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Saturday, November 23, 2019

4GW in the USA

A military genius warns of what will happen if the Deep State gets its way:
As I have said many times, Fourth Generation war is at root a contest for legitimacy.  On one side is the state. On the other is a vast array of alternate primary loyalties: religion, race, tribe, gang, and locality, among others.  Around the world, the contest is going poorly for the state as a growing number of people shift their primary loyalty to one of the many alternatives, for which they are willing to fight.

Washington does not perceive it, absorbed as it is in its own struggles for power and money, but the same contest is going on in this country.  So far, to our great benefit, it has remained on the peripheries. Urban police know they are confronting it in the form of ethnically-based gangs, which are illegal business enterprises that fight.  But the mass of the American people appear still loyal to the state.

The appearance is, I think, deceptive.  On both the Left and the Right, doubts about the legitimacy of the federal government are growing.  Mostly, the doubts are about the legitimacy of the current President, although polls show public perception of Congress is also strongly negative.  There is no question many on the Left regard President Trump as illegitimate. Should a hard-Left figure such as Warren win in 2020, the Right will doubt her legitimacy.  But considering the current President illegitimate is different from thinking the state itself has lost its legitimacy.

Impeachment could change that.  President Trump’s supporters regard his election as proof their voices can be heard, that their interests will be considered in Washington.  They know that to virtually all Democrats and some Republicans, they are “unpersons”. Why? Because they are White, male, or non-feminist female, straight, and mostly Christian.  They are also struggling economically, which means they are not contributors to politicians’ campaigns. The coastal elites dismiss them as rubes and hicks inhabiting “flyover land”.  The Democratic Party, which has embraced the ideology of cultural Marxism, considers them all inherently evil “oppressors” fit only to kiss the feet of blacks, immigrants, gays, feminists, etc., PC’s sainted “victims” groups.

Again, should a Warren win in 2020, President Trump’s supporters will not consider her (or him) a legitimate President.  But if the unholy alliance between Democrats and the Deep State succeeds in driving President Trump from office through impeachment or some other means, that will be a very different story.  At that point, the message to President Trump’s supporters will be, “Your votes don’t matter, because even if you elect a President, we will drive him from office and reduce you to a silent serfdom.  You and your views are entitled to no representation. You are and will remain ‘unpersons.’”

At that point, in the vast electoral sea that is red America, the legitimacy of the system itself, i.e., the state, will be brought into serious question.  And when that happens, the chance of Fourth Generation war here on a large scale will rise dramatically. When you tell people they cannot achieve representation through ballots, they start to think about doing it with bullets.
The Deep State is playing an incredibly dangerous game here and has been for some time. The thing is, no matter how it turns out, they are not going to win. Messrs. Van Creveld and Lind seldom see eye to eye politically, so when they are both seeing the same danger on the horizon, it behooves one to pay very close attention.

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109 Comments:

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 23, 2019 7:28 AM  

The result of undermining peoples' foundations is that more complex things, like state governments, must die.

Trying to cut off the roots kills the branches. Some of the roots might die, but all of the branches certainly will, as they can all be replaced.

Blogger Lovekraft November 23, 2019 7:32 AM  

Yesterday's IG Report leak of some low-level flunky altering documents better be an appetizer rather than the main course. Obama is the principle target and we should accept nothing less. Of course there's dozens of other stooges but for eight years he carried on like he was the second coming of Christ while having a hand in the extensive obstruction and treason permeating the left

Blogger Lovekraft November 23, 2019 7:38 AM  

But then there's quotes like this from Ace of Spades "I don't have much hope for the Horowitz report. It's probably Durham or nothing."

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

Blogger Mr Traumaboyy November 23, 2019 7:46 AM  

Let me alone to worship my Lord, love and take care of my family, and protect my junk. When that changes, we will utilize whatever tools we have available to protect ourselves. Blessed to be living in these interesting times. Thanks VOX!!

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 23, 2019 7:47 AM  

Sorry to Mr. Lind but this is little better than the usual conservative's bluster, "you better not cross that line buster or else." The Left always worries about legitimacy the right always assumes there is legitimacy, so the Right is always "tailgating" the Left waiting to respond and trying the usual reason/rationalizing shtick we have failed with since being booted out of Eden.

On the glass half full and getting fuller there is a small core of the Right who actually get 4GW that the legitimacy of the state is in question and that 4GW is not some stupid "Red Dawn" LARPing camping trip with a rusty POS AK-47 as intimated by the picture of some camoed up militia types Creveld posted.

Blogger Rek. November 23, 2019 7:47 AM  

How does the concept of 4gw when applied to Western Europe differ from the American scenario if it differs at all?

Ill have to take the time to read his book and familiarize myself with his work in depth.

Blogger Rek. November 23, 2019 7:50 AM  

Broadly speaking.

Blogger Uncle John's Band November 23, 2019 8:01 AM  

"How does the concept of 4gw when applied to Western Europe differ from the American scenario if it differs at all?"

It’s generally similar in that it’s all fluid, complex, non-state conflict. But the different non-state actors, social and cultural expectations, geographies, etc. means that the details will play out differently in different places.

