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Sunday, June 23, 2019

Mailvox: it's only fair

A MGTOW decides that it is only fair to ask me to give practical help and advice to others:
You've stated your case against MGTOW's like me as liars and Satanists, so now I think it's fair to ask you to now move on to the next step, which is to give practical help and advice to these young men that you are encouraging to get married regarding what sort of women they should be looking for, and how they can be better and more successful husbands and fathers.

You might think it should be obvious, but when people are young and lack life experience they don't always see things clearly. The gynocentric feminazi world certainly is not helping men and women figure things out.

I'm still MGTOW my self, because that's what works for me, I was MGTOW decades before it had the name or the militant political and social aspect to it. Even so, I happily concede some of your points, one of which MGTOW's call NAWALT, not all women are like that. But young men need help seeing and understanding what these unicorns look like, the kind of attitudes and opinions that are peculiar to the unicorns. It's more than just their notch counts and selfies, I think.

I never found a unicorn my self, but I still allow that they exist, somewhere, out there, in the big world.

So, young men need help recognizing the qualities of a unicorn, and also they need help developing the qualities of leadership that you point out are necessary to maintaining a healthy relationship with a woman.

I think if you provided a positive message toward that end, you would help the cause of promoting the survival of western civilization more effectively than just calling people names.

You called me a liar, but I would be lying if I did not confess and admit that I have made a deliberate and considered choice to eschew relationships with females, and I'd be a liar if I didn't tell the truth about how and why I made that choice.

I don't tell young men what to do or not do, I don't call them names if they make a different choice. Mainly I tell young men, when I tell them anything, to be careful about women, don't fall for just a pretty face, and make sure they consult with a lawyer before they sign any legal documents of any kind. How is that bad advice? How is that dishonest and Satanic? I'm not seeing it. But never mind on that, just please think about how to actually accomplish what you claim is your intention, which is a good intention in my opinion.
Hey, calling liars and cowards liars and cowards is just me going my own way. How can they possibly object to that? It's really rather amazing how sensitive these narcissistic creatures are to criticism of their chosen path when they have very publicly declared that they owe nothing to society and refuse to do anything for anyone. What do they care if anyone calls them names anyhow?

Anyhow, I don't care what they think is fair. I'm not shaming them to try to change their behavior, I am simply observing their contemptible cowardice and their habitual dishonesty. I don't care what they think is fair. I don't care what they think at all.

This is all I have to say directly to the MGTOW: You quit. You're out. You're done. You ran from the battle. So be it. You don't count anymore. Now go off and die alone, as you've chosen.

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274 Comments:

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Blogger sammibandit June 23, 2019 10:30 PM  

... many young men being reluctant to get into relationships because of how many modern women have been corrupted by feminism, etc. ...

If fallen women are good enough for the perfect man, they're good enough for you.

It's the creepy women who want to be around kids when they're childless or use their kids to hook creepy guys that should put you off.

Blogger buwaya June 23, 2019 10:31 PM  

I work from human nature and common sense available to any human animal.

Each of us has a chance at the table, with a stake given us by God, in this cosmic gambling establishment. We have to play our cards, or we lose by default, our stake is worthless otherwise. We dont win anything by not playing. Play and lose, or play and win, either way accept what you get.

If you lose, you lose, and you have my sympathy at least, being as I am much older than VD, and age usually brings sentimentality, but it is so anyway. I would buy you a drink at the casino bar.

Blogger allyn71 June 23, 2019 10:35 PM  

Some of you really need to read this. Winged Hussar has some advice for you closet incels

When the fear of remaining as you are becomes greater than your fear of rejection, failure, or whatever it is that stands between you and where you need to be….you’re ready to begin the process of change. It takes a conscious effort to resign yourself to whatever may come, stride forward, take it on the chin,and push through till victory is yours. But in time, it becomes who you are, and fear becomes fuel.

So by all means, honor your wife, deal kindly with your children, provide for your family, and be charitable to your neighbor..but first and foremost, BE A MAN!

One final note. Can we stop using the term “masculinity” near constantly because it sounds gay. I’m not 100% sure what “toxic masculinity” is, but I’m 99% sure it will give you AIDS. You know who uses words like masculinity? Any guy who subscribes to the $1 shave club, grows a beard to look like the brawny paper towel guy, and wears skinny jeans. So, stop using the word “masculinity.” It’s gay. Do you want to be gay? ‘Cause that’s how you become gay! Just be a man.

Blogger lynnjynh9315 June 23, 2019 10:38 PM  

Scott wrote:@190MGTOW isn't about self-actualization. It's about hiding in a corner with a sex doll and howling at the world.

A perfect summation.

Blogger Welleran June 23, 2019 10:40 PM  

Y'all are a bunch of Tom fools, it's common knowledge that only a virgin, pure of heart, can see a unicorn. You wanna separate good girls from the whores wrangle a unicorn into a horse pen and see which unmarried women can find it and which can't. Easy, peasy.

Blogger lynnjynh9315 June 23, 2019 10:41 PM  

@VD I share your point, but giving men advice on find "unicorns" might not be such a bad idea.

