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Wednesday, June 05, 2019

Survival is not a right-wing ideology

Even left-wing Danes want Denmark to remain Denmark:
Denmark goes to the polls in a general election today, with the centre-left Social Democrats predicted to win after adopting the right wing's long-standing tough stance on immigration.

Opinion polls put the party, led by Mette Frederiksen, at 27.2 per cent, a comfortable lead of almost 10 percentage points ahead of Prime Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen's ruling Liberal Party, which has been in power for 14 of the last 18 years.

The polls also indicate that the far-right Danish People's Party, which has informally supported Rasmussen's minority government, could lose almost half its support, shrinking to 10.7 per cent. For the last two decades the anti-immigrant party has supported successive right-wing governments in exchange for the implementation of their restrictive immigration policies. But as those policies have now been broadly adopted by almost all Danish parties, the Danish People's Party has lost its unique appeal with voters.
Right and Left are now irrelevant. Immigration and identity are the first and foremost issue because it is an existential crisis. What difference does a difference of opinion on optimal tax rates make to a nonexistent people? A nation can survive communism and socialism and dictatorship, but it cannot survive excessive immigration nor can it long abide rule by foreigners.

As Matteo Salvini has demonstrated, an alliance with left-wing nationalists is the best way to save a nation from destruction by invasion.

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45 Comments:

Blogger ZhukovG June 05, 2019 6:08 AM  

If a single payer health system is the price of getting my country back, I shall gladly pay and consider it a bargain.

Hot or cold; this lukewarm globalist porridge is grotesque.


Blogger joke10 June 05, 2019 6:18 AM  

The problem with adopting left wing values in order to increase support for individual issues is that the left has already advertised and effectively displayed its stance on every subject, and now have the advantage of group identity within its ideology. Attempts to repatriate left wingers on certain issues, like that of the 'traditional liberals' (virtue of stances is insignificant) have failed, and an alliance with left wing nationalists would not require that they dropped socialism, but would require that they stopped identifying as left wingers. It seems to me that the right left distinctions are not only possibly harmful, but largely meaningless. The original definitions of right and left as pre-existing institution supporters or protesters no longer exist, in favor of a number of stances on sometimes non-binary micro issues which are arbitrarily divided. Of course, the benefits of group ideology still need to be maintained, so a possible alternative to this is to create single issue groups, or at least groups with top-heavy hierarchies of issue value, that still require a minimum, weighted agreement to enter.

Blogger Rhys June 05, 2019 6:19 AM  

While the political and economic divisions are becoming irrelevant, do you think the left/right divide will reinvigorate itself as the division between left hand and right hand path?

Blogger Brett baker June 05, 2019 6:22 AM  

How many left-wing nationalists are there in the USA, SDL? Sometimes Bernie Sanders sounded like one, but other than that?

Blogger D E K June 05, 2019 6:38 AM  

Amen to Vox's analysis.

Danes are a lucky nation and hopefully another great example going forward.

From the german perspective it all seems worlds apart. Here everything against migrants and asylumseekers is perceived by the majority as pure evil. There are hundreds of thousands asylum aplicants which were rejected, but they just stay here anyway with the nice adjective "geduldet" - tolerated.

Danmark is small, but it hopefully will be a bright light how to proceed.
Somebody posted in the comments a link to the Danish politician Rasmus Paludan burning Qurans and triggering a BBC reporter - I greatly enjoyed it.

Blogger VD June 05, 2019 7:31 AM  

How many left-wing nationalists are there in the USA, SDL?

Not very many, because there aren't very many nationalists of any kind in the USA. That's why Hitler referred to the USA as "a mongrel nation" and is the long-term price of civic nationalism.

Blogger D E K June 05, 2019 7:40 AM  

VD

I learned in school that Hitler used the term mongrel race - Kötterrasse, but as mongrel nation it is almost funny and accurate.
In Germany a court has decided that a Turk with German passport can rightfully call the German Nation Kötterrasse.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.welt.de/regionales/hamburg/article162442610/Deutsche-duerfen-ungestraft-Koeterrasse-genannt-werden.html

Blogger Hammerli 280 June 05, 2019 8:07 AM  

The problem is that the modern Left has its roots in Communism - which is expressly transnational and revolutionary.

