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Monday, July 01, 2019

An alternative explanation

Neon Revolt is diving very deep into the heart of all NASA-related conspiracies, and in doing so, offers an alternative explanation for the bizarre behavior of the Apollo astronauts after they returned from what may or may not have been the Moon landings.
A Moon base, Luna, was photographed by the Lunar Orbiter and filmed by the Apollo astronauts. Domes, spires, tall round structures which look like silos, huge T-shaped mining vehicles that left stitchlike tracks in the lunar surface, and extremely large as well as small alien craft appear in the official NASA photographs. It is a joint United States and Soviet base: The space program is a farce and an unbelievable waste of money. Alternative 3 is a reality. It is not science fiction.

The Apollo astronauts were severely shaken by this experience, and their lives and subsequent statements reflect the depth of the revelation and the effect of the muzzle order which followed. They were ordered to remain silent or suffer the extreme penalty, death, which was termed an “expediency…”
I'm more than a bit dubious myself, as one would think that the powerful telescopes that are now in private hands would have noticed these structures and such by now. But if nothing else, it should serve as the basis for some interesting science fiction works.

One of the fascinating things about these sort of revelations is the way in which they often make for much more interesting stories than the sort of science fiction published for entertainment. Anyhow, if I had to guess, I would bet that these alien revelations are fictional, much like global warming, in order to push global government as the logical solution to the faux emergency. If the answer is evil and illegitimate, the question usually involves an amount of deception.

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92 Comments:

Blogger basementhomebrewer July 01, 2019 7:49 AM  

There were multiple works in the the early 20th century that suggested a faked alien invasion as a path to one world government. Flash forward to today, the globalists are on their back foot and suddenly government sources are releasing UFO footage on a regular basis and the number of news stories and internet rumors about aliens has picked up dramatically. Is it really that hard to connect those dots?

Blogger MATT July 01, 2019 7:56 AM  

The Watchmen comic brought the world together when Ozymandias destroyed cities with fake gigantic alien squid-like bodies.

Blogger Ingot9455 July 01, 2019 7:56 AM  

Ronald Reagan famously started the Reykjavik summit by asking Gorbachev if they could work together in the case of alien invasion.
He spluttered and couldn't answer the question.

Blogger James Jameson July 01, 2019 7:57 AM  

TFW when living in 1Q84

Blogger Guy Incognito July 01, 2019 7:58 AM  

I listen to podcasts at work, and recently listened to the Joe Rogan/Bob Lazar interview.

I was intrigued enough to skip through the Netflix UFO movie Bob was plugging.

One of the scenes explained how Bob had taken and passed four polygraphs, and showed footage from one of them.
Bob was wearing a CIA t-shirt in the footage.

I laughed, screen capped the image, and turned off Netflix.

A t-shirt doesn't have to mean anything, but it's an indication that Bob could be a troll, or pushing a misinformation narrative.

I think it was an Easter egg.

Blogger Rocklea Marina July 01, 2019 8:15 AM  

And people thought Stargate was just a TV show. TPTB wanted to document and hide it in plain sight. That's why you can't get to Antarctica you know....

Blogger Lushtree July 01, 2019 8:16 AM  

If nothing else 'joint U.S. and Soviet moon base'is a lot more fun to believe than 'the moon missions were faked'.

Seems extremely unlikely, but a lot of fun.

Blogger FrankNorman July 01, 2019 8:19 AM  

For there to be a joint American-Soviet moonbase of the scale implied, there would have to be loads of people who were involved in building it, and keeping quiet about this.

So why do a staged Apollo Programme at all then? And especially, why do it with people who weren't already "in" on the real deal?

And as for "unbelievable waste of money"... if they could build a small town on the moon, the Saturn rockets would be small change.

Blogger Sillon July 01, 2019 8:25 AM  

What I always think when UFO news come in the MSM:

behind you!, look a monkey with three heads.

We have no means to know what is true or not with the UFO info, all we objectively know is that it can be used both as a massive distraction grenade and as a nuclear bomb to discredit people.

Blogger McChuck July 01, 2019 8:25 AM  

"The moon landing was a hoax, because we didn't have the technology. And when the first astronauts got to the moon to film the fake landing, they were shocked to see the enormous existing joint Soviet-American bases that had been established decades prior."

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 01, 2019 8:35 AM  

This is the story Richard Hoagland used to tell on the Art Bell Coast to Coast radio show.

Blogger Capital6 July 01, 2019 8:40 AM  

The moon's orbit is locked in such a way that it does not rotate and the same side always faces Earth.

Put the colony on the dark side and no Earth-based telescopes should be able to see it.

Plausible that the astronauts could see the colony's lights on the dark side and discern the spires and other structures as their craft orbited the moon.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 01, 2019 8:49 AM  

Lushtree wrote:If nothing else 'joint U.S. and Soviet moon base'is a lot more fun to believe than 'the moon missions were faked'.

The Apollo missions were faked at the secret moon base.

