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Saturday, September 22, 2018

DramaGate

Bounding Into Comics urges everyone to stop the madness:
With coordinated attacks coming from all sides, it’s more critical than ever that #Comicsgate members keep their eye on the prize and don’t turn into #dramaqueens who favor sniping and infighting over solidarity. Sadly, for those supporting this consumer revolt in the name of good comic books, and for the high profile figures within it, recent history may not be on our side.

On September 3rd, 2018, Alt-Hero publisher Vox Day announced his prospective Comicsgate imprint right here on Bounding Into Comics, and it would be an insult to diarrhea to say that the Comicsgate community understandably lost their crap in response. Whether Vox Day was trying to do something he deemed to be positive for the movement, or he was just trying to co-opt it a la Sad Puppies…or both, is mostly irrelevant; the fallout from his move was quite real, particularly when it came to author and occasional BIC contributor Jon Del Arroz.... Guilt by association? Juvenile stunts? Sounds a little SJW, doesn’t it? That’s because these are the brushes that crowd loves to paint with, and this is the same crowd who is smiling with glee at seeing Comicsgate infighting because they equate it with weakness.

With someone like Vox Day, it’s easy to understand this reaction. He has a history of co-opting movements, and he’s far more apt just to burn down the house rather than try to treat the infestation, which is what many longtime comic book fans don’t want to see. However, in this case Vox didn’t do that. He gave up on the Comics Gate imprint and is sticking to publishing popular stories through Arkhaven Comics and Dark Legion Comics.
I tend to agree that it's important to stay focused on the business rather than the tempests and teapots, but I also have to admit that I'm really not concerned about this one way or another. Things will probably play out as they usually do, those who talk will talk and those who act will act. This ComicsGate nonsense hasn't slowed down our release schedule in the slightest or interfered with the Alt-Hero:Q campaign. The only real ComicsGate-related problem for us has been the latest SJW attack at Amazon; the four digital editions of Gun Ghoul there are still blocked for absolutely no legitimate reason.

As I pointed out to a very irate Will Caligan last night, this isn't a showstopper and the print edition of Gun Ghoul is available at Arkhaven Direct, at Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and even on Amazon itself. You'll get the best price at Arkhaven. But it is the sort of ridiculous thing that has inspired the President of the United States to consider lowering the antitrust boom on the social media giants.

I would, however, like to correct one common misapprehension: I never co-opted Sad Puppies. To the contrary, I was the architect of the Sad Puppies most notorious success and at no point in time was there ever any conflict between the Sad Puppies and me. If you look more closely, you'll notice that none of the four leaders of the Sad Puppies, from Larry to Kate, have ever made a single accusation on that score. I don't intend to say any more than that, except to reiterate an absolute fact: I did not co-opt Sad Puppies and anyone who claims I did in any way, shape, or form is wrong.

They are, however, correct to observe that I believe the optimal response to a converged organization is to burn it down. Because that's what is going to happen anyhow, one is merely helping to speed the inevitable process along.

Labels: ,

51 Comments:

Blogger InformationMerchant September 22, 2018 5:19 PM  

I noticed the Gun Ghouls were still down today, I was about to ask when I saw this. Is there any way to make progress on that score?

Blogger Unknown September 22, 2018 5:24 PM  

Can we help on the Gun Ghouls problem?

Also, anyone who claims you co-opted Sad Puppies is not merely wrong, he is LYING!

Blogger Salt September 22, 2018 5:25 PM  

#Comicsgate is the off cousin of daddy #Gamergate. Junior just cannot learn.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 22, 2018 5:26 PM  

No, you didn't co-opt Sad Puppies, you agreed and Amplified.

I would like to say that you're killing Marvel and DC and Diamond, but they're doing it to themselves.

It's not that hard, you make the comics people want to buy, not the ones your no-talent hacks want to make. You wholesale them in a way that keeps your vendors in business. You don't vampirize your distribution channel so you can feed useless eaters who don't make money. If your business model is broken, take the hit and re-engineer it so that it works to make you money.


