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Tuesday, September 11, 2018

9/11: an explosive hypothesis

17 years after the fact, Ron Unz is increasingly inclined to conclude that Israel was responsible for the deadly 9/11 attacks in New York and Washington DC:
We would normally expect that terrorist attacks resulting in the complete destruction of three gigantic office buildings in New York City and an aerial assault on the Pentagon would be an operation of enormous size and scale, involving very considerable organizational infrastructure and manpower. Yet in the aftermath of the attacks, the US government undertook great efforts to locate and arrest the surviving Islamic conspirators, but scarcely managed to find a single one. Apparently, they had all died in the attacks themselves or otherwise simply vanished into thin air.

But oddly enough, without making much effort at all, the American government did quickly round up and arrest some 200 Israeli Mossad agents, many of whom had been based in exactly the same geographical locations as the purported 19 Arab hijackers. Furthermore, NYC police arrested some of these agents publicly celebrating the 9/11 attacks, while others were caught driving vans in the New York area containing explosives or their residual traces. Most of these Mossad agents refused to answer any questions, and many of those who did failed polygraph tests, but under political pressure all were eventually released and deported back to Israel.

There is also another fascinating tidbit that I have very rarely seen mentioned. One month after the 9/11 attacks, an Israeli intelligence officer and a local Jewish activist were caught attempting to sneak weapons and explosives into the Mexican Parliament building, a story that naturally produced several banner-headlines in leading Mexican newspapers at the time but which was totally ignored by the American media. Eventually, under massive political pressure, all charges were dropped and the Israeli agent deported back home. I remember first encountering this extremely suspicious incident in the early 2000s on an fringe Hispanic-activist website, and the scanned front pages of the Mexican newspapers reporting the dramatic events were once available elsewhere on the Internet, but after all these years I can no longer easily locate them. The details of this incident are obviously rather fragmentary and perhaps garbled, but certainly quite intriguing.

One might speculate that if Islamic terrorists had followed up their 9/11 attacks by also destroying the Mexican parliament building a month later, Latin American support for America’s military invasions in the Middle East would have been enormously greater. Furthermore, any scenes of such massive destruction in the Mexican capital by Arab terrorists would surely have been broadcast non-stop on Univision, America’s dominant Spanish-language network, fully solidifying Hispanic support for President Bush’s military endeavors.
It has to be admitted that this incredible hypothesis would explain more than a few anomalies surrounding the Official Story, which we already know has to be false due to it being the mainstream media narrative. Just to name one, the sudden transformation of the neocons from defeated mercenaries tied to John McCain to the lords of Bush 43's foreign policy has hitherto been inexplicable. The hypothesis certainly fits the means-motive-opportunity heuristic that has never made any sense when applied to Osama bin Laden, who denied responsibility, to say nothing of Saddam Hussein, and it also fits the historical pattern of Israeli false flag attacks blamed on Arabs, a pattern that, as Unz notes, goes back to the 1946 attack on the King David Hotel in Jerusalem.

The hypothesis may also help explain the strangely intense hostility that the media harbors for Q, as well as why Q rather bizarrely brought up Israel as a problem for the Trump administration that is even bigger than North Korea's nuclear weapons. Q has repeatedly pointed out that the American public is not ready for the unvarnished truth, and while most of us have assumed he was simply talking about pedophiles and Satanists in high places, the possibility of an official declaration from the White House that 9/11 was an Israeli false flag would tend to fall in the category of truths that the average American would find very hard to accept, especially in light of the inevitable media firestorm that such an announcement would ignite.

As a strong supporter of Israel, I have to admit that if it eventually turns out that Israel was, in fact, responsible for attacking New York City and Washington DC, I don't know if I will ever be able to forgive them for failing to launch a few missiles at Hollywood as well.

Anyhow, I don't know who is responsible. At this point, it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out to be a secret Mormon-Scientologist alliance formed to immanentize the eschaton. But the truth is what it is, and history is what happened, regardless of what we happen to believe today. About the only parties we can be certain were re not responsible are Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, and al Qaeda.

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198 Comments:

Blogger pyrrhus September 11, 2018 9:06 AM  

Unz lays out a pretty logical case, as 9/11 did solve a lot of Israel's problems, and the physical evidence makes it clear that the Narrative is a lie in almost every respect.

Blogger PragmaticTroll September 11, 2018 9:09 AM  

The first time I was exposed to this theory was by David Duke. But then he blames Israel for everything. Broken clock and all that...

Blogger Steve Canyon September 11, 2018 9:11 AM  

Makes you wonder if there wasn't some financial skulduggery going on in firms like Cantor Fitzgerald too. Let's you and him fight with a secondary benefit of blowing up potentially incriminating evidence of your market schemes and manipulations? Too good an opportunity to pass up.

Blogger Jew613 September 11, 2018 9:18 AM  

Yes, it was the Jews. Only explanation that makes sense. While Etzel members dressed as Arabs tonneau into the King David Hotel for the bombing. They also took credit by calling the Palestine Post and UPI news wire. Admitting it was the Etzel behind the bombing.

Blogger JACIII September 11, 2018 9:18 AM  

"I have to admit that if it eventually turns out that Israel was, in fact, responsible for attacking New York City and Washington DC, I don't know if I will ever be able to forgive them for failing to attack Hollywood as well."

Filing away with "3000 dead yankees.... It's a good start."

Blogger Bultz September 11, 2018 9:23 AM  

One of the main issues with the 9/11 story is how completely untrained people are able to turn around and with incredible accuracy fly with a 100% success rate 3 planes travelling hundreds of miles an hour from hundreds of miles away into their targets. Then I realised with the vault 7 releases that they probably programmed the auto pilot to do it. If people think I am crazy, what is more believable - people who the media said were taking cessna plane lessons ("we don't need landing lessons") pulling off these incredible manoeuvres with total success, or an autopilot?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 11, 2018 9:31 AM  

"I have to admit that if it eventually turns out that Israel was, in fact, responsible for attacking New York City and Washington DC, I don't know if I will ever be able to forgive them for failing to launch a few missiles at Hollywood as well."

Gold.

"If people think I am crazy, what is more believable - people who the media said were taking cessna plane lessons ("we don't need landing lessons") pulling off these incredible manoeuvres with total success, or an autopilot?"

Really easy for either one, TBH, and the autopilot option seems unnecessarily complicated, considering you'd probably have to override at least an altitude safety feature or three. Steering a plane into something is pretty easy as long as you aren't trying to do it through fog or a hurricane or something.

Blogger FALPhil September 11, 2018 9:39 AM  

VD said:
As a strong supporter of Israel...


I used to be a strong supporter of Israel. But over time, it occurred to me that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for the USA to ally itself with a country who proves time and again that it has no loyalty. We keep propping Israel up with dollars and foreign policy, and what do we get in return?

Blogger pnq8787 September 11, 2018 9:40 AM  

The Jews accuse the anti-semites of blood libel, but if the events of WW2 are not as the Jews have described, isn't that blood libel against the German people? If 9/11 was committed by Israel, isn't that blood libel against the Muslim people? It strikes me as demonic the way the perpetrators of evil openly talk about what they do while pinning the guilt on the innocent. Deceit is the not the way of the European mind. The European mind prefers truth and open combat to lies and subversion. Woe to the Jew if he is ever discovered for what he is.

Blogger Eric I. Gatera. September 11, 2018 9:43 AM  

" I don't know if I will ever be able to forgive them for failing to launch a few missiles at Hollywood as well."

HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA ... didn't see this coming. LOL

Blogger tz September 11, 2018 9:46 AM  

Chuck Baldwin's sermon this sunday was on this very topic

He goes into more details and evidence, but then adds the Christian hopeful perspective.

Blogger wreckage September 11, 2018 9:47 AM  

Clearly 9/11 was Russia interfering with American democracy.
Nothing else makes sense.

Blogger Northwest Watching Thing September 11, 2018 9:52 AM  



"VD said:
As a strong supporter of Israel...

I used to be a strong supporter of Israel."

Despite their multitude of betrayals I'm a supporter of Israel. Because the alternative, the destruction of Israel, means there's no place for Jews to go when the West decides they are no longer welcome.

Blogger Gettimothy September 11, 2018 9:54 AM  

"We keep propping Israel up with dollars and foreign policy, and what do we get in return?"

Podhoretz the reprllent

Blogger Blunt Force September 11, 2018 9:56 AM  

Nobody could've seen it coming.

"As Deputy Director for the CIA, in 1996, Tenet had worked to install one of his closest friends and confidants, John Brennan, as CIA station chief in Saudi Arabia.At the time, as an apparent favor to the Saudis, CIA analysts were discouraged from questioning Saudi links to Arab extremists."

https://digwithin.net/2014/07/27/george-tenet/

" I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within."
General Douglas MacArthur

Blogger Doug Cranmer September 11, 2018 10:00 AM  

FBIanon stated very matter of factly that 911 was Mossad. Just that and it was simply never touched on again. I found it interesting.

Blogger English Tom September 11, 2018 10:07 AM  

For a complete analysis of how Israel did 9/11 check out: Bollyn.com Christopher Bollyn identified Israel many years ago as the perpetrator. He identifies the players and their ZOG connections. You might also check out: Zioncrimefactory who does a similar task.

Also, on Sept 10th 2001 (The day before the atrocity) a US intelligence agency (can't recall which one) issued a report about various foreign intelligence agencies. Regarding Israel it said: wildcard. Able to disguise itself as Arabs and attack Americans (see: the Lavon affair). A patriot obviously trying to get a warning out.
God rot the jews for all eternity. One day hopefully soon, the entire human race will realise just who the enemy is and take the necessary action to make the jews self-fulfilling prophecy (the holohoax) a reality. Wipe them out like the satanic cancerous vermin they are.

Blogger Purge187 September 11, 2018 10:15 AM  

I'm still struggling to believe that jetliners can be hijacked by men with crudely made box cutters.

Blogger Teleros September 11, 2018 10:23 AM  

Related, but (((David Cole))) is very grumpy at Mr Unz for his Holocaust article:

http://takimag.com/article/holocaust-denial-triumphant
http://www.countercontempt.com/archives/5908

Blogger Looking Glass September 11, 2018 10:30 AM  

Purge187 wrote:I'm still struggling to believe that jetliners can be hijacked by men with crudely made box cutters.

"Zero Day Attack". As of Sept 10th, 2001, planes only got hijacked or bombed. In the 30 years leading up to the 9/11 attacks, very few had died in any hijackings. Dangerous situation, obviously, but until that point "staying calm" actually meant you would come out alive. Rather technically, the Attack Vector worked for all of 90 minutes. No airliner can be successfully hijacked, now, without physically outnumbering the rest of the passengers.

On the issue of 9/11 directly, we've got Saudi Government support of the hijackers, Iranian support for their movement around the globe and Israeli Mossad agents all over the place. (Plus, some weird ties to the OKC Bombing once you get into the Indonesia stuff.) Then clear, direct actions by the Federal Government to make the type of attack far more viable over the course of the entire 1990s.

At this point, this was bought & paid for by a faction of the Elites for multiple purposes. Mossad being the contracted operators puts so much money laundered distance between the people behind the attack and who carried it out that you'll never be able to connect it all. The attack was clearly one of "their" actions. Who are "they"? That's the important question.

I am starting to question, though, whether actually taking out the Capitol would have really been that bad. Might have been a slight net-positive for the country, given the recent revelations.

Blogger Nate September 11, 2018 10:35 AM  

3000 dead yankees.

Frankly it sounds like a perfectly good start.

Blogger Lucius Cincinnatus September 11, 2018 10:36 AM  

Ry Dawson has a lot of information that corroborates the thesis that Israel was behind 9/11, or, at the very least, directly involved in its execution.

The question I pose to even the most irrational 9/11 conspiracy theorist is this: "Who stood to benefit the most from the attacks? How was 9/11 used to justify curtailing freedom, massive war contracts, and and starting an unending war?" Answer those questions and arguing over the tensile strength of jet fuel-heated beams or nano-thermite becomes irrelevant.

Blogger fiendeJ September 11, 2018 10:36 AM  

@8 Supporting the existence of an Israeli state doesn't make the US responsible for securing it.

