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Tuesday, August 07, 2018

Darkstream: Scott Adams and the Power of Q




From the transcript of the Darkstream.

Scott Adams was talking about how the whole Q thing was bad for MAGA. Now that sounds very cryptic, but what he's talking about is how he is concerned, like a lot of middle-of-the-road folks and moderates, he is concerned that talking about conspiracy theory is going to turn off, confuse, and disenchant people who might otherwise be inclined to support making America great again. Now this is the conventional moderate talk, all right, moderates always think that the secret to success is appealing to the moderates. You know, they always always do this. Back when Ronald Reagan was a candidate, before he won the nomination, we heard the same sort of reasoning, if you're going to win you need to move to the center. Okay that is the conventional wisdom, and again and again and again,  political history proves that to be wrong.

Chasing the moderates is actually the way to ensure that you, number one,  will probably lose, and, number two, if you do win you're not going to be able to do anything. Moderates above all fear change, all moderates want is to stick with the status quo, and so you know running to the center, it's exactly what the elder George Bush did and that was part of why he managed to lose. So when you look at any advice about politics that worries excessively about marketing, about brand,  about turning people off and all that sort of thing, you need to look at it with this very skeptical eye, because most of the time it is not coming from a rational point of political analysis,  it's not coming from an observation and application of political history,  it's simply coming from the moderate's distaste for anything that normal people might look at with a skeptical eye.

Now, the reality is people follow strength. People follow truth as long as it is fearlessly and forcefully spoken. We see this all around the world and we've seen this all through history. Those who stand up and speak the truth tend to meet with very positive reactions because people have a tendency to recognize the truth when they hear it.

If you think about it, what has Q accomplished? What is the primary consequence of Q, has it resulted in more or less confidence in the system? Has it caused people to embrace or reject the FBI, the CIA. and the professional Deep State. Has it appealed to the mainstream media or has it frightened the mainstream media? Okay, those are the questions that are relevant. Who Q happens to be and whether everything that Q says is 100 percent accurate or not, you know, these things are not even relevant points, they're not even relevant questions.

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98 Comments:

Blogger Mark Stoval August 07, 2018 5:21 AM  

I think that Donald Trump could stop Q anytime he wanted to do so; or at least ruin Q's effectiveness. But President Trump looks like he thinks Q is a good thing.

Now, I have to ask myself, has The Donald's track record on fighting the swamp been good or bad? I vote good, so I will go with Trump and say that Q is helping.

Blogger SciVo August 07, 2018 5:40 AM  

After listening to the Darkstream the other night, I've decided to look at Q as a Kek analogue. Normals will either not know about it or not care, while the base will have fun with it. Q could literally just be some päntsdrunk Finn having a lark with a LARP, and even come out and prove it, and it wouldn't matter; there would still be perverted and subversive insiders, and patriotic outsiders that want them gone.

Blogger #6277 Hammer August 07, 2018 5:59 AM  

The MSM came up with Fake News and it got turned back on them. Next up - Conspiracy News.

Blogger Northwest Watching Thing August 07, 2018 6:14 AM  

When an army doesn't have a clear enemy to fight, and too much free time on their hands they tend to fight amongst themselves in the camp. It's bad for morale.
The veteran autists of the 2016 meme war will find a worthy target every now and again, but Q gives them something useful to do day to day. That in itself makes Q a positive force.

Blogger Stilicho August 07, 2018 6:25 AM  

@2 well, that might explain Markku's long absence...

Blogger Duke Norfolk August 07, 2018 6:40 AM  

Vox hit the nail on the head with the "why" of people not wanting to publicly advocate for Q-following or believing.

They simply don't want to be wrong. They don't want to suffer the social penalty if it turns out to be B.S. Their egos are in the way.

The huge irony is that these same people are the ones who accuse Vox of being egotistical (largely, I'm betting). Surprise, surprise.

Blogger Sherwood family August 07, 2018 6:50 AM  

The weaponized autists of the chans are truly one of the most formidable things I have ever seen. That Q has them chopping away at the foundations of the Deep State is useful even if Q ultimately turns out to be bogus.

Even if Q is not real (and I don't think anyone outside of a very small circle can say for sure at this point), the fact that the chans are busy searching for in haystacks and digging around in trash cans means that they are eventually going to find something ugly.

And that should put the fear of God into any and all swamp creatures. The Deep State has been up to its elbows in filth. The chans are busy connecting dots and making a coherent picture out of some of the things they Deep State would like to hide been.

It is an army of termites. No single termite brings down the house but together they all do.

Blogger Sherwood family August 07, 2018 6:51 AM  

Should read "needles in haystacks".

Blogger Howard Stone August 07, 2018 6:56 AM  

Q is most likely a four hundred pound man with a laptop living in his mom’s basement.

Blogger VD August 07, 2018 6:58 AM  

Q is most likely a four hundred pound man with a laptop living in his mom’s basement.

And yet he is observably more effective than hundreds of millions of dollars being spent by rich Republicans on expensive political consultants and advertisements.

Blogger Stilicho August 07, 2018 6:59 AM  

@ sherwood: exactly, that's why the swamp is now trying to discredit Q - so they can discredit anything the chans reveal by association. Just a variation on the genetic fallacy. Even if Q is a leftist/deep state psyop, it isn't turning out as planned. The leftists tasked with monitoring and subverting the chans are getting nervous.

Blogger Rick August 07, 2018 7:12 AM  

It stands to reason that one guy (Q) or a handful of them would be no match against thousands or even hundreds of autists. Instead, the autists are kept engaged for many months. The only way a brain power imbalance like this could be sustained, even for a short while, is if Q has access to the plan which is the truth.

How long did Shia LaBeouf last? ...and the autist were just newborns then.

Blogger Phillip George August 07, 2018 7:14 AM  

Vox,

start a Comic series about an affable yet bombastic yet mild mannered billionaire who gets recruited to run for President by deeply patriotic military intelligence insiders who know about the establishment corruption. This billionaire could appear mainly normal by day but then put on a Q mask by night and secretly fight crime, corruption, people smuggling, pedophiles, international bankers, witches and worlocks by night..

It might read like a comic this week

Ten years from now it will simply be undergrad history.

