guaranteeing Ukraine's territorial boundaries - which included Crimea - after which Ukraine gave up its nukes. Further, Russia made an agreement at least twice with Ukraine to lease the naval base; thus again recognizing that Crimea is Ukrainian.

Blogger Robert What? July 26, 2018 11:50 AM  

I voted for Trump and I'd do it again, but Trump doesn't seem to have a great track record with appointments.

Blogger John Calla July 26, 2018 11:50 AM  

@14 Is it me or do they off on their own tangent, not conferring with Trump on matters like this?

Returning Crimea has been the official administration stance since the beginning. Nikki Haley yammers about it every chance she gets, and the press secretaries have mentioned it numerous times. Pompeo is just repeating the line.

Blogger Salt July 26, 2018 11:58 AM  

Trump ambiguously responded: "We're going to have to see."

Translation: Watch what fake news CNN does after Pompeo feeds them a shit sandwich.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey July 26, 2018 11:59 AM  

@3 @4
Yeah, the Russians took it from the Khans, held it for hundreds of years, it's inhabited by Russians...
Sure, Kruschev gave it to Ukraine -- while they were part of the USSR, so it was just an internal administrative issue.

But how dumb do you have to be to preen and posture about "self-determination" and "spreading democracy" for nearly 100 years, only to turn around and reject the overwhelming results of a free and fair referendum:

1. When used in reference to domestic issues, "democracy" denotes rule by a combination of kritarchy and deep state.

2. When used in reference to international relations, "democracy" (or, alternatively, "human rights") means either the interests of the deep state/ ZOG's empire, globohomofeminism, or both.

These definitions have been well established by decades of use, and have now superceded the original, literal definition.

A more recent tertiary definition for "democracy" is "Bill Browder's financial interests."

I think you might be underestimating the powers of associative conditioning/ owning the megaphone here, and overestimating the power of rationality. I hope not, though.

Blogger Stephen Davenport July 26, 2018 11:59 AM  

So basically you are saying the Russians were the victims and not the Ukrainians. Poor widdle Russkies.

Blogger VD July 26, 2018 12:08 PM  

Except it wasn't "free and fair". It was held under Russian bayonets with the bulk of the population not voting because it was an illegal referendum conducted under an occupier. If one does some research this is clear.

Bullshit. They never voted to join Ukraine. They have voted to join Russia. They are Russians.

Blogger Gen. Kong July 26, 2018 12:12 PM  

That's not the only retarded thing being done by the Gay Old Pedobears. Despite all the dense clouds of hopium and ganja-weed triumphalism over at the Q-Nostradamium, not a single major figure has been arrested truly egregious crimes - despite mountains of evidence against them. The D-jerseys have supposedly created 12 million new voters - including voter registration of illegal aliens - and the mid-terms approach rapidly. Trump has threatened to terminate the security clearances of openly treasonous former officials - yet they all still have access. There have been more gun-control enactments nationwide under Trump than under Obama. Who's really in charge here? Trump or the Deep State? There's obviously a serious contest under way, but the outcome does not appear to be nearly as certain as the cheerleaders claim it is. The Crimea (and Ukraine) idiocies are merely a couple of examples out of many which could be cited. As noted at the top of this post, even when Sessions actually gets off his ass and does something reasonable, the Gay Old Pedos in congress write legislation to undo it.

Blogger pyrrhus July 26, 2018 12:13 PM  

Pompeo is a very stupid and vicious neocon, right up there with the evil Nikki Haley....How Trump got stuck with these warmongers will be an interesting story one day, if the US can avoid nuclear war.

Blogger hadley July 26, 2018 12:19 PM  

"It is self-evident that Crimea is Ukraine and not Russia. Russia signed a treaty guaranteeing Ukraine's territorial boundaries - which included Crimea - after which Ukraine gave up its nukes."

Pity that the Russians and Ukrainians thought they could sell/swap/gift the Crimeans like a piece of meat -- first in 1954, and second after the Ukrainian/Russian treaty.

Seeing that the Crimeans are Russian speakers, maybe they should have asked them.

Blogger Resident Moron™ July 26, 2018 12:19 PM  

No I’m saying that normie is a synonym for idiot, a tribe that (as Ambrose Bierce noted) has always had an overwhelming effect in politics.

Blogger S1AL July 26, 2018 12:22 PM  

"Pity that the Russians and Ukrainians thought they could sell/swap/gift the Crimeans like a piece of meat -- first in 1954, and second after the Ukrainian/Russian treaty.

Seeing that the Crimeans are Russian speakers, maybe they should have asked them."

You act like this is something new. The reality is that Crimea is an amalgamation of otherwise-unrelated ethnic groups that has been passed around like the village bicycle for over a thousand years.

Blogger hadley July 26, 2018 12:23 PM  

Nikki Haley [aka Nimrata Randhawa] has to go home to Sikhland in India and help her people.

We can take care of ourselves just fine.

Blogger Patrick Kelly July 26, 2018 12:24 PM  

"Same thing as Lincoln's invading the border states to prevent a real referendum on secession, and forcibly keeping the States in the Union. "

Yep, and Trump should butt in as much as the Czar did then.

