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Monday, October 07, 2019

The Great Withdrawal begins

The God-Emperor is directly confronting the treasonous neoclowns.
President Donald Trump’s sudden decision to pull back U.S. troops from northern Syria drew quick, strong criticism Monday from some of his closest allies in Congress. It was condemned, too, by Kurdish fighters who would be abandoned to face a likely Turkish assault after fighting alongside Americans for years against the Islamic State.

The announcement threw the military situation in Syria into fresh chaos and injected deeper uncertainty into U.S. relations with European allies. Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham called it “a disaster,” while Syria’s Kurds accused the U.S. of turning its back on allies and risking gains made in the years-long fight against ISIS.

Trump defended his decision, acknowledging in tweets that “the Kurds fought with us” but adding that they “were paid massive amounts of money and equipment to do so.”

“I held off this fight for almost 3 years, but it is time for us to get out of these ridiculous Endless Wars, many of them tribal, and bring our soldiers home,” he wrote.
There are precisely zero Americans who aren't on the neoclown take who don't support the withdrawal of US troops from the Middle East. The most idiotic thing about the mainstream narrative here is that it wasn't the US military that defeated ISIS in the first place, it was Syria, Russia, Iran, and Hezbollah.

It's not as if the neoclowns actually care about the Kurds or the sovereign integrity of Syria, it's that they are seeing their insane dreams of orchestrating a US-Iran war vanishing into smoke.

Labels: ,

167 Comments:

Blogger D Zniger October 07, 2019 2:12 PM  

I hated it when Trump went into Syria to take the territory in the South bordering Jordan and then with the Kurds taking the North.
The Russians and Iranians could have done it without the Americans and I never understood it why Trump did it. I am glad that Trump has changed his opinion about that.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 October 07, 2019 2:19 PM  

Good news all around. Looks like this was the God-Emperor's plan once he got rid of Bolton and many other treasonous cucks.

Blogger Slen October 07, 2019 2:22 PM  

Lindsey Graham sure didn't do the GE any favors when he came out so strongly opposed to this decision. Just when I thought there might be some hope for the guy.

Blogger Lovekraft October 07, 2019 2:27 PM  

O/T Mike Cernovich was assaulted outside nightclub in 2018. Decision hands perp 18 months in jail. From article: "“Now that the criminal case is closed, I will also be taking legal action against Mr. Campbell and his confederates. It is time to find out who is funding Antifa,” (Cernovich) said.

Anyone else notice George Soros' son Alex appearing in the past week, more than usual?Mention of George Soros' name is pretty regular, but I've noticed it's ramped up recently with Schiff association and Ukraine corruption. It's common knowledge that Soros is behind the migrant ships and BLM.

I'm keeping a close eye on this coverage. Imagine if the media was so utterly corrupt and a widespread, sustained news cycle covered the Sins of Soros

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 07, 2019 2:31 PM  

The hard-and-fast rule of Kurdish culture is to always sacrifice the children for the safety of the parents. To the point of whole towns turning the children out into the fields to starve during famines.
Why we should consider them any kind of friend or useful ally is beyond me. What have the Kurds done for us beyond killing other Moslems?

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelphia October 07, 2019 2:33 PM  

Yeah, I get it, we all get it -- our nation can't go around parachuting into some god-forsaken desert hell hole and make it all better.

But at the same time, can we turn a blind eye to the reality? The Turks are vicious -- they slaughtered the Armenians, and they are going to slaughter the Kurds. Do we do nothing, or just say, "Oh, well, not our problem" -- even though that statement in fact is true?

Yeah, I get it...we can't follow that asshole John Bolton and retaliate against Iran every time they fly some stupid drone bomb into an oil field. But it is a REALLY bad idea for Iran to get nuclear weapons -- you do not want a bunch guys who think the messiah is living in a well in Qom to have the world's most dangerous weapons. And, don't get me wrong...Israel can defend itself, but the consequences of Iran with a nuclear weapon goes beyond our pals in Tel Aviv.

And then there's China. Do we just stand by while they engage in their depredations? Building artificial islands? Getting huge swaths of Africa indebted? (note: The Chinese have NOT read Aquinas, and even if they did, they wouldn't give a shit).

I don't have an answer to these problems, and those who think they have THE answers (like John Bolton or Lindsey Graham) are delusional.

But they ARE problems. And we'd better think hard about what the answers could or should be.

Blogger boogeyman October 07, 2019 2:33 PM  

Bomb the world, garrison the world, invite the world into your country, give welfare to the world. Neo-cons are like the "We Are The World" singers from the 80's, except they have bombers and aircraft carriers and use them like an addict uses a glass pipe.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella October 07, 2019 2:35 PM  

God Bless President Trump.

if he keeps up seeking peace, God Bless Emperor Trump.

Blogger VD October 07, 2019 2:39 PM  

But at the same time, can we turn a blind eye to the reality?

No one said anything about turning a blind eye. It's not our fucking business and not our fucking problem.

The Turks are vicious -- they slaughtered the Armenians, and they are going to slaughter the Kurds.

Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. Again, not our fucking business, not our fucking problem. Perhaps we should STOP SELLING THEM WEAPONS instead of trying to prevent them from using the weapons we sell them.

Do we do nothing, or just say, "Oh, well, not our problem" -- even though that statement in fact is true?

We do both. We do nothing and we say "not our problem".

Blogger Slen October 07, 2019 2:40 PM  

The Kurds also did a lot of the dirty work in the Armenian genocide.

Blogger VD October 07, 2019 2:42 PM  

But it is a REALLY bad idea for Iran to get nuclear weapons

The US cannot and will not stop it. That genie is long out of the bottle. Remember, the same was said about North Korea too. No one wants to get nuked, they just want to prevent conventional invasion.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 07, 2019 2:42 PM  

KPKinSunnyPhiladelphia wrote:Do we do nothing, or just say, "Oh, well, not our problem" -- even though that statement in fact is true?

Both!

KPKinSunnyPhiladelphia wrote:But it is a REALLY bad idea for Iran to get nuclear weapons
...
And then there's China.


We can nuke China when they threaten us. We can nuke Iran any old time, and should, just because they're mohammedans. There is no reason for us to invade and invite. Not our circus, not our monkeys.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction October 07, 2019 2:44 PM  

@6

But they aren't our problems.

Blogger Longtime Lurker October 07, 2019 2:46 PM  

Trump is daring Erdogan to jump into the Syrian quagmire with both mailed feet.

Not that Erdogan needs the encouragement.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 October 07, 2019 2:46 PM  

Slen wrote:Lindsey Graham sure didn't do the GE any favors when he came out so strongly opposed to this decision. Just when I thought there might be some hope for the guy.

Lindsay Graham should be holding hearings about all the treasonous crap that has been going on in this country.

There's no hope for men like him. The only rational thing to do is kick them out of office.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch October 07, 2019 2:48 PM  

Vox, Drudge is hugely demoralizing. I hardly check him anymore, but when I do (as you probably know), it's clear to me he's just "gay and wants attention."

But Drudge is showing us the multitude number of attacks that are going against this president--who's truly been a man for the people.

All that said: Do you think all of these different nasty tricks will be used against Democrat presidents in the future? You've said in the past that the Right is starting to use the tactics of the Left. Will we do the same when the next Obama comes into office?

Blogger sammibandit October 07, 2019 2:49 PM  

But at the same time, can we turn a blind eye to the reality? The Turks are vicious -- they slaughtered the Armenians, and they are going to slaughter the Kurds. Do we do nothing, or just say, "Oh, well, not our problem" -- even though that statement in fact is true?

Maybe this is hard to take. If we're going to care about Turks maybe caring about what they did to Aussies is a bigger deal than what they did to Armenians.

Either way, it is all in the wind. We can't keep living like it's still the twentieth century and imagining every group has a debit and credit sheet above their heads.

Blogger Up from the pond October 07, 2019 2:51 PM  

For some time now Haaretz has been criticizing both Trump and Bibi on the grounds that their current scandals have slowed the momentum to starting a war on Iran.