Blogger Lazarus July 01, 2019 8:51 AM  

Rocklea Marina wrote:And people thought Stargate was just a TV show. TPTB wanted to document and hide it in plain sight. That's why you can't get to Antarctica you know....

search "Antarctic Tours". Expensive, but available. Camping, kayaking, mountaineering, cross-country skiing, snowshoeing. You can even charter an aircraft to fly over it.

Commercial flights don't go because they always have to be within 1hr of an airport in case of the need for an emergency landing.

Blogger Ken Prescott July 01, 2019 8:56 AM  

My take on the bizarre behavior:

You are the tip of the spear of the greatest human adventure in history.

And you get back home, and verily, no one gaveth an airborne fornication at a rolling fried pastry, because The Media told them this tremendous adventure was . . . Boring.

And they cancel the remaining flights. And humans never go beyond 400 miles from Earth, and we don't fly a single human being in orbit for six damn years.

All because it went from National Priority Number One to "Who cares" in less than four years.

I helped win the Cold War. I came home just as it was wrapping up.

And everyone wanted to pretend it had never happened.

It's called "alienation."

Blogger VD July 01, 2019 9:02 AM  

My take on the bizarre behavior

That's total nonsense. They are talking about the bizarre behavior of the astronauts in their press conferences immediately after the missions.

Blogger Nostromo July 01, 2019 9:10 AM  

The dark side of the moon gets lit too. We just don't see it. Astronauts orbiting the moon would. So they wouldn't need just artificial light to see artificial structures.

Blogger Skyler the Weird July 01, 2019 9:12 AM  

It's Nazis on the moon. See Iron Sky.

Blogger Skyler the Weird July 01, 2019 9:15 AM  

The MSM and Civil Rights crowd in the Sixties considered the Space Program to be a Moondoogle that was taking money away from Welfare Programs of the Great Society and wanted it cut back or limited to launching weather and communications satellites.

They won.

Blogger Cloudbuster July 01, 2019 9:15 AM  

It was decided BY THE ELITE that since the population must be reduced and controlled, it would be in the best interest of the human race to rid ourselves of the undesirable elements of our society. Specific targeted populations included BLACKS, HISPANICS, and HOMOSEXUALS.

Well, they failed spectacularly at that!

Blogger Brett baker July 01, 2019 9:15 AM  

Maybe they got a few more rads than they thought they would? Or someone spiked the celebration drinks.

Blogger Goodnight July 01, 2019 9:26 AM  

Reminds me of the Mitchell and Webb sketch where the government was going to fake the moon landing with actors and Kubrick, but decided to do it on the moon because filming on location is more realistic.

Blogger Rocklea Marina July 01, 2019 9:34 AM  

search "Antarctic Tours". Expensive, but available. Camping, kayaking, mountaineering, cross-country skiing, snowshoeing. You can even charter an aircraft to fly over it.

Pfft, next you'll be telling me Richard Dean Anderson is just an actor.

Blogger pyrrhus July 01, 2019 9:43 AM  

Russian photos of the far side of the moon show all kinds of apparent structures, while US photos have been censored, but the impression was that these were built by alien races...

Blogger Stilicho July 01, 2019 9:48 AM  

Interestingly enough I have seen a ufo. It was large slow low flying silent triangular (with rounded corners) and had multi colored lights around perimeter (not a lot but more colors and different locations than standard nav lights). It generally resembled what I later learned some had described as the Aurora aircraft. Definitely wasn't Sr 71 or any of the currently known stealth aircraft (and this was well before the revelation of those during first gulf war).

There is so much govt hides and actively lies about. Only sure bet is that official narrative is false.

As for moon landing, if faked, why didn't soviets disprove it? They had tech and incentive to do so. Actual story may be stranger than fake landing narrative. Btw how much of the fuel used by Saturn 5 would be needed to move that mass 250k miles and then to establish return orbit?

Blogger Seeingsights July 01, 2019 9:49 AM  

I agree with this claim: research is being done which the public knows almost nothing. I just read a book by Joe Farrell about the Philadelphia Experiment and The Bell in Germany. Farrell doesn't go into outlandish stuff such as time travel and Nazi UFOs. His thesis: theories unifying gravity and electromagnetism were developed in the '20s, an engineer named Kron used the theories to explain phenomenon with electrical devices. The Bell project and the Philadelphia experiment was research into these theories, to create force fields and anti gravity.
Farrell came upon reports that in 1946 US forces made a raid in Czechoslovakia--after World War II (!)--and obtained 12,000 documents. My conjecture is that those docs was scientific research. The US knew where to get them from information provided by Project Paperclip scientists.

Blogger 1100 July 01, 2019 9:50 AM  

I have worked with optics and telescopes for decades and spend many nights looking through amateur telescopes including several that I have made. Here are some thoughts about seeing small details on the moon.