Blogger Gettimothy August 07, 2018 7:19 AM  

In a Tale of Two Cities, Jaques was a powerful, unifying force. At the very least, Q is as effective as Jaques.

Blogger Phillip George August 07, 2018 7:23 AM  

but the smartest man on the planet can run the world from a free accommodation basement, using a $100 worth of second hand computers..

that is exactly the butterfly effect. Create storm with mere wave of the hand...

All it requires is to know which hand to wave, where and when.... the meme is mightier than all of us.

Blogger Rick August 07, 2018 7:24 AM  

The recent coordinated mass hysteria reaction from the MSM did it for me. And the gamma tone of it — also universal.
They don’t think Q is a LARP.

Blogger Lazarus August 07, 2018 7:41 AM  

How long did Shia LaBeouf last?

I am convinced that the LaBeouf flag incident was the thing that brought the autist's talents to the attention of the Q.

Blogger Lazarus August 07, 2018 7:46 AM  

Now, the reality is people follow strength. People follow truth as long as it is fearlessly and forcefully spoken. We see this all around the world and we've seen this all through history.

"When people see a strong horse and a weak horse, they will naturally want to side with the strong horse.
- Bin Laden

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums August 07, 2018 7:47 AM  

I think Scott has an ulterior motive for not "getting" Q. I'm suspicious of him because not chasing the moderates and always catering to your loyal small fanbase is a principle that I learned from Scott Adams himself. He has a periscope on this exact topic. He credits his success not to his appeal to a large number of people, but to how loyal the extremists (so to speak) are/were to him.

He also talked about the pacing and leading tactic ad nauseam. So if I take these two in account, I think he fancies himself in the leading phase of his master plan, whatever it may be. Him saying that we should cater to the extremists was pacing, him going against this whole Q thing is leading. At least trying to lead.

And to what place he wants to lead the hoi polloi I don't know. It's too similar to what Jordan Peterson did for comfort, though. First they cater to the alt-right-leaning folk, then when they become a significant enough figure they attack the alt-right directly by name.

Blogger Avalanche August 07, 2018 7:50 AM  

Don't ever forget, y'all: Scott Adams is a (self-described!) way-far leftie! He is also surprisingly UNeducated about lots of plain-old science and history things! I sometimes listen to him when a topic seems like he might be interesting about it and his persuasion stuff was interesting. (I'm not deep enough into hypnosis and manipulation to judge well enough.) But I'm getting really tired of both his (pretty deep) mistakes and his "play nice again, you guys" crap.

He is really pushing (often, a lot): "Okay you on the Right -- you WON. Now be nice, now stop pushing back, now stop being 'mean' to the lefties." (Uh, hell no!)

His positions are sometimes not well thought out as to their effects (esp. on immigration and assimilation); sometimes completely untenable (like, if we play nice, 'suddenly' after 70 years of vicious destruction, the left will somehow become patriotic and clear-eyed), and sometimes just flat-out wrong (well, not quite wrong, but so deeply UNeducated and missing huge parts of a topic that he draws completely wrong conclusions -- e.g., climate "change").

(As I find him more and more frustrating -- and find myself barking back at his gaps and mistakes -- I also find I'm listening to him less and less. He may be amazingly smart in persuasion (and I actually like his business books) but -- as with so many other smart-in-their-field folks -- he is now holding forth on stuff he really deeply truly does not know or understand -- AS IF he does!)

Blogger Shimshon August 07, 2018 7:57 AM  

@17 I described the LaBeouf flag incident to a friend as an example of the collective brainpower of the autists. It is one of the finest examples of investigative prowess I think I have ever beheld. I too would not doubt that Q noticed too.

There are many signs of Q's authenticity. Besides forshadowing more and more events, Q has known from the start exactly which breadcrumbs to drop to unleash the autists' full potential. PizzaGate was always real, but sort of petered out because the emails only led so far. Q gave the hints that expanded its scope considerably, by pointing to publicly available information that was not recognized prior, sometimes going years back.

Blogger Peaceful Poster August 07, 2018 7:58 AM  

"The reality is people follow strength. People follow truth as long as it is fearlessly and forcefully spoken."

This is probably the most succinct explanation for the success of the GE that I've ever read.

Blogger Kieran Ricci August 07, 2018 8:02 AM  

"Chasing the moderates is actually the way to ensure that you, number one, will probably lose, and, number two, if you do win you're not going to be able to do anything."

Does the same rule apply to the left? For example, would it be more effective for Democrats to move towards socialism in the era of Trump?

Blogger Robert Divinity August 07, 2018 8:05 AM  

The MSM came up with Fake News and it got turned back on them. Next up - Conspiracy News.

The Fake News movement was how the Establishment intended to normalize absolute censorship. It was to be the pretext to take down "Russian propaganda." "Fake News" then would target "hate speech," and eventually anything the Deep State found inconvenient. The state propaganda organs were to be the vanguard. Of course, they inadvertently have been destroyed. The most important aspect is normies, and this includes the president, ran with the term and turned it on the actual conveyors of transparently phony state propaganda. Normies took the initiative with that one, which is remarkable in and of itself. The propaganda organs never again will wield great power. When the Deep State decides to just cut to the chase and impose an overt police state, normies won't listen to their mass communications lies. Whether people resist will be a personal decision and not one manipulated by blow-dried cretins...

Now the normies notice how much the Deep State is terrified by Q. If Q is exposed as a total fraud will not matter. If the Chans don't produce anything doesn't matter. People already know the corrupt junta that oppresses them, and their shock troops in Antifa and Anon, sweated bullets as attention was turned toward, among other things, the IC/DOJ's use of pedophilia to blackmail powerful people.


