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Friday, February 22, 2019

A tale of two social credit systems

In truth, the Chinese system sounds considerably more just and rather preferable to the current US system:
Millions of Chinese individuals and businesses have been labelled as untrustworthy on an official blacklist banning them from any number of activities, including accessing financial markets or travelling by air or train, as the use of the government’s social credit system accelerates.

The annual blacklist is part of a broader effort to boost “trustworthiness” in Chinese society and is an extension of China’s social credit system, which is expected to give each of its 1.4 billion citizens a personal score.

The social credit system assigns both positive and negative scores for individual or corporate behaviour in an attempt to pressure citizens into behaving.

Human rights advocates, though, worry that the arbitrary system does not take into account individual circumstances and so often unfairly labels individuals and firms as untrustworthy.

Over 3.59 million Chinese enterprises were added to the official creditworthiness blacklist last year, banning them from a series of activities, including bidding on projects, accessing security markets, taking part in land auctions and issuing corporate bonds, according to the 2018 annual report released by the National Public Credit Information Centre. The centre is backed by the National Development and Reform Commission, China’s top economic planner, to run the credit rating system.

According to the report, the authorities collected over 14.21 million pieces of information on the “untrustworthy conduct” of individuals and businesses, including charges of swindling customers, failing to repay loans, illegal fund collection, false and misleading advertising, as well as uncivilised behaviour such as taking reserved seats on trains or causing trouble in hospitals.

About 17.46 million “discredited” people were restricted from buying plane tickets and 5.47 million were restricted from purchasing high-speed train tickets, the report said. Besides restrictions on buying tickets, local authorities also used novel methods to put pressure on untrustworthy subjects, including preventing people from buying premium insurance, wealth management products or real estate, as well as shaming them by exposing their information in public.
Contrast this with the US system, where you can't go to college or get a job in academia if someone suspects of insufficient enthusiasm for blacks, gays, women, or [fill-in-the-blank], you can't have a bank account if someone believes you have engaged in hate speech, you can't raise funds if someone suspects you of insufficient enthusiasm for Jews, and you can't win government contracts if you don't agree to do business with Israel.

At least the Chinese know the score and know that the social credit system is based on upholding things the Chinese people traditionally support. Wouldn't most American people prefer a transparent system that actually benefits normal Americans and American traditions rather than an unpredictable one that benefits foreigners, degenerates, and foreign countries?

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82 Comments:

Blogger bobby February 22, 2019 5:57 AM  

First reaction: Omigawd, he's completely without a filter if he sees a possibility to shock people. He's praising Communist China!

Second reaction: Damn. He's right.

Blogger pdwalker February 22, 2019 5:58 AM  

In many areas, Chinese have more freedoms than many North Americans do today - as long as you know where the boundaries are.

It's a sad thing to observe.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 22, 2019 6:13 AM  

Oh please you haters while the Chinese will be stuck with their social credit system and no way out of it we here in the land of the free and home of the brave have Dennis Prager, Ben Shapiro and a whole host of wonderful people who will play lawyer and help you out of our Cultural Marxist social credit jail, maybe.

Isn't being a second class citizen grand?

Blogger Tatooine Sharpshooters' Club February 22, 2019 6:13 AM  

If the Chinese social credit system dings people for having too many cats, unnaturally colored hair, or a triple digit BMI, I'm all in.

Blogger Longtime Lurker February 22, 2019 6:22 AM  

17.46 million "discredited" people in China.

63 million "discredited" people in America.

You know who you are!

Blogger Fargoth February 22, 2019 6:36 AM  

And does it EVER benefit foreigners first and foremost. When I roll into work at the biomedical facility, I've gotta shake my head in respect to the Chinese. They've stacked our research labs so deep that you have Chinese embedded in a US lab for 20 years surrounded by such a strong diaspora that after two decades their English hasn't risen above a first-grade level.

Blogger The Cooler February 22, 2019 6:39 AM  

They are both arbitrary extremes. Trying to figure out which one leans more capricious is the happy good times fun part.

Can I lie my way into "trustworthiness" in the Chinese system?

Blogger Salt February 22, 2019 6:52 AM  

If a list were to be one of benefiting Americans and traditions, wouldn't it be called a whitelist?

Blogger Thought Criminal February 22, 2019 6:53 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Thought Criminal February 22, 2019 6:55 AM  

Geez, Vox is teasing us yet again.

On a related note, Savage Troll would be a great band name.