Hubble's 94.5-inch mirror has a resolution of 0.024″ (seconds of arc) in ultraviolet light, which translates to 141 feet (43 meters) at the Moon's distance. In visible light, the resolution is 0.05″, or closer to 300 feet.

An amateur telescope on the Earth would have much lower resolution because it has to look through the shimmering atmosphere. Amateur telescopes are also smaller than the Hubble Space Telescope so these cannot see such small details.

Good resolution through the Earth's atmosphere is considered to be 0.25". This means an object would have to be about 3000 feet to be detected by an amateur on the Earth using visible light. Most ultra-violet light is blocked by the atmosphere so it is not very easy for amateurs to work with.

Smaller objects could be detected when the object casts a long shadow because these stand out distinctly.

Better resolution from the earth would need a large telescope with adaptive optics to reduce the distortion caused by the atmosphere. There may be opportunities for amateurs to use telescopes like that to see smaller details. But this high tech possibility is not very common to most amateur telescopes.

Blogger VD July 01, 2019 9:52 AM  

As for moon landing, if faked, why didn't soviets disprove it?

Because the threat of being able to disprove it at any time was more valuable.

Blogger Dave Dave July 01, 2019 10:07 AM  

I find it more fun to ignore anything space related entirely. An interesting idea is that they never landed on the moon because to Earth is much bigger than imagined, and they couldn't get out of orbit. Another one is that they did land on the moon, but the radiation fried their brains, hence Buzz being an alcoholic crazy man and Armstrong acting like he was MKUltra'd.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 01, 2019 10:11 AM  

1100 wrote:Good resolution through the Earth's atmosphere is considered to be 0.25". This means an object would have to be about 3000 feet to be detected by an amateur on the Earth using visible light.

A 300 foot tower could easily throw a 3,000 foot shadow near sunset.

Blogger binks webelf July 01, 2019 10:14 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Jez July 01, 2019 10:21 AM  

How would they credibly disprove a claimed event 330,000 kilometers away ten, twenty, fifty, one hundred years after the fact?

Blogger Legacy16 July 01, 2019 10:39 AM  

Any thinking person can see we did not go to the moon at all. Recent evidence is pointing that direction as well - never mind the shadows in the pictures, and the strange behavior of the astronauts.

Blogger MJ Meyers July 01, 2019 10:43 AM  

Perhaps NASA's leaking of this stuff is a psy-op in case the public becomes largely aware the photographic and video evidence of its success was faked, which it 100% beyond a reasonable doubt was. https://www.aulis.com/investigation.htm

I've noticed four stages of "moon landing" belief:

1.) IFL Science, roflcopters! Only retards think we didn't go. My Fourth Grade history book said we went. TV said so too.
2.) Look, only idiots believe this nonsense that we didn't go. All your points have been "debunked." The "Myth Busters" proved it and we can bounce a laser beam off the moon that proves we went.
3.) Okay. Maybe you've highlighted some anomalies. But we must've gone. If we didn't, the Russians would've told us. Also, a memo must've gone out to all 400,000 plus contractors detailing the scheme. How come nobody blew the whistle?
4.) Okay. The photographic and video records are both provably falsified in a hundred different ways. But we could have faked the records but also went anyway.

When people get to stage 4 and desperately want to believe we still went, they go along this fantasy that we went but had to fake the photographic and video record, because what they found would be too alarming to the American public if they knew.

This notion of an alien base on the far side of the moon (i.e. the moon is always facing side one from our perspective and turns with the Earth) fuels that fantasy.

The CIA doesn't care WHY you believe we went to the moon or under what circumstances. It's only important THAT you believe.

I take the Occum's Razor approach. The evidence of the "moon landing" was faked, provably and laughably so. Therefore, we didn't go even though we have an alternative explanation of faking the record but going anyway.

Blogger Tino July 01, 2019 10:48 AM  

I've met Buzz Aldrin. At that time I was unaware of the post-Mission interview where they looked dejected or I would have asked directly.

Nonetheless, Buzz was chatty but still conscious of his security oath. An associate asked Buzz directly about aliens. He considered the question, and answered with a question -- Do you think that we went all that way just to get some rocks?. YMMV will vary on that answer.

You also might remember that Buzz traveled a few years ago to Antarctica and promptly had a heart attack or severe angina. It was written off that it was an effect of Antarctic cold. As a doctor, let me tell you that Buzz was in tip-top shape when we met. The persistent rumor is Buzz was called in to verify that some structure found in the ice matched something seen on the Apollo mission.

Due to a set of crazy circumstances I came into contact with some formerly well-placed scientists, now retired. I inquired of the 1965 kerfuffle about dark-side of the Moon bases. They confirmed that indeed structure(s) had been detected. Folks had been called from far and wide to urgently travel to DC for classified briefings only to be stopped just before getting on planes, and then all parties instructed never to talk about the matter again. As near as I can tell, that prohibition, while never rescinded, lasted until about 1977 when George Leonard managed to access the original negatives from various dark-side fly-bys.

