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Friday, February 22, 2019

There goes the dynasty

A surprising arrest of a rich and influential man, especially in light of the connection to sex trafficking and all the conspiracy theories that surround it these days.
Robert Kraft, the owner of the Super Bowl-champion New England Patriots, has been arrested in Florida for soliciting a prostitute, the Jupiter, Fla., police department said Friday. The arrest was part of a bigger operation to uncover human sex trafficking that included the facility used by Kraft, the police said, but the NFL owner was not, as of Friday, linked to that trafficking operation. Police said Kraft was involved in two incidents in the last month at the Orchids of Asia Day Spa in Jupiter and there is video evidence showing the Patriots owner in the act, the CBS affiliate in Boston reported.
And to think that Patriots fans thought they were sick of hearing about TapeGate and DeflateGate.... I note that former Carolina Panthers owner Jerry Richardson was forced out of ownership for less.

But wait, there's more:
Adam Schefter said on ESPN that Kraft isn’t the most famous person — there’s someone else whose name hasn’t surfaced yet who’s better known than Kraft. “I’m also told that Robert Kraft is not the biggest name involved down there in South Florida,” Schefter said.

Labels:

146 Comments:

Blogger mgh February 22, 2019 1:46 PM  

(((Kraft))). Huh.

Blogger Cleveland Screamer February 22, 2019 1:50 PM  

Big name in Jupiter, FL? Tiger Woods? Trump?

Blogger Chuck Finley February 22, 2019 1:51 PM  

Does anyone think this would have happened if he wasn't tangentially associated w/ the GE through his head coach and QB?

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 February 22, 2019 1:56 PM  

Bob Kraft, R. Kelly, and Jeffrey Epstein.

And more to come.

The swamp is draining.

Blogger Ben Cohen February 22, 2019 1:57 PM  

Why are billionaires like Kraft and bezos getting involved with shady women? Can't they get someone who's not a prostitute or single mom?

Blogger Warunicorn February 22, 2019 2:01 PM  

Ben Cohen wrote:Why are billionaires like Kraft and bezos getting involved with shady women? Can't they get someone who's not a prostitute or single mom?

The only thing I can think of is the "no strings attached" angle.

But even then, why bother? lol

Blogger grendel February 22, 2019 2:04 PM  

@5 because they want a whore, not a housewife.

Blogger Guitar Man February 22, 2019 2:07 PM  

Kraft is good buddies with Donald. Hmm...

Blogger David The Good February 22, 2019 2:08 PM  

I had a conversation with my mom in South Florida about immigration and the trafficking that is coming in with it. It's a serious issue.

Blogger VD February 22, 2019 2:10 PM  

Does anyone think this would have happened if he wasn't tangentially associated w/ the GE through his head coach and QB?

Yes.

Blogger FUBARwest February 22, 2019 2:14 PM  

Has the speculation of Trump being the unnamed individual began yet?

Blogger mgh February 22, 2019 2:14 PM  

So why is Kraft and the rest of the johns on the pictured list been released, and the bigger fish has not? I'll guess Bill Clinton for 500.

Blogger Roninf9 February 22, 2019 2:17 PM  

Charlie Sheen once said that he didn't pay women $10,000 to have sex. He paid them $10,000 to leave afterward.

Blogger MagisterLudi February 22, 2019 2:18 PM  

South Florida... LeBron?

Blogger basementhomebrewer February 22, 2019 2:21 PM  

Limbaugh seems like a good candidate for the bigger name. It might be someone else, but South Florida is his stomping ground.

Blogger Maniac February 22, 2019 2:21 PM  

"Why are billionaires like Kraft and bezos getting involved with shady women? Can't they get someone who's not a prostitute or single mom?"

This is America we're talking about.

Blogger Russell Newquist February 22, 2019 2:25 PM  

What are the odds that this is connected to yesterday's decision that Epstein's plea bargain was illegal?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother February 22, 2019 2:27 PM  

Why can't people like Kraft have an apartment of willing women like the Sultan of Brunei does? They could be his "executive assistants for special projects and engagements" that he bones on the side.

Blogger FUBARwest February 22, 2019 2:30 PM  

"Why can't people like Kraft have an apartment of willing women like the Sultan of Brunei does? "

Is Kraft as rich as the Sultan? An apartment full of women is gonna get expensive even if you're worth 6.6 bil.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother February 22, 2019 2:30 PM  

Oh shit...

"Kraft is the recipient of the 2019 Genesis Prize from Israel, widely known as the “Jewish Nobel” prize. It is granted each year to a person recognized as an inspiration to the next generation of Jews through professional achievement and commitment to Jewish values."

I guess that sweet Jewgeld money doesn't buy what it used to.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother February 22, 2019 2:31 PM  

FUBARwest,

I have no idea, and his girlfriend is hot as well, naturally. But there has to be a smarter way of doing this, that's my point.

Blogger Guitar Man February 22, 2019 2:33 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother,

Some feel they're untouchable (ha!). He's probably been getting away with 50 dollar hand jobs for years now.

Blogger Coyotewise February 22, 2019 2:33 PM  

"Why are billionaires like Kraft and bezos getting involved with shady women? Can't they get someone who's not a prostitute or single mom?"

I think that, looking from the outside in at owners of vast wealth is similar to when we look at the behavior of those in really stressful situations of violence or SHTF. We really don't know just how we ourselves would behave in the same circumstances. I suspect that FU money tends to reveal things about us in the same way that extreme stress does.
Mark 10: 24-25.

Blogger Damelon Brinn February 22, 2019 2:33 PM  

Why are billionaires like Kraft and bezos getting involved with shady women?

They don't complain when you [whatever].

Blogger Kat February 22, 2019 2:34 PM  

Nothingburger. The video is of him paying the cashier. It’s only an “arrest warrant” and not a summons because he’s out of state. They have nothing.

Blogger Guitar Man February 22, 2019 2:35 PM  

@25 Eh, I'm guessing they have more than just a video of him paying a cashier.

Blogger VD February 22, 2019 2:37 PM  

Has the speculation of Trump being the unnamed individual began yet?

No chance. He wasn't in South Florida then.