Blogger Riejun August 07, 2018 8:10 AM  

POTUS must be aware of the “Q” phenomenon. Q supporters are all over his rallies, Q is in the press, and I am sure, at the least, he’s been briefed on Q. If nothing else, he’s had to ask, “what’s all this Q stuff at my rallies?” POTUS knows about Q, whatever Q really is. POTUS could debunk or verify Q with a single tweet, for whatever reason, he hasn’t done so in an obvious manner. IMO, POTUS thinks Q is useful. That’s all I need to know. I support POTUS and MAGA, if that means I NEED to support Q, then so be it. Supposed MAGA supporters undercutting Q are undercutting POTUS/MAGA. To quote Q, “think logically”. Why hasn’t POTUS debunked Q? Do you actually think the savviest and probably smartest President we’ve had doesn’t know about Q? Do you think his staff hasn’t briefed him on Q? POTUS knows and at least supports/is allowing Q to continue because POTUS finds it useful to him. That’s all we need to know.

Why hasn’t the Left debunked Q? It’d be a great morale attack against a lot of MAGA supporters. The Left is afraid of Q.

Support MAGA and stop being gammas. This is war and about winning, don’t undercut the leader. Follow the leader and his moves. If nothing else, Q sows fear in the Left and makes them pause for just a moment.

Blogger Rick August 07, 2018 8:11 AM  

This is difficult to describe, but Q also has the proper patience, prudence, and sober emotion of a professional (real) person involved in real life operations.
There’s drama, but not fiction-like drama.
A good example may be how and when he says “attacks will intensify.”
He was right about that, btw. But it was also delivered as a sober statement of fact. Which was for our benefit.
It would be too easy to have delivered that as “role play” ... even accidentally.

Blogger dienw August 07, 2018 8:16 AM  

Q is most likely a four hundred pound man with a laptop living in his mom’s basement.

Nero Wolfe jr.?

Blogger Sherwood family August 07, 2018 8:18 AM  

Yeah, the Shia LaBeouf thing was both hilarious and awe inspiring. The raw manic/OCD ferocity of the sperglords of the chans is like nothing I have ever seen before.

Blogger Uncle John's Band August 07, 2018 8:22 AM  

This is just a general impression - I'm not a close follower of Q and pretty much the opposite of an autist (precision is counter-intuitive) - but Q does appear to have shifted since it first appeared. Its origins are far less important that the fact that the Trump circle has recognized its value and through tacit approval is subtly leveraging it. Yes, Trump (or Don Jr., Pence, etc.) could end it with a tweet. Instead, it is clear that he teases acknowledgment, even if you can't accept the various proofs that have been offered for his direct coordination. It is as obvious to him as it should be to anyone that the consciousness-raising value of what it has become is invaluable, regardless of original intent.

The media coordination is consistent with other signs - search for Qanon posts or Neon Revolt on google and duckduckgo - indicating that the globalists have reached the same conclusion. If the GE and the Cabal are reacting as if Q is effective in the culture war, focusing time and energy on "debunking" has more than a whiff of secret kingship.

@16. Rick

The media assault is a fine example of dialect-free "argumentation". No one has done the sort of long-form investigative dig that journalists used to hold up as the summa of their art, for obvious reasons. It's all strings of cliches about folkloric white trash racists and incels. You're told to reject it, but the argument is an appeal to... snark?

Q internet traffic looks like science fiction. Watching the fake news flail impotently in the face of a historical shift is a reminder why good rhetoric is truthful.

Blogger Phillip George August 07, 2018 8:25 AM  

"Anonymous has declared war on QAnon" unquote

please insert "Anonymous" into kill box: [ ]

"Anonymous" are deservedly fucked. Pick a side.

Blogger Uncle John's Band August 07, 2018 8:26 AM  

@19. Wuzzums Fuzzums

That's an interesting take. It is plausible. There is a limit to how the value of "leadership" that is coy about human biodiversity and the necessity of nationalism.

Blogger Avalanche August 07, 2018 8:27 AM  

@6 "Vox hit the nail on the head with the "why" of people not wanting to publicly advocate for Q-following or believing.
They simply don't want to be wrong."

I'm reminded by this of my staunch defense of Trump to doubting friends back when he was running. I GREW UP with men like him (on Long Island -- like he did -- albeit, without his eventual $$$$). I (largely) understand men who grew up like him and what would 'move' him to act, and to run, and to try to save the country...

Same here, I've 'thrown in' with Q because IF Trump has not crushed him with a single sentence, then he must be serving Trump. (Same with A.G. Sessions -- as FURIOUS as I get with his seeming torpor and inaction -- IF he were not doing exactly what Trump WANTS him to do (and taking 'public sh|t' for it occasionally from Trump), then Trump would have fired him a year ago.)

Trump would (almost surely) NOT have allowed what appears to be a complete c.f. to continue, harming him, harming his country!

Blogger Uncle John's Band August 07, 2018 8:33 AM  

30. Phillip George

"Anonymous has declared war on QAnon"

Let me guess, there will be a video any day now showing Q in a cannibalistic ritual.

Anonymous is a much better candidate for globalist LARPer, with their Pedowood iconography and lack of accomplishments. Their activities around the Wikileaks disclosures during the election looked like an attempt to discredit the salacious claims coming out. Nice to have confirmation.

Blogger tuberman August 07, 2018 8:33 AM  

"Q is most likely a four hundred pound man with a laptop living in his mom’s basement."

Projection??

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 07, 2018 8:35 AM  

Q if real is probably a NSA deal, that database is a valuable asset, HIllary's thugs were using it for opposition research till Rogers banned their use of it. If that database is as expansive as hinted at then all the conspirators of all the deep state and its funders are dead to rights exposed as needed. My theory could probably be tested, next time a Hollywood/NYC/DC creeps spouts off just ask about that person's electronic communications that were intercepted in total by the NSA, and guage their reactions.

Blogger marknivenczy August 07, 2018 8:39 AM  

@23 Kieran Ricci. You said:

""Chasing the moderates is actually the way to ensure that you, number one, will probably lose, and, number two, if you do win you're not going to be able to do anything."

Does the same rule apply to the left? For example, would it be more effective for Democrats to move towards socialism in the era of Trump?"

_______________________

You have made a logic error. Warning against "Chasing the moderates" (the center) does not imply that the opposite ("moving" further left or right) is suggested. On the contrary, it's clear Vox suggests the better path is to stick with objective truth and reason and be brave enough to let the chips fall where they will:

"People follow truth as long as it is fearlessly and forcefully spoken. We see this all around the world and we've seen this all through history. Those who stand up and speak the truth tend to meet with very positive reactions because people have a tendency to recognize the truth when they hear it."