Blogger Rickaby007 February 22, 2019 6:56 AM  

https://8ch.net/pol/res/12836668.html

Caught the news? Apparently they've already engineered super intelligence ("mental superpowers"). Meanwhile, West just gets raped by Jews who flood it with noggers and people from all genetic garbage dumps. We'll involute and devolve into something along the lines of a neo-Brazil. That's if we aren't harvested for our organs and taken off to labs as guinea pigs while the strip mine our entire countries of resources to develop a giga-state...

Blogger Stilicho February 22, 2019 6:57 AM  

Wouldn't most American people prefer a transparent system that actually benefits normal Americans and American traditions rather than an unpredictable one that benefits foreigners, degenerates, and foreign countries?

Yep

Blogger tdcommenter February 22, 2019 7:03 AM  

Analogously, can Americans oppose clitorectomies without being rank hypocrites? After all, genital mutilation of children is allowed, funded, and coerced in some cases. Only, it is called gender reassignment. At least clitorectomies are reversible.

Blogger Stilicho February 22, 2019 7:05 AM  

Once, our cultural norms and social pressure did a good job of enforcing such normality. Then our government made such enforcement illegal with "civil rights" legislation while importing a new society.

Why, I'm beginning to think it is time to import a new government.

Blogger Kari Hall February 22, 2019 7:06 AM  

More things change the more they stay the same! This is no different then putting someone in the stocks on display at the town square; making their actions known to all and thereby holding them accountable to all.

Blogger bobby February 22, 2019 7:10 AM  

"Wouldn't most American people prefer a transparent system that actually benefits normal Americans and American traditions . . . "

Sure.

But look at who's running our own social credit system. Look at who enforces our Twitter pile-ons and Facebook bannings and all of the various social-media witchhunts.

It's the "progressive" people who look at the Chinese Communist society approvingly. They like their goals, and they really like their tools.

I wish someone would make a serious effort to design and promote a version of Twitter on which "normal" Americans are welcomed and feel welcome. That's the only way we're going to avoid our own social-credit annihilation by the progs.

I heard rumors of such a system recently . . .

Blogger Emmett Fitz-Hume February 22, 2019 7:14 AM  

Tatooine Sharpshooters' Club wrote:If the Chinese social credit system dings people for having too many cats, unnaturally colored hair, or a triple digit BMI, I'm all in.

If you add Tattoos to that list, with extra weight given to disgusting ass tattoos across the bosom that say things like 'Haterz Gonna Hate' and 'No Regerts', while having their first 3 kids births and deaths memorialized on their bicep, I'm in. I like this plan.

Blogger Jamie-R February 22, 2019 7:16 AM  

The Chinks scare the crap out of Soros because he represents the elite of Jewish tradition that makes its coin out of swindling & deceiving, the Chinese system represents an existential threat to them.

Blogger jijijeac February 22, 2019 7:21 AM  

at least china is trying some sort of government run meritocracy. a strong central government is not always bad but tell that to americans and other anglo saxons who love the "freedom" to be degenerates. meritocracy always prevales over degenerates and fake freedom

Blogger Robin February 22, 2019 7:21 AM  

I spent several years living and working in China, and cautiously agree with Vox. The level of unreliability and dishonesty in business dealings there was unimaginable. While the average chinaman on the street was friendly, entering into any sort of contractual relationship was asking to be screwed. I would routinely advise other foreigners against doing business there without ironclad safeguards, which are hard to come by.

Chinese society is incredibly low-trust, because it’s based on “guanxi”, social and familial connections, rather than any moral standard. Anyone outside that web is fair game. Without any threat of consequences or other check on their behaviour, once a Chinese person got out of sight of authority they would more or less do what they wanted. As a foreigner it was easy to stay apart from that, laugh and say “this is China” but it must be maddening to try and govern the country.

So yeah, while I’m no fan of central planning and control, I do like the fact that their standards seem to include honesty and fair dealings rather than support for purple hair and biologically female penises.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 22, 2019 7:23 AM  

"Conservatives" are still stuck in the notion that they can appeal to authority, hell they still think they are equal, sure. Go ahead ask one of the favored of the Cult Marx totems if you are their equal. If you asked Ben Shapiro or our man Dennis P. that they of course would say you are their equals with a list of qualifications so long it would rival an entertainment law contract.

Reduction to Hitler I would say we conservatives especially the whites ones are as Jews to the Reich say about 1934 or 35.

Blogger Dave Dave February 22, 2019 7:25 AM  

Those who hold power in America do not represent Americans. The country will break apart because of this. The Empire is degenerating and falling to pieces where China is growing stronger. The Chinese know what is valued and what is not, and the rules of society are very clear there. They recognise that society places low value on individual human life, so they can build skyscrapers and manufacture things so cheaply and easily.