Disruption and violence potentialis comparable, but the superficials are contextual. You can see what’s coming, but even trying localized predictions means knowing the local landscape.

He’s well worth familiarizing with.

Blogger MidnightSun November 23, 2019 8:08 AM  

This is Bolshevik Revolution 2.0. The same tactics being used here as 100 years ago. The difference now it that we are not dumb Russian peasants; we are organized, can pass information instantaneously and identify and call out the perpetrators. If it wasn't for governmental institutions (DS) being converged, Mainstream Media being Marxist stooges, and University propaganda instigated by Franklin School theory, we would have crushed these radicals decades ago. Now, we have to expose them relentlessly even isolating and attacking each of them on a daily basis through emails and social media posts to their accounts. If they get away with what they're doing to President Trump you can be assured the Civil War is inevitable. And the sad part its just what these sociopaths want!

Onward Christian Soldiers!

Blogger Shane Bradman November 23, 2019 8:10 AM  

>this is little better than the usual conservative's bluster, "you better not cross that line buster or else."

Completely missing the point. Conservatives make empty threats. Lind is calmly informing people of the potential consequences.

Blogger wreckage November 23, 2019 8:10 AM  

Woah. I thought that WAS Lind until I followed the link. As Vox says, if van Creveld and Lind are saying the same thing, only a profoundly stupid person would ignore it.

Blogger wreckage November 23, 2019 8:12 AM  

*gah, I'm an idiot, it's Lind as a guest for van Creveld. My conclusion stands.

Blogger glueballs November 23, 2019 8:18 AM  

von Crevald misses on at least one account. Not all of us are struggling financially. My household has never dipped below seven figures since the early 2000's, not even 2008-09 when my business imploded due to unanticipated clawbacks and dissolution because my wife's income surged radically then. We paid cash for our home in the 90's and do not owe debt.

Our concern is stablility and direction. We have been ruthlessly strip mined for assets by government and feel like whipped mules. Our fleecing went to grifters, not the folks purportedly we serve. We have witnessed more and more of our GenX contemporaries redpilling and the latest impeachment kabuki theatre has won over converts.

But Martin gets a lot correct for a foreigner, I'll concede.

Blogger The Cooler November 23, 2019 8:21 AM  

That someone like Elizabeth Warren could legitimately win the presidency is, itself, a trigger. Surely Lind knows this?

Blogger Uncle John's Band November 23, 2019 8:21 AM  

"Not all of us are struggling financially."

Imagine the difference between the personal and the statistical. It's easy if you try.

Blogger Rek. November 23, 2019 8:25 AM  

Lind, not Van C. How do you make ur money?

"Not all of us are struggling financially."

No comment necessary.

Blogger glueballs November 23, 2019 8:28 AM  

@16. Uncle JB

Both those who remained behind in my rustbelt home town and us who left for opportunity have never felt better financially as now for the most part from what I see. Our households are basking in the illusion, the low end from my town who went on to become teachers and the like retired in their 50's to become gentlemen fruit farmers for example. It won't be until the fake pensions etc. implode they'll feel the pain, but many I keep in touch with see the writing on the wall. Two cents.

Blogger kmbr November 23, 2019 8:33 AM  

** Not all of us are struggling financially.**

Neither was Nein Chang when she suddenly had lotsa new housemates and a whole new way of life.

Blogger Ransom Smith November 23, 2019 8:38 AM  

That someone like Elizabeth Warren could legitimately win the presidency
That's a new definition of legitimate I haven't heard before.
She has zero likeability factor and would never win a national election through a valid election.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 23, 2019 8:41 AM  

Thomas Chittum wrote what should be in the core canon of American collapse with his monograph "Civil War II" related from his experiences as a merc for the deep state's operations in Yugoslavia attached to the Croatians for Operation Storm, and Thomas always wrote that Creveld's "Transformation of War" was his intellectual touch stone. I think the two men even exchanged some pleasantries in person.

Yeah I'll give comment #11 some cred but I'll stick with my assumption and perhaps Mr. Lind would even agree that he himself is most comfortable to be within the OODA loop as set by the Left commenting on what the Left is doing instead of being with the group that drives the OODA loop. Mr. Lind has a blog and at an appropriate time I will ask him that myself, though he does not respond in the comments.

Blogger anorganicbear November 23, 2019 8:50 AM  

@10: The difference now it that we are not dumb Russian peasants

They are doing a pretty good job of mass-importing dumb third-world peasants that seem more or less happy to keep driving off the cliff en masse.

The real win if they remove Trump or continue blocking his purported agenda will be a growing red-state identity and independence movement. Otherwise it's just Americans killing Americans for the profit of bankers and arms dealers.

Blogger IAMSpartacus0000 November 23, 2019 8:59 AM  

As Vox has pointed out, Trump is the reprieve. It is not yet a solution unless he wins 2020 AND we get a good follow up.

Otherwise Red counties will be disenfranchised and question legitimacy. We are already seeing independents thinking the impeachment is wrong. Some are moving to red team. But that is not as important as those members of red who are moving to the Ultra side. Once the ultra element hits critical mass all bets are off and bullets will fly.