It seems these people have forgotten that they are in an industry. They are in business to make money, not to change the thinking of comix buyers. Until they can get their minds right, they are doomed. In 10 years, DC will be what Archie was though the 80s and 90s, a mid-list reprint house, trying to relive the glory days of Batman.
Marvel may not even exist as a comics publisher by then.

Blogger Shimshon September 22, 2018 5:27 PM  

...Comicsgate community understandably lost their crap...
With someone like Vox Day, it’s easy to understand this reaction.

The above quotes of the author sounds like he himself is a bit guilty of sniping (to use his own word) and piling on the drama.

Arkhaven could be bigger than DC and Marvel combined, and Two-Face and fellow travelers (is DC Green among them?) will STILL be pushing drivel like the above.

Blogger Daniele Grech Pereira September 22, 2018 5:28 PM  

I was just getting into Gin Ghoul and now Will is being persecuted. Look forward to even greater enthusiasm from me, on future projects as well. At this point, anything being shut down on Amazon is probably something worth looking into.

Blogger InformationMerchant September 22, 2018 5:42 PM  

@5 Yes, it's full of that. The article being written after a parody was released is also quite amusing.

All the stuff from the original meltdown to their attacks on Jon didn't merit an article, but the parody is crossing the line.

If I didn't consider Comicsgaters crabs in a bucket, I'd probably care more about it. As long as Bounding into Comics carries on as it was before the article, they're still the best site of their kind.

Blogger Lance E September 22, 2018 6:06 PM  

When will these people get it through their thick skulls that you cannot "treat the infestation"? The termites have come and gone, the whole frame is rotted, the foundation is sinking, and squatters have taken up residence in what used to be the living room.

... but we can still fix it! Really guys! Just give us more superchat donations!

Blogger Bellomy September 22, 2018 6:20 PM  

You have no history of co-opting movements. You specifically separated yourself from the Sad Puppies movement for that very reason.

Blogger VD September 22, 2018 6:35 PM  

You have no history of co-opting movements. You specifically separated yourself from the Sad Puppies movement for that very reason.

It's a bit ironic that I've done the same thing and separated myself again. And three years from now, when Arkhaven and Dark Legion are successful and no one remembers either Splatto Comics or ALL CAPS Comics, people will probably claim I co-opted them too.

People always forget that I am invited in. I don't co-opt anything, I simply leave when I see things are not as they need to be. It's not my fault that others happen to agree and leave with me.

Blogger Avalanche September 22, 2018 6:38 PM  

@8 "When will these people get it through their thick skulls that you cannot "treat the infestation"? The termites have come and gone, the whole frame is rotted, the foundation is sinking, and squatters have taken up residence in what used to be the living room.

... but we can still fix it! Really guys! Just give us more superchat donations!"

THIS would make an excellent basis for a graphic ... er ... short story? Business lessons from infrastructure screw-ups?

Anonymous Anonymous September 22, 2018 6:38 PM  

Sad Puppies was a noble but ineffective attempt at detente.

From my reading that hasn't been your style for a long time, if ever?

Rabid Puppies was more effective offense and thus far more successful.

Anyone calling that co-opting may be mistaken or lying or stupid, but they're definitely fucked up somehow.

Blogger VD September 22, 2018 6:45 PM  

Sad Puppies was a noble but ineffective attempt at detente.

Sad Puppies IV was. Each of the three previous Sad Puppies campaigns had a different focus. I had nothing to do with Sad Puppies I or II, and the primary difference between those two and Sad Puppies III was my involvement. Sad Puppies IV was led by Sarah Hoyt, then by Brad Torgerson.

Blogger Mark Stoval September 22, 2018 6:57 PM  

Vox, I was reading you back before this blog. Over that time, other than your family, the best thing you have done is the publishing ventures.