Blogger Guitar Man February 22, 2019 2:41 PM  

"As for the human trafficking case in Martin County, Snyder described the operation as an 8-month, multi-agency investigation. “The tentacles of this go from here to New York to China, in Florida from here to Orange County,” Snyder said."

Blogger Crave February 22, 2019 2:41 PM  

I note that former Carolina Panthers owner Jerry Richardson was forced out of ownership for less.

That's immediately what I thought and pondered whether he would be forced out in the same manner. Politics or tribe? I'm not aware of him being a supporter of the political Right, which means tribe will likely win out and he'll be spared the Richardson treatment.

Robert Kraft is not the biggest name involved down there in South Florida,” Schefter said.

GE and Rush would reflect poorly. I wouldn't put it past the corrupt departments and officials there to fake their participation, knowledge or tangential relationship to those accused.

Blogger SDaly February 22, 2019 2:43 PM  

Why would Kraft go for a $50 handjob over the expense of a discreet mistress?

There was an old Gallo wine commercial with a rich guy drinking jug wine, and an pretty woman asks: "Why are you drinking Gallo? I thought you were rich!" The rich guy winks, raises his glass and says, "How do you think I got to be so rich?"

Blogger VD February 22, 2019 2:43 PM  

I wouldn't put it past the corrupt departments and officials there to fake their participation, knowledge or tangential relationship to those accused.

That's just stupid.

Blogger Zaklog the Great February 22, 2019 2:43 PM  

Just reminding all the Ilk that I’ll be live-streaming with Rachel Fulton Brown to discuss a C.S. Lewis poem tonight at 9:30 eastern.

The stream & the poem.

Blogger dh February 22, 2019 2:44 PM  

The Trump thing is very silly. Very. I have somehow been living in the "blast radius" of three Presidents residences, including Pres. Trump, and it's a total nightmare when he's in town. The motorcade is probably 40+ cars & vehicles long. It's a big deal. He has no ability to move freely.

Blogger Solon February 22, 2019 2:44 PM  

It's amazing how many people can see all of these pedophile operations tied to Democrats and (((Chosen))), and their response is to either stick their fingers in their ears or say something along the lines of "Not ALL of (((them))) are bad."

Well, it would have been amazing to me, five years or so ago. These days, all I can do is sigh in resignation.

It's probably a good thing I don't have the power or authority to inflict justice on these people, because there's a good chance I'd make Stalin's gulags look like children's daycare.

That realization doesn't mean I don't pray every day that God grants me the chance for vengeance. Justice isn't murder. I'm very much of the belief that making them tap dance in midair and letting St. Peter sort them out would be the best option.

Kill them all and let God sort them out, the Lord knows his own. Deus Vult.

Blogger S1AL February 22, 2019 2:44 PM  

What's the world coming to that rich men can be arrested for soliciting prostitutes?? That's only supposed to happen to blue collar Johns.

Blogger Matt February 22, 2019 2:47 PM  

Can't a guy get a handjob from an ugly middle aged Chinese woman without his world being turned upside down??

Blogger JD Curtis February 22, 2019 2:47 PM  

Rush reported this on his show today right after it broke. Seemed a little surprised by it.
I think if Rush had been busted in this last night there would have been an emergency guest host for today's program.

Blogger Solon February 22, 2019 2:48 PM  

They could...

Or they could abuse their wealth and power to exploit the innocent. Which would be more *fun* to a megalomaniac/psychopath?

At some point, you get so much money and power that just being a normal, moral human being isn't entertaining enough anymore.

Plus, they worship the Morningstar. His whole thing is exploiting the innocent and child sacrifice.

Blogger Damelon Brinn February 22, 2019 2:48 PM  

I'm sure plenty of leftists will be fantasizing that Trump snuck out of the White House to fly to Florida for rub-and-tugs with Kraft, but that's because they're projecting. It's what they'd do in his position.

Blogger Jeff Weimer February 22, 2019 2:51 PM  

Bigger name in south Florida?

Rush Limbaugh.

They wouldn't tease it otherwise.

Blogger Damelon Brinn February 22, 2019 2:53 PM  

Tiger Woods has a home and restaurant in Jupiter. That's certainly a bigger name. It's also a popular place for MLB spring training, which is going on now.

Blogger Zander Stander February 22, 2019 2:56 PM  

Why is tail so important that you would risk everything on it(like Bezos)? Why do people believe it is the prime mover, to the extent of, for example, believing the Steele dossier? My soul can be bought, maybe, but not for that.

Blogger Solon February 22, 2019 2:59 PM  

Four or five bedroom apartment cost: anywhere from $250k to $1m or more per year.

Maintaining a harem of, say, five women, who you bang on the side and who are likely replaced frequently cost: depending on standard of living, anywhere from $500k to $2.5m per year. Don't tell me you couldn't find beautiful women who wouldn't be willing to make six figures a year just to be "kept" playmates, this is America we're talking about.

Five such arrangements, apartment and women: $3m to $17.5m per year.

The dude is worth BILLIONS. Those napkin math numbers are barely a fraction of the money he makes yearly just on INTEREST payments/dividends.

You could win the Powerball tomorrow ($300m), take the lump sum ($100m, give or take), and set up one of these arrangements in a week, easy, and still have money left over to kidnap and abuse/murder a couple kids a month.

This is completely ignoring the kickbacks and "donations/gifts" he absolutely gets for being a big player. He could probably pull some strings at the Fed and get more money in his account whenever he wants too.

The word "expensive" literally means nothing when you're at the echelons of power that these people are at.

Blogger Geir Balderson February 22, 2019 3:00 PM  

Life is so short. And, it is apparent that Kraft is not a believer in Eternity. He will be surprised someday as he transitions into the post-life.

In addition, for all of his money and influence, he is very stupid.

Blogger Geir Balderson February 22, 2019 3:01 PM  

Also, I forgot, this is all due to Global warming!

Blogger tublecane February 22, 2019 3:01 PM  

@4- Epstein is the only one of those that actually means anything swamp-wise, and he's just connected not in it.

Blogger Crave February 22, 2019 3:07 PM  

That's just stupid.