That will happen sooner if impeachment happens.

Blogger Thad Tuiol November 23, 2019 9:06 AM  

@14 Mr. "I'm allright Jack"

When the power goes down and the law of the jungle reigns, your money will mean jack shit. Fuck you and your shekel smugness.

Blogger Bad Attitude November 23, 2019 9:14 AM  

Like #9 and #23, I think bullets are in our future. Most of the blue team seems to have forgotten that Obama was heralded as gun salesman of the year eight years running. And, gun sales continue to be very healthy:
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf

Blogger The War for the West November 23, 2019 9:16 AM  

This is why I come here, as it's quite hard to come by actual intellectual thought about our society and how it's evolving on the Right that isn't dimwitted blather. So, first, thanks - even though I don't agree with numerous other positions you take.

What I wanted to add is that I think institutional control is far more important than popular support. I watch the new generation coming up and the mass of immigrants and I realize they will just change the electorate out and shape the electorate if they don't like what we think.

Creveld conjures up the image of cities being laid siege to, and insofar as that goes, he's correct about their dependencies. But as I gamed this out in my analyses, I saw the Mexican Mafia, Crips, Bloods, Russian, Estonian, etc etc organized crime actually organizing and facing off with the rural militias.

I think they left wants a triggering event. I believe the hard Leftists such as Warrren are eager for an insurrection that justifies the implementation of extraordinary, emergency powers - this is how the left consolidates power.

Last. I think the working class/dependend class has it too good and the middle class definitely feels prosperous by any standard - such people do not revolt. People look at Trump's election and seem to forget the arithmetic of it. He barely eeked out the solid electoral victory he achieved. Here's a fun fact: 4 million people who voted for Obama didn't come out and vote at all in 2016. Why? Because the media convinced them Hillary was so far ahead they didn't need to vote. Lol.

I think the likely sequence of events is Dem victory 2020, likely Warren. The election is the most corrupt in modern times. Dems across the country play every dirty trick in the book, and take the senate while holding the house. In 2020 more than 5 million more immigrants or children of immigrants are eligible to vote than 2016 - and the Dems are massively organized to register them and recruit them and get them to vote.

The most interesting decision will be the military/SOG vs Army kind of split. Generally, the side that gets the military and the cops o their side wins a revolution. It's easy to say they are mostly right wing, but if you talk to them and if you know cops and military folks, you'll know it's not that simple. Many who might be conservative would not violate their oath, even if they disagree with the policy. Many may think revolution is a step too far.

I think we lose. I think the Dems then essentially set the U.S. up to be part of the Chinese company store network and ultimately, harvest our organs for the global elite without a 2nd thought. We've already lost that war, in my estimation. We have lost our will to fight, our sense of who we are. Saddest is listening to most of my fellow rightwingers gibbering nonsense, thinking I'm with "them". No, I'm not...

Blogger The Cooler November 23, 2019 9:22 AM  

She has zero likeability factor and would never win a national election through a valid election.

Your conjecture has nothing to do with the possibility of her legally winning the presidency, i.e. her being a legitimate president.

That's a new definition of legitimate I haven't heard before.

Then you never knew what it was in the first place.

Lind's use of this word, "legitimate," is similarly clunky.

Blogger MidnightSun November 23, 2019 9:23 AM  

@26 Grow a set and get it on the fight! Or else curl up in a blanket with a big bucket of popcorn and wait for the knock on the door!

Blogger bodenlose Schweinerei November 23, 2019 9:24 AM  

if you know cops and military folks, you'll know . . . many may think revolution is a step too far.

Cops and military dudes are aggressively conformist and would have made fine slave catchers? Who wudda thunk it?

Blogger Brett baker November 23, 2019 9:27 AM  

Glad to hear you love Big Sister, Mr. Smith! Blackpill much?

Blogger David Ray Milton November 23, 2019 9:33 AM  

Agree. The domino effect in escalation that would ensue from an impeachment would be unprecedented in this country. It’s already a first-world coup with all of Trump’s allies that have been arrested on petty charges. The small-scale riots would start and then some dummy politician would go for the gun grab, and I think that’s when the mayhem would begin in earnest.

Blogger Ransom Smith November 23, 2019 9:40 AM  

Your conjecture has nothing to do with the possibility of her legally winning the presidency
New definition of "legal" as well.
Don't argue the semantics.
She won't win thanks to a true counting of votes. A Warren presidency would be the very definition of illegitimate by technical definition and would further serve to show the divide between the Deep State and the general populace.

Blogger dienw November 23, 2019 9:42 AM  

@26
Generally, the side that gets the military and the cops o their side wins a revolution.
The Navy may not be on our side; for there is a pattern developing:
1) The secretary of the navy is in open defiance of President Trump:
Defying Trump, Navy Secretary backs effort to revoke tridents from Eddie Gallagher and other SEALs
2) Virginia Dem. Representative Elaine Luria who wore her Navy uniform in an ad:
Virginia Democratic representative Elaine Luria was in "clear violation" of both House ethics rules and a Department of Defense directive when she highlighted her military service in an ad touting her role in pushing for the impeachment of President Donald Trump, according to a watchdog complaint.
The Foundation for Accountability and Civic Trust (FACT), a non-profit government watchdog, filed an ethics complaint with the Office of Congressional Ethics on Thursday. The complaint says Luria did not include the necessary disclosure in the ad, which highlighted her career in the U.S. Navy and featured her and other troops in uniform.