Win there and you will have helped Western Civilization a lot.

My 2 cents anyway. And yes, I know that this blog itself has been a major help; I just go with the publishing ventures for many reasons.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan September 22, 2018 6:58 PM  

I found GG blocked on Scamazon went to CH bought the paper copy

Blogger Dave September 22, 2018 7:18 PM  

I had borrowed Gun Ghouls #1-4 on KU and already returned them, otherwise I would inquire as to their whereabouts.

Speaking of KU, I finished VESSEL OF VENUS today.

WTF?

Blogger Taqiyyotomist September 22, 2018 7:21 PM  

Summer before last I got a $25 gift card for Amazon. I bought a sci-fi, can't remember which, but I think it was John C. Wright, and SJWAL.

They took they money, and then I got neither, digitally or otherwise. They sent me an e-mail saying they couldn't fulfill the order, and that I (ME!!) had to go back to Amazon and find another seller.

I never tried to make it good with them. It seemed to me it would be like trying to fight city hall. I just don't buy media from them any more. Speakers? Electric razors? Sure. Because I'm sure even their shipping department is full of blue hair and multiple piercings and atheism.

I didn't even complain to them, or here, until now, when it happened. They took my money (a gift card, but still), and said "no stuff, thanks for the cash.". And I'm still sure it was because of the political content of the order, and some purple mohawk said "screw him".

Blogger Lovekraft September 22, 2018 7:39 PM  

I just think that Vox is being Vox. It's his style. Free to do so. Part of the overall diversity of opinion.

Not a big deal if some people don't like his style.

Blogger Dave September 22, 2018 7:41 PM  

@17 do you have an account with Amazon? If so, you probably have a gift card balance of $25 in your account.

Myself, I keep a continuous gift card balance of hundreds of dollars and continue to add to it as I receive gift cards. They don't expire.

Blogger VD September 22, 2018 7:46 PM  

I bought a sci-fi, can't remember which, but I think it was John C. Wright, and SJWAL.

Email me. I'll send you the epubs. We will take care of our customers even if Amazon doesn't.

Blogger Matthew September 22, 2018 7:57 PM  

VD wrote:People always forget that I am invited in. I don't co-opt anything, I simply leave when I see things are not as they need to be. It's not my fault that others happen to agree and leave with me.

"This party is lame. I'm out." Twenty minutes later, everyone's at an impromptu rave in a parking lot.

Blogger Matthew September 22, 2018 8:02 PM  

Dave wrote:

Speaking of KU, I finished VESSEL OF VENUS today.

WTF?


Mr. Cain has a companion novel in the works, provisionally titled GOD KINGS OF IAPETUS. Hope that helps.

Blogger James Dixon September 22, 2018 8:12 PM  

> Arkhaven could be bigger than DC and Marvel combined,

Give it five years I so. I would have said 10 even a year ago, but the rate of both their collapse and Arkhaven's success have sped up.

Blogger Jew613 September 22, 2018 8:17 PM  

Vox does not co-opt. He comes in, does the hard work necessary to accomplish the goals. Then the talkers who enjoyed complaining but not doing whine Vox cop-opted. Its an excuse for their own failures and laziness.

Blogger The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey September 22, 2018 8:23 PM  

This is good news. What is happening is that the ComicsGate crowd (or whatever you call it) is in need of leadership. They don't know what that looks like.

Two-Faced and company are way behind the ball. A maxim of Vox Day is that the professionals worry about logistics, and Vox is far ahead of them here. Vox has a publishing house and multiple comics imprints and it's a going concern, already launched. He's got actual product!

Meanwhile Two-Faced et al. are carrying on like the comics-book version of shameless televangelists. And where is their product?

The future belongs to those who show up for it. Vox has already shown up.

He's going to win.

Blogger InformationMerchant September 22, 2018 8:25 PM  

Co-opt
/kəʊˈɒpt/
Offer whining people a solution to their problem.
"Vox Day is trying to co-opt comicsgate."