They are seeing their murderous dreams vanishing into smoke, indeed.

Therefore this may be the moment of greatest danger.

What new trick might they pull? And if they "pull it," would the gullible goyim rally to the Stars 'n' Stripes and bleed for "Jerusalem" yet again?

It may be smart for us to press the war-propaganda-skepticism pedal especially hard for a few months.

Blogger Salt October 07, 2019 2:54 PM  

many of them tribal

That's how it was till the enemy of my enemy became my friend... till they won't be anymore once the reason for the friendship is gone.

Blogger VFM #7634 October 07, 2019 2:54 PM  

@Longtime Lurker

Conservative Treehouse interprets it that way, namely Trump playing "let's you and him fight" with Erdogan and whomever. Not just the YPG but likely Assad and his allies as well.

Blogger Gettimothy October 07, 2019 2:57 PM  

Blessed are the peace makers.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother October 07, 2019 2:58 PM  

Erdogan would do well to read Uncle Remus. The Tar Baby, specifically.

Blogger 351wsl October 07, 2019 3:02 PM  

You know, those who support the Kurds don't have to do nothing. They can always send their own money or buy a plane ticket and pick up a rifle.

I always notice how easy it is for people to claim "we have to do something" when it's not their money and not their blood.

Blogger Welsh Woodsman October 07, 2019 3:03 PM  

"Do we do nothing, or just say, "Oh, well, not our problem" -- even though that statement in fact is true?"

I'm personally so beyond giving a shit about problems outside of this country , it would make not giving a shit seem like I care.
Daily, I see the effects of a cratered economy that is a direct result of globalism and usury. Where once robust mill towns filled with blue collar jobs now look like Dresden after the bombings. Where the social trust that used to be prevelant is nearly invisible and hanging on by a thread...houses need to be locked at all times and vehicles run the risk of being broken into - even in rural areas. Where the purchasing power of our dollar is being lost so fast - you can measure it by the month, where opioids have destroyed whole swaths of the population of our rural young that its nearly impossible to find any healthy able bodied males to work blue collar jobs. Where those not felled by opioids are crippled by addictions to alcohol and other drugs and are product of broken homes wracked by violence. Where daily, immigrants who come from countries practicing cannibalism and carrying horrific diseases are being bussed into rural communities already on life support - further destroying what semblance of social trust still exists and putting even greater financial strain on the rural community that has to take these gifts of diversity.
Yea my reserve of giving a shit has been pretty much tapped out. I could care less what happens to the Middle East, Africa, South America and anywhere else in the world for that matter. Our problems are massive enough here to cease carrying about anywhere else.

Blogger Gettimothy October 07, 2019 3:03 PM  

if you want to see neocons rage, read bill kristol's and max boot's twitter feeds; remember too, that neither of these clowns can do a push up and both of them want you and your family to die in wars of their making.



Blogger Up from the pond October 07, 2019 3:04 PM  

Slen wrote:The Kurds also did a lot of the dirty work in the Armenian genocide.

True.

People wringing their hands over the fate of two groups of cutthroats (Kurds and Turks) on the other side of the planet, while their own nation is dying, are misguided at best. Most of them are merely liars on the take.

Blogger maniacprovost October 07, 2019 3:05 PM  

Too bad there's no Kurdistan. Oh well.

Blogger Welsh Woodsman October 07, 2019 3:06 PM  

"There's no hope for men like him. The only rational thing to do is kick them out of office."

Can we expect anything else from leaders who practice sodomy. They're compromised before they even start.

Blogger dienw October 07, 2019 3:12 PM  

It's not as if the neoclowns actually care about the Kurds or the sovereign integrity of Syria, it's that they are seeing their insane dreams of orchestrating a US-Iran war vanishing into smoke.


The Kurds are most likely on Greater Israel's list of whom to obliterate.

Blogger Damelon Brinn October 07, 2019 3:13 PM  

Do we do nothing, or just say, "Oh, well, not our problem" -- even though that statement in fact is true?

Let me check my globe....yep, looks like Turkey and Kurdistan are still all the way on the other side. Yes, nothing is exactly what I'm going to keep on doing, and what I want my nation's leaders to do. If you want to do something, get a plane ticket.

I understand that a lot of the violence in other parts of the world wouldn't have happened or gotten as bad without US interference in the first place. But we can't undo that, and waiting for the perfect exit that doesn't let anyone get hurt in the process is a recipe for staying everywhere forever. Pull out and let them take their chances, or stay there and keep making things worse. Those are the only options.

Blogger Up from the pond October 07, 2019 3:13 PM  

> many of them tribal

Heh.

Blogger Shimshon October 07, 2019 3:13 PM  

The more I see things like this, the more I believe that the "secret plan to go right in the second term" is not just a pipe dream this time.

Blogger urthshu October 07, 2019 3:15 PM  

Cynical take: babysit them there, or here when they inevitably claim refugee status, it hardly matters.

Blogger Longtime Lurker October 07, 2019 3:19 PM  

@20: Judging from the unnamed senior U.S. officials talking to the press today, this is all a giant reverse psych game: By inviting Erodgan to jump in, we call his bluff, and hope he gets cold feet and stays out: "Ya feeling lucky, punk! No U.S. protection. No NATO Article V."

Random Observations: Trump did not order any withdrawal of U.S. military at this time. He ordered it back in December 2018.

Trump pulled his latest power move at a time when (1) he has a new guy at the NSC purging staff because leaks, (2) Secretary Pompeo is visiting Greece, which will offer us bases, (3) Erdogan overplayed his hand, and (4) someone fed the Democrats after midnight.

Blogger Brad October 07, 2019 3:20 PM  

The "right thinking elites" will be shocked by how popular this move is for most Americans.

This strategy of getting our military out of the middle east is almost like building part of the wall. The adage "invade the world, invite the world" is true. I know this firsthand by the number of women I see in hijab growing every day. Stopping our involvement in these countries can be nothing but a good. More please!

Blogger One Deplorable DT October 07, 2019 3:22 PM  

A win for the God Emperor. Now if he deploys these troops to the southern boarder when they get home it will be a double win.

Blogger DeepThought October 07, 2019 3:23 PM  

Turks have lost over 50,000 civilian deaths due to terrorist attacks.

Would America forgive? Turks will not also.

Facts: Two largest Kurdish factions are Communists (YPG and PKK) and one is a known terrorist group (PKK).

Why are people supporting Communists?

Insane.

Blogger urthshu October 07, 2019 3:25 PM  

It's worth asking who is going to help us when our great fall comes around.

Blogger DeepThought October 07, 2019 3:27 PM  

I just want to remind the "World is ending" Chickenhawks that the Turks invaded Afrin and the surrounding area.

No mass slaughter of civilians occurred and no Americans died. The Turks suffered 60+ casualties and killed over 14,000+ terrorists and Syrian Army while achieving all their objectives. They still control these areas.

Blogger andrisf October 07, 2019 3:27 PM  

Few things to remember, Trump already tried to pull troops from Syria and failed, there are not many troops there, it would take neocons less then 2 hours to put all troops that are there back if they all are pulled out, there are UK, French and possibly some other troops in bases with US troops and on separate bases, not to mention troop withdrawal is just from northern Syria.
To summarize this is just another typical Trump moment - good idea, even better rhetoric, but zero meaning and zero real action behind it all.
IF Trump actually wanted to pull troops he can do it within about 1 year considering vast logistics involved and NOBODY can interfere with it as he is THE PRESIDENT. He could start from Japan, then Korea, then Europe, then all the sand countries etc, etc and close all +- 1000 bases around the world.
But he will not, why you can conclude for yourself.

