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Tuesday, February 05, 2019

God and the pursuit of happiness

Religious faith is not a psychological problem. To the contrary, it is the lack of religious faith that appears to be the psychological problem.
In the United States, 36 percent of the actively religious describe themselves as “very happy,” while only 25 percent of the inactively religious and 25 percent of the unaffiliated self-identify in this way, Pew revealed.

Similarly, in Japan, those who are religiously active are significantly happier than the religiously inactive and the unaffiliated, with 45 percent, 34 percent, and 31 percent respectively being “very happy.”

In Australia, the gap is wider still, with 45 percent of the religiously active reporting being very happy, as compared with only 33 percent of the religiously inactive and just 32 percent of the unaffiliated.
Man is not made to live without limits, purpose, or meaning. And religion provides all three.

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109 Comments:

Blogger Longtime Lurker February 05, 2019 2:10 PM  

Some people, like me, really do need God to be good.

Blogger Damn the torpedos February 05, 2019 2:13 PM  

Happiness can only be found in doing good with excellence.

Nihilism doesn’t allow that.


Eat your heart out Richard “Religion is child abuse” Dawkins

Blogger James Dixon February 05, 2019 2:17 PM  

This idea does seem to be making a comeback amongst the opposition. I saw someone claiming it on Gab earlier. I assume it's one of their propagated talking points. Refuting it is always good.

Blogger Yordan Yordanov February 05, 2019 2:18 PM  

Of course - how does money or porn feed the spirit?

Blogger rumpole5 February 05, 2019 2:25 PM  

And to think that it is an absolutely free gift that we don't deserve and certainly do not merit - "for many are called, but few are chosen"-- "Oh the depth of the riches both of the wisdon and knowledge of God. How unsearchable are his judgments, and His ways past finding out"!

Blogger SemiSpook37 February 05, 2019 2:26 PM  

The moment my oldest child was born, I knew right then and there that God did indeed exist (not that I had questioned it before, but it only reinforced my knowledge), and that it was incumbent upon me to be the best example for this any and subsequent children.

We seem to be doing okay in the family faith department, but I know that we can do better with a little more discipline and focus. After all, that is the way God intended it, right?

Blogger Robin February 05, 2019 2:27 PM  

I turned it around and it would work great on Jeopardy:

“This concept has neither limits, nor purpose, nor meaning.”

“What is Social Justice, Alex.”

Blogger Johnny February 05, 2019 2:35 PM  

My take on the situation is that the direction of causality is from person to religion, not from religion to person. Thus what these things tell you is the kind of people who by nature or circumstance tend to be religious. And not so much how religion effects the person.

Blogger dienw February 05, 2019 2:38 PM  

Happiness insofar as it is of God is blessedness; it is a joy to have.

Tangentially, the "pursuit of happiness" should really be the pursuit of blessedness; but a non-believer wrote the Declaration.

Blogger Markku February 05, 2019 2:42 PM  

What the word "happy" means today, is what the word "gay" used to mean in the past. "Happy" meant something else.

Blogger Longtime Lurker February 05, 2019 2:52 PM  

@7: “This concept has neither limits, nor purpose, nor meaning.”

And that's why the Narrative is always changing.

Blogger liberranter February 05, 2019 2:55 PM  

Man is not made to live without limits, purpose, or meaning. And religion provides all three.

Most children don't like to eat vegetables, yet without the essential nutrition that these foods provide, they not only won't grow, but will likely suffer illnesses leaving lasting, irreversible damage.

Thus it is with religious faith; without the guidance, boundaries, and obligations that iy provides, we not only do not grow, but suffer often irreparable damage to our lives.

Blogger DJT February 05, 2019 2:56 PM  

99%+ of all humans who ever lived believed in some form of deity. Disbelief in God is at least as abnormal to humanity as transgenderism.

I cannot come to any other conclusion but that atheists have something wrong with them, in that they lack the ability to sense the divine, just as an autistic person cannot sense social cues. Their behavior is manifestly abnormal.

This abnormality is correlated with other disorders as the OP notes.

Blogger Rickaby007 February 05, 2019 3:00 PM  

No mate, being happy is clearly a problem. What you need is a copy of Virulent Nihilism, the vegan diet, and a sterile Asian cat lady GF. A life of atheistic, rootless cosmopolitanism is far superior true meaning. Oy vey, and don't forget the 6 million. Donate today.

Blogger Markku February 05, 2019 3:02 PM  

I've managed to get myself down a conspiratorial rabbit hole that would probably take hours to unpack so that it wouldn't at least sound crazy. But since I don't care about sounding crazy, I'm going to just throw it in there. I believe this surge in atheism has been achieved with Standard American Diet and insulin resistance.

Yes, there is a HUGE connection with autism. The studies are all there. And it's being suppressed.

Blogger BassmanCO February 05, 2019 3:09 PM  

Markku wrote:I've managed to get myself down a conspiratorial rabbit hole that would probably take hours to unpack so that it wouldn't at least sound crazy. But since I don't care about sounding crazy, I'm going to just throw it in there. I believe this surge in atheism has been achieved with Standard American Diet and insulin resistance.

Yes, there is a HUGE connection with autism. The studies are all there. And it's being suppressed.