The cuckservative dictionary isn't quite as bad as the SJW dictionary, they seem to playing motte and bailey with existing definitions instead of completely different words.

Blogger Taqiyyotomist September 22, 2018 8:40 PM  

I will, Vox, thank you.

Dave, I do have an account still, it's how I buy most things (besides media), and no, the money is gone. They just said no, you can't have it, thanks for the scratch. I'm not too peeved about it, just shook my head.

Vox, I wanted SJWAL just to give it away. I don't need it myself.

Thank you for the free books on my Kindle account, BTW. Someday I'll own the hardcovers of TIA, Arts, and the whole Castalia collection, even though my eyes can't read real books any more. They are a treasure, and will go down in history as such. Can't find Arts in the local library, or any John C. Wright, for that matter. Plenty of Stephen King, Jordan Peterson, and JK Rowling, though. I'm guessing that if I had, and gave, the entire hardbound Castalia House collection to my local library, they'd burn it, and say "Those stories don't exist. What books? You never gave us any books."

That's where we're at, now.

Also, kudos to BIC for acknowledging that your publishing exists.

I follow comics now, because of you. Same with gaming. I don't even read comics or play games (much). I read the opposition gaming sites (which is all of them, as far as I can tell), just to see which sites allow comments on which hot-button (SJW) articles. Polygon is a hoot sometimes, when they somehow neglect to allow comments on an article. I found a site called DSOG, Dark Side of Gaming, that seems to be (and I've been wrong before) less-converged and more open to what the rest would call "toxic", which is to say, "truth". But I still read Polygon every day or so. Keep your enemies close. IGN. All the gaming sites. Rock Paper Shotgun. I was banned in a day for calling them Alt-Right once. Whoops. I guess that was a bad way to say, "I love how this site allows dissenting, non-SJW opinion and actual reasoned debate, and how refreshing that is!"

RPS banned me in A DAY. For complimenting their (what I saw as) Alt-Rightness. Whoops. Apparently I called them n-words. Or Nazis.

What I'm saying is that I follow ALL of this convergence and drama, and I don't even partake in comics or games. Or politics. I just read the comments. And I'm so glad, and blessed, that I have this ability to read all this insanity, and that I don't work at a company with a CoC and an HR department.

I think all of us who read and watch all of this convergence-related stuff, and can do so without punching their monitor or the first person they see on the street, are so much better prepared than the people who only watch television, movies, and their favorite music and sports stars.

/rant off

Thanks again, Vox and Ilk, for what you do.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 22, 2018 8:47 PM  

So Vox is really the Little Red Hen, and EVS, BiC and the rest are the pig, the cow and the rest who show up to help him eat the bread.

Blogger KG September 22, 2018 8:51 PM  

The comicsbaters went full retard on it and exposed their weak points to the enemy. End of story.

Blogger The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey September 22, 2018 8:54 PM  

If you haven't, order your Arkhaven tee-shirt today. This is going to be beautiful.

Blogger Lovekraft September 22, 2018 9:04 PM  

@ 27: taqqiyotomist

"I just read the comments."

I remember when I first started reading newspapers that I was interested in the editorial columns and submissions from the public the most. Perhaps a subconscious desire to find further clues behind the narrative.

Blogger Jack Amok September 22, 2018 9:43 PM  

But it is the sort of ridiculous thing that has inspired the President of the United States to consider lowering the antitrust boom on the social media giants.

One of the interesting side effects of coming under AT scrutiny is something called "retention." All corporate communications - of any form - are to be "retained" indefinitely and made available to the DOJ.

Also, if the company does something in restraint of trade, it doesn't matter if the action was taken with management's approval or even knowledge - if the company caused harm, even through the rogue actions of one low-level employee, it is liable.