Given the area, the corruption of the FBI and other agencies, and the demonstrated proclivity to fake materials implicating enemies of the left for news cycle propaganda is it stupid to anticipate the possibility? "Russia" was created out of nothing.

Blogger SDaly February 22, 2019 3:09 PM  

CAA has another claim of sexual harassment against one of its agents. Former Israeli tennis star (((Amit Naor))) is accused of sexual abuse of subordinates. The victim claims she reported it to the head of the division (((Steven Heumann))) who didn't do anything about it.

Blogger Solon February 22, 2019 3:10 PM  

These people aren't you and me. They don't think like us, at all. You're trying to impart human values, morality, and dignity onto a group of people that literally have no concept of what you're talking about.

They are literally aliens, in every sense of the word except the "extraterrestrial" part, and I'm not even so sure about that part these days.

Tail isn't the be-all end-all for you and me, but to these people, hell, if you've been born into outrageous sums of money and known no other life but that, who's to say that you wouldn't start to view "normal" human wants and needs as completely alien, yourself?

Us peasants down here in the muck have absolutely no concept of how the people at the top behave, we need to start getting that through our collective heads. Murdering a child would damn our souls to hell for eternity. For these people, they call it Monday Funday.

Blogger tublecane February 22, 2019 3:10 PM  

@5- There's a saying about whoremongers: they don't pay for sex, they pay for the girl to leave. Which isn't true, obviously, but does apply in a way to men who could get sex otherwise but want to keep things on a professional level.

Problem with girlfriends, mistresses, sugarbabies, and such is that you don't necessarily get what you pay for. Plus, they have those feminine feelz.

Blogger Cataline Sergius February 22, 2019 3:11 PM  

What the hell was Kraft thinking?

He can afford the top of the ladder call girls AND he can afford to make a sure a "go-between" acts as a cut out.

Probably used his own credit card too.

This was just sloppy. He deserves whatever he gets.

Blogger Solon February 22, 2019 3:13 PM  

Sounds a lot like the Joe Paterno/Jerry Sandusky business.

Blogger Balkan Yankee February 22, 2019 3:18 PM  

And in other breaking news - Singer R. Kelly Charged With 10 Counts of Aggravated Criminal Sex Abuse

Blogger FUBARwest February 22, 2019 3:20 PM  

Worth != has access to. He is worth 6bil due to the value of the companies he owns. The Promethean is a nice example of what I'm talking about. Having a harem is an expense he has to account for which brings up questions he doesnt want asked. $50 for a handy in the quieter solution.

Blogger tublecane February 22, 2019 3:21 PM  

@42- Remember, the centerpiece of Pee-pee-gate was that Trump paid prostitutes to relieve themselves on a bed once occupied by Obama. Which could have excited him sexually, but the main motivations would have been envy and resentment.

Blogger Daniel February 22, 2019 3:23 PM  

Boys really do go to Jupiter to get more stupider.

Blogger Balkan Yankee February 22, 2019 3:31 PM  

"Adam Schefter said on ESPN that Kraft isn’t the most famous person — there’s someone else whose name hasn’t surfaced yet who’s better known than Kraft.

Please God, let it be Roger Goodell.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella February 22, 2019 3:36 PM  

My question isn't the him: it's the her. Why on earth is anyone importing Chinese hookers into ground central of Appalachian hookers, Southern hookers, and Cubano hookers? Or black hookers on vacation from Atlanta?

Who spends money to bring low quality prostitutes into one of the most competitive sex worker regions in the country?

Blogger urthshu February 22, 2019 3:44 PM  

Why are billionaires like Kraft and bezos getting involved with shady women?

The french term is Nostalgie de la boue

Blogger Rebel Skate February 22, 2019 3:45 PM  

While its possible Kraft is just a guy looking for a cheap thrill something tells me this goes deeper than that and he's a mover in that industry, they just haven't said it yet.
So many of the rich and powerful have turned out to be involved in illegal/immoral activities that it is more shocking to find one that isn't hip deep in sleaze.

Blogger R.G. Camara February 22, 2019 3:50 PM  

1. Why is Adam Schefter *not* telling us who this "bigger name" is right now? Is he waiting for clearance from the guy's agent for an exclusive interview? Or is he just holding back because he's protecting someone? Adam Schefter's hiding this information is now a story.

2. Kraft reportedly flew the Parkland kids (David Hogg, the ugly lesbian chich, etc.) to their rallies when they were hot; I believe Peter "I suck Brett Favre's knob" King reported that. He's big anti-gun and Democrat. So when they try to pin him to Trump, remember that.

3. Men pay for cheap sex like this for variety, which all men are programmed to want. Having a mistress or two isn't an improvement if all you want is the sex; its very expensive just for sex.

Mistresses are for men who basically want a girlfriend who treat them as a boyfriend. Hookers are for guys who just want to bang some strange and get out of there.

And in today's day and age of feminazism and #MeToo, aside from the financials, having a mistress is likely much, MUCH worse if it comes out than if you just nailed a hooker.

Blogger Azimus February 22, 2019 3:52 PM  

I don't quite understand - its an investigation into sex trafficking - in that case wouldn't the cops be trying to infiltrate from the outside? As in, a young female cop gets herself recruited or a male cop meets w/ people and says "I can bring you some Romanian girls" and they pay for them, right? But then it says they have video of him in the act, which implies they set up cameras inside and they were just busting Johns. Maybe I don't have all the info but something doesn't quite add up.

Blogger Damelon Brinn February 22, 2019 3:53 PM  

"Russia" was created out of nothing.

And they've still been unable to manufacture a single piece of evidence to support it, not even a deepfake. They were also unable to get a single one of the women they claimed Trump harassed to go on record accusing him, even when they offered to pay off homes and student loans worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's just not that easy to manufacture crimes out of whole cloth, especially when the whole world is watching.

Please God, let it be Roger Goodell.

Too good to hope for.

Blogger Weak February 22, 2019 3:58 PM  

If it were Trump, or even Limbaugh, that would have already leaked and been covered non stop on any network. It has to be someone who the cabal needs to protect.

