Thursday, May 23, 2019

China rejects civic nationalism

If you want to know why all the smart long-term money is on China vis-a-vis its strategic struggle with the declining US global empire despite the latter's current military superiority, it is China's growing nationalism that is the strongest reason:
“Make China Great Again” is officially now the agenda of President Xi Jinping. Can “Make the Han Great Again” be far behind? In this interesting if somewhat academic work, Australian China scholar Carrico has examined the rising influence of traditionalist, racially based sentiments within modern China, particularly through study of the Han Clothing Movement (Hanfu yundong) and associated ideas.

At one level, the movement, established in 2001, is a curiosity, seemingly on the fringe of a society rapidly modernizing and engaging with the world. Han clothing is the symbol of a wider commitment to belief in restoration of a largely imaginary era of Han greatness and cultural purity and rejection of foreign-influenced money obsession of China today. But it has important elements in common with the officially promoted emphasis on Confucian principles, and on long held beliefs in the genetic division between Han and the rest.

Nor does this merely appeal to aging traditionalists and those who hanker after a return to traditional script and other pre-Communist aspects of the nation. The book begins with a quote from a Han Clothing Movement supporter, an IT professional based in that hub of Chinese modernism, Shenzhen:

“You can’t have nationalism without race (minzu zhuyi). That’s what we want to do: promote Han racial nationalism (Han minzu zhuyi) …. The multiracial nationalism we have now in China, with 56 races as part of a larger “Chinese race” (Zhongua minzu) is a big scam. It was imposed upon us by the Manchus, forcing us Han, the core of China from the beginning of time, into submission. All that this nationalism has done is to weaken China.  You can’t just destroy the distinction between civilization and barbarism (Hua yi zhi bian), incorporate a bunch of barbarians into our nation and then expect a strong nation. All this talk of “wealth and power” (fuqiang) is empty and meaningless without Han nationalism.”

The principal villains, from this Han perspective, are not the western powers and Japan and the one hundred years of humiliation, they are the Manchus. The dynasty may have been overthrown in 1911, but Manchu ideas, customs and (allegedly) Manchu money continue to prevail. The queue may have gone but the Manchu qipao and magua – both designed originally for horse-riders –are is still viewed as the standard Chinese traditional dress, as for example provided to delegates to the APEC Summit in China in 2015.

The Han movement’s intent is to remove all such foreign impurities, which has also to include inter-marriage with inferior foreign genes, a problem which has supposedly been enhanced by the one child policy.
While China is rejecting the Manchu legacy that was imposed upon its nation, the US is increasingly being forced to submit to its own Manchus, to such an extent that American history is being revised, American heroes are being vanished, and the 1st Amendment is under legal and political siege.

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Blogger #7139 May 23, 2019 5:41 AM  

All hail the great Han master race. Good for them, I guess.

Blogger ZhukovG May 23, 2019 5:54 AM  

Well done Han China. North America is going to be a freaking mess, Old Testament style.

Blogger Garuna May 23, 2019 5:56 AM  

In related news, India's Hindu nationalist party BJP just won the biggest general election victory in the country's history. Even the most hardcore nationalists didn't expect them to top their 2014 landslide, but somehow they managed to do it.

Adding insult to injury, the opposition party's leader Rahul Gandhi is on track to lose his seat. It's even more embarrassing when you consider that the seat has been a part of the Gandhi dynasty since the 1960s. He lost it to a former soap opera actress who he had previously defeated in 2014. Another sign that Hindu nationalism has grown since the previous election.

Speaking of actors.. a couple of Bollywood A-listers, including India's equivalent of Meryl Streep, ran as the Hindu nationalist candidates and both won.

The contrast between the East and the West could not be starker.

Blogger Robert What? May 23, 2019 5:57 AM  

It is fascinating to me, a westerners, how the Chinese see themselves as all different races, even though to us they seem all the same race. Can we ever be successful in establishing a White identity movement? Whites throughout the western world are in an existential crisis.