Blogger The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey July 26, 2018 12:24 PM  

Russia is never giving up Sevastopol without a big fight. Never, ever, such a notion is unthinkable in Moscow.


The best course is to accept that and move on. They will never budge on this.

Blogger ZhukovG July 26, 2018 12:25 PM  

Crimea has wanted to rejoin Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union. They were prevented from doing so early on since Russia at the time was too weak to help them.

Crimea is 60% ethnic Russian and only 20% ethnic Ukrainian. Many of the Ukrainians in Crimea speak Russian as their first language. The results of the referendum are not at all surprising to anyone who knows anything about Crimea.

Blogger dienw July 26, 2018 12:26 PM  

VD wrote:Except it wasn't "free and fair". It was held under Russian bayonets with the bulk of the population not voting because it was an illegal referendum conducted under an occupier. If one does some research this is clear.

Bullshit. They never voted to join Ukraine. They have voted to join Russia. They are Russians.


One can just as easily declare that the Crimea was given to the Ukraine by an occupying power: the Judaeo-Bolshevik Socialist Empire.

Blogger hadley July 26, 2018 12:31 PM  

"You act like this is something new."

Nope. It's old as dirt. Just like Moldavia (aka Moldova).

Which, by the way, is another place in which the neolibs and neocons are Deep Stating the next Color Revolution.

No chance of a real free-n-fair ™ referendum there, either.

Blogger James Jones July 26, 2018 12:33 PM  

If people really were that stupid they never would have voted Trump in, with the whole of the media and his own party briefing against him. Same with Brexit.

Blogger tuberman July 26, 2018 12:34 PM  

LG

One thing is for sure, Trump won't do anything about Russia having the Crimea beyond words. Crimea is too important for Russia to give up, think warm-water navy.

Blogger Matamoros July 26, 2018 12:38 PM  

@33 "One can just as easily declare that the Crimea was given to the Ukraine by an occupying power: the Judaeo-Bolshevik Socialist Empire."

The problem is that you cannot get around the fact that the Russian Federation recognized Crimea as Ukraine - and concluded treaties and contracts with Ukraine regarding it.

One can go back and show that Crimea was Ukraine under the Kievan Rus, in the 1600s, at the Paris Peace Conference in 1919, whatever. Doesn't matter. Russia has to live up to its word.

Blogger pyrrhus July 26, 2018 12:39 PM  

@37 Crimea IS Russia, and ethnic Russian. The Donbass is also heavily Russian, and will eventually join Russia...But for now, Putin is keeping a low profile on the matter. In a war to the knife, however, the Neo-nazis in Kiev would be eliminated within a matter of days, and the Russian speaking part of the Ukraine would rejoin Russia. Poland would get its piece back too...

Blogger ZhukovG July 26, 2018 12:53 PM  

@Matamoros: The principal of 'Territorial Integrity' is intended to protect a country from loss of territory 'by force'.

It does not prevent the people of a territory from choosing to separate from one political entity in order to join another. It also does not prevent another country from performing a 'Humanitarian Intervention' on behalf of those people.

Russia did nothing wrong.

Blogger Resident Moron™ July 26, 2018 12:54 PM  

NATO promised to stay out of the western soviet satellites, too.

Who voided the agreement first?

Blogger allyn71 July 26, 2018 12:56 PM  

Crimiea Russian vs Ukrainian. Possession is 90% of the law. Russia has it and short of nuclear war it is never giving it back. Any arguing about legalities is just a bunch of fruitless fapping. Crimea is Russian today and grows more so with every setting sun. There is nothing that will change that.

Blogger English Tom July 26, 2018 12:59 PM  

@Longtime Lurker

Re: Russia giving up Kaliningrad.

It's certainly possible but I dont think the Russians would do this as Kaliningrad serves a similar strategic function to Russia as Crimea, just on a different sea/flank.

Blogger English Tom July 26, 2018 1:07 PM  

Re: Kaliningrad

Russia sees Kaliningrad as first line of defence for St Petersburg (see: 900 days a book on siege of Leningrad {St Petersburg} those wounds are still fresh in Russian minds).

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey July 26, 2018 1:07 PM  

On a related note, I wholeheartedly recommend Alex Krainev's book "The Killing of William Browder" for anyone who wants some additional background on the Russia conspiracy theory and the neocons' rabid, unhinged Russophobia. It was banned by Amazon, but you can find it elsewhere online. (If you search for it on Amazon, you get links to Browder's book, of course. Muh "free press.")

Andrei Nekrasov's documentary "The Magnitsky Act: Behind the Scenes" is a good documentary about Browder and how he got the Magnitsky Act passed. Nekrasov is anti-Putin, and started out sympathetic to Browder, but realized in the course of making the documentary that the guy is a lying sack of s##t. The documentary is up on YT last I checked -- who knows how long it will last. Gets banned a lot. I haven't seen it for sale anywhere (and forget about public screenings, of course).

Going a little farther back, most of the info about the role of (((Americans))) in the Rape of Russia in the 90s was suppressed in the West. Not just Browder's involvement, but Larry Summers, Jeffrey Sachs, Andrei Schleifer and their partners in crime at the Harvard Institute of International Development were heavily involved in the "voucher privatization" scam (as were the Clintons, of course). Yeltsin didn't care as long as he got bribed with a few billion from the IMF. And he could call out the artillery (literally) to deal with the Russian parliament when they objected -- as he did.