3) Vindman: wore his Navy uniform to the Schiff Star Chamber while testifying. Wearing the uniform in such environment requires permission from his commanding officers.
4) No link. I read yesterday that the Navy Pacific Fleet commander has disobeyed Trump and is training his fleet with the Chinese. (Others here may have more info on this)

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 23, 2019 9:45 AM  

My guess is that Trump and his trusted inner circle of advisers think the OODA is an obscure bra size, but I will also give him credit that he might instinctively know he has to drive the the debate/issue and he has chosen the right enemies, white and jewish prog Deep State looters.

Because nothing demoralizes a Democratic voter like another Democratic voter, conservatives and their screeching and mewling is entertainment to a Democratic voter but another D voter threatens the split of the loot and that is serious not if some conservative whining about some crap that doesn't affect them personally.

Blogger Dave November 23, 2019 9:48 AM  

Again, should a Warren win in 2020, President Trump’s supporters will not consider her (or him) a legitimate President.

A very large percentage of Trump's supporters didn't consider Zero a legitimate president. I don't recall massive protests or even a single riot, let alone war, 4G or otherwise. The sad fact is; it will take an economic collapse with widespread food shortages and packs of people roaming the streets for survival, before the populace is ready to rise up against the derp state.

However do not fear, Warren is prepared for the coming economic crash and like our host, Warren saw the 2008 crash coming years prior to it happening and tried to warn everybody. But alas, nobody was listening. Was she a senator then? Apparently people took her about as seriously then as they view her chances of winning the presidency now. I'm pretty sure I didn't know who Warren was before 2008, by golly she's ready to save us all now though, she just needs to get elected. https://medium.com/@teamwarren/the-coming-economic-crash-and-how-to-stop-it-355703da148b

Blogger English Tom November 23, 2019 9:52 AM  

@Mr Mantra Man

Have recently read Chittum's book and I highly recommend it.

After finishing it, it became clear to me what operation Fast and Furious was all about.
Obama and Holder should hang for their treason.

Blogger anorganicbear November 23, 2019 9:56 AM  

@26 This is why it's important to start organizing at the state level NOW. We won't control the national institutions ever again thanks to demographics, but many red states are still in control of their own destinies. Really, this has already started with individual counties rejecting gun confiscations, such as in Illinois. It's a simple matter to extend this to other issues.

Blogger Damelon Brinn November 23, 2019 10:13 AM  

But as I gamed this out in my analyses, I saw the Mexican Mafia, Crips, Bloods, Russian, Estonian, etc etc organized crime actually organizing

Based on? Sounds like the Chuck Norris movie "Invasion USA." It didn't explain how all these disparate groups were able to organize and get along well enough to pull off an invasion either.

Blogger Stilicho November 23, 2019 10:19 AM  

4GW is already well under way at the moral level. We are shaping the battlefield and fighting over the moral high ground so that we will have an advantage when the conflict gets a bit more kinetic on a wide level.

Blogger Dave November 23, 2019 10:32 AM  

But if the unholy alliance between Democrats and the Deep State succeeds in driving President Trump from office through impeachment or some other means

The public impeachment "hearings" have backfired tremendously on Pelosi and Schitt to the point now POTUS and other R's have said they would welcome a Senate trial if Pelosi was crazy enough to muster the votes for articles of impeachment. POTUS, genius self-promoter and media-savvy veteran, has completely turned the impeachment circus in his favor. Most of the country see it for the political witch hunt it is and are becoming more and more sympathetic to the POTUS. Also, POTUS, has wisely taken advantage of the public's distaste to raise massive campaign contributions.

However, this whole affair does lead to interesting speculation. Suppose POTUS is somehow removed from office via political maneuvering by the derp state and D's. Would we see protests throughout the nation? What about Rodney King style riots? Takeover of TV and radio stations and other media? Thousands perhaps millions of people don't go to work for a day? Would a critical mass of people do anything but grumble?

Blogger Unknownsailor November 23, 2019 10:38 AM  

@33

It would help your case if you could accurately place what service Vindman is in.

HINT: It is not the Navy.

Blogger Unknownsailor November 23, 2019 10:41 AM  

"When you tell people they cannot achieve representation through ballots, they start to think about doing it with bullets."

I've got news for Mr. Lind, some of Trump's supporters have been thinking about doing it with bullets for a while now, and have local accountability files upon which to act.

Blogger Cataline Sergius November 23, 2019 10:42 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Cataline Sergius November 23, 2019 10:43 AM  

There was an unnerving development this week.

At this point the sensible (for values of sensible) among them are bracing themselves for another Trump win.

Consequently, the Democrats have begun laying the ground work to de-legitimize the 2020 election.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 23, 2019 10:43 AM  

"It didn't explain how all these disparate groups were able to organize and get along well enough to pull off an invasion either."