The Russians have published at least one picture of a multi-mile high structure in an edge shot, ie the structure is coming up off the surface of the Moon against a black sky. It ain't a mountain... I firmly believe that fear of hitting a previously undetected structure near the Apollo landing site is why Buzz turned on the lateral radar on descent.

Lastly a retired Colonel I crossed paths with upon hearing that I had an interest in the Moon landings gave a story which I believe. He said that as a young boy the family was having a big BBQ. A Moonshot was in progress and the Col. to be expressed to his father how great it was were going to the Moon and how sad that there was no life there. The father said, I don't know Son -- it's a big Universe. But talk to "Uncle" Donny ("Uncle" Donny was just a friend of the the family). He will tell about the alien base on the dark side of the Moon. It turns out that "Uncle" Donny is Donald Rumsfeld.

Make what you will of this.


Blogger Damelon Brinn July 01, 2019 11:03 AM  

As for moon landing, if faked, why didn't soviets disprove it?

How? The moon is actually pretty big and it all pretty much looks the same. Even if they went there and took pictures of the claimed NASA landing spots, NASA could just say they picked the wrong spot. Or that they faked it. The USSR literally airbrushed people out of historical photos, after all. They could airbrush out a flag.

The Soviets could have explained *why* we/they couldn't go, or pointed out things like how amazingly lucky it was that six launches from an untested foreign surface went off without a hitch, but Americans of the time would have laughed that off as sour grapes.

Blogger Beardy Bear July 01, 2019 11:06 AM  

There is a level on command and conquer 2 when Yuri, traitor to the soviets, establishes a base on the dark side of the moon, where telescopes from the surface cannot see.

Interesting parallels.

Blogger SIE July 01, 2019 11:09 AM  

I read "Incident at Devil's Den" a few weeks ago and that was one of the guys claims, to have witnessed *extensive* bases and mining, but that it was on the far side of the moon.

Blogger Beardy Bear July 01, 2019 11:14 AM  

Ah aurora. I have to wonder if some of the money being dumped into the f35 is actually building aurora aircraft. They are far superior, if the accounts are true. My uncle works in Utah's west desert and claims he has seen these craft do amazing things.

Blogger sykes.1 July 01, 2019 11:28 AM  

Neon Revolt has always been sorta breathless, but now he has gone completely off the rails. The Moon landings happened. They were the peak achievement of American civilization, and America has gone steadily downhill since.

Blogger Robert Pinkerton July 01, 2019 11:31 AM  

I believe that we indeed went to the Moon, where we were told by hostile ETs to stay out of space on pain of dire consequences.

Blogger Noah B. July 01, 2019 12:23 PM  

It's not nearly as fun as some of the other theories, but the astronauts' strange behavior could have been a result of brain damage arising from cosmic ray exposure. Perhaps the effects are much worse than NASA acknowledged and adequate shielding can't be provided without making the space vessels unacceptably massive. That would explain why we haven't gone back to the moon.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-brief/2015/05/01/mars-astronauts-cosmic-rays/

Blogger VD July 01, 2019 12:30 PM  

Neon Revolt has always been sorta breathless, but now he has gone completely off the rails. The Moon landings happened. They were the peak achievement of American civilization, and America has gone steadily downhill since.

And how dare you go after Crowder, Big Bear? How dare you? I'd go to war for Shapiro! Hoodiddly-daddle!

Blogger Fargoth July 01, 2019 12:31 PM  

Here's a fun thought...are we hybrids already? Some of us who were dumb and vain enough to spit in the tube and get the 23andme were assigned LARGE fractions of unspecified "broadly northwestern DNA". Alien DNA? Atlantian DNA? The little people?

We aren't in Kansas anymore, folks

Blogger Fargoth July 01, 2019 12:36 PM  

To be fair, this could also result from colonial swamp yankee hybridizing, but still someone riddle me this: Why can't the British/Egyptian and Nordic Y chromosomes be traced to a common ancestor? R1b being the celtic and I being the nordic. And why is the semitic/caananite haplogroup J closer related to the nordic I? Someone help me out with this or just give me the thorazine already.

Blogger Robert What? July 01, 2019 1:02 PM  

I really can't keep up with all the Moon landing conspiracies. Are the same people who said we didn't go to the moon now saying the astronauts saw alien structures on the Moon when the presumably didn't go to the Moon? My head hurts.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 01, 2019 1:18 PM  

Robert What? wrote:Are the same people who said we didn't go to the moon now saying the astronauts saw alien structures on the Moon when the presumably didn't go to the Moon?
Stop that analytical thinking, dammit. That's White privilege,

Blogger The Lab Manager July 01, 2019 1:31 PM  

I've wondered about the moon landing myself over the years. Here is an article from Sciencemag about the Apollo astronauts and their above average rate of mortality from heart disease. Not sure what the moon landing hoax theorist would say.


