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Saturday, December 08, 2018

Milo, Sargon banned by Patreon

They are just the latest. More will be coming soon.
Crowdfunding site Patreon this week banned the accounts of several controversial public figures, part of a wider push by tech companies to de-platform users linked to the alt-right and far right.

The accounts of British conspiracy theorist YouTuber Carl Benjamin, better known as Sargon of Akkad, and U.S. far-right political commentator James Allsup, were removed Thursday.

The fresh bans came a day after far-right activist Milo Yiannopoulos saw his account killed — just 24 hours after he set it up to fund a “magnificent 2019 comeback” tour. The former Breitbart editor was cut off because of his association with the far-right group Proud Boys, Patreon said.
On the plus side, Jordanetics has Jordan Peterson so worried about his collapsing right flank that he's decided to summon the powerful occult forces of the Ineffectual Dork Web and hold a marketing focus group meeting to determine what would be the best received response to these latest deplatformings.

Jordan B Peterson@jordanbpeterson
I'm doing everything I can to contact people in my circle and formulate a plan and response.

I don't know. That sounds a little too pathological to me. I understand that the best thing one can do when deplatformed is not to resist, complain, or attempt to act in concert with anyone else, but to simply focus on living a stalwart, meaningful, and high-quality individual life.

I repeat: build your own platforms. That's what we're doing already. More are on the way in the new year. Also, stop using and supporting converged platforms such as Patreon, Kickstarter, and IndieGoGo, where they actually make money off your business.

Labels: ,

79 Comments:

Blogger Daniel Babylon December 08, 2018 8:39 PM  

The first thing right-wingers need to do is to accept that censorship is not immoral. Instead of gasping and crying "How could they do this" they should note that nobody owes them a platform, and its their job to make sure their ideas are out there.

Blogger crescent wrench December 08, 2018 8:40 PM  

apparently Torba is starting to "get it".

Gab has created a patreon clone and is finalizing a payment processor that's unlikely to be dislodged given they have already been "black-listed".

Let's see how it comes out in practice, and whether it's properly deployed independently of the now moribund english social media "community".

Blogger Lazarus December 08, 2018 8:46 PM  

It would help if there was an alt-right multi-billionaire out there, but they seem to be lacking.

Blogger Jack Ward December 08, 2018 8:50 PM  

An extended manual/book on setting up your own crowdfunding system, your own platform etc. would probably be well received and might have some profit associated with it. Whatever might be revealed that isn't propitiatory. I would buy it. Of course, your personal time has to more valuable than gold right now.

Blogger tz December 08, 2018 8:51 PM  

On that pathology lies danger... (Dune mavens will see).

Blogger McJibblits December 08, 2018 8:57 PM  

Vox. What are your thoughts on dealing with Stripe, PayPal, SWIFT and the like? Especially with crypto in freefall, and nobody really wanting to hold it for very long? How do you gateway to the financial system other than crypto? Coinbase or BitPay, or other crypto processing systems might do the conversions quickly maybe. Just spitballin'. I'm no expert.

Blogger Daniel December 08, 2018 8:57 PM  

He follows up on the above tweet.

@jordanbpeterson Twitter users: Help me. I want to make a full list of those (right and left) who have been deplatformed by institutions (name those too).

"and left"

Hmm. Smells like Rule 2 to me.

Blogger dienw December 08, 2018 9:02 PM  

Daniel Babylon wrote:The first thing right-wingers need to do is to accept that censorship is not immoral. Instead of gasping and crying "How could they do this" they should note that nobody owes them a platform, and its their job to make sure their ideas are out there.

This is being done in co-operation with and with black budget funding by the Deep State of THE UNITED STATES (I am not shouting; that is the name of the current corporation by which we are ruled); it is unlawful by the standards of the original Constitution which we are gas-lighted into believing it still holds.

Just because oppression is done by the merchant princes does not excuse it from being reckoned immoral;for God condemned and judged the oppression by the merchant princes of the people of Israel.

Blogger tz December 08, 2018 9:06 PM  

Build your own platforms.
Be attacked and criticized for "doing it wrong".
Split off and hope dozens of small, obscure platforms will work, each catering to one segment of the alt-right instead of having any solidarity.

One can disagree and separate on good terms. But it requires men of substance.

Blogger Unknown December 08, 2018 9:07 PM  

Milo, Sargon, their biggest fault was seeking mainstream success and acceptance. They courted the MSM, gave interviews, they wanted to be celebrities. In the case of Milo he wanted a Fox TV gig, Sargon wants to be a British MP. Neither of them are far right, both of them are moral degenerates which explains their constant attention whoring. Saying that I like Milo for all his faults, Sargon OTOH is pseudo intellectual who couldn't out debate a mid wit twat like Richard Spencer.

Milo can still come back, he's a genuine talent. Sargon OTOH is a boring pseud who lucked out with Gamergate. Most of his YT videos are de-monetized, so losing 90%+ of his personal income coming in from Patreon will finish him.