I have a son on the spectrum and learning about it has made me realize I am somewhere on the spectrum as well. Can confirm that faith has never been easy (although an encounter with the divine twenty years ago confirmed my belief in the almighty). Wife and I are working on getting back to church regularly as life does not feel complete without the meaning in religion.

Blogger Markku February 05, 2019 3:11 PM  

Much of the permanent brain damage is already done before the kids gets his first spoonful of baby food in his mouth, simply because of what the mother ate during pregnancy and breastfeeding.

Blogger S1AL February 05, 2019 3:15 PM  

"I believe this surge in atheism has been achieved with Standard American Diet and insulin resistance.

Yes, there is a HUGE connection with autism. The studies are all there. And it's being suppressed."

Diet isn't the issue. It's age of the mother/obesity. There are plenty of studies that confirm both. They're not being suppressed so much as ignored because healthy bodies and young mothers are offensive.

Blogger Markku February 05, 2019 3:18 PM  

By diet I referred to the mother's diet.

Blogger Markku February 05, 2019 3:21 PM  

I have a response to any imaginable objection anyone might think of, but this is not the place. So, that's the last I'm going to say on the issue.

Blogger R.G. Camara February 05, 2019 3:25 PM  

I used to listen to the podcast "The Last Podcast on the Left". It's a weird, Coast to Coast AM-type show where they explore topics like UFOs, urban legends, ghosts, cryptids, conspiracy inquisitive approach.

Anyway, I stopped listening to the podcast because whenever Christianity was brought up, they hosts immediately trashed the entire concept. One host was so virulent, he would rant about how Christianity was so stupid because it was all about a "magical sky wizard." They were so hostilely anti-Christian it was sickening.

But it struck me how these three hosts were willing to come to study and explore any supernatural or other-worldly occurrence or person, but not Jesus. When Jesus was brought up, He was dismissed as "fake" without any discussion or thought put into it.

Their bigotry and anti-intellectualism when it came to Christianity contrasted so much with their more even-handed approaches to all other supernatural subjects that I can't help but think of Chesterton's quote about ""He who does not believe in God will believe in anything."

What also strikes me now in retrospect was how unhappy the hosts sounded. Despite the fact that their podcast was a hit, and got them so far as being able to sell tickets to people to attend their live shows, the hosts were constantly whining about their personal lives; drugs, worthless parties, girlfriends that came and went--all were sore spots for them on the air. No amount of worldly good could give them the spiritual fulfillment that they rejected when they rejected God.

I fully expect at least one of them to either commit suicide or else be put into rehab one day.

Blogger FUBARwest February 05, 2019 3:32 PM  

Isnt the rebuttal all those happy people are delusional? Therefore the happiness is based on a lie and it's not "real" happiness?

Blogger FUBARwest February 05, 2019 3:34 PM  

That being said, every non believer I know is definitely less happy and satisfied with their life life, even if they are successful, than the believers I know.

Blogger veryfunnyminion February 05, 2019 3:38 PM  

Given the state of public education, combined with the old dictum of ignorance is bliss, you'd think more people would be deliriously happy....

Blogger pyrrhus February 05, 2019 3:40 PM  

I think these statistics understate the matter...Most of the people I know who are atheistic have significant, if not life threatening, psychological problems..

Anonymous Anonymous February 05, 2019 3:43 PM  

Stupidity is a life-threatening psychological problem.

Blogger Careless Whisper February 05, 2019 3:57 PM  

@johnny

I'd disagree based on what effect happiness in the form of material comfort, sexual gratification and wealth did for the boomers. They're one of the most dramatically irreligious groups ever, eclipsed only by their offspring.

I'm reminded of a quote from Peter Gabriel, that I'd love to cite but I'm too pinched for time to dig up a link. The gist was, during the lowest, most miserable times of his life he felt powerfully drawn to Christianity, and during the happiest, most comfortable times he was drawn away from it.
I personally felt the same, FWIW

Blogger Zaklog the Great February 05, 2019 4:02 PM  

Off topic, but the image on your last post made me curious. Is SocialGalactic open to anyone or is it still just invited testers? I see a place to sign up, but I wanted to be sure.

Blogger Crush Limbraw February 05, 2019 4:02 PM  

Augustine wrote - faith comes by hearing, but understanding comes from knowledge which comes by sight!
My translation - faith introduces you to understanding and without faith there can be no understanding - but then you grow in the grace and knowledge of your Lord and Savior - continuously - and you come to know what you believe!
Continuously!

Blogger wEz February 05, 2019 4:02 PM  

When I was an agnostic it was never something I looked upon with joy and happiness. Depression and emptiness soon followed.
I never looked at fellow skeptics or atheists as having a superior position. To the contrary, I noticed that proud and boastful atheists tended to be very self-absorbed, lacking in empathy.
I tend to think of it like Texas hold'em. The atheist (being dealt a good starting hand) almost always brags about having a superior position, but they do this selfishly without seeing and experiencing the suffering of others. This is why high Church atheists typically come from well-off environments, while being completely oblivious or ignorant to the pain and suffering of those who were dealt rags by default and don't have much material or economic hope in this life.
We're all going to physically die one way or another, and life passes us by so fast. Horrific things happen in this world on a daily basis to so many people; it can hit home to any one of us at any given moment.
It's one thing to believe in atheism, but it's another thing to boast in it, given the reality that we all ultimately have no hope within that scenario.
The results are not really surprising, nor should they be since there's no real hope and ultimate justice within the atheists' worldview.

