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Wednesday, January 09, 2019

Losing their little minds


Joe Rogan's fans are losing their little minds over someone who has actually been in both ring fights and very bloody real fights observing that a guy who relentlessly trains in various martial arts disciplines, but has never done anything except play the glorified game of tag that is point-fighting, observably doesn't actually know how to fight. Rogan is in wonderful shape, and he's worked very hard, but he's quite clearly not even training for actual fighting.

I've had my nose broken and I've been knocked out. I've broken other people's ribs, ankles, and noses. I've bled like a stuck pig and had other people's blood running down both my arms to my elbows. Which is why I can tell you, no amount of training is a substitute for actual experience.

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133 Comments:

Blogger Sherwood family January 09, 2019 6:55 AM  

That this isn't obvious is a sad commentary on how far into fantasy land most people are.

Blogger The Cooler January 09, 2019 7:01 AM  

Your chair hurts my back, Vox.

Blogger Uncle John's Band January 09, 2019 7:17 AM  

Crazy talk. Start doubting the magic of point fighting and next thing you know you'll be questioning Hollywood waif-fu.

Blogger Adam Meek January 09, 2019 7:20 AM  

they're all infantrymen who can "take you out" :)

Blogger John January 09, 2019 7:39 AM  

Ivan Throne is fighting an exhibition match with Tate in March. It doesn’t sound like you can be convinced to fight Rogan as an undercard there, but I hope you’ll do a Darkstream analyzing it.

Blogger James P January 09, 2019 7:46 AM  

Was a great stream and I believe you wholeheartedly. Rogan had always been a joke that wastes his life high on weed. I believe they should end the drug war but anybody that actually pushes and uses drugs as much as Rogan is a loser. I quit listening to him years ago when he claimed driving high on weed does not affect his ability to drive. Glad my children and Grand children aren't walking the streets he drives down to grab his munchies. Total loser.

Blogger JAG January 09, 2019 7:50 AM  

I took Taekwondo for a few months, but dropped for a couple of main reasons.

1) Kicks have never been a good option for me. I'm not long-legged, nor athletic enough.

2) I could beat the black belt students with ease in spars when the Sensei would allow me to use free-style wrestling.

Blogger VD January 09, 2019 7:57 AM  

they're all infantrymen who can "take you out" :)

He apologized in the comments. It's cool.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums January 09, 2019 7:58 AM  

It's not rocket science.
You jog so your body is going to adapt to jogging.
You lift weights so your body is going to adapt to lifting weights
Same goes for every discipline including gaming. You play against bots you won't have a change against real players.

But for some reason people don't apply that same common sense rule to martial arts. I blame Karate Kid, it planted the idea that if you can wax a car you can win a karate tournament because... reasons.

Blogger #6277Hammer January 09, 2019 8:06 AM  

Damn Vox, you played rugby too. I'm guessing with your speed it was on the wing?

Blogger David Baker January 09, 2019 8:10 AM  

Great strategy to engage Rogans fan base. I'll be watching your subs figure go up by the hour now! If he has the time to watch this he'd probably agree with you. I'd like to see an IDW contest. Rogan looks tough to comedians, pundits and intellectual giants but he isn't a street fighter... Nor should he be at his age.

Blogger The Cooler January 09, 2019 8:14 AM  

Aren't you spatially retarded? That should negatively affect your proprioception and therefore your hand-to-hand effectiveness, especially in the pocket or clinch, but it doesn't seem to have given you any practical issues.

Blogger VD January 09, 2019 8:15 AM  

Damn Vox, you played rugby too. I'm guessing with your speed it was on the wing?

Just one season. Yes, on the wing. Got kicked out of my first game, it was either Army or Penn State, for excessive violence.

Blogger David Baker January 09, 2019 8:16 AM  

Like indoor wall climbers who get exposure and abrasion injuries when they climb on rock for the first time... Or treadmill runners who can't hack wet feet from a bog trot.

Blogger Damelon Brinn January 09, 2019 8:28 AM  

Rogan said Ronda Rousey could beat as many as half the male fighters in her weight class, back when that was a thing for five minutes, so that made it pretty clear he didn't know much about it.

Blogger Peaceful Poster January 09, 2019 8:33 AM  

Is it even possible to get knocked out but NOT have a concussion??

Blogger The Cooler January 09, 2019 8:43 AM  

Is it even possible to get knocked out but NOT have a concussion??

It is. If one has a button chin, for example, it getting pushed such that one's light gets turned off is a nervous system response, not necessarily a jolt to the brain itself resulting in unconsciousness.

Blogger VD January 09, 2019 8:44 AM  

Rogan said Ronda Rousey could beat as many as half the male fighters in her weight class, back when that was a thing for five minutes, so that made it pretty clear he didn't know much about it.

I feel... I feel another Darkstream coming on!

Blogger widlast washere January 09, 2019 8:44 AM  

"Is it even possible to get knocked out but NOT have a concussion??"

Yes. Any strike that interrupts blood flow to the brain can cause the subject to pass out. Generally a bad idea to get smacked in the head though. Repeated concussions can lead to permanent brain damage.

Blogger LibertyPortraits January 09, 2019 8:51 AM  

With no real world experience what good is training? It's like learning how to code without ever coding.

Blogger Rocklea Marina January 09, 2019 8:53 AM  

I feel... I feel another Darkstream coming on!

I'll pre-order the book.

JRE, The Greatest Celebrity Fighting Comedian Ever.

Blogger The Cooler January 09, 2019 8:59 AM  

Any strike that interrupts blood flow to the brain can cause the subject to pass out.

Wat. When someone gets knocked out they are not losing consciousness due to lack of blood flow to the brain and even if they were it would have nothing to do with being concussed. Knock-outs are nervous system responses neither necessary nor sufficient to cause a concussion.

Blogger Jeff Kuhnke January 09, 2019 9:01 AM  

Yep. I have a black belt in taekwondo working on 2nd Dan. For a street fight, all it means is that I *might* have a better chance than an uncoordinated moron.

It can help, but it in no way makes anyone capable of winning a real fight, unless they've trained to do so.

Blogger Avalanche January 09, 2019 9:04 AM  

I cannot recommend highly enough Rory Miller's excellent book "Meditations on Violence: A Comparison of Martial Arts Training and Real World Violence." Also his, "Facing Violence: Preparing for the Unexpected," and with Lawrence Kane, "Scaling Force: Dynamic Decision Making Under Threat of Violence."

"Experienced martial artist and veteran correction officer Sgt. Rory Miller distills what he has learned from jailhouse brawls, tactical operations and ambushes to explore the differences between martial arts and the subject martial arts were designed to deal with: Violence."

