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Tuesday, August 06, 2019

Heating up all over

It looks increasingly as if the world wants war, despite the social mood metric of the stock market being at an all-time high.
New Delhi has declared it is revoking a decades-old constitutional provision that granted special powers to the Indian-controlled part of Kashmir. The move comes amid ongoing flare-ups between India and Pakistan over the region.

The majority-Muslim region that became part of India in the times of decolonization, and has been a point of dispute between India and Pakistan ever since, has enjoyed broad autonomy under the Indian constitution. It is the only Indian state that was allowed to have its own constitution.

All laws passed by the Indian parliament, except for those regarding defense, communications, and foreign policy, had to first be ratified by the local legislature before coming into force in Kashmir. Apart from that, only local residents could purchase land or property in the state or hold office there.

This will no longer be the case starting Monday, New Delhi has announced. A resolution to revoke Kashmir’s special status was introduced on Monday by Home Minister Amit Shah and enshrined in a decree signed by President Ram Nath Kovind, the ceremonial head of India.
Translation: The Hindu nationalists are intending to crack down hard on India's Muslims. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were large-scale population transfers in the cards. Remember, we're living at the end of one of the greatest global peacetime expansions in human history. The correction will therefore likely be of similar scale and scope.

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73 Comments:

Blogger DeepThought August 06, 2019 11:09 AM  

In the long run the Hindus will lose. China is continually embarrassing them in every skirmish(militarily/economically).

Muslims will wear them down further.

Christians are a growing threat to Hindus.

There is literally no way for Hindus to win.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 06, 2019 11:10 AM  

"Hindus R the real nationalists", speaking as a Boomer.

Blogger Harambe August 06, 2019 11:15 AM  

So which side is America going to be importing en masse?

Blogger DeepThought August 06, 2019 11:16 AM  

It is important to note than India's military defense industry just stinks. A good example is the Arjun 2 tank.

India has been trying to become self sufficient in defense but corruption and frankly, weak technical schooling is preventing them from being anything but a mass importer of weapons.

Blogger Newscaper312 August 06, 2019 11:19 AM  

I skimmed the Wikipedia article just now (oops, Infogalactic next time), and it does not jump out at me why India is so determined to hold on to the subset of the Kashmir area that is actually Muslim dominant.

You could make an argument for giving that part to Pakistan given a concentrated bunch of muslims are more trouble than they are worth, in general, plus the possibly reducing tensions between the two countries.

Is the issue where the geography makes for a more defensible border? Or natural resources? Or just the history of the area on the map predating the muslims? Its not like there was ever anything like a nominally unified India anyway, until the British.

Blogger Nostromo August 06, 2019 11:29 AM  

Because nations are noted for their philanthropy, and generosity...of a 2 year old with a favorite toy. The only country that willing ceded territory away peacefully that springs to mind is Jimmy Carter giving away the Panama Canal. And the good will such a move buys lasts until the next guy gets into office.

Blogger Dont Worry About Me August 06, 2019 11:31 AM  

As stupid as Indians are on average, at least they haven't "enlightened" themselves into the West's obsession with turning themselves into the Middle East

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother August 06, 2019 11:33 AM  

India v China is what I was expecting to read about. Will India weaken itself further by fighting with Pakistan, and make their northeast flank more penetrable by China?

Blogger DeepThought August 06, 2019 11:34 AM  

As one who has visited India multiple times for work, India is worse than the Middle East. If it were not for foreign companies, India would be struggling to get it's people out of the bronze ages. Go visit the country side to see what I mean.

India is the definition of sh*thole country.

Blogger Unknown August 06, 2019 11:38 AM  

Incompetent Cab Driver Labor Pool to become even looser.

Blogger VFM Bear August 06, 2019 11:43 AM  

Just fucking great, because this likely means Prime Minister Bobblehead will start flying in planeloads of Kashmiris to Not a Nation.

Blogger Balkan Yankee August 06, 2019 11:45 AM  

"It does not jump out at me why India is so determined to hold on to the subset of the Kashmir area that is actually Muslim dominant."

Kashmir is important to India because the headwaters of Pakistan’s major rivers originate in that region. To the point: He who controls Kashmir controls Pakistan’s water supply.