Blogger CarpeOro October 07, 2019 3:35 PM  

@KP
"But at the same time, can we turn a blind eye to the reality? The Turks are vicious -- they slaughtered the Armenians,"

Hold up right there. Check with some Armenians that are familiar with the event - Kurds were heavily involved in the slaughter of the Armenians also. It wasn't just the Ottoman army, it was also many of the surrounding ethnic groups including Azerbaijanis and Kurds. Most of the different groups have been feuding since they settled in that region. With the Kurds, they have been squabling with the Armenians since they were known as the Medes. Yeah, the ones in the Old Testament. To answer your second question, yes, the Armenians have been around that long, with a kingdom named Urartu.

Blogger Nikolai Collushnikov October 07, 2019 3:35 PM  

Nobody is stopping interested do-gooders from buying a rifle and a plane ticket and fighting side by side with our Kurdish brothers.

Now, I think I see why Trump has been arming Israel and the Saudis the last three years. Hmmm..

Blogger Newscaper312 October 07, 2019 3:39 PM  

Drudge just now has a red headline about Pat Robertson trashing Trump over this.

Blogger Iron Spartan October 07, 2019 3:40 PM  

Ending the Forever Wars also ends the pipeline of easy graft money, which is what the neoclowns are really shreiking about

Blogger Dirk Manly October 07, 2019 3:41 PM  

@37

"
Why are people supporting Communists?

Insane."

For the same reason that these same people were anti-anti-Soviets, but now that the Commies are gone, are suddenly anti-Russian.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 07, 2019 3:41 PM  

If the Turks genocided the Armenians, why are there Armenians all over American tabloids and cable TV reality shows? They sure did a lousy job of it.
Ataturk was almost as bad at it as Hitler.

@KP, Still believing everything you see on television? That's kinda lame.

Blogger Up from the pond October 07, 2019 3:42 PM  

@37 Dönmeh inside the gate, Kurdish Jews outside the gate. Which should America back? None. Whom should America defend? Only Americans. Where should America be? In America.

Blogger One Deplorable DT October 07, 2019 3:43 PM  

@9 - Perhaps we should STOP SELLING THEM WEAPONS instead of trying to prevent them from using the weapons we sell them.

I don't know if I've ever agreed with Vox more than I do on this specific point.

@6 - But it is a REALLY bad idea for Iran to get nuclear weapons -- you do not want a bunch guys who think the messiah is living in a well in Qom to have the world's most dangerous weapons.

I tend to feel the same way. I'm not convinced that we can trust Muslims to act rationally with regard to nukes. But the most I would tolerate would be an airstrike against a critical asset in their nuclear program, same as Operation Opera against Iraq in 1981. Absolutely no endless war and no boots on the ground.

The problem is that once you do that there is the risk they will try to retaliate and escalate. And since we're tied up in two nations next to them we've given them the ability to force an escalation. Yet another example of why we should have gratefully accepted the gift of two oceans which God gave us, and kept our troops at home.

It could also be countered that Muslims already have nukes via two Islamic nations, Pakistan and Britain. So the genie is indeed out of the bottle.

The more I think about it the more I believe that the solution to the problems in the middle east is to drill our own oil and deploy our armed forces on our southern boarder.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 07, 2019 3:44 PM  

"We have to do something!" always ends with the best of America raped to death and eaten by savages.

Blogger CarpeOro October 07, 2019 3:44 PM  

Didn't finish the thought. The point is, there is never an end to the fighting in the Middle East and the inter tribal conflicts can go back millennia. I can empathize with them but I won't sacrifice a single American life to help them continue to fail to sort things out.

Blogger Oswald October 07, 2019 3:45 PM  

Last I checked the Turks were still our NATO ally. Obama and his foolish polices, like flying a giant rainbow flag off the side of our embassy in Turkey, nearly drove the Turks into the arms of the Russians. Trump, if anything I would think, is putting us on better terms with the Turks. And I believe having Turkey on our side is a lot better than having the Kurds on our side.

Another thing the government doesn't want to admit too, is that Obama was trying to overthrow Assad in Syria, and Obama supplied ISIS with weapons directly or indirectly. So if there is a big ISIS jail break, so what Obama won't be there to funnel weapons to them. They won't be nearly as dangerous, but even if they are dangerous, so what, I see them as a local problem, as I think Vox does.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 October 07, 2019 3:45 PM  

Newscaper312 wrote:Drudge just now has a red headline about Pat Robertson trashing Trump over this.

Of course the Churchian-in-Chief is pushing the genocide of non-Jewish brown people.

Blogger One Deplorable DT October 07, 2019 3:46 PM  

@43 - Drudge just now has a red headline about Pat Robertson trashing Trump over this.

Honk Honk

Blogger Newscaper312 October 07, 2019 3:46 PM  

@22
Parts of whats so ridiculous about Disney's complete memory holing of its Song of the South is that the tales told by Uncle Remus are supposedly based on some African folk tales, sort of their Aesop's fables, and actually hold some good lessons -- unlike so much else of their 'culture' we don't dare criticize in public.

Blogger Gen. Kong October 07, 2019 3:47 PM  

Why are people supporting Communists?

Because they're communists themselves. Neo-Clowns started out as Trotskyites and they've never really changed in their ideology except for the brand name. It's always been global revolution in service of Talmudic Supremacism. They've tweaked around the edges on economic theory (though not as much as first appears when you look into the activities of mega-capitalists like Armand Hammer and the Schiff Bankster-Dynasty in the Bolshevik era). Usury and the strip-mine 'capitalism' it spawns are even more useful tools for the ultimate objective than the rabble-rousing, agitation and propaganda in favor of their brand of socialism. (= the usual suspects get to socialize the costs while they privatize the profits).

Blogger Jack Ward October 07, 2019 3:47 PM  

Will read the other comments later, but, once again I'm bolstered in my support for the GE and his re-election next year.
Well done President Trump, well done indeed! Now, don't change your mind in the next few days. Please.

Blogger Dr Caveman October 07, 2019 3:47 PM  

About time. The whole middle East is such a quagmire of historical, ethnic, religious and tribal strife that peace is impossible.

Withdraw, let them sort it out among themselves and focus US lives, time and energy on things that matter instead

Blogger Newscaper312 October 07, 2019 3:48 PM  

@52
Drudges panties in a bunch wrt Trump has really grown tiresome.
That plus his increasing fascination with the crappiest most sensational and yes idiotic UFO stories from UK tabloids.

Blogger Noah B. October 07, 2019 3:48 PM  

In the 80's there was lots of blathering about how the Afghani Mujahideen were our friends and natural allies too, and look how that turned out.

Blogger sammibandit October 07, 2019 3:49 PM  

If the Turks genocided the Armenians, why are there Armenians all over American tabloids and cable TV reality shows? They sure did a lousy job of it.
Ataturk was almost as bad at it as Hitler.


Hahahahaha. Makes me think about "Alvin and the Chipmunks" by Bagdassarian. When I was younger I used to wonder why all the bad guys in the remake were German. Hmmm.

Blogger Unknown October 07, 2019 3:52 PM  

Trump's Tweet contradicted your post.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 07, 2019 3:55 PM  

@39

"
No mass slaughter of civilians occurred and no Americans died. The Turks suffered 60+ casualties and killed over 14,000+ terrorists and Syrian Army while achieving all their objectives. They still control these areas."

This is NOT a good thing, as it brings Turkish troops into a higher likelihood of getting into direct combat with Russian troops.

The Russo-Turkish wars go back since when the capital of the Rus' was Kiev.

The Turks are being real idiots here, threatening the warm water port (Damascus) of Russia's Black Sea Fleet.

Russia will support the Assad regime to ridiculously high levels to keep a friendly government in control of the naval base at Tartus. Trump is quite right to tell the Turks that if you want to keep this fight going, you're on your own.

Blogger Gettimothy October 07, 2019 3:59 PM  

Schlichter has some good rhetoric on the matter. "Well, you can't set out and objective for Northern Syria, nor the resources you would commit, not the number of American lives you consider worth sacrificing for the objective you cannot identify."


Pat Robertson is appalled! https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1181258801455996934

I absolutely love how Trump clears the mud from the waters.

Btw, "Apocalypse" means "unveiling" ; we are literally living in Apocalyptic times.