Blogger Sargent.matrim May 23, 2019 6:10 AM  


Blogger Critias May 23, 2019 6:16 AM  

For a few years now I've actually but wanting nations like china etc to go back to their traditional dress, rather than wearing western suits. The Han clothing movement sounds great to me. I wasn't aware they had as many as 56 races there.

Blogger FrankNorman May 23, 2019 6:50 AM  

So... that "Elders of Wye" thing about the Diaspora Jews making China their new home might need a rethink, perhaps?
Because they don't look Han-some enough to be welcome...

Blogger Lazarus May 23, 2019 7:13 AM  

Can we ever be successful in establishing a White identity movement?

Maybe that is exactly what the small hatted ones want you to do, so that nationalism is impossible.

Meanwhile, Its OK to be Yellow.

Blogger Avalanche May 23, 2019 7:17 AM  

@6 "The Han clothing movement sounds great to me."

Well, if you search for 'hanfu clothing,' it's quite beautiful -- but seems VERY impractical... trying to cook or use a computer with massive bell sleeves will not be comfortable; may be dangerous near fire, and as lovely as the women look, it's not practical for must things we do in the modern world...

Isadora Duncan, dancer: On September 14, 1927, dancer Isadora Duncan is strangled in Nice, France, when the enormous silk scarf she is wearing gets tangled in the rear hubcaps of her open car.

Still love the racial angles...

Blogger Desdichado May 23, 2019 7:20 AM  

This is great news for would-be black-pillers to choke on. If China can endure over a century of foreign domination and emerge from it, then we can emerge from the decades of Judeo-Chrisitan rule too.

Of course, then we need to send all of the Fake Americans home again...I wasn't aware they had as many as 56 races there.

I wasn't aware they had as many as 56 races there.

They're thoroughly cowed, though. Looking at the size of the Han polities over the centuries is a great example of their slow imperialism. Then again, if you have to do imperialism, the slow digestion of new territories and peoples is certainly preferable to getting genetically swamped in what is nominally your own homeland.

Blogger Amy May 23, 2019 7:29 AM  

I don’t know how her name is rendered in English as I’ve not been able to find any translated captions, but I periodically watch a YouTube series about a young woman living with her grandmother. They live in traditional Han style cottage and wear traditional dress.

The videos feature the young woman going about traditional chores, from growing her vegetables to feeding and boiling silkworms to making the actual fiber and sewing it into a quilt to keep grandmother warm. It’s fascinating. She does it all without any machinery or electricity, replicating in every way how things were done before Western intrusion.

It’s all obvious propaganda. It’s recorded on video and the lighting is professional and the editing is well done. But for a nation bent on rekindling it’s traditional ways, including the traditional respect for elders, well, there’s a reason she’s a top draw in Chinese YouTube views.

It is not lost on me that the respect your elders/ancestors” is good culture for a population top-heavy with old people who might not have enough young people to care for them.

Blogger Desdichado May 23, 2019 7:34 AM  

Lazarus wrote:Can we ever be successful in establishing a White identity movement?

Maybe that is exactly what the small hatted ones want you to do, so that nationalism is impossible.

Meanwhile, Its OK to be Yellow.

There's no such thing as a white identity movement, except possibly in the sense of a post immigration white American who's a genetically tangled up European, maybe. Even then, living here in Michigan I'm surprised at how different the whites are from those I grew up with in the South, who are more my people. Slavic, Polish in particular, and Papist are not what I considered part of white American identity.

It's curious that if you read the rest of the article beyond what the OP posted, you'll see that the Chinese don't believe in being OK to be yellow; even they see themselves as white!

Blogger Amy May 23, 2019 7:34 AM  

Avalanche, the hanfu clothes that are so lovely and flashy are more like aristocratic attire. In the YouTube link here

You can see what the peasant class wore, much more practical for everyday chores.

Lizipi, that’s her name, I couldn’t remember it before so I went searching. It’s really rather soothing to watch her work.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan May 23, 2019 7:44 AM  

The wages of empire, glad to know it's not just us whypipo's problem. Yeah, if we could rid ourselves of the Judeo-christian death cult of cultural marxism we could form a coherent nation, but it's the death of all nations.