Blogger Sharrukin August 06, 2019 11:47 AM  

The biggest threat to India is internal dissension. They are a multi-ethnic state with little internal unity.

Pakistan isn't much of a threat if you discount their nukes. The Muslim population of India is huge and this is the primary threat to Hindu nationalism. If the domestic Muslim threat isn't dealt with India will collapse into warring states. Dealing with the domestic Muslim problem with mass expulsions and the accompanying massacres also runs the significant risk of an internal collapse.

They don't have a lot of good options. Sorta like the U.S. just dumber.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 06, 2019 11:49 AM  

Newscaper312 wrote:I skimmed the Wikipedia article just now (oops, Infogalactic next time), and it does not jump out at me why India is so determined to hold on to the subset of the Kashmir area that is actually Muslim dominant.
Dick waving. If you know any Hindoos you will not doubt this.
Please send bobs and vagene pics!

Blogger DonReynolds August 06, 2019 11:49 AM  

If one believes that prosperity somehow makes war unlikely...and we hear that from time to time...my thoughts immediately jump to August 1914. Yes, we could say the same thing in those days.

Europe had never been more prosperous, or more optimistic, or more free, or more healthy, or more technologically advanced. The Napoleonic wars were about as distant a memory to people at the time as World War II seems to people today. Likewise, the living memory of the Napoleonic wars had died out, just as we have seen the living memory of World War II pretty much die out in our own time. If there was a chronic worry in 1914, it was about new social movements, such as labor relations, socialism, women's rights, race relations, and the perceived decline in morality and sexual mores. There was also in 1914 the same nagging militancy by ethnic minorities, but there was prosperity and plenty of foreign trade and hard money and mobility, in so many ways. Hardly anyone had a passport because they were not necessary to travel or immigrate.

Blogger Newscaper312 August 06, 2019 11:51 AM  

Ahh. So thru what was partly an accident of history modern India got that land, and holds on for dear life for the strategic value. Is the water of particular value to the rest of India (currently being diverted?) or more just being potentially able tot (to deny ot Pakistan)?

Thanks.

Blogger OneWingedShark August 06, 2019 11:57 AM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:India v China is what I was expecting to read about. Will India weaken itself further by fighting with Pakistan, and make their northeast flank more penetrable by China?
So do I.
An India/China war would be HILARIOUS; having seen the quality of the "Smart" Indians in my field of work, and knowing about the Chinese 'tradition' of cheating I saw while in the University, I could imagine the incompetence just overflowing — it could even become the combination of Comedy and Military History.

Blogger Desdichado August 06, 2019 11:57 AM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Dick waving. If you know any Hindoos you will not doubt this.

Please send bobs and vagene pics!

I've never met a more consistently thirsty beta population of men and boys in my life. It's really quite remarkable. I know that they've been significantly watered down due to South Asian genetics, but it almost makes me embarrassed that the AIT posits that all of those R1a Indian men were once Europeans closely related to ancestors of modern Europe too.

Not that Europe has much to grag about with regards to thirsty betas.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 06, 2019 11:58 AM  

And the Hindus have a real border fence with Bangladesh and talk tough about booting what muslim migrants they can back to it.

Blogger D E K August 06, 2019 12:15 PM  

There are more muslims in India than in Pakistan. Anything that comes near a population expulsion or a real bloodshed is in the near future not imaginable, because of the automatic reaction of the western world. So things must deteriorate enough elsewhere to the point that nobody would care any longer about India. If Vox is right about his time frame regarding the deterioration of the USA in 2030, then this could become another thing happening.

Blogger xevious2030 August 06, 2019 12:18 PM  

"and make their northeast flank more penetrable by China"

A war between India and Pakistan has the potential to weaken Pakistan enough for China to punch a hole to the Arabian Sea.

Speculation. The mid latitude of the Stans between China and the Caspian Sea might ought to worry a bit about upsetting Chinese interests (say, prospects of a good relations with Russia big pipeline maybe being placed) in their territory at that point.

The US presence in Afghanistan is a sticky point for China though, in any of this.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother August 06, 2019 12:18 PM  

If Trump and Modi have already been discussing this all bets are off. Both on what India does, and what our reaction would be.

Blogger Nikolai Collushnikov August 06, 2019 12:24 PM  

Ah, a war between India and China?