"Houston, we have a heart problem. Apollo lunar astronauts are four to five times more likely to die from cardiovascular disease than astronauts who never left Earth’s orbit or who never flew at all, according to a study published in Scientific Reports today that considered about 100 astronauts, seven of them Apollo. When the Apollo crew members, pictured above performing prelaunch tests on Earth, ventured to the moon between 1968 and 1972, they exited a magnetic shield around Earth called the magnetosphere, which protects us from cosmic radiation. A team of researchers believed those rays, which come from outside our solar system, may have caused the Apollo astronauts’ circulatory systems to function incorrectly. To test this, they put mice in tiny harnesses to simulate weightlessness and bombarded them with the same type of cosmic radiation that the Apollo astronauts received. What happened in the mice confirmed the researcher’s fears: Although weightlessness had no apparent effect on the rodents, the radiation impaired enzymes that control blood vessels’ ability to relax. As a result, the vessels had a tendency to stay small and tight, which made it harder for blood to flow. In humans, this could lead to high blood pressure and, in some cases, heart disease. The findings, the authors say, highlight the dangers for future astronauts as they explore Mars and beyond. "

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 01, 2019 1:37 PM  

Robert Pinkerton wrote:I believe that we indeed went to the Moon, where we were told by hostile ETs to stay out of space on pain of dire consequences.

Hostile ETs, who resolutely refuse to invade, dashing the globohomo hopes of uniting humankind against them. Doesn't sound so hostile to me.

Maybe the ETs told them to go home and clean out the poz. Perelandra wasn't fiction!

Blogger OneWingedShark July 01, 2019 1:49 PM  

The Lab Manager wrote:Not sure what the moon landing hoax theorist would say.
"CIA heart-attack gun."

Blogger JG July 01, 2019 1:53 PM  

As others have stated, Earth based telescopes don't have the resolving capability to locate lunar lander sized objects on the moon. The Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter does have this resolving capability. Numerous photos of the moon landing areas are available, and they have also spotted the point where the Israeli lander crashed earlier this year.

No alien facilities reported, alas.

Blogger Matrick July 01, 2019 1:55 PM  

Very interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing.

Blogger Dave July 01, 2019 1:58 PM  

And how dare you go after Crowder, Big Bear? How dare you? I'd go to war for Shapiro! Hoodiddly-daddle!

How revolting!


Vox, if you hadn't heard, Neon was geeked about his mention in Piling up the Skulls Darkstream. Serious question: is there or will there be any consideration for SG 2.0 to interface with the "modified Mastodon framework" (believed to be a fork of Fediverse) or has that ship sailed? Also, his comments aren't making it onto VP?


His post from Gab

Big shout-out from @voxday today!

Gad dangit I wish that guy were back on gab. Idk what his original contention was, and I have absolutely no right to tell him what to do, but at the very least, he should consider spinning up his own federated "gab" server after the July 4th switch to the modified Mastodon framework, just so he and his peeps can join the Fediverse on their own terms. Especially because I've tried to comment on his site before, but my comments seem to get lost in the void somewhere and are never seen or heard from again.

Anyway, very interesting stuff with Castalia House. Glad to hear it. Will be keeping it in mind moving forward...


[link to Darkstream] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uWFtmpgMU0

https://gab.com/NeonRevolt/posts/UzVhelZqbG9TdmJRRmxFbDcyRzFQdz09

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 01, 2019 2:01 PM  

JG wrote:Numerous photos of the moon landing areas are available
They will tell you that these images are "obviously" faked. You can't argue a man out of a position he didn't arrive at by reason.

Blogger Dave July 01, 2019 2:02 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Robert What? wrote:Are the same people who said we didn't go to the moon now saying the astronauts saw alien structures on the Moon when the presumably didn't go to the Moon?

Stop that analytical thinking, dammit. That's White privilege,



Where has Neon ever denied the moon landing?

Blogger Matrick July 01, 2019 2:03 PM  

A tangent, but it has always angered me that the government will spend so much money on technology and discoveries, but keep it secret from the people who pay for it. There isn't even the real excuse of a threat like there might have been during the cold War.

Blogger Tino July 01, 2019 2:03 PM  

@51 No government that imaged or accessed the dark side of the Moon will admit anything they may have seen there. There's no question that all Moon images by all major powers are tampered with prior to release. The consequences of Disclosure would upend too many rice bowls of the Elite.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 01, 2019 2:11 PM  

Tino wrote:There's no question that all Moon images by all major powers are tampered with prior to release.
This is a bald assertion without support in any form. It is an assumption on your part, and you treat it as unquestionably true.
Question your premises from time to time. It will keep you from saying stupid things like this.

Blogger Crew July 01, 2019 2:17 PM  

Raymond Weil's Earth Fall Invasion was based around the notion that a real alien ship landed at Roswell and ...

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 01, 2019 2:19 PM  

https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu/layers?extent=-90,-22.7184566,90,49.1088161&proj=7&layers=NrBsFYBoAYchGSJQBYF3gXSaAHOxLTbYAZmngE45ZERzpR1biTx4pb1755TmErTEA

Blogger Angantyr July 01, 2019 2:28 PM  

"It's Nazis on the moon. See Iron Sky."