Blogger Ransom Smith September 11, 2018 10:37 AM  

Everyone always thinks about the WTC but the Pentagon is the really interesting one.
Especially when you realize there's shockingly little evidence a plane even struck the building in the first place .
The FBI miraculously, released new unseen photographs of the Pentagon, just last year .

Blogger doctrev September 11, 2018 11:00 AM  

At this point, it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out to be a secret Mormon-Scientologist alliance formed to immanentize the eschaton.

Gosh dangit, the Gentiles know! SHUT IT DOWN!

Blogger Pope Cleophus I September 11, 2018 11:13 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Pope Cleophus I September 11, 2018 11:16 AM  

And?

It seems to me that turning Israel into the World's Largest FEMA Camp might be a good start.

Blogger Crew September 11, 2018 11:17 AM  

One of the video Unz points to is this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7xTsWsLbV4

That video contains these comments by Sabrosky:

It is 100% certain that 9/11 was a Mossad operation. ….And what Americans need to understand is they did it! And if they do understand it, Israel will flat ass disappear from this earth!

Dr. Alan Sabrosky…former US War College Director


To what extent is this true?

If true, then it means that for a certain party the fiction needs to be maintained, come what may.

Blogger English Tom September 11, 2018 11:18 AM  

@Steve Canyon

Check out what happened to the gold that was in the vault in one of the towers. All of it disappeared. How could Muslims have engineered that theft? Let's remember who owned the towers.

Blogger pyrrhus September 11, 2018 11:23 AM  

@24 It's pretty well established that a missile hit the pentagon, not a plane...And took out a bunch of files on Clinton/MIC corruption...

Blogger Damelon Brinn September 11, 2018 11:26 AM  

Especially when you realize there's shockingly little evidence a plane even struck the [Pentagon] in the first place.

And considerable evidence that it didn't, starting with a hole in the building that fits the fuselage (or a missile), not the much denser engines out on the wings.

Blogger Latigo3 September 11, 2018 11:28 AM  

I remember reading about this years ago and it all got swept under the rug. I never heard about the Mexican Parliament building attempt.
Whatever the truth is, it needs to come out.
Unfortunately, the Jews seem to like to put out lies. In our recent trip to Israel, our Israeli tour guide tried to foist on me "the Romans killed Jesus" story. I then commenced to ask him about the rest of the story and he realized that the "official story" wasn't going to work with us.
If they are willing to put out a lie in reference to Calvary, then why not 9/11?

Blogger Angantyr September 11, 2018 11:34 AM  

This brings to mind a couple data points regarding 9/11:
1) A few months before the attack I remember something either in the papers or the broadcast news about Prez Bush II trying to draw down our military presence in the Middle East, which libertarian that I was back then met with my approval.
2) During the 9/11 attacks I distinctly remember a live news report stating that one of the hijacked aircraft had been intercepted and shot down. Never heard it again. While I think that the account is a genuine mistake, conflating the deliberate crashing of UA-93 with USAF fighters being scrambled to try and take down hijacked planes, I've always had a lingering "spidey-sense" feel that maybe we did shoot down UA-93, and fabricated the story of passenger heroics afterwards. There's so much Bravo Sierra in the official accounts that I find myself questioning everything...

Blogger Avalanche September 11, 2018 11:43 AM  

I have only just started Posobiec's book; so I don't know if he covers this. I would expect he does. On the web, always, there is info, DIS-info, and bat-sh|t-crazy info. The problem, always, is sorting.

At the moment, I'm startled; with both my auto-rejection and confirmation bias on alert from the last few days: "9/11 to 9/11 is 17 years; 17 years = Q"?! Is that info? Misinfo? DISinfo?

I have done a couple of deep dives into 9/11 over the years. Some is entirely verifiable. Some is likely insane. Some is not yet sortable.

My most recent astonishing eyebrow raiser came from Vox Populi et seq. I had completely discarded the whole 'directed energy beam' thing of Dr. Judy Woods -- agreeing with the pile-on of other 9/11 researchers because of her couple of kindergarten-stupid pronouncements: e.g., 'Newscasters reported on a charity asking for replacement steel-toed workboots, because the boots of the workers on the Pit were MELTING, and therefore,' Dr. Woods concluded, 'the ground was hot enough to melt steel!' Uh, no -- the plastic SOLES of the boots were melting, NOT the steel! Geez, did she not even ASK anyone, or think about it for a minute?!

Later, having gained a respectful appreciation for Dr Jerry Pournelle from folks here, esp. Vox -- and learning of Dr. Pournelle's deep background military and science knowledge and experience -- I was taken aback when, somewhere (in an intro to one of the There Will Be War books, maybe?), POURNELLE himself wrote that the govt was working on directed energy weapons (in the 1960s? '50s?) and then the govt took that program dark!

My "new" confirmation bias had become: if Dr. Pournelle says it, I should (tentatively) believe it FIRST and then try to debunk it later. ('Later' has not yet arrived, so I’m left with... two competing pairs of confirmation bias...

But, there are boatloads of all three kinds of info 'out there.' Methodical Deception and its follow-on books and interviews by alleged flight attendant / purser Rebekah Roth provided ... info ... but which kind? Her stuff seemed very plausible (even likely), and answers several problems with various hypotheses. Then came the pile-on and 'debunking' of her -- but was it?

The peer-reviewed (not that THAT is so persuasive anymore) science papers and presentations can be 'sorted' through if one has some science knowledge... An apparently knowledgeable person (purser or fake?) with persuasive info is harder to suss out.

Blogger kurt9 September 11, 2018 11:44 AM  

Yes, I remember Bush II wanting to reduce our presence in the Middle-east during the spring of 2001. He talked about having a more "humble" foreign policy. The neocons seemed to hijack our foreign policy in the wake of 9/11.

Blogger English Tom September 11, 2018 11:44 AM  

@Steve Canyon

I also heard that the missile sorry plane that hit the Pentagon hit the office where people were investigating what happened to all those missing trillions. Dov Zakheim and his dastardly plans at work.

Blogger Solon September 11, 2018 11:46 AM  

@Northwest Watching Thing

Sure there is: we've got two great big oceans to either side of us, and they are welcome to take a dip in either one.

Failing that, they can always go to the Middle East anyway and ask the Muslims to shelter them. It's not like they have been actively at war with Muslims for a few millennia or anything, they even let Palestinians live in Israel right now. Surely the Muslims will be understanding, it's a religion of peace, right?

Blogger Rabbi B September 11, 2018 11:46 AM  

@21 Nate

(((Roll Tide)))

Blogger Avalanche September 11, 2018 11:48 AM  

@6 "Then I realised with the vault 7 releases that they probably programmed the auto pilot to do it."

Which "they"? Who "they"? Have you not read up on Global Hawk -- and the long-range 'commercial' jet "they" flew from the U.S. to Australia without pilots or crew? Landed and took off again? What do you think drones ARE if not ground-controlled "planes"?

(((WHO))) were most likely to be the ones programming the 9/11 jets to fly paths even seasoned pilots said they could not fly -- and aerodynamic engineers said (about the Pentagon jet) were NOT aerodynamically possible?

Hmmmm. Makes yah think...
Or it oughta!

Blogger English Tom September 11, 2018 11:48 AM  

@Lucius Cinncinatus

You could also mention that the Patriot act was written BEFORE the attacks by one Michael Chertoff an Israeli firster and also implicated in the attacks (apparently Chertoff got all those arrested Israelis released).

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 11, 2018 11:49 AM  

Amazing that if true, you have an almost entire ethnic group/people focused on death, mayhem, chaos and evil throughout the world. Not just the leaders of a particular people, but the body of them. How do any of them escape this evil mindset? I'm thankful personally that some do.

Blogger tuberman September 11, 2018 11:51 AM  

The question might be, who were all the complicit groups involved? Many!

Certainly Mossad knew about it, and were likely involved, and at least, did nothing to stop it.

Yet so was the Bush Crime Family, and their branch of the CIA. Also, probably many of MI5/MI6/SIS, and members of 5 Eyes.

The interwoven Globalists cabals knew about this, and to various degrees were in on some aspects of this operation.

The question would be...how much is Israel part of the Globalist cabal, or is it just aspects of the cabals people in power in the Mossad, similar to how they work/infiltrate most of the three CIA branches?

There is a theory that the European Union was set up by and run by the CIA and Brussels is merely one of their ops.

Accusing all of Israel might be premature, like accusing all the USA for the crimes of the last four Presidents. While those in power may be bad actors, this can change. Yet it does need to exposed first to see what the people of those countries do next.

Blogger James Dixon September 11, 2018 11:52 AM  

> At this point, it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out to be a secret Mormon-Scientologist alliance formed to immanentize the eschaton.

Speaking of: https://www.rt.com/news/438102-bible-prophecy-heifer-apocalypse/

> Filing away with "3000 dead yankees.... It's a good start."

"And I wish it was three million, instead of what we got.": http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/folk-song-lyrics/Unreconstructed_Rebel.htm

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 11, 2018 11:54 AM  

Tuberman,

Read my comment again. I'm drawing a distinction between corrupt leadership of a people, as opposed to an almost entire people.

Blogger Duke Norfolk September 11, 2018 11:54 AM  

Angantyr wrote:There's so much Bravo Sierra in the official accounts that I find myself questioning everything...

That pretty much describes my view of just about everything these days. I don't know what is true anymore, other than what I just ate for lunch.

Blogger Avalanche September 11, 2018 11:55 AM  

@7 "Steering a plane into something is pretty easy as long as you aren't trying to do it through fog or a hurricane or something."

Try reading through here: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/

or here:
https://www.ae911truth.org/

Catch up.

Blogger hlbrk September 11, 2018 11:56 AM  

@Avalanche: "On the web, always, there is info, DIS-info, and bat-sh|t-crazy info. The problem, always, is sorting."


Another quote for by collection, thank you!

Blogger English Tom September 11, 2018 11:57 AM  

@Avalanche

Re: remote control of planes.

An interesting point is that on both the planes that crashed into the towers were members of an Israeli special forces unit called sayeret mactal (I may have misspelt this). This unit specialises in things like aircraft hijackings.

Blogger Avalanche September 11, 2018 11:57 AM  

@13 "the destruction of Israel, means there's no place for Jews to go when the West decides they are no longer welcome."

Madagascar?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd September 11, 2018 12:07 PM  

pyrrhus wrote:@24 It's pretty well established that a missile hit the pentagon, not a plane...And took out a bunch of files on Clinton/MIC corruption...

Fred Reed has reported that he, or people he trusts, walked out of a bar and saw that plane go past low and slow on its way to crash into the Pentagon. Fred Reed has his little flaws, but adhering to the Narrative isn't generally one of them.

Blogger English Tom September 11, 2018 12:08 PM  

@Tuberman

You are correct to differentiate between the ordinary people of Israel and the Mossad. I believe most intelligence agencies in the world serve the bankers and agree on the potential for collusion in 9/11 between various foreign and domestic entities. Also don't forget that treasonous rat Eberhardt who was bead of NORAD on the day.

Blogger English Tom September 11, 2018 12:09 PM  

bead = head

Blogger Avalanche September 11, 2018 12:14 PM  

@50 'Fred Reed has reported that he, or people he trusts, ... saw that plane go past low and slow on its way to crash into the Pentagon.

CAN'T have been low and slow, because ... "our" govt says (insists!):

Flight 77, flying at 530 mph (853 km/h, 237 m/s, or 460 knots) over the Navy Annex Building adjacent to Arlington National Cemetery, crashed into the western side of the Pentagon in Arlington County, Virginia, just south of Washington, D.C., at 09:37:46.

Blogger 63worldseries September 11, 2018 12:16 PM  

I'll do you one better: there were no planes.

Blogger pyrrhus September 11, 2018 12:17 PM  

@50 There's the little problem of not finding airplane parts at the site too...

Blogger Daniel September 11, 2018 12:19 PM  

Here is the archived article that mentions what UNZ refers to:

Israeli spies receive prison sentences
in New Zealand


Paragraph 2.

Here are Wikispook's thoughts on the matter.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd September 11, 2018 12:21 PM  

Avalanche wrote:CAN'T have been low and slow, because ... "our" govt says (insists!):

Avalanche, low and slow were my words, not his. Fred is an almost credible source for there being a plane in the right place at the right time. It adds verisimilitude to that portion of the official story.

