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Tuesday, August 14, 2018

Conclusively disproven

Some see incidents like these as tragic. I tend to view them as Darwinian comedy:
They saw the world as a warm, welcoming place where strangers would commit random acts of kindness every day.

“You get a feeling of wanting to give back, not just to this person who has welcomed a stranger into their home, but to the wider world,” Mr Austin wrote on his blog. “You become someone who wants to welcome others into your home. You become a merchant in the gift economy. You’re led to believe that the world is a big, scary place. ‘People,’ the narrative goes, ‘are not to be trusted. People are bad. People are evil.’ I don’t buy it.”
The thing is, the world simply doesn't care what you believe.
They were travelling along the Pamir Highway, a Soviet-era road that stretches across 2000km near the border with Afghanistan and has spectacular views, when a carload of men who are believed to have recorded a video pledging allegiance to the Islamic State group spotted them. They sped towards the group of tourists, rammed them, jumped out and attacked the cyclists with knives. The horrendous slaying was captured on grainy footage from the attackers — who also took the lives of one Dutch and one Swiss national.
I really fail to see why ignoring human nature is considered any less stupid than ignoring gravity or physics.

Labels:

78 Comments:

Blogger Avalanche August 14, 2018 7:31 AM  

Interesting, if that's the right word, that a couple of the women were "injured but survived"...

Blogger Sherwood family August 14, 2018 7:33 AM  

I just left there in May. This is hugely disappointing because the average person in Tajikistan is simply not this way. These guys were hardcore militants and while there are certainly a cohort of these kinds of people around they are not representative of most people in the country.

Having said that, personal security is ALWAYS an individual responsibility. It doesn't matter if it is Tajikistan or NY or a cornfield in Iowa. The less you fit in with your surroundings the more likely you are to become a target. It's that simple.

Blogger johndoe03526 August 14, 2018 7:36 AM  

It brings to mind Kayla Mueller. The young American woman who was seized by Isis in Syria and ended her days as a sex slave for al-Baghdadi. There are parts of the world white people have no business being in.

Blogger JACIII August 14, 2018 7:41 AM  

Willfully moronic. You wander around places you have no business being and your number will come up, one way or another, sooner or later.

Attempting to impose your Kum-ba-ya outlook on the world = Darwin award.

Addendum: NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS AFTER MIDNIGHT

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 14, 2018 7:42 AM  

"This is hugely disappointing because the average person in Tajikistan is simply not this way."

That's extremely poor logic.

The average person there is sufficiently "this way" that a sufficient number of people there are fully this way. "Not all x are like that" is shit logic when enough of x are like that and the rest don't care to shut them down.

Blogger Sherwood family August 14, 2018 7:44 AM  

That same logic applies to any municipality in the U.S. Saying that there are bad actors in the place does not mean that everyone else there is half-way to being bad actors themselves. That's like saying everyone in Oklahoma City was half-way to being Timothy McVeigh because they didn't stop him. That's moronic.

Blogger JACIII August 14, 2018 7:44 AM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:"This is hugely disappointing because the average person in Tajikistan is simply not this way."

That's extremely poor logic.

The average person there is sufficiently "this way" that a sufficient number of people there are fully this way. "Not all x are like that" is shit logic when enough of x are like that and the rest don't care to shut them down.





This. x1000.

Blogger Ferdinand August 14, 2018 7:47 AM  

I don't find the incident tragic, because it was self inflicted. I find it tragic that naive hipsters will still not learn a lesson out of hundreds of similar cases.

Blogger Daniele Grech Pereira August 14, 2018 7:49 AM  

Press F for my sides.

Blogger Keyser Soze August 14, 2018 7:50 AM  

I dated an ethnic Russian woman who was born in Tajikistan. After the Soviet Union fell apart, ethnic Russians were no longer welcome in Tajikistan. They were not of the tribe. Her and her family had to leave and they were able to immigrate to the States. So all of this happy happy, buy the world a Coke is just a bunch of purposefully misguided crap. I know Miss Russia will never be an American, but what a great tumble in the hay.....