Blogger Long Live The West October 07, 2019 4:01 PM  

If this is a legal issue...

We have no business being there.

If it's a moral issue...

Would you support XCountry giving military aid to a millitant group of liberals in California and bombing random people in Arizona and Nevada?

The affairs of the world aren't our problem. Fun fact: the majority of people also don't want us there. There's always going to be an outlier faction that will accept military support. That doesnt mean we should give it to them.

Blogger Welsh Woodsman October 07, 2019 4:02 PM  

"Ataturk was almost as bad at it as Hitler."

If Hitler had not existed ((they)) would have had to create him. This trope continues 85 years later and - surprisingly -still works. But I take comfort that when the last Boomer croaks it will probably have outlived its usefulness.

Blogger Matt October 07, 2019 4:04 PM  

The Littlest Chicken-Hawk is very upset:

"Abandoning the Kurds to the tender mercies of the Turkish government -- a government led by Islamist dictator Erdogan -- is a foreign policy disaster."

Blogger Jack Ward October 07, 2019 4:04 PM  

Scanned the comments above mine. I really like the idea of our overseas troops on the southern border. Fine training area for desert warfare. Character builder for the troops. Good liberty to be had in a number of places along that border. Rotate the units to other areas on the border to keep them sharp. And, to allow some of those liberty cities to be enjoyed. Never been there, the middle east, but have heard plenty of stories about non socializing with the natives. Seems a win win to me. Get them home. Plus think of all the votes added to the southern border states and the fun of interdiction of wetbacks particularly if the ROE makes sense.

Blogger Miguel October 07, 2019 4:05 PM  

But....but. what about America's ((greatest ally)))?!!

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction October 07, 2019 4:05 PM  

@51

Last I checked the Turks were still our NATO ally.

Yet another reminder why we need to kill NATO

Blogger Dirk Manly October 07, 2019 4:07 PM  

@51

"Last I checked the Turks were still our NATO ally. Obama and his foolish polices, like flying a giant rainbow flag off the side of our embassy in Turkey, nearly drove the Turks into the arms of the Russians."

The Turks and the Russians hate each other. It goes back for over 1,000 years. Back when Russian traders had to fight their way THROUGH the Turks just to sell and buy good in [ strike ] Lygos [ /strike ] [ strike ] Byzantium [ /strike ] [ strike ] Augusta Antonina [ /strike ] [ strike ] Alma Roma [ /strike ] [ strike ] Constantinople [ /strike ]

Blogger Newscaper312 October 07, 2019 4:09 PM  

re the Kurds... seems a shame a deal couldn't be brokered for some of the Kurds in Syria, Turkey and Iran to move (be moved?) to Kurdish Iraq, which appears to be a decent pseudo-country so I have some sympathy. Maybe with horse trading a few strips of adjacent borders. Could ameliorate a lot of problems.
Now if those different groups of Kurds hate each other too?
Then even more not our freaking problem.

Blogger Gettimothy October 07, 2019 4:10 PM  

@51 please answer Kirt Shlichter's questions:

1. set out the objective for Northern Syria.
2. the resources you would commit
3. the number of American lives you consider worth sacrificing for achieving the objective you specify in 1.

Also, when will you be enlisting?

thank you for your service!

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 07, 2019 4:12 PM  

Oswald wrote:nearly drove the Turks into the arms of the Russians.
Well, crazy takes all forms, I guess. I have to confess that's one alternate reality I never expected to see someone claim with a straight face. I'll bet you heard that from some "expert" on Fox.
Russians and Turks have hated each other since at least the days of the Seljuq Empire 1000 years ago.
The only time they can be said to have allied in all that time is when Russia was a vassal state of the (((Bolsheviks))).
Russia considers herself the legitimate heir to the Eastern Empire and at the back of every dealing between Russia and Turkey is the desire to reclaim the Bosporus and the Hagia Sophia.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 07, 2019 4:24 PM  

I like the conservativetreehouse explanation, sounds logical.

Blogger justaguy October 07, 2019 4:34 PM  

Pat Robertson is calling Trump out now!!! Oh no!!!! He must have really stirred up someone. While I wouldn't like Iran to get nukes, I'd rather not be involved in Syria anyway.

From what I can tell, pretty much any dispute when the Dems picked sides-- they/we picked the wrong ones. Not that Bush did a better job-- but hey we elected a boy president-- and a rich spoiled son at that so what did we expect. We had a choice of two idiot sons of the rich politicians and we picked the smarter one who didn't tell the world that internal combustion engines were the worst invention of all time (The Earth in the Balance ).

Now how do we get all of our troop out of the ME and just send a few countries $.













































Blogger Up from the pond October 07, 2019 4:39 PM  

Israel and the U.S. certainly show a lot of interest in the Kurds. It's almost like the Kurds are the Jews' #1 muscle in the region right now. Like ISIS was.

Nah. I'm sure their interest is humanitarian.

Did anyone else notice Graham's threat? "This may lead to a resurgence of ISIS." He might as well have added, "I'm on the phone to them right now." John gave him the number.

Blogger Gettimothy October 07, 2019 4:54 PM  

Interesting Obama angle. According to the following, Obama, the marxist-muslim-commie aligned Murica with the Kurdish PKK (Sing Lee Greenwood!) .

We aligned under Obama not with “the Kurds,” but with the PKK, the sworn enemy of the Turkish Republic, our ally. We were sowing the seeds of a Turkish-PKK war with that policy. We were also driving Turkey toward Russia.


Not one more American life.

Blogger Robert What? October 07, 2019 4:54 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger Jim the Curmudgeon October 07, 2019 4:58 PM  

I don't understand this western fascination with the Kurds. The Kurds were the main executioners of the Christian Armenians and Assyrians. They also played a large role in purging the Greek population of Turkey.

(Haven't heard them apologize for it either).

Neither the Turks nor the Kurds should be supported by Christians. If the Jewish neocons want to do so, fine, but I fail to see why Christians would go along with it.

Blogger The Lab Manager October 07, 2019 4:58 PM  

If Pat Robertson is unhappy with it, then that's good. I'm so tired of the evangelical cucks just itching for another dumbass ME war to fulfill their misguided religious BS rapturous interpretation at the expense of everyone else.

Blogger Azimus October 07, 2019 4:58 PM  

Withdraw the troops then sell Syria and the Kurds what they need to defend themselves and stop all subsidies to Turkey

Blogger Longtime Lurker October 07, 2019 5:09 PM  

@66: That figures. Because inside every Israeli a Kurd is screaming to get out. /s

Blogger Harry_the_Horrible October 07, 2019 5:10 PM  

Give the Kurds some money and an introduction to Putin and the Sov, er, Russians.
Syria is a Russian client state and this is Russia's problem.
It is not worth another life of an American Allied service member, or and another taxpayer dollar.

Blogger HouellebecqGurl October 07, 2019 5:18 PM  

The Kurds are Antifa Commie buddies. I hope Erdogan wipes the rest of that menace in Syria out.

Blogger HouellebecqGurl October 07, 2019 5:22 PM  

Why is it a bad idea for Iran to get nuke powers?
They've never attacked the US, nor any other ME county, in the last 200 yrs.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 07, 2019 5:25 PM  

HouellebecqGurl wrote:They've never attacked the US, nor any other ME county, in the last 200 yrs.
Cue Stephen Davenport or Dirk Manly to chime in about the US embassy occupation in 1979.

Blogger Crush Limbraw October 07, 2019 5:30 PM  

What happened to DaTwoDay rule here?:)
Personally, I'm waiting to see what happens - but so far, those who are agin' it means I be for it!

Blogger Karen took the Kids October 07, 2019 5:32 PM  

Better late than never. I hope John Bolton drowns on his own vomit. Hopefully Trump is gauging the reactions from the neo-clowns to decide which careers to end next.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants October 07, 2019 5:38 PM  

Did you mean payroll?
Because that's much more likely.
Also, screw the Armenians. They are nothing but Dollar Store Jews.