Blogger JG May 23, 2019 8:01 AM  

There is no such thing as "white identity", the category is too broad to serve as a political basis, for the same reason that the "European" identity in the form of the EU is currently failing hard.

There is (maybe) American identity, there is English identity, there is German identity, there is French identity, there is Polish identity, ....

Only alt-retards believe in "white identity".

Blogger Mr. Deficient May 23, 2019 8:07 AM  

The Han Chinese are something like 90% of the population of China. I'm not sure how genetics play into this, but Anglos can't even imagine living in a country with an ethnic majority like that. I don't know if I have even been in a town with 50%+ Anglos or Scotts etc, let alone a country of 1 billion plus people. Compare that to India having 10+ languages for example.

Notice how he says The Han period of greatness is largely imaginary.

The Han dynasty (Chinese: 漢朝; pinyin: Hàn cháo) was the second imperial dynasty of China, preceded by the Qin dynasty (221–207 BC) and succeeded by the Three Kingdoms period (220–280 AD). Spanning over four centuries, the Han period is considered a golden age in Chinese history.

From info galactic at

The Han are so adept at over taking other ethnicities and nations culturally that there is a word for it.

Blogger pyrrhus May 23, 2019 8:24 AM  

Even without traditional dress, etc, since the Cultural Revolution, the Han have been making it clear to the tribal minorities, especially the Moslems, that they rule China and that vibrant activity will be ruthlessly crushed...And Han all over the world are regarded as citizens...

Blogger Blaidd May 23, 2019 8:25 AM  

I wasn't aware they had as many as 56 races there.

The Han are more than 90% of the population of China but you have to remember that China has 1.4 billion people and even 10% of that is still more than the population of any country in Europe.

Blogger peacefulposter May 23, 2019 8:26 AM  

The flood of Chinese immigrants into North America suggests that China is not great yet. But hopefully the rise of Chinese nationalism will entice them to return home.

Blogger Amy May 23, 2019 9:13 AM  

That, peacefulposter, or they are purposefully colonizing.

China is buying up real estate all over the USA and Canada, pricing locals out of the housing markets.

Blogger JovianStorm May 23, 2019 9:24 AM  

Dindu = I dindu nuffin
Manchu = Manchu gotta dollah?

Blogger Joe Smith May 23, 2019 9:38 AM  

@Rovert What? It's interesting that you've seemingly missed the point. There is no viable "white identity". The whole concept of "white" is itself an American badtardization. The Chinese figured out that there's no single "Chinese" identity. White people in the west have to understand that, e.g., Polish and German aren't the same, categorizable under this "white" identity.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 May 23, 2019 9:44 AM  

Moving forward, I could definitely see China and Russia breaking up much the same way Vox has been predicting the US will break up.

All three countries are heterogeneous empires.

Blogger Beardy Bear May 23, 2019 9:44 AM  

This youtuner reminds me of the townsends

Blogger Fozzy Bear May 23, 2019 9:55 AM  

E Michael Jones makes the point that the European nations in the US are so miscegenated by the “triple melting pot” that there are now only three nations: Catholic, Protestant, and Jew. Obviously this isn’t exactly correct but religion is closely tied to nation so this theory provides a rhetorical lens to view the future Balkanization of the US.

Blogger Ingemar May 23, 2019 9:57 AM  

If nationalism Makes Han Great Again, good for the Han.

The problem is, this comes at the rest of the world's expense. Nationalism and imperialism aren't mutually exclusive.

Blogger David Ray Milton May 23, 2019 10:17 AM  

@Fozzy Bear

That would certainly explain (along with the revisionism mentioned by Vox) why Americans feel they have no concrete identity.

Blogger Sam Spade May 23, 2019 10:51 AM  

Liu Bei and Kongming are avenged and triumph 1800 years after their death.

Hans, the true heaven heir.