Blogger VD December 08, 2018 9:14 PM  

Be attacked and criticized for "doing it wrong".

So what? We have people bitching about everything we do. Literally everything, right down to using the same blog I've used since 2003. This is why it is totally useless to even try to criticize us at this point; we ignore it all.

Split off and hope dozens of small, obscure platforms will work, each catering to one segment of the alt-right instead of having any solidarity.

Solidarity is useless and just slows you down. 4GW is the future in technology too. The giants of tomorrow will be the leanest, meanest rats of today. Big Tech is going to collapse, and collapse hard, eventually.

Blogger VD December 08, 2018 9:16 PM  

What are your thoughts on dealing with Stripe, PayPal, SWIFT and the like?

Don't trust them. And remember that China and Russia already have options available if you're really paranoid.

Blogger Daniel Babylon December 08, 2018 9:27 PM  

This is being done in co-operation with and with black budget funding by the Deep State of THE UNITED STATES

Was not aware. What's better in this scenario: de-funding or keeping the funds and employing anti-discrimination laws?

Blogger John December 08, 2018 9:31 PM  

@1 The first thing right-wingers need to do is to accept that censorship is not immoral.

Censorship CAN be immoral.
Just like trade CAN be immoral.
Just like killing CAN be immoral.

Applying a magical double standard to censor people who are exposing your friends' lies, corruption, and evil is in fact immoral.

Blogger Daniel Babylon December 08, 2018 9:37 PM  

John wrote:Censorship CAN be immoral.

Fair enough. But you still agree that nobody is entitled to equal representation from their political enemies?

Blogger Toris December 08, 2018 9:37 PM  

The problem is people like you don't even see the problem. It's more like a feudal aristocracy forcefully taking extra produce from the peasantry, aristos building a library for that peasantry (largely funded by taxed peasantry), aristocrats then proclaiming free speech and free enterprise with a smirk while burning all books from peasantry unsupportive of aristocracy.

Gasp away, peasants. It was never about being 'owed' a platform.

Blogger McJibblits December 08, 2018 9:40 PM  

Nice. Good info on the China/Russia bit. I had no idea. Good lookin' out.

Blogger Mad Italian December 08, 2018 9:43 PM  

Slightly OT, with FreeStartr dead how do we update our mailing address for AltHero and Swan Knight campaigns?

Blogger Zaklog the Great December 08, 2018 9:58 PM  

They've targeted ShaunKing of Akkad? Geez, they're just blasting anyone even vaguely on the right now. Pretty soon to have a Patreon account, you're going to be required to have a communist flag on your homepage.

Blogger John December 08, 2018 9:59 PM  

@15 Fair enough. But you still agree that nobody is entitled to equal representation from their political enemies?

Depends. Illegitimate or inherently traitorous political viewpoints are owed nothing: socialism, globalism, Israel Firstism, social justice, feminism, Judaism, Islam, etc.

However, there are plenty of cases where you ARE entitled to equal representation from your political enemies. For example: any national/public platform, any platform which purports to be apolitical or pan-ideological. If natives are merely debating policy within the pre-existing political framework of the nation-state, censorship on such platforms is immoral and an act of cold civil war. Of course, once one side engages in political warfare, they justify the other side doing it right back.

Blogger cmdrwyrm December 08, 2018 10:04 PM  

@13 Don't engage with anyone who starts talking about the US being a corporation, or admiralty flags, or names being in capital letters, or any outlandish nonsense like that.

It's a bunch of pseudolegal arguments concocted to justify not paying taxes, or child support, or whatever it is that the sovereign citizens, freedmen on the land, moorish sovereign citizens, or other group or guru has convinced its members to believe. Wesley Snipes fell in with some of them and became convinced he didn't have to pay taxes. He was wrong.

The real problem all of the super-geniuses who fall in with these shysters don't seem to get is that they're trying to use pseudo-legal arguments to convince what they call an illegitimate legal system that they're correct, using a bunch of completely unrelated statutes and codes. Even if they were correct, they wouldn't win, because the illegitimate system would keep them from winning.

And since they never win, because they are absolutely batshit-out-of-their-minds-insane, it just reinforces their delusions about the system.

Which is not to say the system isn't corrupt.

It's ordinary corruption--the United States hasn't been replaced by a corporation. Fringe on a flag in a courtroom doesn't make it an admiralty court. Having your name written in all caps on something doesn't mean it's not actually referring to you.

Blogger Cataline Sergius December 08, 2018 10:10 PM  

Honestly, they both should have seen this coming.

It's been happening to everyone.

Hell, I've got my own backup site ready to go once blogger decides to kill the Dark Herald.

Blogger cecilhenry December 08, 2018 10:10 PM  

Sargon is 'far right'??

Absolutely laughable.

He's not even on the right.