A strong case can be made, though, that the combination of nationalism and socialism is politically VERY strong. Hitler wasn't stupid, he realized that German politics in the 1920s consisted of the conservative/monarchist faction, the social democrat faction, and the Communists. And the conservatives and social democrats were NOT diametrically opposed. Hitler could give them each about 60% of what they wanted, maybe a bit more. And kick the Communist's teeth in...which everybody liked.

The important part is not to try and conquer other nations. Do that, and the trouble starts.

Blogger J.M. June 05, 2019 8:23 AM  

In the short and long term, the issue will have to be solved with bullets. There is not so much a left and right divide as there is a divide between people who look forward to leave a legacy to their posterity and people who think the present is all there is and whose battlecry is "aprés moi, le deluge". The leftists are like those ungrateful heirs whose vision of progress is to make a lifelong party after selling the family assets, roasting the porks, slaughtering all the milk cows and eating all the harvest...without sowing the fields again, after all they are after redistribution of the wealth and whose vision of kindness is to leave their elders living under the bridge after they brought ruin to their house.

The only reason some of the left are helping is because many are starting to see what Friedman once said: "You can have a welfare state or open borders, but you cannot have both..."

Blogger SciVo June 05, 2019 8:25 AM  

I have told the story before about how in 2015-16, I had a pact with a far left-wing friend that I would vote for Sanders if he got the nom and Trump didn't, and she would vote for Trump in the reverse case. (She did.)

To add some details, I viewed it as a win-win, because a sincere socialism would fail faster, versus the insidious "managed decline" of the bipartisan Establishment.

Also, it damaged her marriage. The SocJus cult has done a very good job of programming its acolytes to see Trump in starkly binary moral terms. I've had some great convos with her husband, but never on politics; even though he is intelligent and interesting on many other topics, on the left, only the most radically independent thinkers can shrug the chains off their minds.

So lefty nationalists exist in America. But I cannot argue that they are common.

Blogger Stilicho June 05, 2019 8:29 AM  

When I spent time in Denmark in the 90s I found them to be fairly practical and nationalistic. They hate the Germans (still pissed about WWII... and some even about the loss of Holstein...), they considered the British boorish drunks, and they were very fond of Americans (certainly compared to many other europeans).

And the girls... ah, the girls... tall, beautiful, and very fond of Marines.

Blogger Roman Daoist June 05, 2019 8:30 AM  

There's the left and then there's the left.

* Denmark had the "Do it for Denmark" government campaign to motivate people to make babies.
* Danes are not sympathetic to their neighbour Sweden - in particular re the immigration shit-show.
* Denmark has compulsory military service.
* As was quoted, what was 'right-wing' has been normalised - suggesting the left weren't far off from the indiffernt centre.

So the Danish Left just may not be the kind of Left that we're used to in the West. Maybe more of the classic tree-hugging hippy kind than the rabid femnazi multi-culti worshipping identity-groupy kind.

Thusly the assertion that 'Right and Left are now irrelevant' may be dependant on a moderate, polite left. (Otherwise btw how could the US be 'A million times worse?')

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 05, 2019 8:30 AM  

Geography might have a bit to do with it, went to Infogalactic got the size of the country/population ratio and have concluded rightly or wrongly that the diversity fetish lefties have come up against the diversity.

In America the white lefty clowns spend a huge amount of energies avoiding their coalition partners, and since the conservative cargo cult of clowns muddies the argument with magic thinking no one is there to force Lil Polly Purple Hair up against strong men of color who would make Polly do unnatural sex acts for pennies.

Blogger Balkan Yankee June 05, 2019 8:39 AM  

There are probably more than a few Democrat politicians who privately understand the seriousness of the immigration problem, but the Gutless Wonders would rather strike a pose against CO2 than grapple with immigration.

Climate change has become the ultimate political dodge.