The people who benefited from "privatization" programs in Russia in the 90s were, of course, the descendants of the original (((Bolsheviks))).

Anne Williamson's Congressional testimony is good on this topic, but it looks like her book "Contagion" was killed completely. Can't find it anywhere online.

Blogger cheddarman July 26, 2018 1:14 PM  

Vox never underestimate american stupidity

Blogger English Tom July 26, 2018 1:15 PM  

One can only imagine the horror that gripped ordinary Crimean's when they saw the mayhem and carnage created by the coup, and the extreme anti-Russian antipathy shown by the coup leaders. They were given a choice: stability or chaos. Does anyone blame them for voting how they did?

Blogger marco moltisanti July 26, 2018 1:19 PM  

Have you ever been to Crimea? Do you speak Russian? I have been there several times and I speak Russian. Never met anyone there except the odd Tatar who wanted to be part of Ukraine or considered himself anything but Russian. A Crimean Slavic friend I'm still in touch with assures me everyone's thrilled to be part of Russia again.

Blogger Peter Gent July 26, 2018 1:21 PM  

I can't access this where I am right now, but you might try this.
Anne Williamson, Contagion: The Betrayal of Liberty; http://www.lenta.ru/lib/14160313/full.htm

Blogger English Tom July 26, 2018 1:23 PM  

@Francis Parkey Yockey

Re: Democracy

Thank you for the clarification.

Blogger marco moltisanti July 26, 2018 1:24 PM  

100% correct based on what I saw the several times I've visited Crimea. Never met anyone there who considered himself Ukrainian or wanted anything but to be reunited with Russia, except maybe for the small Tatar minority.

Blogger Nameless One July 26, 2018 1:29 PM  

It's a bargaining chip for Trump and the US. When next time he wants something from Putin, he can throw "we'll recognize Crimea as part of Russia" as a chip on the table in return. You dont' give up a chip like that for nothing.

Blogger English Tom July 26, 2018 1:30 PM  

@Matamoros

The problem is that Russia has incorporated Crimea and as other commenters have noted, Russia will go to war to prevent the loss of Crimea. Take that to the bank.

Blogger DonReynolds July 26, 2018 1:35 PM  

Even after the UN Declaration of Human Rights, and having signed the Helsinki Accords, the US does not have the right or the opportunity to reject the plebiscite election by the Crimea. Yes, I said it.....plebiscite. The highest expression a free people can make regarding their will, exercising the highest authority on their own self determination. (I wish we had those here....and often. All we get are public opinion polls.)

The Crimea is not Ukrainian. The people who live there are not Ukrainian. The history, culture, and the traditions....none of which are Ukrainian. They are ethnic Russians and the Black Sea Fleet has been parked there since they drove out the Turks. (When was that....Peter the Great?) The Black Sea Fleet is still parked there. That is Hawaii to the Russian Navy.

What is it, if I agree to let you keep your wife, if you will let me have your car? This is really crummy negotiation. It is time for some adult supervision. Send the NeoCons packing.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener July 26, 2018 1:41 PM  

Crimea is something like 95% ethically Russia, so Russia has a more legitimate claim to Crimea than the US does to Texas and California.

Pompeo's tactic lately has been to counter Democrat accusations that Trump has colluded with Russia by claiming that Russia is really afraid of Trump because he's so tough on them. It's completely inept. The left doesn't care about the truth, the right knows this is all phony, and no one else is paying attention. Who is Pompeo trying to convince?

Blogger English Tom July 26, 2018 1:42 PM  

@Francis Parker Yockey

Thanks for the book tip. You might want to check:

The Piratization of Russia by Marshall Goldman. Makes similar observations re: the voucher system and the (((usual suspects))).

Blogger DonReynolds July 26, 2018 1:44 PM  

Nameless One wrote:It's a bargaining chip for Trump and the US. When next time he wants something from Putin, he can throw "we'll recognize Crimea as part of Russia" as a chip on the table in return. You dont' give up a chip like that for nothing.



Perhaps Putin will add his own worthless chip to the table and offer to recognize the state of West Virginia, which is unconstitutional, not having the agreement of the Virginia General Assembly before it was created. There. Now both sides have a totally worthless chip.

Blogger Hammerli280 July 26, 2018 1:51 PM  

Concur with the bargaining chip theory. Protecting the Baltic States is more important, shielding the former Warsaw Pact more important still.

Putin is no saint. But I respect him for playing a poor geopolitical hand with consummate skill. If Europe got its act together, they could contain Russia without American help. But that's a massive "IF".

And we've got more important affairs to deal with in the Pacific...and not coincidentally, with our defense structure.

Blogger Longtime Lurker July 26, 2018 1:55 PM  

@42: "It's certainly possible but I dont think the Russians would do this as Kaliningrad serves a similar strategic function to Russia as Crimea, just on a different sea/flank."

Concur, but there are fallback negotiating positions, such as seeking reduction of forces/demilitarization, which could improve security conditions in the Baltic region, freeing U.S. and European military forces for other tasks.