At best, I've found maybe two genuinely marriageable young women.

Blogger Dave Dave June 23, 2019 10:42 PM  

MGTOW doesn't want arguments or alternatives. They'll even find something wrong with a perfect solution.
I have a sister. She's not a whore. I've known dozens of women that weren't whores and only about 5 that were. Women are obviously not whores. Perhaps if all your knowledge of women comes from Instagram, all women will be whores, but that's a narrow world.

Blogger David Ray Milton June 23, 2019 10:53 PM  

@T-RAV

Try to imagine for a second (assuming anything you said was sincere) that the best way to help young men is to not coddle them like women. That men need to be scolded occasionally to be challenged. You know, iron sharpening iron.

Otherwise, without such character molding, men just sit in their rooms, by themselves, watching porn and thereby projecting that all of the women in the world are sluts and that none are marriage material. Without challenge, men don’t learn to compete or take risks.

Hence, MTGOW.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 23, 2019 11:02 PM  

T-Rav wrote:I don't know or care what a gamma is, though I assume it means something like "soyboy."

Then perhaps you should inform yourself, instead of pontificating in ignorance. I'll even link it for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhTFkUpB8zc

Blogger Jackie Chun June 23, 2019 11:07 PM  

Monday Blue (not mgtow) had a good response vid to this: https://youtu.be/7ij5XTAzZc4

Just to add to the point that young men who want to start a family might not find any suitable women in their social network, there is also the economic aspect. Women in many places are out-earning men and such marriages are very unstable due to hypergamy. For example Tucker Carlsen writes in his book that 70% of masters degrees among blacks are owned by women. I would guess this would make finding a suitable mate harder inside major cities. Maybe for alphas and betas it's not a necessity, but out earning your wife is probably a necessity for deltas given 70% of divorces are initiated by women in the US.

Blogger Beloved June 23, 2019 11:37 PM  

@212 Most of the world is living on less than a dollar a day. There are families in India with ten kids getting by with not much more than that.

There is no reason your wife should be working, because there is nothing more valuable that she can do with her time than spend it with her children.

Once the youngest child turns five or so, she can get a job if she wants. But, women in the workplace increases the risk of infidelity. A better choice would be to keep her at home and home school your kids.

So you have fewer fancy pants and lollipops on a single income. Who cares?

Wives have no business being in the work force.

Blogger Beloved June 23, 2019 11:50 PM  

@212

That video is a perfect example of why talking to MGTOW is like talking to zombies. They keep parroting the same discredited talking points over and over again.

Case and point the WW1 trenches fear-porn comparison.

Quoting my post from YT: "The odds of a Brittish soldier surviving the trenches in WW1 was ~90%. The exact stats are 8.76% dead, and an additional 13.24% wounded. Total casualty stats (killed and wounded) ~22%. Even the worst-case-scenario-fear-porn that MGTOW pushes is an exaggerated lie."

Blogger xevious2030 June 23, 2019 11:58 PM  

"Making people to go against their interests."
And here is the display of insanity. You have no fucking idea what is in your interest.

Blogger D. June 24, 2019 12:07 AM  

>You quit. You're out. You're done. You ran from the battle. So be it. You don't count anymore.<

I am not a rabbit. I do not breed mindlessly like a rabbit.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 24, 2019 12:12 AM  

D. wrote:I am not a rabbit. I do not breed mindlessly like a rabbit.
Nor in any other manner.

Blogger RigsOfChad June 24, 2019 12:28 AM  

I am a single, white millennial who lurks this blog. I am in good financial standing and would be able to support a family. I have tried dating apps, stating in my profile that I am only interested in dating younger Christian women, but I haven't yet had successful matches. The trouble with joining a young adult/singles group at a Catholic church near me is that Catholic churches in my area are mostly non-white. Should I seek out another denomination?

Also, white women in my age group who identify as Christians often indicate immodesty, social media solipsism, etc. Some even portray themselves as Pastor-type figures, like Sadie Robertson for example. She fronts a "ministry" of her own with 3.3M followers on Instagram, many of which fall into the early 20's white demographic I am targeting. Moreover, the majority of this demographic seems to place career over God/husband/family.

Blogger Daniel June 24, 2019 12:44 AM  

Incels Celebating As No Try

ICANT

Blogger Beau June 24, 2019 2:03 AM  

Should I seek out another denomination?

No. Seek Christ, ask him what he would have you do. Roll up your sleeves and do it - with all your heart and strength. Men who are actually about their Master's business are attractive to women of all sorts.

Blogger Garuna June 24, 2019 2:36 AM  

I'm 25 and extremely promiscuous. I can confirm that it's never been easier to get laid. And it's still extremely easy to find girls who are marriage material. Literally multiple times every year, I find girls who wants to start something serious. MGTOW is pure COPE. Literally every argument they make is dishonest.

Now listen faggots, you are low status men. You're not supposed to marry the "slut" or the "unicorn". You're supposed to marry the fat, ugly chick with a low notch count. There are plenty of them out there. Don't even pretend this isn't true. Just climb out of your gay little basement and you'll find dozens of them outside right now.