Blogger Sherwood family August 14, 2018 7:54 AM  

Most Russians got out of Tajikistan in the 90's because there was a full blown civil war going on there. But yeah, the Tajiks wanted to run their own place without the benefit of Russian overlords. Not that it worked. The Russians still have their largest overseas base there. 201st Motorized Rifle Division.

Anonymous Anonymous August 14, 2018 7:57 AM  

The virtue signaling in the first excerpt... Did it create interference on the radio? Is that how they were found? Also, Darwin Award for hippy-dippy Mr. Wokke. Who could have made that up?

Blogger Harambe August 14, 2018 8:08 AM  

People think that because white people are nice, everyone else is nice too. It took us 2000 years to become as nice as we are. You're not gonna make an entire race or nation of people "nice" in one or two generations. And besides, there's such a thing as being too "nice", and we've reached that point.

Blogger Zander Stander August 14, 2018 8:08 AM  

And the spirit of Amy Biehl is alive and well. Remember her? She gave her life in the fight against racism, according to Hillary. Slight problem, her killers were black supremacists.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 14, 2018 8:10 AM  

I bet a measurable portion of the females who followed their antics via the web got their rocks off when they heard the news.

In part I go with Sherwood and in part from what I gather about the third world is that you could send a naked NFL cheerleader thru these places and she will remain untouched if the local man of influence deems she is a welcomed guest, if not then she ends up in the ditch.

Also let me call out Jim Shockey Canadian nice guy hunting dude, he travels to all these places and spews the "peeps are all just wonderful" line like a true believer.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 14, 2018 8:11 AM  

"That same logic applies to any municipality in the U.S. Saying that there are bad actors in the place does not mean that everyone else there is half-way to being bad actors themselves. That's like saying everyone in Oklahoma City was half-way to being Timothy McVeigh because they didn't stop him. That's moronic."

While there are such things as unpredictable freaks of nature and unknowable values, for the most part -- even from a human perspective -- things follow predictably.

Simply put, if the thing happens repeatedly or with multiple actors, the thing happens because the people of the place are fit to produce sufficient numbers of actors for it to be expressed.

And yes, I absolutely can say that people who fail to stop bad actors -- regardless of the reason -- factor into the problem. Perhaps they were too weak, too innumerate, too lazy, or the act in question is just something that most of the people think about but few have the motivation/guts to attempt. It doesn't matter. The act was accomplished because the actors had sufficient sway to actualize it, and particularly when this happens repeatedly, can only occur when the people of that land are fit to produce these bad actors.

Your only possible argument is that the murderers/killers/combatants/madmen were not the descendants of the people of that land, and were instead foreigners.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey August 14, 2018 8:22 AM  

Austin had worked at the Department of Housing and Urban Development for seven years before he took off on his bike ride in July 2017.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6015277/Washington-couple-quit-jobs-travel-world-bicycles-killed-terror-attack.html

Just think of it as how Section 8 works -- only in reverse, and voluntary.

Blogger Mister Excitement August 14, 2018 8:30 AM  

Maybe an enterprising Alt-Righter can start a travel agency offering a Social Justice travel package along the Pamir Highway.

I can see the marketing now.

"Fight white racism and bring Social Justice to the oppressed people of Tajikistan! Sign up for the Pamir Highway tour today!"

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling August 14, 2018 8:33 AM  

The Anonymous Conservative wrote a good essay on this, Being Taught The American Myth Can Kill You:

There is an element of the threat-blindness of leftism here, obviously. But these people were also killed by their conditioning.

America is a safe place, and that makes us naturally feel safe. But America is also run by a massive conspiracy which fears the citizens, and which as a result goes to great lengths to condition the citizens to not believe in conspiracies....

That is conditioning, and it is laid on us for a reason. The elites don’t want you knowing how the world really works, because the world is run by a conspiracy. So they condition everyone to ridicule and out-group those with a healthy level of paranoia, both to punish them and warn others.

When the result meets the real world, it is embodied in these victims. In their mind, they were four people riding bicycles in a sea of billions, and nobody would even notice them....

Blogger wreckage August 14, 2018 8:34 AM  

Think of a moral bell curve. Think of one murderer in the tail. See how far out he is? And in the case of McVeigh it's one in a few million. Now travel back towards the center until you get twenty or thirty such people in a local population of maybe ten thousand.

