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Friday, June 21, 2019

Sounds like someone is lying to the President

President Trump calls off a planned strike on Iran:
Donald Trump approved military strikes against Iran in retaliation for downing a $180m US spy drone but pulled back last minute as planes were in the air and ships in position against the advice of some of his top aides, according to reports.

Military and diplomatic officials were said to be expecting a strike as late as 7pm Thursday, with planned attacks on Iranian targets including radar and missile batteries approved, The New York Times reports.

The paper says multiple senior administration sources confirmed the plans.

One insider is said to have told them planes were in the air and ships were in position when the mission was called off - against the advice Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, national security adviser John R. Bolton and CIA director Gina Haspel.

Iran had earlier released GPS coordinates suggesting the drone was eight miles off its coast. That put the missile within the 12 nautical miles from the shore Iran claims as its territorial waters.

Officials there later said they had 'indisputable' evidence the drone violated its airspace.

But the US said it was shot down 21 miles off the Iranian coast, in the Strait of Hormuz.
My guess is that he approved the strike but changed his mind when he found out that there was, at the very least, reason to question where his officials said the drone was shot down.

Labels:

108 Comments:

Blogger Rick June 21, 2019 5:59 AM  

Ryan Saavedra:

NEW: NYT's report & AP's report on Trump approving Iran strike appears to differ:

NYT: “top Pentagon officials cautioned that such an action could result in a spiraling escalation with risks for American forces in the region”

AP: “the strikes were recommended by the Pentagon”

Blogger Rick June 21, 2019 6:02 AM  

VD, what was it you said about how real wars start vs fake wars?

Blogger American Spartan June 21, 2019 6:03 AM  

"Always do the opposite of what Neocons say".

Blogger God Emperor Memes June 21, 2019 6:04 AM  

How the hell does a drone cost $180 million?

Blogger nswhorse June 21, 2019 6:07 AM  

If we didn't know already, 3 traitors just outed themselves.

Blogger Rick June 21, 2019 6:08 AM  

Evolution via random mutations and natural selection.

Blogger Brett baker June 21, 2019 6:09 AM  

You don't buy this one off Amazon. It's about the size of a 737, can fly halfway around the world without refueling, and has some pretty pricey electronics on board.

Blogger Steb June 21, 2019 6:35 AM  

Maybe he ran it past Tucker Carlson

Blogger Lazarus June 21, 2019 6:36 AM  

A White House insider told the New York Times planes were in the air and ships were in position when the mission was called off - against the advice Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, national security adviser John R. Bolton and CIA director Gina Haspel.

Sources say.......

Its the New York Times. How do we know they are not lying?

Blogger God Emperor Memes June 21, 2019 6:50 AM  

Please. - The default position of the NYT is lying.

Blogger nswhorse June 21, 2019 7:01 AM  

If this is true, it is encouraging that Trump can tell the vermin surrounding him to back down.

Blogger PseudonymousMe June 21, 2019 7:06 AM  

Does China/Russia have drones 21miles off our coast, surveilling all? If we shot one down, would that be a cassus belli?

Blogger Doktor Jeep June 21, 2019 7:08 AM  

He just teased the hell out of the neocons. Lots of hand-rubbing stopped in mid-stroke last night.

Blogger Katusov June 21, 2019 7:10 AM  

It will be a good day for the world when Trump fires Bolton. https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-20/frustrated-trump-sours-venezuela-regime-change-after-bolton-got-played

Blogger Cinco June 21, 2019 7:31 AM  

You don't buy this one off Amazon. It's about the size of a 737, can fly halfway around the world without refueling, and has some pretty pricey electronics on board.

It’s 47 feet long... not even close to a 737. More likely, it’s monopoly control of the sensors aboard by the manufacturer.

Blogger Thad Tuiol June 21, 2019 7:36 AM  

@12 Excellent point. Goes straight over the head of so many normies though. Their hypocrisy is sickening.

Blogger AmericanDan June 21, 2019 7:44 AM  

I was thinking the Neocons probably put the assets in motion and THEN came to Trump saying everything is ready for a retaliatory strike. At that time he gave the stand down order. The Neocons can then act like he gave them the order to initiate attacks & then try to make him look indecisive.

Blogger xevious2030 June 21, 2019 7:48 AM  

@12 pseudonymous
Russia Flys them directly over, generally speaking Not aware of any such treaty with China.

Open Skies Treaty
https://infogalactic.com/info/Treaty_on_Open_Skies

Blogger Bellomy June 21, 2019 7:53 AM  

This was a great ballsy move by Trump.

Blogger Joel Oafsteen June 21, 2019 8:03 AM  

Pompeo, Kushner and Bolton are the Real Axis of Evil, but we can assume who's pulling their strings.