“Far right” = the belief that White children deserve a future.

Blogger Avalanche December 08, 2018 10:12 PM  

@13 "employing anti-discrimination laws?"

because, you know, the courts are just SO fair and not converged?

Blogger D. December 08, 2018 10:30 PM  

"Solidarity is useless and just slows you down."

Wasn't the original concept of Arapnet decentralization?

Blogger State Estimation December 08, 2018 10:49 PM  


Even if they were correct, they wouldn't win, because the illegitimate system would keep them from winning.

Yep, and this stuff is so esoteric, nobody cares if it's true or not. It's a waste of time.

Blogger lynnjynh9315 December 08, 2018 10:56 PM  

Apparently a Google employee just dropped dead inside NYC HQ:
https://nypost.com/2018/12/08/google-employee-22-found-dead-inside-nyc-headquarters/amp/

Blogger The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey December 08, 2018 11:16 PM  

The negativity has got to go.

More than half of the problem is simply showing up. That's what the kid Bill Gates did, he simply showed up whereas Gary Kildall went flying, and it all flowed from that point.

Get out there and do what you can do. Show up.

Blogger SciVo December 08, 2018 11:26 PM  

cmdrwyrm wrote:It's ordinary corruption--the United States hasn't been replaced by a corporation. Fringe on a flag in a courtroom doesn't make it an admiralty court. Having your name written in all caps on something doesn't mean it's not actually referring to you.

Whaaat? But I have been assured that since Russia invaded Georgia, and Georgia is a state, Putin committed an act of war against the United States! (That was the point where I finally couldn't keep a straight face, and laughed and told him that words are not magic. He left me alone the rest of his time in the waiting room.)

Blogger Rhys December 08, 2018 11:35 PM  

I'll start it off:

#1. The time Jordan Peterson deplatformed Faith Goldy.

Blogger Rhys December 08, 2018 11:39 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Rhys December 08, 2018 11:42 PM  

Vox is 100% right that we should build our own platforms, but I think the "deplatforming" rhetoric should continue to be utilized for the right. I know from experience it's great. Everyone at my job was talking about alex jones the day he was banned, how they thought it wasn't right, and not one of these people pays a lick of attention to politics.

Blogger Dave December 08, 2018 11:53 PM  

Mad Italian wrote:Slightly OT, with FreeStartr dead how do we update our mailing address for AltHero and Swan Knight campaigns?

Email Vox your address change along with your backer number(s). You did save those emails from FreeStartr, right? I suppose your old address might work for verification also.

Blogger CoolHand December 08, 2018 11:53 PM  

McJibblits wrote:Vox. What are your thoughts on dealing with Stripe, PayPal, SWIFT and the like? Especially with crypto in freefall, and nobody really wanting to hold it for very long? How do you gateway to the financial system other than crypto? Coinbase or BitPay, or other crypto processing systems might do the conversions quickly maybe. Just spitballin'. I'm no expert.

I'm not VD, but I've got a suggestion for you.

Go around the SJW gateway processors and just setup your own merchant account directly with the original CC processors themselves.

None of these go-betweens (stripe, PayPal, etc) are the sole point of contact with that industry, they're just the easiest to use because they streamline away much of the traditional bullshit that is associated with an old school merchant account.

But that doesn't mean you can't still do it the old way.

It takes a little longer, but once it's up and running it's essentially automatic.

You sell stuff from your website directly, all you need is a domain name (registered via a non-SJW registrar), web hosting (from a non-SJW host), an SSL cert, and a bank account (at a non-SJW bank).

Sales automatically clear at the end of the day, and they deposit the money into your account directly (usually two business days after the charge is made).

The percentage based fees and service charges are billed monthly, not deducted from the gross charge amount like with PayPal, but that happens automatically as well, just all at once after the the end of the month (once your statement has been generated).

It's all quite seamless, once you get it set up and running.

The bank account is on you, but for the rest, my guys have you covered: https://patriot.hosting/

Domain Registration, DNS, Hosting, SSL certification, and CC Processing.

This deal was designed around serving deplatformed firearms businesses in the US, but is equally applicable to other folks who've been declared persona non grata by the powers that be, regardless of what exactly you were unpersoned for.

If you need an alternate platform for payment processing, this one is up and running right now.

For a look at a site that has implemented this payment processing system, you can have a look at: https://80percentshotgun.com

Anonymous Anonymous December 09, 2018 1:32 AM  

If you want a vision of the glorious multicultural rainbow future, watch this; https://youtu.be/ppFfvL66AIw

Blogger DinduGoy(ransomcheckyouremail) December 09, 2018 1:35 AM  

James Alsup - an actual alt right video maker - was also banned.

Blogger Tars Tarkas December 09, 2018 1:45 AM  

I have zero sympathy for Sargon. He said nothing when other people were banned. These centrist cowards (to be frank, I think cowardice is why they are centrists) get what is coming to them.