Blogger CM May 23, 2019 11:05 AM  

Han clothing is the symbol of a wider commitment to belief in restoration of a largely imaginary era of Han greatness and cultural purity

I hate global citizens.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 May 23, 2019 11:07 AM  

Fozzy Bear wrote:E Michael Jones makes the point that the European nations in the US are so miscegenated by the “triple melting pot” that there are now only three nations: Catholic, Protestant, and Jew. Obviously this isn’t exactly correct but religion is closely tied to nation so this theory provides a rhetorical lens to view the future Balkanization of the US.

Religion is usually one major aspect of culture. This is something that is often forgotten in the US because of the separation of church and state madness.

More than likely, Jews won't stay in the US until the end of this century. They will probably return to Israel, complaining the entire time about how inhospitable the US was to them following World War II.

The Catholics, believe it or not, are not a united force and never have been in recent centuries. More than likely, you'll have the Mexican Catholics and various groups of European Catholics forming their own communities. My grandparents told me that when they were in the Pittsburgh area, there was a Catholic church for each ethnicity. One for Italians, one for the Slovakians, etc. This was in spite of the fact that they were all neighbors.

Mormons will just isolate themselves in Utah.

The Southern Baptists, provided they get their cuckolds out of power, will probably be the largest group who breaks away. More likely, however, is that the Southern Baptists will break apart into smaller denominations.

Keep in mind, this is all speculation and not any kind of prophecy.

Blogger CM May 23, 2019 11:09 AM  

It is not lost on me that the respect your elders/ancestors” is good culture for a population top-heavy with old people who might not have enough young people to care for them.

This isn't a necessary reason in China, since their culture has always been tied up in elder/ancestor worship and respect.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 23, 2019 11:32 AM  

JG wrote:Only alt-retards believe in "white identity".

The alt-retards ... and the Browns and the Blacks.

We can look down on the Micks and Dagos and Wops and Polaks and Krauts and Frogs, but we are all under assault by our common enemies.

White isn't our nation, but it's our alliance.

Blogger Blaidd May 23, 2019 11:43 AM  

Pointing out there is no such single entity as "whites" is not looking down on anyone, it is merely the acknowledgement that Americans are different from Italians and Frenchmen are different from Russians. We have different histories and cultures and desires. There is no need to accept the notion of a "white identity" to form alliances with each other.

Blogger Lazarus May 23, 2019 11:58 AM  

Desdichado wrote:There's no such thing as a white identity movement,

In my terse way, that was kind of my point. Thank you for expanding, however.

Blogger xevious2030 May 23, 2019 12:14 PM  

@4 (RW) Often too much confusing “identity” with “nation.” Good question. In terms of identity, that’s possible, more so in the US as a necessity for Western Civilization, but if the understanding stays away from purity, and focuses on collections of recessive gene sets related to behaviors and tendencies, across geographic graduations (you’re going to have mixes, it’s the scale that is the thing, and the nature based behavior compatibility). It is improbable that halting inflows and beginning deportations would occur without it. Stop the bleeding, check for breathing, protect the wound, treat for shock. In other words, prioritization. The first step is recognizing an us and a them, or you go nowhere. This understanding is what is attacked the most, because it is so key, and the most basic and watered down of distinction of “us” is identity. You stop the inflow, as a group, you start the outflow as a group, and then you quibble about setting up the nations, or you’re overrun. The ability to identify as a gross generality, and to exclude on the simplest of criteria, at least temporarily. Cooperation.

Europe (as a generality) is in a much better position to simply restore national considerations and remove that which is not (considering some assimilation, especially those of valued contribution). The longer things go though, the less probable the US, entirely, all areas, will not be blended out of existence, becoming a collection of non-Western Civilization nations. Life does not stand still. Just remember, when someone tries to CivNat you, they’re spitting in your face, don’t make excuses for them. It does not mater why, if they were brainwashed, if they are stupid or not, they are doing it, and that is what matters. There is a point where being reasonable is not, and this is that point.

Blogger Argus Bacchus May 23, 2019 12:34 PM  

"US is increasingly being forced to submit to its own Manchus..."