Blogger Andrew Brown June 05, 2019 8:41 AM  

Imagine trying to form an alliance with the Scottish Nationalist Party? You'd end up wringing their necks. It'll be impossible to get those left-wing nationalists to abandon their immigration policies, but I suppose maybe they'll wake up and see the damage they've done.

Blogger Zaklog the Great June 05, 2019 8:46 AM  

an alliance with left-wing nationalists is the best way to save a nation from destruction by invasion

Are there left wing nationalists in the U.S.? It appears to me that, in our country at least, leftist necessarily implies globalist. Bernie Sanders was opposed to immigration, but the Democrat Party beat him back in line.

Blogger OGRE June 05, 2019 8:47 AM  

I'll stand with a God fearing socialist before an atheist libertarian anyday.
Some things are more important than economic efficiency and individual rights. Those things are means to an end, not morally good ends in and of themselves. They can and should be subordinated to a higher order moral end, such as survival.

Blogger VD June 05, 2019 8:52 AM  

Thusly the assertion that 'Right and Left are now irrelevant' may be dependant on a moderate, polite left. (Otherwise btw how could the US be 'A million times worse?')

No. You completely missed the point. The US is much worse because its demographic situation is far more dire.

Blogger pyrrhus June 05, 2019 8:56 AM  

Both major parties in the US are firmly in the virtue-signaling anti-survival camp, and so are the Kushners, who seem to rule the WH for the most part...It is going to take some very hard times to turn the ruling classes around on immigration, or overthrow them....

Blogger Dark glasses Woody June 05, 2019 9:01 AM  

The lamps are being lit all over Europe and we shall not see them extinguished in our life-time

Blogger Damelon Brinn June 05, 2019 9:34 AM  

Are there left wing nationalists in the U.S.? It appears to me that, in our country at least, leftist necessarily implies globalist.

It does. American leftists see America and the US Constitution, with its attempts to limit government power, as opposed to their goals, so they seek globalist governance to override those limits. They assume a global government would be run by the UN or something like it and operated by people like the EU bureaucrats, so it would be more amenable to more gun control, more abortion, more welfare, environmentalism, etc. That seems like an easier route than getting those things through the American system. When they fantasize about the coming civil war, they talk about the UN and EU arming them and fighting alongside them against the real Americans.

So trying to imagine a white left-wing nationalist in America is hard. Maybe that's something that can develop among whatever's left of the native blue collar population. It's easier for me to picture black left-wing nationalists, although of course they're nationalist for a different nation. But they could be allies.

Blogger sammibandit June 05, 2019 9:40 AM  

FWIW tomorrow is the 800th year anniversary of the Danish Flag (Dannebrog).

Blogger Garuna June 05, 2019 9:41 AM  

There are left-wing nationalists in America. The rust belt didn't move rightwards economically, but it voted for Trump because of trade and immigration.

Blogger sammibandit June 05, 2019 9:43 AM  

They hate the Germans but love the music. And good call on Holstein. That always comes up in conversation.

Blogger Dave June 05, 2019 10:07 AM  

Vox, is Holmganger the Scandinavian pagan comic still in the works?

Also, thought I'd let you know after watching the Arkstream late Sunday night I ordered multiple copies of AHQ #1 along with catching up on AH #6, CDA #3, QM #3, and the huge beast RDR in full, from the Castalia Direct Bookstore. My order went in at 1:10 am on Monday and by Tuesday morning UPS delivered. Standard shipping; I don't recall even being given the option for priority shipping. Now if we ever get free shipping there will be no excuse to ever use that other outfit again.

Everything looks fantastic. Really digging the standard sizing of AH:Q, CDA #3 and QM #3.

Blogger john darson June 05, 2019 10:10 AM  

This is an excellent point - and it ought to make the intellectually ossified 'conservatives', - who think nations are nothing but economic zones - scream and wail at the truth.

Blogger Damelon Brinn June 05, 2019 10:28 AM  

There are left-wing nationalists in America. The rust belt didn't move rightwards economically, but it voted for Trump because of trade and immigration.