Blogger Jeff aka Orville August 07, 2018 8:41 AM  

What's interesting to me is the rightist Trump loving Twitteratti who are now proclaiming Q to be a larp. People like Jack Posobiac and some others. It may well be simple fear of tainting their online presence if Q were to be a larp. So right when we need to be tightening the focus leading into the mid-terms, they all of a sudden don't want to talk Q, or in Posobiac's case claim they can out Q as a fraud.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 07, 2018 8:41 AM  

In the Darkstream "morale" was mentioned, morale leads to fighting on the moral level of conflict. Now look at the gas lighting going on and literally billions of dollars spent on this.

Second Heartiste has on his blog the Postrel all college educated white women love the crazy tweet w/chart, that is IMO gaslighting and shows the effects of gaslighting.

From personal family experience you cannot out "explain" the establishment's gaslighting propaganda you have to DISCREDIT & DISQUALIFY the source of the gaslight.

Blogger tuberman August 07, 2018 8:46 AM  

Nope, the "moderates" are often gamma males, but not complete soy boys, and women who are not avowed 3rd wave feminists, and they all shift with the herd.

What's needed is to bring in the guys, and occasional gals with backbone, then it builds from there.

Blogger Rick August 07, 2018 8:49 AM  

Prediction about Scott Adams:

He will be convinced Q is real at the proper time. And that will bring a lot of normies with him. Many more than if he simply said he doesn’t know either way about Q.
This “worked” for both Scott and Trump during the campaign.

Or... Trump asked him to get the Q followers to slow down. Moving too fast. Just, watch the show (for now).

Blogger tuberman August 07, 2018 8:50 AM  

Yes, the left leaning further left, is obviously leaning deeper into proven unbalanced, and insane inverted reality. The Right leans into Truth, even with their rhetoric.

Blogger tuberman August 07, 2018 8:56 AM  

37. Jeff aka Orville

I.DON'T.CARE. Nor do millions of others.

Blogger Jeff aka Orville August 07, 2018 8:59 AM  

@42 I don't care either, but I still find it interesting particularly in light of Q warning against just such a thing. Make me wonder if the derp state was able to leverage some stuff to flip some of those people.

Blogger Mocheirge August 07, 2018 9:00 AM  

Scott Adams is a good post-game analyst. He's terrible at play-by-play commentary. As someone above said, at the right time he'll become convinced and explain why Q worked.

Blogger tuberman August 07, 2018 9:01 AM  

There have been over 100 Q proofs, not that Q is telling the Truth all the time, as "Disinformation is necessary," posted in early November 2017. The proofs are to show connections between the God Emperor and Q, and that they are working hand-in-hand. The audience is now huge world wide, and this war is a stealth world war.

Blogger Crush Limbraw August 07, 2018 9:08 AM  

Maybe OT - and off the wall - but we discovered Q-Tonic a year ago - best ever - but I can't find a Q-Tonic tee shirt. Might start a rumor at the next Trump rally?

Blogger tuberman August 07, 2018 9:17 AM  

43. Jeff aka Orville

Yes, all kinds of things are possible. Some could be role players, others just do not want to go all-in for anything that they did not start, some are pay-triots, some are shills from the start. Some would like to be powers behind the throne, and Q threatens their "king-maker-breaker powers.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd August 07, 2018 9:17 AM  

Now this is the conventional moderate talk, all right, moderates always think that the secret to success is appealing to the moderates.

In 2008 I predicted that McCain would lose because he made it plain that the hated the Republican base. Even Palin couldn't save him. Who ever got elected without an immoderate base?

If you want to preserve your political capital, you have to use it up. If you do nothing, your political capital evaporates.

Is Q real? What would real look like? What is real here? How inside does an insider have to be? Q has been really effective for MAGA. That's real enough, I think. A Deep State counter-op, a counter-Deep State op, a fat kid in mommy's basement, whatever - Q has the base energised, the normies asking questions, and the enemy attacking him. If Q is a LARP, what could a ``real'' Q have done better?

What would it take to prove Q is real? How would providing that proof make Q more effective?

Blogger Kieran Ricci August 07, 2018 9:24 AM  

@36 markninvenczy. You wrote: "

"You have made a logic error. Warning against "Chasing the moderates" (the center) does not imply that the opposite ("moving" further left or right) is suggested. On the contrary, it's clear Vox suggests the better path is to stick with objective truth and reason and be brave enough to let the chips fall where they will:

"People follow truth as long as it is fearlessly and forcefully spoken. We see this all around the world and we've seen this all through history. Those who stand up and speak the truth tend to meet with very positive reactions because people have a tendency to recognize the truth when they hear it."

You're right regarding my logic error.

My question came about because of the Bernie Sanders effect in 2016. He moved towards leftist "principles" and garnered much more energy than Hillary. In fact, if he were nominated, it likely would have been a closer race, meaning, in effect the rule could go both ways. (left and right)

One more caveat. I think this time around, if Bernie were to run, the awakened masses would see Bernie as deep state because he's so weak and easily manipulated, that he would in effect be another Hillary.

So you and Vox and right. Long term, truth is a sustainable position of strength and will prevail.

Blogger tuberman August 07, 2018 9:26 AM  

"What would it take to prove Q is real? How would providing that proof make Q more effective?"

THE QUESTION, PUT DIRECTLY TO PDJT, BY THE MSM. They do not want to go there....so far. Why?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd August 07, 2018 9:28 AM  

Kieran Ricci wrote:"Chasing the moderates is actually the way to ensure that you, number one, will probably lose, and, number two, if you do win you're not going to be able to do anything."

Does the same rule apply to the left? For example, would it be more effective for Democrats to move towards socialism in the era of Trump?


It is apparent that many on the Left believe that they need to go full Socialist now. I think that it is energising their base. The timing of the Venezuelan collapse is unfortunate for them; it's turning off a lot of normies who might have nibbled the bait.

Doubling down on lies doesn't work nearly as well as doubling down on truth.