As part of my self-defense 'legal prep' work because I carry, I've worked my way through several of Rory's (amazing!) books; and also some Marc "Animal" MacYoung's books: "What You Don't Know Can Kill You: How Most Self-Defense Training Will Put You into Prison or the Ground" and "In the Name of Self-Defense:: What it costs. When it's worth it," and "Beyond The Picket Fence: Life Outside the Middle-Class Bubble." (There are some vids of Rory and Marc at YT.)

Andrew Branca, Esq. (in his book "The Law of Self-Defense" and his state-specific classes) strongly recommends that you not just know 'precursors to violence' in case you need to draw your weapon; but you must be able to describe those precursors in court -- because judges can BLOCK you expert witnesses if the judge chooses to.

Branca's motto: You carry a gun so you're hard to kill; know the law so you're hard to convict.

Blogger Avalanche January 09, 2019 9:09 AM  

@18 "Ronda Rousey could beat as many as half the male fighters ...
I feel... I feel another Darkstream coming on!"

Ooh ooh! YES PLEASE!!

Blogger Avalanche January 09, 2019 9:14 AM  

@23 "all it means is that I *might* have a better chance than an uncoordinated moron."

Actually, I read an interesting bit that in a post-action 'study' of some sort (vague memory now, sorry; and am pretty sure it was gun use in self-defense, not MA); they found that the untrained 'moron' (or just regular person) actually did BETTER defending themselves (or not suffering horrible injury/ies) than a partially trained martial artist -- because the 'moron' just goes frantic in self-defense, 'kitchen-sink' and everything; while the part-trained guy is (mentally) sorting through: which technique, what position,which hand, which which which... Slows the OODA loop to a crawl!

Blogger JDUP777 January 09, 2019 9:15 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Arthur Tintagel January 09, 2019 9:17 AM  

ouch lol, you hit Joe where it hurts most, his fighting skills.

His normie insight on the various topics are so laughably stupid, but i at least thought that he was a good fighter.

Blogger Guitar Man January 09, 2019 9:17 AM  

His ground game is probably legit. Two BJJ blackbelts. Still, "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums January 09, 2019 9:19 AM  

Peaceful Poster wrote:Is it even possible to get knocked out but NOT have a concussion??

Yeah, you do it every night. Aside from that, physiologically speaking, the brain bounces like a ball inside your skull when you're punched. Rogan always says it's the punch you don't see coming that knocks you out and there's truth to that. Your body tenses up when you're about to get punched therefore the shock is mostly absorbed by your musculo-skeletal system. If you're sucker punched in the head the shock will go directly to your brain.

LibertyPortraits wrote:With no real world experience what good is training? It's like learning how to code without ever coding.

Yeah. It helps with staying fit but you don't have to put your body through all that abuse. If you're not planning on doing some actual fighting I have no idea why you would constantly train for fighting. Unless you like to pretend you're a ninja, of course.

Blogger Loyd Jenkins January 09, 2019 9:20 AM  

Have followed Marc MacYoung for years. I second Avalanche's recommendations. Marc is still busy trying to get what he has learned out.

From him I learned -- nothing is for sure, and what works is what works.

Blogger JDUP777 January 09, 2019 9:22 AM  

I remember Joe Rogan explaining how he realized that Taekwondo is completely ineffective when he switched to Kickboxing. He had some amateur Kickboxing fights. So he must have taken a beating more than once. BJJ is also what the UFC was built on and Joe has a black belt in that. My assessment is that he is as good as an amateur is going to get. But not talented enough to compete as a pro.

Blogger The Cooler January 09, 2019 9:24 AM  

Credit where it's due, Rogan is an adept MMA historian.

To paraphrase, "We've learned more in the last 8 years about what works in a real fight than we had in the previous 800."

He's no dummy.

Blogger Avalanche January 09, 2019 9:26 AM  

Oh hey! Here's a 'demo' of, say, Owen (or even Vox) with JRE; occurs in in the 1.2 minutes of this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSI2I-zs-Xs
("Marc "Animal" MacYoung - Ever Been Sucker Punched? - Episode 9")

I like some few of JRE's interviews very good but, over time, I found him to be not very worthy of respect. Idiot-liberal in a lot of ways ... but often a really good interviewer.

Blogger Guitar Man January 09, 2019 9:29 AM  

@The Cooler,

MMA has proven what works and what doesn't. This is why we don't see many TKD or Bullshido McDojo types (if any) represented at a professional level in the UFC and other pro MMA avenues. It is also why arts like BJJ and Muay Thai have become very popular.

Blogger The Cooler January 09, 2019 9:32 AM  

Yup.

Blogger LibertyPortraits January 09, 2019 9:36 AM  

The Cooler wrote:Credit where it's due, Rogan is an adept MMA historian.

To paraphrase, "We've learned more in the last 8 years about what works in a real fight than we had in the previous 800."

He's no dummy.


But aren't real world fights dirty? What about biting, scratching, head butting?

Blogger Patrick Charles January 09, 2019 9:36 AM  

He also said she would beat Floyd Mayweather in a boxing match lol.

Blogger Guitar Man January 09, 2019 9:36 AM  

I'm biased, but if someone only has time to learn one style, go with grappling of some sort. Sambo, wrestling, or my favorite, BJJ. Still, that leaves an entire aspect of fighting exposed. Boxing gyms are typically very cheap.

Blogger Tino January 09, 2019 9:38 AM  

Which is why I can tell you, no amount of training is a substitute for actual experience. -VD

Amen. Absolute Truth.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums January 09, 2019 9:50 AM  

Rogan was clearly thirsty for Rhonda. Men do and say crazy things around women they like.

Blogger The Cooler January 09, 2019 9:55 AM  

But aren't real world fights dirty? What about biting, scratching, head butting?

I worked my way through school as a bouncer, later a cooler. While different, it's not a huge jump from MMA to a 'no-rules' scenario. Although I absolutely will concede that you might find 1 in 10 His LordShit Chad Thunderballs MMA adepts that understand the value of "RUN."

I'm biased, but if someone only has time to learn one style, go with grappling of some sort.

I began in boxing and still love me some Sweet Science, but I would have to agree. Although a good striker with a strong take down defense is a formidable man (a la Chuck Liddell).

Blogger Jeff Kuhnke January 09, 2019 10:00 AM  

If you can muscle-memorize techniques to short the OODA loop a bit, it helps.

MA can help to focus on the attack, avoidance and countering, but I agree with you on the kitchen sink. There's just no substitute for being in a real fight, even against the uncoordinated.