Death by Kardashian.

Blogger Unknown May 23, 2019 1:18 PM  

I was walking through the black ghetto the other day.

A number of young black gentleman approached me. They demanded my wallet. When I refused to hand it over, they called me a "white bastard" and proceeded to cudgel me.

I informed them of an obvious fact which, evidently, they had forgotten.

"There is no such thing as 'white,'" I stated, raising my voice. "I'm not white. I'm Polish."

"We apologize, sir," said the ringleader, immediately giving the order to stop the cudgeling. "However, we must seek further clarification before knowing how to proceed with you. What, sir, is your religion?"

I responded by explaining that I am what might be essentially described as a Traditionalist Catholic who does not object to certain modified aspects of Vatican II.

After an invigorating discussion of points of doctrine, and referring to books in our respective voluminous personal libraries, we agreed to an interfaith detente. I expressed delight in our mutual understanding.

"Blacks," I said, "have an excellent aptitude for amity."

"BLACK?!" my interlocutor replied. "I am not black! There is no such thing as black, I am Bantu."

The cudgeling resumed.

Blogger Birdman May 23, 2019 1:22 PM  

What are you talking about? Again the term white only applicable in north america

Blogger Birdman May 23, 2019 1:24 PM  

I fucking hate it when they just group us into just 'yellow', i have my own identity

Blogger Birdman May 23, 2019 1:30 PM  

Then why not just western alliance? That term is far less cringe than 'white alliance'

Blogger Anthea May 23, 2019 1:32 PM  

Reminds me of the 1900 Boxer Rebellion in China. A secret organization of patriotic Chinese were angry about Western and Japanese influence in China. Afraid they would lose their culture and religion to foreign colonization they ran around and killed every Christian and Westerner they could find. The Rebellion led to the end the Qing dynasty, and brought in the Republic.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 23, 2019 1:39 PM  

Birdman wrote:Then why not just western alliance? That term is far less cringe than 'white alliance'

Because the nigs call us cracker and whitey, not westerners.

Blogger Unknown May 23, 2019 1:46 PM  

Birdman wrote:Then why not just western alliance?

Why not "Western Civilization"? You know, an alliance based on the Western Ideas that the various ***DEFINITELY NOT WHITE*** ethnicities share, including ideas about religion and civic life.

We might even call it "Civic Nationalism."

Yes! That's it. "Western Civilization: ***DEFINITELY NOT WHITE*** peoples who are allied according to common civic values."

But definitely not white. Because Carleton Coon was mentally retarded. There is no such thing as the Europid race. That is an antisemite classification if ever there was one!

Blogger yellowleaf May 23, 2019 1:56 PM  

37). I agree.
Whites act like a replay of red Indians.

Blogger xevious2030 May 23, 2019 2:19 PM  

@38 And?

@39 In the various parts of Asia, when they see someone ancestrally from Europe, do they generally make a distinction based on appearance, and if so, is it broad (general category, to include American, European, round eye, westerner, white devil) or specific (nationality, Welsh, Scott, Irish, Alsatian, Walloon, Dane, Andalusian, whatever)?

Blogger Solon May 23, 2019 2:26 PM  

Papists have never really got a cultural hold here in America, apart from the Irish and small Polish communities in northern Ohio and Michigan (where Im from).

Hailing from Toledo Ohio (where the vast majority of Poles call home in America), the community is unmatched. They've still got traditional Polish butcheries and grocers there, the people still eat traditional Polish cuisine (like Duck's Blood Soup for holidays. Ick), overwhelmingly Catholic, and so on.

While it may be a great community, they have kept to their ways, and never really assimilated into "American" culture, much like blacks, Southerners, Hispanics, et. al.

I've abandoned those roots since then and consider myself Appalachian in everything but origin, and I would agree that the Polish and other Slavs are not "White American" identity, but I will say that, like the Amish, they want to keep to their ways, but they could be... Acceptable, to an overall American nationalism, unlike the blacks and Hispanics, who are just FAR too different to ever fit in, and I'm not talking about just skin color.