Blogger Daniel September 11, 2018 12:22 PM  

And, from the Less Communist Version of the New York Times, Pravda:

Ernesto Cienfuegos: Zionist Terrorists Arrested Inside Mexican Congress

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 11, 2018 12:40 PM  

I posted Unz' link at Conservative Treehouse. It posted successfully, but it isn't there any more.

Blogger Avalanche September 11, 2018 12:43 PM  

@50 Oh, and aeronautical engineers say that air pressure/ground effect lift absolutely prevented "the plane" from flying so close to the ground as to have made that way too small 'entry' hole in the facade. Through which *allegedly* the super-speeding jet folded up its wings against the fuselage and 'slipped into' a hole too small for the plane even before considering the tail section, and without the tail doing any damage to the facade.

All of that was BEFORE the roof, fell in -- familiar with that or not? Many photos of the ACTUAL (small) hole into the Pentagon -- at first floor level -- yet without ANY damage to the grass/ground outside the Pentagon -- lots of photos of the pristine grass too! And those titanium engine shrouds? Funny, somehow THEY melted away to nothing...

Titanium, titanium, titanium.... I can't get over that! And IF the govt actually managed to ID the DNA for every passenger but 4-5 ... how was there also a fire/explosion strong enough to completely melt into invisibility the two engines weighing 3,267 kg (7,203 lb)(data from Rolls Royce, who made them)? Titanium melts at 3,034°F / 1,668°C -- how then can there be un-burned books and un-melted computer monitors in the photos where this alleged plane dove into the Pentagon?

Lots of 'proof' and 'debunking' and insults and catcalls and ... info, mis-info, and DISinfo... Read it all and winnow what you can!

Blogger GammaCatch September 11, 2018 12:44 PM  

Obviously, the solution is to become Jewish. We could rule the world! Surprised no one has thought of that yet.

Blogger John Calla September 11, 2018 12:47 PM  

@21

Oh boy, you're hilarious!

Blogger English Tom September 11, 2018 12:54 PM  

@Gammacatch

Re: becoming jewish.

It's a very exclusive club, and you're not in it. Nor will you ever be in it. Be thankful for This.

Blogger Homesteader September 11, 2018 1:00 PM  

"May you live in interesting times".

Blogger JACIII September 11, 2018 1:06 PM  

Avalanche wrote:@50

Titanium, titanium, titanium.... I can't get over that! And IF the govt actually managed to ID the DNA for every passenger but 4-5 ... how was there also a fire/explosion strong enough to completely melt into invisibility the two engines weighing 3,267 kg (7,203 lb)(data from Rolls Royce, who made them)?


I have a relative who did failure analysis of jet engines. He told stories of the compressors blown from engines and traveling miles across the ground.

Blogger Cloom Glue September 11, 2018 1:07 PM  

Philip Marshall was a 767 pilot and he was murdered at 2013. So his books, The Big Bamboozle: 9/11 (2008), and False Flag 911 (2012) might be worth remembering.

http://911blogger.com/news/2013-02-08/philip-marshall-911-author-and-two-children-found-dead-calif

Blogger Crew September 11, 2018 1:11 PM  

@66: Seems they are cleaning up the more credible opponents of the official story.

Blogger Johnny September 11, 2018 1:11 PM  

Just going by what is ordinary and therefore sensible in the absence of evidence to the contrary, I would be unsurprised if it were to come out that Israel knew about the 9/11 event and decided not to tell us. That would be an ordinary level of villainy for a government. The other extreme, that they did it directly, strikes me as very unlikely in the absence of evidence. In between stuff, that maybe they facilitated in some way? Who knows.

The usual argument for why we didn't get fighter planes in the air sooner is that Rumsfeld had our air force on low an alert level because he favored a terrorist hit for how it would effect public policy. (The same thing is put forward for Roosevelt and Pearl Harbor.) That is a could be for me, the kind of government villainy that is not unusual.

Why we might want Israel around? I suppose at the least they could the Canary in the coal mine. Not that I favor the degree of control they have over our politics.

Blogger Cloom Glue September 11, 2018 1:13 PM  

@65 @50 I read the official report and I remember the engines are said to have been found inside the pentagon. Although that could be a lie, we cannot say the official story claims the engines disintegrated.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 September 11, 2018 1:14 PM  

The Pentagon was hit by a plane. There were too many eyewitnesses and it isn't located in a remote area. People I know even witnessed debris from it on I-395.

Blogger Avalanche September 11, 2018 1:18 PM  

@65 "I have a relative who did failure analysis of jet engines. He told stories of the compressors blown from engines and traveling miles across the ground."

Yeah-so, would those miles have included into or through the Pentagon? Or would the specially hardened walls of the ONE section of all the Pentagon that 'just happened' to be hit have stopped or slowed the titanium engines? They could NOT have completely disappeared, could they?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 11, 2018 1:22 PM  

There would have been holes in the Pentagon walls that roughly correspond to the orientation to the engines on the wings, or shut even the wings themselves. Nothing. Just a neat hole where something small punched through the walls.

Blogger S1AL September 11, 2018 1:30 PM  

Funny how the extremely pro-immigration, anti-ethno-state Unz would find a reason to defend all immigration and attack the world's most blatant ethno-state so the same time.

Rather convenient.

Blogger Avalanche September 11, 2018 1:30 PM  

@68 "The usual argument for why we didn't get fighter planes in the air sooner is that Rumsfeld had our air force on low an alert level"

Uh, not even close.

at least six such exercises were scheduled for September 11, 2001 (https://www.emeraldinsight.com/doi/abs/10.1016/S0161-7230%2806%2923004-9)"

(Go listen to the Air Traffic Controllers calling NORAD about hijackings and being asked if this was real or part of the drill? Actual ATC recordings!)

(Hey, look who shows up:
"FBI Director Robert Mueller declared a week after the attacks, "There were no warning signs that I'm aware of that would indicate this type of operation in the country."8" (https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-military-drills-of-september-11th-why-a-new-investigation-is-needed/6906)
Followed by the listing of briefings and info "we" already had about exactly that type of operation!)

Blogger Calven September 11, 2018 1:31 PM  

This thread is gold.

Blogger Lucius Cincinnatus September 11, 2018 1:32 PM  

English Tom wrote:@Lucius Cinncinatus

You could also mention that the Patriot act was written BEFORE the attacks by one Michael Chertoff an Israeli firster and also implicated in the attacks (apparently Chertoff got all those arrested Israelis released).


Delete this! Shut it down!

Blogger GammaCatch September 11, 2018 1:33 PM  

The spooky, and sad, part about all this: It's not the Jews or a permitted State act. There was a time when we had narrowed the corruption down to this: Saudi Arabian money and Saudis with USA interests. Some of their people paid for it, we protected them due to War Debts and Contracts. But we had to attack somebody, so we hit the closest things denying the links to Sud. If I recall correctly there are thousands of Suds with money behind "Conservative" media like FNC. I don't know what shady crap went on with "finding Bin laden" and then, you know, casually dumping his body in the sea. The roumer was that they shot the body to bits and no one wanted to get court marshaled, then everyone was given a pass. Heck, remember when The Left was promoting Al Jezerra HARD? They still do as a Troll. Really interesting stuff VD posted anyway, but I think it is as simple as:
-USA loves Saudi Arabia more than Israel or anyone else over there.
-We find out the Suds are responsible. We fly them out of the country.
-Go after the people they paid to attack us, make a deal with Sud never to speak of their involvement so they keep using The Dollar.
-Massive propaganda by USA government and power grab under the guise of protecting us.
My favorite stat: Before 9/11, 800 mosques in the USA, by 2012, 3,000.
Tell me THAT is not intentional.
And, I know its a joke, but "Mormon-Scientologist" could be a real problem. They both love big government, are eager to apologize for Islam, and they along with the Baptists do a lot of the invader harboring. When the USA falls apart, those two will want their slice.

Blogger pyrrhus September 11, 2018 1:44 PM  

Wings, where are they, where is the impact imprint?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 11, 2018 1:51 PM  

The flight paths of the planes that hit the towers are not "impossible" or even very difficult. Aircraft can do a great deal that's outside their published capacity.

The second plane was televised LIVE flying into the tower for God's sake. All you "Theorists" with your idiot narratives about how the towers came down are serving the Cabal but discrediting any conversation about WHO brought them down.

Blogger S1AL September 11, 2018 1:55 PM  

'The second plane was televised LIVE flying into the tower for God's sake. All you "Theorists" with your idiot narratives about how the towers came down are serving the Cabal but discrediting any conversation about WHO brought them down.'

Come on, everybody knows that those clips were produced in the same studio where they called the moon landings and JFK's assassination. It was run by Elvis, of course.

Still waiting for any 9/11 truther to answer my challenge regarding why the terms "liquidus" and "solidus" are relevant to their theories.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 11, 2018 1:57 PM  

S1AL,

Are you saying Unz is doing wheels within wheels, plots within plots?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 11, 2018 1:59 PM  

Oh, and the Titanium engine shrouds are a relatively small part of a Jet Engine. Titanium was selected because it has a much higher melting point than aluminum. It is only used for a small part of the engine because titanium is very expensive and it is quite soft.

Blogger S1AL September 11, 2018 2:01 PM  

Stg58 -

I'm saying that I'm pretttttyyy skeptical about the sudden Jew/Israel conspiracy obsession of a guy whose politics look a lot like Soros's. I find that just a weeeer bit too much to stomach.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 11, 2018 2:01 PM  

S1AL wrote:Come on, everybody knows that those clips were produced in the same studio where they called the moon landings and JFK's assassination.
OMG, You're Right! I denounce my error-filled thinking. I fully endorse the "fake airplanes with and without pilots did and did not crash into the towers, but in any case did not bring them down because fire doesn't melt steel" theory.

Blogger Jon Mollison September 11, 2018 2:01 PM  

Come now. The nation responsible for the attack on the USS Liberty would never...um, sorry, not sure where I was going with this.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 11, 2018 2:12 PM  

It can't have been Israel. We know this because Mohammed Atta's pristine passport was found at the WTC scene. Case closed.

Blogger Dirk Manly September 11, 2018 2:20 PM  

That was always been the one "what's going on here?" point with me:

How did they identify the names of the hijackers (AND know that there were exactly 19 of them) within hours? It's not like there were any fellow passengers or other witnesses to interview.

Blogger justaguy September 11, 2018 2:27 PM  

Incredible theories need very large amounts of very credible support. As a start, we must separate 9/11 causation and the subsequent Iraq invasion later. The blogpost linked above gets too much into Iraq as a mistake. The 9/11 theory proffered has to stand on its own and include the existing evidence of islamic terrorists. There are too many credible scenarios where a panicked elite to use 9/11 as a reason to support an invasion of Iraq to use Iraq as support for a 9/11 theory.

Any decent storyteller can create a narrative of evil masterminds behind other evil masterminds. There were quite a few sets of independent eyes on the evidence immediately after 9/11 so we have to start with that evidence. So introduce new evidence, show how the old evidence supports the theory-- but just creating a narrative that fits a few of the facts sounds like flat earthing it to me.

Blogger Damelon Brinn September 11, 2018 2:42 PM  

There are a lot of crazy theories out there involving things like holograms, surely created to discredit all explanations that contradict the official narrative. That's worked pretty well. It kept me from exploring the topic objectively for at least ten years.

The media did an excellent job right from the start of sidelining all alternative theories as wackadoodle nonsense. Which is strange, when you think about it, since as long as Bush was president, 9/11 Truthers were almost entirely leftists of the anti-war, "Bush lied" variety. Odd that the left-wing media gave their comrades so little help.

Blogger Robert What? September 11, 2018 3:02 PM  

Our over paid intelligence agencies were either complicit in 9/11 or were terminally incompetent: take your pick. It is certainly extremely plausible that the Israelis were involved, but it still leaves the question of logistics open: who enlisted the hijackers? Who paid them (or their families)? And who did the hijackers think they were working for?

Blogger Shimshon September 11, 2018 3:18 PM  

It was recently reported that Netanyahu directly (and successfully) lobbied Trump to end UNRWA aid. He bypassed the IDF and Shabak to do so. I have no doubt he also bypassed Mossad. Their flimsy excuse was that depriving Hamas of $300 million (a significant chunk of funding for them) would somehow increase their power. Yeah, right. In any case, he must be in less fear of his life that he would bypass powerful opponents like that.