The simple facts are (1) Crimea is Russian territory, (2) Russia is not going to give it back, and (3) the issue of Crimea has created a new, permanent obstacle to closer U.S.-Russia relations.

May as well try to get something in return for recognizing Russia's fait accompli in Crimea.

Blogger DonReynolds July 26, 2018 1:56 PM  

English Tom wrote:@Longtime Lurker

Re: Russia giving up Kaliningrad.

It's certainly possible but I dont think the Russians would do this as Kaliningrad serves a similar strategic function to Russia as Crimea, just on a different sea/flank.


Kaliningrad is not one of the Baltic Republics. It is part of Russia itself. They would no more leave Kaliningrad than the US would leave Alaska. It may not be contiguous to the rest of the country, but it is considered one of the states.

Blogger ZhukovG July 26, 2018 2:02 PM  

@marco moltisanti: From what I have heard, even the Crimean Tater minority is coming around to preferring Russia over Ukraine.

Blogger ZhukovG July 26, 2018 2:07 PM  

As for Kaliningrad Oblast. That area is more Russian than Russia. Almost 90% of the population is ethnic Russian.

Currently there are more Armenians in Kaliningrad than Germans.

Also, it is the HQ of the Russian Baltic Fleet.

It's not going anywhere without a war.

Blogger English Tom July 26, 2018 2:10 PM  

@Longtime Lurker

There sad fact is that the acrimony over Crimea and Russia's 'perceived' threat to Europe are but mere symptoms. One can certainly link back to Brzezinski's the Grand Chessboard regarding US worries over a Eurasian rival emerging. If the US left Europe then basically they are a midwife to the rise of the Eurasian Economic Union EAEU. I think this is what the banksters want and so Russia bashing is part of their script, carried out by their Neocon activists.

Blogger English Tom July 26, 2018 2:13 PM  

@Don Reynolds

Re: Kaliningrad

Absolutely correct. Kaliningrad is an integral part of Russia, as is Crimea, and international law gives states the right to defend territorial integrity from aggression.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 26, 2018 2:21 PM  

Gen. Kong wrote:Despite all the dense clouds of hopium and ganja-weed triumphalism over at the Q-Nostradamium, not a single major figure has been arrested truly egregious crimes - despite mountains of evidence against them.

Tens of thousands of sealed indictments, supposedly. The number might as well be zero, if they're never going to be unsealed. Might as well arrest them all now, send them to Guantanamo, or to the grave. There is going to be war, so let's strike first.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 26, 2018 2:23 PM  

Matamoros wrote:One can go back and show that Crimea was Ukraine under the Kievan Rus, in the 1600s, at the Paris Peace Conference in 1919, whatever.

Why should I, or anyone, care?

Matamoros wrote: Russia has to live up to its word.

Who is going to make them? Not I. Not my country. It's not our circus, not our monkeys.

Blogger Dire Badger July 26, 2018 2:24 PM  

I am waiting 3 days

Blogger S1AL July 26, 2018 2:25 PM  

"Crimea is something like 95% ethically Russia, so Russia has a more legitimate claim to Crimea than the US does to Texas and California."

Less than 70%, after a century of slaughter, holodomor, and ethnic cleansing. And that's probably dramatically overstated due to people who would otherwise say mixed/unknown putting "Russian" because that's the language they speak.

Blogger Aaron Farnsworth July 26, 2018 2:25 PM  

I don't think that author knows what "ambiguous" means.

Blogger marco moltisanti July 26, 2018 3:12 PM  

Wouldn't surprise me. I just wanted to cover my bases because I only ever spoke to two or three Tatars in Crimea. They seemed like a pretty small minority. As far as Slavs in Crimea, I can't recall meeting a single one who considered himself Ukrainian.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey July 26, 2018 3:37 PM  

@55
Thanks.

48. Looks like a bio of (((Anatoly Chubais))) -- chapter from the book? Comes out surprisingly readable through Google Translate. Thanks.

Blogger RA July 26, 2018 3:42 PM  

Just what was Putin's great sin in the eyes of the Deep State? It was that he wrested control of Russia away from them and that he broke the oligarchs to his fist. No more NY bankers getting to loot the country with Browder's help. So ... they want that war and are frothing at the mouth to get him and anyone who doesn't agree with them is automagically a traitor.

Martin Armstrong was on to Browder, et al, long ago. His account of the LTCM crisis has always been an interesting one.

Blogger Al K. Annossow July 26, 2018 3:47 PM  

RA wrote:Putin ... broke the oligarchs to his fist.
I suspect he didn't break them but merely delineated lines of influence between they and him. I fear that could be lost when Putin leaves. I wish Putin and Trump would collude to weaken their global enemies.

Blogger Haxo Angmark July 26, 2018 3:48 PM  

hilarious...

Pompeo: "Russia! give us your most important naval base!"

Putin: "no."

the 'Murkan ZOG is no longer to be taken seriously.

"God Emperor" notwithstanding.

Blogger Matamoros July 26, 2018 3:51 PM  

@38

Same situation in Donbass. Doesn't matter that it may or may not be ethnically Russian, depending upon how you define that.