That tells you how close "it's OK to murder people" is to the center of the local morality/behavioural bell-curve.

Of course they aren't all like that or the place would be a graveyard. There's a functional minimum of aggression aversion needed to function as a social group, and many of those places have been functioning for a very long time.

But there's a huge, huge gap between "not everybody thinks murdering strangers is OK" and "this is a safe and friendly place."

Blogger Zwiebel August 14, 2018 8:41 AM  

"That's like saying everyone in Oklahoma City was half-way to being Timothy McVeigh because they didn't stop him. That's moronic."

Yet, you know Timothy McVeigh's first and last name, in a city of thousands.

These attackers, on the other hand, do you know their names? No. And how did they know to look for these tourists on the highway? Are there always western tourists on the highway? Can you just run by there any day of the week and find a group of tourists cycling around? Or did they know there was a group of western tourists who'd left just half an hour ago, and if you go now, you'll catch them? Idk. Seems to me like they had a bit of a support network.

Also, never forget that others are not like us. They may be nice to your face, but then don't have more than a shrug when you're run over by a bus right in front of them.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd August 14, 2018 8:42 AM  

Sherwood family wrote:That same logic applies to any municipality in the U.S. Saying that there are bad actors in the place does not mean that everyone else there is half-way to being bad actors themselves. That's like saying everyone in Oklahoma City was half-way to being Timothy McVeigh because they didn't stop him. That's moronic.

Fish need an ocean. The 'stans provide the ocean for mohammedan sharks. A moderate mohammedan wants somebody else to kill you. A hardcore militant wants to be that somebody else.

McVeigh seems to have been either a government false flag, or another FBI entrapment effort gone spectacularly wrong. It's not on the Okies either way.

Blogger Jamie-R August 14, 2018 8:44 AM  

White Millennials are great examples sometimes.
"What do you mean foreign rats promote equality to us? It's something we should strive for!"
Docility is something they don't understand completely, but they have it in spades.

Blogger Desdichado August 14, 2018 8:52 AM  

Most people everywhere are just normal people, trying to get by, friendly to their neighbors, etc. The same was true of the Nazis. The same is true today in Harlem. Or Mogadishu. So what? The fact that most people don't really care to go to the effort to be belligerent usually just means that they're lazy and easy-going, not that it's a safe place to go. I don't know what the point you're trying to make is.

Blogger Sherwood family August 14, 2018 8:52 AM  

This took place in the Pamirs. Anybody on here know what the local religion is in the Pamirs? They're Ismailis. They don't do terrorism and haven't since the Crusades. If you screw with them in terms of their territory they will fight you but they don't have a beef like Sunnis do with everybody around. So we know that they were not local to the area. They were passing through from somewhere else. The terrain is the kind of place you can't just hang out in easily either. The mountains are just a little shy of the Himalayas in height and there is very little vegetation or animal life unless you are on a safari there for Marco Polo sheep. They may have crossed over from Afghanistan or they may have been coming from elsewhere but they aren't from those parts.

Blogger Sherwood family August 14, 2018 8:54 AM  

And there are ALWAYS tourists biking on the Pamir highway. I think it is nuts but not because of terrorist. More like because of weather, a terrible road, and insane drivers.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 14, 2018 8:55 AM  

"This took place in the Pamirs. Anybody on here know what the local religion is in the Pamirs? They're Ismailis. They don't do terrorism and haven't since the Crusades."

They're along the borders. Mixing occurs along borders. Even if it didn't at all somehow, the mohammedans were on that side of the border somehow, meaning that the people of the place permitted them to be there.

Blogger Johnny August 14, 2018 8:56 AM  

>>But there's a huge, huge gap between "not everybody thinks murdering strangers is OK" and "this is a safe and friendly place."

If I remember correctly, in a poll in the United States about a third of all the followers of Islam said that the use if violence to promote Islam was just okay. I would imagine it is a much larger number in these foreign countries. That is the core problem. A lack of condemnation by the majority.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 14, 2018 8:56 AM  

Go ahead, say something about 9/11 or a major terrorist attack here. We did indeed let them in, and as such are partially at fault.