They are going to come for everyone even moderately in the center.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 09, 2018 1:57 AM  

@12

"Don't trust them. And remember that China and Russia already have options available if you're really paranoid."

Trust Russia before trusting China.

The Russians are
a) Christian
b) trying to improve their image as a nation and culture.
c) The Chinese don't care what their image is -- that's why they have no qualms selling food and products tainted by poison, and steal high value raw materials sent to them to machine, replacing them with inferior materials (eg. regular aluminum in place of the aerospace aluminum sent by the customer).

Blogger Dirk Manly December 09, 2018 2:10 AM  

@25

>> "Solidarity is useless and just slows you down."

> Wasn't the original concept of Arapnet decentralization?

Unfortunately, the modern, hierarchal DNS structure built on top of the decentralized internet is mostly centralized

While the DNS hierarchy is not a parallel to an autocracy, it is definately an oligarchy... but not one in which all of the oligarchs act in lock-step with the others....merely most of them.

Blogger One Deplorable DT December 09, 2018 3:10 AM  

While I agree that we need to build our own platforms, I think the legal fight is equally important, at least in America. A lot of tech companies should be declared common carriers. And financial deplatforming at this level threatens the fungibility and legitimacy of U.S. currency.

Trump has so much on his plate...but I wish he would address this head on. Even without Congress he has enough power to make tech company lives a living hell.

Blogger Yordan Yordanov December 09, 2018 3:26 AM  

And Sargon and his buddies are going "But he didn't break any rules." and "This is unfair." as if this shit hasn't been blindingly obvious for over two years now.

These people might actually never learn.

Blogger Roman Daoist December 09, 2018 4:21 AM  

Making 'alternative' platforms is only temporary. What is to stop the Terms of Service that Patreon used to block people, from becoming legislation? "Anywone found or purported to be engaging in wrong-think shall be neither a financial beneficiary of or legally responsible for any money processing entity".

Or what do you do if someone bad uses your payment platform? Posting bad messages is one thing (Gab) but a self identified 'alt' service being used to provide money to bad people to do bad things is on another level. Your platform will be seized in no time. And of course 'bad' means whatever the fudge anyone on the left wants it to mean.

Also, the idea of an ideologically alternative platform for a trade service is strange. If you are already being discrimanted against with the blessing of the law today then you will be discriminated against tomorrow too. An alt platform is not a magical hole in, or from, reality.

Women didn't get the vote by setting up alternative governments.

You're challenging the core strategy of - controlling the money - now as opposed to writing challenging comics and commentary. Kust saying there may be some risk.

VD, If you want to set up an alt payment platform, make it 'neutral', meaning market it as far left as you can, market it on the basis of being competitive in terms of fees, etc, and keep yourself away from any listed positions. From the background or forget about it. The moment it's an 'alt' platform, it'll be gone. Best announce now that you are NOT going to do anything like this. Then...

Blogger Roman Daoist December 09, 2018 4:24 AM  

Because K is the new J. Kust saying.

Blogger crescent wrench December 09, 2018 5:28 AM  

" What is to stop the Terms of Service that Patreon used to block people, from becoming legislation?"

The bill of rights.

Much of what these people get away with is because they do it under the radar.

Once it moves to legislation, you can't claim it's a "conspiracy theory", because the human rights targeted by the legislation is there, in black and white, on public record, subject to public exposure and lawfare.

Blogger wreckage December 09, 2018 5:30 AM  

@42 Vox has said as much himself IIRC. The aim is not to produce an "alt" anything, but a superior one that does not screw its customers over.

Vox has demonstrated repeatedly that what he's into is producing superior product, with superior infrastructure, with the intent that given unexpectedly good circumstances and opportunities, it could supplant and replace the market leader.

Blogger VD December 09, 2018 5:51 AM  

If you are already being discrimanted against with the blessing of the law today then you will be discriminated against tomorrow too.

They don't use the law. They can't use the law. That's the whole point. The reason they constantly nibble around the edges and don't state anything clearly is because they are rightly afraid of the law being used AGAINST them. The best they can achieve is avoiding the law being enforced against them, and they're losing that battle now everywhere from Brussels to Washington DC.

VD, If you want to set up an alt payment platform, make it 'neutral', meaning market it as far left as you can, market it on the basis of being competitive in terms of fees, etc, and keep yourself away from any listed positions. From the background or forget about it. The moment it's an 'alt' platform, it'll be gone. Best announce now that you are NOT going to do anything like this. Then...

So clever! What a cunning plan! It's crazy. People like you live in terror of those you believe are so stupid that they'll be totally fooled by claiming all your guns were lost in a tragic canoe accident.

Have you ever set up a payment platform? No? Then shut up and spare us the armchair business consulting.