Moon Nazis!!! I loved that movie!

Blogger Tino July 01, 2019 2:37 PM  

Whiplash I'm not here to debate you. I merely proffered some knowledge acquired a few years back when I was in a unique situation. I have been behind the curtain several times and to the extent I can talk about some matters I do. Given sufficient time I will be proven right about some of my more exotic comments. I need only wait and say "I told you so".

In regard to this topic you are clearly unaware of the multiple photo techs that are on record having airbrushed or digitally edited photos of all kinds for NASA. The most recent. In regards to the root matter of Moon structures, one story is the first tech to spill the beans on Moon structures -- Air Force Whistleblower Never mind George Leonard and co.

Try leaving attack mode behind, you'll be happier.

Blogger Pope Cleophus I July 01, 2019 2:42 PM  

Not entirely true. ETOPS Extended Twin engine OperationS gives 2 hours over open water. Continental airlines had a 3 hour exception for their Guam route. I have seen special commercial flights going around the world via both poles. Antarctica is a land mass and not open water.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 01, 2019 2:43 PM  

"I take the Occum's Razor approach. The evidence of the "moon landing" was faked, provably and laughably so. Therefore, we didn't go even though we have an alternative explanation of faking the record but going anyway."

I take the Ockham's razor approach that you personally are observably disingenuous at least twice in that post, so I really don't give a rat's ass to try to track down what else you lied about or not and will just discard your entire comment and read someone else's instead, since it's probably better quality.

I don't know whether we went or not. Both possibilities are interesting. I have no stake in either. From the information I've seen, I'd be inclined to believe that we went but found or saw something "unacceptable".

A great many things are nearly impossible to "prove" or "disprove", but you are not honest, so I'll certainly ignore you in favor of information that I can't sort either way yet.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 01, 2019 2:53 PM  

Tino wrote:I merely proffered some knowledge acquired a few years back when I was in a unique situation. I have been behind the curtain several times and to the extent I can talk about some matters I do.
Was this when you were in Special Forces, or was it when you volunteered for the clandestine CIA Sapce Force?

I merely pointed out that every single thing you said, despite it's confidence, is nothing but a bald assertion supported neither by common experience nor argumentation nor evidence. I stopped taking the word of anonymous internet commenters a few decades ago.

Finally, this isn't attack mode. You haven't seen attack mode yet. That you think it's an attack is revealing.

Blogger fredulent July 01, 2019 2:57 PM  

Then there is this TV documentary from 1977 called Alternative 3 which was presented on television at the time as presumably factual until it was broadcast.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 01, 2019 2:58 PM  

"Man can never fly." "Man already flies with the angels." ~Fatalists versus mystics, before any form of aeronautics.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 01, 2019 3:02 PM  

Let us be clear. If there are "aliens", the same entities have been properly referred to as angels and demons in the past.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 01, 2019 3:06 PM  

@Azure
And sprites, brownies, faeries, tomten, leprechauns, etc etc.

Blogger Wazoo July 01, 2019 3:10 PM  

I recently likstened to Joe Rogan's interview with Bob Lazar, a scientist who claims that he worked on alien equipment at Area 51. His story sounds plausible but I can't tell if he's a con-man or not.

Blogger Jez July 01, 2019 9:39 PM  

MJ Meyers:

"I've noticed four stages of "moon landing" belief:"

Cute. I've isolated four types of moon hoaxers:

1. The liars and con artists; best exemplified by certain film makers and youtubers

2. The bat-solid waste matter-crazy; includes a smaller number of youtubers, and a lot of online commenters

3. The 'too lazy and/or too stupid to understand the physics and engineering underpinning the whole topic.

4. The innocently ignorant who don't really care about the topic and never gave it any thought until examples of the first 3 groups influenced them first.

There's plenty of overlap between them.

Which ones are you?

Blogger Terrific July 01, 2019 10:12 PM  

Wow! I read "Alternative Three" WAAAAAAAYYYYY back in 1979! It was quite a read!

Because of the respect for books every child who learns to love to read is raised with I wanted to respect the genre the book was classified under and take its allegations seriously. So I did.

But then, I turned on my brain.

I quickly realized my entire "reality" about this subject, which until buying this book was zero, was found in and created only by what was in the pages of this book. The newspaper articles allegedly published, the alleged legal actions taken by the English government to suppress the book's publication, the alleged interview with an Apollo 17 astronaut who later committed suicide (allegedly), I was aware of all of it ONY through the book and nowhere else! The internet didn't exist. My only source of outside information was the library. But to use that resource meant I'd have to drive to the library and then look in Readers Guide to Periodic Literature (if I'm remembering it correctly), hoping to find anything at all published. The only thing I thought I might find easily was the name of the Apollo 17 astronaut and how he died. If he'd committed suicide that would be kind of eerie but certainly not proof.