Blogger ar10308 January 09, 2019 10:02 AM  

@33
"Credit where it's due, Rogan is an adept MMA historian.

To paraphrase, "We've learned more in the last 8 years about what works in a real fight than we had in the previous 800.""

He's clearly not any kind of historian. Otherwise he'd know that we have treatises and manuals dating back to Europe in the 1300s that details various Catch Wrestling, grappling and Jiu Jitsu techniques. Also, tons of information on how to fight with the weapons of the time like Longsword, arming sword and buckler, etc.

We've known how to fight for centuries. It just isn't common knowledge yet. But Historical European Martial Arts (HEMA) is working to change that.

Blogger Matt Robison January 09, 2019 10:02 AM  

I've studied Dutch style Muay Thai for about 4 years, and its crazy how different it is going from partner drills, even intense partner drills that include constant counter after counter, to a full round of sparring. Nothing can prepare you for it, except sparring itself. I'd imagine it would be a similar experience being involved in an actual fight. Nothing can prepare you for it except the fight itself.

Blogger Guitar Man January 09, 2019 10:05 AM  

@Matt Robison

Progressive resistance is great. And it sucks.

Blogger Arthur Isaac January 09, 2019 10:20 AM  

UFC doesn't allow kicks or knees to the head of a downed opponent. They don't allow 12 to 6 elbows to the head or blows to the back of the head. You see people "fighting" by burying their head in thé mat and exposing the nape of their neck. That should count as a TKO, not intelligently defending yourself.

Blogger Vlad Z. January 09, 2019 10:20 AM  

Brazillian Jujitsu is a live training martial art. It's not like "Kung Fu" where you memorize a bunch of chopping moves on your own and then maybe once a week do some very light punching with pulled punches.

BJJ is essentially wrestling with an emphasis on chokes and joint locks. Training consists of working systematically on positions and techniques for changing them.

The main training methodology is full force fighting, or "rolling" as BJJ practitioners call it. When doing this it is all out - push as hard as you can. Rolls often start on the ones feet, so the start of the roll is often a takedown. No punching is allowed, it's a wrestling discipline.

Modern MMA, which is as close to full street fighting as we are likely to see, has shown that BJJ is one of the three foundation skill sets one needs to compete effectively. The others are striking (which boxing is a pretty good training for, but which requires a different set of skills without big gloves and with the ability of fighters to "shoot" and take you to the ground or close to clinch at any time.

And the third is clinch fighting. In MMA fighters are allowed to fight in the clinch and Thai Kickboxing is the main source of technique for clinch.

BJJ is the hardest set of skills to acquire. A lot of top MMA fighters are purple belts, for instance. They are 1/2 way to black belt.

A person whose been in a bunch of bar fights but doesn't know BJJ is likely to get taken down quickly and then be completely dominated on the ground, probably choked into unconsciousness.

This was demonstrated clearly in the first few UFC matches 20 years ago, I believe Joyce Gracie, the lightest competitor in the competition won UFC #1, UFC#2 and all his bouts in UFC#3 and UFC#4. Back then they tournamnets were fought as elimination tournaments in a single day like every Kung Fu movie ever made). There were no time or weight limits: you fought the next guy in your draw. Fighters were not stood up, there were no rounds, fighters were not broken up when things got boring on the ground.

In his last match of UFC#4 Joyce, at 180lbs fought 260 lb Dan Sevren, and was underneath him for much of the 16 minute match before choking him out from the bottom.

In getting his BJJ black belt Rogan has been through thousands of matches with people of all sizes and shapes where they are trying with all their might to choke him, or put him in an arm lock, leg lock, foot lock, bow and arrow choke, etc. It adds up.

It was interesting to watch Mayweather vs. McGregor. A 10th Round TKO with the undefeated champion was not a bad result for McGregor.

There was also no discussion of Floyd fighting under MMA rules, because everyone knows he would get his ass totally smashed by McGregor. A good MMA fighter can put up a credible boxing match.

You and Rogan should make a charity match. He seems like a guy who would take the challenge.

Blogger ar10308 January 09, 2019 10:31 AM  

@48
BJJ is only effective in a street/bar fight until your opponent decides to stop respecting all the artificially imposed rules of the sport.

Rolling around in the ground leaves you massively open for a 3rd party to enter and field goal kick your head. Or your opponent to pull that knife and plunge it in to your chest because they won't be respecting that you have mount on them.

Blogger VD January 09, 2019 10:36 AM  

BJJ is essentially wrestling with an emphasis on chokes and joint locks. Training consists of working systematically on positions and techniques for changing them.

I know all about Gracie jiujitsu and BJJ. It's a very useful martial art and there is a reason that it now dominates modern MMA. But it's not very well adapted for actual fighting. All the morons babbling about "going to the ground" and "takedowns" have never seen a guy wrestle someone to the ground, then get smashed over the head with a metal chair used by the guy's friend. Or seen a grappler go after someone's waist, only to find himself caught in a neck-breaking lock.

MMA is more realistic than point-fighting and boxing, but never forget that it is still a very strictly limited game situation. It's not the real thing.

There is a very good reason the striking arts have been paramount for centuries. It's because MOST fighting is not one-on-one with everyone standing around and watching. In both street fights in which I've found myself, multiple parties were involved on both sides.

Blogger VD January 09, 2019 10:37 AM  

You and Rogan should make a charity match. He seems like a guy who would take the challenge.

I'm not interested in challenging anyone. And Rogan didn't want to do full-contact in his 20s. I can't imagine he'd be inclined to give it a whirl now.

Blogger Guitar Man January 09, 2019 10:43 AM  

Agreed, VD. There's nothing that'll prepare you for a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 scenario. Get the hell out of there if possible. The Krav and JKD guys will be in for a world of pain if they think they can take on multiple fighters in a street fight scenario.

Blogger Stacey January 09, 2019 10:47 AM  

Thanks for the walk down memory lane! I took TKD from age 9-13. Everything you said about what martial arts teaches is right on. Even after 35 years of being away from it, I was easily able to spot Rogan's shortcomings. It's hard to believe that some of the people commenting see no difference between running drills and actual fighting.
As for the lesson you learned from the twelve year old; you may have done well, in that case, to remember that Goliath never had a chance against David :)

Blogger Crew January 09, 2019 10:49 AM  

Which is why I can tell you, no amount of training is a substitute for actual experience.

This is going to be the same for war and CWII ...