Blogger LZ February 22, 2019 7:30 AM  

The Chinese system is easier to game because it's bureaucratic and rules based, rather than a capricious mob.

Blogger LZ February 22, 2019 7:35 AM  

How is it different to get points for praising Xi and the CCP versus praising trans children on social media? In the Chinese system you keep gaining points, but in the US system the capricious mob can zero out your account on a whim because 5 years ago you made a contextual joke that they take out of context and use to paint you as an enemy of the revolution.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 22, 2019 7:39 AM  

"Can I lie my way into "trustworthiness" in the Chinese system?"

Yeah, see, there's the breaks is my estimation.

Over here the enforcement is unofficial and effectively conducted by mobs of randoms for the main, who aren't particularly observant in many cases. Easy enough to slip past if/when you need to, or just stay under the radar in the first place and deal with them by slightly less direct or immediate means.

Over there they may not be stigmatizing and penalizing as quickly, widely, and maliciously as over here... yet... but when they inevitably are, even if it takes five hundred years for them to get there, it's going to be far, far worse.

On the scale of how a society deals with bad-actors when it becomes too large for everyone to intuitively know who the cheats, scammers, and grifters are, China is undoubtedly taking the next steps in the evolution of making larger cohesive societies possible. Eventually everyone else will either follow or find themselves rife with parasites they can't eliminate.

As far as whether gov should have that power, it would certainly be more ideal for private individuals to run it voluntarily, but barring the ability and/or will of the people to do so for themselves on a distributed scale/system, government will and should take it up.

Blogger Dave Dave February 22, 2019 7:46 AM  

@19. If you consider nepotism and corruption as meritocracy, yes. China "solves" the problem of corruption by building it into the system. It's meritocratic in the sense that if you can get away with something, you deserve the reward. There's an expected amount of corruption at each level of a government, and overstepping that will usually get you removed in some fashion. There is no morality in China, only family and the game. They put family first, China second last and everyone else last. If you're a Westerner, you literally cannot understand how the Chinese mind works. We can observe but we can't understand.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 22, 2019 7:50 AM  

The Chinese system will solve the problem of wandering bad-actors, but only by empowering systematic corruption.

Blogger Dave Dave February 22, 2019 7:50 AM  

I would like to remind everyone here that the Chinese will lie to your face, even when you both know it's a lie, and double down until you change your offer. But you can still negotiate with them. The power holders in America don't negotiate, and that will get them killed.

Blogger Johnny February 22, 2019 7:51 AM  

By my lights it is not our current system that is the problem so much as our current culture, and if we attempted to implement something like the Chinese system all our current cultural baggage would come along and be implemented in a more repressive system.

Otherwise I am agreeable to some of what the Chinese are doing. It would be better if we were more open with what we are doing.

Blogger sysadmn February 22, 2019 7:51 AM  

A system where legal business can't get access to the banking system if a bureaucrat hints that they don't like that industry?

Good thing that can't happen in America. No business could violate our right of free association or to keep and bear arms.

Blogger Xellos February 22, 2019 7:51 AM  

@20

Yeah. This anon said much the same.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd February 22, 2019 7:54 AM  

Chinese aren't Americans. Becoming Christian doesn't change that.

Anonymous Anonymous February 22, 2019 8:00 AM  

Australia needs social credit. To see who is discriminated against, and how, download the University of New South Wales Equity, Diversion and Inclusion Policy. It is a representative sample.

"The University requires the continued cooperation of all staff and students to promote the awareness and embedding of our equity, diversity and inclusion principles into their everyday behaviour, language and decision-making" - it is a positive obligation. There is no neutrality. Good-think and good-act or lose advancement or entry.

'Diversity' means addressing differences in employment and student intake rates based on 'protected attributes'. What are protected attributes? Every single possible non-majority subset of identity. Race includes 'immigrant status'. Disability includes having AIDS. It even includes "Political opinion, religious conviction...and association with a person with a protected attribute". They can 'positively discriminate' literally, as a contractual entitlement, on the basis of politics and religion, and being or not being friends with the pozzed and diverse.

"Equity...may entail action to reverse the impact of disadvantage stemming from a person or group’s differences..". The university can discriminate on aggregate differences between protected attribute groups. An entire faculty can be 100% Jewish immigrant homosexuals with AIDs with muslims friends who vote Labour (left), and that's equitable, because they are 'non-majoritarian'. This policy is duplicated in all Australian institutions - public, or private sector. The policy receives advisory input from the Executive Council of Australian Jewry.