Blogger Solon May 23, 2019 2:34 PM  


Whites of every ethnicity are under assault by browns, blacks, yellows, and semites the world over.

Do you think those people care that you consider yourself a Polak, or a Frog, or a Kraut? No, we're all just "white" to them.

It's extremely stupid of them to force all westerners to unite under the banner of "whiteness," but that's what's happening.

Once we get rid of the non-whites, then we can go back to our ethnic squabbles, but we're looking at genocide of white people right now. There's no room to bicker about whether Slavs and Papists are truly "white" or not.

The fact is, they're "white enough" to be on our side in the coming wars, where skin color will be your uniform.

Thus, "White alliance." It may be cringe, but out hand has been forced.

Blogger xevious2030 May 23, 2019 3:05 PM  

@40 Western alliance is a better term for the goal, for that part of the intention. Satanic, white, SJWs are most certainly not on the Western Civilization side. It is not some white revolution. But Vox has pretty well identified the three legs of Western Civilization. It’s not mostly people from Africa. It’s not mostly people from Asia. It is not mostly people from the Americas. It is not exclusively prohibitive of some, but it is primarily people ancestrally from Europe (one of three qualifications). It is a defining leg. Most of those people are easily distinguishable from the peoples from outside of Western Civilization (except areas on the edges, formerly conquered and blended, not quite so clear cut, in terms of looks). And it is linked to other peoples through Christendom, with their civilizations, their nations.

Blogger Duh-ave May 23, 2019 3:38 PM  

@19 "The flood of Chinese immigrants into North America..."

Spies and saboteurs to prepare for a west coast invasion? Say it ain't so!

Blogger Thomas Bateman May 23, 2019 3:56 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Teleport me off this rock May 23, 2019 4:11 PM  

Always amazing how, when the talk turns to nationalism, any past greatness is "largely imaginary", and yet we are often told about how the Chinese were once so far ahead of the West technologically it was like we were cavemen. The Narrative believes what the Narrative it needs to believe at any given moment.

Blogger Unknown May 23, 2019 4:19 PM  


Agreed. We need to stop cringing.

Blogger Blaidd May 23, 2019 4:23 PM  

There's no room to bicker about whether Slavs and Papists are truly "white" or not.

The great thing about national alliances is there's never a need to decide who is and isn't white. The English are English, the Czechs are Czechs, the Greeks are Greeks. The white unity movement is not only dumb, it's unnecessary.

Blogger Unknown May 23, 2019 5:04 PM  

Whoops. I meant @47.

Blogger Unknown May 23, 2019 5:06 PM  

Proposition alliances are no more reality-based than proposition nations.

A nation is a racial group which enforces jus sanguinis. Any other definition is civic nationalism, meaning the assertion that water is thicker than blood. Or more exactly, that wind (ideology) is thicker than blood.

Blogger Brett baker May 23, 2019 5:52 PM  

So if it gets "interesting" they can "inspect" their North American properties.

Blogger BalancedTryteOperators May 23, 2019 6:02 PM  

The First Amendment is okay for SJW... as long as it doesn't matter. SJW are fine with free speech as long as it's impotent and ineffectual.

SJW's loved free speech in the 90's before social media. Then twitter and blogs came and gave speech teeth and a roar and they all lost their minds.

Blogger Zeke OF Confettii May 23, 2019 10:20 PM  

As the new Han Empire is attacking Christianity, it will, eventually run into problems. God is patient, but Our Lord is the King of Kings.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf May 24, 2019 7:22 AM  

I often do work in China, maybe I'll buy some Han clothing? When in Rome... Incidentally, I've worn Japanese summer kimono (for men) in Japan when I lived there, it wasn't a big deal.

Blogger Miguel May 24, 2019 7:44 AM  

"“You can’t have nationalism without race"

Sentence of the year.

Blogger Thomas Bateman May 24, 2019 11:11 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger RobertT May 25, 2019 4:14 PM  

You've got this wrong. You should read Peter Ziehan & George Freidmann, Better yet, Watch this.

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