In the end I judged the book to be a great fiction read because it claimed to be true, but it clearly wasn't.

Or did that Apollo astronaut commit suicide? I can check easily now...

Blogger Dirk Manly July 01, 2019 11:21 PM  

@15

"My take on the bizarre behavior:

You are the tip of the spear of the greatest human adventure in history.

And you get back home, and verily, no one gaveth an airborne fornication at a rolling fried pastry, because The Media told them this tremendous adventure was . . . Boring."

Obviously, you weren't alive in the late 1960's... and why don't you try WATCHING THE PRESS CONFERENCE WITH THE APOLLO 11 CREW, LESS THAN A WEEK AFTER THE SPLASHDOWN.

This was no 4-years later -- this was during the height of the hoopla.

Blogger fredulent July 01, 2019 11:27 PM  

I recommend checking out the last comment on the YouTube link I gave above. A link is given there to a letter by the author. He says it was meant as a hoax but then he realized he may have touched on something.

Blogger Dirk Manly July 01, 2019 11:29 PM  

@30

"A 300 foot tower could easily throw a 3,000 foot shadow near sunset."

That's in only one dimension. Unless the tower is 3000 feet across, then it's shadow will be invisible to an optical device having 3000 foot resolution at observation distance.

When determining if something can be seen or not, the important resolution isn't the large (longest) dimension, it's the small (shortest) dimension which determines whether something is visible or not.

Blogger The Pitchfork Rebel July 01, 2019 11:36 PM  

@20

"Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don’t want to have too many of."

Ruth Bader Ginsberg 2009

Blogger fredulent July 02, 2019 1:58 AM  

Mistake, it's a she, Leslie.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 02, 2019 3:08 AM  

Well pointed, Dirk.

Blogger xevious2030 July 02, 2019 8:53 AM  

Haven't read A Brave New World yet, so nothing there. But with the Q Anon posts, not alone, vastness of space. Those point to something here, not from afar. Building deep underground, reverse engineering, considering ice ages scrubbing the surface periodically, Alternative 1 of removing heat from the atmosphere to combat the others.

No docs on the rest of mine, just stuff, things mulled, might make good fiction. Junk DNA as the repository for several old AI's, purity as a matter of incremental generational reintegration, psychopaths as the AI code generationally  more and more replacing biological code, in recombinant individuals. A floating black robotic arm in a pit, in Antarctica, in stasis, with the builtin tech to restore the rest of the body, house AI, wage hellatious war. Resembling the droid app logo and the big robot from The Black Hole. Programed as a MAD device to wipe out all humans as a safeguard against the violation of an ancient truce/reset between humans and AI. The two temporarily combined genetically to prevent either from exterminating the other after the surface, and most history, we're being/had been been scrubbed. Several bad mostly recombinant out of the group of recombinant, trying to seize control of the reset and break the treaty, controlling the recombination of the good variety, in terms of purity level, to have usefulness as a council of 12, but not be fully cognizant. Might be good fiction, might not, depending on pen to paper, and the mind to hand.

Blogger xevious2030 July 02, 2019 9:51 AM  

"My uncle works in Utah's west desert and claims he has seen these craft do amazing things."

Don't know if the craft are manned or not. For high G turns though, there is a difference between a stationary seat, and a seat that is able to adjust the positioning/rotate such that blood is not forced into the legs. This allows for the G's of the craft to go well above the usual fanfare without the passenger blacking out. But everyone thinks of fixed/standard position seats.

Blogger PJW Gent July 02, 2019 12:43 PM  

Fargoth wrote:Here's a fun thought...are we hybrids already? Some of us who were dumb and vain enough to spit in the tube and get the 23andme were assigned LARGE fractions of unspecified "broadly northwestern DNA". Alien DNA? Atlantian DNA? The little people?

We aren't in Kansas anymore, folks

It turns out I have a lot of Neanderthal DNA and none of that broadly northwestern DNA. I guess I missed out on the aliens but got some of the good guy stuff.

Blogger Irish Energy July 02, 2019 3:27 PM  

[b]I'm more than a bit dubious myself, as one would think that the powerful telescopes that are now in private hands would have noticed these structures and such by now. [/b]

Not if the moon bases were on the dark side.

Blogger Cary Kembla July 04, 2019 2:40 AM  

It's a fun theory, but you're right - Occam's razor points to a hoax. The comparison to 'global warming' is also apt - Clowns control and can manipulate/fabricate ALL incoming primary data flows in both instances. Imagine a President in the 60s or 70s presented with fake photos, fake footage and fake audio, created using advanced special FX Hollywood Clown technology that he wasn't even aware existed at the time. Add to this a bunch of faked personal briefings by 'shook up' astronauts that SWEAR, DAMMIT! that they saw an alien moon base, and you have all the ingredients of an unfalsifiable hoax. It's not as if the President can personally go to the moon to check for himself.