Guess how many white, Christian, European, heterosexual, conservative males there are in university faculties in Australia? Almost none. Why? We are culled, and/or barred. Australia already has social credit. It's just social credit that rewards identities/behaviours that destroy Australia. Apologies for length.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums February 22, 2019 8:04 AM  

From a gameplay perspective the chinese point system is absolutely brilliant. It's not about falling out of favor with the elites (like in the US), it's about gaining favor with the government.

You can EARN points for doing stuff the government likes thus basically turning points into a form of currency. Points you get from doing something double-plus good can be "spent" by doing something else that's double-plus negative. It's Lex Luthor level of devious. Being a gamer for most of my life, I can't help but fantasize about what I could get away with in such a system and I know for a fact the house always wins.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales February 22, 2019 8:09 AM  

"or a triple digit BMI"

BMI doesn't take into account muscle.

Blogger bobby February 22, 2019 8:13 AM  

"It's not about falling out of favor with the elites (like in the US), it's about gaining favor with the government."

If Hillary had won, what would have been the difference?

Blogger DonReynolds February 22, 2019 8:21 AM  

To me, the worst part of the American method is the fact that anti-social behaviors may not be defined or specified for many decades but it absolutely reaches back 40 or 50 years.

Both Cavanaugh and Northam were both held accountable for behaviors that were not considered anti-social at the time.

We see the same thing in health care...where illegal drug use decades ago can be forgiven but if they ever smoked cigarettes, they should not be eligible for organ transplants. HIV, herpes, and Hep C, are not an indication of irresponsible behavior, but voting for the wrong presidential candidate or belonging to the wrong organizations can result in a ban lasting a lifetime, regardless of any "positive" behaviors.

ADD to that, the American mania for collective guilt. Even if your ancestors fought for the Union during the civil war and helped end slavery, if you are white you own reparations for slavery. Even if your ancestors did not come to American until after slavery ended, if you are white you still owe. Even if none of your ancestors were ever slaves in America, if you are black you are owed reparations for slavery. You can claim your victim benefits without penalty, even if your racial claim is based on being 1/1240th of that race and everyone's race is what they say it is.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums February 22, 2019 8:37 AM  

bobby wrote:If Hillary had won, what would have been the difference?

The difference is clear, concise rules vs. the whimsical decisions of a lunatic.

Blogger bobby February 22, 2019 8:49 AM  

"The difference is clear, concise rules vs. the whimsical decisions of a lunatic."

Oh, c'mon. Do you have any doubt that the number one clear rule driving the Chinese social credit system is "don't displease us in any way"? Say something bad about Xi Jinping, and you're certainly not going to Chinese Disneyland this year.

Blogger Paul February 22, 2019 8:51 AM  

Yes, but the difference is the Chinese aren’t flooded with the promotion of vice at every turn as we are here in America. As a result, they stand a higher likelihood of clearer thinking and performing critical analysis. Vox is on the money.

Blogger The Cooler February 22, 2019 8:54 AM  

@37 The retroactive, anachronistic application of WrongThink-WrongAct edicts is indeed one of the more disconcerting aspects of contemporary life. And one of the more potentially gaslighting since these edicts, being both transient and dominant, are impossible to defend against.

The Chinese at least spell-out their authoritarian horseshit in no uncertain terms; it's about as in-your-face -- and therefore masculine -- as authoritarian horseshit gets.

We get female, psychopathic teletubby demon whores blowing sunshine up our collective asses while their male enablers and (((enablers))) watch, masturbating with a fat roll of million-dollar bills.

Blogger Paul February 22, 2019 9:01 AM  

I don’t know if you can call it “honest”. It’s really just overt, whereas our system is subvert.

It’s kind of like raising taxes to pay for unpopular programs (overt) vs. inflating the money supply / borrowing from the Fed to pay for likely unpopular, but never discussed programs (covert to the point of being subversive). In the end, those in power get what they want.

Would you rather be raped from the front, facing your oppressors? Or tag-team sodomized from behind where you can’t see who’s taking advantage of you?

Blogger Nate February 22, 2019 9:01 AM  

life must be hard for city people...

Blogger Longtime Lurker February 22, 2019 9:05 AM  

@37: "Both Cavanaugh and Northam were both held accountable for behaviors that were not considered anti-social at the time."

Spot on. But those who indulge in this retrograde answerability are going to be shocked - shocked I tell you - when the same thing happens to them.

Blogger Johnny February 22, 2019 9:06 AM  

"The University requires the continued cooperation of all staff and students to promote the awareness and embedding of our equity, diversity and inclusion principles into their everyday behavior, language and decision-making"

The University of Wisconsin goes beyond this and prohibits discrimination based on creed. If you think of it, Racism, Nazism, and human sacrifice cults are all creeds. Right? Think they give this stuff a pass?