Blogger Sherwood family August 14, 2018 9:00 AM  

The people did not permit them to be there anymore than you permit people to drive down the highway that goes past your town. Yes, you could go out and stop all traffic because you heard somewhere there might be a criminal who could be using that highway but that would be a) unnecessary b) a waste of time c) likely to cause an unpleasant outbreak of law enforcement.

This is even more so with the Pamiris. They do not get along with the central government due to the civil war. They want to be left alone and largely are because they are remote and not too much of a threat. But something like this happens and it becomes a mess for them. So...no...they didn't just "permit them to be there."

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 14, 2018 9:00 AM  

Sadiq Khan's comment to the effect of "that's part and parcel of living in a modern city" would be entirely correct if he had said "that's part and parcel of living in a modern city (with us)".

We let them in, and they let them in. They share a border with Afghanistan. Commensurately, they probably let even more of them in than we do, and people there are more used to things like this happening, so will not be as "put out" or inclined to do any particular thing about it.

Blogger Sherwood family August 14, 2018 9:03 AM  

Um...no they are not. You have more murders in the average city of the same size in the U.S. over a weekend than you do in the Pamirs. This doesn't happen there. You are trying to say that conditions on the ground there are like Iraq or Afghanistan. They are not. It is a very quiet, very remote, very peaceful place. They do worry about their southern neighbors but they can do very little about it except keep their eyes open.

Blogger Johnny August 14, 2018 9:03 AM  

"That same logic applies to any municipality in the U.S. Saying that there are bad actors in the place does not mean that everyone else there is half-way to being bad actors themselves. That's like saying everyone in Oklahoma City was half-way to being Timothy McVeigh because they didn't stop him. That's moronic."

I have this feeling that you know better and the argument is a rhetorical point. Thus I will state it modestly: I find myself wondering how aware you are that your argument is fundamentally dishonest.

To take your statement, turn it around, and make an equally moronic question, why didn't you try to stop Timothy McVeigh? After all, you had as much of an opportunity as the citizens of Oklahoma City.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 14, 2018 9:10 AM  

"The people did not permit them to be there anymore than you permit people to drive down the highway that goes past your town."

They were on that side of the border, were they not? What, is a border an invisible line that means nothing? Do they lack the strength to sufficiently police their borders and disallow these sorts? Do they lack the will? It doesn't matter, the outcome is the same.

"but that would be a) unnecessary b) a waste of time c) likely to cause an unpleasant outbreak of law enforcement."

Unnecessary? A waste of time? For whom? The people of the place because they don't care enough to prevent these murders? Zing. Unpleasant law enforcement? Unpleasant for who? From where does law come? Politics? From where does politics come? Society? From where does society come? Blood?

"This is even more so with the Pamiris. They do not get along with the central government due to the civil war. They want to be left alone and largely are because they are remote and not too much of a threat. But something like this happens and it becomes a mess for them. So...no...they didn't just "permit them to be there.""

"I live in the world as I permit it to exist. If it were not so, either the world would not be as it is, or I would not live."

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 14, 2018 9:15 AM  

"Um...no they are not. You have more murders in the average city of the same size in the U.S. over a weekend than you do in the Pamirs."

Cool, and it still happens because the people there are fit for it.

"This doesn't happen there."

It just did.

"You are trying to say that conditions on the ground there are like Iraq or Afghanistan. They are not."

It literally shares a border with Afghanistan.

"It is a very quiet, very remote, very peaceful place."

Except for when this happened.

"They do worry about their southern neighbors but they can do very little about it except keep their eyes open."

"They don't give enough of a flying f*** about it to do any more than that." This is the precise meaning of your words after eliminating the weaselliness.

Blogger pnq87 August 14, 2018 9:17 AM  

I remember a news item a while back about a white guy who was cycling across the U.S. and was crossing an indian reservation in either Arizona or New Mexico and got struck and killed by a vehicle driven by an indian guy who lived there. They were saying it was a DUI accident, but since it was a hit and run that was never proven. If I remember correctly the man who hit him was let off. Anyways, I will always suspect that this indian dude saw a faggoty looking palefale cycling across his land in spandex like a princess and took him out deliberately.


Hey white people. They don't like you.