Blogger Tatooine Sharpshooters' Club February 05, 2019 4:21 PM  

All that worrying about taking the losing bet on Pascal's Wager is not conducive to happiness.

Blogger James Dixon February 05, 2019 4:28 PM  

> That being said, every non believer I know is definitely less happy and satisfied with their life life, even if they are successful, than the believers I know.

"If you believe in forever, then life is just a one night stand." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bddSJbj3VGA

Blogger Joshua Potrykus February 05, 2019 4:31 PM  

It's now a bit old, but it's always worth the little effort to go through Vitz's The Faith of the Fatherless

Blogger Jo K February 05, 2019 5:14 PM  

This is just something I woke up thinking about today:

In Christianity, we are born in original sin and must find forgiveness to achieve salvation and enter Heaven.

The SJW seems to have a similar model. To their way of thinking we are born in a sort of original sin. Everyone is, for example, sexist, racist, and homophobic. The SJW goes on to say that we have to find forgiveness. Instead of finding forgiveness from God, we are supposed to look to society. If we do find forgiveness, we are promised a final utopia, an egalitarian world. A socialist world where the healthcare is free and so is the housing and the education, and everywhere we look safe spaces abound. After, of course, the devil known as patriarchy is defeated.

The SJWs even have a chosen people, known as the LGBTQ.

Blogger Nate February 05, 2019 5:21 PM  

everyone is religious. Atheists merely pretend to not be religious because they don't understand what religion is.

Religion is having faith in an idea... such that the idea itself changes the way you view the world around you. All new information you get is filtered through the lens of that idea.

Its why... for example... when we find earth rocks amongst the rocks that supposedly came from the moon... rather than making the obvious simple conclusion... insane mental gymnastics are dreampt up to explain how this could have happened while still staying within the guardrails of the idea we have such faith in.

Same for Darwinism. Same for Evironmentalism. Same for Veganism.

Man is a religious creature. He cannot exist without faith. Which in and of itself... should tell you something.

Blogger Mach Seven February 05, 2019 5:30 PM  

Markku I do hope you follow up on your contribution regarding diet and autism. I think autism is a huge problem for society. It's treated as if it's an acceptable and untreatable disease in American culture, but it must have some causes that be discovered empirically.

Blogger Markku February 05, 2019 5:34 PM  

If you just start watching videos from the channel Low Carb Down Under (all, or nearly all, of the participants of that community are medical doctors) and then just keep following that thread (especially Dr. Jason Fung) you'll pretty much find it all. In short, insulin keeps stuffing glucose into cells. They fill up and overflow. Macrophages attack the overflow, and cause inflammation. This happens everywhere in the body. If it's the gut, you get things like Crohn's or IBS. If it's the brain, you get Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. And so forth. All those diseases where mainstream medicine claims to not understand where they come from.

Blogger Rickaby007 February 05, 2019 5:37 PM  

On a serious not, being a materialist is inherently depressing. If happiness is the act of the mind focusing on good desires, then how is one supposed to be happy believing the world is purely material -- a giant mechanical machine, and, therefore, everything is totally meaningless and illusory? The Asians presupposed this and adopted Buddhist beliefs and practices as a way to self-detach from care, in an attempt to free themselves. The modern Westerner does not even have that. What they have is drugs, entertainment, and an over-supply of cheap, meaningless sex. But those don't lead to freedom but instead enslave the individual. They bring neither meaning nor even an illusion of higher understanding. The modern Westerner is a pig wallowing in their own filth, utterly and completely demoralised, having no future, no hope -- only a pleasure-chemical fuelled blitz through the fast-lane of abjectly nihilistic modernity. Dawkins be their guide.

Blogger OneWingedShark February 05, 2019 5:45 PM  

veryfunnyminion wrote:Given the state of public education, combined with the old dictum of ignorance is bliss, you'd think more people would be deliriously happy....
Humans have a need for Justice, those schools you cite are very, very good at illustrating tons of injustice [because you can't hide the fact that they're failing in any real education] -- and it is this need that has been twisted and warped into SJWs. It's also quite prominent in the "I used to be a SJW" stories, usually by something so unjust happening the cognitive dissonance is unable to be overcome by the natural "go with the flow" mentality the schools nurture.

Blogger Rickaby007 February 05, 2019 5:58 PM  

>Humans have a need for Justice, those schools you cite are very, very good at illustrating tons of injustice [because you can't hide the fact that they're failing in any real education] -- and it is this need that has been twisted and warped into SJWs. It's also quite prominent in the "I used to be a SJW" stories, usually by something so unjust happening the cognitive dissonance is unable to be overcome by the natural "go with the flow" mentality the schools nurture.

Have you read Gatto's work on the education system? The system all thoughout the West is derived from the Prussian model, which was designed specifically to create obedient, unquestioning people for the fascist state. It was later adopted by the Americans during the industrial revolution as a way to train people for factory jobs. The reason why schools have bells and that robotic, rigid format that exists in perpetual cycle is due to the factory training aspect of the system, which was kept for social engineering reasons as pointed out in major meta-education textbooks. The main men behind it from the beginning were eugenicists and sought to use the system to breed obedient people by selecting for obedience, and punishing disobedience, causing the most obedient to be those of the highest social status which naturally granted them more breeding opportunities. Schools in essence have nothing to do with education. Schooling is by definition training and education is by definition enlightenment.