It's not that they'd necessarily team up with each other. It's that they'd organize themselves and become more cohesive in themselves.

Reality: whatever force is representing law and order at any given moment is just the most successful gang. Because they're strong and on top they can be relatively merciful and clean, as compared to drive by shootings and black market funding.

When the established power goes down, expect the illegitimate children to come out of the woodwork with claims of legitimacy. The smarter ones certainly already have established political puppets in their pockets, ready to fit onto the throne should it suddenly be found vacant. The best surviving fit gets the seat.

Blogger SciVo November 23, 2019 10:46 AM  

Having given the question a great deal of thought, the most vulnerable and despicable members of Leviathan are college professors and administrators. Once people understand that their votes don't matter, it would be easy to effectively shut down the system by which the system replicates itself. And no one will cry over some SocJus cult indoctrinators that add no value.

Blogger Cataline Sergius November 23, 2019 10:46 AM  

I think the real Phaseline: Black will be when a former president is convicted of something that requires jailtime.

When that happens, the current president (whoever that is) will have a strong motivation to NEVER leave office.

Blogger cheddarman November 23, 2019 10:49 AM  

Bro, the cultural marxists were from the frankfurt school...just sayin'

Blogger Jim November 23, 2019 10:50 AM  

dienw wrote:
The Navy may not be on our side; for there is a pattern developing:

Well, the part of the Navy that can successfully pilot a ship, anyway.

Blogger Tars Tarkas November 23, 2019 10:53 AM  

I would say a lot of Trump supporters already believe the state is illegitimate and that their votes cannot change it. The system has shut down Trump's ability to get his agenda through. They abuse everything from the courts to false sexual assault allegations to negate Trump's presidency. A successful impeachment will drag many who see it, but will not face it, over to those who see the state as no longer legitimate.

Blogger SciVo November 23, 2019 10:55 AM  

To add, it is incredibly insulting that leftist fantasies of CWII treat us as illiterate third-world peasants, mice to be distracted by the cat's paws. It seems unthinkable to them that in the event that our politics gets kinetic, we will strike directly at the cat.

Blogger Damelon Brinn November 23, 2019 10:56 AM  

It's not that they'd necessarily team up with each other. It's that they'd organize themselves and become more cohesive in themselves.

Maybe, though I think that's questionable in itself. But the key to his wargaming was that they would organize *with each other* and come at rural America as a cohesive force. That's the part that's only ever happened in the movies. I couldn't care less how internally organized the Crips are, if they're fighting with the Bloods and MS-13 and so on for control of urban neighborhoods.

Blogger dienw November 23, 2019 11:05 AM  

Thanks for the link, Vox. I enjoyed his writing style as I read a few of his essays that were linked to the original essay.

Blogger The Cooler November 23, 2019 11:11 AM  

New definition of "legal" as well.

No, it' not.

Don't argue the semantics.

I'm not.

She won't win thanks to a true counting of votes. A Warren presidency would be the very definition of illegitimate by technical definition and would further serve to show the divide between the Deep State and the general populace.

Again, your conjecture is irrelevant. I agree with your conjecture; also irrelevant.

* Lind was writing a blog post so he should be given some latitude, but one comes to expect a meticulousness from the man not present here.

* Legitimacy and validity are two different things; the perception of each two additional things.

Walk away.

Blogger dienw November 23, 2019 11:12 AM  

Unknownsailor wrote:@33

It would help your case if you could accurately place what service Vindman is in.

HINT: It is not the Navy.


I asked for more information from others; but the point remains; now stop behaving like a fucking high-schooler. If you were an adult, you would have corrected me with his correct service:
Alexander Semyon Vindman is a United States Army lieutenant colonel who serves as the Director for European Affairs for the United States National Security Council.

Blogger tyr November 23, 2019 11:25 AM  

From my personal observations, a lot of people on the right vastly overestimate how patriotic and conservative our military is. Starting with Clinton and accelerated under Obama, much of the top brass is corporatized and converged. How many top ranking generals/admirals spoke up against removal of DADT and allowing transgenders to serve? None. How many general/admiral positions are now held by affirmative action females/minorities? Just look at Vindman and realize he is not alone, in fact his superiors had to sign off on allowing him to testify to congress and even before that had to approve his package to work in the White House on the NSC.
Amongst the enlisted ranks it is not any better when one looks at the Senior Enlisted Leadership. Roughly 50%+ are affirmative action hires who's loyalty lies not with any vague concept of "America". For 8 years, Recruiters were mandated to bring in more 'quota' recruits over patriotic caucasions. I have seen whole technical MOS's/Rates go from majority white to majority minorities/women, many of them absolutely unqualified to do the job but rapidly advanced up the ranks none the less.
My point to my rambling is that if you are expecting a "Pinochet" style uprising from the military to save America, you will be very disappointed. In fact if/when the military is called upon to turn their guns on American citizens, the vast majority will do so and many will do it with glee. Any hold-outs will be rounded up and incarcerated.