Blogger Mark Stoval December 09, 2018 6:23 AM  

Daniel Babylon wrote:The first thing right-wingers need to do is to accept that censorship is not immoral. Instead of gasping and crying "How could they do this" they should note that nobody owes them a platform, and its their job to make sure their ideas are out there.

I would like to point out that many of these platforms depend upon the US Government for the internet and other services that allow them to do business. I pay taxes so that they might exist.

A friend ran a small restaurant, he could not serve ONLY those he wanted to. Imagine him hanging a sign that said "white people only". On top of that, I read all the time that Christian businesses are ordered to serve the most anti-Christian of customers. "Bake that damn cake"

If we must serve all; then why the hell do you say that these corporations are not engaged in illegal activities when they ruin a man just because he is "of the right".

Why? Power simply put. Google is engaged in massive illegal activities but they have the backing of the deep state. The others? I don't know, but I do know that if Chick-fil-A stopped serving left-wing commies all hell would break loose.

Blogger Unknown December 09, 2018 6:47 AM  

"British conspiracy theorist Sargon of Akkad".
Yeah, he has some excellent videoes on 9/11 truth and the illuminati.

Blogger ash December 09, 2018 8:06 AM  

Never say "I'm formulating a plan to respond". That just means you have something to hide. Always just respond.

JP's language is eerily reminiscent of the CLintons.

Blogger Unknown December 09, 2018 8:39 AM  

LEFT LIES and FAKE NEWS.

The Proud Boys were never classified as an extreme group by FBI.

https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2018/12/head-of-oregons-fbi-bureau-doesnt-designate-proud-boys-as-extremist-group.html

If we are asking if liberals have gone too far, I think they took a poorly worded memo from Clark County and conflated a couple of things.

Here is an update:

Head of Oregon’s FBI: Bureau doesn’t designate Proud Boys as extremist group


The FBI has not designated the Proud Boys, whose members routinely appear at right-wing protests in downtown Portland, as an extremist group, Oregon’s top FBI agent said Tuesday.

The FBI never intended to do so when it briefed Clark County law enforcement leaders recently about regional threats, Special Agent in Charge Renn Cannon said during a wide-ranging meeting with media at the bureau’s Portland headquarters.

His comments directly counter an internal Clark County Sheriff’s Office memo that suggested otherwise and drew national attention.

Blogger Blogger December 09, 2018 8:47 AM  

@21 Actually, you're incorrect, but I won't engage denialists.

FTR, the way you play it is that if they admit one thing, they lose another. Put them into legal catch 22s, don't steal money or issue fake liens or stuff like that.

Personally I've had more success with being born under the Napoleonic Code than any "fringe on the flag" stuff and materially fraudulent incorporation (no statute of limitations). Shield, not sword, though: I just did it to teach a dirty cop a lesson.

Blogger James Dixon December 09, 2018 9:48 AM  

> And remember that China and Russia already have options available if you're really paranoid.

Thanks for the hint. Time to do some research.

> Fair enough. But you still agree that nobody is entitled to equal representation from their political enemies?

Entitled to? No. But whether they are required to offer it or not depends entirely on the terms of the contract they offer and advertising of same. Of course, this assumes proper operation of the legal system, which we all know is a joke.

> Go around the SJW gateway processors and just setup your own merchant account directly with the original CC processors themselves.

Which will work until the credit card companies themselves deplatform you. Which will start happening as soon as the Dem's get back in power again and can cover for them.

We're going to need an overtly right wing credit card company eventually. It's best to be planning for that now.

And even that won't stop what's coming. But that's another topic.

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling December 09, 2018 9:50 AM  

@34 CoolHand:

Go around the SJW gateway processors and just setup your own merchant account directly with the original CC processors themselves.

Entirely insufficient, we've now heard multiple, sufficiently reliable at this point claims that Mastercard is driving a great deal of the deplatforming. Your bank, given the choice of losing you as a merchant customer or losing this entire line of business, which would still shut you down, isn't going to be able to provide you that service.

I've said it before here, mostly in the context of how for almost all people it'll work better than crypto, that snail mailing small amounts of currency, is the best option we'll have after we're shut out of the normal credit and debit card payment system.

Blogger Damelon Brinn December 09, 2018 9:51 AM  

If we must serve all; then why the hell do you say that these corporations are not engaged in illegal activities when they ruin a man just because he is "of the right".

I think many on the Right see the argument that Patreon et al. don't have to serve everyone because private business, and think, "Cool, a win for Freedom of Association. That means we don't have to bake the damn cake!" But that's not how it works when the underlying rule is who/whom. The left will gladly continue to enforce the meat-space laws against discrimination in the case of gay wedding cakes, while ignoring them online. As long as the laws and precedents exist, our best bet is for government to enforce them in both spaces.

Blogger Doktor Jeep December 09, 2018 10:06 AM  

I'm starting to wonder just who it might be that gets "eaten last".