Blogger Azimus February 22, 2019 3:59 PM  

Dude was born in 1941 - still getting busy at 77... to be fair he is single. This might end up being something more serious, but right now its a nominal (for a billionaire) fine, maybe 30 days house arrest.

Blogger Ben Cohen February 22, 2019 3:59 PM  

Adam schefter has the best sources so if he says it it'll probably happen. He's more reliable than Q.

Blogger Azimus February 22, 2019 4:01 PM  

Its the bubble party senator Mark Rubionor whatever. Fits what we already know except that its a chick not a dude.

Blogger sammibandit February 22, 2019 4:03 PM  

I'll throw my hat in at chance + 5% odds for a Scientology connection. Chance because I'm not invested in the outcome. Add 5% since Palm Beach County has Jupiter (of the OP) and Greenacres, where their office is. They are 42 minutes away by park.

http://www.west-palm-beach.scientologymissions.org

Blogger My 1 millionth internet profile February 22, 2019 4:05 PM  

@64 - It would have to be someone huge indeed if the cabal is letting the virulent anti-anti-Semite Kraft be named.

I wonder if the "Don't Say Boo to a Jew" charity football match is still on? ESPN had been pushing pretty hard.

Blogger Xtian Burger February 22, 2019 4:09 PM  

As to why these people get involved with street prostitutes, have you considered it's because no one will miss them when they disappear? See "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo."

Blogger MortemTyrannus February 22, 2019 4:25 PM  

Maybe they are billionaires because they are sickos. You dont get that high without being a sicko. They make sure of it.

Blogger R.G. Camara February 22, 2019 4:27 PM  

@70 Xtian Burger:

"The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo.

The movies/books where the real threat to the nation are white blond Neo-nazis, and the world can only be saved by a tattoo, ugly, left-wing chick?

Blogger Mark Stoval February 22, 2019 4:37 PM  

Interesting thread. Obviously the man could have used his vast wealth in a more intelligent way than he did.

But unless children were involved somehow, we have two consenting adults having a little fun. So what? Why is prostitution illegal? It is not the state's job to enforce morals: as if that immoral bunch could do so anyway.

Let the church and the community enforce morals. Keep the state out of it.

Blogger Haxo Angmark February 22, 2019 4:40 PM  

@61, your point #2: "(Kraft) is a big anti-gun and Democrat. So when they try to pin him to Trump, remember that."

I do:

pre-June, 2015, Trump was also a big anti-gun and Democrat.

and he is now.

lesseee...who could the "other" B? Probably not Trump. Someone more NFL-connected...maybe Limbaugh, via the ex-NFL apparatchik 2nd wife.

Blogger MortemTyrannus February 22, 2019 4:47 PM  

Funny. Q called this 2 days ago.

Blogger DeepThought February 22, 2019 4:58 PM  

Prostitution? Simple crime. Sheesh.

Over blown hype

Blogger Son of Blob February 22, 2019 5:38 PM  

Sex and Father Time, what a power couple. Undefeated for all time.
Be nice if Mueller was the bigger fish.

Blogger stevo February 22, 2019 5:44 PM  

The use of the phrase "human sex trafficking" makes me wonder if there were other options as well.

Blogger Damn the torpedos February 22, 2019 5:52 PM  

“Let the church and the community enforce morals. Keep the state out of it.“

It’s just “two consenting adults having a little fun.”

Friend that logic is not helping the west. If a transgender strip bar wants to open in my town you are damn right I want the govenrment to stop it with force if necessary. Morality is not subjective. Just because consenting adults are committing the evil doesn’t mean it isn’t evil.

Blogger Latigo3 February 22, 2019 5:54 PM  

So this is what I do not understand about guys like this. He has all of the wherewithal to do anything and he gets busted in a cheesy massage parlor. The rich and powerful have access to exclusive madams that give these old guys women that will do what they want, not just in Vegas. I remember meeting one of these madams that was interviewing one of my construction clients. He went through a lengthy screening process, she wanted to see the house he was building and meet me to make sure that he was for real. Next thing I know, he shows up at the job-site with a pretty 20-something. Heidi Fleiss was not the only madam catering to these people.

Blogger Duke Norfolk February 22, 2019 6:00 PM  

Zander Stander wrote:Why is tail so important that you would risk everything on it(like Bezos)?

Especially for a 77 yr old guy.

Blogger Mark Stoval February 22, 2019 6:13 PM  

@79

"If a transgender strip bar wants to open in my town you are damn right I want the government to stop it with force if necessary."

If you cede the power to "stop the evil" that you don't like, the state will "stop the evil" called your church or even your own family. We got in this mess because the right does not see that the State is always moving leftward and is a tool of Satan.

So few men can see the state for what it is. Damn sad.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother February 22, 2019 6:23 PM  

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-02-22/wall-street-legends-identified-florida-prostitution-sting

More names

Blogger Cloudswrest February 22, 2019 6:29 PM  

stevo wrote:The use of the phrase "human sex trafficking" makes me wonder if there were other options as well.

"Human Trafficking" is what they say about ALL prostitution. It's the new moralistic propaganda. You're not banging a slut, you're oppressing a victim with your $200 tip.

I remember reading William Pierce having something to say about "human trafficking". He was speaking about "white slavery" but since these are AMPS (asian massage parlors) I guess you have to change the name from "white slavery" to "human trafficking". Like "global warming" has become "climate change". He said that most of these girls are not so naive as the media portrays them to be.

They are not being forced into slavery in the sense of the movie "Taken". They are more often groomed by the sex equivalent of high pressure timeshare salesmen, and convinced to crossover.

Blogger tuberman February 22, 2019 6:48 PM  

This sting was suggested, at least a week before the SB, by Anons. A small part of an ongoing crack down. All events like this has a huge role in human trafficking.

Blogger Emmanuel February 22, 2019 6:49 PM  

@82

And so few men are unwilling to crush the faggots and the other deviants by the same tools they have used against us. Chief among them, libertardians like you who even think they're human in the first place. In fact, it's questionable if libertardians like you are human yourselves.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother February 22, 2019 6:53 PM  

Kill All Libertarians

Blogger sammibandit February 22, 2019 6:54 PM  

Personally, I'd rather the Witchmammer General of The Inquisition steps in to deal with sodomites, heretics,

Blogger Kat February 22, 2019 6:55 PM  

I've heard that whole "We can't call for censorship of terrible stuff because then they'll turn around and censor us.