Blogger pyrrhus January 09, 2019 10:51 AM  

O/T Is a consensus forming? https://thepoliticalinsider.com/obama-border-chief-defends-trump-mark-morgan/

Blogger SAPPER January 09, 2019 10:55 AM  

VD I have to disagree with you. As one who grew up in an inner city among many diverse people, fighting was a normal part of our routine.

I have been in over 50 fights. I do not say this proudly.

I am normal build but broad across the chest. Once I figured out wrestling I incorporated this into my fights.

This enabled me to take down significantly larger opponents and pound them into submission. Even as an adult in the Marines and University, I was able to deploy this style successfully. Believe me or not, it worked for me.

I always used punches and kicks to set up the take down. Worked every time. When MMA used to be called the tough man competition, I entered a event in Miami during 1990's while one leave. I won but ended up breaking one of my fingers. I also entered a tough man competition near Indianapolis and won this event also.

Both times I deployed the same strategy. A boxer + wrestler will always beat a stand up guy every time.

Note: Most people, when confronted with a take down will continue to punch you in the back or back of heads. My back was always black and blue but I still looked handsome(most times).

Sometimes I did encounter someone who could delay the take down and had to do the whole punch/kick style but eventually they made a mistake and the fat lady was called in to sing.

Blogger Guitar Man January 09, 2019 10:57 AM  

OK, having now listened to the majority of this, Vox has provided a fair assessment of JR's technique. And his point about real full contact fighting versus drilling isn't anything that is controversial.

I still remember my first "street fight" and boy did it wake me up.

Blogger The Cooler January 09, 2019 10:58 AM  

There's nothing that'll prepare you for a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 scenario

Run, Chad....RUN!

*Chad doesn't run. Chad now requires catheter*

Blogger Longtime Lurker January 09, 2019 11:00 AM  

@48: Krav Maga. Not exactly designed for sport fighting, but Krav works quite well for self defense.

@49: Amen. In street fights, the action often goes to the ground sooner than later. That's bad policy, but that's what happens when red lines get crossed. In MMA, the fighter with the superior ground game has the better advantage. Overall, it's better to have a ground game than not, and BJJ will definitely provide that, but outside the ring, it's better to stay off the ground at all costs. Rolling among strangers can get you killed in a heartbeat.

Blogger Bogey January 09, 2019 11:04 AM  

You and Rogan should make a charity match. He seems like a guy who would take the challenge.

Do you really want to see two 50 year old guys beat each other's brains in?

Blogger John Best January 09, 2019 11:06 AM  

BJJ is another one of those celebrity fads which everybody loves to brag about doing. I see it all the time of the Joe Rogan podcast. Oh if we get into a fight I am just going to take you down and choke you out. I remember the American guy who stopped a terrorist on a train in France/Belgium almost lost his thumb because as he was trying to choke the terrorist out, the terrorist was cutting his hands with a box cutter. Now you don't get that in BJJ being taught to people. Or how if you try and take someone down on a concrete sidewalk you will smash you knee into the ground so hard it will break your knee cap. The best thing I have found is urban combatives because it takes you through the difference stages of violence from the initial spotting of you as a target to how you feel after you are laying on the ground bleeding out after being stabbed for a few quid by a druggie.

Blogger Guitar Man January 09, 2019 11:08 AM  

Krav is meh.

Blogger VD January 09, 2019 11:13 AM  

VD I have to disagree with you. As one who grew up in an inner city among many diverse people, fighting was a normal part of our routine.

You don't know what you're talking about. That sort of fighting is play-fighting. People stand around and watch. Real fighting is NOT like that.

Let me put it this way. I've seen a friend get knocked out by a guy in a wheelchair. He was the owner of a nightclub, was trying to break up a fight, and got clocked by a brick thrown by a gangbanger who had been paralyzed from the waist down in a shooting.

It was kind of hilarious to be honest.

It's great that you're a tough guy when everyone plays by the rules, and I have no doubt that you'd fare very well indeed against Joe Rogan, but if you don't grasp that going to the ground is totally insane in an actual fight situation, you are simply ignorant.

The whole idea of "we shall stand and watch as our champions do battle" simply does not apply in real life. And striking allows for much higher situational awareness than the focused commitment required by grappling. That being said, holds and locks you can apply while remaining on your feet are excellent in real situations.

Blogger SAPPER January 09, 2019 11:22 AM  

Putting people in the hospital is not play fighting.
Growing up around gangs in Miami, I can tell you one thing, they do not fight fair and you never go into a fight without your friends to keep the other guys off your back. They will always jump in if they can as most gangbangers are opportunists.

My experiences in Miami and Europe support my position but I am not arrogant enough to think I have experienced it all so we will have to respectively disagree. I can see your position, but have not seen it effectively utilized in real life.

Blogger Resident Moron™ January 09, 2019 11:36 AM  

Mike Tyson famously said that everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.

Watch some amateur first fights and see how people who have not been punched regularly in the face react. See the disorientation and panic. These “charity” matches are ideal for seeing this.

Fucksake, if you haven’t experienced it repeatedly being hit hard in the face will introduce you to a whole new world of WTF?

Blogger Patrick Kelly January 09, 2019 11:37 AM  

Excuse the long comment. I've recently began conditioning and training again at a local martial arts studio so these observations are fresh on my mind. The most immediate benefits for me have been better mental focus and physical conditioning. I'm a beginner and make no claim to any skillz, but I do contemplate and analyze my experiences to a fault. Quick to understand in theory, painfully slow to apply in practice, especially as the years add up.

Wow, combo of Wang Chung, Okinawan, and Kali. That's a serious recipe.


"are you afraid?" Man that was cruel trolling of a Marine.

No matter what style or school, the range of how beneficial or effective a martial art is for actual fighting is on a scale of 1-10 with 1 being soccer mom afternoon cardio workout, 10 being fight club. Sounds like Vox was trained at a school closer to 10.

All of them are useful, none of them are magic. No, Tai Chi won't win a fight, but as body training discipline *combined with other training* is helpful, kinda' like yoga.

Solid, fundamental fighting principles are more important than which particular style or school you're training with. Conditioning, movement, foot-work, breathing, situational awareness.

Watch videos of all three, Wang Chung, Okinawa, Kali or even Boxing and notice how much they have in common when actually fighting or sparing, especially re: stance, footwork, hand movement etc. I'm not claiming they're all the same, but rather good fundamental, fighting principles of all styles have much in common.

Context matters. A soldier wearing a pack and body armor carrying an M-4 in the desert is going to fight up close and personal different than someone barefoot in a cage wearing next to nothing with MMA gloves on.