Russia freely signed the treaty guaranteeing Ukraine's territorial integrity. Whether you like Ukraine's government or not is irrelevant. Russia bound herself and broke those guarantees.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

"According to the memorandum, Russia, the U.S., and the UK confirmed, in recognition of Ukraine becoming party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and in effect abandoning its nuclear arsenal to Russia, that they would:

1. Respect Ukrainian independence borders.[13]
2. Refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine.
3. Refrain from using economic pressure on Ukraine in order to influence its politics.
4. Seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, "if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".
5. Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Ukraine.
6. Consult with one another if questions arise regarding these commitments"

The question is clear. Russia recognized and guaranteed the territorial borders of Ukraine.

Put the shoe on the other foot. There are large numbers of Ukrainians in Russia. What if they decide they want these areas to secede from Russia. Do you seriously think Putin would stand for it?

Blogger ZhukovG July 26, 2018 3:54 PM  

@marco moltisanti: I watched a BBC Documentary on the Crimean Crisis and Referendum. It was clearly trying to be anti-Russian. It was kind of funny and pathetic. In order to get anyone to talk against Russia they kept interviewing the same two scraggy basement dwellers over and over.

Then they talked to a school teacher, who was Ukrainian. She made it clear she was voting to join Russia. She was sick of begging parents for money to buy school supplies for her students. 'In Russia, she said, she would have a budget from the State to buy the children their supplies.'

Blogger Matamoros July 26, 2018 3:58 PM  

@32 Zhukov "Crimea has wanted to rejoin Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union"

https://infogalactic.com/info/Ukrainian_independence_referendum,_1991

Crimean ASSR - 54% in favor of being part of Ukraine.

Donetsk - 64%
Luhansk - 68%

You have to get beyond the propaganda and back to the facts of the matter, like it or not.

Blogger Андрій Пенцак July 26, 2018 3:58 PM  

@24
They never voted to join Ukraine.

Eh, well in 1991 Crimea and Sevastopol voted like 55-60% for Independence of Ukraine. So no, they have voted.

They have voted to join Russia.

Again, does referendum under bayonets count? Or you are denying presence of Russian military in Crimea in 2014?

They are Russians.

65% of them. Let Crimean Tatars and Ukrainans get their piece of Crimea then. Or it would be fair?

Blogger ZhukovG July 26, 2018 4:02 PM  

@Matamoros: There are 100s of thousands of Ukrainians in Russia. They fled your Ukro-Nazi, Stepan Bandera worshiping buddies. I don't think Russia has anything to worry about.

If Russia sent the First Guards Tank Army into Ukraine tomorrow and took Kiev 72 hours later, it would be a humanitarian gesture. An act of supreme charity.

Unfortunately, Russia can't afford to fix the mess that Ukraine is currently in, thanks to Western meddling.

It is the West that is destroying Ukraine, not Russia.

Blogger Chris Mallory July 26, 2018 4:03 PM  

Russia, Ukraine or Latveria, it is no business of the US government or responsibility of the American tax payer who rules Crimea.

Blogger Matamoros July 26, 2018 4:07 PM  

@41 "ossession is 90% of the law."

You badly misunderstand the problem. See the votes to join Ukraine in 1991. That means that Ukraine possesses Crimea and Eastern Ukraine by right. Russia took it and holds it; but will ultimately lose it.

I am not anti-Russian; but these actions are destroying Russia economically and politically.

Crimea, and to a lesser extent Donbass, are breaking Russia. Do some research and you will see that both are being massively subsidized by the Russian State to the detriment of the Russian people. Look at the sums spent that Russia simply doesn't have except by robbing Peter to pay Paul. Crimea is not a productive area. In fact, Ukraine had to subsidize Crimea as well, and the Ukrainian mainland is closer than Russia.

Hospitals and schools are being closed all over Russia. Pensions confiscated or reduced by the State. Wages lowered by the State even for teachers. Retirement age is being pushed higher. Goods and foodstuffs are more expensive all the time while Russian wages and earning power are sinking.

The financial strain of holding Crimea will be what cracks the situation, not military action.

Blogger Андрій Пенцак July 26, 2018 4:11 PM  

ZhukovG wrote:@Matamoros: There are 100s of thousands of Ukrainians in Russia. They fled your Ukro-Nazi, Stepan Bandera worshiping buddies. I don't think Russia has anything to worry about.

If Russia sent the First Guards Tank Army into Ukraine tomorrow and took Kiev 72 hours later, it would be a humanitarian gesture. An act of supreme charity.

Unfortunately, Russia can't afford to fix the mess that Ukraine is currently in, thanks to Western meddling.

It is the West that is destroying Ukraine, not Russia.


A) They both destroying Ukraine. Either is good influence.
B) If Russian could take Kyiv in 72 hours then Russian would have done it already.
C) Russia is a mess too, so don't act so smug.
D) Ukro-Nazi? Are you for real? Name one Nazi that is in power in Ukraine.

Blogger Matamoros July 26, 2018 4:12 PM  

@47. marco moltisanti " Have you ever been to Crimea? Do you speak Russian? I have been there several times and I speak Russian. "

Yes, and yes. The majority keep their head down, but do not like the Russian occupation. Wages are down, food and essential supplies are much more expensive. Even the tourist areas are greatly depressed since the anschluss.

The whole thing is a massive tragedy that will ultimately correct itself.