Blogger Rhino Bear October 07, 2019 5:47 PM  

I'm going to do a painting of all the cucks swinging from lamp posts in front of the whitehouse. They are 100% worse than the leftist morons.

Blogger rcocean October 07, 2019 5:47 PM  

If Turkey is so evil, why are they in NATO?

Blogger rcocean October 07, 2019 5:48 PM  

BTW, why are southerners always in favor getting involved in wars everywhere on the planet?

Blogger pyrrhus October 07, 2019 5:50 PM  

@88 Indeed, the Iranians getting nukes would benefit the US immensely by kneecapping the neoclowns....

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants October 07, 2019 5:51 PM  

Ana Kasparian
Anita Sarkessian
Cher
The Kardashian sluts.

Yeah, sure wish there were more Armenians whores and SJWs in America!

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 07, 2019 5:52 PM  

rcocean wrote:If Turkey is so evil, why are they in NATO?
Because we invited them in.
Do you somehow think NATO membership is proof of rectitude?
"If vampires are evil, why is there one in your basement?"
The question itself makes no sense.

Blogger pyrrhus October 07, 2019 5:53 PM  

It's a mystery to me why anyone cares about the fate of the Kurds, who are basically the jews of central Asia...

Blogger Ransom Smith October 07, 2019 5:57 PM  

BTW, why are southerners always in favor getting involved in wars everywhere on the planet?
Define Southerners please.
And don't invoke the Bushes.
They're from Connecticut.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants October 07, 2019 5:57 PM  

The Kurds are Commie trash. Stop listening to normie con rhetoric.
I also hope Vox does a DS so that some of you still stuck in a GOP mindset get your minds clear.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother October 07, 2019 6:00 PM  

"BTW, why are southerners always in favor getting involved in wars everywhere on the planet?"

Piss off

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants October 07, 2019 6:00 PM  

Pat's gonna do what his Israeli backed handlers tell him to do/say.
Scratch a ZioCon, & you'll find a gentile cuck with Jewish pay piggies.

Blogger VFM #7634 October 07, 2019 6:03 PM  

Why is it a bad idea for Iran to get nuke powers?
They've never attacked the US, nor any other ME county, in the last 200 yrs.


They're still butthurt at us over Mossadegh. (Thanks, CIA, you @#$%s.) Eventually you do have to fight someone who never forgives you.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants October 07, 2019 6:12 PM  

Good rhetoric, good screen name.
I too, hope Bolton chokes to death on his own vomit. At the exact same time as Max Boot, Jonah Goldberg, Bill Kristol, Ben Shapiro, Ben Sasse, Mitt Romney and Liz Cheney.
A girl can dream.

Blogger Newscaper312 October 07, 2019 6:13 PM  

@91 LOL new one on me but fits so well.

@92 I'd settle for heads on the [s]pikes of the White House fences.

@94 Not this one from Alabama.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants October 07, 2019 6:15 PM  

I dunno how it happened, but I seem to have been logged out of my usual acct and into this one. Wtf, Google?
Anyone else ever have that
happen, where you're now logged into a different acct, without you doing a thing?

Blogger Lamarck October 07, 2019 6:23 PM  

Shouldn't we wait two days for Trump to go back on his word?

Blogger Dirk Manly October 07, 2019 6:26 PM  

@79

"I don't understand this western fascination with the Kurds. The Kurds were the main executioners of the Christian Armenians and Assyrians."

Because (((the media))) has always pushed the mythos of the underdog, usually as a stand-in for themselves. Seriously, how many of them actually like, or associate with blacks for any purpose other than financial or political gain.

Advocacy for "the less powerful" is kneejerk dogma with them, because they USE it against every society which they infest and undermine.

And yeah, they obviously get off on it, or else the vast majority of them would have all moved to Israel by now. But no, undermining Christian countries is more important.

Blogger SciVo October 07, 2019 6:32 PM  

Laramie Hirsch wrote:All that said: Do you think all of these different nasty tricks will be used against Democrat presidents in the future? You've said in the past that the Right is starting to use the tactics of the Left. Will we do the same when the next Obama comes into office?

The next time there is a Democrat President and a Republican House, the POTUS-elect will take his oath of office with articles of impeachment already written up and ready to go.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 07, 2019 6:44 PM  

VFM #7634 wrote:They're still butthurt at us over Mossadegh. (Thanks, CIA, you @#$%s.) Eventually you do have to fight someone who never forgives you.
Do you actually know any Persians? Cause I know a few. They're mad about the last 40 years of the US doing everything it could to impoverish and/or destroy them.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 07, 2019 6:57 PM  

"If Turkey is so evil, why are they in NATO?"

1. A soviet move into much of the mideast oilfields would necessarily go through Turkey unless the Commies tried (uncharachteristically) to go with a single-axis attack. The Soviet way of war is for all attacks to advance along 3 parallel lanes, and then push hard through whichever lane is advancing the fastest, bypass the lane which experiences the most resistance, and then, once around the point of resistance, spread out into 3 lanes of advance again.

2) Turkey COMPLETELY controls the Straights of Bosporus and the Dardanelles, which is the only waterway that a vessels can use to transit between the Black Sea and the Med.

3) Turkey's land mass provided excellent locations for signals intelligence operations to eavesdrop on whatever electromagnetic activity happened inside "European Russia," Ukraine, Belarus, Bulgaria, Rumania, and Moldova, all of which was outright USSR territory or Warsaw Pact (i.e. Soviet Red Army-occupied) countries.

Blogger Boaty Bear October 07, 2019 7:08 PM  

Nuclear weapons?

What are they?

Hiroshima -uninhabitable?

Nagasaki - (largest Christian population in Japan at the time?) - Uninhabitable?

Or do they both have larger populations now than then?

How about Chernoble? - Uninhabitable? Maybe Someone could tell the wildlife.

Nuclear Bombs? Or just Bloody BIG bombs?

.. I dunno?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 07, 2019 7:17 PM  

Boaty Bear wrote:I dunno?
Tru Dat.

Blogger Doktor Jeep October 07, 2019 7:26 PM  

I get the impression that the GOP has been "pro gun" only to keep the USA from falling into a civil war and hence meaning no more troops and money for Israeli interests if that happens.
Maybe in Constitution 2.0 we can see a law against dual citizenship.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 07, 2019 7:31 PM  

DeepThought wrote:Turks have lost over 50,000 civilian deaths due to terrorist attacks.

What have the Armenians lost? Screw the Turks. Let's hope the Kurds finally manage to give the Turks what every mohammedan deserves, but not with our help, because none of it is our business.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 07, 2019 7:33 PM  

CarpeOro wrote:- Kurds were heavily involved in the slaughter of the Armenians also. It wasn't just the Ottoman army, it was also many of the surrounding ethnic groups including Azerbaijanis and Kurds.

Mohammedans are mohammedans. They are all Satan worshipers, and all our enemies.

Blogger Ranger October 07, 2019 7:36 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Oswald wrote:nearly drove the Turks into the arms of the Russians.

Well, crazy takes all forms, I guess. I have to confess that's one alternate reality I never expected to see someone claim with a straight face. I'll bet you heard that from some "expert" on Fox.

Russians and Turks have hated each other since at least the days of the Seljuq Empire 1000 years ago.

The only time they can be said to have allied in all that time is when Russia was a vassal state of the (((Bolsheviks))).

Russia considers herself the legitimate heir to the Eastern Empire and at the back of every dealing between Russia and Turkey is the desire to reclaim the Bosporus and the Hagia Sophia.


I was in Turkey from 2013 to 2017, and, though all that you've said is true, it is also true that relations between Turkey and Russia, who had been severely strained after the downing of the Russian jet in 2015, considerably improved right after the coup attempt against Erdoğan.