Blogger LSWCHP June 21, 2019 8:11 AM  

Wingspan is 130 feet according to Wikipedia. Longer than a 737 at 117 feet. Weigh about 14 tons and cruise at over 300 knots. Turbofan engine.They're a sizable aircraft, not like the drones you see buzzing ariund your neighborhood.

Blogger Harambe June 21, 2019 8:28 AM  

God Emperor Memes wrote:How the hell does a drone cost $180 million?

It's not your regular tiny little mosquito drone. The thing is as big as a fighter jet.

Blogger PJW Gent June 21, 2019 8:30 AM  

Built by Northrop Grumman, the Global Hawk is 47.6 feet (14.5 meters) long with a bulbous nose that gives it the appearance of a whale.

It has a wingspan of 130.9 feet and is packed full of sophisticated radar devices and high-definition cameras.

It can attain a maximum altitude of 60,000 feet (18.3 kilometers) and has a range of 12,300 nautical miles (22,780 kilometers).

"The high-resolution image quality makes it possible to distinguish various types of vehicles, aircraft, people and missiles, and look through adverse weather, day or night," Northrop Grumman says on its website.

The Global Hawk is one of the most expensive pieces of equipment in the US arsenal, costing $123 million apiece, according to official figures.

Blogger Azimus June 21, 2019 8:33 AM  

I find it hard to describe how much I despise Bolton. He is a real-life Worm Tongue but who is our Gandalf? Could it be Carlson?

I seriously think Bolton should be investigated as being a foreign agent. Then arrested. Then liquidated.

Blogger Azimus June 21, 2019 8:36 AM  

Maybe we should get together a petition of thanks for Bolton, to thank him that this particular round of intentional provocations and sabre rattling didn't cost any American lives. We could congratulate his humanitarian genius in contriving such a bloodless excuse to start bombing brown people.

Blogger pyrrhus June 21, 2019 8:42 AM  

Iran says that it gave the US a ten minute warning to withdraw the drone, which was ignored....

Blogger Stilicho June 21, 2019 8:51 AM  

I begin to tire of Neocommies.

Blogger Damelon Brinn June 21, 2019 9:01 AM  

A blue checkmark described the situation as Trump vs. Bolton with Pompeo, Pence, and others as "swing votes." They really, really want us to think they all have equal votes, as if the president isn't the only "vote" that matters. They want Americans to feel like it's already decided, so we'll get behind it to "support the troops," so they can get polls showing Americans support it, so they can use that to pressure Trump to go ahead. They're desperate for a war.

It reminds me of when Schumer and Pelosi came out of a dinner with Trump claiming they had an agreement on DACA without concessions on the Wall. It wasn't true, of course. I always figured they had a business-style negotiation where you say things like, "Hmm, I like the way you're thinking there," but none of it matters until you get down to putting terms on paper.

I could see the warmongers going to him with their attack plans, getting some positive-sounding "Hmm, that could work" feedback from him, and running to their media friends with "he approved it." Now he knows there's a leaker in that group, though that's probably not news.

Blogger Stilicho June 21, 2019 9:23 AM  

I suspect Bolton is the leaker: always seeking media approval and/or seeking to use media to further his neocommie schemes (e.g. Presenting his scheme as approved to make Bush afraid to go in a different direction lest he appear weak).

The "planes in the air" aspect though, was likely a feint to see how the Persians react to an imminent attack, what cards they show w/r/t their capabilities, plans, etc.

Blogger peter blandings June 21, 2019 9:23 AM  

to everyone ragging on bolton, pompeo and haspel, who do you think HIRED those idiots? that should be your first concern.

Blogger Stilicho June 21, 2019 9:25 AM  

Don't forget, a chance to successfully use the F 35 could really boost sales to foreign gov'ts.

Blogger Fozzy Bear June 21, 2019 9:27 AM  

Speaking of Carlson: it would be a huge pay cut but Trump needs a new Press Secretary...

Blogger Damelon Brinn June 21, 2019 9:31 AM  

In tweets this morning, the president explains that his generals estimated 150 people would die, and he wasn't willing to kill that many over an unmanned drone. Sounds pretty measured and presidential, and the opposite of the media caricature. He pointed out Obama's $150B payment to Iran plus $1.8B cash, which most Americans are probably still unaware of. Pelosi and Schumer are on video dancing at the prospect of killing 150 people.

He also spelled "sites" "sights," so that will give them something to grind their teeth about all day.

Wars Started Or Expanded Under Trump: 0

Blogger Doug Cranmer June 21, 2019 9:35 AM  

In his tweets, taken from Zero Hedge ...