Blogger SirHamster July 26, 2018 4:20 PM  

Nameless One wrote:It's a bargaining chip for Trump and the US. When next time he wants something from Putin, he can throw "we'll recognize Crimea as part of Russia" as a chip on the table in return. You dont' give up a chip like that for nothing.


Trump: "Our official policy is that we'll never recognize your annexation of Crimea ... but for this concession, let's talk."

Blogger SirHamster July 26, 2018 4:24 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey July 26, 2018 4:36 PM  

Speaking of democracy, is the State Dept/ (((Nuland)))-backed 2014 coup in Ukraine that ousted the democratically-elected president (Yanuyovch) supposed to be a shining example of "democracy" in action? Just curious.

Blogger John Calla July 26, 2018 4:41 PM  

@80 Hospitals and schools are being closed all over Russia. Pensions confiscated or reduced by the State. Wages lowered by the State even for teachers. Retirement age is being pushed higher. Goods and foodstuffs are more expensive all the time while Russian wages and earning power are sinking.

This isn't too surprising considering the age demographics. Their population pyramid is totally lop-sided. Their difficult times are just beginning.

@79 Russia, Ukraine or Latveria, it is no business of the US government or responsibility of the American tax payer who rules Crimea.

I guess it's our business as long as we have security guarantees for NATO countries. Once we get out of all of these security guarantees we won't have to care anymore. Same thing with Taiwan and our commitments in East Asia.

@71 Just what was Putin's great sin in the eyes of the Deep State? It was that he wrested control of Russia away from them and that he broke the oligarchs to his fist.

I think the oligarchs are still running and looting Russia, and my understanding is that Putin is doing just as much looting as the rest. What's his net worth, BTW?

Blogger Matamoros July 26, 2018 4:49 PM  

THE WORLD'S RICHEST MAN? Vladimir Putin ‘has a £160 billion fortune that includes 58 planes and helicopters and 20 secret retreats’, expert claims

https://www.thesun.co.uk/world-cup-2018/2913385/vladimir-putin-net-worth-fortune/

And to think he started with nothing as Yeltsin's successor.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey July 26, 2018 5:01 PM  

@86
Well of course Putin had to come to some sort of terms with the (((Russian))) oligarchs and their (((American))) counterparts. That's simply reality.

But one of the major reasons for the current whining in the controlled media is that people like (((Browder))) and some of his fellow tribesmen are unhappy that they can't loot the Russian people as freely as they could a few years ago.

Oy vey -- what a tragedy.

Blogger eyeslevel July 26, 2018 5:04 PM  

How was separating Kosovo from Serbia any more legal than separating Crimea from the Ukraine?

Blogger Matamoros July 26, 2018 5:06 PM  

A friend in Vladivostok some years ago told the tale that Putin didn't do away with the Oligarchs and Mafiya, he brought them into the government.

In fact, as he related, the mayor of Vladivostok was one of these and was jailed for something, yet remained the mayor, running the city, from behind bars and collecting his money.

Russians have a saying, "Eto Rossiya" ("Its Russia").

Blogger English Tom July 26, 2018 5:11 PM  

@Matamoros

You obviously have a thing for treaties and the obligations accompanying them. This is all well and good but if things change then treaties just get ignored. I seemed to recall a treaty of non aggression between Hitler and Stalin but a little thing called Barbarossa put paid to that.

It's called realpolitik for a reason. Get with it.

Blogger English Tom July 26, 2018 5:14 PM  

@ZhukovG

It is (((the West))) that is destroying Ukraine...

FIFY

Blogger NO GOOGLES July 26, 2018 5:14 PM  

Crimea has been Russian since the early 1700s. The only reason that Ukraine got it when the USSR fell apart was that Stalin purposefully separated Crimea from the Ukranian district because he did not want unified groups to cause problems with dissent. Something he was quite famous for during his reign, and that has caused and will continue to cause problems as a lot of post-USSR borders were drawn based on his artificial districts that don't reflect actual divisions of people.

Crimea is an expense for Russia, but it's a massively important one. It's Russia's only reliable warm-water port on this side of the world and once the Nuland-backed political coup in Ukraine became a reality, the chances of Russia being able to continue its lease of land in Crimea for its port evaporated completely.

In reality, if the West hadn't interfered with putting a pro-EU government into power in Ukraine, Russia would have been able to keep its port lease and wouldn't have needed to invade Crimea to maintain its warm-water port.

Just another in the very long line of idiotic neocon/globalist foreign policy decisions that have created big problems where none existed previously. Russia wants to avoid taking the rest of Ukraine as much as possible because it would be a massive hole they would be forced to dump cash into without end. Even holding Crimea is expensive, but it is necessary from a national defense standpoint.

There is no good solution to this situation that I can see. A reversion to the previous situation of Ukraine holding the territory and Russia leasing the territory to maintain its port seems impossible, even though it was the best practical solution for both sides. Ukraine got to keep its territory and Russia got its warm water port with a minimum of cost. Now it's just madness and stupidity with no end in sight.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey July 26, 2018 5:15 PM  

@89
Because the former benefited Albanian Muslims, and the latter, Russian Christians, of course.

Or something like that.

Blogger English Tom July 26, 2018 5:17 PM  

@Francis Parker Yockey

Re: the Nuland coup as democracy in action.