Cabal is a franchise operation. What the Israel franchise has done, I don't know. But, being a nuclear power with a higher than average IQ (regardless of what Vox says, the Ashkenazis still dominate the levers of power and the economy, and it is thus their IQ average that is pertinent), they are able to wreak havoc. They could have had some role in 9/11. Who knows if we will ever know the truth. As Vox says, all we really know is that the official story is not what happened.

Blogger Lovekraft September 11, 2018 3:19 PM  

I lean towards islamists/GloboJihad at the end of the day. Even if Israel/Mossad was involved, I don't place their level of evil on the same level as islam that has proceeded, since 9/11 to commit thousands upon thousands of horrific murders, assaults, bombings, rapes.

It is also worth looking into how the subsequent years has muslims use the 'the west is meddling/invading our lands so all further criticism of us is shut down' as it proceeded to make advances in western nations.

Unz would be well served to take his blinders off and look at the general war strategy of Islam over the past seventeen years.

Blogger Ahärôwn September 11, 2018 3:27 PM  

It's pretty well established that a missile hit the pentagon, not a plane...And took out a bunch of files on Clinton/MIC corruption...

Video related:

https://media.8ch.net/file_store/5cc83f291b0b2e0fb45e87aed2035874642a80c4bcff075a74360350bfcf0329.gif

Blogger Unknown September 11, 2018 3:31 PM  

"As a strong supporter of Israel, I have to admit that if it eventually turns out that Israel was, in fact, responsible for attacking New York City and Washington DC, I don't know if I will ever be able to forgive them for failing to launch a few missiles at Hollywood as well."

Funny guy! This cracked me up.

Blogger Miguel September 11, 2018 3:33 PM  

Sorry for the previous "unknown". That's from me Miguel/Lucas.

Blogger tz September 11, 2018 3:49 PM  

While I'd love them to take out silly valley, if they can also take out Denver (the big blue pimple of the rockies), I'd support them.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan September 11, 2018 3:52 PM  

No way 19 Arabs kept their mouths shut, and it was Arabs who hijacked the planes and crashed them. So these Arabs probably let other Arabs in on the "secret" the secret got back to the Israelis and the Israelis kept their mouths shut. And Mr. Bush when he got the news while sitting in that classroom new he was the stooge for war.

Blogger Servant of the Chief September 11, 2018 3:54 PM  

Speaking of Q, can someone explain to me the antipathy Q followers have for Alex Jones? I have heard everything from him being a patsy to being a bought and paid for cabal member with even the likes of Neonrevolt buying into it, even though that is the most absurd characterisation of AJ on the entire internet and that is saying something. Is it just because AJ is sceptical of Q and they're angry over it or is there something more there?

As for 9/11's true culprit, I'm still on Team Blame-Arabia until the Israeli connection gets proven.

Blogger English Tom September 11, 2018 4:08 PM  

@Noah B the Savage Gardener

Re: Mohammed Atta's passport found in the ruins.

I heard it was a special edition, titanium coated industrial strength model (obviously he would have paid extra for the upgrade!)

Blogger Will September 11, 2018 4:09 PM  

@53 @60:
Various parts and assemblies of the aircraft were found scattered inside the structure, such as landing gear.

IIRC, that section of the outer wall was the only portion that had not yet been armored. Coincidental?

"Flight 77, flying at 530 mph (853 km/h, 237 m/s, or 460 knots)..." I don't think this can be correct. Not at sea level. Air density would not allow this type of (civilian) aircraft to fly this fast. That sounds more like cruising altitude speed, although I think it should be capable of a bit more speed at those levels.

The aircraft was not flying nap-of-the-earth, but was in a slight dive attitude.
"Ground effect" would have no bearing on the aircraft, as it was not low enough to enter this envelope until it actually impacted the building.

Those who disbelieve that aircraft were used just sound foolish. Aircraft of all sizes have been used for this sort of attack (ground structures and ships) since at least WW2, and possibly WW1. Hell, Joe Kennedy Jr was killed flying one out of England. It blew up before they got the radio control system functioning so he could bail out.
Joe was supposedly doing this to earn a medal to help his political aspirations after the war. Oops!

Blogger English Tom September 11, 2018 4:11 PM  

@Dirk Manly

Re: perps identified so quickly

Within the first hour, before the towers fell, ALL the (((media))) Were stating something like: this looks like the work of the Bin Laden organisation. Repetition, repetition, repetition. Remember: tell the lie often enough and it becomes the truth.

Blogger Looking Glass September 11, 2018 4:15 PM  

@91 Shimshon

Interesting point about that funding. Given the realities of "American Foreign Aid", almost all of it was some sort of graft payment. 300 million goes a long ways in most of the world, so I'm sure Mossad doesn't want to pay off people themselves. (A bit like how Military Aid to Israel is mostly just a line-item funding of Boeing, Lockheed and Raytheon.)

It looks more & more like every faction of the Elites touched 9/11 because every major faction got a huge chunk of money as a result. It ends up acting as a massive Insurance Fraud scheme for the banking & building factions; biggest money heist in human history for the MIC with Wars; other factions get their geo-political enemies removed by American Military might.

But it all required massive system support within the USA. Looks like a much bigger version of the Kennedy Assassination, in many ways. Hell, it was probably the same people that set it up.

Blogger Damelon Brinn September 11, 2018 4:16 PM  

@98, You answered your own question: they suspect he's either a pasty or paid opposition. You may disagree, but that's the reason they don't like him.

Blogger Dirk Manly September 11, 2018 4:19 PM  

@89

"The media did an excellent job right from the start of sidelining all alternative theories as wackadoodle nonsense. Which is strange, when you think about it, since as long as Bush was president, 9/11 Truthers were almost entirely leftists of the anti-war, "Bush lied" variety. Odd that the left-wing media gave their comrades so little help."

Obviously to protect an even bigger lie.

Blogger Dirk Manly September 11, 2018 4:24 PM  

@94

""As a strong supporter of Israel, I have to admit that if it eventually turns out that Israel was, in fact, responsible for attacking New York City and Washington DC, I don't know if I will ever be able to forgive them for failing to launch a few missiles at Hollywood as well."

And harm their U.S. base of operations for their propaganda arm?

Blogger Damelon Brinn September 11, 2018 4:28 PM  

One thing I remember about that day is that none of the experts I saw on TV while the towers were in flames seemed worried that the towers could fall. Now, to me, living where buildings are rarely more than three stories tall, that seemed crazy. Skyscrapers look to me like they should tip over just because. But all these city people and architects and engineers talked about it as a difficult fire emergency. I think there was even some discussion of how difficult cleanup or demolition would be later, because the assumption was that would be necessary. Then suddenly they collapsed. Some people remembered what they had believed about the chance of collapse beforehand, but skepticism was quickly shouted down and relegated to conpsiracy theorists over the next couple days.

Blogger Dirk Manly September 11, 2018 4:32 PM  

The steel doesn't have to melt, it just has to lose it's temper.

Look at the video of the 1967 Detroit Riots, and you'll find collapsed steel frames that held up only 2-story buildings, not 30-50 more stories with heavy glass exteriors.

Blogger Uncle John's Band September 11, 2018 4:36 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Uncle John's Band September 11, 2018 4:41 PM  

@88

"Incredible theories need very large amounts of very credible support."

Why are the 19 box cutters and bin Laden exempt from this standard? Because CNN told you they did it? Can you share your credibility metric for assessing future false flags?

"As a start, we must separate 9/11 causation and the subsequent Iraq invasion later."

This is retarded. If middle east disruption was one of the desired outcomes, then they are linked. This is as inane as telling an investigator to ignore motive.

"There are too many credible scenarios where a panicked elite to use 9/11 as a reason to support an invasion of Iraq to use Iraq as support for a 9/11 theory."

This is gibberish.

"There were quite a few sets of independent eyes on the evidence immediately after 9/11 so we have to start with that evidence."

What "independent" eyes? Are they “credible” too? Were these the individuals being arrested celebrating?

"sounds like flat earthing it to me."

We’ve seen the value of your thinking.

Blogger The Kurgan September 11, 2018 4:45 PM  

I remember watching it as it was happening and when the first building came down I was like WTF?!?
When the second one came down the same way I reaslised there and then that whatever was really happening, it wasn’t what was purported to be happening.

Knowledge of civil engineering with a thesis in demolition will do that.

Blogger Looking Glass September 11, 2018 5:21 PM  

@106 Damelon Brinn

That much fuel with the fire suppression systems destroyed (from the impact) is going to functionally act like a blast furnace. Most things will start to melt under the heat.

Which is why the Steel bit was beyond stupid. (One might say, intentional misdirection.) The towers were mostly cement. Dropping the 100,000+ tons of weight above the impact floors an inch would convert all of that potential energy into kinetic energy. Thousands of pounds of jet fuel & aluminum would burn for a very long time, more than long enough to turn the support structure into really soft material.

It was actually a fiendishly clever attack vector, which actually suggests the Jihadists were just easily played hitmen.

Blogger Unknown September 11, 2018 5:23 PM  

Ryan Dawson and Corbett Report basically are the only people who intelligently put the 9/11 truth together in a concise, easy to understand, non-kooky manner.
I give all the nuts a miss, but these guys do a great job.
Dawson has a 5 hour 9/11 movie on Vimeo that's unmissable if you want the in-depth story.

Blogger Unknown September 11, 2018 5:32 PM  

Yes the core of trooferism is that Muslims and Robert Mueller/FBI/Justice are innocent and Israel is guilty.

The REAL 9/11 conspiracy is that plenty of people (including James Woods the actor who reported a dry run to the FBI) and FBI field agents noted these people and they should have been arrested but that Robert Mueller and the same pozzed treasonous FBI/Justice leadership that is trying to overthrow Trump prevented them from being arrested and then covered up the extent of Saudi involvement.

Blogger Crew September 11, 2018 5:44 PM  

Thousands of pounds of jet fuel & aluminum would burn for a very long time, more than long enough to turn the support structure into really soft material.

Have a look at this image and tell me how WTC7 must have collapsed from fire?

https://wakeup-world.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/What-Happened-to-World-Trade-Centre-Building-7-on-911-Fire-768x576.jpg

Further, let us suppose that the fireball did not burn off most of the jet fuel and the resultant fire weakened the support structure in the floor segment (ie, several floors) where the fire was, such that the floors above collapsed onto the floors below.

What is going to happen to the speed of that upper segment as each floor below fails because of the stress of supporting something it normally can support?

Blogger Looking Glass September 11, 2018 5:52 PM  

Unknown wrote:Yes the core of trooferism is that Muslims and Robert Mueller/FBI/Justice are innocent and Israel is guilty.

The REAL 9/11 conspiracy is that plenty of people (including James Woods the actor who reported a dry run to the FBI) and FBI field agents noted these people and they should have been arrested but that Robert Mueller and the same pozzed treasonous FBI/Justice leadership that is trying to overthrow Trump prevented them from being arrested and then covered up the extent of Saudi involvement.


When Jamie Gorelick ended up on the 9/11 Commission, you knew the fix was in.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Jamie_Gorelick

She was the point-man for segmenting specific parts of the intelligence sharing, which allowed a whole lot more things to happen than just 9/11. Oddly enough, in the position that Rod Rosenstein currently holds. Funny, that.

Also unsurprisingly, every place she's shown up since has had serious problems with swamp-like corruption. Really makes you think.

Blogger Rough Carrigan September 11, 2018 5:54 PM  

Without inside knowledge, it would take a pretty massive IQ to figure out that the attacks on 9-11 were going to happen, wouldn't it?

"We were there to document the event."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OAhBCXilks

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 11, 2018 5:59 PM  

Why didn't just the tops of the towers fall off? This is fucking stupid, arguing endlessly. NIST could only replicate that scenario after heavily doctoring the test parameters. And the building was designed to take a plane impact, presumably planes with fuel in them.

Blogger Rough Carrigan September 11, 2018 5:59 PM  

#98. Also, Alex Jones once claimed to have spoken to Q and to have inside knowledge. No one believes him.