"President Obama made a desperate and terrible deal with Iran - Gave them 150 Billion Dollars plus I.8 Billion Dollars in CASH! Iran was in big trouble and he bailed them out. Gave them a free path to Nuclear Weapons, and SOON. Instead of saying thank you, Iran yelled 'Death to America'.

I terminated deal, which was not even ratified by Congress, and imposed strong sanctions. They are a much weakened nation today than at the beginning of my Presidency, when they were causing major problems throughout the Middle East. Now they are Bust!

On Monday they shot down an unmanned drone flying in International Waters. We were cocked & loaded to retaliate last night on 3 different sights when I asked, how many will die. 150 people, sir, was the answer from a General.

10 minutes before the strike I stopped it, not proportionate to shooting down an unmanned drone.

I am in no hurry, our Military is rebuilt, new, and ready to go, by far the best in the world. Sanctions are biting & more added last night. Iran can NEVER have Nuclear Weapons, not against the USA, and not against the WORLD!"


I rather like this guy.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 21, 2019 9:35 AM  

Well if the great negotiator works out a deal with the Iranian crooks part of it should be for the Iranians to name which scum in DC took their cut of the Iranian bribe money. I assume most of the payees were Democratic gangsters with of course ties to the Republican swamp gangsters and frankly not being a principled virtuous conservative man of high moral blah blah I would like to see the Swampies fighting tooth and nail to the death.

It sure for entertainment value beat the snot out of this contard flag wrapping let us mourn for our brave drone of freedom bullcrap we are forced to applaud.

Blogger johndoe03526 June 21, 2019 9:38 AM  

Pivotal point in Trump's presidency. The deep state knows only a war in the Middle East can possibly stop Trumpslide 2020.

Blogger Sargent.matrim June 21, 2019 9:49 AM  

It's frustrating watching him get manipulated into another stupid war. Glad he's seeing through some of the lies though.

Blogger Clay June 21, 2019 9:51 AM  

Tho I know it's OT, sorta, I just finished watching an old war film, I remembered from many years ago. Most of you have probably never heard of it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_Iron

I was never a Coburn fan, but I did like Peckingpaugh.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 June 21, 2019 9:52 AM  

Remember what VD says about Trump: wait a few days.

This time, we didn't have to wait that long. I'm glad President Trump is an Alpha. No other candidate in either party would have backed down like this.

Blogger Damelon Brinn June 21, 2019 9:53 AM  

It's frustrating watching him get manipulated into another stupid war.

It's frustrating watching people get manipulated into thinking he has--once let alone "another." Gaslighting is real.

Blogger xevious2030 June 21, 2019 9:57 AM  

Well, have considered a variety of things, including a she-wolf mythos. Trump obviously has a lot of bad actors around him, took quite a while for Mattis, McMaster, and Kelly to be brought to leave. And there is the story of four Generals approaching him to run, with them warning that that was a way to avoid them launching a coup. Bush Sr. riding the coat tails of a hostile Reagan, with Reagan almost being assassinated soon after election. Clintons probably buddy buddy with criminal activity through Littlerock in Iran Contra, elected after the Perot feint. Then two terms of Bush. Two terms of junior nobody Obama, likely with an actual father a porn producing CIA tool. I mean, it just looks like most of the presidencies/vice presidencies were orchestrated for decades now.

As a possible, Trump may have been approached, and put in, being given freer reign on economic issues, with little say in the makeup of the administration or a number of non-economic activity/policy. If that were the metric, then Trump has been doing a bang up job under quite stringent latitude. And if that is the case, then efforts would need to be made to turn the tables on puppet and master. There is simply no way Pompeo and Bolton stand out as natural choices.

Trump apparently was genuinely frustrated with Sessions, but did not apparently call the shots. Pence was a compromise to placate the Republican Party machine. Actual Trump helpers are facing court, are in jail, or being shut down, and Trump Tweets. The Trump Tweets seem as cheerleading, and not in the manner of someone in control. Time to put him in control. If he is being handled, time to expose and take down the handlers, ensure Trump he has the support to be President, that he has an army at his disposal, not just military members, to back him up, against enemies both foreign and domestic. That he is not surrounded, they are. And that that army is at his command.

Blogger Borsabil June 21, 2019 10:00 AM  

All the concern trolling every time the (((neocons))) launch one of their gay ops in the ME. See! Trump is a zionist tool! He's betrayed us. He's a liar and a shill.

Trump is a lot of things but an idiot isn't one of them. The old days of dropping bombs on an aspirin factory and enjoying a 10 point bump in approval ratings are long, long gone. The GE knows that a no shit war would be the end of him, 80% of Americans are implacably opposed. I mostly ignore the war chants from the tribe, he's got this. Still not tired.