We can always stretch definitions now we live in a post-truth world!

Blogger English Tom July 26, 2018 5:20 PM  

@Matamoros

You quoted the Sun. Good God. Murdoch's rag. Ask the people of Liverpool how truthful the Sun is. Ask the families of murdered children whose phones got hacked what they think of that odious satanic organisation.

Blogger Dire Badger July 26, 2018 5:23 PM  

Matamoros wrote:Russia freely signed the treaty guaranteeing Ukraine's territorial integrity.

Sure. Let's just pretend that the Ukraine has the same government as it did in 91. Oh, and that Russia is even the same country as that which signed the treaty.

Sorry, but when a government is overthrown, treaties no longer hold and must be renegotiated. No one ever did.

Blogger English Tom July 26, 2018 5:25 PM  

@Eyeslevel

You make an incredibly important point. Jane's Intelligence Digest quoted Russian officials at the time Kosovo was detached from Serbia. They pointed out it completely overturned the world order that had been in place since 1648 and the treaty of Westphalia (are you reading this Matamoros)?

They have since further refined this with R2P Responsibility to Protect. Another odious tool of imperialism couched in that old favourite, human rights.

Blogger Frank Brady July 26, 2018 5:28 PM  

Matamoros, one might think that you are a Ukrainian bot.

The people of Crimea voted overwhelmingly to rejoin Russia after U.S. bipartisan neocons (McCain & Hillary Clinton) spent $5 billion to overthrow the democratically-elected president of the Ukraine in February 2014.

Yeltsin, who is nearly as corrupt as the Clinton's was running Russia when it signed the treaty you're so fond of quoting.

Blogger Unknown July 26, 2018 5:58 PM  

"Pompeo is a very stupid and vicious neocon, right up there with the evil Nikki Haley....How Trump got stuck with these warmongers will be an interesting story one day, if the US can avoid nuclear war."

Gawd, are you really that stupid or are you just another David Brock kiddie-diddler, pissnuts?

Pompeo has more brains in his pinkie's fingernail that you do behind your blind eyes!

Oh well, just another example of TRUMP shaking the obvious nuts out of the trees,eh, pissnuts?!

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey July 26, 2018 6:01 PM  

@95
"Democracy" means what WE say it means!

@98

Yep. On a more practical level, a big part of the underlying problem with the former Yugoslavia was that the boundaries of regions within Communist Yugoslavia, for internal political reasons, did not correspond well to the boundaries of the various nations making up the country, with the Serbs in particular shortchanged. The rational solution would have been to come to some kind of reasonable terms over boundaries, +/- reciprocal population transfers. The other possibility, of course, would be to construct one of these "Anuddah Hitlah!" morality plays, and demonize one side, while holdin the other innocent...

Tangentially related -- I remember seeing a (declassified) NSA analysis of Tito's speech patterns/ accent that concluded that there was no way in hell that he was a native speaker of Serbo-Croatian; i.e. he was NOT Josip Broz. Who was he really, and where was he actually from? No one (publicly) knows, apparently.

Blogger Trinian July 26, 2018 6:44 PM  

DonReynolds wrote:The Crimea is not Ukrainian. The people who live there are not Ukrainian. The history, culture, and the traditions....none of which are Ukrainian. They are ethnic Russians and the Black Sea Fleet has been parked there since they drove out the Turks. (When was that....Peter the Great?)

Actually, Russia acquired Crimea during the reign of Catherine the Great about the time of the Revolutionary War.

The reason so many inhabitants of Crimea are Russian is because Stalin moved most of the Crimean Tatars to Central Asia (Uzbekistan, I believe).

Blogger Matamoros July 26, 2018 7:26 PM  

@91 English Tom

Actually it was a little thing called Stalin going into Bessarabia in Romania that broke the treaty and led to Barbarossa.

If you aren't going to recognize the rule of law then you can argue anything, as many have here.

Realpolitik is not anarchy, or the right of a State to do as they please, as you seem to think.

@96 English Tom

You wish to use emotionalism, and disparage sources because you have none.

@97 Dire Badger

Yes, Ukraine has the same government as in 1991. Your wishful thinking on delegitimatizing the government also cuts against Russia and delegitimatizes her as well.

Study some international law.

@99 Frank Brady

No, but there are a lot of Russian shills here for whom there is no rule of law, or right, only power - or as English Tom calls it "RealPolitik".

Puleese! If you even bother to study the so called supposed referendum, 1) it was illegal, 2) it was held under Russian bayonets, 3) Russia could get only about 30% of the people to vote at all as no one recognized Russia's occupation, etc., etc. But you go on ahead and believe what you wish.

Rhetoric does not trump facts. And as for RealPolitik Donald Trump is probably the greatest practitioner ever of true RealPolitiks.

Russia is a great country on the ropes because of the annexation. It is in slow but accelerating collapse. When it happens you will see China's and the Moslem caliphate's move to fill the vacuum.

Crimea and Donbass are a Russian tragedy enacted on Ukrainian territory, but destroying the Rodina.

'Nuff said.