Blogger Tars Tarkas December 09, 2018 10:19 AM  

Jackson Peds wrote:The Proud Boys were never classified as an extreme group by FBI.
This is why they use such slippery terms like hate-group and hate-speech. There is no definition to these terms in America. Hate-speech does not exist as a concept in American law. Same for hate-group. I'm pretty sure the FBI cannot classify any legal group as anything, extreme or otherwise. Any classification they might use would be for internal purposes. Even if they could or can, the only sanctions they can put on you are criminal or civil.

The Trump administration is dropping the ball here.

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling December 09, 2018 10:39 AM  

@56 Tars Tarkusz:

The Trump administration is dropping the ball here.

From the top down "the Trump administration" is against anyone to the right of civic nationalism. Have you forgotten how quickly Trump folded on Charlottesville? How "his" DoJ is also prosecuting James Fields, and just began prosecuting a group of people who went to Charlottesville because they had the effrontery to defend themselves from Antifa and BLM when the state and local police pushed them into those preemptively violent groups?

They're not dropping the ball at all, this is who they are, this is what they do. They are only tangentially, you might say almost randomly on our side, sometimes. But I've not quite given up, in particular I await what Trump does when the latest continuing resolution he signed a few days ago expires on the 21st.

Blogger Roman Daoist December 09, 2018 10:56 AM  

VD wrote:
...

They don't use the law. They can't use the law. That's the whole point. The reason they constantly nibble around the edges and don't state anything clearly is because they are rightly afraid of the law being used AGAINST them. The best they can achieve is avoiding the law being enforced against them, and they're losing that battle now everywhere from Brussels to Washington DC.


But they are forgiven for not obeying the law. Alternative platforms will have the law strictly (if not over zealously) applied just for them.

And the antitrust stuff re Alphabet isn't touching discrimination re content; it's purely product preference. Then, wasn't Merkel herself caught hot-miking instructions to Zuckerburg? Not a lot of investigation followed that (imagine it was Trump telling Zuck what he needs to get on with). Point being we're a loooooong way off a systemic legal prosecution favourable to conservative Euro principles. So proceed with caution when targetting their home turf (money handling).

...

So clever! What a cunning plan! It's crazy. People like you live in terror of those you believe are so stupid that they'll be totally fooled by claiming all your guns were lost in a tragic canoe accident.

Have you ever set up a payment platform? No? Then shut up and spare us the armchair business consulting.


I'm most terrified about my daughter's dental situation. Us Pollacks are good for a lot, not including particularly even teeth!

Re building payment platforms, not lately (or ever) but my bit of "armchair business consulting" is the value-add asside the important bit that you didn't address; about being able to be shut down quick-smart as soon as anyone, real or imagined, used an alt payment platform for anything even vaguely non PC. That's the question for you. You've got to see that coming. It's the same as your prediction re Gab times a million.

In any case I wish you all best. Just putting in my 10 zwoty.

PS. The canoe thing refers to a ZH commenter keen to make sure everyone knew how much silver he 'lost', not guns. But I won't hold that against you. :)

PPS. I have a paper back copy of the Missionaries thanks to you... Here's hoping you don't try tossing back a smoke grenade that's been a little too well cooked - you know - because 'it's the right thing to do'.

Blogger Lance E December 09, 2018 11:44 AM  

Not that I have much sympathy for Sargon, but "conspiracy theorist"? Who writes this crap?

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling December 09, 2018 11:54 AM  

@58 Roman Daoist:

But they are forgiven for not obeying the law. Alternative platforms will have the law strictly (if not over zealously) applied just for them.

Let us never forget that we are living in an age of stark anarcho-tyranny. Those who attack us in one way or another, from direct like Antifa to the simple displacement of the immivasion, are given extreme latitude, while we are "over zealously" policed.

Blogger tz December 09, 2018 12:04 PM  

If you missed it, Gavin McInnes is no longer on the CRtv/Blaze. He disavowed, but it didn't help. I guess they told him to get off their lawn.

Blogger Dave December 09, 2018 12:07 PM  

In any case I wish you all best. Just putting in my 10 zwoty.

PS. The canoe thing refers to a ZH commenter keen to make sure everyone knew how much silver he 'lost', not guns. But I won't hold that against you. :)

PPS. I have a paper back copy of the Missionaries thanks to you... Here's hoping you don't try tossing back a smoke grenade that's been a little too well cooked - you know - because 'it's the right thing to do'.


Aaaaaaaand Gamma's last words?

Blogger tz December 09, 2018 12:13 PM  

It isn't just the internet. The Obama administration had Operation Chokepoint which caused banks to close the accounts of many businesses, including marijuana and firearms - and Crypto exchanges.

One thing coming up in Wyoming as soon as the legislature gets back is a "state bank" that wouldn't be FDIC insured, and wouldn't do loans or other things but have accounts for any legal business. The main focus was on crypto coin exchanges and processors, but also gun manufacturers and dealers, and even Colorado marijuana businesses. There will be a few details, but generally it will open the financial system to all.