UFC is pretty hard core as a sporting competition, but they are still controlled fights with rules. So comments like "wrestling beats striking in all UFC" fights are silly, and not even true. I've seen UFC fights end with KO or TKO before anyone had a chance to grapple on the ground. Someone like VOX with his fighting background would not be allowed to use everything he knows. Joe might have an advantage in such a fight.

Those videos of Joe were of training drills, not fighting, but Vox's observations are valid. If Joe was going into the MMA cage he would do well to accept such critique and do some remedial training and drilling to address his weaknesses.

Blogger Resident Moron™ January 09, 2019 11:44 AM  

If your training doesn’t include being hit in the face it’s not going to prepare you for being hit in the face.

By the time you get to challenge for heavyweight champion of the world you’ve been hit in the face a lot; years of amateur bouts in different age & weight divisions, plus your professional career.

Blogger VD January 09, 2019 11:45 AM  

Putting people in the hospital is not play fighting.

Yes, you were play-fighting. Deal with it. You were rolling around on the ground, for extended periods of time, leaving yourself entirely exposed to attack. That means you were complete toast the very first time you found yourself in a real fight. Worse, you're trying to correct me, someone who has actual experience of actual fighting which is melee more often than it is not, and are refusing to accept the very real and obvious limitation of your grappling-first approach.

FFS, why do you think the Romans didn't teach their legionaries to grapple, if it's so effective? Because they would have lost every damn battle!

Centurion: Grab that Celt and take him down, Rufius Servius!

Rufius Servius: Ground and pound, yessir!

(takes Celt #1 to the ground.)

Rufius Servius: ERK!

(collapses and dies with Celt #2's sword in his back.)

Blogger Ahnaf Habib January 09, 2019 11:52 AM  

There are "No Rules" in Real Fights save for "Take the other guy out, no matter what it takes".

All the pro-UFC morons are completely missing the point that Vox is making here- You need *real experience* via being conditioned by those Lawless environments of "No Rules" and whatnot. It doesnt matter if you have a Black-Belt in BJJ or if your Capoeira is great; all of that is totally irrelevant in aforementioned Hellish environment.

Blogger ar10308 January 09, 2019 11:56 AM  

@VD,
"FFS, why do you think the Romans didn't teach their legionaries to grapple, if it's so effective? Because they would have lost every damn battle!"

100% agree.

Even in the 1500-1600s, the era of Knights dueling in plate armor, stand-up grappling was used only to toss the other guy to the ground so you could pull your 12" dagger and stuff it through his eye slit as you stood over him. And that was in a duel with agreed-upon rules.

In any real fight without rules, the ground is a death zone. You have no ability to manipulate timing or range of any incoming attack.

Blogger justaguy January 09, 2019 12:03 PM  

I am too far removed from my teens and "experience" to comment on fighting techniques, but have one point: sometime in their teens, boys become men and it becomes too injurious to actually fight over something minor. Bones break, testicles become ruptured, and for too many of our youth, the guns and/or knives come out.

Getting hit with a chair/pipe from some guy you never saw could be crippling,or if lucky, only painful--same for much of what else happens in any bar fight. Most of us learn to avoid it such incidents, hopefully without serious injury or going to jail for assault. There is a reason men died early in primitive societies-- they were killed/crippled by other men in fights over resources. Now have enough resources and do not need to risk life and limb-- at least out of the wrong sections of most cities.

Blogger Avalanche January 09, 2019 12:14 PM  

@64 "you never go into a fight without your friends to keep the other guys off your back. They will always jump in if they can"

Even I can see, right in your phrasing, that you're still fighting with "rules" -- it's "you and me fight, and the friends I brought alone will only interfere IF they need to."

"keep the other guys off your back"

How is it your friends are not ALSO fighting like hell against the other guys? They're your bodyguards while you two 'champions' go at it? Or it is just your phrasing is drawing the wrong picture?

Blogger Longtime Lurker January 09, 2019 12:15 PM  

@69: There are "No Rules" in Real Fights save for "Take the other guy out, no matter what it takes".

Amen. The objective should be to end the fight as quickly as possible and walk away in peace.

How you achieve that is up to you. Every nasty situation I've ever been caught up in has provided me a crack, a sliver, an opening to best my opponent or break contact.

These moments are split-second, fleeting things. They are to be exploited. If your animal nature is sufficiently unrestrained in the moment, you'll automatically take what the situation gives you without even thinking about it.

Blogger Trebor Nosemaj January 09, 2019 12:26 PM  

Rogan's go-to stance is the "Tilting at Windmill" stance. Others might call it a pose.

Blogger Garuna January 09, 2019 12:29 PM  

Roganites are such LARPers with their bullshitting about "going to the ground" and and being impressed with their favorite midget's twirly-wirly, flippity-floppity kicks. Reminds me of people who say "I'd just kick my opponent in the nuts!" Except in a real fight, you don't feel a nut-kick until after it's over.

Blogger Silly but True January 09, 2019 12:34 PM  

@Liberty,

Some ideas: go to Club Ozone on hip-hop night wearing a kluckie outfit. Go to the Waco, TX Twin Peaks and kick over all the motorcycles you can find in the parking lot. Take the floor at DNC national convention in Las Vegas next year and tell audience you’ve cut off their supply of pizza, pasta, and hot dogs.

Blogger Duke Norfolk January 09, 2019 12:44 PM  

Bogey wrote:Do you really want to see two 50 year old guys beat each other's brains in?

Besides it wouldn't prove anything, as they would never have an actual fight. That's the whole point.

Blogger Patrick Charles January 09, 2019 12:49 PM  

Vox, I am curious to know, which art did that block that broke the guy's ankle come from? That sounds like a very effective method of blocking either punches or kicks in a self-defense situation.

Blogger Ingot9455 January 09, 2019 1:00 PM  

Point-of-elbow blocks, plus trapping/guiding/bracing into the point of elbow block, are common to the Phillipine martial arts. Kali is the one mentioned.

Blogger Ingot9455 January 09, 2019 1:07 PM  

Joe Rogan tells a story about training for a cage match with Wesley Snipes for charity as a comeback vehicle, but it fell through. So he's trained for a limited UFC style fight that didn't happen for a few months.

Blogger Latigo3 January 09, 2019 1:10 PM  

People do not get it, until you have been hit in the jaw with a fist (no gloves) kick in the balls, taken a fist to the gut, then you begin to understand what it is to be hit. There are no rules in real fights, it is a matter of taking the other guy out as quickly as possible.

Blogger Doktor Jeep January 09, 2019 1:12 PM  

All my years of hard contact martial arts, knife fighting, and underground dojos... never had a belt, never worked on "points".
But why write of fighting? We need to make manliness great again and make rings and dojos as common for us as drug stores are for boomers.