"to everyone ragging on bolton, pompeo and haspel, who do you think HIRED those idiots? that should be your first concern."

Which is why he's the President and you're some rando sperg black pilling on the intrawebs. Why do you think a President who's against war in the ME would want to keep Israel firsters close? Take your time.

Blogger xevious2030 June 21, 2019 10:08 AM  

Might be a nice chant at all future Trump rallies.

No Bolton, No Pompeo, Trump Army, Trump Army.

Scare the crap out of the Democrats and the NeoCons.

Blogger Dan in Georgia June 21, 2019 10:12 AM  

Trying to lie us into war and then getting butt-hurt when he isn’t fooled. Look for more “spending time with the family” retirements.

Blogger Clay June 21, 2019 10:22 AM  

Yeah, I realized I eviscerated Peckinpah's name, but only after I hit enter. My bad.

Blogger English Tom June 21, 2019 10:23 AM  

@Clay

Yes cross of iron. Steiner on the Eastern front. Great stuff!

Blogger Dan in Georgia June 21, 2019 10:26 AM  

Unfortunately, Iran is just as worried about looking weak as we are. This could be why they are being teased.

Could Mossad have a guy advising THEM too?

Blogger Wazdakka June 21, 2019 10:31 AM  

Borsabil wrote:Which is why he's the President and you're some rando sperg black pilling on the intrawebs. Why do you think a President who's against war in the ME would want to keep Israel firsters close? Take your time.

If you are correct then a 4D chess player he is.
Can't wait to read the personal accounts of this presidency in 20 years.

Blogger Crew June 21, 2019 10:35 AM  

I think the God-Emperor was trolling them.

Blogger Damelon Brinn June 21, 2019 10:37 AM  

If anyone needed proof Trump did the right thing, Shapiro is mad that they didn't get their "disproportionate response."

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 21, 2019 10:42 AM  

Notice the first part of Trump's tweet, basically saying to the Swamp I know you take bribe money from all sides, and daring the swamp to break its truce.

Blogger English Tom June 21, 2019 10:44 AM  

I think people are being premature in congratulating Trump for denying the crazies their Iran war. As Borsabil has noted, 80% against war in the ME, so, they have to make it seem as though there is great reluctance on Trump's part to go to war.
But, this situation is nowhere near over. What we are witnessing is a psy op against Trump's base. Eventually war will happen, and Trump can say "they gave us no choice."

Blogger kurt9 June 21, 2019 10:49 AM  

At least we know Trump does not want to start a war with Iran. The open question is if he is able to reign in the "deep state" assholes who are trying to start such a war.

I think this sheds light on the larger picture as well. I've wondered why Trump has not gone after Hillary for her corruption as well as the democrats in general. I think this is because he has to deal with the deep state first, which is the bigger threat to him and all of us, than the democrats themselves. I think Trump is doing what he always has done. He gives his subordinates plenty of rope to work with. They can either do something productive with that rope or use it to hang themselves. Hopefully the neocons will end up hanging themselves with the rope that Trump has given them.

Blogger allyn71 June 21, 2019 10:57 AM  

What a coincidence someone was in position to capture that candid moment with Chuck and Nancy dancing a jig. Can't be easy to get into a position like that...and it happened at the perfect time.

Blogger xevious2030 June 21, 2019 11:03 AM  

So, the logic is, fill your administration with people diametrically opposed to your platform, who try to undermine your policy and substitute their own at every turn, so that you can once in a while not do their policy and be the supreme Secret King of the United States of America?

Blogger xevious2030 June 21, 2019 11:06 AM  

And by fill, I mean as a matter of sheer preference.

Blogger Patrick Kelly June 21, 2019 11:13 AM  

Show me another POTUS who has stood up to and contradicted the neo-con chicken hawks like this.

I tire of all the hand wringing despair aimed at Trump, "he hasen't done what he said...he didn't build a wall" it is started, "more illegals now than ever" he's openly talking of mass deportations, "he's going to war with Iran.." not so fast nervous nellies.

This is a socio-political civil war. You they everything is going to be quick, simple, and painless?

Week kneed simpletons.

Blogger wahr01 June 21, 2019 11:24 AM  

Facts:

The drone in question was a vintage 1998 design.
The drone was Unmanned.

No sane leader should care if a hunk of equipment is damaged with zero risk to life or regional stability.

The fact this was even considered at all reeks of kissenger madman posturing.

Blogger Tars Tarkas June 21, 2019 11:26 AM  

For all the kvetching about Bolton, it was Trump that hired him! He knew Bolton was a psycho warmonger when he hired him.