Not only a lot of the blame for the coup has been laid at the US door, many people believe that it was the Russians who were able to give Erdoğan some forewarning. Relations improved so much that not even the murder of the Russian ambassador in the end of 2016 soured them

Erdoğan is a crafty politician who will cut whatever deals it takes to stay in power in the short term, not caring too much about the long-term prospects of Turkey. Having been abandoned by Obama, he turned to those who would help him, which happened to be Putin (who needed at least neutrality from Turkey to better conduct operations in Syria).

So that's why Russian-Turkish relations are now better, and why US-Turkish relations soured so much. Though I suppose that some of it might be ascribed also to things like flying the rainbow flag at the embassy, or appointing an openly gay man as Consul-General in Istanbul (who would attend official events with his young poofter)

Blogger English Tom October 07, 2019 7:42 PM  

@Maniacprovost

Kurdistan is code for greater Israel.

Blogger Ranger October 07, 2019 7:43 PM  

In the long run, Turkey is in a tough spot, though. As long as the Western alliance was not openly globohomo, their best bet was pretending to be quasi-Western. It seems unlikely that if the West throws off globohomo with some sort of Christian revival that the Turks will still be able to pull that act off.

And, of course, in the long run, they can't expect much mercy from the Russians.

I suppose their best bet is something like China's junior partner in the region. Even though that has issues because of the whole Uyghur situation in China, I think the Ottoman Turks will abandon their eastern brethren if necessary to maintain good relations with China.

Blogger English Tom October 07, 2019 7:44 PM  

@Welsh Woodsman

The only rational thing is to hang the traitors in public and leave their corpses to rot, while dispossessing their families of everything and then throwing them out onto the street.

Blogger Von Zeitgeist October 07, 2019 7:50 PM  

"The Kurds" are not equal to PKK. Those of us who have fought with them against ISIS and AQ appreciate the fact that they could at least be trusted to try to keep their word to you, esp when compared to Arabs. I was there as a gov't contractor and later as a volunteer medic so keep your "pick up your rifle" BS to yourselves. As an Arabic speaker, I was deeply aware of the difference between them and our adversaries and also understand the romanticization of them by our military. We seem to consistently make and abandon allies, which is wrong. Does that mean we should be involved in making an independent Kurdish state or defend them against everyone forever? That is a question worth chewing on, but bringing up the Armenian genocide 100 years later in defense or attack of that proposition is stupid.

Blogger English Tom October 07, 2019 7:51 PM  

@Longtime Lurker

There's a bigger picture. Erdogan will certainly move into Syria, and Erdogan also wants Assad gone. If Turkey seeks to consolidate a large swathe of northern Syria sooner or later it will bring on conflict with Syria. I believe Iran will be forced to confront Turkey to protect Assad, and it will be game on.

Of course, from Israel's POV, such a scenario is blissful, and such a clash will help bring about a Kurdistan, sorry, I mean a greater Israel. See: Oded Yinon plan.

Blogger Ranger October 07, 2019 7:53 PM  

Are the Kurds going to help with the Aztec invasion? No? Then what do you need them for?

Blogger English Tom October 07, 2019 7:55 PM  

@Deep Thought

It's not that people are supporting communists, this is all about grand geo strategic designs. Kurdistan, if/when created, will just happen to be in the way of a major Chinese OBOR project. Whoever controls Kurdistan, controls this project. Israel seeks to create and control Kurdistan.

Blogger Unknown October 07, 2019 8:36 PM  

Re: Comment 24.
You nailed my thoughts exactly.
We need our troops home, and not scattered to the Four Corners of the Earth.

Blogger Jandolin October 07, 2019 8:40 PM  

I don't understand this western fascination with the Kurds

It is more accurate to say Jewish/Zionist fascination with the Kurds.
Zionists/Israel want a Kurdish state to give Israel a military advantage over Iraq and possibly Iran. Late Bill Safire of NYT and CBS 60 minutes were zealots of the Kurdish cause.

More information here

Pulling Out of Syria Means Ditching Kurds And Israelis

https://forward.com/opinion/432783/what-trumps-withdrawal-from-syria-means-for-the-kurds-and-for-israel/

Blogger The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey October 07, 2019 8:45 PM  

Some asshat on the National Security Council has leaked his appraisal of Trump's move to Newsweek. It's incredible, he's out there bashing Trump. Truly impalement on spikes is too kind a fate for these treacherous swamplings.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother October 07, 2019 8:48 PM  

Von Zeitgeist,

Is that really a hard answer? Kurdistan will never happen, since it straddles Iraq, Syria, Turkey, and Iran. That's a fucking tar baby right there. Why don't they all pick up and move to Iraqi Kurdistan? That has the best chance of happening.

We can't defend them forever. We obligate ourselves, our children, grandchildren, and money to do that. Send them a shitload of guns and ammo and wish them the best.

Blogger Derrick Bonsell October 07, 2019 8:48 PM  

The Russian Navy is a joke, but we don't really know what Turkey's goals are here.

Also Erdogan is less anti-Kurd than many of his predecessors. This isn't about ethnic enmity.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 07, 2019 9:04 PM  

One Belt One Road has all the credibility of an uninhabited, 3-year old Chinese million-home city that's already falling apart.

It's nothing but a pathetic attempt at a dog-and-pony show, and nothing else.

To have any credibility, they would have to keep the yuan stable. Yet the Chinese are addicted to using currency manipulations. Any country that can and will deliberately tank their own currency for the purpose of harming the businesses of other countries can just as easily goose it right back up, too.

It's like the Han are an earthly incarnation of the species on the planet which was enveloped in a dust cloud, and wasn't even aware of their own existance, and devoted their lives to peace, love, and harmony. Until one night a space ship crashed on the planet. And they changed their outlook to that of peace, love, harmony, and the destruction of all other life in the universe.

In this case, the space ship is the internet and satellite TV.

But enough of that tangent.

The Chinese can barely handle internal logistics, and still don't have a navy that's worth anything -- they can't even challenge a navy full of idiots that steer into the path of fully-lit tankers more than 10x their own displacement, in clear weather with 15-mile visibility.

Technologically, they don't innovate anything. All they do is copy from others. Their R&D is literally "go steal someone else's stuff and copy it. IF you can't steal it, then buy it, but make sure you're pulling off some sort of swindle in the process."

Which means their war-fighting equipment will never exceed ours. At best, they can only match it. You can't better something if all you're doing is monkey-see, monkey-copy, without EVER doing the research to understand exactly why whatever you're copying has the particular specs that it has, because you don't know if your change is going to make things closer to optimal or move it farther away from the optimal value.

And somehow they're going to manage a rebuilding of the overland Silk Road trade routes?

Seagoing logistics (especially commercial) are far simpler than overland logistics for even a single path of 20+ sovereign countries, and they can barely handle that, seeing how for the last 500 years, they utterly ignored anything having to do with the sea beyond coastal steamers and fishing boats.

They had a minor, somewhat modern for it's time navy in the 1880's. Resource-poor Japan put most of on the bottom of the sea, and what the Japs didn't sink, they took back to Japan as prizes of war. And why? Partly because the Han rule the place, and the Han are an inland tribe.

The Han are biting off more than they can chew. Their project might have worked 1200 years ago, when national borders didn't exist, and most local leaders were willing to swear allegiance of both themselves and their province to whomever was the most militarily and economically powerful within the next larger-sized region. Moving forces through terrain outside your own sphere of influence could be done as long as your didn't ruffle feathers. Very few countries are going to let the Chinese set up Chinese military bases every X kilometers along the so-called OBOR routes.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 07, 2019 9:04 PM  

Longtime Lurker wrote:@66: That figures. Because inside every Israeli a Kurd is screaming to get out. /s

The Israelis have taken up cannibalism, then? Not sure I'm surprised.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 07, 2019 9:10 PM  

@127

"The Russian Navy is a joke, but we don't really know what Turkey's goals are here."