Blogger VD January 09, 2019 1:15 PM  

Vox, I am curious to know, which art did that block that broke the guy's ankle come from?

Kali. Our sensei finally had to ban ankle-hunting because so many of us had broken ankles, feet, and toes. Too many of us had become sufficiently proficient at destructive blocks so everyone was getting nervous about even throwing a high kick.

It's a bitch because the harder you kick, the more likely it is that you're going to break something.

There is another trick to break the ankle on a side kick between your hip and your elbow. You take the kick and let it sort of drive into your side, then bring your elbow down hard on the ankle. We didn't usually actually break people's ankles that way, though, just gave it a nice bruise to let them know you could have. The breaks were almost always on roundhouse kicks aimed at the head.

Blogger Dave January 09, 2019 1:22 PM  

In Philly 2 days ago: Man Dies After Being Punched During Argument at Dog Park
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Dog-Park-Punch-South-Philadelphia-Argument-Death--503976091.html

This wasn't even a real fight but it just goes to show in the real world there can deadly consequences even if unintended. It was an argument that ended with one punch. The article says the punch caused the man to fall backwards and his head hit the ground. More than likely he was knocked out by the punch. Now we have one dead fiancé and another guy on the lam.

Keep it in the gym and in the ring.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums January 09, 2019 1:22 PM  

Vox, Richard Spencer got sucker punched while he was giving an interview and his first response was to back away and fix his hair. What technique is this?

Blogger Weouro January 09, 2019 1:23 PM  

An old friend of mine who was a fighter told me the exact same thing about point fighting, he called it touch tag or something. His senseI was benny the jet urquidez who has some pretty wicked fight videos on youtube.

Blogger Unknown January 09, 2019 1:24 PM  

Can anyone please explain the term "neo-palestinian"? I tried to figure it out with the help of google, but wasn't successful.

Blogger Dave January 09, 2019 1:27 PM  

@87 google's not up to speed yet, Vox moves too fast

Blogger Scott C January 09, 2019 1:28 PM  

and are refusing to accept the very real and obvious limitation of your grappling-first approach.

When Roy Jones jr fought John Ruiz he landed blows that would have felled most guys at the lower weights he came from. That's the problem with striking. If you're a smaller guy fighting bigger guy(s), head and leg strikes don't do much. The only blows you can really land in a street fight that will end things fast are to the groin or the solar plexus and that's still iffy.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction January 09, 2019 1:35 PM  

Or small joint dislocations or gouging our the eyes.

Blogger Dave January 09, 2019 1:38 PM  

Latigo3 wrote:People do not get it, until you have been hit in the jaw with a fist (no gloves) kick in the balls, taken a fist to the gut, then you begin to understand what it is to be hit.

I've really come to agree with and believe that more people need to know what it feels like to be punched in the face. Take the example of the article I just posted. A guy starts an argument over an unleashed dog. More than likely he's never been in a fight, never been punched in the face, and had never trained in any contact sport. Would he have reacted differently if he'd experienced a punch to the face before? I believe so. Perhaps he wouldn't have been so quick to jump in somebody's face. Maybe he would've taken the punch better or seen it coming.

Blogger Silly but True January 09, 2019 1:39 PM  

But he’s invincible.
https://youtu.be/ECeX1o-1IP8

Blogger Dave January 09, 2019 1:53 PM  

@Unknown reviewing these posts should give you an idea what Vox is getting at.
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2019/01/big-bear-doesnt-take-bait.html
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2019/01/neo-palestinian-priorities.html
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2019/01/why-israel-is-auschwitz.html

Blogger Dave January 09, 2019 1:59 PM  

Wuzzums Fuzzums wrote:Vox, Richard Spencer got sucker punched while he was giving an interview and his first response was to back away and fix his hair. What technique is this?

If I may, I believe that is the Alt-Retard Bob-and-Weave.

Blogger Guitar Man January 09, 2019 2:01 PM  

Speaking of going to the ground. When mom comes along and kicks you to next week: https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/comments/ae76p3/going_to_the_ground_in_da_streetz/

Blogger Xiety January 09, 2019 2:02 PM  

Unknown wrote:Can anyone please explain the term "neo-palestinian"? I tried to figure it out with the help of google, but wasn't successful.
There's a succinct explanation at the 14:27 mark of "Darkstream: A foolish attack on American liberties."
https://youtu.be/zGVPb2Zez7g?t=867

Blogger Guitar Man January 09, 2019 2:02 PM  

Direct link: https://i.imgur.com/YXgdUdd.gifv

Blogger Patrick Charles January 09, 2019 2:10 PM  

Very interesting, I had previously only ever heard of breaking a leg with a block by checking, like in Muay Thai. Were there similar techniques to damage a puncher's hand, or were they less useful, since you wore gloves?

Blogger VD January 09, 2019 2:12 PM  

Vox, Richard Spencer got sucker punched while he was giving an interview and his first response was to back away and fix his hair. What technique is this?

Wind chun kung fu.

Blogger VD January 09, 2019 2:12 PM  

Were there similar techniques to damage a puncher's hand, or were they less useful, since you wore gloves?

You could ding the wrist, but the timing was very tough. I think I managed it twice, ever.

Blogger lordabacus January 09, 2019 2:12 PM  

"That sort of fighting is play-fighting. People stand around and watch. Real fighting is NOT like that."

Pretty clever rhetoric here. Accepting that definition, Rogan could beat Vox handily in a ring fight, and Vox could continue to claim Rogan doesn't know how to win a REAL fight. Unless we have a rule set where third parties are allowed to hit combatants with a chair at unpredictable times.

It really would be great to see an actual bout between the two. My money would be on Joe, but you ilk can take that opinion as seriously as you would that of any BJJ blue belt.

Let's sweeten the pot: If Vox wins, he gets to go on JRE and explain how all Rogan's favorite guests are Satanists. If Joe wins, Vox has to voice a Scalzi audiobook.

Blogger SAPPER January 09, 2019 2:19 PM  

"FFS, why do you think the Romans didn't teach their legionaries to grapple, if it's so effective? Because they would have lost every damn battle!"

I am not familiar with Roman training but as a Marine we were taught a combination of direct attacks, throwing, and grappling. I believe we are a very effective fighting force.

Historically, we did pretty well in hand to hand against the Japanese and their martial arts.

Blogger Meimou January 09, 2019 2:39 PM  

Vox, Richard Spencer got sucker punched while he was giving an interview and his first response was to back away and fix his hair. What technique is this?

Beautiful one fu.