We all tend to project; it's not just SJWs who do it. When decent people project, we assume others are decent, and eventually we get burned as a result. Decent folks' tendency to project gets some negative feedback, so we learn not to do it quite so carelessly. SJWs project their own evil, and when they're wrong, it doesn't provide the painful negative feedback that would get them to stop. SJWs always project.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd August 07, 2018 9:33 AM  

tuberman wrote:"What would it take to prove Q is real? How would providing that proof make Q more effective?"

THE QUESTION, PUT DIRECTLY TO PDJT, BY THE MSM. They do not want to go there....so far. Why?


The MSM seems to think that would make Q more effective, because they aren't asking that question.

Blogger James Dixon August 07, 2018 9:42 AM  

> But President Trump looks like he thinks Q is a good thing.

In fact, he's gone out of his way to take actions that seem to verify him. Whether Q is the real deal or not, he's doing what Trump wants done.

> They simply don't want to be wrong. They don't want to suffer the social penalty if it turns out to be B.S. Their egos are in the way.

A lot more people need to learn to embrace the power of "I don't know" and accept that it's the natural order of things.

> That Q has them chopping away at the foundations of the Deep State is useful even if Q ultimately turns out to be bogus.

Which may be exactly why Trump is allowing it to happen.

> I think Scott has an ulterior motive for not "getting" Q.

As I said in a previous thread, I don't think Adams has ever had any real contact with the media or government elites. If he had his opinion of Q might change dramatically. My contact has all been second hand, but even at that I've seen enough to believe the things Vox says about them.

> For example, would it be more effective for Democrats to move towards socialism in the era of Trump?

Effective at getting elected? Yes. Effective at running the country? No. See Bernie Sanders for the details. Socialism has no basis in truth or human nature. It's a self defeating system.

Blogger Zwiebel August 07, 2018 9:42 AM  

I hope Q is legit, bit whether or not - his story is gripping. Could make an awesome trilogy by a gifted writer.

On another note - why are people so averse to conspiracy theories? We're all part of them every now and then. "That's against the rules, sorry." - "Can't you do something about that?" - "Well, let me see..."

Blogger Dave W. August 07, 2018 9:59 AM  

On the subject of Q:

http://thehill.com/policy/technology/400526-anonymous-vows-to-take-down-expose-qanon

"Anonymous has been adamantly opposed to Trump since he announced his candidacy in 2015. The group declared "cyber war" on Trump in March 2016, directing its followers to take down the then-candidate's websites."

Looks like Anonymous picked their side, and they picked poorly.

Blogger Damelon Brinn August 07, 2018 10:03 AM  

It is apparent that many on the Left believe that they need to go full Socialist now.

I think they've started to see the pendulum slowing and starting to head the other way. Heck, most of them are seeing the pendulum at all for the first time, instead of the one-way arrow of "progress" toward a utopian leftist future that they were taught in school. Trump's election was the biggest sign, but there have been others: the growth of homeschooling, increased attendance and birth rates at traditional churches, Gen Z being resistant to some PC rules, etc. They're starting to realize that all their victories since the 1960s could be undone just as fast (probably faster), and that scares the heck out of them because they've invested so much of their identity in it. So it's like they're trying to give the pendulum a big shove, hoping to break it off so it can't swing back. That's just not how it works.

Blogger Forge the Sky August 07, 2018 10:11 AM  

Well, to add some data to the topic: after his anti-Q video Scott Adams tweeted this cryptic Q-style tweet:

https://twitter.com/ScottAdamsSays/status/1026344195236102144
"JP KS SA find pattern"

And later added a few hints, promising that there was actually an important, true hidden message.

I'm not really sure what he's up to, but he certainly is playing at something more than 'Q sucks.'

The initials stand for Jack Posobiec, Kurt Schlichter, and Scott Adams. My theory, which I hold merely for personal amusement, is that they collectively are Q and are disavowing him to set people off the trail, and also to add legitimacy to the move when they finally end up being 'convinced.'

Well, it'd be a good movie anyway.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums August 07, 2018 10:20 AM  

Dave W. wrote:Looks like Anonymous picked their side, and they picked poorly.

Because we all know news sites don't lie, do extensive research, understand whomst 4chan is, and anyone calling themselves Anonymous are Anonymous?

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelpia August 07, 2018 10:23 AM  

You know what would really be something?

If Q was actually Admiral Mike Rogers. It makes sense.

Blogger DonReynolds August 07, 2018 10:24 AM  

"Those who stand up and speak the truth tend to meet with very positive reactions because people have a tendency to recognize the truth when they hear it."

The truth is not the issue. Reciting the multiplication tables is the truth. People need to hear something relevant to their problems and a credible solution. People are moved to act by necessity. Peasants understand necessity, even if they have not studied economics or politics or history or sociology. They know what is relevant and necessary, and they are willing to act on that, even if it means acting alone....which they had rather not do.

In 1776, there was a complex combination of factors that enabled ordinary (and extraordinary) citizens to resist the only government (and society) they had ever known. Some of them were motivated by the need to escape the trap of debt. They were promised that their debts owed to British creditors would be wiped out if the Revolution was successful. They had no idea how this might work but they did not see any other way out of onerous debt, so they supported the patriot cause. To them it was a practical necessity.

Donald Trump did not win the moderate vote. Hillary Clinton threw it to him with both hands. Trump did not make a serious effort to court the moderate vote because he did not need to. Clinton was throwing rocks at them the whole time.

Yes, there are many people who are suspicious of conspiracy theories. There is one that has been around for many years that Obama was not born in Hawaii. There is another one that says Donald Trump was elected president ONLY by Russian support. Both conspiracy theories originated with Hillary Clinton and were picked up by her lapdog media.

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelpia August 07, 2018 10:34 AM  

Zwiebel wrote:

On another note - why are people so averse to conspiracy theories? We're all part of them every now and then. "That's against the rules, sorry." - "Can't you do something about that?" - "Well, let me see..."


I think true conspiracies -- people getting together in a conference room and plotting some complex nefarious scheme with multiple moving parts and then swearing never to tell anyone -- is the stuff of James Bond movies.

What happens in the real world is a set of discrete actors who share some common beliefs -- e.g., Turmp is evil, globalism is great -- and then act to advance that cause, both publicly and privately.