Yeah, that logic has aged really well.

Since the tools we're "allowed" to use are demonstrably not working it seems entirely reasonable to look in the cupboard that every nice conservative and libertarian assures us contains nothing useful.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother February 22, 2019 7:02 PM  

Mark Stoval, listen to Kat. The dire consequences you predict have already happened ,are happening, and will continue to happen. The cat is so far out of the bag, he's in the next state.

Stop with this line of argument. It's a recipe for defeat.

Blogger Mark Stoval February 22, 2019 7:02 PM  

@86

My God you are sloppy. "Libertarian' goes all the way from small government conservatives to hard core right wing Rothbardian AnCaps.

Hoppe wrote that the monarchy was far better than "democracy" and that local governance by one's own nation/tribe was better still.

Rothbard wrote a right wing populist plan back in the '90s that is almost the same as Vox's points. Vox goes further but then he wrote after about 20 more years of deterioration.

So, I'll tell you what. You keep voting and hoping it gets better. Over 2 centuries of it going against you be damned! This time Lucy WILL hold the football so you can kick it.

Ya, right.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother February 22, 2019 7:04 PM  

Your comment is schizophrenic, Mark. Are you the concern troll moderate or the anti voting ancap?

Blogger Emmanuel February 22, 2019 7:06 PM  

@93

Porque no los dos?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqgSO8_cRio

In non spic speak, that means, 'Why not the two?'

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother February 22, 2019 7:07 PM  

I understand spic speak but if you are both, you should seek professional mental help.

Blogger Mark Stoval February 22, 2019 7:09 PM  

@89 @90

Both of you miss the point much like that other fellow.

I do not call for giving up. I am just pointing out that using the State will not work. You have read me in comments here call for war right now often. I am for military coup if that has to happen. I am for breaking up this vast Empire.

The one thing I know is that supporting the State and pledging to the flag got us here. you will not vote yourself out of this mess.

Short of divine intervention, only violence will overthrow the Empire.

And no, I will not change my tune because I am right and it is you calling for old, tired, warn-out hopes of using "democracy" to set things right. Ain't going to happen.

Blogger Mark Stoval February 22, 2019 7:14 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:Your comment is schizophrenic, Mark. Are you the concern troll moderate or the anti voting ancap?

I have never been called moderate.

I am for the destruction of the Empire that enslaves my nation. I think making common cause with other whites for now is OK, but later I hope the Scott-Irish of the mountains can be its own nation/country/tribe/or what have you.

Blogger Blume February 22, 2019 7:18 PM  

Just because they were groomed into it didn't make them less victims. And physical abuse will eventually enter the picture at some point.

Blogger Blume February 22, 2019 7:21 PM  

You can't advocate against the state in general and be for it specifically mark.

Blogger sammibandit February 22, 2019 7:33 PM  

Are you a fed, Mark? It's been 30 minutes since I last posted and you are now advocating for military coup. You may be correct but you are not right to talk like that on this blog. You are thisclose to counseling to commit treason.

Be more wise. Lurk moar. You do not know who reads this blog.

Blogger Mark Stoval February 22, 2019 7:39 PM  

"You can't advocate against the state in general and be for it specifically mark."

Mr. Blume. Just where did I do that?

Look let me type slowly:

1) If we must have a state, I think a monarchy is best.

2) If we must have a state and can not have a monarchy then I would like a kitten weak central state as the founders envisioned.

3) If I can't have any of that, I would like to see a right wing majority vote in real right wing populists. Think PJB back in the day.
---------

But really, I would like to see the Empire broken into many areas made up of various white nations and let them govern themselves as they see fit and leave my people the hell alone.

I can't see how any of that is contradictory. There is no way to go all the way to a functioning market-anarchy from where we are at. No way at all. So, we have to fight within whatever state of affairs we find ourselves.

Lind and his 4GW is a tool we will have to learn to get from here to there in my opinion. I just can't see how any of this is controversial.

Blogger SirHamster February 22, 2019 8:02 PM  

Mark Stoval wrote:We got in this mess because the right does not see that the State is always moving leftward and is a tool of Satan.

Tool of Satan? Don't be stupid. Since you bring up the spiritual ...

"For the one in authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

Who is correct, you or the Bible? The widespread anti-authority streak in American culture is part of the problem.

Blogger Gulo Gulo February 22, 2019 8:24 PM  

"Why can't people like Kraft have an apartment of willing women like the Sultan of Brunei does? They could be his "executive assistants for special projects and engagements" that he bones on the side."

Or be like Hugh Hefner and drop all pretenses like "executive assistants" and unabashedly have a full blown harem.

Blogger Doktor Jeep February 22, 2019 8:28 PM  

I wonder if he'll get the same deal that Epstein got.

Blogger stephen cooper February 22, 2019 8:30 PM  

Latigo3 - it is better to have naturally high testosterone to understand these things.

I had some friends who, when Schwarzenegger was revealed as the father of his rather plain maid's son, said, why would he do that?

And I said, why wouldn't he? It was a sunny afternoon, probably, nobody was around, neither one of them considered themselves protected by the covenant of righteousness that God provides for us, and he was a man, she was a woman, a little fat and a little plain, but still a woman. I added that she (the uncomely maid) was more in my wheelhouse than in Schwarzenegger's (I am more fun to be around but am much less handsome and much much less rich) but that I understood the attraction.

That being said, I think the Bible is right about sexual relations - such relations are only and justly between man and wife - but I understand how people like Arnold and Kraft and Arnold's maid and Kraft's comely sex-workers of Florida might see it differently. One hopes for the good of their eternal souls that abortion was not involved .....

Blogger Jack Amok February 22, 2019 8:31 PM  

But unless children were involved somehow, we have two consenting adults having a little fun. So what? Why is prostitution illegal? It is not the state's job to enforce morals: as if that immoral bunch could do so anyway.

If you'd bother to read the details, you'd see the claim the prosecution is making is that it is not consensual, that the women were kidnapped overseas and brought to Florida working as slaves.