Besides if you marry within your race and religion, the survival rate of marriages is like 80-90%.

And once you get into a relationship, girls aren't even that hard to control. They have no agency. They obey whoever projects strength. I've been with countless """feminists""". None of them is a true believer. It's all bullshit they spew because they're told to and they do it because they have no agency. Feminists do not exist. The Power of Cock trumps the media programming and they all fall in line eventually.

Just stop acting like a fucking bitch, and for starters don't ever post walls-of-text about your feelings again. That is for women to do. Have you ever read chicklit? That's what your posts read like. I mean really just stop.

There is enough information in this post for you to live happily ever after. If you still can't do it, just fuckin neck yourself.

Blogger Beloved June 24, 2019 3:24 AM  

@218

The common fear-mongering tactic employed by MGTOW liars is to take the worst case scenario, exaggerate it, and present it in a contemptible fashion using rhetoric.

"I am only interested in dating younger Christian women."

It's true that younger women have more years of fertility, more years of pre-wall beauty, and a lower number of sexual partners which is connected with a lower risk of divorce.

The MGTOW lie is that it's not worth dating a woman who isn't perfect. Classic false dilemma, all or nothing thinking.

You can be happy with a woman who isn't perfect.

"The trouble with joining a young adult/singles group at a Catholic church near me is that Catholic churches in my area are mostly non-white."

The grain of truth here is that you'll have a lower risk of divorce if you marry someone who looks like you, and your children will have more success if they can fit in with people who look like them.


The MGTOW lie is that it's not worth dating a woman who isn't perfect. Classic false dilemma, all or nothing thinking.

You can be happy with a woman who isn't perfect. Your kids don't have to be perfect either.

"white women in my age group who identify as Christians often indicate immodesty, social media solipsism, etc."

The grain of truth here is that women are followers (AWALT / NAWALT). Society has led them to behave abhorrently.

The MGTOW lie is that it's not worth dating a woman who isn't perfect. Classic false dilemma, all or nothing thinking.

If you learn how to lead your wife will follow you.

The other grain of truth here is that it's difficult for people to change. Your wife may make mistakes, commit infidelity, etc.

The MGTOW lie is that it's not worth marrying a woman who isn't perfect. Classic false dilemma, all or nothing thinking.

Don't allow your delicate pride or your sensitive ego or your precious honor to get in the way of living a happy life. It's okay to forgive people when they make mistakes, provided they're honest about the mistake and are willing to repent.

As other people have said repeatedly in this comment section: your standards are too high.

You don't have to find the perfect woman to be happy. You don't have to be the perfect husband to be happy. All you have to do is learn how to take responsibility and ownership of your life, and learn how to lead.

Don't allow your fears or your narcissism to dictate your life. MGTOW is cowardice. MGTOW is hedonism. MGTOW is carnival mirror view of life that makes everything ugly. Reject it.

Blogger Brutus June 24, 2019 4:00 AM  

This is a pretty good blog. For the most part a good take on things. Some hobby horses, too. These recent MGTOW threads have been funny. I got a kick out of reading them. You can sure tell the age of most of the regulars here.

I'm reminded of a scene in Louis L'Amour's The Quick and the Dead. Con Vallian gently taking the boy aside and telling him, something to the effect, "...when its about [manners, education and similar things] you listen to your old man. But when you want to know about wild country and injuns and such, you listen to me."

Blogger Станислав Бартошевич June 24, 2019 4:34 AM  

Quoting my post from YT: "The odds of a Brittish soldier surviving the trenches in WW1 was ~90%. The exact stats are 8.76% dead, and an additional 13.24% wounded. Total casualty stats (killed and wounded) ~22%. Even the worst-case-scenario-fear-porn that MGTOW pushes is an exaggerated lie."

(1)These numbers are for the entire army, a good part of which had never ever been in the trenches, given that they served in various support and logistic units which were rarely exposed to combat in WWI. Casualty rates for infantry units of divisions caught in major battles (in both World Wars) were easily in hundreds of percents of their nominal strength.
And similarly, the divorse rate for the modern American marriage seems to be merely bad, because a lot of people counted into statistics had never faced modern American marriage - they have married several decades ago when the society was hugely different.

(2)And then there is the question on whether all the carnage is worth it. In WW I Britain had to defend itself right now, or be attacked a few years later, only with no allies to rely upon anymore, and most British citizens could expect their lives to get substantially worse if their country is stripped of its dominant position in world trade and squeezed for every last penny though war reparations.

But for what reason, except being deceived, a modern young man may wish to take a bullet for the society which at best treats him as a slave who is expected to work and sacrifice without recompense or, in fact, any sort of positive reinforcement whatsoever (but note that only deplorables, like people in this thread, hold a position so mild), and at worst constantly invents new ways to show him its hatred and contempt?

Blogger VD June 24, 2019 5:46 AM  

How much practical good do you think that does?

A considerable amount. I have zero use for useless cowards. The more that stay away from here and stop whining at me concerning things I was criticizing publicly 18 years ago, the better.

If all you have to say to people asking these questions and raising these issues is "screw off, have fun dying alone," then frankly, you're kind of useless.