Trump was always a bit too hawkish on the Middle East and Iran in particular, even during the campaign.

Blogger wahr01 June 21, 2019 11:31 AM  

@59 Trump understands that if you do go to war you must do so without reservation.

Bolton is the closest match to that need, he just needs to be muzzled and chained when it's not that time, and Trump does that, too.

Blogger Lazarus June 21, 2019 11:31 AM  

Who sent the drone into Iranian airspace?

Blogger xevious2030 June 21, 2019 11:38 AM  

Patrick Kelly, Trump has, as you said. He has also filled his administration with people who are, problematic, to use a nice term. Generally, there are two probabilities. One is that he prefers them to be there doing what they do, the other is that he does not prefer them to be there doing what they do. The latter has a strong case. And if that is the situation, that he placed them out of necessity, not preference, then Trump needs an army at his beck and call that scares the hell out of the Deep State to the point that his hands become free.

Blogger Tars Tarkas June 21, 2019 11:40 AM  

Damelon Brinn wrote:He pointed out Obama's $150B payment to Iran plus $1.8B cash, which most Americans are probably still unaware of.

I'm pretty sure it was their money that we stole from them being returned. I'm pretty sure it came from seizures of Iranian assets in 1979 after the coup and the hostages. This money has been a stupid neocon talking point since it was returned to them.

Blogger Jeroth June 21, 2019 11:41 AM  

I think it was theater. Just like bombing the empty airfield in Syria was theater. He wants everyone to think he was really going to do it. But this brinkmanship needs to stop. The neocons are surely hoping they can manufacture enough of these crises until the nature of probability gives them what they want. Keeping himself surrounded by them is dangerous for everyone.

On the other hand, it is satisfying seeing Little Benji with blue balls:

Disproportionate response to attacks on US assets are a good way of showing our enemies that we will mash them if they continue to escalate. The US doesn’t want war. You know who doesn’t want war even more? The ayatollahs who will find themselves quite dead if war occurs.

Blogger Clay June 21, 2019 11:49 AM  

Tars Tarkas wrote:Damelon Brinn wrote:He pointed out Obama's $150B payment to Iran plus $1.8B cash, which most Americans are probably still unaware of.

I'm pretty sure it was their money that we stole from them being returned. I'm pretty sure it came from seizures of Iranian assets in 1979 after the coup and the hostages. This money has been a stupid neocon talking point since it was returned to them.


Wow. You're pretty sure about not shit. Impressive.

Blogger wahr01 June 21, 2019 11:49 AM  

@63

The whole point was the mullahs are not the owners of that money, the shah's government was. Iran is essentially a terrorist group with permanent state territory, and giving them those billions was the single dumbest idea since giving Iraq state-of-the-art US weapons before the nation was properly stabilized.

Blogger xevious2030 June 21, 2019 12:03 PM  

“I asked, how many will die. 150 people, sir, was the answer from a General. 10 minutes before the strike I stopped it, not proportionate to shooting down an unmanned drone. I am in no hurry, our Military is rebuilt, new, and ready to go, by far the best in the world. Sanctions are biting & more added last night. Iran can NEVER have Nuclear Weapons, not against the USA, and not against the WORLD!” -- Donald Trump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump

Blogger Noah B. June 21, 2019 12:05 PM  

Trump is not above trolling the deep state.

Blogger Whackame40k June 21, 2019 12:06 PM  

These AP and NYT dont contradict targeting methodology in DoD.

Being asked for a list of planned High Value Targets or High Payoff Targets by the NS Adv from DoD, and then POTUS going straight to the generals to ask, " so what are the second order effects-would we kill anyone? " is probably exactly how it happened.

The civie warhawks made POTUS visualize inanimate infrastructure, not occupied and manned positions

Basically, liars lie. Screwtape qas right-hell is a beaurecracy where each subsumes the other

Blogger Damelon Brinn June 21, 2019 12:09 PM  

@60, Right. Washington DC isn't exactly swarming with non-neocons with heavy foreign policy experience after 30+ years of bipartisan neocon rule. Trump wanted Flynn, but they took him off the board early. One thing you can say for guys like Bolton and Pompeo is that they know the job and they have full Rolodexes of critical people around the world. If bad stuff goes down in a hurry--and that's always possible because we're not the only country that can start things--at least they know whom to call. They're also predictable. As long as Trump knows he's never going to give them their war, because he's a grown man and doesn't change his mind just because someone nags him a lot, he probably figures he can take advantage of their experience and if they want to fantasize about war in their free time who cares.

Before anyone says "but they'll find a way to false flag it": firing them wouldn't stop that. If the neocons are able to pull off a false flag that ties his hands, it won't be run from the White House. You know where that operation will be run from.