In its core what this is is an assault on conventional culture, and that is any any culture. Discrimination is how societies are set up. If your neighbor pisses on your rose bush and he won't quit even when you tell him to, you discriminate against him. And so it is with all other human relationships. Discriminating based on personal criteria is the way a society is set up.

Implemented to perfection, non discrimination is the ultimate power grab because it completely eliminates the power of the individual to affect the behaviors of others. Whatever they do you just have to put up with it, while the power elite, the system, the deep state --- call it what you like --- discriminates all the time. They just don't call it discrimination. Thus they become the all powerful entity to the exclusion of everything and everybody else.

Blogger Max Boivin February 22, 2019 9:09 AM  

The Chinese are trying to legislate themselves into a high-trust society. I doubt it will work.

We used to have some social rules to follow when we had functional community and people still went to church. There was some behaviour that were frowned upon: being a drunk, being a slut, being a cheater, etc. Those were not illegal but there was a penalty for breaking those rules: gossip.

Having clear social rules is not a bad thing; those rules just have to make sense and to be somewhat clear. In fact, one of the big problems with diversity is that we can no longer agree on such rules.

Blogger spinoza February 22, 2019 9:14 AM  

You are begging a question in support of social credit.

Does free trade not require the lending of trust to a society?

How long before or after the ultimate realization of free trade does the social obligation factor emerge?

People become cosmopolitans without roots strictly for financial gain?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 22, 2019 9:37 AM  

"But those who indulge in this retrograde answerability are going to be shocked - shocked I tell you - when the same thing happens to them."

Yeah, but that will never happen to all too many of them unless we fire up the Inquisition again.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 22, 2019 9:39 AM  

"The Chinese are trying to legislate themselves into a high-trust society. I doubt it will work."

Exactly.

Blogger dc.sunsets February 22, 2019 9:54 AM  

Chinese: Clannish, obedient and stagnant.
Anglos: Out-group trusting, innovative and dynamic.

Without the NW Europeans/Anglo-Saxons created by crushing hardship during Europe's Middle Ages, the modern would would look exactly like the world did a thousand years ago. The Chinese (Asians in general) had a civilization that changed at a glacial pace for thousands of years, much as the Clovis People in North America lived lives unchanged for tens of thousands of years.

My ancestors burned brighter than any prior population of human beings, soaring higher and so much faster that without a graph of human conditions that spans centuries, we simply cannot grasp what a moon-shot is Western Civ since 1500. Unfortunately, the side-effects of what FUELED this moon-shot also sowed the seeds of its destruction.

We gave the world's people innovations they could NEVER have produced themselves, not in thousands of years, causing their numbers to swell like never before. We invented the means to travel from previously isolated place to place. And we treated OTHERS as we treated our previously isolated tribe, openly as brothers we could TRUST.

What. A. Mistake.

Funny part: As outgroup altruism is literally bred out of people of NW Euro and Anglo-Saxon ancestry, what will result will be a world far more crowded than EVER, with peoples who hate each other with thermite-bomb intensity...shuffled together like a pack of playing cards.

The "peace" of the future will be known only by the dead.

Blogger Robin February 22, 2019 10:10 AM  

@31 the only place I found people to be more dishonest was Vietnam, but I only visited there and didn’t live. India was also full of liars, but at least it was more colourful to look at. At the end of the day it’s just the shit olympics trying to pick which one is the worst of the lot.

@46 I agree. They may manage to enforce more sociable behaviour while the system is in place, but the second the control slips things would go right back to the way they were. Plus I doubt that screwing over foreigners will have a negative effect on social credit scores, because they’re also racist AF. Not that they shouldn’t be, I approve of race realism, it’s just a handicap for naive whites trying to understand how they work.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 22, 2019 10:15 AM  

So it punishes exploitive, dishonest and boorish behavior?
Good luck to the Jews planning on retreating to China.

Blogger DonReynolds February 22, 2019 10:28 AM  

There really is little difference in the American experience from the Chinese program and I should demonstrate this with two big examples.

The Mormons started in New York and moved west to Illinois and finally were driven to the Utah territory...as far away from everyone else as they could get, after considerable violence and bloodshed. That was not good enough. It bothered the Congress and American public what the Mormons were doing out West all by themselves. People simply cannot live that way, so they sent the US Army to make them conform. It took the Army two years to march from St. Louis to Salt Lake City. War was expected and there was all kinds of excitement. In the end, there was no war at all. The Mormons bent to the will back East.