Blogger The Cooler January 09, 2019 2:40 PM  

I was in everything from minor altercations to full on melees at least 5 nights per week for 4 years; there's not really any one tool in the box I used more than another. Outside the bar/club, however, my experience with melees is once; everything else I ever saw or was directly involved with was one on one, for the most. I don't know how or why Vox took so many trips to Meleeville, but hey, if that's his experience then that's what it is. Anyway, I promise, y'all, you're gonna want to try and get well-rounded. It's just that simple because you just never know.

Blogger Dirk Manly January 09, 2019 2:40 PM  

@72


>> "keep the other guys off your back"

> How is it your friends are not ALSO fighting like hell against the other guys? They're your bodyguards while you two 'champions' go at it? Or it is just your phrasing is drawing the wrong picture?

Because most civilized men don't want to escalate the situation if there is no reason to do so -- they know that if you turn a 2-man altercation into a wall-to-wall bar brawl, bad things are going to happen, and nobody's going home without getting booked at the police station.

If it doesn't look like someone is going to die, civilized men are just going to let it go as a dominance game between the two parties (even if it's not a mutual dominance game). The random factor is -- Is my friend's opponent a civilized man who's just an aggressive drunk? Or is he some ghetto-dweller, who's likely to pull a knife, or have a friend who is going to strike MY friend on the back of the head the first time an opportunity presents itself?

For men, even guns-and-artillery-and-tanks warfare is still just a dominance game.

One of the things the Soviet Red Army found out when they created some all female infantry units is that women don't understand "fighting as a dominance move." Male units had no problem with taking an objective (say a small hamlet in German hands), and then stop fighting once all the Germans were off of the objective.
NOT SO with the female infantry companies. They would pursue the Germans until either all of the Germans were dead, or all of themselves were incapacitated or dead , completely ignoring their (male) commanders to stop pursuing and get back on the objective.
Thus caused such command and control problems (and unexpected losses, because once they pursued too far, the women were penetrating deeper into German lines, becoming increasingly
vulnerable to counter-attack from their flanks).

The Russian imperial army successfully used all female battalions in WW1 (several were raised... by other women who served as their commanders). So, the Red Army's experiment was not without precedence. But the more free-wheeling, less controlled fighting style of WW2 proved incompatible with female psychology. It was such a failure (in unnecessarily high casualty rates -- most of which were suffered in the pursuit, after the objectives were already taken) that the Red Army policy was changed to prohibit forming all female infantry units ever again.

Basically, men understand the purpose of limited contact and also de-escalation of a fight, even when defending one's soil from a foreign invading army. Women don't.

Blogger VD January 09, 2019 2:47 PM  

Accepting that definition, Rogan could beat Vox handily in a ring fight, and Vox could continue to claim Rogan doesn't know how to win a REAL fight.

You're conflating two different discussions. Don't do that. And I would never pull that sort of gamma secret king nonsense.

Blogger VD January 09, 2019 2:47 PM  

I believe we are a very effective fighting force.

Let's just say I have very good reason to be unimpressed with USMC hand-to-hand capabilities....

Blogger Uncle John's Band January 09, 2019 2:49 PM  

Just stay away from a thumb-wrestling match.

Blogger Patrick Charles January 09, 2019 2:50 PM  

Makes sense, thanks for your answers.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 09, 2019 3:05 PM  

I just started training with the Bas Rutten MT school, but I'm under no illusions of becoming a street fighter or Muay Thai champion. It's really to get in better shape and supercharge my conditioning. And if I get a little more dangerous in the process...win/win.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 09, 2019 3:07 PM  

Our reputation isn't really focused on our hand to hand prowess. Except when we're drunk. Then we're awesome!!

Blogger The Kurgan January 09, 2019 3:29 PM  

Dammit Vox, fake moon landings, hypnosis and now martial arts. All topics I have spent years doing. It’s like you’re forcing me to make another video.
What’s next? Hunting? Or... dare I say it...
MOON NAZIS!

Blogger Resident Moron™ January 09, 2019 4:00 PM  

Where are we from?

The Dark Side of the Mooooon!

Blogger lordabacus January 09, 2019 4:31 PM  

"I would never pull that sort of gamma secret king nonsense."

Honestly, it was fairly wrong-headed of me to suggest that, or that you would consider modern MMA "play-fighting."

I maintain a hope that this fight actually will happen, because the only way to properly settle this question is to run the experiment.

Blogger Brian January 09, 2019 4:50 PM  

I fought WEKAF in the 90s. That block description brought back memories. We just universally stopped throwing kicks like that. Kali principles underlie everything else I do now, from judo to Krav.

I mean this respectfully, I think a conversation about social vs predatory violence and how those two categories of interaction differ from combat or sport violence would clarify this discussion. I think most of you have read Miller and MacYoung. Or not, I don’t want to argue.

Blogger Wishing Star January 09, 2019 5:58 PM  

Vox is right about fighting on the street. My observation is, if I have to fight, I have to shoot.

Blogger Ingot9455 January 09, 2019 7:11 PM  

Kali/Phillipine martial arts also have point-of-elbow blocks against incoming straight punches where the idea is to have the fist of the opponent drive into the 'point' of your elbow. If your opponent hasn't made a really good tight fist, it'll break the fingers open and damage them, maybe break them because the point of your elbow is much tougher than the fingers in the fist. It's like punching the tip of a rapier.

If you look at the Tito Ortiz vs. Chuck Liddell fight #2 at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fDPO3s9cvM he's trying to do exactly that at the very beginning - trying to get Liddell to punch his elbows one way or another. Liddell doesn't look to like it, but he still wins. (Obviously, in UFC, the fist is taped secure and then gloved, giving you some benefit against the technique.)

Blogger a - k January 09, 2019 7:43 PM  

People getting upset about Vox's comments about X...

I watch the videos and read the blog to get his thoughts on things he choose to write about. Make up your mind about the validity of anything he says rather than taking it as an attack on your world view.

As for the fellow Marine above, the Roman youth all knew how to wrestle. That's being a boy 101 in an era of iron age warfare. It's the basis of any sort of melee combat in the era because it's a basic life skill to not be physically manhandled. Modernity flipped it to where grappling ability and being in-shape is not common. By the time a young man went into the Legion they all could throw javelins and fight, many could forage and majority had some training in trades. Grappling skill is very important and it's a great skill in no small part because you can train hard daily without risking as substantial injury as boxing or swordplay.

Blogger Dirk Manly January 09, 2019 7:43 PM  

@107

>> I believe we are a very effective fighting force.

> Let's just say I have very good reason to be unimpressed with USMC hand-to-hand capabilities....