Screw off and have fun dying alone.

I find it amusing that you think I am kind of useless because I have no use for the cowardly self-castrates of the West. But since you find me useless, please note that you are henceforth banned from here and every other organization I have created or will create. Including this blog.

Blogger Beloved June 24, 2019 6:03 AM  

@224

"But for what reason, except being deceived, a modern young man may wish to take a bullet for the society which at best treats him as a slave who is expected to work and sacrifice without recompense or, in fact, any sort of positive reinforcement whatsoever (but note that only deplorables, like people in this thread, hold a position so mild), and at worst constantly invents new ways to show him its hatred and contempt?"

Again, MGTOW's common fear-mongering tactic is to take the worst case scenario, exaggerate it, and present it in a contemptible fashion using rhetoric.

It may be true that our society is currently led by people who hate you and want you and your family to die. Leadership changes over time, and new people will come to power. In any event, your ancestors lived through far worse times and made sacrifices that allowed you to be here.

MGTOW aren't being asked to make sacrifices for society. You're being held in contempt for NOT making sacrifices for your own family and potential children. You've been misled into committing genocide against your own family line. We're talking about an incalculable number of lives being preempted by you because you don't want to be bothered.

Everyone here can see through your narcissism. Get over yourselves or have the decency to die quietly.

Blogger wreckage June 24, 2019 6:06 AM  

Here's an observation, on the value of things. Have you met a man who outlived his children? They would prefer to have died. They live on for the people around them, but something utterly irreplaceable is gone from them.

And there are guys literally arguing that losing some of their play money would be worse than never having children. Sure, pal.

Blogger Beloved June 24, 2019 6:24 AM  

@219

This is a man who sees no truth, no good, and no beauty in the world.

Blogger Станислав Бартошевич June 24, 2019 6:33 AM  

@224

I take it, you too cannot provide the reason why young men should make sacrifices asked of them, despite admitting that you're asking for a sacrifice? Then I can merely repeat: good luck building your New Man who selflessly toils for the Greater Good of your definition, that sure worked well in USSR.

Blogger Uncle John's Band June 24, 2019 6:54 AM  

"Again, MGTOW's common fear-mongering tactic is to take the worst case scenario, exaggerate it, and present it in a contemptible fashion using rhetoric."

It's interesting that no matter how many times it is pointed out, they can't stop doing it. They're so committed to their fake narrative because it's the foundation of an entire ideology designed to catch and deflect the pain of their own weakness. Founding lies are typical in ideology, but this one doubles as an emotional sin eater. It has to be true or they face what they are.

It's why they sound so much like SJWs - both desperately cling to lies to hide the pain of being them but can't keep it to themselves. They even whine about shaming in walls of emotive text the same way. Some beg for pity directly while others pretend to claim it's other eunuchs that they want emotionally fluffed. But they are all calling for a world where they can me cowards and be stroked for the cowardice. Every man that succeeds is another slap across their lying faces.

Blogger VD June 24, 2019 7:49 AM  

I take it, you too cannot provide the reason why young men should make sacrifices asked of them, despite admitting that you're asking for a sacrifice?

You're a liar. The reason young men should make sacrifices is because that is what men do. If you are not prepared to sacrifice yourself for others, you are not a man and you do not love anything.

Blogger xevious2030 June 24, 2019 8:04 AM  

"They simply don't understand the lack of marriageable women."
No, that is an excuse for goal post moving. Women need to be lead, and men are horribly trained in this. Not that women are so dumb they need to be lead, they have the in ate desire. If your having trouble getting a woman or helping her become better, look in your mirror. If she goes off the deep end, you didn't fight hard enough, or in the right way, whatever that means. There was a breakdown in communication, or you were ill equiped. If somebody fails to equip you properly, it is up to you to figure it out and improve.

Tending to stay away from the religious considerations, because it is too easy from a Christian perspective. But the monk comnent is an exception. If you feel the calling to be a monk, and it doesn't have to do with the world around you, you're probably a monk. If you're going for any other reason, you are a satanic PoS and you don't belong there.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 24, 2019 8:07 AM  

MGTOWs are like conservatives as in they do not have their own frame, to me that is pure sadz, and nothing worse than getting shit tested by some bitches and losing frame.

ZFG and may Heartiste bless us with an internet presence.

Blogger xevious2030 June 24, 2019 8:27 AM  

"You can sure tell the age of most of the regulars here."
It's not the conditions, meat my much younger X/Mellenial borderline wife when she was just out of college. It's the fisherman, not the fish.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 24, 2019 8:43 AM  

Gen X, most of us

Blogger Станислав Бартошевич June 24, 2019 8:43 AM  

@229

You sound almost exactly like a Soviet propagandist outraged at the petty bourgeois who dare to prefer their base and selfish comforts to hard but morally rewarding and uplifting work for the sake of humanity's bright collective future because they love only themselves.

Do note, I'm repeating variations of this point not as a rhetorical attack, but merely to draw upon the closest historical example, demonstrating that shaming people into doing things that the social system does not actually reward (or even outright punishes) cannot in fact work for very long.