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling November 23, 2019 11:28 AM  

@20 Ransom Smith:

"That someone like Elizabeth Warren could legitimately win the presidency

That's a new definition of legitimate I haven't heard before.
She has zero likeability factor and would never win a national election through a valid election."

Depends on the definition of "valid." In the spirit of the Instapundit's "Don't get cocky, kid" framing of all good election news, what if for example the cloud people after failing to impeach and convict in the Senate decide it's better to wreck the economy than allow Trump to win again? Trump's looking forward to a trial in the Senate, he'll be able to rhetorically wreck a great many of his enemies, putting everyone from Schiff to the Bidens on the stand. Imagine how desperate his enemies will be after that; my question is will they be willing to take the hit on their own pocketbooks to achieve the prize?

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling November 23, 2019 11:37 AM  

@56. tyr:

"From my personal observations, a lot of people on the right vastly overestimate how patriotic and conservative our military is. [The brass is pozzed.]

Has been since at least Vietnam when none of them spoke up. JFK and maybe LBJ had a lot to do with this by formally muzzling them before things got really hot over there.

"Amongst the enlisted ranks it is not any better when one looks at the Senior Enlisted Leadership. Roughly 50%+ are affirmative action hires who's loyalty lies not with any vague concept of "America". For 8 years, Recruiters were mandated to bring in more 'quota' recruits over patriotic caucasions. I have seen whole technical MOS's/Rates go from majority white to majority minorities/women, many of them absolutely unqualified to do the job but rapidly advanced up the ranks none the less."

How much do all those matter vs. the trigger pullers, who I'm told are still majority white through self-selection? How likely it is that the long logistics tail of the ground forces will survive such a war, and for how long?

On the other hand, see the saga of the Millennial SEALs who conspired to bring down Gallagher. How much will the Special Forces be useful for either side if they stay in organized units? The nature of "this kind of war" might make them recoil all the more, or they could shake out into sets of losers and winners as things get a lot less optional.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd November 23, 2019 11:43 AM  

Cataline Sergius wrote:I think the real Phaseline: Black will be when a former president is convicted of something that requires jailtime.

When that happens, the current president (whoever that is) will have a strong motivation to NEVER leave office.


Jerry Pournelle kept saying that's what would happen if we criminalized policy differences. Maybe jail time for actual crimes would be different. Maybe.

Blogger dienw November 23, 2019 11:44 AM  

Further to my point: From David Hodges' site:
President Trump is also facing a Navy that is in a state of mutiny against the President. They are conducting joint war games with the Chinese! This is insane and Trump has ordered this stopped, but the Navy is ignoring the order. Additionally, it is the belief of many that the Navy's provoking China with the recent incidents in the South China Sea is the Navy's own dealing, not Trump's plan. IS the Navy deliberately trying to provoke WW III without Trump's approval? It would seem so.

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling November 23, 2019 11:49 AM  

@47. Cataline Sergius

"I think the real Phaseline: Black will be when a former president is convicted of something that requires jailtime.

When that happens, the current president (whoever that is) will have a strong motivation to NEVER leave office."

An insight expected from someone who would chose a handle like yours. Traditionally, this one of the sure fire ways to end a Republic.

On the other hand, a Republic can't survive the blatant sedition of Hillary and Obama and those under them. *Perhaps* that can be addressed by putting enough of those under them in jail, while making it clear they are "unindicted co-conspirators". If Trump fails to do this, and he could have good reasons to not go very far like the Deep State making it clear to him they'll respond with an overt coup, the Republic has fallen. Then again, look at the constant love he's showing to the military.

In truth, it probably fell when the Democrats elevated criminals like Hillary and Obama so high and gave them free rein, so we can also blame the rest of the cloud people, especially the MSM, for not keeping them from crossing those fatal lines. Systems without negative feedback eventually run out of control, and the history of the last half century or so has been of removing feedback mechanisms not understood or disdained by the cloud people.

Blogger Dave November 23, 2019 11:50 AM  

dienw wrote:Unknownsailor wrote:@33

It would help your case if you could accurately place what service Vindman is in.

HINT: It is not the Navy.


I asked for more information from others; but the point remains; now stop behaving like a fucking high-schooler. If you were an adult, you would have corrected me with his correct service:


Calm down, of course Unknownsailor is going to let everyone know this douche isn't Navy.

Blogger The Pitchfork Rebel November 23, 2019 12:03 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger The Pitchfork Rebel November 23, 2019 12:07 PM  

The message to Washington is clear and direct: if President Trump is driven from office by anything other than a loss in the 2020 election (if he runs)"

He's already running-so the conditional would be withdrawal from the race. Should he lose to any of his possible opponents, how can they be deemed "legitimate". What they propose would be evidence of totalitarian mania in by more a more thoughtful, sober electorate.

Such a victory will represent the triumph of dependency, institutional indoctrination and the use of porous borders to create a kleptocracy, by a ruling class (in Codevilla's sense of the word) that regards us with contempt as pawns to be deceived and denied in their quest for power.

Whatever happens next year, Donald Trump spared us from having the Clintons back in the White House and for that I will cast my vote for him.