Blogger Mark Stoval February 05, 2019 6:04 PM  

@24

"That being said, every non believer I know is definitely less happy and satisfied with their life life, even if they are successful, than the believers I know."

I can agree with that wholeheartedly.

I would add on that believers who don't follow orders from God are also unhappy.

I talk to God often. Many don't like mystics who really believe they know God via personal conversation but I think that. At times in my life I have done things that I KNEW God did not want me to do. (stopped teaching kids) I was miserably until I complied with God's plan.

I find it so easy just to do what I feel I am called to do and let God do the direction.

If only I could defeat the sudden rages I get at the SOBs on the left and what they are doing to our culture. But then Jesus also got angry a few times himself. There is that.

Blogger Michael Maier February 05, 2019 6:05 PM  

I need to buy a copy of Gatto's book. Thank you for reminding me of that, Rickaby007.

Blogger James Dixon February 05, 2019 6:21 PM  

> Everyone is, for example, sexist, racist, and homophobic. The SJW goes on to say that we have to find forgiveness...

Not everyone. Only white males and, to a lesser extent, white females.

Blogger English Tom February 05, 2019 6:23 PM  

@Jo K

You might want to take the L off that chosen people list as there is,a lesbian civil war happening between the intersectionals and the There's.

And long may it continue!

Blogger English Tom February 05, 2019 6:24 PM  

There's should read TERF's

Blogger dienw February 05, 2019 6:25 PM  

@ 41 Rickaby007
Read Gatto ten years ago and was very impressed.

He writes that early in the 19th century "reformers" - read wealthy progressives - were concerned the the newly freed American peasants would supersede them; in search of a way to control us, they went to both Prussia and India; from India, the "reformers" obtained the caste system to be used in the schools.

Blogger Nate February 05, 2019 6:42 PM  

Hey Maier... Dixon... remember back in like 2003 when we would discuss Gatto here?

Good times… good times...

Blogger H8KU com February 05, 2019 6:44 PM  

Were pagans happier before they were conquered and subjugated to degeneracy?

Blogger Nate February 05, 2019 6:46 PM  

"Were pagans happier before they were conquered and subjugated to degeneracy?"

Paganism IS degeneracy. Christianity saved them from Degeneracy.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf February 05, 2019 6:49 PM  

Even though I'm a strong atheist (unfortunately) I raise my children religious. I'm convinced they're natural inclination is towards belief. I've even begun developing a new argument for God based on Neuroscience and the type of Universals used in Aristotle's term-logic syllogisms. I'm positive that if I continue to research this line of reasoning I'll find Aristotle has already formulated a better argument with a deeper insight (as this always seems to happens to me). But, I'm happy to add a small insight insofar as some case study evidence have provodpr with regards to neuroscience and neuroanatomy.

I need to think more about what it means to abstract terms: like the green from an apple and grass and paint.

We'll see.

Blogger tz February 05, 2019 6:58 PM  

Apparently Tom Woods has not read the Irrational Atheist

But what can you expect of someone who complains the NSA vacuums metadata while having a "private" Facebook data so you have to have everything like location and contacts Zucked up to participate.

Blogger Kristophr February 05, 2019 7:02 PM  

I am an atheist. My limits, purpose and meaning are all self-imposed.

But most midwits ( and a lot of intelligent people ) do not have enough self-discipline to do this. So your point still stands, Vox, regardless of outliers like me.

Blogger Kristophr February 05, 2019 7:11 PM  

Meng Greenleaf wrote:

...


I need to think more about what it means to abstract terms: like the green from an apple and grass and paint.

We'll see.


All sentient beings must abstract. The very word "green" is an abstraction of the intellectual and emotional reaction to being subjected to that particular portion of the EM spectrum being reflected back at you.

I would suggest looking into Alfred Korzybski's introduction to General Semantics and Human engineering, "Manhood of Humanity", and if that is helpful, his main book "Science and Sanity".

Blogger Nate February 05, 2019 7:11 PM  

"I am an atheist. My limits, purpose and meaning are all self-imposed."

uh huh. of course they are little snowflake.

Blogger Kristophr February 05, 2019 7:13 PM  

Oh, and the very memory of dead Korzybski can crush this Jordan Peterson goof like a bug.

Blogger Kristophr February 05, 2019 7:14 PM  

Nate:

Heh. This snowflake is made of tool steel. Try harder.

Blogger stevo February 05, 2019 7:14 PM  

Even when I'm not happy. I still believe. And that is enough.

Blogger stevo February 05, 2019 7:15 PM  

I'm impressed

Blogger David Ray Milton February 05, 2019 7:16 PM  

I agree with Vox’s comments but would take issue with the research. I lived in the buckle of the Bible Belt long enough to know that most religious people’s happiness was only skin deep. Is there anything more useless than a self-reporting survey? Nevertheless, as a non-religious deist type I always concede that not practicing a religion is an extreme oddity. And that even though man thrives for purpose, without religion there seems to be no way to find it... you know, unless you are Jordan Peterson.

Blogger Kristophr February 05, 2019 7:17 PM  

Vox is talking about aggregates. Yes there are believers who are unhappy, but their existence is not statistically relevant.