Blogger Bohemond June 24, 2019 8:51 AM  

@230
"Women need to be lead, and men are horribly trained in this."

The women are being lead, but not by the men in their lives. That is the problem. That is also the design.

I've been trying to describe the extent of the problem here and been getting little but insults and life advice. But I'm not bemoaning my life. I don't have these issues, I am merely commenting on what I observe happening to people around me, many of whom I know. Many of whom are good people, but due to the decay and decline weren't raised in a Christian household.

To someone who has spent more time than he can stomach around the modern, mainstream youth culture, I can assure you, these women are not going to meet a man and have the propaganda and brainwashing overcome.

My family homeschooled. I know as well as anyone the contrast between a young woman who has been homeschooled and raised Christian and one who went to public school and then college.

If a young man has spent his time in normal USA culture and become disillusioned and is looking for answers and alternatives (as is becoming increasingly common) the things being said here are going to sound like white noise. It can be hard to understand or emotionally accept that things are different elsewhere. If a young man in the USA is not Christian and hasn't travelled, it is entirely likely that he knows exactly zero reasonable young women.

Clearly, joining a non-converged church is the most important thing. But this also isn't as simple as many here are making it out to be. A family I grew up with (all their children are happily married, by the way) is now forced to take a 2 hour round trip every Sunday to go to a non-converged church. There are quite literally none closer. They have to leave their town and drive through 2 more to go to one.

The USA is in a very bad state and the good pockets can be hard to find.

Blogger VD June 24, 2019 9:10 AM  

I've been trying to describe the extent of the problem here and been getting little but insults and life advice.

You've been making false statements about others and about the situation. You deserve nothing more than insults and contempt.

Blogger Garuna June 24, 2019 9:48 AM  

This is a man who sees no truth, no good, and no beauty in the world.

wrong

Blogger Dangeresque June 24, 2019 10:11 AM  

So funny listening to these guys ask for "constructive advice". Like VD said, you fled the battlefield... Does a general give orders to the soldiers who have deserted or the ones who are still there?

Blogger Beloved June 24, 2019 10:13 AM  

MGTOW liar.

Your insipid parody of the truth demonstrated the all or nothing thinking that pervades your philosophy. "If it isn't perfect, if it isn't easy, if it isn't free than it isn't worth it." You see the world like a carnival mirror. Everything is as warped and as ugly as you are.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 24, 2019 10:35 AM  

Do MGTOW losers even lift? Didn't think so.

Fags.

Blogger xevious2030 June 24, 2019 11:20 AM  

"I can merely repeat: good luck building your New Man who selflessly toils for the Greater Good of your definition."

Those are the ones that will do the building. The rest of you who do not have kids, will not. Guarantee you that there will be those that show up. Because most people, however stupid they may or may not be, are not insane that way. Logical arguments, for those that do not, are pointless, because you reject the simplest necessary function of life, to continue. Without that basic function, you do not continue, and so remove yourself from the conversation, long term. Your attitude is an error, and life will remove it, you doing all the work.

Blogger Bohemond June 24, 2019 11:22 AM  

@VD

I've made no false statements about anyone here. If you're referring to the boomer thing, I repeat, I did not call anyone here a boomer.

None of my critical statements about mainstream USA culture have included Christian communities. I've said I am not referring to Christian communities. Yet, when I mention a lack of marriageable women outside of Christian communities, you and others reply telling me you know many (presumably Christian) marriageable young women.

I know many great young women, as well.

Whatever.

Keep fighting the good fight and I'll keep donating to infogalatic.

Blogger billo June 24, 2019 11:25 AM  

Bohemond wrote:Clearly, joining a non-converged church is the most important thing. But this also isn't as simple as many here are making it out to be. A family I grew up with (all their children are happily married, by the way) is now forced to take a 2 hour round trip every Sunday to go to a non-converged church. There are quite literally none closer. They have to leave their town and drive through 2 more to go to one.

I remember watching a commercial for oil rig equipment when I was a child in Oklahoma. I remember thinking "Who watching this show needs oil well stuff?" Then, at the end of the commercial, a young lady came on the screen and said, "And if y'all don't have an oil well, then go out and get you one!"

The same thing is true about churches. If one has to drive two hours to two towns away to find a bible-believing congregation, then a believer is being presented with an opportunity by God. The church is the congregation of believers, and if there isn't one nearby, then create one. Consider China, where the soul of the Christian movement is now largely in home churches. The same is true with many of the newer evangelical congregations.

Whether it's a mission from one's preferred denomination in the area or it's a restorationist house church, there's a need there if one has that far to go. This need is not an excuse not to do something, it's a message that something needs to be done. And who knows who God will provide as a companion in the effort if one makes that effort...

This complaint is a little like the complaint that one cannot get in shape because it's so hard to get to the gym. If you can't drive to the gym, there's a floor at your feet, a desk or table in your home, and bricks or rocks in the yard; one can always do body weight exercises, at least as a start. If you can't get to a congregation, you can build one. Remember who you serve. And who knows what (and who!) God will provide.