Blogger Silent Cal August 14, 2018 9:21 AM  

Jesus said, "there is none good but God."

The prophet Jeremiah wrote this 2,600 years ago:

5 Thus says the Lord:

“Cursed is the man who trusts in man
And makes flesh his strength,
Whose heart departs from the Lord.
6 For he shall be like a shrub in the desert,
And shall not see when good comes,
But shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness,
In a salt land which is not inhabited.

7 “Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord,
And whose hope is the Lord.
8 For he shall be like a tree planted by the waters,
Which spreads out its roots by the river,
And will not fear when heat comes;
But its leaf will be green,
And will not be anxious in the year of drought,
Nor will cease from yielding fruit.

9 “The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?

Jeremiah 17:5-9

Humanism is crap. The innate goodness of the human being is crap. It is all just a form of self worship.

All men are in need of the salvation found in Christ's atoning work on the cross. Cause there ain't no good people.

Blogger L August 14, 2018 9:25 AM  

@36 I rode my bicycle across the US and Canada as a young college drop-out. Spent a few days crossing the Navajo res. Was near the exit as evening fell and a white couple in a truck stopped me and said to throw my bike in the back because I was going to be killed by drunk Indians. The res had prohibition and the Indians go off the res to get liquored up and then drive back home. Probably saved my life as I had seen some cars swerving all over the rode. PS Never wore spandex or any of that queer cycling clothing.

Blogger Sherwood family August 14, 2018 9:39 AM  

Azure, just to be clear, you are advocating for a standard of collective guilt. I don't believe that applies if you could not have known that something was going to take place in advance. As I pointed out, the people of Oklahoma City were not guilty for the crime that Timothy McVeigh committed among them because there was not any reasonable basis to believe they knew what he was doing.

If we are going to use collective guilt as a standard then you and I have a whole lot more blood on our hands than the people of the Pamirs.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 14, 2018 9:45 AM  

"Azure, just to be clear, you are advocating for a standard of collective guilt."

Yes.

" I don't believe that applies if you could not have known that something was going to take place in advance."

That's nice. How can you say that "it's not like Afghanistan"? Because you know the Afghanis are that way? How is it that you know that, and the people who literally border Afghanistan don't?

" As I pointed out, the people of Oklahoma City were not guilty for the crime that Timothy McVeigh committed among them because there was not any reasonable basis to believe they knew what he was doing."

They know perfectly well what the Afghanis do though.

"If we are going to use collective guilt as a standard then you and I have a whole lot more blood on our hands than the people of the Pamirs."

Trying to guilt me out of the truth? Won't work, stop trying. Yes, we suck too.

Blogger Mister Excitement August 14, 2018 9:46 AM  

Zwiebel wrote:"These attackers, on the other hand, do you know their names? No. And how did they know to look for these tourists on the highway? Are there always western tourists on the highway? Can you just run by there any day of the week and find a group of tourists cycling around? Or did they know there was a group of western tourists who'd left just half an hour ago, and if you go now, you'll catch them? Idk. Seems to me like they had a bit of a support network.

Also, never forget that others are not like us. They may be nice to your face, but then don't have more than a shrug when you're run over by a bus right in front of them.


You just described why Afghanistan has been such a problem. Or Vietnam for that matter.

Americans simply don't realize how collective and tribal most people in the world live.

Just look at Blacks in the United States not reporting crimes to the cops. "Snitches Get Stitches." They would rather tolerate Black criminals than deal with the white man's police and justice system.

Blogger pnq87 August 14, 2018 9:53 AM  

Since Timothy McVeigh was a hero defending American liberty by shedding the blood of tyrants and their families in retaliation for the murder of innocent children at Waco, your argument fails.

Blogger Johnny August 14, 2018 9:56 AM  

>>You just described why Afghanistan has been such a problem. Or Vietnam for that matter.

What torques me at times is that we still haven't got Vietnam figured out. We didn't "lose Vietnam" because it wasn't our to lose. For is it was fighting the expansion of Communism, for the Vietnamese it was about expelling the other ethnic groups from their territory.