Blogger Damelon Brinn September 11, 2018 6:02 PM  

Yes the core of trooferism is that Muslims and Robert Mueller/FBI/Justice are innocent and Israel is guilty.

That's not what I've ever gotten from it. The more I looked into it, the more it looked like a joint Bush/CIA/Mossad/Saud operation, using jihadi Muslims as patsies (yes, flying real planes into the towers). Of course, if you suggest any Jewish involvement *at all*, many react like you're trying to put all the blame on all Israel and exonerate everyone else, but that's their malfunction.

Blogger Looking Glass September 11, 2018 6:05 PM  

@114 Crew

WTC7 blew up, most likely because someone in the Secret Service (it was their largest field office) was storing high explosives. And probably in the closets next to the support structures.

Now, that one is from a decade plus of hindsight after they finally admitted the "freefall event".

From the NIST's summary: "Eventually, a girder on Floor 13 lost its connection to a critical column, Column 79, that provided support for the long floor spans on the east side of the building."

That actually puts it around the offices of the SEC, of all things, from what I can tell. That's why when they couldn't get the fire under control on the important floors, someone gave the order to clear out, as they knew some of the stuff stored in there. There's probably 2-3 people that actually know what happened, but it's better for the government (and the idiots storing explosives in office buildings) for everything to go a certain way.

It also floods the zone with enough FUD that you'll never sort through it all.

Blogger FP September 11, 2018 6:13 PM  

Trump in 2001 on the WTC:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt-ldMj9y9w&app=desktop

Blogger Looking Glass September 11, 2018 6:14 PM  

On WTC7, it's actually possible the fire damage really did take it down, but the Feds were covering up the fact a few of the things they were storing there did blow up. They might have thought, in 2001, that it actually went down from something they were storing, but it actually turned out to have been a design flaw.

There's a very real chance some, now retired, Secret Service agent give the biggest sigh of relief after the NIST report because it turned out he really didn't blow up a building in New York from terribly decision making.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 11, 2018 6:20 PM  

"Odd that the left-wing media gave their comrades so little help."

Monoparty. No heretics allowed... to either side.

"But, being a nuclear power with a higher than average IQ"

For the region, certainly, otherwise not so much. As far as the higher IQs of the planners being more pertinent than the average of the people... it doesn't typically work out that way in real life. Populations have a way of absorbing deviant affect. Even if it did work that way, we're only talking maybe 103-107 average IQs among that class unless you massage the data. The difference from the rest of the region is much more stark.

Certainly they could have been involved. Almost certainly they were involved, but whether it was at some level of instigation, or them sitting on their thumbs with info they didn't feel like sharing, or even just making plans to take advantage of it as soon as TSHTF, that's the hard determination to make.

Blogger Emmett Fitz-Hume September 11, 2018 6:25 PM  

@66

I had never heard of Philip Marshall until today. That whole murder/suicide has become the Go-to method. It would be laughable if it weren't so horrific.

Marshall even warned people that his life was in danger.

They line it up with the Paranoid Conspiracy Believer angle and they seal it with the Murder/Suicide which is so horrific (and shocking, especially to the close family and community) that it 'sells' the Crazy theme and overloads the brain of those people close to the situation who would otherwise be critical. And it hands over a perpetrator right away, tied up in a bow (and they ain't running anywhere).

Whoever this cabal is, be it the Israelis, the Rothschilds, the Saudis, the Illuminati, whatever, they are evil. Pure evil.

Blogger DraveckysHumerus September 11, 2018 6:43 PM  

Here is the land-clearing disaster waiting for a command. Many US nuclear plants have spent fuel cooking, er cooling, in storage cells protected only by tin roofs, literally. At least one cell of a given storage unit easily could be struck by a light aircraft including a remote-controlled drone carrying iron weights which would displace rods from the cell upwards and out and these would begin to burn uncontrollably and ignite proximate cells. A relative is an award-winning individual at a prominent nuke plant and we have worked through the possibilities for attack/false flag together. That's when the sh!t gets real and we believe it's not far off time-wise.

Blogger Dirk Manly September 11, 2018 6:52 PM  

DraveckysHumerus

DISPERSING nuclear fuel does not make it hotter, it lowers the temp.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 11, 2018 7:08 PM  

Dirk Manly wrote:DISPERSING nuclear fuel does not make it hotter, it lowers the temp.
Except the water is both a neutron moderator and a coolant. Some of the secondary reaction by-products may be pyrophoric as well.

Blogger Remonstrances September 11, 2018 7:11 PM  

Dirk Manly wrote:DraveckysHumerus

DISPERSING nuclear fuel does not make it hotter, it lowers the temp.


Yes, but uranium (typical reactor fuel) will burn. It would have to be ignited, but it's not that hard.

Blogger Dirk Manly September 11, 2018 7:15 PM  

Even perfectly executed, I don't think Dravecky's plan would work. And burning uranium... it's ALREADY manufactured in ceramic (i.e. oxide) form. It won't burn.

Blogger Avalanche September 11, 2018 7:43 PM  

@82 "It is only used for a small part of the engine because titanium is very expensive and it is quite soft.

So, where is it? Where is the reassembled plane parts the NTSB ALWAYS DOES AFTER VERY CRASH! Hell, with the plane that went down off LI Sound they're STILL adding parts found in the water!

Where is the Shanksville plane investigation reassembly? Why was part of it found a mile away? It fell off BEFORE the crash? How did THAT happen?! Why did the Shankville Coroner say he went out to the site as a coroner, and immediately became not one, because there were no bodies, no body parts, nothing that required his skill?

As with ALL systemic events or things, you can possibly debunk, or cast aside, bits of it; but when you try to discount the whole corpus of evidence -- or likely evidence -- on the basis of the one or two things you decide can't be it; then you're falling for misinformation or DIS-information!

Has there even been a plane crash, ever, where the entire plane 'disassembled' itself into pieces small enough for Donnie Rumsfeld to abandon his office and pick up by hand? Ever been a plane as tall as a building disappear into a small, less than half the height of the plane, hole -- and leave NOTHING outside the "specially hardened against bombs" walls? Nothing except a couple pieces of metal small enough to carry?

To determine what the whole 'animal' is, you have to look at all the parts of the animal -- not merely one small part of its locomotion system.

Blogger Vaughan Williams September 11, 2018 7:46 PM  

One thing I never saw explained. The day before 9/11, (maybe 2 or 3 days before) I saw posts from Al Jazeera going WTF, the FBI went into their colocation sites and seized all their servers. Multiple sites, and almost 100 servers. It may not have been Al Jazeera, but it was some type of very active and influential Arabic news media network on the web. Then 9/11 happened and never heard a word about it.

Anyone know about this or remember it?

Blogger Vaughan Williams September 11, 2018 7:48 PM  

Looking back now after 17 years, best I can think is, this was done to prevent the Arab disavowals from contradicting the Narrative of Arab involvement.

Blogger Avalanche September 11, 2018 7:49 PM  

@100 "IIRC, that section of the outer wall was the only portion that had not yet been armored. Coincidental?"

You haven't done your research, you've got most of it upside-down. Start here: the Pentagon section the plane hit was the ONLY ONE HARDENED, not the only one NOT hardened!

Blogger Avalanche September 11, 2018 7:50 PM  

@100 ""Flight 77, flying at 530 mph (853 km/h, 237 m/s, or 460 knots)..." I don't think this can be correct. Not at sea level. Air density would not allow this type of (civilian) aircraft to fly this fast."

Oh yeah, take THAT up with NIST! That's the official govt story...

Blogger Michael Maier September 11, 2018 7:50 PM  

I wonder how many folks that worked monitoring the security cams at the Pentagon are still alive today?

Blogger DraveckysHumerus September 11, 2018 7:53 PM  

Flight 93 was downed in a field without breaking apart or being struck by a missile or some other aerial body. The bits found after impact were both small-sized and lightweight and most significantly local to the crash site. Its physics are uncontroversial except by loonies. What occurred aboard and behind the scenes is open to interpretation, as others have said, the only story we know cannot be true and correct is the official narrative.

Zero need to screw with the terminal physics of Flight 93.

Blogger Vaughan Williams September 11, 2018 7:58 PM  

Look at how Alex Jones got his start. Look at the John Joseph Gray standoff, and how Alex Jones lied to them to get an interview, then gave intelligence about their defences to the government. If Alex Jones has changed for the better, then good. But that event in the year 2000 is part of his history, and I keep it in mind when other information about AJ comes up.

Blogger Avalanche September 11, 2018 7:59 PM  


@109 "Why are the 19 box cutters ... exempt from this standard? "

WHY are NINE of them still alive?! And yet the FBI has LEFT THEM on the list(s) of hijackers?!?

Blogger Avalanche September 11, 2018 8:06 PM  

@111 "Thousands of pounds of jet fuel & aluminum would burn for a very long time"

Another 'done no research, but I "know"? The jet fuel burned out almost immediately NOT for a very long time! And if you look, one of the planes burned a helluva lot of that fuel OUTSIDE the building!

Maybe do some reading here, and see what you've been missing. Or watch some of their vids.

https://www.ae911truth.org/evidence/technical-articles

Blogger Vaughan Williams September 11, 2018 8:12 PM  

@English Tom wrote:
Within the first hour, before the towers fell, ALL the (((media))) Were stating something like: this looks like the work of the Bin Laden organisation. Repetition, repetition, repetition. Remember: tell the lie often enough and it becomes the truth.


That fits with the report I saw about Al Jazeera having all 100 of its servers in the USA seized the day before 9/11. They said by the FBI, but who really knows who did it. The website where I saw the report is now offline, and I don't think the article ever made it out of the moderation queue in time to be permanently archived.

Blogger Avalanche September 11, 2018 8:12 PM  

@117 " NIST could only replicate that scenario after heavily doctoring the test parameters."

And somewhere in this video -- well worth your time to become familiar with the govt lies -- they show the rep. of NIST telling the assembled news and researchers that there was NO evidence of bombs. He is then asked, did you LOOK for evidence of bombs? And he admits (NOT even shamefaced!), that no, they did NOT look for it!

9/11: Explosive Evidence - Experts Speak Out

Blogger Unknown September 11, 2018 8:12 PM  

"That's not what I've ever gotten from it. The more I looked into it, the more it looked like a joint Bush/CIA/Mossad/Saud operation, using jihadi Muslims as patsies (yes, flying real planes into the towers). Of course, if you suggest any Jewish involvement *at all*, many react like you're trying to put all the blame on all Israel and exonerate everyone else, but that's their malfunction."

James Woods and the FBI field agent in Phoenix did not see Israelis doing a dry run he saw Arab Muslims doing a dry run. The real conspiracy is that the same people trying to overthrow Trump blocked their arrest and covered up the Saudi role in bribing our government. The same people responsible for 9/11 not being thwarted are involved in trying to overthrow Trump now. When you speak of trooferism instead of the real conspiracy you are aiding and abetting the God Emperor's enemies. Trooferism's origins may very well glow in the dark since trooferism muddies the water of the REAL conspiracy, the conspiracy that if exposed would drain the swamp and destroy Trump's enemies.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 11, 2018 9:01 PM  

Avalanche wrote:Another 'done no research, but I "know"? The jet fuel burned out almost immediately NOT for a very long time!
"Immediately" is a lie. It is true the kerosene was burned out before the towers fell. And the combustible carpets, papers, furniture, and even paint, kept the fire going.


BTW, Avalanche, paint chips are not snack food.

Blogger SciVo September 11, 2018 9:06 PM  

In the end, I just don't respect our covert agencies enough to think that any of them are capable of pulling off something like 9/11 without leaving a trail of evidence so wide that it could even be followed by someone that is mostly a life-support system for good camera-ready hair.

I could, however, believe that they would do a ham-fisted cover-up after the fact for some retarded "reason" that mostly comes down to their erectile dysfunction treatment of choice being the power trip of knowing things that other people don't.

Clearly, my application of Occam's Razor is based on my near-total contempt for practically every dimension of the Derp State and its human components. YMMV

Blogger Chris Mallory September 11, 2018 9:36 PM  

Unknown wrote:in Phoenix did not see Israelis doing a dry run he saw Arab Muslims

No Israelis look like Arabs? None of them could pretend to be Muslim?