The proverbial contest between the Opposable Force versus the Movable Object.

Blogger billo August 06, 2019 12:31 PM  

Not just Muslims. India is busily ramping up persecution of Christians as well. Our church is involved with some mission work there; one of the local-born pastors has been jailed multiple times already.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella August 06, 2019 12:39 PM  

Hindu Indians have made a policy of sterilizing- during the LBJ years- Indian Christians. They are also discriminated against, under the law. Christian Indians get educated by missionaries. Right now, wealthier Hindu villagers hire Christians to tutor their children. They also scramble to get into Western, Christian nations for the education.

At some point, one hopes that American churches will find connections to Indian Christian villages, then set about assisting them in building decent infrastructure- water, walls, schools, hospitals and clinics and so on. We seem to manage it for non-Christian, non- oppressed populations, world-wide.

I had to learn that there were even Christians in India from a book about the history of world-wide population control efforts.

Blogger Newscaper312 August 06, 2019 12:42 PM  

FWIW there are actually Indian Catholic priests coming to the US now.

Me, I'd rather have a few more of the old school Irish priests of my childhood circa 1970.

Blogger Pope Cleophus I August 06, 2019 12:43 PM  

Your choice of verb is distressing. The US should be exporting en masse not importing.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother August 06, 2019 12:44 PM  

Yep. Father Lonergan from The Quiet Man is my favorite Catholic priest.

Blogger tdcommenter August 06, 2019 12:45 PM  

@17 The propaganda would be interesting to see. However, the actual conflict could devolve into a slog with both sides dug in with the harsh terrain.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother August 06, 2019 12:46 PM  

I'm watching a breaking news story about hundreds of former boy scouts alleging abuse.

The twitching, convulsing patient is finally going to expire now.

Blogger Oswald August 06, 2019 12:47 PM  

I remember back in the early nineties taking a poly sci course and the professor saying that India and Pakistan represented a potential hot spot that could result in a major war where millions were killed.

The question for group is this: Has the second horseman been given his big sword and is he getting ready to ride forth?

Blogger Sam August 06, 2019 12:49 PM  

@20
It didn't stop Burma and India has nukes. Economic threats aren't going to work either- murdering the Muslims means there is now all their property, land and women to divide up and hand out to the Hindu population.

Blogger Skyler the Weird August 06, 2019 12:49 PM  

The murder of native pastors by BJP Hindu thugs is quite common in Anwar Pradesh.

Would Pakistan please drop a EMP device on Hyderabad where those tech jobs will return to the U.S.and U.K..

Blogger Lovekraft August 06, 2019 12:50 PM  

India has a caste system and there is an entire subrace of bravos who are the muscle of India - Kshatriyas (not sure if they could be labelled bravos, though).

"The Kshatriya constitutes the ruling and military elite, the warriors. Their purpose in the society is to fight as warriors during war and govern in time of peace." - Infogalactic

I think they are located in NW India, near the Kashmir border. Is there a chance to flex their muscles and reinvigorate their members? Armies can get rigid and stale without periodic escalation. This could just be kabuki but could quickly enter the fire when it involves muslims.

OT is there any connection or similarity between France's yellow vests and Hong Kong protests? If so, there should be coordination. And how about these situations tied to India's?

Blogger Aeroschmidt August 06, 2019 12:50 PM  

World War Poo? Perhaps America can sit this one out?

Blogger newguy40 August 06, 2019 12:51 PM  

One of the local men's religious orders has several parishes in Goa. We're on the left coast USA and the culture shock on the newly imported Indian priests is obvious. There NOM are reasonably "o"rthodox but their homilies are often pretty hard to understand (ESL). No complaint otherwise. I'll take one of these priests over a jesuit anytime.

Blogger Birdman August 06, 2019 1:00 PM  

I give them that

Blogger Clay August 06, 2019 1:01 PM  

I only visited one time, to New Delhi, for business. The stench was appalling. I remember the "business buildings" I saw were drenched with purple stains all over the walls. I was told that it was from spitting the usage of betel nuts.

I had an opportunity to visit again. I declined.

Blogger Birdman August 06, 2019 1:02 PM  

Damn i thought my country is kind of 'shithole'

Blogger Doktor Jeep August 06, 2019 1:06 PM  

The losing side.
Oh wait. We are the losing side.