Which means these companies would be on the hook for cleaning out their own SJWs and no longer allowing them to operate in the shadows.

Blogger JC September 22, 2018 10:04 PM  

I have got on board with a lot of what Vox has done but comics don't really interest me so I haven't been involved financially or otherwise. What I can see though is that Vox is writing and publishing comics and almost everyone else is just complaining. Complaining about SJWs and (absurdly) complaining about people making concrete attempts to create platforms free of SJWs.

Which is more effective?


Also they think the Dark Lord is burning down the house now??! Wait until EXTERMINATUS is declared.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore September 22, 2018 10:33 PM  

Oh shiznit! I just noticed that Castalia House has a "Homeschooling" category. Y'all gonna make a brutha' spend more money. It's all good.

Blogger Unknown September 22, 2018 11:09 PM  

where the hell have you been, Al?

Stickwick's astronomy stuff was one of Vox's first books.

Blogger GammaCatch September 22, 2018 11:53 PM  

The stupidity on the EVS side of the aisle is really stunning. The community is no longer full of serious people. The Issues are never discussed. The Left has wiped out every USA Narrative Cultural Staple that I came to know as a kid. Every last one. And all those people want to do is virtue signal by spitting on us or holding up the flag of inclusiveness with no sense of irony.

Blogger maniacprovost September 22, 2018 11:57 PM  

On a related note, let's say I want to buy all the Ember War novels digitally, what's the best way to do it? I'm not constitutionally opposed to using Amazon, but it seems to me that they don't deserve a 30% cut of the money. They certainly never tried very hard to market the books to me before.

It seems that they are not Amazon exclusives. It puzzles me that there is not some simple mechanism for authors to sell ebooks on their own websites.

Blogger Taqiyyotomist September 23, 2018 12:05 AM  

Jack, that's exactly why I was reading newspapers as a courier/concierge in Boston as a 19-year old.

I read the NYT, the Herald, the Globe, USA Today, and the WSJ every day, religiously, for years. All I ever did was turn to the middle, where the editorials and "letters to the editor" were. The rest of it was birdcage liner.

Then I got into Rush, and talk radio. Haven't listened to any of that in a decade. Don't want to. They're all a week or two behind.

Comment sections at specialty sites are a strange zeitgeist, and far ahead of the curve, as it were. We're just people talking. And electing people like Trump.

You know, we're just stupid hillbilly nazis with no cognitive skills whatsoever.

Blogger Were-Puppy September 23, 2018 12:08 AM  

@36 GammaCatch
The stupidity on the EVS side of the aisle is really stunning.
---

It is. I was ready to support EVS and some of those others before this nonsense broke out.

They are acting like a HS clique.

All of this over a useless term ComicsGate

Blogger Starboard September 23, 2018 12:31 AM  

Vox: "very irate Will Caligan last night"

I'm annoyed that various elements have been messing with Will Caligan. The "support the troops/thank you for your service" niceties only apply to good little drones. On the cynical sense of humor side, it's starting to sound like a good origin story.

The Gun Ghoul book just arrived from Castalia Direct and it looks really good. I look forward to reading it.

Blogger Tars Tarkas September 23, 2018 12:32 AM  

The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey wrote:This is good news. What is happening is that the ComicsGate crowd (or whatever you call it) is in need of leadership. They don't know what that looks like.

Old 2 face isn't the leader and apparently doesn't want to be a leader and couldn't be a leader even if he wanted to. He just wants to bilk superchats out of his viewers. (They are incredibly boring)

He views "ComicsGate" as a stupid YT streaming "show." He is too much of a child to be a leader even if he wanted to be.

The Sad Puppies campaign, from what I recall was pretty tame. They were too moderate. It was the Rabid Puppies campaign that really made a difference. Co-opt it? More like 'were it.'

Moderates will never learn.

Anonymous Anonymous September 23, 2018 1:36 AM  

My hard copy of Gun Ghoul arrived. Very cool.