Blogger Sherwood family August 14, 2018 9:57 AM  

Not guilting you out of anything. Just saying if you hold the people there responsible for murders that interlopers committed among them then you are equally culpable for the murders of the abortionists that undoubtedly live in your state. Or the crimes committed in crack houses in your town. Or the actions of sex offenders living in your neighborhood. If you want to take that on be my guest.

Anonymous Anonymous August 14, 2018 10:05 AM  

"... you are advocating for a standard of collective guilt."

No, it's a standard of individual stupidity. If you cross into Afghanistan on a bicycle, you are an idiot. Kumbaya gets you killed. Kipling could've saved you.

I don't want to hold the people of that region to any particular standard, I will leave that to their maker. By appearances, you've spent enough time there to have developed an idea of the place. You're idea is almost certainly wrong. The old China Hands had the same problem, their understanding of China probably peaked after three days and then got steadily worse.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd August 14, 2018 10:07 AM  

Sherwood family wrote:You have more murders in the average city of the same size in the U.S. over a weekend than you do in the Pamirs. This doesn't happen there.

The Pamirs aren't infested with Africans, so of course ``American'' murders don't happen there. They're infested with mohammedans, so it's this kind of thing that happens.

Blogger Sherwood family August 14, 2018 10:13 AM  

Well, that is like saying that West Virginia is infested with Scots Irish Presbyterians so naturally they have a total affinity with the IRA because Irish and Christian, right?

Blogger Scott August 14, 2018 10:14 AM  

Another episode of “science” worshippers ignoring elementary statistics in the name of all mighty “equality.” LOL, social justice comedy is best comedy.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 14, 2018 10:16 AM  

" If you want to take that on be my guest."

Culpability isn't 100 or zero. Yes, there is a certain amount of culpability that a society has for the actions of its worst actors. It is not as high as the actors themselves, but it is still nonzero.

Responsible? Certainly, in part. Just because you don't like the truth doesn't make it less true.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 14, 2018 10:18 AM  

"so naturally they have a total affinity with the IRA because Irish and Christian, right?"

Irish. You defeat your own arguments.

Total? You're deliberately being dishonest now. Just because something isn't 100% doesn't mean it's zero, and vice versa.

Blogger Sherwood family August 14, 2018 10:22 AM  

What are you talking about? I am not being dishonest at all. The Pamiris have a separate language and religion and ethnicity from Afghans. Scots Irish and Irish are not the same. Nor do they share a similar religion. The analogy is apt.

Anonymous Anonymous August 14, 2018 10:27 AM  

Sherwood family wrote:I just left there in May. This is hugely disappointing because the average person in Tajikistan is simply not this way. These guys were hardcore militants and while there are certainly a cohort of these kinds of people around they are not representative of most people in the country.

I don't doubt you know more about the region and people than anyone else commenting here. Yet everyone else seems to understand the folly of the cyclists. You're approaching Margaret Mead levels of incomprehension.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 14, 2018 10:28 AM  

"What are you talking about? I am not being dishonest at all. The Pamiris have a separate language and religion and ethnicity from Afghans. Scots Irish and Irish are not the same. Nor do they share a similar religion. The analogy is apt."

The analogy is dishonest because you are trying to claim that similarity or affinity or responsibility are all-or-nothing. They quite obviously aren't. Even our legal system understands this. The criminal gets a high punishment, the accessories possibly less so, people who obstructed an investigation less-so, and so on. Obviously the legal system has limited time to go after people for increasingly minor contributions to a crime, so they stop at some point. Doesn't mean everyone wasn't involved, just that one region of the machine squeaked far louder than the others. Everything in the world influences everything else.

A single drop raises the ocean. A single shrug-and-ignore from someone else is another box ticked in the chain of events permitting a bad actor to reach his ultimate destination.

Blogger Sherwood family August 14, 2018 10:34 AM  

Okay...I see what you are saying. Obviously it is not all or nothing. There are things people can do to improve situations. If that is the argument you are making I won't dispute it. I am just saying you can't easily point and say, "look, the Pamiris caused this." There may be things they could have done to make it less likely, that I am willing to grant. But the guilt as such falls on those who committed the crime.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 14, 2018 10:38 AM  

The majority of the guilt, yes.