I could go down to the local Democrat Club and find Democrats who voted for Trump, but I wouldn't call them left-wing. They might hold some left-wing positions, or at least positions that were traditionally left-wing, like wanting to tax rich people more and do more to help the working poor. But they also own lots of guns, think welfare is too generous, and think gays should shut up already. They're reachable on nationalism because they're center/center-right on social issues and vote Democrat on family/neighborhood loyalties and because they grew up seeing the GOP as the party of Wall Street. Also their left-wing impulses wouldn't be served by global government -- no one's fool enough to think the UN running things would be good for American coal miners.

If those people count as left-wing, then there is a bloc there to work with. I tend to think of leftists as the blue checkmark types who have embraced the whole leftist program, the ones who actually take preferred pronouns seriously, but maybe I'm defining it too strictly.

Blogger Nate73 June 05, 2019 10:32 AM  

@21: Based on what I've seen on twitter I wouldn't be surprised, but I can't recall people fantasizing about fighting alongside the UN *against* the military.

Blogger Richard Rahl June 05, 2019 10:37 AM  

The fracture of the USA is certain. There is a swell of nationalism on the political Right in the US that will never happen on the Left because of the ethnic demographics as Vox pointed out above. The Left won't abandon multiculturalism because they value power over everything and they know that without the minorities they have nothing.
What I am hoping and praying is that before the fracture of the US Empire a majority of the political right (which is at least a white super-majority) see the necessity of nationalism for the security of the states that result. If this doesn't happen, which is possible, Christian states that emerge are doomed to fail violently if they are not properly Christian Nationalist. I forsee a decent possibility that churchians will try their hands at churchian civic nationalism.

Blogger Patrick Kelly June 05, 2019 10:48 AM  

SciVo wrote:I have told the story before about how in 2015-16, I had a pact with a far left-wing friend that I would vote for Sanders if he got the nom and Trump didn't, and she would vote for Trump in the reverse case....

Yes,
If a left leaning acquaintance asks me why I voted for Trump, my rhetorical answer is that if the Repubs had nominated anyone other than Trump, and the Dems nominated Sanders, I would have voted for Sanders for many of the same reasons I voted for Trump.

If they don't understand after that, they would never understand further explanation from me.

Blogger sammibandit June 05, 2019 11:18 AM  

>The problem with adopting left wing values in order to increase support for individual issues is that the left has already advertised and effectively displayed its stance on every subject, and now have the advantage of group identity within its ideology.

This is overstated. They have massive problems with groupthink and the smallest slight properly applied by one person can nuke a whole organization. I know because I've seen it first hand in the hard left. Eg/ anarchists who don't believe in property get mad at jokers like me and my old crew crashing on their couch and eating their vegan ice cream after a night at the bar. Closed a nasty punk house that way doing it weekend after weekend to prove a point. SHWAL is our handbook.

>Of course, the benefits of group ideology still need to be maintained, so a possible alternative to this is to create single issue groups, or at least groups with top-heavy hierarchies of issue value, that still require a minimum, weighted agreement to enter.

Leftists hate hierarchy. They hate leaders.

>A strong case can be made, though, that the combination of nationalism and socialism is politically VERY strong.

"Cattle die, kinsmen die, but so long as you're living you have a use. Only the dead have no use". Paraphrased from the Havamal. Your statement is accurate.

>The only reason some of the left are helping is because many are starting to see what Friedman once said: "You can have a welfare state or open borders, but you cannot have both..."

Bingo. It should be said that in Denmark if you take social assistance and never give back you are shunned by your family. I have a cousin who never worked a day in his life until he was forced to take a job by the state. He kept on getting various trade tickets and not working. Danes hate these kinds of people. They have ways of making them "have a use" whether they like it or not.

>But they also own lots of guns, think welfare is too generous, and think gays should shut up already.

That's a good example of North American nationalist left.

Blogger xevious2030 June 05, 2019 1:30 PM  

Funny thing about tides. Your dumb ass has been invading Germany and other nations in Europe, going on for 30 years now (+ centuries). And you don’t stop.