Now, maybe that's all a bunch of BS and they're just garden variety hookers, but that's not the claim you made. If this is indeed sex trafficking of unwilling women, we don't want that going on in our country.

And anyone who would traffic in adult female sex slaves would obviously draw the line there and never traffic in children, right?

Blogger Rough Carrigan February 22, 2019 8:33 PM  

There goes the dynasty?!?
The guy's value was in three things.
1) Hiring Belichick. -- can't screw that up now.
2) Getting the hell out of Belichick's way. --that's not changing either
3) Not being super cheap like the owner of Bengals -- that's not likely to change either.

Kraft's son Jonathan was the guy in charge of things day to day already. Robert Kraft was more a figure head than a decision maker at this point. If he has to fade into the back ground and Jonathan Kraft is more out front that changes almost nothing.

Dynasty . . . continues.
(Though I will be happy to not hear his annoying voice any more. He's got that talking as though I have a mouth full of ice cream thing going and it's really unpleasant if you hear much of it.)

Blogger sammibandit February 22, 2019 9:13 PM  

> I am for military coup if that has to happen.

>Short of divine intervention, only violence will overthrow the Empire.

Mark, you wrote this at 7:09 and Blume wrote at 7:21,

>You can't advocate against the state in general and be for it specifically mark.

These comments of yours are why I asked if you were a fed and may be why others are calling you.

Anonymous Anonymous February 22, 2019 9:19 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger stephen cooper February 22, 2019 9:23 PM  

Jack Amok - Hiring and exploiting willing sex workers is a criminal thing to do. It is punishable by years in jail.

Kidnapping and enslaving innocent women is also horrible, and is punishable by life without parole and should be punishable by the death penalty.

Unless the pimps or mamasans have been charged with the corresponding crime of kidnapping and slavery, we have no real basis for suspecting Kraft thought the women from whom he was getting disgusting young-woman-on-old-man rub-offs, or whatever else he was getting, were anything but volunteers. That was wrong on his part, but there are levels of being wrong, some levels much worse than others.




I

Blogger jfreddd February 22, 2019 9:32 PM  

“pre-June, 2015, Trump was also a big anti-gun and Democrat.
“and he is now.”

Well, yes, BUT, he’s OUR Democrat.

Blogger VD February 22, 2019 9:41 PM  

So few men can see the state for what it is. Damn sad.

Everyone can see it for what it is. We all know what it is. The problem is that you still haven't grasped that Man has created something even worse than the state, which is the immortal international person called "the corporation".

Stop secret kinging and realize that other commenters are well ahead of you on this topic.

Anonymous Anonymous February 22, 2019 9:44 PM  

Mark Stoval wrote:The one thing I know is that supporting the State and pledging to the flag got us here. you will not vote yourself out of this mess.

It's one thing to renounce this State. It's another to renounce states entirely. Per J B Bury it was by ceding speech to the enemy that the Christian principles in the civil law were abolished, and the Christian presence in the public square removed. Universal Libertarian principles only work if they receive universal adherence.

Mark Stoval wrote:If you cede the power to "stop the evil" that you don't like, the state will "stop the evil" called your church or even your own family.

You have the dynamics in reverse. We ceded the power for the other side to stop the goodness they don't like, and now they are coming for Church and family.

We didn't use the state to enforce truth. Now it is being used to enforce lies.

Blogger mgh February 22, 2019 9:56 PM  

immortal international person called "the corporation".

I would love to hear some ideas on what to do about the corporation. The uncoupling of organizational life span from human life span is the root of many problems.

Blogger Watchu talkin bout Willis February 22, 2019 10:11 PM  

https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/crime/indian-river-county/2019/02/22/billionaire-john-childs-charged-florida-human-trafficking-prostitution-ring/2953948002/

John Childs:

"He's a prominent donor to several Republican politicians and groups, including former U.S. House Speaker Paul Ryan, Club for Growth and 2012 presidential candidate Mitt Romney.

He donated about $4.3 million to Republican candidates and PACs last cycle, according to a review of federal campaign finance records.

His largest donation, $250,000, went to America First Action, a pro-Donald Trump super PAC. Senate Conservative Action, Freedom Partners Action Fund and the National Republican Senate Committee all received large contributions over the past two years.

Other large contributions have gone to Sen. Mike Braun of Indiana, Sen. Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee and Rep. Mimi Walters of California.

He also gave $600,000 to Gov. Ron DeSantis' gubernatorial campaign last year.

Blogger Peter February 22, 2019 10:21 PM  

Exactly what type of man do you think Trump was before 2015 ? He has known Epstine for years, there are many pictures of them together. Trump was married three times, many many affairs, used to own a casino... which one of the 7 deadly sins ins't found in a casino in Atlantic City.... Lets be real here... you can say he wasnt in florida, well Epstine wasnt just in Florida...

Blogger S1AL February 22, 2019 10:49 PM  

"The problem is that you still haven't grasped that Man has created something even worse than the state, which is the immortal international person called "the corporation"."

How many of the wealthiest/most influential corporations on the planet have existed for more than 60 years?

How many of the wealthiest/most influential States have existed for longer than 60 years?

Which regularly destroys which?

I'll believe "worse" when I see it. So far, no corporation has killed 60 million people trying to usher in Paradise.

Blogger Watchu talkin bout Willis February 22, 2019 10:51 PM  

Peter wrote:Exactly what type of man do you think Trump was before 2015 ? He has known Epstine for years, there are many pictures of them together. Trump was married three times, many many affairs, used to own a casino... which one of the 7 deadly sins ins't found in a casino in Atlantic City.... Lets be real here... you can say he wasnt in florida, well Epstine wasnt just in Florida...

If you're going to disparage someone's character by guilt through association, at least spell the dude's name correctly, moron. EPSTEIN

Blogger tublecane February 22, 2019 11:04 PM  

@84- I like the old days when they scared people by calling it White Slavery.