Blogger Spud August 14, 2018 10:58 AM  

Stop trying to use Timothy McVeigh, who committed a crime over two decades ago that was universally condemned by his peers, to argue this specific instance as something out of the ordinary in that part of the world. How many people within a 200 mile radius would be okay with killing those tourists? If someone rode their bike along the Mexican border and are killed by the Cartel, would you say "Oh my! but Americans aren't like that!". Absolutely not. The United States may not be like that, but there are still bodies littering the border on both sides. Apples and Oranges.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 14, 2018 10:59 AM  

@Sherwood,
Even you said that the local's major objection these event is that it would get the police and government involved. Not that they didn't want the Americans killed, not that it would reflect badly on their tribe, but that a bunch of pushy government types would show up and make trouble.

Blogger Son of Blob August 14, 2018 11:01 AM  

"We don't have a lot of time on this Earth! We weren't meant to spend it this way! Human beings were not meant to sit in little cubicles staring at computer screens all day, filling out useless forms and listening to eight different bosses drone on about mission statements!"

- Peter Gibbons of office space.

Perhaps they took this movie a little bit too literally.

Blogger MrNiceguy August 14, 2018 11:05 AM  

The economy package allows them to experience the excitement and vibrancy of Chicago or Detroit.

Blogger Sherwood family August 14, 2018 11:16 AM  

Spud, it is out of the ordinary in Tajikistan. That's my point. This doesn't happen there. When was the last time a foreigner was murdered there? It happens in Afghanistan but the violence there has not crossed the border in this way. That is exactly my point.

They locals absolutely do not want Americans to get killed. The Pamiris do not hate Americans. They don't hate Westerners. Their spiritual leader, the Aga Khan lives in the West. There are not Sunnis. They are not even Twelver Shias like in Iran. They are a whole different animal.

Blogger flyingtiger August 14, 2018 11:22 AM  

I cannot believe that in today's age of terrorism that there are people this dumb. If you see lots of moslems get out!

Blogger dvdivx August 14, 2018 11:22 AM  

average person in Tajikistan is simply not this way.

No they aren't but most are passive supporters. A few might not like it but will do nothing out of fear but also why help foreigners. I only see whites and occasionally Japanese and Koreans acting this way. Everyone else can play spot the savage with success. The women were just gang raped. If it were just women then I'd say they were sex tourists that wanted it to happen like white women that go to Africa to be "missionaries" mostly in the missionary position.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd August 14, 2018 11:57 AM  

Sherwood family wrote:I am just saying you can't easily point and say, "look, the Pamiris caused this."

What have the Pamiris done to prevent it, before or after? Where are the Pamiri vigilantes, and the Pamiri candle light vigils, and the Pamiri keep-out-the-Afgans activists, and so on?

You make the the Pamiris sound like moderate mohammedans - they want some one else to do the murders for them.

Blogger Sherwood family August 14, 2018 12:16 PM  

There is no point in continuing to point out that things are not the way some of you are portraying them to be. You can believe what you want. It doesn't change the situation on the ground.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd August 14, 2018 1:48 PM  

Sherwood, have the Pamiris shown any sign of discomfort or embarrassment, other than the fear that official attention will be drawn to them? Any sign at all that they don't like what happened? Or are they just quietly happy that some jihadis did it for them, so they have an excuse not to?

Blogger Fenton Wood August 14, 2018 2:48 PM  

Listen to Sherwoood. There are in fact heterodox and non-militant sects of Islam. The tourists had no business being there and it wasn't the responsibility of the Pamiris to protect them.

Blogger SirHamster August 14, 2018 3:36 PM  

Sherwood family wrote:When was the last time a foreigner was murdered there? It happens in Afghanistan but the violence there has not crossed the border in this way.

The number of stupid foreigners trying to bike in their neighborhood is not a good proxy of the safety of the neighborhood for foreigners. Not until the sample size is increased, anyways.

And now that there will be fewer stupid cyclists going there, the lower casualty statistics in the future does not indicate improvement in neighborhood safety for foreigners.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd August 14, 2018 4:09 PM  

Fenris Wulf wrote:There are in fact heterodox and non-militant sects of Islam.

Mohammedans are either murderers, or apostate.