The stooges could not have been doing the dry run "on their own" with a few Israeli art students, movers, or janitors watching over them?

Blogger Avalanche September 11, 2018 9:37 PM  

@125 "we have worked through the possibilities for attack/false flag together"

One always worrisome thing at the Hanford Site ("Nuclear Reservation") out in Washington State was that all their 'safety' planning and prep work NEVER covered sabotage or terrorism. Granted, that was 20 years ago when I was there -- but it was well after the Bhopal disaster -- and sabotage was always a possibility.

Blogger Avalanche September 11, 2018 9:52 PM  

@136 "Flight 93 was downed in a field without breaking apart or being struck by a missile or some other aerial body. The bits found after impact were both small-sized and lightweight and most significantly local to the crash site."

...
"The most insane disinformation of all alleges a 100-ton Boeing 757-200 Jetliner crashed into the ground to create a tiny 20-feet diameter hole without even creating a debris field."

Source: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=8948

Where's the plane?! HOW can it possible have been reduced to "small-sized and lightweight" -- and where ARE those small and lightweight pieces? Why do the pix show NOTHING?!

"The actual 20-feet diameter hole is incapable of accommodating even the two massive 6-ton Rolls Royce engines without even mentioning the 155-feet long Jetliner." (same source URL)


Or this?

"This crash was different. There was no wreckage, no bodies, and no noise."
- Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller [1]

"I was amazed because it did not, in any way, shape, or form, look like a plane crash."
- Patrick Madigan, commander of the Somerset barracks
of the Pennsylvania State Police [3]

...
And although Flight 93 was reportedly "heavily laden with jet fuel" when it crashed, investigators found no contamination from jet fuel in the soil and ground water around the site.
...
Flight 93 weighed 127 tons when it crashed, according to New York Times reporter and author Jere Longman. [5] And yet numerous individuals, including some of the first people to arrive on the scene, have described the lack of anything resembling plane wreckage at the alleged crash site.

Assistant Fire Chief Rick King, who drove the first fire truck to reach the site, recalled thinking when he arrived: "Where is this plane? And where are the people?" King saw "thousands of tiny pieces scattered around--bits of metal, insulation, wiring--but no fuselage, no wings, only a smoking crater and charred earth." [6] He sent his men into the woods to search for the fuselage, but they kept coming back and telling him, "Rick, there's nothing." [7]

Homer Barron, who also arrived shortly after the crash, has recalled, "It didn't look like a plane crash, because there was nothing that looked like a plane." He added: "I [have] never seen anything like it. Just like a big pile of charcoal." [8]

Jon Meyer, the first reporter on the scene, said he was "able to get right up to the edge of the crater" where Flight 93 supposedly hit the ground. However, he described: "All I saw was a crater filled with small, charred plane parts. Nothing that would even tell you that it was the plane. ... There were no suitcases, no recognizable plane parts, no body parts." [9] Local coroner Wallace Miller, who was also one of the first people to arrive, said the crater looked "like someone took a scrap truck, dug a 10-foot ditch, and dumped all this trash into it." [10]

Frank Monaco of the Pennsylvania State Police said the site looked "like a trash heap." There was "nothing but tiny pieces of debris," he said. "It's just littered with small pieces." [11] According to Monaco, "It didn't look like a plane crash." [12] Scott Spangler, one of the first photographers on the scene, said, "I was looking for anything that said tail, wing, plane, metal." But, he recalled, "There was nothing, just this pit." "I didn't think I was in the right place," he commented. [13]

source: http://911blogger.com/news/2013-02-19/shanksville-pennsylvania-911-mysterious-plane-crash-site-without-plane

Blogger Avalanche September 11, 2018 9:56 PM  

@143 "combustible carpets, papers, furniture, and even paint, kept the fire going."

And you think paper and furniture fires burned hot enough -- and long enough -- to melt or soften steel?!

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 11, 2018 10:05 PM  

Snidely, look at all the pictures of other steel buildings burning for hours without collapsing. There are several of them.

Blogger Cassie September 11, 2018 10:46 PM  

To anyone who thinks that planes could not have hit the twin towers just because there weren’t remnants of crashed planes located at Ground Zero:

My fiancé showed me this video and had this to say in response to you (I’m leaving this comment for him since he doesn’t have a google account):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2FXIGCEiD7U

That plane was traveling 600 miles an hour when it hit the reactor tower mock up.

Notice it disintegrated.

Blogger LP999-16 September 11, 2018 10:56 PM  

Hmm, its possible.

If it were 25000 or 30000 killed this country would still remain neoconned.

The country learned nothing, leaving the borders open, enabling epic civic stupidity and trust in a lying MSM.

Blogger Cassie September 11, 2018 11:01 PM  

Correction that actually gives more evidence to his point: the plane in that video was going 480 mph when it crashed and disintegrated. The planes that hit the twin towers on average fly around 625 mph. So, if 480 mph was enough to disintegrate the plane in that video when it crashed, then 625 mph would certainly be plenty to do the same.

Blogger Were-Puppy September 11, 2018 11:04 PM  

@98 Servant of the Chief
Speaking of Q, can someone explain to me the antipathy Q followers have for Alex Jones?
---

AJ is anti-Q . He has tried to slyly coopt it before by claiming one of his sources is Q, but not by outright saying that. He will call the guy "Our Q", and that sort of thing.

At some point Q dropped a post that most took to mean Corsi, and that is where the "Paytriots" blew up. When Q dropped that post, you had Corsi out claiming Q was promoting communism.

It's similar to AJ and Pizza Gate. AJ decided that Pizza Gate was fake.

It was around this time that I saw the light as AJ is at the best a limited hangout.

Q also calls out the LLC behind Infowars recently.

AJ is still fun, just keep your eyes open and realize he will also hide things in his reporting.

Blogger Ronin F9 September 11, 2018 11:15 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:And the combustible carpets, papers, furniture, and even paint, kept the fire going.

All of the contents of the WTC have to meet strict fire code standards. It has to burn at low temperatures so it doesn't weaken the steel. The "gravity driven collapse caused by fire fires" doesn't explain why the buildings and everything in it - the people, the computers, desks, chairs, cabinets, carpets, doors, toilets, concrete floors - exploded into dust in MIDAIR. It doesn't explain why over 1,000 people were VAPORIZED and can not be identified by DNA sample. It doesn't explain the molybdenum gas found emanating from the debris pile. Molybdenum boils at 8,300 degrees Fahrenheit. Kerosene and office paper can not generate 8,300 degree heat. Its impossible.

Blogger GammaCatch September 11, 2018 11:33 PM  

They want so badly to hate Western Culture and The Jews that they will make up anything, I guess. Some form of LARPing? Funny how the narrative is never really about Islam. Where is Todd Beamer when you need him?

Blogger Didas Kalos September 12, 2018 12:45 AM  

625 mph? Really!?

Blogger Die Fledermaus September 12, 2018 1:11 AM  

"The Jews did it" has been around since about day 1 of the truther movement and will continue to be there, since, well, it's a pretty standard go-to for everything (We've done the OKC bombing too didn't we ? with one of them fancy micro nukes). Not offended - kinda used to it and it's honestly a little bit of ego boosting. But did we ? I've been trying to contemplate this as an option.

You would never sell me on the idea that the "official", public facing Israeli government had anything to do with this, they are simply too much of petty politicians, whose only concern is their political survival and measly job perks, and that was true for the Sharon cabinet of that time as it is true with the current little girl pretending to be a Prime Minister that we have now. They are not capable of this.

No, if you put it on the doorstep of anyone in Israel, that would have to be our version of the Deep State, which is (somewhat oddly) sometimes referred to here as the "Junta" - an odd mix of the Military institute, the intellgience community, the Judicinal branch and the media held by (gradually loosening) family and friendship bonds reaching back to the old, Ashkenazi socialist roots of the state.

Would they do ? I find it hard to see the benefit. They are creatures who value the stability of a constant, low-volume conflict. It keeps the military and the intelligence funded. It gives the media what to write about and lets the Judicinal system do what the fuck they want uninterrupted by pesky governments. The 2001 attacks had, by large, a destabilizing effect. It has been generaly not good to them. The chain reaction brought us Iraq, Obama, and the Arab "Spring.

The military and intelligence bodies have been weakened. They optics on the recent conflicts since have been generally bad, and personal composition of the military have been changing with the Junta keeping losing ground. American funding, while increasing, has also been becoming more restrictive - the latest weapons deal between Obama and Bibi has been the epitome of that. It basically diverts all the money back into the American Weapons industries, lowering military spending in our own Military industries, which wither on the vine. The Media market has fragmented. the Israeli Broadcasting Authority, a long standing vestige of the Junta which even had its own private tax system, has been unceremoniously shut down last year.

The governments we've been electing since the 2000's, with few exceptions, have been decidebly more right wing, more religious and less Junta-driven. The Judicinal system - basically the last ivory tower - is under increasing pressure to allow more political (translate: Non-Junta) involvement in its composition. It have not been good years for the Junta.

Could it have been a miscalculation then ? certainly. Our intelligence community in particular have shown already they are capable of some incredible acts of stupidity to go along with some rather impressive feats. If they did it, The 9/11 attacks could probably slide into both categories. I still fail to see an obvious "Why". Turn the west on the Arabs ? why would they want that ? The Arabs is part of what keeps them in the gravy.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 12, 2018 1:17 AM  

Ronin F9 wrote:Kerosene and office paper can not generate 8,300 degree heat. Its impossible.
You know less than nothing about the matter, because the little you think you know is wrong.
Toxic metal fumes, like molybdenum do not require boiling of the metal. The fumes are present even while the metal is still solid. You would know that if you could remember that chemistry class. A friend of mine was killed by zinc fumes generated by a fire of less than 1000 degrees.

As an experienced blacksmith I can indeed fuel a fire with nothing but paper and an air blast that will reach 4000 degrees and set steel ON FIRE. My son built a forge fueled with kerosene that does this easily. He built it especially because of morons like you.
You believe this bullshit because you WANT to believe this bullshit. Even a passing familiarity with metallurgical chemistry would deflate all your super secret knowledge.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 12, 2018 1:50 AM  

Why don't steel buildings collapse regularly then, if they are all filled with the same types of stuff as the WTC?

Blogger LP999-16 September 12, 2018 1:51 AM  

40 is correct RE: Patriot Act.

"Since" 9/11, the Patriot Act, the NDAA (or whatever) is nothing but more illegal BS surveillance statist worship, more fear, obey, shop.

153 Hi Were P, let our health be well!

Confirmed, I heard such for myself that AJ is hesitant, reluctant, not fond of Q to not interested in Q. I heard Q is microchip, is that so? Glad PJW and Roosh talked.

WerePuppy: join oneway? There are wampums: Linda9.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 12, 2018 2:30 AM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:Why don't steel buildings collapse regularly then, if they are all filled with the same types of stuff as the WTC?
The support columns of the WTC were enormous hollow tubes.Very few buildings are constructed this way. When the updraft got established, they essentially acted as a blast source, as in a blast furnace. There is a video out on the internet of burning steel pouring out of the 2nd building just before the collapse, which is exactly what you would expect to happen in this scenario.
Steel itself will act as a fuel. While difficult to ignite, once it's burning, iron generates an enormous amount of heat. I believe the additional heat of the burning iron was what triggered the final collapse.

Blogger Jamie-R September 12, 2018 2:42 AM  

People have to realise the concept of self-interest is a very serious one for The Tribe. Arabs are not competitors, they barely register a blip on their survival radar. The Iranians are somewhat of an issue, but it's Europe & America that present the major issue of hegemony, or, threat to their way of #MerchantLyfe. In the end, Christians want to talk about that country being attacked & Jesus saving them, you have to come to the conclusion that they are well hated by that point. It's a mindset that many don't have, deals with motivations & a true superiority belief, where all others are consumer drones & sheep, to be used how best to serve self-interest. Doesn't matter who completely understands it, some of them aren't even that self-aware of their own pathologies, what matters is that the train has definitely left the station. Europeans are slowly starting to figure out they're a target. At least the ones in America.