The reason there was a civil war in this country (and all the excitement and conflict leading to that war for decades) was people in one part of the country deciding how people in another part of the country must live and believe. They seldom had any contact with each other, because travel was difficult by horse, but when they heard that SOME people in the South continued to practice the same slavery that had continued unabated for all of the US colonial history, and even their own states until more recent times, it became necessary to put an end to it.

People in Pennsylvania, and New York, and Massachusetts became angry over what was happening in Georgia and Mississippi and Texas, even though they had never been there and never saw it themselves. They defied the Federal law that returned escaped and runaway slaves to their rightful owners. They demanded that slavery be abolished everywhere, even if they continued that same slavery in their own Union states (of Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland, and Delaware) ....none of which were part of the Confederacy.

Blogger Nobody of Consequence February 22, 2019 10:37 AM  

Sorry Vox but 95% are ID-10-Ts and wouldn't grasp what you are talking about. Now 5% could lead the 95% out of darkness but why? Screw those people. It's Galt time.

Blogger Nate73 February 22, 2019 11:14 AM  

The part about not being allowed to travel by train is pretty close to being a new modern day debtor prison. How many people in cities need access to transportation in order to work to replay those loans and debts they are being punished for in the first place?

Blogger Dangeresque February 22, 2019 11:50 AM  

"Their Kafkaesque nightmare is better than our Kafkaesque nightmare."

My current life in America in a nutshell.

Blogger Argus Bacchus February 22, 2019 11:54 AM  

"Wouldn't most American people prefer a transparent system that actually benefits normal Americans and American traditions rather than an unpredictable one that benefits foreigners, degenerates, and foreign countries?"

"Well, it depends on what you mean by normal American." Jordan Peterson

The left uses the Ricky Bobby Rule to determine who a normal American is: if you do not demonstrate perpetual fascination with and deference to all things Jew and Negro, then you are a hopeless racist and antisemite.

And therefore you are not a normal American.

Normal American are supportive of the vision of the Founders that America is a multiracial paradise and a proposition nation.

Juan, Maria and the 46 others who live in that house on the corner and speak no English?

Their poverty is noble, rayciss. Enjoy the cultural enrichment.

And have you tried their tacos??


Blogger dc.sunsets February 22, 2019 12:17 PM  

Is the problem that China's SCS is meant for Chinese and ours is meant for the collectively insane?

I'm reminded by the following before-and-after that leftist people have a much higher tolerance for disgusting things. I guess the globohomo equalists don't see any difference between the photos. https://i0.wp.com/magaimg.net/img/79yo.png?zoom=2

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelphia February 22, 2019 12:23 PM  

I can't believe the hard-on some people on this blog, including to a slight degree the blog's proprietor, have about the Chinese.

I've been to China. The poverty in the hinterlands is crushing, a direct result of the totalitarian impulses that infect Chinese society and inform their social credit system, which is also used as a political weapon, not only a "moral" one.

Remember, this is a social system that killed 60 million of its own people for not toeing the line. Antifa and the rest of the left wing loons are pikers compared to the Chinese.

And it can flip to that again.

Oh, sure, things are "better" in China, but better for the "right" people. It is a centrally planned, mercantilist, crony capitalism. And despite the wonders of people being terrified ot taking the wrong class seat on bullet train, as a group, once outside the lines, they can be cheaters, liars, and theives.

And that cheating, lying, and theivery occur from the highest levels all the way down.

I teach part time at a major university, and it's inevitable every semester that some of the Chinese students I deal with engage in infuriating and immoral behavior to get a leg up. Scions of the rich mostly, they get others to take their TOEFL test for them. When they get here, they cheat on exams, plagiarize papers, make flimsy excuses for missing deadlines, and try to run the clock out on requirements they want to slip away from.

Let's not be naive here.



Blogger Lance E February 22, 2019 12:33 PM  

Styx even realized that America has a very similar system being run by the "private" sector and made a video on it yesterday. Maybe these small glimmers of realization will eventually light the way from lolbertarianism to hard-right.

Blogger Longtime Lurker February 22, 2019 12:38 PM  

@53: "In the end, there was no war at all."

True enough, but the Mormons participated in two massacres at the time: https://infogalactic.com/info/Utah_War

Blogger DonReynolds February 22, 2019 12:59 PM  

Longtime Lurker wrote:@53: "In the end, there was no war at all."

True enough, but the Mormons participated in two massacres at the time: https://infogalactic.com/info/Utah_War


The Mountain Meadows Massacre hits particularly close to home, since the wagon train was from Arkanas and they were headed to California. After killing all the men and women, burning what they could not carry away, they divided up the small children among themselves, which they raised as their own children. Of course, it was blamed on the Indians, but no one was punished.