Blogger xevious2030 August 06, 2019 1:06 PM  

This is something Trump has hopefully had conversations with Modi, Imran, and Xi about. The US could offer to drop meaningful short shelf life platforms to work against any party that did not want to keep this between India proper and Kashmir. But, who knows.

Blogger James Dixon August 06, 2019 1:07 PM  

> Translation: The Hindu nationalists are intending to crack down hard on India's Muslims.

I can't see any other reasonable interpretation. Nor will I shed a tear for the "oppressed" Muslims.

Blogger pyrrhus August 06, 2019 1:19 PM  

>Muslims will wear them down further.

Christians are a growing threat to Hindus.

There is literally no way for Hindus to win.

Wrong...Hindu culture and civilization has been around for 4000 years...They have kept the moslems in check with "indiscriminate Hindu violence against the Muslim community" when the moslems act out...Now under Modi India has gone full Nationalist, has probable thermo-nuclear weapons, a far superior army, and is buying the S-400 system...Modi may well be preparing the ground to kick all the moslems out of India...

Blogger doctrev August 06, 2019 1:25 PM  

I understand why people think Indians aren't a race purely composed of super geniuses. But they still have a state devoted to protecting their nation. That's not nothing. Meanwhile, enough Marine officers have personally betrayed the President that you can't 100% rely on the most intense and non-pozzed branch of the military defending you. Would you rather have silly Indians looking out for your race, or determined white men working against their own people?

Blogger pyrrhus August 06, 2019 1:30 PM  

India's top two castes are pretty intelligent (the rest of the country is about 80) and I know from experience that India has some good physicists, so Pakistan is totally outgunned on that front...China is not going to attack India (1962 was abortive) ever because India has serious nukes, and the Hindu Nationalists like Modi are not pacifists in any sense...

Blogger pyrrhus August 06, 2019 1:34 PM  

<I remember back in the early nineties taking a poly sci course and the professor saying that India and Pakistan represented a potential hot spot that could result in a major war where millions were killed.

India has 1.3+ billion people...Millions killed would be a trivial price for getting rid of the muslims...

Blogger DeepThought August 06, 2019 2:08 PM  

@pyrrhus India loses to everyone. Their military numbers are an accounting gimmick. China and Pakistan are now working together, sharing technology, and training together.

Good analysis of why India loses and is tied down in multiple insurgencies.

"Most worryingly, Pakistan and China have achieved military interoperability, which is the capability of their two armies to execute joint missions against a common target. Decades of mutual cooperation, technology transfer, training, equipment sales, and of course a common enemy, have welded our two adversaries into a formidable joint force. "

https://qz.com/india/990579/for-all-the-chest-thumping-india-cannot-win-a-war-against-pakistan/

Anonymous Anonymous August 06, 2019 2:12 PM  

why India is so determined to hold on to the subset of the Kashmir area that is actually Muslim dominant

Because the Hindus never wanted there to be a Pakistan in the first place. They have no qualms about expulsion and/or genocide of Muslims from a "greater India"; they lack the ability, not the will.

Blogger Azimus August 06, 2019 2:18 PM  

"a far superior army"

All I want to know is who has the most Ghurkas?

Blogger Crew August 06, 2019 2:27 PM  

India! Proving that they were wrong when they said millions of people could not be rounded up and evicted.

Blogger Sharrukin August 06, 2019 2:30 PM  

7.  DeepThoughtAugust 06, 2019 2:08 PM

@pyrrhus India loses to everyone.

India has won every war with Pakistan.
China would obviously be different, but Pakistan vs India would likely be an Indian victory.

Blogger Titanium Bear August 06, 2019 2:36 PM  

I used to send $ to Gospel for India. They trained local pastors

Blogger DeepThought August 06, 2019 2:54 PM  

Those that are bragging about Indian Pastors and Priests coming to America/West to preach God's message do not even realize they have lost.

We already have an example of this scenario playing out in the UK with Anglican Nigerian Priests coming to the UK to do their work. How did this work out for the British? Anglican Church is dead. If your own people will not sacrifice for God, than you have already lost.

Churchian much?