Blogger tuberman February 22, 2019 11:12 PM  

116. S1AL

Nope, you're wrong. The earliest corporations in the USA were called Trusts, and they've been a force behind a lot of killings, and even helped to create the two World Wars. Examples: corporations in Britain, and the USA financed Hitler's rise, then German weapons companies got behind him once he got started. The Russian Revolution was financed by Jewish NY Banks. All the major corruption in the USA has been directly due to several Trusts or corporations (railroads) from the 1830's.

Blogger tuberman February 22, 2019 11:25 PM  

119. tuberman

Added to this the Fed and the bank of London, neither of which belong to the UK or the USA, and thee people behind these "outside" corporations are monsters, who control those countries economies through the Fake money they print. They both profit greatly off of wars.

Blogger Gulo Gulo February 22, 2019 11:39 PM  

"Everyone can see it for what it is. We all know what it is. The problem is that you still haven't grasped that Man has created something even worse than the state, which is the immortal international person called "the corporation"."

Interesting point ! And this type of information is what brings me back to this blog day after day. It helps quench my insatiable quest for knowledge.

Blogger Gulo Gulo February 22, 2019 11:44 PM  

"I would love to hear some ideas on what to do about the corporation. The uncoupling of organizational life span from human life span is the root of many problems."

Precisely ! How do we address this ? It would be interesting to hear some insights from either our esteemed host or some of the more intelligent commenters.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother February 22, 2019 11:48 PM  

How about this to prime the pump: the corporation may only continue past the founding members' deaths through inheritance to their heirs. If there are no heirs, the corporation is dissolved in a manner similar to bankruptcy court proceedings.

Blogger Gulo Gulo February 23, 2019 12:01 AM  

@ 123
I like it ! Essentially if there is genetic "skin in the game" their dynasty continues. However, once that's missing/ exhausted - it ends. A much purer form of "free market" capitalism than what we have now.. a marketplace populated by "converged "publicly traded" corporations.

Blogger Vlad Z. February 23, 2019 12:20 AM  

He's the freaking President of the United States in 2019. He's not getting quickly hand jobs in the Oriental Love Flower Spa while the press and secret service wait outside

Blogger HoosierHillbilly February 23, 2019 12:22 AM  

@123 Alright, interesting start. Let's skin that cat...what if the Family of Stg58 wanted to buy the wildly successfuly HoosierCorp, and the clan was amenable to the offer?

Dissolution/Bankrupcty required, and you get to buy the pieces directly? Auction to the public, bring on what may? Or does Family of Stg58 become the new "founders" and clock resets?

Blogger Toris February 23, 2019 1:15 AM  

"Plus, they worship the Morningstar. His whole thing is exploiting the innocent and child sacrifice."


Most posters on this site are far more well-read on Bible than me, I've only been reading past year. Settled on KJV for now. In my King James Bible Morning Star is only used referring to Jesus. (Many newer translations refer to both Jesus and the-one-fallen-from-Heaven (Lucifer) as 'morning star'.)

Blogger Johnny February 23, 2019 1:34 AM  

Trump has been in big city politics for a long time and subject to being blackmailed for a lot time. While he has had is fun so to speak, I think apparent he hasn't been into anything really nasty or he would have already been called on it. No trips to Epstein's island, none of that sort of thing.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 23, 2019 2:54 AM  

Proving that there is no fool like an old fool.

Blogger Stephen Davenport February 23, 2019 8:11 AM  

He solicited a prostitute for a "Happy Ending", big deal.

Blogger Unknown February 23, 2019 8:48 AM  

Women sell it Men buy it, are they of age?
I mean, we got women as men, men as women, children being transsexualized , rewarded and glorified on national TV, courts sanction the will of a mother to mutilate her sons while at the same time forbidding a father's objections and forcing him to pay for it.
Now a "God Emperor" ordaining the strongest military in the world mission statement as forcing sovereign nations to accept, protect, promote homosexual degeneracy???HUH??? But some ole rich jew transacting asian pootang is a national scandal???HUH???Isn't this the type of entrepreneurship the 1965 Immigration Act was supposed to enrich the nation?

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey February 23, 2019 9:14 AM  

@116. @119

The issue with corporations also includes NGOs/ foundations" -- nonprofit" organizations with legal personhood.

The Dodd Report to the Reece Committee was 65 years ago. The problem certainly hasn't gotten better since...

Blogger Damelon Brinn February 23, 2019 9:36 AM  

God save us from libertarians. Only they could argue that we should legalize prostitution because society is already too sexually depraved.

Blogger tuberman February 23, 2019 9:51 AM  

@132

"The issue with corporations also includes NGOs/ foundations" -- nonprofit" organizations with legal personhood."

Yes, these have become the point of the spear for NWO evil recently.

Their weakness is that nearly all of the Globalist NGOs/foundations/corporations/trusts/etc are connected or interwoven, so they are one massive monopoly used to control everything, including people. ANTI-TRUST LAWS will be a good start, and there is proof of these connections.

Blogger tuberman February 23, 2019 10:08 AM  

@133

"God save us from libertarians."

Yes, literally!

Their "freedom is everything" sperg has gotten insane. The libertarians only exist in North America for a reason, and that fad will soon die.

Blogger Blume February 23, 2019 10:10 AM  

@ mark stover, Literally read the next comment. The quote Sir Hamster quoted is a general screed against government. It's in both direct conflict with the bible and your own desires for and Appalachian kingdom.

Blogger Avalanche February 23, 2019 10:29 AM  

@6 "The only thing I can think of is the "no strings attached" angle."

One doesn't pay a hooker for the sex -- one pays the hooker to go-the-hell-away without complaint AFTER the sex.

Blogger Avalanche February 23, 2019 11:24 AM  

@17 "What are the odds that this is connected to yesterday's decision that Epstein's plea bargain was illegal?"

Oh. Ohhh. Oh wow. Never would've thought of that!

Blogger spinoza February 23, 2019 12:16 PM  

Why do they live in Jupiter do they really need all the space of a gas giant, are they really so greedy they have to take the largest of the planets for themselves, and why are they always trying to jew Peter anyway what did he do to deserve that?

Blogger Up from the pond February 23, 2019 1:46 PM  

Semites have a thing for sex with children, you see it throughout the Middle East. Thank God we don't have Semites in charge of government and business here.