Blogger xevious2030 June 24, 2019 11:48 AM  

"The women are being lead, but not by the men in their lives. That is the problem."

This is rhetorical, I don't really care about the answer, but have you become a part of the life of a woman to change that? You think women have been Christians since the dawn of time? That people didn't run around throwing kids into fires for some kind of worship?

If things are shitty, if conditions suck, you work and you change them. Somebody does. People who learn from life, better themselves, and then go out to participate. People who learn fail, figure some things out, change, and then try again, until they achieve success. When you hear "quit being a faggot and do the work," it is because. Well. Started typing, and a quote worked itself in, one by a fictional character, but one that is true. "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem." (Captain Jack Sparrow) Your attitude is creating bits of logic, connected by rationalizations. And you are unwilling to differentiate, that your values of worthwhileness are figments of your imagination, emotional arguments as sound as babbled incoherent fantasy, that you willingly use to separate you from reality. There is reality, and there is how you feel about it, and you substitute how you feel for reality. It is the same as a person that self identifies as a labrador retriever or a great ornate building, not because of physical damage to the brain, but belief and choice. The problem is your attitude gets in the way of you being sane.

Blogger Bohemond June 24, 2019 12:01 PM  

@243

No one is making excuses. They make the drive every weekend and they have home meetings with former members of their congregation who've also left.

I couldn't agree more about home churches. They seem to be the way to go in many areas, and I doubt that will change anytime soon.

@244

"If things are shitty, if conditions suck, you work and you change them."

Things aren't shitty for me, my family, or our friends. Our conditions don't suck. On the balance, we are all doing very well.

I was observing the unfortunate situation of non-Christian, let me repeat, non-Christian, young men and women in the USA.

Growing up in a secular household and being thrown into public school is an unfortunate fate, many don't recover.

Blogger Beau June 24, 2019 12:04 PM  

Me: I'm glad you want to get to know my daughter. Let me tell you how.

Young Man: nods head

Me: My daughter is the apple of my eye. Do you know what that is?

YM: No sir.

Me: It's that bump on the front of your eye, that if touched, provokes an instantaneous reaction.

YM: Yes sir.

Me: So when you take her out, I'm relying on your wisdom to make sure wherever you go, she is safe. But failing that, you're going to get her out of there - no matter what ticket prices you pay.

YM: Yessir.

Me: But failing that, if approached by a threat, someone is going down. Do you know who that is?

YM: *gulp* Me, sir.

Me: No! The other guy. But failing that, then, yes, it is you, giving her time to get away. Are you OK with that?

YM: I've never thought of it like that, but yes sir. I am.

Me: Good, because if you weren't - you have no business dating my daughter.


The reason young men should make sacrifices is because that is what men do. If you are not prepared to sacrifice yourself for others, you are not a man.

Blogger Beau June 24, 2019 12:05 PM  

Growing up in a secular household and being thrown into public school is an unfortunate fate, many don't recover.

I recommend evangelism.

Blogger xevious2030 June 24, 2019 12:15 PM  

"non-Christian, young men and women in the USA." - Bohemond

"You think women have been Christians since the dawn of time?" - Xevious2030

People have been doing this since well before Christianity. Under a variety of shitty conditions. Go fish.

Blogger Alphaeus June 24, 2019 12:19 PM  

""Making people to go against their interests." And here is the display of insanity. You have no fucking idea what is in your interest."

I do not claim to agree with everything every self-proclaimed "MGTOW" says, but I'm wondering if every anti-MGTOW agrees with this blatantly asinine statement just because it is presented in an anti-MGTOW context?

What if this statement was made when the subject being discussed was anything else besides MGTOW? Would the VFM jump up and applaud? Am I allowed to ask the question?

Blogger Alphaeus June 24, 2019 12:25 PM  

"The reason young men should make sacrifices is because that is what men do. If you are not prepared to sacrifice yourself for others, you are not a man."

Unless the crazy man's daughter is a slut, then a man will be less inclined to die for her. Quality matters, does it not? What about the assumptions inherent in Bible verses like Romans 5:7?

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Blogger Beloved June 24, 2019 12:42 PM  

@249

"I do not claim to agree with everything every self-proclaimed "MGTOW" says, but I'm wondering if every anti-MGTOW agrees with this blatantly asinine statement just because it is presented in an anti-MGTOW context? "

2SD indeed. If you cannot understand dialectic, let me use rhetoric. You're like a fat bitch shoving her mouth full of cake. We're trying to tell you to stop eating, and the best that you can come back with is "What's in it for me?"

Stop eating cake you fat fuck. You'll lose weight, you'll feel better, and you'll live a happier life.

Reject the comforting lies of MGTOW. Your behavior is insane and narcissistic. You've become a victim of your own selfishness and narcissism and despair.

@250

More all or nothing lies and bullshit.

"If she isn't perfect you should give up and get a sex doll."

Are you incapable of recognize how dumb these lies you've fallen for are?