Blogger Doktor Jeep February 22, 2019 1:03 PM  

Hmmm a social credit system based on OUR society would not be a bad thing. Under our system, it would be possible to appeal a bad score and we get to "face our accuser" too.

Blogger Anthony February 22, 2019 1:05 PM  

The Chinese system makes its coin out of swindling and deceiving, too. But it's not open to Jews, which is why Soros doesn't like it.

Blogger DonReynolds February 22, 2019 1:05 PM  

Rewarding good behavior is not very efficient if you do not penalize bad behavior.

Blogger Steve Rodger February 22, 2019 1:37 PM  

The Chinese credit system is absolutely evil. They have no transparency about the people that gets kidnaped by the police for committing thought crimes and sent to have their organs harvested. Christians in China have to risk their life's to practice their faith hiden from the government. That's why I can't trust Putin and the orthodox church that he controls, they compactuate with the Chinese authoritarian government.

Blogger Gen. Kong February 22, 2019 1:42 PM  

Salt wrote:

If a list were to be one of benefiting Americans and traditions, wouldn't it be called a whitelist?

No kwedit for yoo, white-stuff!

Blogger McJibblits February 22, 2019 1:49 PM  

China's social credit system is a great tool or a dangerous weapon, depending on "the algorith"

Surely we will get a version too... sponsored by google, facebook, @jack, and the usual cultural marxist miscreants.

Blogger Gen. Kong February 22, 2019 1:56 PM  

One of the odd things I enjoyed seeing when visiting China was how many white models appear on the advertising - nearly as common as Chinese faces. There were no orc visages on the ads at all - and damned few orcs to be seen on the streets even in a big city like Shanghai.

Blogger Gen. Kong February 22, 2019 2:03 PM  

Is the problem that China's SCS is meant for Chinese and ours is meant for the collectively insane?

In a word: Yes.

Blogger Expendable Faceless Minion February 22, 2019 2:27 PM  

How in hell do you reverse amputation of the clitoris? They don't save the old one.

Blogger liberranter February 22, 2019 3:29 PM  

Good luck to the Jews planning on retreating to China.

Hah! Exactly.

(((The Tribe))) thinks it has been persecuted mercilessly in diaspora everywhere else for the last 1800 years? Wait till they get a taste of Chinese racism. I doubt even massive bribes to the CPC will spare them that.

Sorry Vox but 95% are ID-10-Ts and wouldn't grasp what you are talking about.

Ninety-five percent? Why so generous? I'd say you're four points short.

Blogger Joe Smith February 22, 2019 3:47 PM  

While I agree with Vox's point, the idea of pinning a number on every citizen that dictates whether or not they get to use trains or, well, live is insane. The fact that America's system of pinning a number on everyone that the person doesn't get to know about until an SJW points and shrieks at them is even more insane--at least the Chinese guy knows where he stands initially--doesn't make China's system any less terrible.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums February 22, 2019 4:51 PM  

bobby wrote:Oh, c'mon. Do you have any doubt that the number one clear rule driving the Chinese social credit system is "don't displease us in any way"? Say something bad about Xi Jinping, and you're certainly not going to Chinese Disneyland this year.

Strawman. I never said the only rule is "don't displease us in any way". You don't pay your loans your points get deducted, that has nothing to do with Xi. Understand that the point system is accepted by the public which should indicate to anyone it's probably more fair than one might think, at least in the eyes of a chinese citizen.

Again, knowing the rules (no matter how insane they are) is always preferable to whimsical cultural faux pas. It's the difference between walking a minefield with 20 000 mines that are clearly marked and walking a minefield with only one mine that is not.

Blogger Lance E February 22, 2019 5:12 PM  

Pretty sure that "compactuate" isn't a word.

I don't find China's system "evil" any more than a financial credit score or a gun is "evil". People can be evil, actions can be immoral, but systems like these are as moral or evil as the people administering them. This may simply be what's necessary to scale societies up to a billion people; we certainly haven't come up with any better ideas.

We could put petty criminals in prison. Or we could simply deny them access to certain luxuries. And we used to have a lot of petty crimes on the books including loitering, idleness, being a Common Scold, and of course blasphemy. It wouldn't bother me to see renewed enforcement of these, and having to cancel your weekend getaway is a lot more humane than being put in the stocks.

China is looking more and more like a Mencist patchwork state these days, aside from its massive scale. Their human capital is a disaster thanks to Mao, but today they've got some pretty smart people running things. If China as a whole became unstable and splintered into a hundred sub-localities with their own forks of the data and technology, which is far from impossible with a billion citizens, then it would be almost identical to the neocameralist vision.