Blogger Markku February 05, 2019 7:22 PM  

What one can self-impose, is goals. Those are not the same thing as meaning. Now, those goals may have meaning to you at any given moment, but that is not the same thing as saying your life has meaning. If our life has meaning apart from our feelings at a particular moment, then that is something that stays when those feelings happen to change. On the other hand, if you fail to feel at some point that they have meaning any longer, then it's exactly as true to say that your life doesn't have meaning, as it was to say previously that it did.

But for the Christian, it's always true that it has meaning. And if our feelings fail to see that it is so at some point, then our reason can still recognize that it does and we will then try to correct our feelings to correspond with reality.

Blogger Glacierman February 05, 2019 7:22 PM  

The human spirit, not borne of Holy Spirit, is a consumer of all things, good and evil.

When we are born again, the Spirit of God is now teaching that human spirit to be conformed to the things of the Kingdom.

Spirit, soul and body, in that order, is the design which Father has created us to be, made in God's image.

The mind, will and emotions of the soul are usually large and in charge before we are born again, leading the body and spirit, and usually doing so to our eternal damnation.

The soul would be the one which is the driving force behind the vices in our lives which you have mentioned.

Blogger Markku February 05, 2019 7:27 PM  

The end of Revelation says that the final state for Christians is New Heaven AND NEW EARTH. And guess where New Jerusalem - from which Jesus reigns - is? ON EARTH.

It is completely anti-Biblical to imagine some passive existence, playing harp on top of a cloud, for all eternity. The Bible very clearly spells out that when all other events have taken place, the final location is that New Earth. And preparing for our real lives to start when that arrives, is our objective meaning in this life. This life is a preface to that. That's when the real novel begins.

Blogger Markku February 05, 2019 7:31 PM  

The things we do in this life, such that matter in the eternal picture, fall into two categories. Getting new members to this Kingdom, and maturing ourselves in order to be ready for it. Suffering allows certain kind of maturing that is not possible by any other means. Suffering doesn't guarantee maturing - you may as well become bitter - but it is the necessary condition for it. And there will be no more suffering after this life. That window of opportunity is forever gone.

Blogger Markku February 05, 2019 7:35 PM  

Jas 1:2 Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds,
3 for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness.

This is not some vacuous sentiment. It is true in a very literal sense. It is a gift of immense value, and it has an expiration date. And we don't know what that date is.

Blogger DJT February 05, 2019 7:43 PM  

Kristophr wrote:I am an atheist. My limits, purpose and meaning are all self-imposed.

*tips fedora*

Blogger Markku February 05, 2019 7:46 PM  

A Christian's view of the value of his own life flows directly and necessarily from the contents of his belief system. But the only thing that an atheist can say, while being consistent with his belief system, is that he happens to feel a particular way about his life at the moment. And this is as accurate an assessment as not feeling that way later. There is no way to judge between these two, unless you sneakily borrow from a different belief system and try to get away with it.

Blogger Nate February 05, 2019 7:48 PM  

"I agree with Vox’s comments but would take issue with the research. I lived in the buckle of the Bible Belt long enough to know that most religious people’s happiness was only skin deep."

Christians answer surveys like this differently than others... because we have different concepts of happiness than you do.

Happiness is a mere mood. Joy on the other hand is far more real and substantial. Joy is real. Joy is the knowledge that the Creator God of the Whole Universe cares about little pathetic you. Even you.

Skin deep my ass.

Blogger Markku February 05, 2019 7:55 PM  

For a Christian, both his emotions AND his reason have to fail, in order for the Christian to fall into despair. If even one of those doesn't fail, the Christian will have hope. But for the atheist, only his feelings have to fail. If they do, his reason - from within his own belief system - will accurately point out that despair is the rational way of thinking.

The atheist may feel happy now, like there's no problem. It's a beautiful world out there, and we live in relative peace and safety. But ask yourself what will happen, if something perturbs those feelings. What is there to LOGICALLY tell you that there is hope?

Blogger Markku February 05, 2019 8:00 PM  

Now, you may say that your belief system corresponds with reality and ours doesn't. Well, that's the Big Question on the table, and the reason we are fighting. But these are the things that follow if you conclude that atheism is true, and things that follow if you conclude that Christianity is true. You think we are mistaken. Fine. But calling our position a psychological problem, considering these differences, is patently disingenuous. It makes us LESS likely to take you seriously on your arguments for why our view doesn't correspond with reality.

Blogger David Ray Milton February 05, 2019 8:04 PM  

Someone’s sensitive.

I have a masters in theology and worked in those churches where the Christians that I alluded to attended. I don’t need to be preached to.I knew plenty of people who could fake their happiness (or joy if you prefer) on Sunday morning with a big praise Jesus smile and then be in a counseling session with me later in the week with how their life was falling apart. And yes, I even knew some of the same people who took their own lives.

If you read my post, I am arguing for religion, not against it. However, I am also pointing to the very real fact that many Christians (and those of other faiths too, probably) are culturally conditioned to respond “Very Happy” on surveys even when they are feeling empty in side.

Blogger Markku February 05, 2019 8:08 PM  

I don’t need to be preached to.I knew plenty of people who could fake their happiness (or joy if you prefer) on Sunday morning with a big praise Jesus smile and then be in a counseling session with me later in the week with how their life was falling apart.