Blogger wreckage September 12, 2018 3:02 AM  

@161. Oxygen-acetylene torch. People think they melt steel. They don't. They heat the steel and then apply high-pressure oxygen to ignite the steel. I am not a university-qualified engineer, but I have trained and worked in small-scale fabrication, manufacture, and engineering. A lot of what people say about steel's basic properties is completely incorrect.

And you've hit the nail on the head. Steel will ignite and burn with a good enough oxygen supply. You can melt steel in your backyard with some home-made coal and a hand-cranked fan, let alone aircraft fuel and a giant backdraft. You can burn it with a torch that amounts to a short copper tube with two taps for getting the fuel mix right.

Here's what a redneck backyard forge looks like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe0kHVBiKok

Here's an acetylene torch. It ignites steel. You can run one off barbecue gas and bottled oxygen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oYs2T6shZc

Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 12, 2018 3:42 AM  

"And you think paper and furniture fires burned hot enough -- and long enough -- to melt or soften steel?!"

Clearly you have no firefighting experience. That's absolutely possible and would be my normal expectation.

"It doesn't explain the molybdenum gas found emanating from the debris pile."

Molybdenum, you mean that thing normally alloyed with other metals to harden them? All that has to happen is the metal it's alloyed with doesn't even have to to melt or burn -- sufficient thermal deformation and you'll get at least some gas. On top of that, anyone who thinks there would be no metal fires in that kind of disaster is tripping.

Snidely is absolutely correct.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 12, 2018 3:45 AM  

Iron will "burn" at room temperature, just not fast enough to generate a self-sustaining oxidation reaction.

Blogger camperbot September 12, 2018 6:01 AM  

Don't think in terms of countries. It wasn't Israel, it was Netanyahu and Barak using a rogue Mossad group with the assistance of some neocons including the Bushes and Cheney, and all financed by the Saudis on the order of the Rothchilds. The elites don't think in terms of countries - they all belong to the same sick cult and all worship the same master.

The towers turned to dust in place on 9/11. 1.25m tons of building collapsing makes a large pile of rubble. There wasn't one. 1.25m tons of building falling into the basement would have pulverized the mall and parking garages. They were fine. 1.25m tons of building hitting the ground makes a thud. There wasn't one. See Dr Judy Wood's work for more information.

Blogger eugenius September 12, 2018 7:31 AM  

Israel attacking (((Hollywood))).
Yeah, right!

Blogger Avalanche September 12, 2018 7:45 AM  

@157 "You would never sell me on the idea that the "official", public facing Israeli government had anything to do with this, they are simply too much of petty politicians, whose only concern is their political survival and measly job perks, and that was true for the Sharon cabinet of that time as it is true with the current little girl pretending to be a Prime Minister that we have now. They are not capable of this. "

Here, try it like this? Does it still seems completely impossible?

You would never sell me on the idea that the "official", public facing American government had anything to do with this, they are simply too much of petty politicians, whose only concern is their political survival and measly job perks, and that was true for the {Obama} cabinet of that time as it is true with the current {Obama leftovers and Dem hacks} pretending to be {an investigative team doing an honest and legal investigation of made-up sh|t} that we have now. They are not capable of this.


See any difference? Or are you just naive?

Blogger Avalanche September 12, 2018 8:05 AM  

@158 "My son built a forge fueled with kerosene"

So, you're suggesting the WTCs and Bldg 7 were built like FORGES?!? Or are you suggesting moly. FUMES caused the buildings to fall? Or the steel to weaken? Yes of course, toxic fumes can kill PEOPLE -- but knock down (into their own footprints, at freefall or nearly freefall acceleration?!) three steel and cement buildings?!

Hmmm, your son's private forge with an air blaster does not seem to equate in any fashion with what went on in NYC on 9/11!

And, to expand on Animal Mom's "other steel buildings burning for hours without collapsing": here are some examples with good pix:

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/fires.html

Philly: One Meridian Plaza: The fire started on the 22nd floor and raged for 18 hours, gutting eight floors ...

LA: The First Interstate Bank Fire: ... the blaze, which lasted for 3 1/2 hours. ... the fire gutted offices from the 12th to the 16th floor ... structural damage from the fire: In spite of the total burnout of four and a half floors, there was no damage to the main structural members and only minor damage to one secondary beam and a small number of floor pans....

Caracas Tower Fire: fire ... spread to more than 26 floors, and burned for more than 17 hours.

The Beijing Mandarin Oriental Hotel Fire: The nearly completed 520-foot-tall skyscraper in Beijing caught fire around 8:00 pm, was engulfed within 20 minutes, and burned for at least 3 hours until midnight. Despite the fact that the fire extended across all of the floors for a period of time and burned out of control for hours, no large portion of the structure collapsed.

Elsewhere:
Chechnya's tallest building, a luxury hotel, caught fire and burned for 29 hours before finally being put out. ... The building is completely destroyed, however it did not collapse. ... with little to no fire collapsed at free fall speed into its own footprint in just 7 hours. The 29 hour blaze of Chechnya's building left the building still standing. This should raise some interesting questions...

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-the-Twin-Towers-are-the-only-skyscrapers-that-have-fallen-due-to-fire

Is it true that the Twin Towers are the only skyscrapers that have fallen due to fire?
It is true, and fires have burned in 35–100+story buildings for between 2 and 48 hours. One, in a particularly tall building burned intensely for 48 hours (ground-based firefighter equipment could not reach those heights) without structural damage to the steel. Another building burned for 24 hours, a raging fire gutting a dozen floors and exposing all of the steel, also sustained no structural damage.
...
In spites of almost 100 "skyscraper" fires, many raging infernos lasting hours and days obliterating everything but the steel superstructure, no building has ever fallen from fire with the exceptions of New York City Ground Zero towers 1, 2 and building 7 on September eleventh, 2001.

Blogger Avalanche September 12, 2018 8:07 AM  

@163 "Steel will ignite and burn with a good enough oxygen supply."

Which was supplied to the WTC Towers and Bldg 7 just how?

Blogger Avalanche September 12, 2018 8:21 AM  

@164 "And you think paper and furniture fires burned hot enough -- and long enough -- to melt or soften steel?!"
Clearly you have no firefighting experience. That's absolutely possible and would be my normal expectation.
"

Do you believe (apparently without actually reading any of their discussions or peer-reviewed papers...) your own (?) firefighter's 'knowledge' ABOVE 3,019 Architects & Engineers who have actually looked into this?

And 'Firefighters for 911 Truth' joined up with 'Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth'...
http://www1.ae911truth.org/home/293-firefighters-for-911-truth-teams-up-with-architects-a-engineers-major-911-myths-exposed-in-two-night-presentation.html
Their old website:
http://web.archive.org/web/20110911032318/firefightersfor911truth.org/

But your normal (firefighter?) expectations conflict with these firefighters who were there and others who have looked into this?

Blogger CynicalMan September 12, 2018 9:03 AM  

If we are to consider that 9/11 was an Israeli job then we must consider that the 1993 attack on the WTC was also an Israeli operation. And why not consider the possibility that WWII was also and Jewish operation designed as an impetus to the creation of Isreal.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 12, 2018 9:31 AM  

"Which was supplied to the WTC Towers and Bldg 7 just how?"

The entire atmosphere of the planet, Avalanche. It doesn't have to be pure oxygen to sustain a reaction if the temperature's high enough.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 12, 2018 9:33 AM  

"Do you believe (apparently without actually reading any of their discussions or peer-reviewed papers...) your own (?) firefighter's 'knowledge' ABOVE 3,019 Architects & Engineers who have actually looked into this?"

I believe what I've physically seen happen above what you're claiming some amount of other people say.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 12, 2018 9:35 AM  

I expect you're oversimplifying what people are actually saying. I also expect that what you're saying is not agreed on by all the people you're claiming, but rather by some percentage of them who happened to be more vocal where you happened to be looking at some particular time.

Blogger flyingtiger September 12, 2018 9:42 AM  

#79 Amen. No one cares how fast an airliner flies. They want to know what is the most economical speed the AC flies. Someone told me that the first ac that hit the towers was flying 50 MPH faster than the speed listed in Jane's aircraft. According to witnesses, he started the dive at the north tip of Manhattan Island. It took him about 40 seconds to cover the distance. Any damage to the airframe would have been minimal.
The year before I was having too much fun crashing my airplanes into monuments on flight simulator. The hard part of flying is the take off and landing. Up in the air it is easy. The twin towers stood out like sore thumbs and the Pentagon is easy to spot. Minimal flying skill is all you need.

Blogger Hunsdon September 12, 2018 10:24 AM  

Cui bono?

Blogger Homesteader September 12, 2018 10:40 AM  

CynicalMan September 12, 2018 9:03 AM wrote:


"If we are to consider that 9/11 was an Israeli job then we must consider that the 1993 attack on the WTC was also an Israeli operation. And why not consider the possibility that WWII was also and Jewish operation designed as an impetus to the creation of Isreal."

Um...about that..

You've got your timelines crossed. The creation of a homeland in Palestine was WW 1, not 2...see The Balfour Agreement...

As for WW2?

https://rense.com/general45/zzo.htm

Blogger Were-Puppy September 12, 2018 11:38 AM  

@172 CynicalMan
If we are to consider that 9/11 was an Israeli job then we must consider that the 1993 attack on the WTC was also an Israeli operation. And why not consider the possibility that WWII was also and Jewish operation designed as an impetus to the creation of Isreal.
---

Ever heard of the Rothschilds?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd September 12, 2018 1:38 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:Why don't steel buildings collapse regularly then, if they are all filled with the same types of stuff as the WTC?

Sprinkler systems?

Were the WTC sprinkler systems fully functional after the impacts?

Blogger kennymac September 12, 2018 2:48 PM  

“:Why don't steel buildings collapse regularly then, if they are all filled with the same types of stuff as the WTC”
were they all built the same way th WTC towers were?

Blogger Ronin F9 September 12, 2018 6:47 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:A friend of mine was killed by zinc fumes generated by a fire of less than 1000 degrees.

So what? 1000 degrees is very close to the boiling point of Zinc. Molybdenum has a boiling point nearly 7000 degrees more than Zinc. Molten and vaporized molybdenum requires extremely high temperatures that are can not be generated by office building fires.

Snidely Whiplash wrote:My son built a forge

An open plan office building is not a purpose built forge. In fact office buildings are designed to be the opposite.


Snidely Whiplash wrote:The support columns of the WTC were enormous hollow tubes.Very few buildings are constructed this way. When the updraft got established, they essentially acted as a blast source, as in a blast furnace.

Total bullshit. The central support structure was not a "hollow tube". First of all it was an incredibly dense patchwork of thick steel girders. The grid was designed to carry SIX TIMES the entire weight of the building and all of its contents in a hurricane. Second, almost all the shafts terminated at the 44th and 78 floor sky lobbies. Those air and elevator shafts that did not -there were only two express elevators a one freight elevator that transversed the entire height of the building - had MULTIPLE louvers in place designed to prevent the shafts from acting as a chimney. That were closed on 9/11 like they were supposed to be during a fire. The fires in the North Tower were so weak that the NYFD crews that reached the impact zone radioed in that they could knock them out with two lines.

Blogger S1AL September 12, 2018 8:21 PM  

"Molybdenum has a boiling point nearly 7000 degrees more than Zinc."

Look, I know most people didn't go through forge safety education, but you could find the flaw in this statement with 5 seconds on the search engine of your choice.

Hint: the key term is "metal fume fever"

Blogger Rough Carrigan September 12, 2018 9:47 PM  

Watch the 2 minute video below from the start but pay special attention at 1:10 to 1:13. Something is missing, isn't it? What does this mean?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq6zFSPO9C4

Blogger LP999-16 September 12, 2018 10:24 PM  

https://infogalactic.com/info/9/11_Truth_movement

https://infogalactic.com/info/9/11_Truth_movement#Architects_.26_Engineers_for_9.2F11_Truth

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Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 13, 2018 1:02 AM  

The WTC had a weird structure for buildings at that time. Much of the load bearing materials were on the outside of the structure, like a hollow flexible tube. Makes it more resistant to things like earthquakes, wind forces, and other lateral forces, but probably also allowed the support structure to burn easily, as well as being cut right through on the side of impact.

Probably also had something to do with the buildings collapsing straight down, since vertical impact down the middle of the building is logically more of a weak point of that sort of structure (than an entirely core-supported one) once it gets going. You'd pretty much expect the support structure to stack up and follow down the middle, especially since much of it was destroyed by the plane's impact.