Blogger Engineer-Poet July 04, 2019 4:07 PM  

@16  There is a very obvious explanation for that "bizarre" behavior.  You can see much the same thing when non-actors try to read prepared statements for the camera.  Most of them come across very stiff.

Test pilots may have massive egos, but they are non-actors.

The obvious explanation is that the NASA press flacks didn't like Armstrong's delivery so they stage-managed it to the Nth degree.  You can see Armstrong's fixed stare during the whole clip.  What was he staring at?  A prompter, with the prepared statement scrolling at a rate controlled by one of those press flacks.  He couldn't read it off any faster than they let him.

Maybe you have the experience to carry something like this off, but chances are you'd probably come across pretty un-natural too if you couldn't even read at your usual pace and cadence.

@28  Yet the Soviet Union collapsed without unveiling their "proof".  During the period of open-ness when we got all the documents about Russian spies and the USSR's own N1 moon-shot effort, it still stayed hidden.  Doesn't pass the smell test.

Blogger Engineer-Poet July 04, 2019 4:10 PM  

@25 "Btw how much of the fuel used by Saturn 5 would be needed to move that mass 250k miles and then to establish return orbit?"

You can calculate this yourself if you can properly apply the rocket equation (which is very simple but not intuitively obvious).  The only problem is digging up the numbers to put into it, and getting used to doing things "backwards".  You need the following:

1.  Vacuum-specific impulse of N2O4/Aerozine 50 fuel (used in the SM and LEM descent and ascent stages).
2.  Loaded zero-fuel mass of the LEM ascent stage plus crew, etc.
3.  Mass of lunar samples (carried only on the return trip).
4.  Zero-fuel loaded mass of the LEM descent stage.
5.  Delta-V for the descent and ascent (roughly the same).
6.  CSM zero-fuel mass.
7.  Delta-V for lunar orbit insertion and departure burns.
8.  Specific impulse of J-2 engine.
9.  Empty mass of Saturn V third stage.
10.  Delta-V for trans-lunar insertion burn.
11.  Delta-V of third-stage LEO insertion burn.
12.  Empty mass and fuel capacity of Saturn V second stage.
13.  Specific impulse and thrust of F-1 engine.
14.  Empty mass and fuel capacity of Saturn V first stage.

You have to calculate this "backwards" because the hardware and fuel for all higher stages has to be lofted by the next stage below, so it cascades downward.

Most of this is not difficult so much as tedious, though I'd have to look up the details of the orbit required to get the right approach for lunar insertion.  A lot of the fact-digging is already done; the LEM data is at https://www.infogalactic.com/info/Apollo_Lunar_Module#Specifications

If you would like to take a walk through these numbers, I can use a break from my current analysis project anyway and would be happy to host the discussion at The Ergosphere, ergosphere.blogspot.com.  Drop me an e-mail, address is in the right sidebar.

Blogger Engineer-Poet July 04, 2019 4:11 PM  

@41  Yet we launched a bunch of Voyagers, Huygens, Cassini and even a Tesla Roadster to Mars since then.

Blogger Engineer-Poet July 04, 2019 4:11 PM  

@48  Primary cosmic rays have very high LET (linear energy transfer), so might cause both a different kind and degree of tissue damage than gamma rays and muons.  It might be worth doing some animal studies with high-energy proton irradiation, if it hasn't already been done for e.g. cancer treatment.

Blogger Daniel July 04, 2019 7:07 PM  

Incredibly funny game.
Played it in the 90s first version

Blogger Daniel July 04, 2019 7:29 PM  

People detect fishy things and elaborate theories to explain them
Not that hard, try to keep up

Blogger Engineer-Poet July 06, 2019 2:32 PM  

Does it always take 2 days to get a comment approved around here?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 09, 2019 5:34 PM  

Engineer-Poet wrote:Does it always take 2 days to get a comment approved around here?
I know you probably won't see this, but:
Any comment to a post made more then 24 hours in the past, goes into a moderation queue. It will get approved approximately "whenever someone gets around to it." The mods are busy people and drunks and are all patriots, so my checking in today was the first time any comments got approved since Wednesday.
It's all very ad hoc and whenever-ish. So don't get annoyed if it takes a while. The noise:signal ratio goes asymptotic after 24 hours, and most people don't read comments on old posts anyway.

Blogger Engineer-Poet July 09, 2019 7:39 PM  

"I know you probably won't see this"

When I made specific reference in comments today?

"most people don't read comments on old posts anyway."

What I'm concerned about is that Stilicho and others who might be interested in deepening their understanding of the actual rocket-stuff probably won't see this.  I should probably repeat the offer in the current discussion.

"Any comment to a post made more then 24 hours in the past, goes into a moderation queue."

Ah.  Clarity.

"The mods are busy people and drunks and are all patriots, so my checking in today was the first time any comments got approved since Wednesday."

Musta been one HELL of a hangover if it lasted that long.  Would have loved to be at that party.

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