Blogger Ska_Boss November 23, 2019 12:13 PM  

The deep state is god for the unbeliever. They are the highest power and authority, the lawmaker, the judge, jury and executioner. You only need to worship it to be provided with food, shelter, money, etc. You only need to give up your liberties in exchange for security.

And this is not just for the USA, but rather the entire world. Globalism is the narrative being forced upon all nations and those who dare refuse it will pay the price whether through economic coercion or outright war. Once everyone submits, it is basically game over. The amount of control over our lives will be unassailable. It will be a new world order, as they call it. I thought for sure if Hillary would have been elected it'd be the nail in the coffin, but then Trump came along.

Blogger Unknown November 23, 2019 12:15 PM  

Yes, the ground pounders and operators are, for the present, still not converged largely due to the simple fact of reality of battlefield conditions. However, the brass is working overtime to grind them down and get them to confirm. Think of all the recent news stories of front-liners/specops being brought up on charges. One whole SEAL team was pulled from theater for having a party on the 4th of July and the careers of leaders are done.

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling November 23, 2019 12:29 PM  

@65 Ska_Boss, in your blackpilling you're forgetting that "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." If the Deep State takes over the whole world, that will happen much faster as there won't be outside countries existing to prop up the socialist ones, one of the methods that Reagan used to kill the Soviet Union.

Blogger MidnightSun November 23, 2019 12:30 PM  

Let's be clear here: When we speak of "Democrats" or MS-13 Antifa et al, it should be noted that they all are given free reign to operate from the DOJ and various Intel agencies (DS). Try organizing as a Christian group and they'd be up your arse with a howitzer the next day!

Blogger Akulkis November 23, 2019 12:33 PM  

@The War for the West
31 years service in the Army here. 22 years in combat arms, the remaining, most recent years in combat service support. If you think the right-wing types who go infantry, cav, armor and helo are going to side. With the likes of a Warren administration in a federal government war against their hometowns and families, then you are talking only to rear-echelon types like dock operations, supply dumps, laundry ops...

Blogger Balam November 23, 2019 12:39 PM  

@tyr
Reading over Lind's "On War", describing the US's failures in the Middle East wars, you don't WANT the military top brass on your side in a 4th generation war. If Obama's appointed men are even worse expect the civil war to consist of Leftywashington drone striking children in the rural areas repeatedly and televising it all only to stoke the extreme anger of Americans on all sides. Followed quickly by the convergence of all police and military institutions by real Americans who join for the sole purpose of sabatoging and killing the top brass.

Blogger thethirdcoast November 23, 2019 1:20 PM  

Karhu wrote:@56. tyr:
On the other hand, see the saga of the Millennial SEALs who conspired to bring down Gallagher. How much will the Special Forces be useful for either side if they stay in organized units?


From what I have read about that situation, the individuals that attempted to bring down Cmdr. Gallagher are not worthy of the SEAL trident.

Blogger thethirdcoast November 23, 2019 1:23 PM  

To finish the prior thought...

....if Cmdr. Gallagher is incorrectly stripped of his trident by the 5 peer review board that has convened, Trump must intervene and restore the Cmdr's trident immediately.

Blogger Jack Amok November 23, 2019 1:27 PM  

Yes, the ground pounders and operators are, for the present, still not converged largely due to the simple fact of reality of battlefield conditions. However, the brass is working overtime to grind them down and get them to confirm. Think of all the recent news stories of front-liners/specops being brought up on charges. One whole SEAL team was pulled from theater for having a party on the 4th of July and the careers of leaders are done.

And do you think this will make SEALs and other Operators more, or less, sympathetic to the Deep State? This post is about 4GW and legitimacy. If the switch gets flipped, and the people who know how to do nasty things to targets who thought they were safe no longer believe the Brass is legitimate, would you give a plugged nickle for the life of some 2-star General who was working overtime to grind them down?

Blogger Robert Pinkerton November 23, 2019 1:35 PM  

@#47: 1. The starting event in Poul Anderson's No Truce With Kings is the impeachment and removal of the chief executive of the successor state in which the action takes place.
2. Silverberg's novel Hawksbill Station, set in that world's equivalent of our time-frame, postulates a revolution as consequence of a "... Never-ending Depression."

When you speak of a President wanting never to leave office, this makes me think of the possibility of a Caesaristic top-down coup d'etat.

Blogger lions paw November 23, 2019 1:36 PM  

I'm still digesting the post on decreasing migration. When the nasty phase kicks in will there be more migration? If so what will it look like ?

Blogger DonReynolds November 23, 2019 1:42 PM  

They are standing in a lake of gasoline, playing with matches, oblivious to the fact that once there is any ignition, it will not stop or pause until it engulfs the entire country. Then it is no longer a prank, or a joke, or embarrassing for the other side, or a PR stunt to win attention. Turn back, while you still can, before you set in motion things you cannot imagine, that could last the rest of your lifetime.

Blogger RedJack November 23, 2019 2:08 PM  

Soldiers and police follow those who pay them. Having worked with many veteran officers, they are all scared of being accused of hate crimes. Below NCO may be ok, but most are kept from any type of arms inside the CONUS.