Blogger VFM #7634 August 06, 2019 3:25 PM  

You could make an argument for giving that part to Pakistan given a concentrated bunch of muslims are more trouble than they are worth, in general, plus the possibly reducing tensions between the two countries.

It happened to have a Hindu ruler when the partition took place, so it stayed with India. Also, Indians appear to take a similar attitude toward Kashmir that Serbs do toward Kosovo for some reason.

Blogger VFM #7634 August 06, 2019 3:41 PM  

There are more muslims in India than in Pakistan

With both India and Europe having large Muslim minorities, it looks like India-Pakistan is shaping up a lot like Europe-Turkey.

Blogger ZhukovG August 06, 2019 3:44 PM  

If the Indians fear that they may have to fight a war with China, perhaps they want to knock out Pakistan now to strengthen their position.

The Asian elephant in the room is that all three nations have significant nuclear arsenals. This should make a full on war very unlikely.

Personally, I think Modi wants to create a violent internal situation that will provide cover for his government to begin mass expulsion of the Muslim population.

Blogger PG August 06, 2019 4:04 PM  

Sad that people are in the middle of that.

Blogger DonReynolds August 06, 2019 4:38 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:Yep. Father Lonergan from The Quiet Man is my favorite Catholic priest.

That would be (the Great) Ward Bond, pretty much a regular in John Wayne movies. Pat O'Brien was the character actor that many Americans associated with playing the rough and ready Roman Catholic priest, often balancing the rotten Irish tough guy, Jimmy Cagney. Another actor, who really wanted to be a Catholic priest, and often played the part on the screen was Spencer Tracy. Some of his roles were particularly memorable and gave me more of a respect for the cloth than I might have otherwise acquired.

Blogger Clay August 06, 2019 4:38 PM  

We always bring up Pakistan. Sure, they have nukes. Who uses nukes?

What about Bangladesh

Blogger VFM Bear August 06, 2019 4:46 PM  

"We already have an example of this scenario playing out in the UK with Anglican Nigerian Priests coming to the UK to do their work. How did this work out for the British? Anglican Church is dead. If your own people will not sacrifice for God, than you have already lost."

Yup, not to mention that Wise Latino occupying the Holy See.

Blogger Garuna August 06, 2019 4:49 PM  

Muslims will wear them down further. Christians are a growing threat to Hindus. There is literally no way for Hindus to win.

Ridiculous. Hindus are barbarians who enjoy doing lynchings and pogroms in the 21st century, one of which was facilitated by the current Prime Minister. And they don't have the cuckservative and identity problems of Westerners. The Muslims and Christians of India will probably end up exterminated when the economic order breaks down.

Blogger Crew August 06, 2019 4:52 PM  

Looks like Modi has the right idea:

Modi’s bet is that by corralling Kashmir under tighter central government control, he will marginalise the secessionist politicians there, open Kashmir up for the return of Hindu Kashmiri minorities who had been ethnically cleansed by jihadists in the late 1980s, and alter the demographic mix in Kashmir through settlement of Indians of all religious and ethnic backgrounds.

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/465899-kashmir-modi-pakistan-trump/

Blogger Brett baker August 06, 2019 6:23 PM  

You misspelled Indonesia and Malaysia again.

Blogger Paul M August 06, 2019 6:31 PM  

People overestimate the power of having nukes. A nuke will take out several square miles of territory. But compared to the scale of a nation, or even a modern city, that isn't a lot. You can take out the downtown area, a single port, or as the movie put it, an ammo dump. But these days, nations decentralise their military for exactly this reason.

Sure, it would kill tens or hundreds of thousands of civilians. So what? It's not a military threat, you can't take territory by nuking it. The only use for it would be if for some reason you simply wanted to kill a whole bunch of people …

Oh. Right. Islam.

Blogger Sargent.matrim August 06, 2019 6:54 PM  

It's frustrating trying to explain to the average person how rare this peacetime and prosperity we have been living in is.

So many people are so historically illiterate, they think our prosperity is just going to uptick. And people are just going to get along more and more.

They can't see the trends all point the other way, because they are so brainwashed to not see it.

Maybe a mass repatriation in India will wake some more people up?

Blogger DonReynolds August 06, 2019 6:58 PM  

@64 Paul M
My uncle convinced me that nukes were completely worthless weapons, decades ago, and I have seen nothing that has changed that viewpoint.