An effective fighting force when it gets down to hand-to-hand are the ROK army and marines (South Koreans). USMC personnel who have fought (competitive bout or otherwise) are generally terrified of them. I believe the Marine Combat Course practice of "breaking nerves" (to increase pain tolerance) comes from serving alongside the Koreans in the 1950's. Both army and marine corps personnel I know who have done tours of duty in "cease fire" Korea tend to speak in awe of the punishing fights the ROKs get in amongst themseelves -- FOR FUN.

Of course, the threat of the crazy regime up north, heavily armed with an insanely brainwashed populace, threatening to literally push them into the sea, combined with the memory of when that was almost accomplished only several decades ago probably provided a LOT of motivation for the typical ROK soldier or marine to endure such mutual beatings, enjoy it, and look forwards to more in the future.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 09, 2019 9:08 PM  

We ain't terrified of jack shit.

Blogger Welsh Woodsman January 09, 2019 9:33 PM  

I’ve seen Rogan show and immediately hated the guy. It was the career ending interview with Milo. His smugness and subtle condescension ..especially when Milo was talking about the horrible stuff that happened to him as a kid - pissed me off. I’ve hated Rogan ever since.
He’s a subtle bully.
It’s laughable to see pictures of him hunting. The jerk off may be able to kill an elk or deer.. but it’s quite clear he is no woodsman.

Blogger Patrick Charles January 09, 2019 9:37 PM  

@117 This is the sort of technique I was wondering about in my comment above. I can't imagine such a technique would be as damaging to the opponents hands in MMA for the reasons you listed, but still an interesting idea for self-defense that I hadn't heard of.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 09, 2019 9:42 PM  

16 in the clip
1 in the hole
Nate Dogg bout to make some bodies turn cold

Works every time

Blogger Jack Amok January 10, 2019 4:02 AM  

Thanks Vox for bringing back a memory for me. My dad was a really good amateur boxer and he taught me to box. When Vox said "poking" I suddenly remembered my Dad saying "Don't poke at him son, that won't do any good. No point hitting a guy if he's not going to notice you did it."

Blogger Dirk Manly January 10, 2019 4:59 AM  

@120

"We ain't terrified of jack shit."

Did you ever play with the ROK's?

Blogger Avalanche January 10, 2019 5:44 AM  

@50 "going to the ground"

My husband, when asked if he liked watching MMA (he'd been a street fighter in his youth), said: "nah, it was mostly just two guys on the ground f__cking." (Less delicate phrasing than a 'puddle' ...)

Blogger Avalanche January 10, 2019 7:15 AM  

@101 "an actual bout"

Do you not even see you're still stuck in your play-fighting frame?! A fight is not "bout."

Thinking back on that floppy round-house kick Rogan gave that heavy bag in the video, and Vox explaining clearly how that spinning-thing leaves him off-balance and his back WAY open: so, in your "bout" -- Rogan starts his spinney-thing, and Vox kicks out his front knee.

OH -- you meant you STILL wanted a play-fight, so no knee kicks allowed?

Q.E.D. Vox wins. (Every time!)

Blogger Avalanche January 10, 2019 7:17 AM  

@102 "Historically, we did pretty well in hand to hand against the Japanese and their martial arts. "

And...."historically" .. you wanna describe the height and mass differences between little thin Japanese men, and American men of WWII era?

Things that make you go "hmmmmmm."

Blogger Avalanche January 10, 2019 7:20 AM  

@113 "Where are we from?
The Dark Side of the Mooooon!"

(Does that make you Chinese?)

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 10, 2019 7:48 AM  

We took on seven Chinese divisions to one in the Chosin, Dirk. If I had to take on the ROK's I'd probably die, but I wouldn't wail about being fucking terrified.

Blogger lordabacus January 10, 2019 10:08 AM  

@127 "You meant you STILL wanted a play-fight, so no knee kicks allowed?"

Knee kicks are allowed in every MMA rule set that I am aware of, at the very least in all the major promotions: UFC, Bellator, ONE. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V6Kx6rYywQ

"Rogan starts his spinney-thing, and Vox kicks out his front knee."

Maybe, or Rogan sets it up perfectly and it lands. Neither of us knows what will happen. That's why having them fight, with the most limited rule set possible (maybe even without gloves, as Rogan has advocated for MMA in the past), is the best way to settle the question of whether Rogan knows how to fight. That Vox knows how to fight is well-established. So if Rogan can beat him, so does he.

Blogger Dirk Manly January 10, 2019 10:46 AM  

So, then, your answer is no.


I was in Korea a couple years ago, spending our days on the beach building 2 miles of pipeline, connecting to a navy Beach Transfer Unit, and connecting to a ~250,000 gallon fuel bag farm and pump station which we also built, doubling back on the beach to simulate the first two miles of progress inwards. (An actual fuel farm would hold over 1 million gallons)

Then we operated the whole thing, then tore it down after the conclusion of the week-long exercise. It was kind of like the Korean equivalent of a REFORGER exercise, but built on the premise that the South Koreans had been collapsed to an area approximating the Pusan Perimeter at the time of the arrival of Task Force Smith.

One day, I watched some ROK Marines use a section of this beach as an un-bounded fighting ring, and absolutely pummel the crap out of each other for a solid 15 minutes without let-up, and then, at the command of their platoon sergeant, stop fighting, laughing while they were forming
up, and march off the beach in good order,
with nobody limping, despite obviously painful injuries (bloody noses, lips and cheeks).

A couple days later, I watched a platoon of ROK Marines do 2 hours of PT in waist deep in the ocean along the shore while my company was setting up a beachhead pipeline. This was mid-March and the water temp was around the freezing point of fresh water.

Makes what I've seen of the SEAL's cold water conditioning in their qualification school look positively comfortable by comparison.

The ROK Army and Marines are in a unique situation -- their meager army experienced being close to pushed into the sea in August 1950.

I've seen USMC train -- nothing like what I saw the ROK Marines doing in the mere 14 days I was there. And this wasn't something like Marine Combatives School between USMC boot camp and the MOS-specific A-school. This was all garrison troop stuff. And at a base at the opposite end of the country from the DMZ line.

During the exercise, we were quartered in tents at MCI Camp Mu Juk, inside the 1st ROK Marine Division base.

Blogger Brian January 10, 2019 12:35 PM  

Re: fist destruction:

We had a few good workable movements for fist destruction in Lacosta-Inosanto. I have hurt a lot of fists using them. You might be senior to me in the art, tho, so no affrontery meant. Let me know if you want a video, VD. If not no sweat.

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