Blogger Tars Tarkas June 21, 2019 12:10 PM  

Clay wrote:Wow. You're pretty sure about not shit. Impressive.

There was a lot of propaganda about that money at the time. Given all of the propaganda around Iran, I qualified it.

wahr01 wrote:The whole point was the mullahs are not the owners of that money, the shah's government was

Well, whoever it belongs to, it's not our money. It may have made sense at the time to take it because it was a new thing that might have collapsed if deprived of money. But Iran has been under the same government for 40 years. The Iranian people fought bravely for the Iranian state. They obviously think their government is legitimate.
The Shah was a Western puppet. The current Iranian government is more legit than the Shah ever was.

Besides that, it's none of our damned business. There are only 2 reasons why we meddle in the Middle East so much, Jews and oil. It ain't our oil and the Jews ain't my problem. Tell the Jews to go send their kids to die fighting pointless wars. Let them spend their own money fighting these stupid pointless wars. Saudi Arabia and Israel can team up to fight Iran if they hate them so much.

Blogger Tars Tarkas June 21, 2019 12:18 PM  

Jeroth wrote:On the other hand, it is satisfying seeing Little Benji with blue balls:

The replies to his chickenhawk crowing are comedic gold.

Blogger JohnofAustria June 21, 2019 12:32 PM  

The Shah's government was a dictator put in place by the CIA. We held it because we were pissed our game didn't work.

Blogger binks webelf June 21, 2019 12:32 PM  

Neo-Clowns must go!

Ditch Shadow-President (((Kushner))). Nobody voted for him. Ditch Pompeo, Bolton, Haspel... or at least scare them within an inch of their lives so they are lest rogue & disobedient.

Give Trump a yuge benefit of the doubt.

Remember that God is still God, who ruleth over heaven & earth.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 21, 2019 1:02 PM  

English Tom wrote:What we are witnessing is a psy op against Trump's base. Eventually war will happen, and Trump can say "they gave us no choice."
If Trump wanted war, we'd have it now. Don't you useless, stupid, black-pilled despair mongering cucks ever tire of being wrong?

Blogger Chris Mallory June 21, 2019 1:03 PM  

wahr01 wrote:The whole point was the mullahs are not the owners of that money, the shah's government was. Iran is essentially a terrorist group with permanent state territory, and giving them those billions was the single dumbest idea since giving Iraq state-of-the-art US weapons before the nation was properly stabilized.

The point is it was the Iranian people's money, not the Shah's. Iran is the people, not the government.

The point is, the "Iranian terror" is nothing but Israeli propaganda.

The $150 Billion number is universally considered a gross exaggeration. The US Treasury Department says it is probably closer to $50 Billion. Other sources put it as low as $25 Billion. This money was made up of Iran's overseas assets, very little of which was liquid cash.
The $1.8 Billion was the $400 million Iran paid for military parts/gear that was never delivered. A negotiated settlement was made to repay that $400 million plus interest. It was Iran's money, not the Shah's.

Blogger Damelon Brinn June 21, 2019 1:09 PM  

Do you guys even rhetoric? The point is Obama went out of his way to hand a bunch of money to a nation that the DC establishment now says is Terror Threat #1. Who cares about the details?

Blogger James Dixon June 21, 2019 1:17 PM  

> It will be a good day for the world when Trump fires Bolton

Bolton is Trump's bad cop. Eventually his usefulness in that role will be over and he'll be gone.

> He knew Bolton was a psycho warmonger when he hired him.

Yes, he did. What part of bad cop is hard to understand?

> Who sent the drone into Iranian airspace?

That's a very good question, and needs to be answered, though not in a public manner. There's a good chance it was just someone asleep at the controls, so to speak. Though we have no confirmation from our people that it was, only from the Iranian side.

> I'm pretty sure it was their money that we stole from them being returned.

Attacking our embassy was an act of war. Seizing their assets held in the US was letting them off lightly.

Blogger Michael June 21, 2019 1:29 PM  

ME instability is good for US oil producers who are not so well off financially at the moment (e.g., banks cutting back lending into the shale plays). NY Times was reporting tumbling oil prices in early June. Now, we've got headlines about oil price spikes. It's not about control of Iranian oil long-term. Producers have debt service payments to worry about today.

Blogger Chris Mallory June 21, 2019 1:31 PM  

James Dixon wrote:Attacking our embassy was an act of war. Seizing their assets held in the US was letting them off lightly.

Overthrowing their elected president and supporting the Shah's secret police for 25 years were acts of war.