Blogger xevious2030 June 24, 2019 12:47 PM  

“You have no fucking idea what is in your interest.” – Xevious2030

“I'm wondering if every anti-MGTOW agrees with this blatantly asinine statement just because it is presented in an anti-MGTOW context.” - Alphaeus

I’m not VFM, but I’m also not Vox, which makes any actions of the VFM irrelevant. Haven’t seen applause about it anyway, nor agreement with the notion of insanity, though I may have missed it. “Your interest” is a very broad brush, intentionally, which includes more than feelings. “Asinine” is extremely stupid or foolish, not that you failed in reading comprehension of what I wrote. If what I wrote was asinine, it was in not spelling it out to a level you could comprehend, and I would take the hit if that is the case, but at this point I will assume this not to be the case. I don’t want to get into the morbid, or start a conversation in that direction, but people that truly consider the continuation of life pointless/futile do not participate at all.

Blogger Blume June 24, 2019 12:51 PM  

Alphaeus, You answered your own question. If christ, who we are called to follow, could die for a sinner, why can't you live for one?

Blogger billo June 24, 2019 12:53 PM  

Alphaeus wrote:What about the assumptions inherent in Bible verses like Romans 5:7?

Our obligation is to be like the Christ -- the one who did sacrifice. Not the other guy. Yes, as Paul notes, one's inclination is to be like the other guy. The path of the Christian is to resist that inclination.

But, really, folk are making too much of this, a little. Marriage is not for everybody. After all, St. Paul argued against it. As he wrote to the Corinthians, "Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion."

But it's important to realize *why* one should or should not get married. The arguments for marriage have been made clear. The reasons that Paul suggested one not get married have to do with obligation to God and expectation of the imminent return of the Christ. The problem with the folk here who have been arguing against marriage is that they are providing all the wrong reasons -- primarily selfish ones.

It's one thing to say that one is led into celibacy by a calling of God. It's another to say that one is celibate because responsibility is hard and it's not worth the effort of living like a responsible adult. If God truly leads a man into a celibate path, then that is the burden he must bear. If a man leads himself there, he is following the wrong leadership.

Blogger Beau June 24, 2019 1:00 PM  

What about the assumptions inherent in Bible verses like Romans 5:7?

Why pussyfoot bandying about assumptions inherent?

Why not just blatantly express the truth? “Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. John 15:13 and The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. John 10:13 Praising cowardice is no virtue.

Blogger Blume June 24, 2019 1:02 PM  

@Bohemond I side with Beau. If life sucks for the non-Christians then we should invite them over. And most people in the states aren't completely non Christian. They are churchian or apostate. They can be redeemed.

Blogger Blume June 24, 2019 1:13 PM  

@Bohemond it takes a life time to over come all of the brain washing but with stubbornness and God's help it can be done. I am a millennial.
I met my younger millennial wife 4 years ago and she was a crazy apostate feminist man hater who never wanted kids or a husband. Now she is a crazy but happy Christian woman who married me, took my name and gave birth to my son who we born adore.

At one time she believed abortions could be justified because of economic reasons. When she found out she was pregnant her first thoughts were we aren't ready and maybe I should get an abortion. And even though her family told her to get one, she knew she could never stay with me if she did. So she kept it. And now we have a beautiful baby boy she loves more than the moon.

Blogger Doktor Jeep June 24, 2019 1:15 PM  

@198
Thank you Scott. I have been wondering about who and how. Now I remember TFM. Never had much of a liking to that channel. To me it seems like things went sour right around the time somebody - or ((somebody)) tried to make MGTOW some kind of official movement. Something that even by its own name, would have been impossible. I saw that discussion of a "MGTOW Movement" come up repeatedly but the conclusion would arise that you can't make a movement out of this.
As usual, that which cannot be coopted, is destroyed.

Looks like we'll have to save the young simps with Nationalism and Christianity. Apt to be more effective. Heck even I wonder if I should pull a Roy Moore and find a young waif.
Of course 2 women I have been with ended up with tumors in their uturuses. I might be some kind of evil incarnate.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 24, 2019 2:00 PM  

Our glorious Air Force is going after incels, SNAFU blogspot linked to an AF Times article. Even our screwed up government is dunking on these boys

Blogger Garuna June 24, 2019 2:56 PM  

MGTOW liar. Your insipid parody of the truth demonstrated the all or nothing thinking that pervades your philosophy. "If it isn't perfect, if it isn't easy, if it isn't free than it isn't worth it." You see the world like a carnival mirror. Everything is as warped and as ugly as you are.

Old man, you think *MY TRUTH* is an "insipid parody". APOLOGIZE!

Blogger Alphaeus June 24, 2019 3:40 PM  

"Proclaiming "all who don't marry are liars and cheats" is idiotically ignoring the facts, but you can be good at that in some areas."

VD doesn't need me to defend him but in the interest of "fairness" I feel personally obligated to point out that VD didn't say this as far as I know. As the person at the center of this little dust up I want the truth to be told. He said that the MGTOW's who tell young men that all women are promiscuous and unfaithful and who cite what he says are distorted and inflated divorce statistics are doing a very bad thing and are very bad people. And he's right to the extent that there are some very angry MGTOW's who do that. They are worthy of the severest criticism.