Blogger Unknown July 26, 2018 7:54 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Лъв July 26, 2018 8:01 PM  

Matamoros, while you are right in certain aspects, you focus on Russia too much.According to you,does USA hold any blame for what is happening in Ukraine ? Because in my country for example, the degenerate american ambassador organized a gay pride parade in the capital, while the citizens were against it, and to top it all off we the taxpayers had to pay for their protection. USA has very dirty politics.

Blogger Crew July 26, 2018 8:07 PM  

I think the statement by Pompeo is one where he knows Russia is not going to give up Crimea but he keeps (((them))) happy by saying that.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey July 26, 2018 8:19 PM  

@103
Kinda comical to see someone so irrationally determined to maintain his wholly emotionally-based beliefs in the face of the facts. So a referendum in which the vast majority voted to join Russia was somehow "illegitimate?" Because the State Dept and the (((neocons))) voted "no" -- and they're the only votes that really count, of course.

Meanwhile, the (((Nuland)))/ state Dept-backed 2014 coup was a peaceful, "democratic" transition, right? Oh wait, my mistake -- even better:

Ukraine has the same government as in 1991

It never happened, goy.

That's how "democracy" works, doncha know. In clown world, anyway.

Blogger Lazarus July 26, 2018 8:29 PM  

Study some international law.

The International Law is what the U.N, Security Council says it is.
Russia is on the U.N Security Council.

How many Divisions does the International Law have?

Blogger sapopular July 26, 2018 10:06 PM  

"rejects Russia's attempted annexation of Crimea"

Well... if they already have full control over the territory, it is no longer an attempt. The annexation is complete. The locals are ethnic Russians.

Blogger Dire Badger July 26, 2018 10:25 PM  

Matamoros wrote:Yes, Ukraine has the same government as in 1991. Your wishful thinking on delegitimatizing the government also cuts against Russia and delegitimatizes her as well.

Study some international law.


Bullshit. The lawfully elected government was overthrown by OUR bad actors.

YOU study some international law. Since it is all primarily fiction, a leftist stooge like you should be right at home. International 'law' exists only so long as everyone agrees with it. Apparently Russia doesn't agree to it, therefore it does not apply.

And Yeltsin's government is LONG gone. So while I am reading the fiction you call 'international law', how about you get your dick out of your high-horse and study some history.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 26, 2018 10:33 PM  

"Realpolitik is not anarchy, or the right of a State to do as they please, as you seem to think."

Laws are not uncommonly unworkable bullsh** that no one actually follows, and what actually happens is based on who has the power and how strongly they wish to (and are capable to) enforce the laws.

That is realpolitik.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 26, 2018 10:36 PM  

This is exactly the reason for the saying "possession is nine tenths of the law".

Russia has it, they aren't giving it up, and I seriously doubt anyone can take it from them at the current time. This is both because Russia is strong, and because the majority of the region is more similar by blood to the Russians than the Ukrainians. Realpolitik.

Blogger Didas Kalos July 26, 2018 10:54 PM  

Agreed with phyrrus. "Pompeo is a very stupid and vicious neocon, right up there with the evil Nikki Haley....How Trump got stuck with these warmongers will be an interesting story one day, if the US can avoid nuclear war." If only we could get into DJT's head on this. Sigh...

Blogger Bernard Korzeniewicz July 27, 2018 12:27 AM  

Commies pledged Crimea for 20 years in 1934.

Blogger lannes July 27, 2018 7:24 AM  

Yet we recognize North Vietnam's "annexation" of South Vietnam.

Blogger The Foolproof July 27, 2018 8:01 AM  

I’m vehemently pro-Ukraine, but I see Crimea as a done deal at this point. While I don’t recognise the referendum itself as “free and fair”, the fact is that Crimea’s residents have favored rejoining Russia for years.

The US would do well to offer recognition of Russia’s claim on Crimea in return for withdrawal of Russian forces from the Donbas and the reestablishment of Ukrainian authority there.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey July 27, 2018 11:16 AM  

@116

The US would do well to offer recognition of Russia’s claim on Crimea in return for withdrawal of Russian forces from the Donbas and the reestablishment of Ukrainian authority there.

You're thinking like a member of the "reality-based" community, though.

Neocons don't think like that. To them, it's more "Define a useful narrative. Keep beating people over the head with that narrative, using the power of media control, until they believe you and go along with the plan. And of course, never disclose the real reasons for your plan. If things don't work out as you planned, then just keep rewriting history until, 40 or 50 years down the road, people believe that they did."

Reality doesn't matter. Truth doesn't matter. Word magic has nearly unlimited power to alter reality. That's the way they see it.

Blogger Dirk Manly July 28, 2018 5:33 AM  

@2

"Russia probably wants to expand its territory westward."

If Russia wants to restore some law and order to the Kiev government after 1000 of kakistocracy, why should ANYONE complain who isn't one of the kakists?

Blogger Dirk Manly July 28, 2018 6:19 AM  

@101

" I remember seeing a (declassified) NSA analysis of Tito's speech patterns/ accent that concluded that there was no way in hell that he was a native speaker of Serbo-Croatian; i.e. he was NOT Josip Broz. Who was he really, and where was he actually from? No one (publicly) knows, apparently."

https://www.nsa.gov/news-features/declassified-documents/cryptologic-spectrum/assets/files/is_yugoslav.pdf

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