Blogger xevious2030 June 21, 2019 1:56 PM  

"Overthrowing their elected president and supporting the Shah's secret police for 25 years were acts of war."

Yes, it was. So What? The US committed an act of war, overthrew them. They committed an act of war, and attacked the US. The US committed an act of war, seized the money. Iran is under no obligation to like the US, and the US was under no obligation to let loose of the money. Obama committed a treasonable offense, verifiable by more than two witnesses, with a country listed as terrorist, in a war on terror, and with which we have no diplomatic mission due to ongoing hostility. The world sucks, it isn't fair. You do, or you don't.

Blogger Azimus June 21, 2019 2:22 PM  

CrewJune 21, 2019 10:35 AM
I think the God-Emperor was trolling them.


This. His excuse of to high a body count rings false. Then you just reduce the number of targets until you find an acceptable body count. I suspect his strategy is to get out in front of these grave escalations, and "spike the guns" so to speak, dissipating the appetite for war and making the hawks look buffoonish.

But maybe I'm just trying to believe too much. Who knows? So far the results look good - no war.

Blogger Tars Tarkas June 21, 2019 2:40 PM  

James Dixon wrote:Attacking our embassy was an act of war. Seizing their assets held in the US was letting them off lightly.

Wasn't it a bunch of students and not the Iranian state that did this?

How much do we actually know about what went down? We cannot rely on the information we have, especially from the media. It happened recently enough that we likely do not know the truth of what happened.

The US government supported the massive attacks on Iran in the 80s by the Iraqis including chemical weapons.
The US doesn't have clean hands when it comes to Iran.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 21, 2019 2:40 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 21, 2019 2:42 PM  

One thing to remember in all of this --

The purpose of a drone is to fly it in places where you don't risk putting a pilot (who can be killed or captured) ... so you use a drone, because the controller, sitting in a building in Nebraska, facing ZERO danger to his health and well-being, is absolutely FEARLESS to put it exactly where the mission calls for.

The only surprise to me is that we haven't started using spread-spectrum radio systems (which are practically impossible to jam) to convert over the entirety of our aircraft that perform missions over hostile territory and run it all out of an AWACS. Maybe there's bandwidth issues.

Blogger xevious2030 June 21, 2019 2:45 PM  

You know, this whole drone thing looks so passive aggressive. It’s got “let’s you and him fight” written all over it. Trump is an Alpha. Alphas take the freakin’ army and they march it in. You piss them off, they come swinging. Gammas, like Bolton, like Pompeo, are always standing up saying make the first move, while provoking to pose as the victim. It doesn’t matter what kind of rolodex they are. If they’re a rolodex, bolt them to the damn desk, and tell them to keep their mouth shut until you need them to give you a number for your guy to talk to. You don’t need a bad cop, you make people plenty aware that if they provoke you, you’re going to knock their block off. An Alpha doesn’t say, well, I really like you, but you see that other guy, he wants to clean your clock. It’s dishonest and cowardly. An Alpha might lure someone out to look stupid, to expose themselves, but he doesn’t weenie threaten. The Alpha has Bolten, and does not want war with Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, North Korea, anybody, has to talk it down, every freakin’ time. Forget chess, checkers, hopscotch, why does an Alpha do that? Why would an Alpha tweet in unequivocal terms, and act like things are not in his control?

Blogger xevious2030 June 21, 2019 2:49 PM  

Not in control, aside from the one I posted above. More along the lines of Sessions, revoking security clearances, unfair, witch hunts, treason, that sort of thing.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 21, 2019 3:14 PM  

@83

"
>Attacking our embassy was an act of war. Seizing their assets held in the US was letting them off lightly.


Wasn't it a bunch of students and not the Iranian state that did this?"

Yeah, "students" with military equipment.

Most of those "students" are STILL in the Iranian government to this very day. Their last president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was one of those "students."

Blogger Chris Mallory June 21, 2019 4:29 PM  

@81
How does that Israeli male genital taste?

Blogger wahr01 June 21, 2019 4:47 PM  

Seem to be a lot of new names here shilling for the Iranian mullahs.

Nobody here is going to consider your regime legitimate, guys; Just be glad we're not interested in military strikes over an over-priced flying p.c. and go away already.



Blogger xevious2030 June 21, 2019 5:34 PM  

@89 Next time build a better argument than how unfair the past was. I mean, you can probably find someone to whine with. Except for the stupidity of getting into a pointless war with Iran, Iran is pretty much not on my radar, at all.

Blogger Sargent.matrim June 21, 2019 6:26 PM  

That is a good point.

Blogger English Tom June 21, 2019 6:35 PM  

@Snidely

Where am I wrong Snidely? I said this is a psy op against Trump's base. And that this situation is far from over.