Fenris Wulf wrote:The tourists had no business being there and it wasn't the responsibility of the Pamiris to protect them.

Tourists aren't their responsibility? Can't argue with that. Decent folks would at least decry and disavow the act. I gather we're still waiting for that?

The Pamiris' placid response to the murders speaks to their attitude toward murdering outsiders. I haven't heard from Sherwood that they have any problem with murdering outsiders, other than the possibility of attracting official disfavor. Either they don't care, or they're happy that the Afganis did the deed for them. Either way, it is always right and proper to kill mohammedans.

Blogger Starboard August 14, 2018 4:33 PM  

Fenris Wulf wrote:The tourists had no business being there and it wasn't the responsibility of the Pamiris to protect them.

This is the lesson here.

I'm sure they looked at the google earth images and the panoramic views on someone's blog and just had to go. Eat Pray Love repeat. Ridiculous and obviously dangerous.

Blogger Unknown August 14, 2018 5:15 PM  

Some very odd implications there AA.

'A sufficiently murderous person...' is not even logical. You're either a murderer or you're not.

'A sufficiently murderous people' is morally contortionate enough to earn a place in the Team America: World Police lexicon.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 14, 2018 5:41 PM  

@Unknown.
Everybody is murderous to some degree. Everyone. IF you think you're not, you are lying to yourself. And yet, we do not murder. You might say that we are not as murderous as a mugger, a gangbanger or a Muslim.
Like every personality trait, the propensity to kill exists on a spectrum, and yes, some populations, as a group, are located further to the right on that curve than others.

Blogger Latigo3 August 14, 2018 5:53 PM  

Yeah, Christianity; who needs it? Idiots. Finding the good in humanity, that is the godless idiots problem in a nutshell.

Romans 3:10-12 tells it all: "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."

Blogger SirHamster August 14, 2018 6:06 PM  

Unknown wrote:'A sufficiently murderous person...' is not even logical. You're either a murderer or you're not.

Snidely Whiplash wrote:@Unknown.

Everybody is murderous to some degree. Everyone. IF you think you're not, you are lying to yourself. And yet, we do not murder.


Unknown doesn't know English and confuses murderous for murderer.

Definition of murderous
1 a : having the purpose or capability of murder

Desire, ability, and action are different things, and to blame someone using words precisely of illogicality is illogical.

Blogger Unknown August 15, 2018 4:20 AM  

Ok, I'll take the hamsterbate.

Purpose I can appreciate, but capability? How do you know if you have the capability of murder if you've never committed it? Killing is harder than it feels. Clowns trying to be clever kill me with laughter, does that mean they're funny?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 15, 2018 6:49 AM  

Murderousness is a function of desirousness and/or capacity to commit murder.

Certainly some people are bad at judging one or the other, but it is certainly possible (and for some easy) to gauge both. An item, for instance, can indeed be murderous (though never a murderer) through its perceived capacity (and presumably the intent of its creator) for the action.

You can also be extremely murderous without actually having killed anyone. That would just mean you have either very strong self-control or have had no opportunities quite good enough.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 15, 2018 6:50 AM  

*an item* can indeed be murderous.

Blogger SirHamster August 15, 2018 2:36 PM  

Unknown wrote:Purpose I can appreciate, but capability?

You are bad at English. Do you not understand what "or" means? You have no business telling anyone they are not logical when you don't even understand how to use the dictionary to look up the definitions of words.


How do you know if you have the capability of murder if you've never committed it? Killing is harder than it feels. Clowns trying to be clever kill me with laughter, does that mean they're funny?

If you're a human being, you're an apex predator and have the capability of murder. If you can pick up a 5 pound weight, if you have money in your pocket, if you can drive a car, you have everything you need.


"Killing is harder than it feels" - this is a revealingly stupid and dishonest statement in the context of this discussion.

Either the speaker is speaking from experience, meaning he fully knows the difference between wanting to kill, having the ability to kill, and having killed; which makes the earlier equivocation between murderer and murderous intentional. Or he is not speaking from experience, but is willing to speak authoritatively on something he does not know, pretending to authority.

Both options are fully dishonest.

Blogger Unknown August 15, 2018 4:04 PM  

Hamster will hamster. Serves me right for taking the bait.

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