What I had to say was along much different lines, as anyone can see who read the initial posting by VD at the top of this post. My concern is more about how I believe we are living in the Mouse Utopia of the mad scientist Calhoun and no matter what any of do as individuals we are probably freaking doomed because of the sickness caused by the environment.

Blogger Beloved June 24, 2019 7:09 PM  

No, Garuna. Enjoy your sex doll. I hope you live forever.

Alphaeus, you've given in to despair. Things aren't as hopeless as you believe. And even if they were, it wouldn't change your duty as a Christian.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 24, 2019 7:50 PM  

Blume wrote:I side with Beau.
Beau is very consciously on Jesus' side. That means you're usually right to be on the same side as Beau.

Blogger Alphaeus June 24, 2019 9:15 PM  

"Alphaeus, you've given in to despair. Things aren't as hopeless as you believe. And even if they were, it wouldn't change your duty as a Christian."

If that were true I wouldn't be here on VP supporting nationalism and complaining about all our social problems. I haven't given up completely yet. And I'm actually encouraged when you say that the situation is not as hopeless as I think it is. All I was trying to ask of VD in my email was for a more positive sounding message to be presented to what I "fear" are pre-MGTOW's and I'm suspecting that rhetoric will not overcome the weight of the facts of society that work against their family prospects.

Blogger Toby Temple June 24, 2019 11:13 PM  

As I stated before, if you are burning with passion, then marry. You are not Paul nor Christ who lived a single celibate life in service of God. You are just someone who opted out of marriage because you think that there are no good women left for you to marry.

If you cannot see the difference, then you are a hopeless case.

Blogger xevious2030 June 24, 2019 11:30 PM  

"I'm suspecting that rhetoric will not overcome the weight of the facts of society that work against their family prospects."

It probably won't. Not going to argue with you on that one. Truth, a rolemodel, someone to guide them that knows better than their fellow misinformed and wet behind the ears peers, would probably be a bit more helpful. You take back society one couple at a time, and hopefully that couple does the same. It's war.

Blogger IreneAthena June 25, 2019 1:26 AM  

Don't be this guy.

Blogger IreneAthena June 25, 2019 1:28 AM  

...or don't be this gal.

Blogger Beau June 25, 2019 2:48 AM  

Heavenly Father,

I ask for courage, wisdom, trust and hope for the men who read this blog. May they find your will and fire in scripture to guide them, along with those in their charge, to fullness of life and victory in your son, Jesus of Nazareth. Amen.

Blogger binks webelf June 25, 2019 8:19 AM  

OK MGTOWs, I'll bite.

First, you need good pastoring from a faithful masculine priest or minister. No cucks, or churchian feminists.

Second, you will need spiritual healing, confession of sins, and intense prayer to forgive your parents, the women you have obsessed over, and to turn from your ingrown eyeballs & perpetual pity-party. The perfect holy masculinity of Jesus can be your model, and by grace, your healing.

Third, read up on some game, some socio-sexual hierarchy, and embrace the REALITY about who you are, and who you want to be. Read books on overcoming shyness, vids on developing charisma and dealing with social situations, and put it into practice. Stop living in your head like a mad king lives alone in his castle.

Fourth, no-fap, gym, fighting dojo, turn off the computer all lot, and avoid whiny online gammas & MGTOW cultistss, who will just drag you back in. It's easy being the secret king superhero who is completely right, and totally a victim. It's also a foretaste of Hell.

Fifth, once you are somewhat healed, buff, read-up, prayed up, be willing to make bold choices and to stick with them. Start small. Suffering will happen. So what?

Sixth, be the man God intended, with skills, abilities, education, muscles, confidence, no whiny, no cuck, no blue-pill.

Did I miss anything?

Blogger Roger Hill June 25, 2019 7:58 PM  

Been married for 20 years. Without a doubt, she is the greatest gift God ever gave me, short of faith in Christ. I work hard... and for a purpose. I know myself well enough to know I wouldn't strive nearly as hard in life if I single and childless. This maybe some character flaw, I don't know. But if it is a peculiar character flaw, it is peculiar to many men I have known over the years. I just know providing for her and our children gives my hard work more purpose, more urgency and ultimately way more satisfaction.

Blogger Ty Richards June 26, 2019 2:22 AM  

“Now go off and die alone as you have chosen.”

Damn the truth stings. MGTOW is the inevitable graveyard for blackpillers. They are the mirror image of the feminists they claim to hate.

Blogger Thomas Howard June 26, 2019 7:19 PM  

The most interesting and ironic component of this multiple thread discussion of MGTOW and the determination that it is a pathetic movement is that this ground was plowed years ago by Jordan Peterson and his conclusions were fundamentally identical although more well reasoned and judicious. Makes for an excellent contrast in the mechanism of providing an effective and compelling argument, at least to an open and objective listener.

Blogger HG June 27, 2019 2:23 AM  

"This is all I have to say directly to the MGTOW: You quit. You're out. You're done. You ran from the battle. So be it. You don't count anymore. Now go off and die alone, as you've chosen."

That was so beautiful it brought a tear to my eye.

This is the final word. Nothing else needs to be said anymore.

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