Unfortunately yes, these days the depth of theological understanding for your average self-identified Christian is "Jesus loves you, and you'll play harp in heaven". It wasn't like this a hundred years ago. That is why their faith in fact fails them.

Blogger Edgar Abbey February 05, 2019 8:13 PM  

Man is programmed with a desire to search for God. To not search for God takes effort. The lack of a search for God is an action, not an inaction. That's what drives this unhappiness. It goes against human nature.

Blogger Archimedes2017 February 05, 2019 8:15 PM  

I was raised a Catholic and went to Catholic school up to the fifth grade. In the Catholic mass they keep the consecrated hosts in a beautiful cabinet behind the altar, a tabernacle. When I was small I was told that Jesus lived in the tabernacle. I remember believing that it was like a portal to biblical times with sand dunes and people riding on camels. At church one day I strained to see the inside of the tabernacle and all I saw was white cloth. I then experienced the evaporation of that belief, I wasn't mad or disappointed. I just thought, "Oh they were wrong. It isn't true what they said." I didn't stop believing in Jesus or christianity but, It did teach me about beliefs. Beliefs are not just intellectual musings they are powerful energies that are a part of you. You hold your beliefs and the good ones need to be cared for and nurtured. When I read the Nicene Creed it makes me happy.

Nicene Creed

We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.


Blogger Lazarus February 05, 2019 8:15 PM  

David Ray Milton wrote:
I have a masters in theology and worked in those churches where the Christians that I alluded to attended. I don’t need to be preached to.I knew plenty of people who could fake their happiness (or joy if you prefer) on Sunday morning with a big praise Jesus smile and then be in a counseling session with me later in the week with how their life was falling apart. And yes, I even knew some of the same people who took their own lives.



Have you considered reviewing your counseling methods?

Blogger Doktor Jeep February 05, 2019 8:20 PM  

When you fear God's sense of humor more than His wrath pride becomes more a liability than a sin

Blogger David Ray Milton February 05, 2019 8:21 PM  

Agreed. Christianity was life-encompassing back then.

Blogger Markku February 05, 2019 8:23 PM  

And not only that, but real theology was taught every Sunday from the pulpit. Your average Christian understood a lot more about how it all goes together. This kind of connected understanding will take you through hard times, when your feelings work against you. An Aesop's Fables version of Christianity does not. You pull one thread, and the whole cloth unravels.

Blogger VD February 05, 2019 8:25 PM  

My limits, purpose and meaning are all self-imposed.

There are noble pagans. I admire them tremendously. But very, very few pagans are either virtuous or noble.

Someone’s sensitive.

Spotted the gamma.

I even knew some of the same people who took their own lives.

And yet, Christians are considerably less likely to do so than atheists. Your "look at meeeeee" argument is neither convincing nor consistent with the statistical data.

Blogger Markku February 05, 2019 8:35 PM  

What we need is for mainstream Churches to finally completely collapse under their own weight, and so get rid of these disgusting, lukewarm "leaders" that pretend to represent Christianity. All the necessary understanding is still there, mainly in old books. Then we need a grassroots revival, that starts from people who actually understand Christianity and can teach people the real deal.

Blogger wahr01 February 05, 2019 8:40 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger James Dixon February 05, 2019 8:47 PM  

> Hey Maier... Dixon... remember back in like 2003 when we would discuss Gatto here?

Yep.

Blogger Nate February 05, 2019 8:56 PM  

"I have a masters in theology"

oh that explains it.. its retarded.

Blogger Kristophr February 05, 2019 9:14 PM  

VD wrote:My limits, purpose and meaning are all self-imposed.

There are noble pagans. I admire them tremendously. But very, very few pagans are either virtuous or noble.

...


Thank you. And I agree.

I cannot stand most atheists. Their atheism must be pretty damned fragile if they must bolster themselves by attacking believers.

Blogger H8KU com February 05, 2019 9:40 PM  

"Paganism IS degeneracy. Christianity saved them from Degeneracy."

How did Christianity save us from the complete hell of degeneracy we live in today?

Blogger Jo K February 05, 2019 10:07 PM  

@43 James Dixon "Not everyone. Only white males and, to a lesser extent, white females."

Yes and no. That's the truly strange thing about the Church of Identity.

You know how Bruce Jenner can be female? In that same way Ben Carson is white. I know it doesn't make a lot of sense, but it's true. Your identity has to be agreed on. You can make a choice as long as the group approves of your choice.

So, yes. All white men must seek forgiveness. The trick here is that everyone is somehow white until they're forgiven. White is just another word for sinful.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 06, 2019 12:55 AM  

"Its why... for example... when we find earth rocks amongst the rocks that supposedly came from the moon... rather than making the obvious simple conclusion..."

Personally I'm ambivalent and don't care very much if we went to the moon or not, but "perhaps the Moon is composed of material from Earth" isn't impressive mental gymnastics, especially considering that the Moon is gradually exiting the Earth's gravity well.

Other than that, fantastic post.

"I am an atheist. My limits, purpose and meaning are all self-imposed."

Solipsistic delusion, particularly with regard to limits.

"However, I am also pointing to the very real fact that many Christians (and those of other faiths too, probably) are culturally conditioned to respond “Very Happy” on surveys even when they are feeling empty in side."