Certainly, there are population centers and major cities, so it is no longer necessary to pound those targets day and night with 1,000 bomber air raids, but I seriously doubt it won the war anyway. It did kill and injure a huge number of people, military and civil, but they may have been more of a drain on the enemy war effort than a benefit.

There has been talk here about India and China or India and Pakistan going a few rounds and shooting each other. That can happen, particularly if it becomes a stable front line situation. Any temptation to resort to nuclear weapons would be when one side begins to lose and the attack turns into an invasion.

This was supposedly the reason the Soviets never rolled the dice to overrun the rest of Europe from the Warsaw Pact strongholds they had built. They had overwhelming numbers and what opposed them was not much more than a tripwire. They could get to Berlin (again) and maybe get close to Paris (this time), but at some point the nukes would begin to drop and that was a calculation they could never figure out to their advantage. NATO actually worked well, in this situation.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 06, 2019 9:08 PM  

The three purposes of NATO:

1) Keep the Warsaw Pact (i.e. The Soviet Union's Red Army, and their unwilling "not-by-choice allies") out of Western Europe.

2) Keep the Germans from invading France for a 4th time.

3) Keep the French from invading Germany (for an nnnth time) or in any other way, pissing off the Germans.

Blogger sammibandit August 06, 2019 9:29 PM  

Afaik there are ongoing problems with cattle rustlers/murderers in Kashmir. Muslims steal Hindu-owned cattle, ritually slaughter them, and consequently invite human massacre. It's a big operation involving tens of thousands of head of cattle. Of course this is taken as an act of war.

Garuna hinted at this and it bears repeating: Modi is very nationalist with regards to Hinduism. His track record real or implied as governor speaks for itself.

Kashmir also has a large amount of Christian converts. They tend to be poor but speak remarkably good English when they come abroad. Much more meek and humble than your average Roa or Patel in my experience. Ymmv in the particular but like any society the people in it inherited their personalities and broad strokes of social classes can be painted across time and space.

With that said, Pakistan is the first Islamic StateTM and has a lot to prove. Pakistani nationalists, though Indian by race where race is roughly synonymous with religion, are not nationally Pakistani. You can say "Indian Muslim" and be dialectically and rhetorically correct. An Indian Muslim in Kenya is Indian and an Indian Muslim in Pakistan is Indian. The only trifling matter is who is around to hear it. They were all historically Hindu or Buddhist.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 06, 2019 10:43 PM  

sammibandit wrote:An Indian Muslim in Kenya is Indian and an Indian Muslim in Pakistan is Indian. The only trifling matter is who is around to hear it. They were all historically Hindu or Buddhist.
There are at least 6 different races, dozens of languages, and perhaps hundreds of nations in India. There is very little racial mixing despite being in close proximity for in some cases millennia. Like the Parsees, most of the Moslems in India are ethnically distinct from the general populations, the descendants of Aryan, or Urdu or Pasthun or Mughal or Uighur, or Mongol or other Central Asian or Chinese or even Greek invaders.
Hinduism is the one thing that holds the country together. Moslems threaten that. Either India devolves into an out-of-control civil war of all against all, Tamil v Tulugu v Bengali v Dekkan v Dravid, or they unify around Hinduism and related sects, and kick out the Moslems.
Having worked in IT, I know a lot of Indians. I expect them to kick out the Moslems.

Blogger Ska_Boss August 06, 2019 10:47 PM  

Let the muzzies do what they have been doing to each other for thousands of years. The USA needs to stay the hell out of it.

Blogger sammibandit August 07, 2019 10:29 AM  

Yanno what Snidley? You're right. I should have leaned on what I said when I noted Kashmiris are distinct. I know better.

Fwiw I tend to conform to the Out of India theory rather than the Aryan Invasian theory, but I'm not sure you implied you favor the latter when you talk about the Greek invasion. The OIT vs AIT discussion greatly interests me though. I'd be curious to hear your insights if time/resources permit.

Totally agreed on Hinduism winning out.

Blogger Birdman August 07, 2019 1:07 PM  

So that means the brits already lost eh

Blogger Birdman August 07, 2019 1:08 PM  

Who?

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