Like someone else mentioned, the cover was bent by the packaging. This is not a complaint; I am happy to have it and it was easy to flatten out. I thought you should know that it’s not a one off.

Blogger Ray - SoCal September 23, 2018 1:47 AM  

It’s wrong they denied an award to Chuck Tingle. It just showed the biased nature of the award, and how out of touch it is with the majority of Sci Fi readers.

Sad and Rabid Puppies caused them to over react and show how far out of the main stream of Sci Fi readers they are.

Sad and Rabid Puppies complemented each other, and created a stronger outcome than either could have alone.

Blogger SirHamster September 23, 2018 1:57 AM  

Starboard wrote:The Gun Ghoul book just arrived from Castalia Direct and it looks really good. I look forward to reading it.

I enjoyed Gun Ghoul a lot. Action filled and the pacing felt good. No need to wait weeks for the next issue, either!


Resident Moron™ wrote:Like someone else mentioned, the cover was bent by the packaging. This is not a complaint; I am happy to have it and it was easy to flatten out. I thought you should know that it’s not a one off.

If anyone getting it from Aerio finds it too bent for their taste, contact them. They decided to replace my copy, and I think more feedback and tickets will help them prioritize improving their packaging.

Anonymous Anonymous September 23, 2018 2:18 AM  

I got mine via Amazon UK - the only available hard copy option for mainland Europe.

Blogger Unknown September 23, 2018 6:18 AM  


You’re a business man and they are messing with your business. Why wouldn’t you want to burn them down... also by being unethical and disparaging you and your brand every chance they get, they only increase your brand awareness. I’ve literally purchased comics from Arkhaven because they stopped producing decent content at the heavyweights and if they hate your content I have to check it out. Marvel and DC’s business no longer makes comics for me so I’ll move on to someone who does. :). Ps looking forward to seeing what all the fuss is about! Haven’t had a chance to read the ones that have come in yet.

Blogger VD September 23, 2018 6:39 AM  

I got mine via Amazon UK - the only available hard copy option for mainland Europe.

Actually, you can order through your local bookstore. Also, our direct store is expected to offer service to the UK and mainland Europe before December.

Blogger VD September 23, 2018 6:40 AM  

Why wouldn’t you want to burn them down.

Especially since it's not the first time. The ComicsGatekeepers don't understand that what is happening in comics is what is happening in games, in churches, in Linux, and everywhere else. It is war to the metaphorical knife; either you drive them out or they will drive you out.

Blogger Johnny September 23, 2018 8:23 AM  

>>The stupidity on the EVS side of the aisle is really stunning. The community is no longer full of serious people.

And >>They are acting like a HS clique.

And >>He is too much of a child...

My take also. From what I have seen, people of ordinary ability can run a business, but it does take a certain set of what can be called skill or personality characteristics to make it work. Regardless of this political stuff, I doubt EVS has the personality for it.

Blogger Cluebat September 23, 2018 3:46 PM  

Heh. Burn it down.
I receive alot of push-back when I promote this attitude with respect to the US economy.
-It is unsustainable.
-"Conservative" austerity is merely providing resources to the next Progressive administration.
-Choose either war, or a 5A solution. There will be no other.
I applaud the God-Emperor for his revitalization of our national economy, but it is transient, and will eventually fade away and be replaced by rejectionist history. It may well be too late to provide for a Constitutional solution, due to recent mass immigration. In that case it will be war.
All we can do is plan accordingly. I may not be alive when it happens, but I do have hope that my progeny will be on the winning side.
Always be prepared.

Blogger James Dixon September 24, 2018 12:44 PM  

> I applaud the God-Emperor for his revitalization of our national economy, but it is transient, and will eventually fade away and be replaced by rejectionist history. It may well be too late to provide for a Constitutional solution, due to recent mass immigration. In that case it will be war.

Of course. Trump is giving you time to prepare. Use it wisely.

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