Irrelevant. More is more. Individuals mean nothing to statistics, unless you're trying to claim that Christians are more prone to dishonesty than people whose faiths don't counsel against it.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 06, 2019 1:01 AM  

"How did Christianity save us from the complete hell of degeneracy we live in today?"

You seriously think today is bad on the cosmic scale? When's the last time you saw someone burned alive in a wicker man, or watched an infant roll down the hands of a statue into the furnace in its stomach? When's the last time you had guests over and all your neighbors showed up to demand that you give them your guests for sodomite rape time?

Anonymous Anonymous February 06, 2019 1:17 AM  

Not everyone lives in San Francisco

Blogger H8KU com February 06, 2019 1:18 AM  

"or watched an infant roll down the hands of a statue into the furnace in its stomach? "

We have a holocaust of unborn and born children every year. We have never had such a height of degeneracy not even with the ancient cities God purged. Degeneracy spreads and we do nothing about it. We have no will ourselves to purge the evil from our homelands. We say God will judge them, and they can come into our homelands and displace us as long as they too believe in our God. We say go out and sin each week as long as you say you repent on Sunday. I cannot think of anything worse in enabling degeneracy than saying you are forgiven and get to go to heaven no matter what you do if you say the magic words once.

Blogger John Best February 06, 2019 2:14 AM  

I have been going to therapy for 2 years now, and the system of therapy is just a rehash of the acceptance, repentance, forgiveness and absolution that Christian offers people emotionally. It enables people to evaporate the sin from their souls, in doing so allowing them to find peace with God. It is what I call active emotional evaporation. I always tell people who have emotional difficulties to read the bible, start going to Church, emotionally internalize Jesus as their Lord and savior, and believe in God. This will help them in every way, more than therapy could. My therapist hates Christianity, so it is interesting to me how psychology is going to using the tools of Christianity, just co-opting them and changing their meaning, it seems evil to me now, because they are actually trying to turn people away from Christianity using psychology, which is a much less effective system, which makes certain people lots of money and gives them great power over peoples lives. Another thing with psychology is how complex they make everything, I understand the emotional process and am highly empathetic, I read the papers and books they come out with and lower IQ people don't stand a chance of understand it or being able to help themselves. With Christianity the lower IQ people can understand it and emotionally internalize on their own level and the higher IQ people can do the same on another level.

Blogger Markku February 06, 2019 2:50 AM  

The less expositional preaching (where you just go through the Bible, books in sequence, Sunday by Sunday) there has been in Christendom, the more degeneracy there has been. Fancy that.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 06, 2019 3:02 AM  

"We have a holocaust of unborn and born children every year."

This is true.

"We have never had such a height of degeneracy not even with the ancient cities God purged."

This is absurd. Stop sensationalizing.

" Degeneracy spreads and we do nothing about it. We have no will ourselves to purge the evil from our homelands."

Just like everyone else at different times. It's cyclic. We're on an increasingly bad part of the cycle.

"We say go out and sin each week as long as you say you repent on Sunday."

Church history and history of heresies. You don't know it very well.

"I cannot think of anything worse"

Because your imagination is feeble.

"It enables people to evaporate the sin from their souls, in doing so allowing them to find peace with God."

No, it doesn't. Jesus' remuneration does that.

"it seems evil to me now"

Because it is. Literal delusions of self-righteousness.

"With Christianity the lower IQ people can understand it and emotionally internalize on their own level and the higher IQ people can do the same on another level."

The benefits of having the system encoded by an incomparably superior intelligence that is not only capable, but necessary to the function of the system.

Blogger Markku February 06, 2019 3:12 AM  

Matt 5:13 “You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people’s feet.

The possibility of the salt losing its taste was always on the table. Now there is only the trampling to wait for.

Blogger H8KU com February 06, 2019 3:24 AM  

"This is absurd. Stop sensationalizing."

If you do not see this then you do not have eyes to see or you choose not to see. That your insular community does not weep with evil does not mean the greater world is not a miasma.

"Church history and history of heresies. You don't know it very well."

Is it popular? Yes. Is allowed to perpetuate? Yes. Does it enable degeneracy? Yes. The seemingly infinite fracturing of Christianity is also a curse of degeneracy and chaos.

Blogger Markku February 06, 2019 3:41 AM  

When we are talking about return to Christianity, we aren't talking about a return to the same leadership. In fact, probably the overwhelming majority of existing leadership shouldn't even be allowed in even as ordinary members.

Blogger John Best February 06, 2019 3:52 AM  

@93 Indeed. It seems like the usual evil trying to co-opt and corrupt what God has give us. People react in hate and horror when I tell people to go to Church rather than therapy.

Blogger Jo K February 06, 2019 4:13 AM  

"Go to church rather than therapy..."

I agree with this in theory, but it's not so easy finding a church that isn't broken these days. Somewhat recently I was watching a women's march video where a church allowed Planned Parenthood inside to hand out information.

I mean, Planned Parenthood had an actual table inside the church where they were handing out information and spreading their propaganda.

When pressed, even by a member of his own church, the pastor admitted that he had no problem with their presence.

So just finding a church to attend isn't the right answer. The church needs to be vetted in some manner.

Really, I'm to the point where I feel like I have to go online and come to blogs like this one to be around other God fearing people. I haven't yet managed to find a local community.