Blogger James Dixon December 09, 2018 12:31 PM  

> There will be a few details, but generally it will open the financial system to all.

How will they deal with Mastercard and Visa when they tell them not to deal with someone? That's when things will get interesting. As I've said before, if Discover Card had any sense...

Blogger John Bradley December 09, 2018 12:40 PM  

I got email from Milo on Dec. 4 announcing his new 'deal'. Thanked him for the opportunity to throw money at him again -- in exchange for some content -- but hoped he had a backup plan in place for when Patreon inevitably kicked him off. Recommended he talk to VD about that sort of thing.

Booted within 48hrs was quicker than I ever imagined, though.

BTW, his new book is excellent, very much a "we have to purge the Church of these Leftist fags in order to save the West" affair.

Blogger M N AD December 09, 2018 12:50 PM  

Aaaaaaaand Gamma's last words?

Coming from some badly learnt one, who learns when he should not. Almost as bad as a bootlicker.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 09, 2018 1:06 PM  

James Dixon wrote:How will they deal with Mastercard and Visa when they tell them not to deal with someone?
How will Mastercard react when they are slapped with a $1 per transaction regulatory fee?

Blogger James Dixon December 09, 2018 4:23 PM  

> How will Mastercard react when they are slapped with a $1 per transaction regulatory fee?

Pass it on to the consumer. How did you expect?

Blogger CoolHand December 09, 2018 7:27 PM  

Well, as soon as Freestartr talked about Stripe deplatforming them at Mastercard's behest, I went and talked to my rep about it.

He said that the CC companies are bound by law to serve everyone who is not provably breaking the law. This goes all the way back to the Civil Rights Movement shit from the 60's, where companies were heavily leaned upon at gunpoint to serve everyone equally ('cause we can't have groids living without CC debt, now can we?).

This means someone is lying.

Either my rep at the CC company is lying to me, or Stripe Et Al is lying to the media about why they really shitcan people, or the media is lying to us all about what anyone told them (if they even bothered to ask).

All I know for sure is that I am in the evilest of evil businesses as far as SJW's are concerned, and I've had no trouble with the CC companies themselves, while Stripe Et Al wouldn't even talk to me.

Go ahead and build your own CC company, that's not a bad idea, but it's stupid to refrain from doing business at all (thereby denying yourself any income) until you accomplish such a gargantuan task.

Do not let perfect be the enemy of good enough not to starve to death in the mean time.

Also, doing the latter does not stop you from also doing the former. Nothing says that you can't strive to replace Mastercard while using them as a payment processor to keep the lights on and the cat fed.

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling December 09, 2018 7:49 PM  

@69 CoolHand:

Well, as soon as Freestartr talked about Stripe deplatforming them at Mastercard's behest, I went and talked to my rep about it.

He said that the CC companies are bound by law


You are a very funny person, did you know that?

Blogger CoolHand December 09, 2018 8:39 PM  

Random #57 wrote:
You are a very funny person, did you know that?


No funnier than a committed blackpill shill.

Which makes more sense:

1) A CC company will break statutory law to virtue signal.

2) An internet company will do whatever they want, and when called on it will lie rather than even try to hide behind their ToS.

3) A media that is running a 24/7/365 demoralization campaign against everyone to the right of Mao took the opportunity of a internet company deplatforming customers to add in a few rhetorical flourishes to really drive home the point of how futile it is to oppose them.

One of those options has real world consequences with a non-zero possibility of occurrence.

The other two have essentially no down side and serve to demoralize their stated enemies.

Consequences for their actions aside aside, it's having the desired effect on you, ain't it?

The perfect solution isn't directly to hand? Guess I'll just give up then.

Blackpills quit first and bitch about it later, while accusing everyone else of being naive.

If you were really committed to your blackpill ways, you'd skip ahead a few steps and just kill yourself.

Would save everyone a lot of time.

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling December 09, 2018 8:46 PM  

@71 CoolHand:

I prefer realist, obviously. And I've already suggested a workable solution for this problem, as I see it inevitably developing absent the counter-revolution, once people get tired of wack-a-mole games with credit and debit cards, snail mailing small packets of cash.

Blogger James Dixon December 09, 2018 8:47 PM  

> Which makes more sense:

Embrace the power of and.

The credit card companies will do whatever they can get away with. If they think the judges and Congress have their back they'll break the law without even thinking about it.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 09, 2018 8:51 PM  

@71

"If you were really committed to your blackpill ways, you'd skip ahead a few steps and just kill yourself."

... and take out a swamp creature in your suicidal act.

Blogger CoolHand December 09, 2018 9:17 PM  

Random #57 wrote:@71 CoolHand:

I prefer realist, obviously. And I've already suggested a workable solution for this problem, as I see it inevitably developing absent the counter-revolution, once people get tired of wack-a-mole games with credit and debit cards, snail mailing small packets of cash.