If that looks evil or even scary to you, then it's probably because you're still fairly blue-pilled on democracy, and/or Chinese culture is different from yours and you're projecting your own norms onto them. Their system was built for the Chinese. Ours is built for the globalist elite. We should be demanding one that's built for Americans, not crying about "authoritarianism" like loser conservatives.

Blogger Steve Samson February 22, 2019 5:34 PM  

I'm a rules kind of guy. I am less concerned about what the rules actually are, than that I KNOW what they are. So I could live under this Chinese system... I could have lived equally well in the soviet Union or nazi Germany. In this fallen west, where the rules are fluid, I choose to live by God's rules. Or as well as I can manage. So ironically I will do very much better in this seat of iniquity than I would under the Chinese state-mandated trust system long-term. "long" meaning "forever."

Blogger Johnny February 22, 2019 7:35 PM  

@53

The majority of the people in the North didn't like slavery, but the majority of the people in the North didn't want to act on it either. That is how Lincoln got elected. "Preserve the union" was code words for tolerating slavery in the South.

Once elected Lincoln was very quick to go to war, and the reason was probably the industrial interests of the north. They wanted the South as a kind of pseudo colony, a market for their industrial goods. That and going by the scale of the initial effort, Lincoln thought the North would win easily. It was all a miscalculation.

People don't like admitting to selfish motives, and for that reason I suspect the South never got into admitting that part of the reasons for secession was financial. Being in the union worked to their disadvantage. High tariffs and a lack of spending in the South by the central gov. Instead they came up with all this other, semi heroic BS stuff. Don't know, but maybe it would have turned out a lot better if they had made it about the tariff and advertised their rebellion as a tax revolt. Not a whole lot of people want to go to war to tax somebody else. Part of what lost the South the war was their conceit.

>>Normal American are supportive of the vision of the Founders that America is a multiracial paradise and a proposition nation.

They used to call the different European groups races. Back then multi-race meant different European nationalities. It was the usual hyperbolic overreach that produced the idea that it was all populations everywhere. Hell, they didn't even want to let in the Latins or Irish, let alone the the followers of Islam.

I find it remarkable and upsetting the way we are screwing ourselves over based on this BS moral overreach.

>>Rewarding good behavior is not very efficient if you do not penalize bad behavior.

Regrettably punishment is more effective than reward. Which is one of our big problems. Our unwillingness to punish.

Blogger DonReynolds February 22, 2019 8:15 PM  

@77 Johnny
>>Rewarding good behavior is not very efficient if you do not penalize bad behavior.

"Regrettably punishment is more effective than reward. Which is one of our big problems. Our unwillingness to punish."

Completely agree.
Part of the problem is the nature of the law in Western Society, which is traditionally proscriptive...."thou shalt not" variety.

It is difficult to reward good behaviors when the good behaviors are simply to refrain from doing the proscribed bad behaviors. In such a situation, it is simple to punish transgressors, without rewarding those who do not transgress. What should be the reward for the normal behavior of not murdering anybody else? We cannot simply reward those who do nothing at all, only because they broke no proscriptive laws.

Blogger wreckage February 22, 2019 9:35 PM  

"It's not a violation of freedoms or rights if a corporation does it! PS rights are natural and not derived from legislation!" - LOLbertarianism.

Blogger wreckage February 22, 2019 9:37 PM  

@78 traditionally, the reward for upholding the law is participation in a society that upholds the law. This is one of the areas where the West's untenable notion of universal rights is a problem. Rights may exist in the abstract, but the legal and legislative framework that responds to those ideal rights is intended for citizens.

Blogger DonReynolds February 22, 2019 10:16 PM  

wreckage wrote:@78 traditionally, the reward for upholding the law is participation in a society that upholds the law. This is one of the areas where the West's untenable notion of universal rights is a problem. Rights may exist in the abstract, but the legal and legislative framework that responds to those ideal rights is intended for citizens.

Absolutely.
Western society as I have observed it in Europe and the USA traditionally is not egalitarian. We historically look up to those outstanding citizens and pillars of the community, successful honest businessmen, moral example and family man. There were usually a few who stood head and shoulders about the rest and they worked to maintain their status and reputation and place in the civil order.

At the same time, there were the more numerous individuals who were none of these things and they were not well-regarded, either because of their behaviors and habits and ways, or because of what they had not done during their lifetime. The point being that society was not based on equality in the least, but on the obvious inequality of men.

Blogger Johnny February 23, 2019 8:27 AM  

>> We historically look up to those outstanding citizens and pillars of the community, successful honest businessmen, moral example and family man.

What you are talking about here is the breakdown in culture. Our new notions of virtue do not encourage constructive behavior, and in some ways undermine it.

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