Blogger John Best February 06, 2019 5:03 AM  

@98 I do understand what you are saying, I have had the same problem. The Anglican Church which I am of, but not a member of the Church because it is converged by false brethren and sodomites. So my best option was therapy, which helped a lot mainly because I was able to learn and take the useful things from it. I went from being depressed, scared, sad to being calm and no longer depressed, but there is always something lacking without God without something to belong to in fellowship with God. For people like us it isn't enough to go to Church, we need people who we can learn from. We can't learn anything from the false brethren. If the Anglican Church is restored, I will be baptized and maintain the doctrine of God. However for the average IQ people they simply need the fellowship with other people who claim to believe in God, even if they aren't able to learn from them. It has been important for me to learn nobody cares how smart I am, they care more about me being presentable and sociable. So I would say if you are where I was, an Omega, then going to Church is vital for learning to not repulse people.

Blogger LibertyPortraits February 06, 2019 8:17 AM  

I read a book by Dale Martin (you can watch his New Testament class at Yale on Yale's Online Course catalog) Pedagogy of the Bible, namely, what is taught to the future pastors of America. Almost all of the seminaries taught the historical critical method of learning the Bible to its students (that's the same type of teaching Dale uses that you can view with his course). Good theology is no longer taught, pastors are on their own when they leave seminary. Instead, it's just "let's dissect this book to find out its real meaning from a historian's point of view," which is limiting. He gave some good examples of adult theology from the pre-moderns such as Origen, Augustine, and Bede.

So, if you want to do something about the church's future, change how future pastors are taught. Concerned alt-church members should create their own seminaries to mold future Christian leaders. Do what Jerry Fallwell did when he created Liberty University, now one of the largest Christian universities in the world. What good does it do for some 15 member church on the outskirts of a suburb of a tiny city to fervently preach the Word? Wouldn't it be far more beneficial to create 500 hardcore alpha male alt-church pastors? Spectacle Christians don't materially benefit the church (people who go and proclaim to be Christian but don't stick to a church, don't tithe, don't volunteer, don't teach, don't build fellowships with other believers, etc) and their loss doesn't hurt the church any, so why bother trying to fix the church bottom-up when so many attendees are lukewarm?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 06, 2019 8:28 AM  

"If you do not see this then you do not have eyes to see or you choose not to see. That your insular community does not weep with evil does not mean the greater world is not a miasma."

The goalposts stop here. Bad does not equal worst ever. Grow out of your emo phase already.

Blogger Harambe February 06, 2019 9:47 AM  

Atheism is the veganism of spirituality, complete with God-substitutes in the same vane as vegans fooling their bodies into thinking various plant-based items are "meat".

Blogger H8KU com February 06, 2019 4:44 PM  

"Bad does not equal worst ever."

You can deny it, try to distract people away from it all you want that won't change the living hell we are in. Never has there ever been so many degenerates, never has there been so much freedom for people to do evil with zero material consequences. Never has there been the ability for evil to spread. Any example you can pick from long ago history happens here in our world now every day in some way or another. You can see it if you open your eyes and look. People are numbed to the evil by comforts and entertainments while child sacrifice alone happens right next door in numbers unheard of in history like it doesn't even matter.

Blogger James Dixon February 06, 2019 7:27 PM  

> Never has there ever been so many degenerates...

On an absolute basis, probably true. On a percentage basis? I doubt it very much.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 06, 2019 9:32 PM  

"You can deny it, try to distract people away from it all you want that won't change the living hell we are in."

Emo with a lack of imagination. Diagnosis verified.

"never has there been so much freedom for people to do evil with zero material consequences."

False, the consequences are just pushed back further than before in certain cases.

"Never has there been the ability for evil to spread."

Normally I'd ask for extrapolation, but that sort of statement from you I now see as typical and complete rather than atypical and accidentally curtailed. You're retarded.

"Any example you can pick from long ago history happens here in our world now every day in some way or another."

The reverse argument is at least as compelling for most past time periods. Also it would be expected in a universe where consequences proceed forward to have more types of certain behaviors than previously, because every behavior has to start somewhere and it can't propagate backward. Presence of behaviour is not magnitude of behaviour, frequency of behaviour, or ubiquity of behaviour.

Blogger kurt9 February 07, 2019 3:08 PM  

Happiness is often based on a sense of long-term purpose or objective in life. Religion provides this for many (but not all) people. Therefor it seems intuitive that those with religious views will report a higher rate of happiness than those without.

Blogger Matamoros February 08, 2019 5:36 AM  

@17 Markku
"Much of the permanent brain damage is already done before ... simply because of what the mother ate during pregnancy and breastfeeding."

It is called trans-generational nutritional problems and is very real. Every pregnant woman should be supplementing and eating as well as possible.

Blogger Matamoros February 08, 2019 5:40 AM  

@11 Markku
"I believe this surge in atheism has been achieved with Standard American Diet and insulin resistance."

Don't forget the immense part that childhood immunization plays. All that mercury and other adjuvants are there for a reason.

Witness the findings of the Italian government before firing their vaccine board.

Blogger Matamoros February 08, 2019 5:57 AM  

@85 H8KU
"How did Christianity save us from the complete hell of degeneracy we live in today?"

Because we have fallen away from the true faith due to subversion and not being each converted to the Faith - "When thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren."

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