Yes, because everyone is going to mail an envelope with a $1,000 cash in it and then wait for the two weeks it's going to take to see if it made it or not.

And you think I'm a funny guy.

Say you want to insure it and track it, Priority Mail has a specific prohibition on mailing cash, so no luck there. And even if they didn't, it would cost ~$22 to mail and insure a thousand dollars in cash.

We're talking about real commerce here, $2,500 rifles or $1,750 rear end housings, not selling $2.50 stickers by snail mail.

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling December 10, 2018 4:00 AM  

@75 CoolHand:

We're talking about real commerce here, $2,500 rifles or $1,750 rear end housings, not selling $2.50 stickers by snail mail.

We're talking Patreon type funding here, the context is Milo and Sargon being banned from that platform.

If you're buying or selling a gun, money orders or cashier's checks are preferred, gun stores prefer not paying credit card fees, and individuals not in the business don't have merchant accounts. Which you would know if you've ever done either yourself.

Getting back to your original point, while we can argue about the merits of my alternative to cryptocurrencies for "normal", and even fairly technically sophisticated people, I'm not blackpilling when I'm offering an practical alternative.

Blogger CoolHand December 10, 2018 9:19 AM  

Random #57 wrote:If you're buying or selling a gun, money orders or cashier's checks are preferred, gun stores prefer not paying credit card fees, and individuals not in the business don't have merchant accounts. Which you would know if you've ever done either yourself.

Nice try jerkoff, but I mfg and sell firearms for a living.

You really have no idea what you're talking about.

The conversion rate for sales is over ten times as high when people can pay via CC vs mailing in a check or money order, even when they know they are paying a 4% convenience fee.

I have years worth of my own business data on this, and decades of industry research to back me up here.

If you refuse to accept CC's as a form of payment, you starve to death, because your customer pool is reduced by an order of magnitude or more.

Crypto and cash are a non-starter. I have had the ability to accept crypto for purchases for over three years now, and in all that time not a single person has even asked if that was an option, to say nothing of actually doing the transaction. Same with physical gold/silver/platinum and cash.

I can count the number of times I've been paid by check or money order in the last three years on one hand, and that was always a guy over the age of 60.

Snail mailed cash may work for tiny Patreon sized transactions, but again, your conversion ratio will be exceptionally low.

It is already very difficult to get people to support such ventures, even with the streamlining that Patreon offers.

Add in the new hassle of having to get cash, stuff the envelope, buy postage, and find a mailbox or take the thing to the Post Office, and your already low conversion rate will crater spectacularly.

The Brave browser micro transaction model is much more likely to replace Patreon than cash in envelopes, IMO, but they're just as susceptible to convergence as any other tech company.

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling December 10, 2018 9:53 AM  

@77 CoolHand:

Random #57 wrote:
If you're buying or selling a gun, money orders or cashier's checks are preferred, gun stores prefer not paying credit card fees, and individuals not in the business don't have merchant accounts. Which you would know if you've ever done either yourself.

Nice try jerkoff, but I mfg and sell firearms for a living.


Always a great sign when your "debate" opponent resorts to insults.

I said preferred, of course gun stores also accept credit cards, and take the hit, but if you like them, you'll send a money order or cashier's check if they take it, and it's easy and cheap for you to do.

And did you miss the minor detail about how I'm not in the business, so when I had a hunk of metal to sell I couldn't accept a credit card payment, given that I'm not stupid enough to use PayPal, even before considering it had a ban for that use.

Snail mailed cash may work for tiny Patreon sized transactions, but again, your conversion ratio will be exceptionally low.

Indeed, but if that's the only alternative? And, again, the topic of this discussion, vs. your "squirrel!" diversion.

The Brave browser micro transaction model is much more likely to replace Patreon than cash in envelopes, IMO, but they're just as susceptible to convergence as any other tech company.

Or get knocked off the current Internet in due course. But isn't that cryptocurrency based, and goes against a strong psychological desire of people to know exactly how much they're paying, even if it ends up being more than a variable charge. I don't believe that anyone has ever been able to make that sort of micropayment system work. And in the end, you still need access to the banking system to put money into your system and disburse it out.

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling December 10, 2018 11:54 AM  

@77 CoolHand

Add in the new hassle of having to get cash, stuff the envelope, buy postage, and find a mailbox or take the thing to the Post Office, and your already low conversion rate will crater spectacularly.

People don't carry any cash to speak of any more? Buying postage is now nearly trivial, the USPS sells it at cost on their website, pay with a credit card :-). I put my outgoing snail mail in my mailbox, not the sort that has a flag, so I put a brightly colored Post-it note on it with "OUTGOING" written on the side facing the postman. Never fails, although I'm sure that won't be true for other parts of the US.

But, yes, less people will do this. But it's the committed who are going to count as things get nastier.

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