I don't really question how it happened. I'm sure there was some degree of fudging by various individuals on various subjects, but meh. On the other hand there's a load of strange stuff going on as to exactly why and who was involved with it happening.

In short,

"Total bullshit. The central support structure was not a "hollow tube"."

Right, because the entire building structure was. The outer support system is literally called a "shower curtain rod" or "tube" by engineers. Much of the purpose of the central support structure you're referring to was to hold the elevator shafts, as well as provide some redundancy. The redundant support systems were why the buildings didn't begin to collapse immediately on impact.

"First of all it was an incredibly dense patchwork of thick steel girders."

Yeah, at ground level and for the first few stories, above that not so much, as compared to the tolerances involved.

"The fires in the North Tower were so weak that the NYFD crews that reached the impact zone radioed in that they could knock them out with two lines."

That tends to happen when much of your combustibles are jet fuel which would be almost if not entirely burnt off in around a minute, taking all of the other combustibles in the impact zone with them. Especially when you consider that the jet fuel rupturing out of tanks while moving at around 445 knots wouldn't be lying around in puddles or pools, much of it would be aerosolized or continue on through and out the other side of the structure.

On top of that, yeah, a plane (relatively) is light and won't do much damage. Three to five hundred tons of liquid fuel moving at five hundred MPH or more out of wing tanks, on the other hand, is somewhat similar to throwing a blade-shaped multi-hundred-ton brick through the building.

Blogger Avalanche September 13, 2018 9:05 AM  

@173 "The entire atmosphere of the planet, Avalanche. It doesn't have to be pure oxygen to sustain a reaction if the temperature's high enough."

Except: how do you get the temperature 'high enough' for long enough in a focused-enough spot on multiple beams in three buildings, in an OPEN system?!

Why do folks above describe how they can melt or set on fire steel support beams with "sufficient" heat and "enough" focused applied oxygen to specific beams; and it must've been a lot of beams to bring down at three skyscrapers at freefall or near-freefall acceleration,from only fires, into their own footprint, no? (Even NIST had to backtrack and acknowledge freefall acceleration.... OOPSIE!)



@163 Steel will ignite and burn with a good enough oxygen supply. You can melt steel in your backyard with some home-made coal and a hand-cranked fan, let alone aircraft fuel and a giant backdraft. You can burn it with a torch that amounts to a short copper tube with two taps for getting the fuel mix right.

Who was using a hand-cranked fan on 9/11? And just how big were these three fans? And coal? The towers had coal?! Where did this 'giant backdraft' come from before the "massive super-hot" fire that burned for an hour to weaken specific beams? I don't notice you saying how long the "massive super-hot" fires had to burn on several tens of steel beams -- and get them all heated up to the right temps at the exact same moments in time to allow the perfect "controlled" demolition falls of three skyscrapers... Or, who had the two taps on (each of) the three towers to get the fuel mix exactly right to force the necessary beams to all fail at exactly the right moment, and all in synchrony? Magical, eh? And all just happenstance caused by planes (well, except Bldg 7)?!


@167 Here's an acetylene torch. It ignites steel. You can run one off barbecue gas and bottled oxygen

Must've been one helluva oxy bottle to do THREE skyscrapers eh? Oh, sorry, THREE hella oxy bottles. Didn't see them anywhere, did you? Oh, or do you think plain-old atmospheric oxy levels "somehow" let these alleged torches burn with enough heat, long enough, and on exactly the specific beams necessary in THREE buildings, one of which was not hit by a jet full of fuel?! You get, don't you, that the fuel was gone within a very short time? There was no 'fuel tank with taps' feeding the right mix across the entire hour/coupla hours in three buildings, on the exact right beams, before the buildings fell.

Blogger Avalanche September 13, 2018 9:06 AM  

And then, the ongoing problem: how is it that NO BUILDING EVER -- never before and never after -- has fallen, at freefall or near-freefall acceleration, from fires, into its own footprint?!

How is it NIST claims that it was 'office material fires' that led to the collapses -- but then refuses to answer a FOIA request by several skyscraper-building engineers in A&E911Truth who are still designing and building skyscrapers on how THEY can prevent 'falling from fire' in their new skyscrapers? NIST won't help them AVOID this miraculous, never-before and never-after, brand-new cause of building collapses? NIST cited national security: Really?! So, letting engineers design and build skyscrapers WITHOUT knowledge of (what NIST claims) led to these three collapses, means they cannot build to PREVENT them?


Maybe quit grasping desperately for "how" someone could have made a big enough hand-cranked fan (really?!) or placed bottle(s) of oxy, or somehow there was created a huge backdraft BEFORE the fires got so big and hot as to create one?! I point out again: one of the planes burnt most of its fuel OUTSIDE the tower... So how did THAT fuel somehow soften the steel in the center section of the building?

How did allegedly softened beams above the 70th floor result in all the lower floors collapsing, in perfect synchrony to keep the Towers upright as they fell exactly into their own footprints -- AT FREEFALL ACCELERATION?! No pancaking floors. Even NIST had to drop the pancaking idiocy!

The third building do not HAVE plane fuel (and the 'fuel tank' allegedly in Building 7 could NOT have surgically weakened the SINGLE beam NIST claims started the perfect controlled-demo fall of Bldg 7. A&E911Truth has actually tricked some engineers by showing them the video of Bldg 7 falling (in perfect mimicry?) of a pretty much every controlled demo ever and asked them what the video shows. The engineers reasonably say: "controlled demo, obviously" -- and only THEN get told: "Bldg 7; 9/11; no plane hit." That's how several got awakened and joined A&E911Truth!

Go do the research! Go question your *beliefs* about what mighta-coulda-musta happened and see if maybe you've been told lies.

Blogger Avalanche September 13, 2018 9:59 AM  

@187 "since vertical impact down the middle of the building"

Aw geez Azure -- the planes did NOT 'cut' the entire center support systems of either tower.

Or, then there's Bldg 7. Building 7 had no central support beams -- it was "normal" construction -- but it still fell down, at freefall or near-freefall acceleration into its own footprint. NIST says ONE column over near one corner of Bldg 7 "weakened" and that resulted in an entirely symmetrical fall into its footprint ... Well, they don't SAY the last -- they quit at: this single column(79) failed, which started the collapse -- and then NIST shuts up completely about how one column failing over near a corner led to a controlled-demo fall of the 47-story bldg... Huh.

For the two towers to have fallen symmetrically and at free fall or nearly freefall acceleration, ALL the support beams must've been cut, all the way down, for 70+ floors! And ALL of them must've been cut or weakened enough to fail at the same moment, and at the same floor(s) sequentially? The Towers and Bldg 7 did not fall over -- they fell down. Straight down. If the loss of support were not symmetrical, the tower(s) would have fallen OVER, right?


http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/core.html

http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=39&MMN_position=385:385



It's WAY more complicated that you postulate. The truth is still all mixed in with misinfo and DISinfo -- but there IS solid scientific, engineering, and construction/"deconstruction" info to be found.

We don't (yet?) have the truth. We may never have the whole truth. However, on many parts of what happened, you can find parts of the truth through plain old science. 'Building a forge' large and hot enough to take down 100+-story buildings is misinfo. Can't be anything else! IF you know what's been worked out already...

If you can't find a way to reconcile 'fires you can make in your backyard' somehow scaled up to skyscraper size; then address the freefall acceleration problem. Even NIST grudgingly and partially acknowledges that. Leave off "what caused" the collapse, and see how the video-taped collapse(s) fit into gravity and physics. You'll find the "it's jes' ain't so!" all over that too. And physics will help you keep the mis- and DIS- at bay.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 13, 2018 3:18 PM  

"Except: how do you get the temperature 'high enough' for long enough in a focused-enough spot on multiple beams in three buildings, in an OPEN system?!"

Are you familiar with PVT dynamics? You do realize it doesn't have to liquefy everything, right? Even a few hundred degrees change can significantly affect structures on that scale. It's like I'm arguing with a wall. I have nothing else I need to say to that entire comment.

"How is it NIST claims that it was 'office material fires' that led to the collapses -- but then refuses to answer a FOIA request by several skyscraper-building engineers in A&E911Truth who are still designing and building skyscrapers on how THEY can prevent 'falling from fire' in their new skyscrapers?"

This is an outright lie. I don't know where you got it. See:
https://911-engineers.blogspot.com/2007_12_30_archive.html
https://911-engineers.blogspot.com/2007_10_21_archive.html

"the planes did NOT 'cut' the entire center support systems of either tower."

Never said they did. You're being hysterical again.

"For the two towers to have fallen symmetrically and at free fall or nearly freefall acceleration, ALL the support beams must've been cut, all the way down, for 70+ floors! And ALL of them must've been cut or weakened enough to fail at the same moment"

You haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about.

"If you can't find a way to reconcile 'fires you can make in your backyard' somehow scaled up to skyscraper size"

Again, not the faintest idea what you're talking about. I'm done with you.

Blogger Ronin F9 September 13, 2018 5:49 PM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:like a hollow flexible tube

Anyone that watches this video of the steel frame construction of the WTC Towers -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udgKBYOhcbY

- and uses the words "hollow tube" to describe those towers, that were designed to withstand MULTIPLE jetliner impacts, is being purposely dishonest, disingenuous, and deceitful.

S1AL wrote:Hint: the key term is "metal fume fever"

Gas is gas. Fumes are airborne particulates and solids. Gaseous states and solid states are completely different, as is the liquid state. Molten (liquid) and vaporized (gas) molybdenum, which requires intense temperatures far beyond office fires to create, were detected in quantity at the debris site.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 13, 2018 9:48 PM  

"and uses the words "hollow tube" to describe those towers, that were designed to withstand MULTIPLE jetliner impacts, is being purposely dishonest, disingenuous, and deceitful."

You're a moron. If you can't understand what he was saying, don't try to pick apart the individual words for what you can potentially perceive to be semantic inaccuracies.

"Gaseous states and solid states are completely different, as is the liquid state."

P.

V.

T.

I rest my case, you're a moron.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 13, 2018 9:55 PM  

The engineers who designed and built those buildings literally called that sort of structure a "shower curtain tube". Which I am now repeating. Obviously it's not entirely hollow, this is basic expectations -- what I'd expect a non-moron to understand intuitively.

Blogger Meimou September 16, 2018 5:53 AM  

The engineers who designed and built thoses buildings also said they were designed to withstand multiple hits from multiple planes, and yes, the jet fuel from those planes were taken into account.

Blogger Meimou September 16, 2018 6:04 AM  

SciVoSeptember
In the end, I just don't respect our covert agencies enough to think that any of them are capable of pulling off something like 9/11 without leaving a trail of evidence so wide that it could even be followed by someone that is mostly a life-support system for good camera-ready hair.

1. I don't think highly enough of a rag tag group of Arabs without state support operating from a cave bypassing every layer of protection of most powerful nation of earth.

2. There was a trail of evidence a mile wide, like a video of WTC 1 and 2 exploding, audio and two witnesses putting Dick Cheney in command of NORRAD of 911 and refusing to an intercept of the planes

Clearly, my application of Occam's Razor is based on my near-total contempt for practically every dimension of the Derp State and its human components. YMMV

This doesn't sound like you using Occums Razor:

I could, however, believe that they would do a ham-fisted cover-up after the fact for some retarded "reason" that mostly comes down to their erectile dysfunction treatment of choice being the power trip of knowing things that other people don't.

Blogger Meimou September 16, 2018 6:32 AM  

@Snidly Wiplash
@Unknown
@Looking Glass
@Dirk Manly

You people shilling for the OS can regurgitate all the pancake nonsense all you want but you provide no plausible explanation for why WTC 1 and 2 exploded.

Even if the twin towers were built like blast furnaces(kek), even if a plane flying into a building could duplicate the conditions of a controlled burn the uppermost parts of the towers were pulverized and ejected outward. 17 years later and you Parsons ignore that or you are so brainwashed that the OS takes priority over what your saw.

WTC1 Exploding Super Slow motion 400fps HQ
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OmMursSY_E4

Blogger Blooger September 17, 2018 9:38 AM  

Some rabbit holes are too deep, even for me...

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