The Russian navy is suitable for Russia's purposes (Russia has every strategic and economically important mineral and resource available in quantity within it's own borders. Russia doesn't need even a penny of international trade, and therefore, has no reason to maintain the kind of navy that's needed for an international-trade based economy like ours is and always has been. Russia's navy has only one primary purpose -- to deter anybody from doing anything significantly harmful to Russia. So they have attack subs to take out attacking naval groups, and nuke missile subs to keep a credible, relatively unattackable retaliatory nuke-strike capability.

The Russian navy is totally inadequate for our purposes, or even moreso those of the U.K. On the other hand, our navy is entirely too large for Russia's purposes, and if they made a navy like our navy, they would be foolishly pissing a lot of money down the drain.

Blogger Hammerli 280 October 07, 2019 9:19 PM  

This is part of the pivot to the Pacific that Obama talked big about...and did nothing to achieve.

With fracking giving us energy independence, the Middle East is no longer the critical theater it once was. The Pacific, with the Chinese engaged in a rerun of Wilhelmine Germany, IS critical.

And we need the money to build ships. To fix the ships we have. To buy and operate naval aircraft.

Blogger English Tom October 07, 2019 9:41 PM  

@Dirk Manly

Check out the EAEU (Eurasian Economic Union). Watch it grow over the coming years, watch Astana become the Brussels of the East. If this union continues to grow then the OBOR project(s) become much more easily realised.

Blogger English Tom October 07, 2019 9:43 PM  

@Dirk Manly

Don't forget those long range precision guided missiles that are carried on those Russian ships. Those very formidable missiles.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 07, 2019 9:43 PM  

Von Zeitgeist wrote:they could at least be trusted to try to keep their word to you, esp when compared to Arabs.
Faint praise indeed. It is difficult to imagine fainter.

Does that mean we should be involved in making an independent Kurdish state or defend them against everyone forever? That is a question worth chewing on ...

Like hell it is. There is only one answer, an unequivocal "Fuck NO!" That you refuse to answer your question belies the answer you would give.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 07, 2019 9:51 PM  

Dirk Manly wrote:The Russian navy is totally inadequate for our purposes, or even moreso those of the U.K.
In more direct language, Russia has no desire to "project power" by threatening the population of distant countries.

English Tom wrote:Erdogan will certainly move into Syria, and Erdogan also wants Assad gone.
Erdogan will not "move into Syria". He will mount punitive raids into Kurdish territory in Syria, with prior notice to the Assad Government. Syria has one ally that Turkey dare not antagonize.

Blogger Ken Prescott October 07, 2019 9:56 PM  

"Don't forget those long range precision guided missiles that are carried on those Russian ships. Those very formidable missiles."

Not really. They're shiny, I'll give you that, but they're also part of a system of systems, and the Russians haven't maintained the dull, boring pieces of that system of systems.

Blogger sammibandit October 07, 2019 10:00 PM  

Syria has one ally that Turkey dare not antagonize.

But Snidley, for the past 3 years Turkey and Russia are allies. Haven't you been paying attention? He was there!

Blogger Von Zeitgeist October 07, 2019 10:02 PM  

@126 I get it. That doesn't make it easy to abandon those who have fought with you, even if it really brings home the point that alliances should be chosen way more carefully than we do and with more long term issues in mind. Am I willing to go back and fight for an independent Kurdistan? Nope. Do I think the US has interests in keeping contacts open with various minorities in the area? Yes, though the need is considerably less than it once was. Are US interests better served with supporting Turkey over Kurds, or simply declaring a pox on both? I don't know anymore. Isolationism seems too simple and appealing an answer, so I am always looking to see what I've missed.

Blogger Frank Brady October 07, 2019 10:04 PM  

Iran is not the enemy even though Washington overthrew its democratically elected president and installed its puppet, the brutal Shah.

Blogger Emmanuel October 07, 2019 10:32 PM  

"The most idiotic thing about the mainstream narrative here is that it wasn't the US military that defeated ISIS in the first place, it was Syria, Russia, Iran, and Hezbollah."

I'll just leave this here:

https://youtu.be/FjA-febk1uQ?t=1952

And add that the US also had a hand in their defeat, despite Vox's misguided downplayism. Just because the US established ISIS and was effectively their airforce under the Obama regime doesn't change the fact that, once the GE got in, the goals changed and the stance of the US was to eliminate ISIS and the other deep state actors in the country and to that end, they did, in fact, win and have a hand in that victory. Changing sides in the middle of a war and being at the victor's table because of that is a thing, and you'd think Vox would know considering his affinity for Italian history, and especially medieval Italian history.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 07, 2019 10:42 PM  

Emmanuel wrote:And add that the US also had a hand in their defeat, despite Vox's misguided downplayism.
WE didn't just establish ISIS, we paid them and provided them weapons, supplies and ammunition throughout the entire adventure there, until Trump put an end to it. Isis had lots of nominal friends, and lots of man power, but nobody in the mideast except Israel was willing to provide material support, until John McCain's smart-enough-to-fool-the-journalists use of intermediaries to funnel supplies to them.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 07, 2019 10:51 PM  

@132


OBOR can only actually work within Southeast Asia, and to other countries that border China, such as North Korea, and Mongolia. (Which is to say, the desert plateau Mongolia, not the Mongolia outline on Chinese maps, which extends DEEPLY into India).

OBOR will never be functional past the borders of Russia and India. The Indians and the Chinese abhor each other. The ONLY reason the Chinese didn't revolt against Indian troops being used in the China-Burma-India theater of operations INSIDE China is because the country was still ALSO in a state of civil war, AND the Japanese were slaughtering Chinese a city at a time, AND because the Indians, operating under British officers, were willing to kill Japs without causing too much harm to the Chinese AND last but not least, because the Chinese government and military was neither strong or wealthy enough to keep the Indian troops out. And the Chinese really appreciated the effectiveness of the Ghurkas.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 07, 2019 10:53 PM  

@133

"Don't forget those long range precision guided missiles that are carried on those Russian ships. Those very formidable missiles."

See Russian nuke missile submarines.
The Russian missile ships are just there for "show of force" but, compared to something like a Kilo, Oscar, or Alpha class submarine, their contribution to the Russian navy's primary mission (to deter amphibious invasion) is minimal.

Blogger VFM #7634 October 07, 2019 11:08 PM  

VFM #7634 wrote:
They're still butthurt at us over Mossadegh. (Thanks, CIA, you @#$%s.) Eventually you do have to fight someone who never forgives you.

Do you actually know any Persians? Cause I know a few. They're mad about the last 40 years of the US doing everything it could to impoverish and/or destroy them.


@Snidely
Maybe that's true for common Persians, but the Islamic Revolution, the present Islamic Republic, and their ruling Ayatollahs have anti-Americanism basically built into them. In fact, I'd say they're considerably worse than North Korea.

Blogger Korbin Ransley October 07, 2019 11:09 PM  

I support the Kurds and think the empire should keep its word and protect and support its allies. Is that bad policy? Should a stance like this be taken only cynically and abandoned when its inconvenient?

If it's not worth imperial blood and treasure maybe the legion stays home instead of jumping in and out of these conflicts.

If there are anymore "not our problems" involving other countries should we make that clear now? especially ones we have defense pacts with? If its not our business perhaps we shouldn't make anymore such pacts.

I'm reminded of foreign slave labor, cheap imports and mass immigration. Followed by concerns and complaints about the predictable outcome of such policies. Policies going on for decades.

Not blaming anyone here for western foreign and immigration policy. Maybe it has to do with a disconnect between the common folk and the establishment elite. Do Russia and China have similar issues with foreign policy?

Blogger ZhukovG October 07, 2019 11:47 PM  


No nation has friends, only interests.

Charles de Gaulle

Blogger tublecane October 08, 2019 12:01 AM  

Kurds. What, are they sitting on secret stores of vibranium? No, they're just pawns no regular person knows or cares about.

@145- Back when the Empire was more powerful, in the WWII and Cold War eras, we abandoned allies all the time. Even when we didn't have to. So did our mistress Britain, a.k.a. Perfidious Ablbion

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella October 08, 2019 12:07 AM  

all's ya'll's that think you can randomly throw a war halfway around the world using American troops for some vague moral or humanitarian reason: please remember, these young men have mothers and fathers. The mothers are skeptical of war, and their fathers have sense. Nobody is really having giant Malthusian- party time families. No one is believing the clown show anymore.