When you look at the entirety of such actions it LOOKS like a conspiracy, because those actors network with each other.

I am sure, for example, that Tom Steyer has talked to George Soros, and they have discussed things to do and how to spend money. Are they "conspiring?"

Only in a very loose sense.

Think Strozk and Page. Were they "conspirators?" Perhaps, but two people is a weak conspiracy. Were they superiors amenable to their pursuits? Absolutely.

In other words, independent actors can share the same views, and act on them, but they are not "conspiring."

Blogger Damelon Brinn August 07, 2018 10:35 AM  

I figure Anonymous appearing to attack Q is a good thing, regardless of what's really going on. It screws with the Left's narrative that all the spooky dangerous underground hacker types they keep ranting about are on the Right. That's a lot harder to sell if one group like that is attacking another.

Blogger Looking Glass August 07, 2018 10:52 AM  

@53 James Dixon

"I don't know" requires your vanity to be in check. That's beyond most people.


Zwiebel wrote:I hope Q is legit, bit whether or not - his story is gripping. Could make an awesome trilogy by a gifted writer.

On another note - why are people so averse to conspiracy theories? We're all part of them every now and then. "That's against the rules, sorry." - "Can't you do something about that?" - "Well, let me see..."


Q is real, but what the Q Project's goals maybe be is what confuses most people. Everyone has this imperialistic assumption (too much Leftism clearly does that to everyone) that the Q Project is about them. It's been clear from the start that the target audience is the Chans. This is for the people that would find interesting in John Titor or Cicada 3301.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Cicada_3301 Is important for all of this, as it was something of a globetrotting ARG, though the reason why it happened has never been divulged. Complex projects like that take a good deal of work. The Q Project also has a massive amount of work behind it, which is why all of the "it's a LARP!" doesn't work. At least a few, that are against it, have pointed out it's clearly a version of a PsyOp from an Intelligence Agency.

But the baseline objectives seem to have been met. The Chans are now going to be impossible to ever control. The "Q Approach" can infinitely recreate itself. Call it "The Golden Path of the Chans" or something else that's an oblique sci-fi reference, but the strategic victory conditions were already met. A bit of Internet Culture was made, and the MSM still won't actually touch the topic. (And people wondered about why they opened with Hillary being arrested.)


@50 tuberman

They can't risk Trump even hemming & hawing about Q being "real". Mostly because Q has spent quite a bit of time explaining the controlled nature of the Press.

Blogger Brad Matthews August 07, 2018 10:56 AM  

MAQA

Blogger James Dixon August 07, 2018 10:59 AM  

> In other words, independent actors can share the same views, and act on them, but they are not "conspiring."

The media leaked the debate questions to the Clinton campaign. The recent Q attack stories all appeared within hours of each other after the Florida rally. I could give hundreds of examples. That's not just independent actors sharing the same views, though they do, that's people doing what they're told.

Blogger James Dixon August 07, 2018 11:02 AM  

> If Q was actually Admiral Mike Rogers. It makes sense.

Far more likely that it would be someone (probably multiple someones) on his staff. But yes, it does make sense.

> I don't know" requires your vanity to be in check. That's beyond most people.

I guess it is too much to expect. :(

Blogger Peter Gent August 07, 2018 11:02 AM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:
...Is Q real? What would real look like? What is real here? How inside does an insider have to be? Q has been really effective for MAGA. That's real enough, I think. A Deep State counter-op, a counter-Deep State op, a fat kid in mommy's basement, whatever - Q has the base energised, the normies asking questions, and the enemy attacking him. If Q is a LARP, what could a ``real'' Q have done better?

What would it take to prove Q is real? How would providing that proof make Q more effective?


Q shows all the hallmarks of a counter intelligence (CI) op in hostile territory. I believe that Q cannot be any more real without giving too much away and destroying his/their ability to get access to what is happening behind the scenes. I would be surprised if Q is one person. I believe Q is a team which helps obfuscate their identities.

Some things Q has said reveal access to intelligence information at more than a superficial or executive summary level. You better believe that there are serious deep state operators trying to ferret out Q and shut down the pipeline. You would not believe the software that can be used to build association/relationship trees and tie even apparently random information together to help pinpoint actors. There is a war going on that is being waged at the "Borne" level of subterfuge and shifting alliances. This is not a LARP but serious, deadly stuff. I hope we never learn who Q is, since lives will be at risk well into the future.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 07, 2018 11:04 AM  

@35

"Support MAGA and stop being gammas. This is war and about winning, don’t undercut the leader. Follow the leader and his moves. If nothing else, Q sows fear in the Left and makes them pause for just a moment."

Q is Pizzagate on steroids.
The Pizzagate findings are unassailable, but even mentioning it is considered fringe...
Q calm-before-the-storm autist's research is equally unassailable (althought not as much direct evidence, and relying on what we already found out in Pizzagate, such as spiral symbolism) but has become mainstream.

It's the fact that Q has become mainstream that has them absolutely terrified... because once a normie groks Q, it's only one step more to grok Pizzagate.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 07, 2018 11:04 AM  

that was @25, not 35

Blogger VD August 07, 2018 11:09 AM  

In other words, independent actors can share the same views, and act on them, but they are not "conspiring."

Bullshit. GameJournoPros were conspiring. JournoList was conspiring. The mainstream media is a literal conspiracy.

Blogger Looking Glass August 07, 2018 11:24 AM  

@67 Peter Gent

Q pointing to a North Korea deal while Trump was still trading insults on Twitter is a sign that their information sources are from the highest of levels. And, I agree, we never need to know who Q is.

@68 Dirk Manly

It also inter-relates to the stuff with Alex Jones. Sandy Hook is an utter rabbit hole you really don't want to go down, but Jones was willing to go there. When the local authorities do everything but put a sign up that says, "We're HIDING SOMETHING!", the MSM has to bail them out. Notice they never even bring up that Jones is one of the big "9/11 was an Inside Job" people?