Blogger S1AL February 23, 2019 4:10 PM  

"Nope, you're wrong. The earliest corporations in the USA were called Trusts, and they've been a force behind a lot of killings, and even helped to create the two World Wars. Examples: corporations in Britain, and the USA financed Hitler's rise, then German weapons companies got behind him once he got started. The Russian Revolution was financed by Jewish NY Banks. All the major corruption in the USA has been directly due to several Trusts or corporations (railroads) from the 1830's."

If you actually think that's what this debate is about, you're a historically-illiterate moron. The basis for the term "corporation" exists de jure from the Roman Republic at minimum, and de facto for the entire history of human civilizations.

Governments, and "the state" generally, share all the characteristics of business corporations, plus military power. Indeed - many states can be historically defined as pseudo-business corporations that assumed martial and legal power.

Blogger S1AL February 23, 2019 4:14 PM  

BTW, tuberman, if you can actually think it through and name the oldest legally-recognized corporation on the planet, you might begin to grasp what's really being discussed.

Blogger Mark Stoval February 23, 2019 4:31 PM  

@111 VD

I did a reply but don't know if I can copy it all here and post it successfully. I know you will be all torn up if I can not, but here goes anyway.

Part 1

Secret King? You go to that well too often.I don't know if I ever had an original thought in my life. But I have read a lot.

Consider some of the names that I side with. Patrick Henry, Tom Paine, Joseph Priestley, the Jacksonians, Richard Cobden, Albert Jay Nock, H. L. Mencken, Block, Hoppe, Rothbard, and Frank Chodorov to name but a few. And then Martin Van Creveld! Then there is none other than Friedrich Nietzsche.

If only I could point to Jesus and say that he never said anything good about the Roman Empire. Oh, wait.

Let us make sure we are using the same definition of "State".

"Let me say from the beginning that I define the state as that institution which possesses one or both (almost always both) of the following properties: (1) it acquires its income by the physical coercion known as “taxation”; and (2) it asserts and usually obtains a coerced monopoly of the provision of defense service (police and courts) over a given territorial area. An institution not possessing either of these properties is not and cannot be, in accordance with my definition, a state."  ~Rothbard

Nietzsche surprises with this:

“I used the word ‘state’; it is obvious who is meant by this — some pack of blond beasts of prey, a conqueror and master race, which organized on a war footing, and with the power to organize, unscrupulously lays its dreadful paws on the populace, which though it might be vastly greater in number, is shapeless and shifting.” ~ Nietzsche

A few other comments on democracy:

If voting could change anything, it would be illegal. ~ Emma Goldman

“Buy the law-makers, buy the laws, and you become the law itself. That is the definition of corporate freedom.”   ~ William Rivers Pitt

“The State is that great fiction by everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else.”    ~ Frdric Bastiat

“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."   ~ Thomas Jefferson

“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!”    ~ Benjamin Franklin

Martin Van Creveld will have to wait, it is long.

Blogger Mark Stoval February 23, 2019 4:38 PM  

In a book review of one of Van Creveld's books I read the following:

Van Creveld divides his book into six chapters:

Before the state: prehistory to AD 1300: a time of recorded and unrecorded history with no state and little government in the sense we have come to know the word.

So much for the “when has anarchy worked” strawman.

The rise of the state: 1300 to 1648: described by Van Creveld as “the period from approximately 1300 (the Res Publica Christiana at its zenith) to 1648 (the Treaty of Westphalia).”  When this thing called “the state” emerged from the Middle Ages – the time of the binding of culture brought on by the Church through the series of treaties that ended wars between and amongst the Holy Roman Empire, Spain and the Dutch Republic.  The Treaty – actually a series of treaties – deserves comment:


The state as an instrument: 1648 to 1789: this is the period through the French Revolution, a time that witnessed the creation of many of the state’s most characteristic institutions: bureaucracy, armed forces, the gathering of statistics, police and prisons.

The state as an ideal: 1789 to 1945:
Per Van Creveld: "…states…transformed themselves from instruments for imposing law and order into secular gods; and how, having increased their strength out of all proportion by invading their citizens’ minds and picking their pockets, they used that strength to fight each other (1914 – 1945) on such a scale, and with such murderous intensity, as almost to put an end to themselves."

The spread of the state: 1696 to 1975: This chapter describes the spread of this concept of “state” to all corners of the world.

The decline of the state: 1975 –
(I know…the lack of an end date is a real pill): collapse, as in Yugoslavia (and I will add, the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia, and many others currently in progress); giving up some portion of sovereignty, as in the European Union.

Blogger Mark Stoval February 23, 2019 4:43 PM  

Well, that did not go as well as it could have. Ah well.

Only one more comment by me. The State gave birth to the Corporation as we know it. The State's laws and policies keep the corporation alive and powerful.

Since I started reading non-fiction 50 years ago I have seen over and over again that the state is at the bottom of most of our problems. For example, Thomas Sowell pointed out that one party tried to pass some of the evil '60s legislation in 1957. The WW2 generation? Or is it just the nature of mob rule by the foolish masses?

Blogger tuberman February 24, 2019 11:46 PM  

Yeah, I knew a long time ago about the Roman beginnings, yet I was answering this:

"So far, no corporation has killed 60 million people trying to usher in Paradise."

That's what you're wrong about, as corporations had heavy involvement in both the World Wars on all sides, and their manipulations became more obvious in the 21st century. And, yes, often these corporations were trying to usher in a "utopia" for the parasite classes.

So, from your talk about killing 60 million for utopia in the 20th century, the money manipulation behind the scenes was corporate. All the current movement of illegals, setting up terrorists, and destruction of Nations today, all done with corporate money.

There are, in fact, strong theories that the people behind the NWO, have used corporations to create various versions of one-world-government (nazis,commies,revolutions, etc...they fiance them all), and that they, and their money are behind most of these mass killings since Napoleon.

Corporatism is not Capitalism. Corporatism is a parasite economy, but this is not a attack on companies that make a profit with a nations culture and people in mind. Sundance at CTH has had several great articles on the parasite economy vs. the Main Street economy. Most central banks and many other international corporations over these last two centuries were set up to subvert nations and cultures.

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