And, frankly, the youtube stars help: young men aren't believing the clown-show this time because they are getting information, too.

So, screw the entire rest of the world. They can use their own young people, if they think it's that important to throw a war.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 08, 2019 2:19 AM  

VFM #7634 wrote:Maybe that's true for common Persians, but the Islamic Revolution, the present Islamic Republic, and their ruling Ayatollahs have anti-Americanism basically built into them. In fact, I'd say they're considerably worse than North Korea.
Again, how many Persians do you know?
It's odd that you will watch a news report on a subject you know about and exclaim loudly about what a crock of shit it is. But when they explain to you how a group of people on the opposite side of the world are plotting every day to kill you and destroy the world so their God who lives in the bottom of a well can at last vindicate their shame, you think it's 100% factual.

Blogger Boaty Bear October 08, 2019 2:53 AM  

All you've done is confirm what the revered VFM said!

Blogger Boaty Bear October 08, 2019 2:55 AM  

Nor do you.

Blogger Boaty Bear October 08, 2019 2:59 AM  

All overseas wars since at least WW1 are the Cabal thinning the herds of Good K Selected stock.

Worldwide slavery via regression to the mean!

Blogger Paul M October 08, 2019 3:02 AM  

The wars in the middle east are not about religion. They are race wars. The split in Isalm, into Arab (Sunni) and Persian (Shiïte) demonstrates the fact. It's not really about doctrine - it's about race. Turk vs Kurd, Jew vs Everyone Else. They have all been killing one another for six millenia, and the neither the USA nor anyone else is going to stop it.

Blogger VFM #7634 October 08, 2019 6:56 AM  

Again, how many Persians do you know?
It's odd that you will watch a news report on a subject you know about and exclaim loudly about what a crock of shit it is. But when they explain to you how a group of people on the opposite side of the world are plotting every day to kill you and destroy the world so their God who lives in the bottom of a well can at last vindicate their shame, you think it's 100% factual.


I'm going by how the government of Iran has been dealing with Trump, versus how Kim Jong Un has. The latter is at least willing to talk to him. The former turned up their nose at him the day he was elected. That tells me all I need to know.

Blogger Avalanche October 08, 2019 10:41 AM  

@119 "but bringing up the Armenian genocide 100 years later in defense or attack of that proposition is stupid."

Gee, I wonder (((who))) we learned THAT technique from?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 08, 2019 11:28 AM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Again, how many Persians do you know?

It's odd that you will watch a news report on a subject you know about and exclaim loudly about what a crock of shit it is. But when they explain to you how a group of people on the opposite side of the world are plotting every day to kill you and destroy the world so their God who lives in the bottom of a well can at last vindicate their shame, you think it's 100% factual.


Snidely, I knew Persians during my first stint in college, shortly after the embassy occupation. Fun drinking buddies.

I had culturally mohammedan office mates during my second college career - secular Turks, mostly. I was a new Christian. We had long talks about religion, and they told me what they knew about mohammedan hermenutics.

I have read their Koran, and there is no doubt that they are plotting to kill or enslave us all. If not, they are infidels. Death to the infidel!

The best lies have a core of truth, so of course the liars tell us that the group of mohammedans they hate are plotting to kill us; that's the core of truth. The liars then tell us that the other group of mohammedan Satan-worshipers are our buddies, bestest allies ever, second only to the Israelis; that's the lie they wrap around the core of truth.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 08, 2019 11:43 AM  

Korbin Ransley wrote:I support the Kurds and think the empire should keep its word and protect and support its allies. Is that bad policy?

It's treason to our nation. Is treason bad?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 08, 2019 11:47 AM  

VFM #7634 wrote:I'm going by how the government of Iran has been dealing with Trump, versus how Kim Jong Un has. The latter is at least willing to talk to him. The former turned up their nose at him the day he was elected. That tells me all I need to know.
The Iranian government is (mostly) republican, and (mostly) reflects the values and desires of the citizens. The N. Korean Government is a brutal dictatorship that ruthlessly suppresses even the slightest hint of political deviance.

But Fox News, amirite?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 08, 2019 11:47 AM  

Dirk Manly wrote:... the Russian navy's primary mission (to deter amphibious invasion) ...

Amphibious invasion? Really? Who has that many ice breakers? Seriously, it's hard to believe that Russia worries much about amphibious invasion. If you took Vladivostok, you'd be hurting and the Russians wouldn't.

Blogger SciVo October 08, 2019 3:30 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Von Zeitgeist wrote:they could at least be trusted to try to keep their word to you, esp when compared to Arabs.

Faint praise indeed. It is difficult to imagine fainter.


VD's charity run was less flamboyant than Liberace.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 08, 2019 4:08 PM  

You left out the word "slightly".

Blogger Korbin Ransley October 08, 2019 5:15 PM  

@157 "...our nation" You're Black too? 8^)

Treason is bad sir. I believe they have a definition of it spelled out in the Constitution.

I don't think helping White South Africans would be Treasonous. Maybe it has something to do with likeness proximity and the ability to help. Foreign affairs are tricky I guess. Unintended consequences, tribal alliances and enmity, cost vs. impact and all that.

Blogger VFM #7634 October 08, 2019 5:34 PM  

The Iranian government is (mostly) republican, and (mostly) reflects the values and desires of the citizens.

Sure, about things the Ayatollah doesn't care about. But Iran is in fact ultimately a dictatorship under the Ayatollah, who again, still has a bug up his butt about what our rogue CIA did to Mossadegh. If the Ayatollah didn't exist and we were just trying to deal with Rouhani, then maybe your statement would be accurate. But if he doesn't want something to happen, it won't. In this case, a reasonable rapproachment with us.

Just because they're anti-Zionist doesn't mean they're good, or even nationalist. Ahmadinejad, like Qadhafi, made a statement that our country belongs to everyone -- flat-out globalism. And the fact they're if anything nastier to Trump, our first non-globalist president in I don't know how long, than they were to our previous globalist rulers, is another big indication to me that they're not anywhere close to being on the "right" side.

Ultimately, the current Iranian regime strikes me more as Muslim Alt-Retards. I'd prefer we just get out of the region and let them stew, but if we "have to" deal with them, I wouldn't be at all sorry to see the Islamic Republic be pushed into economic collapse and overthrown.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 08, 2019 6:53 PM  

VFM #7634 wrote:Sure, about things the Ayatollah doesn't care about. But Iran is in fact ultimately a dictatorship under the Ayatollah, who again, still has a bug up his butt about what our rogue CIA did to Mossadegh.
No Khameni is not a dictator. He is a very powerful leader, but probably has less political authority than Putin, though certainly more than Trump.
You obviously know nothing whatever of Iran, or Persians. Doubling down on your assertions without basis in fact is the clear sign of a halfwit.
I would suggest you stop talking and stop revealing your stupidity, but, it's not only too late, you're obviously well beyond that.

Blogger VFM #7634 October 08, 2019 8:06 PM  

Doubling down on your assertions without basis in fact is the clear sign of a halfwit.

Okay, enlighten me as to your superior knowledge about what's going on. I'm listening.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 08, 2019 11:24 PM  

VFM #7634 wrote:Just because they're anti-Zionist doesn't mean they're good, or even nationalist. Ahmadinejad, like Qadhafi, made a statement that our country belongs to everyone -- flat-out globalism.

I would expect a Persian nationalist to be anti-American, since the American Empire has been anti-Persian. That doesn't make him globalist. After all, he didn't call for eliminating all borders, just ours.

Blogger Wario's Mart October 09, 2019 2:26 PM  

I'm curious. How far does nationalist military policy extend? If say, Australia or New Zealand were attacked by China in the Pacific, or Japan - would the United States intervene? Is that situation different from the situation with the Kurds?

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