@70 VD

Someone found another Journolist a few weeks ago, as well. It's what caused the dust up about "Trans" policy in The Atlantic.

http://archive.is/fTujY

It seems Leftist journalists have to coordinate, otherwise they can't think properly.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 07, 2018 11:36 AM  

@51

"It is apparent that many on the Left believe that they need to go full Socialist now. I think that it is energising their base. The timing of the Venezuelan collapse is unfortunate for them; it's turning off a lot of normies who might have nibbled the bait."

Antifa-Portland was out wearing coal-scuttle helmets (yes, that's right, WW2 German helmets) painted black, with the hammer-and-sickle on the side in bright red.

Talk about stupid.

Blogger CJ August 07, 2018 11:40 AM  

#58 WF

Because we all know news sites don't lie, do extensive research, understand whomst 4chan is, and anyone calling themselves Anonymous are Anonymous?

Good points, particularly that last one.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 07, 2018 11:43 AM  

@59

"You know what would really be something?

If Q was actually Admiral Mike Rogers. It makes sense."

Q is Adm. Rogers and/or Don Jr., or some individual(s) working for one or both of them.

Q+ is the God Emperor himself.

Rogers bring the intel angle.
Don Jr. the savvy about the chans.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 07, 2018 11:46 AM  

@60

"Yes, there are many people who are suspicious of conspiracy theories. There is one that has been around for many years that Obama was not born in Hawaii."

Which Obama confirmed recently -- referring to himself as the first Kenyan President of the United States.

Blogger Looking Glass August 07, 2018 11:46 AM  

@74 Dirk Manly

Q is clearly Taylor Swift.

Blogger Zwiebel August 07, 2018 11:58 AM  

"It seems Leftist journalists have to coordinate, otherwise they can't think properly."

How could you stay up to date with the Current Narrative all by your lonesome self? Rabbits...

I don't think mere "similarly minded people" really explains the co ordinated attacks on western civilization across nations as disparate as Norway and Italy.

There is something more organised afoot, and we all know it. The German right likes to blame the allies, but that doesn't explain why Britain, France, and the US are all equally if not more shafted as/than Germany. Funnily, the English like to blame the Germans, as if the EU was a German invention. But again, this is the press pushing counter factual information to divide and confuse us - in an internationally coordinated effort.

Pretty conspiratorial, if you ask me.

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelpia August 07, 2018 12:08 PM  

VD wrote:In other words, independent actors can share the same views, and act on them, but they are not "conspiring."

Bullshit. GameJournoPros were conspiring. JournoList was conspiring. The mainstream media is a literal conspiracy.


True enough, point taken. It's not that there AREN'T conspiracies -- certainly they happen -- but I think a lot of what people think of as "conspiracies" are in fact people who share the same views and act on them in a looser, independent more "networky" fashion. Don't get me wrong, it's still nefarious.

Did Obama, Rice, Brennan and Clapper get together at the end of the Obama's reign to cover their butts about their effort to delegitimize Trump? Absolutely.

Did Strozok and Page, who shared the same views, work with them directly to advance the Trump illegitimacy narrative? Maybe, but maybe not -- even if the the "Rice" unmasking was connected.

Again, my view is that a conspiracy is when people get in a room, real or virtual, and plot and plan.

Blogger Forge the Sky August 07, 2018 12:19 PM  

@78 I think you're (understandably) pushing back against the more extreme version of conspiracy theories - secret cabals going back centuries kind of stuff.

Just because such things are improbable doesn't mean conspiracies don't exist, even fairly large ones - though the core of people who are actively coordinating and strategizing would tend to be small. Most 'members' are simply responding to orders, implied expectations, or incentives.

Blogger Peter Gent August 07, 2018 12:36 PM  

There is a real cabal/conspiracy that goes back to the beginning of the human race and it is run by our arch enemy, Satan, Lucifer, the Devil, or whatever name suits you. This is real, coordinated, and never-ending, at least until the Second Coming. His greatest success is getting so many people to believe he and his conspiracy doesn't exist.

Blogger Looking Glass August 07, 2018 12:44 PM  

@78 KPKinSunnyPhiladelpia

There are "banal conspiracies of culture", but Leftists are always cogs in the Wheels of Babylon. The puppetmaster is playing on a level you aren't, however most involved don't understand it that way. They're given marching orders by the people that control their paychecks.

Once someone is corrupted, they'll keep being corrupt out of self-preservation. They know & use this. See the issues with PedoWood.

Blogger RobertT August 07, 2018 12:50 PM  

According to Taleb, the best advertising for a new book is controversy, the more controversial, the better.

Blogger Resident Moron™ August 07, 2018 1:31 PM  

Scott’s an intelligent, interesting and often amusing guy. But he’s just one guy. I don’t see anyone pushing back and going, hey Scott, you got a blind spot here .... not like the kind of instant negative feedback one gets here.

And I should say, I value negative feedback, I appreciate it. To me it’s a good thing because every navigation system works on negative feedback:

“Hey, you’re 3 degrees off, adjust left”

Or as Solomon said; the wise man seeks correction.

But Scott’s kind of living in a bubble

Blogger Garuna August 07, 2018 1:58 PM  

True enough, point taken. It's not that there AREN'T conspiracies -- certainly they happen -- but I think a lot of what people think of as "conspiracies" are in fact people who share the same views and act on them in a looser, independent more "networky" fashion. Don't get me wrong, it's still nefarious.

Again, my view is that a conspiracy is when people get in a room, real or virtual, and plot and plan.


What's this historically illiterate rubbish? Politics is all about conspiracy. It always has been.

Blogger Forge the Sky August 07, 2018 2:17 PM  

@83 two factors there:

1. One of his major mediums is Periscope/twitter, so most feedback he gets is limited to very brief comments whizzing by. He uses it for fact-checking, mostly, when he seeks feedback - or to 'feel out the room' to see how people react to an idea he presents.
2. He's too visible, so when he presents things in a blog he gets thousands of comments - most low-quality.

He also thinks most of people's perceptions are illusions and confirmation bias, so that doesn't help.

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelpia August 07, 2018 3:34 PM  

Garuna wrote:True enough, point taken. It's not that there AREN'T conspiracies -- certainly they happen -- but I think a lot of what people think of as "conspiracies" are in fact people who share the same views and act on them in a looser, independent more "networky" fashion. Don't get me wrong, it's still nefarious.