I am not a despair monger. I often enjoy a good hearty chuckle at the world's insanity!
Just because Trump denied the crazies a strike this time does not mean he will always do it. Uncle Sheldon will see to that.

Blogger Rhys June 21, 2019 7:45 PM  

Anybody know a way I can meaningfully send my regards to the President for this? Even if it's just his twitter secretary or something. He ought to know that his base supports this.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 21, 2019 10:47 PM  

Reaponding to an attack is called defense. The Mullahs will answer to Iranians for their attrocities. These uSA experienced blowback for using the embassy as the operational center for overthrowing the hist government.
And no, burglar cannot claim self-defense.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 21, 2019 10:50 PM  

I am not a new name in this neck of the woods.

Blogger Primus Pilus June 21, 2019 10:53 PM  

wahr01 wrote:Seem to be a lot of new names here shilling for the Iranian mullahs.

Nobody here is going to consider your regime legitimate, guys; Just be glad we're not interested in military strikes over an over-priced flying p.c. and go away already.



I've been reading here for a decade, posting for less, although screen names have changed a couple times over the course of that posting. Many of the people upthread pointing out US lies regarding Iran are also names I recognize, not new arrivals. Not everyone who disagrees with your wholesale regurgitation of neocon lies regarding Iran is an Iranian shill. You act like a longtime reader here, but have you ever actually learned anything from this blog?

The Iranian attack on the US embassy was far more legitimate than anything the colonials did during the US Revolution. The British government in 1776 was the lawful government, and the same people as the colonists. By comparison, the US embassy in Iran was the control center of an occupying foreign power that had overthrown the natives' government and imposed a brutal tyrant on them. "Fighting back" is not an act of war.

It amazes me that some folks here still uncritically swallow the imperial propaganda of a state that hates them. The US government wants Americans erased far more than any Persian does.

You don't have to love Persians or Islam in order to speak the truth.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 22, 2019 12:26 AM  

"I said this is a psy op against Trump's base. And that this situation is far from over."

More accurately, you assume that's what it is. Bad faith. Until he actually starts a war, you're doing nothing more than providing nigredo downers.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 22, 2019 12:29 AM  

Expect the best, prepare for the worst.

Trust but verify.

Familiar?

Blogger Dirk Manly June 22, 2019 2:01 AM  

@93

"Uncle Sheldon will see to that."

Obama set the precedent for drone strikes against U.S. citizens w/o so much as the mailing of an order to appear in court for charges, let alone an arrest.

Using Obama's precedent on Sheldon and the Koch brothers would go along way towards un-cucking the Republican party.

Blogger xevious2030 June 22, 2019 3:07 AM  

Attacking an embassy is an act of war, whether fighting back or not. Iran was not an unspoiled flower before 1953. And the Islamic Revolution was more CIA crap. The non-Trotskeyite portion. Apparently the Trotskeyite portion has some burned bridges. The 1970s Obama daddy portion, not so much. Anyway, 1971 CIA guy gets to be VP (almost President, by a bullet), and Iran rolls over like a sweet CIA puppy dog to hand over the hostages. They've been running Iran, they've been running the US. But let's cry about who was/is the bigger victim. How about this, both Deep State regimes suck.

Blogger xevious2030 June 22, 2019 7:41 AM  

1981, not 1971.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 22, 2019 1:20 PM  

English Tom wrote:@Snidely

Where am I wrong Snidely? I said this is a psy op against Trump's base. And that this situation is far from over.

There will be no war against Iran. You think you're amazingly clever for regurgitating Mossad talking points and assuring us you know the game being played in the White House. You don't even know the game being played here.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 22, 2019 1:21 PM  

English Tom wrote: I said this is a psy op against Trump's base. And that this situation is far from over.
And yes, there is a psyop being played against Trump's base. Any you're part of it, knowingly or not.

Blogger wahr01 June 22, 2019 4:25 PM  

Primus Pilus wrote:

Not everyone who disagrees with your wholesale regurgitation of neocon lies regarding Iran is an Iranian shill.



Notice I didn't mention your username and yet here you are conspicuously protesting.

I rest my case.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd June 22, 2019 11:42 PM  

Mohammedans are at war with us, whether or not we are at war with them.

Blogger Daniel June 23, 2019 12:23 PM  

The guy is awesome.

Blogger James Dixon June 23, 2019 9:04 PM  

> Overthrowing their elected president and supporting the Shah's secret police for 25 years were acts of war.

Oh, I agree. I never said we hadn't done the same.

> Wasn't it a bunch of students and not the Iranian state that did this?

Do you really think they didn't have state backing? Notice nothing was ever done to them.

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