“’It’s Not Constantinople, It’s Istanbul; It’s Islam-bul’ Turkey’s Erdogan Says”
https://eu.greekreporter.com/2019/06/03/its-not-constantinople-its-istanbul-its-islam-bul-turkeys-erdogan-says/?fbclid=IwAR0rcLhI09ryYCo5shcs5rg_pztdRrESfctzuHaONVHvgfveIW0IvtyDLA8

Blogger Iron Spartan June 05, 2019 1:51 PM  

As much as America likes to call itself a leader, it left wing follows Europe about a year or two behind. If Europe starts swinging toward nationalism, rank and file white democrats will as well.

Black and brown are natural enemies. The southwest and California are going to get far more dangerous in the coming years.

Blogger Lance E June 05, 2019 3:03 PM  

As far as I can tell, the only left-wing nationalists in America are the Swastika Panties crew. An alliance with them would be political suicide.

Blogger lowercaseb June 05, 2019 3:51 PM  

Zaklog the Great wrote:an alliance with left-wing nationalists is the best way to save a nation from destruction by invasion

Are there left wing nationalists in the U.S.?


No...I just realized that with a creeping horror that they were eliminated DECADES ago in the 80s/Early 90s. They couldn't be that prescient, could they?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 05, 2019 4:20 PM  

sammibandit wrote:Leftists hate hierarchy. They hate leaders.
No, they hate admitting they are nothing more than slavish followers. That's a very big difference.

Blogger Hammerli 280 June 05, 2019 4:46 PM  

@35: If anything, I think a case could be made that the left-wing nationalists are Trump's base.

Blogger sammibandit June 05, 2019 5:01 PM  

Looks like SocDems are set to win.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thelocal.dk/20190605/live-denmark-awaits-results-of-general-election/amp

Blogger sammibandit June 05, 2019 5:01 PM  

No, they hate admitting they are nothing more than slavish followers. That's a very big difference.

Accurate in theory and practice. Good call.

Blogger sammibandit June 05, 2019 7:31 PM  

Btw, I'll update y'all on how the election results were received by Danes abroad in my congregation when we meet on Sunday to support the flag and Pentecost. More than a few are already Hard Line party supporters.

Blogger damaris.tighe June 05, 2019 7:48 PM  

"Right" and "Left" are still relevant to articulate the ongoing collapse of the centre.

Blogger damaris.tighe June 05, 2019 7:56 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger JD June 05, 2019 8:12 PM  

Things will really get interesting if a left-wing nationalist movement begins to rise. Nobody piles up the bodies like the Left.

Blogger Roman Daoist June 06, 2019 4:13 AM  

Thusly the assertion that 'Right and Left are now irrelevant' may be dependant on a moderate, polite left. (Otherwise btw how could the US be 'A million times worse?')

No. You completely missed the point. The US is much worse because its demographic situation is far more dire.


Yes but how did the US demographic situation _become_ far more dire? Because of an uncomprimising left? There may be degrees is all, and proportional consequences.

Blogger sammibandit June 06, 2019 2:02 PM  

Things will really get interesting if a left-wing nationalist movement begins to rise. Nobody piles up the bodies like the Left.

Arguably the point in Denmark. Only the dead have no use. And the living have a use whether they like it or not. They're forcing integration of the migrants or forcing them to leave. Nothing in between. The latter is preferred through increasingly uncomfortable legislation designed to scapegoat migrants like the gold tax and forcing women to learn Danish if they take child welfare monies. Danes have no problem embarrassing losers.

It's not so much communism that drives this, but rather community. You will probably start to see stories of Danes treating muslims poorly soon, but rest assured the Danes are just treating them with earned scorn and contempt. You absolutely have to be able to count on your countrymen to keep up hygge/gemütlichkeit/hygeine. Migrants have no hygiene.

Communism, which came as socialism to Denmark was abandoned in the 90s before or after a massive bank bail-in. Never ever let your country set up Soviet style banking. They just take money from your accounts instead of taxing income.

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