Again, my view is that a conspiracy is when people get in a room, real or virtual, and plot and plan.


What's this historically illiterate rubbish? Politics is all about conspiracy. It always has been.


Speaking of historically illiterate rubbish, do you understand the founding of the United States? Apparently not.

There was no revolutionary conspiracy, it was out in the open. Read the Declaration of Independence, about as political as you can get.

To conspire, you have to try to hide -- permanently.

Blogger DonReynolds August 07, 2018 4:20 PM  

Dirk Manly wrote:@60

"Yes, there are many people who are suspicious of conspiracy theories. There is one that has been around for many years that Obama was not born in Hawaii."

Which Obama confirmed recently -- referring to himself as the first Kenyan President of the United States.


Not all conspiracy theories are false. In many cases, we may never know the truth. I think about all the WWII vets who did not live long enough to know some of the truths about that war.

In 2008, we had a choice between the first Kenyan President of the US or the first Panamanian President of the US.

Not to be overly picky, but Obama was born August 4th, 1961....and Kenya did not become an independent nation until December 12, 1963. So if Obama was born in what is now Kenya in 1961, he would have had a British passport. In fact, Kenyatta was released from prison the same month Obama was born (somewhere). (Kenyatta was similar to Nelson Mandela in South Afrika....released from prison in time to become head of state.)

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella August 07, 2018 4:55 PM  

I have no idea how linear Q is on dropping information. But, the timing? Shia LeBouf plays capture the flag. It's visible to anyone on Twitter or a chan. We know that Trump, Sr is on Twitter, and that Trump, Jr, is comfortably anonymous on various boards- a feminist press writer snooped for his gun discussions.

We know that military men invented DARPA. We know that men overseas use all sort of communication boards- both serious military, and sillier, like Chive.com.

Someone has to have seen that you have an entire decentralized, really brilliant collection of people who can find anything as long as its entertaining to do so. Some other country dumped a mysterious archive of flight records. The chans figured out who it was, and what they were shipping: arms, from one warzone to another.

Q only calls out specific names, specific entertainers, specific government workers. They gyre does not widen to honest people in good society. It's always someone masked as good, who has shady paper.

The singers- Katy Perry, Madonna, Lady Gaga- all have signature video-styles- incredibly corrupting to the morals of young people- thin, reedy voices, immense ambition and very little talent. We know there are better singers- everyone piles on to their less well promoted youtube channels-

We know that these movies are off- box office is down from 1968, onward. It's not like normal, healthy movies are being fingered as corrupt.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella August 07, 2018 5:02 PM  

I have no idea how linear Q is on dropping information. But, the timing? Shia LeBouf plays capture the flag. It's visible to anyone on Twitter or a chan. We know that Trump, Sr is on Twitter, and that Trump, Jr, is comfortably anonymous on various boards- a feminist press writer snooped for his gun discussions.

We know that military men invented DARPA. We know that men overseas use all sort of communication boards- both serious military, and sillier, like Chive.com.

Someone has to have seen that you have an entire decentralized, really brilliant collection of people who can find anything as long as its entertaining to do so. Some other country dumped a mysterious archive of flight records. The chans figured out who it was, and what they were shipping: arms, from one warzone to another.

Q only calls out specific names, specific entertainers, specific government workers. They gyre does not widen to honest people in good society. It's always someone masked as good, who has shady paper.

The singers- Katy Perry, Madonna, Lady Gaga- all have signature video-styles- incredibly corrupting to the morals of young people- thin, reedy voices, immense ambition and very little talent. We know there are better singers- everyone piles on to their less well promoted youtube channels-

We know that these movies are off- box office is down from 1968, onward. It's not like normal, healthy movies are being fingered as corrupt.

Blogger Were-Puppy August 07, 2018 5:23 PM  

@55 Dave W.

Looks like Anonymous picked their side, and they picked poorly.
---

There are multiple versions of Anonymous.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 07, 2018 5:51 PM  

@83

"But Scott’s kind of living in a bubble"

Well, of course.

As the (self-appointed) Minister of All I Survey in Dogbert's New Ruling Class, a potential for more power and wealth upon the DNRC taking control, who am I to complain against the leader of this concept?


(Why yes, I have been waiting for 20 years for the DNRC to overthrow the Republocrat party..... what of it? Until Trump came along, the DNRC was the best option out there).

Blogger Dire Badger August 07, 2018 7:51 PM  

We know who Q is....

Peter and Valentine Wiggin

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 07, 2018 9:11 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 07, 2018 9:18 PM  

Any 2-bit larper, Fed, Commie, Nazi, SJW, activist, or sociopath can call themselves Anonymous.
Any public statement attributed to Anonymous is a LARP.
Anyone calling themselves Anonymous is intentionally lying.

THE QUESTION, PUT DIRECTLY TO PDJT, BY THE MSM.

"Mr. President, is Q real?"
"I can't say if Q is real, but one thing I can say. I promised to make America great again. And I'm working on that, working very very hard on that, on making America great again. But I can't do it alone. Because it's not my country, it our country. All of ours. If we're ever going to make this really, really amazing country great again, we're going to have to work together.

Because where we go one, we go all."

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants August 07, 2018 9:30 PM  

Any time 2 or more people get together and plan anything in private, they are conspiring.
Perhaps they are planning a surprise birthday party or a hunting trip, but they are conspiring.
The idea that a conspiracy is some goofy, tinfoil hat scenario, is ludicrous.

Blogger DonReynolds August 07, 2018 9:35 PM  

I was just at PrisonPlanet, the sister website to InfoWars, both operated by Alex Jones. The articles still load but each article says Disqus will not load for comments. Why would the Tech Bullies leave the articles, which they claim are hate speech, but shut down the comments....which are often critical of Alex Jones (or Paul Joseph Watson).

WE live in historic moments.

Blogger VD August 08, 2018 5:10 AM  

To conspire, you have to try to hide -- permanently.

No, you don't. Stop trying to redefine words to back up your lack of a case.

1. to agree together, especially secretly, to do something wrong, evil, or illegal:
2. to act or work together toward the same result or goal.


Secrecy is not required, much less permanent secrecy. You observably don't know what the word means.

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