Of course, any puller worth their salt knows how to get to their arms if needed.

As to the election. I have family in NoVa. All of them and their peers whom I interact with hate Trump because he "Does not know how things are done". They openly talk of ignoring the administration, faking reports, and just doing what they want. One told me that "Trump will not be allowed to run again. We will not allow it".

However, they are shocked when I tell them the "lower classes" hate them. The rural people, the blue collar people, the people outside the major cities hate them. That includes the seed stock for those who walk around with guns protecting the pedo's in the beltway.

If things go up, we are done as a nation. If they don't and Trump is impeached, we are done. If Trump is elected, the blue states will go nuts. This is the death of the current form of government. My only concern is I am not sure who Caesar is.

Blogger Ska_Boss November 23, 2019 2:17 PM  

Karhu wrote:@65 Ska_Boss, in your blackpilling you're forgetting that "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." If the Deep State takes over the whole world, that will happen much faster as there won't be outside countries existing to prop up the socialist ones, one of the methods that Reagan used to kill the Soviet Union.
Did you forget that central banking owns the machines that print money? And that negative interest rates and QE ad infinitum have already been used? Do you know the meaning of any of the words printed on dollar bills?

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling November 23, 2019 2:27 PM  

@78 Ska_Boss: money does not precisely equal the wheat Reagan started selling again for dollars to the Soviet Union, or the oil and gas exports he severely crimped with everything from sabotage to convincing the Saudis to drop the price of oil, no doubt part of the complex stew of our fighting the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan together. Which also cost them mightily.

Blogger Ranger November 23, 2019 3:10 PM  

The phrase is not about paper money, but about wealth and capital.

I don't know any of the words printed on dollar bills, but I am sure that, whatever it is, it's value as money is entirely dependent on the legitimacy of the US. Once THAT goes down, the value of the dollar will drop to its natural level (0)

Blogger Roddie Piper November 23, 2019 3:37 PM  

States have the manpower and physical resources to crush all tribes, but they also need a strong, manly, patriarchal civic religion that motivates men to fight alongside comrades who are not closely related to them.

When the official state religion decomposes into a pile of faggy feminist tranny horse shit, state armies get routed by tribal drug cartels, as recently happened in Mexico, and to the British army in Helmand Province.

Blogger Doktor Jeep November 23, 2019 3:42 PM  

There won't be "some big fight". What's going to happen is, the un-people are going to simply do what they want.
And BTW, if they want to homestead andake white babies, that is the one thing they can do to make the deep state and globohomo seethe with rage.
They'll try to make little laws for every little thing. Assuming we are as weak and brainless as the immigrants they slap uniforms on and send to enforce them. And these immigrants will be the worst people to rely on: dumb, self serving, lazy, and easy to bribe.
O was at one time " card carrying militia". If you are thinking fat bastards with AK knockoffs talking about the gooberment, well I was one of those people fixing that. Funny though we didn't end up dealing with lawfare games until after we started getting our shit together. The deep state was perfectly fine with bubblegutted retards retards in camo. Then we started a doctrine of gear standardization, never being seen in camo, and training that actually involved shooting, that's when the pedo-looking cops, zone enforcers, and county judges started their crap. I saw FEMA floodplane rules get used to shut ranges down "retroactively 30 years back" and try to find the land owner 100 dollars a day for every day. All because we became effective and some people we never met started getting nervous.
It can be done. Even the homesteading. I actually did it just to prove to others it can be done, and not far from where Owen is doing it now. Lots of people think it can't be done.
I never had the heart to tell him their biggest obstacle is their own family. Owen getting bears together is God's work, IMO, because I have seen men with "mainstream" wives try homesteading and up up divorce raped and permanently disarmed from false DV accusations ( with no actual convictions either).
I cannot predict what will happen. What will not happen is any kind of replay of The Revolution or the Civil War. People need to get that out of their heads. The country in which that all happened is dead and gone. A new path is more exciting and promising anyway.

Blogger Balkan Yankee November 23, 2019 3:42 PM  

The Deep State just cannot stop dancing on the skyline these days.

Blogger mrpinks November 23, 2019 4:56 PM  

A great article. Reminds you what a hinterland is. Many nations in the West are feeling their governments are no longer legitimate.

Blogger SciVo November 23, 2019 5:06 PM  

I'm still digesting the post on decreasing migration. When the nasty phase kicks in will there be more migration? If so what will it look like ?

What? I don't understand the question. Are you asking if there will be more migration in the next Great Depression?

If that is the question then the answer is both yes and no. People will return to their homelands, going back to where their families are. So there will be mass movement of people, but a reverse migration.

Blogger SciVo November 23, 2019 5:11 PM  

If things go up, we are done as a nation. If they don't and Trump is impeached, we are done. If Trump is elected, the blue states will go nuts. This is the death of the current form of government. My only concern is I am not sure who Caesar is.

I don't understand. What do you mean, who Caesar is?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 23, 2019 5:13 PM  

SciVo wrote:What do you mean, who Caesar is?
He is saying "The Republic is dead, but who shall kill it?"

Blogger SciVo November 23, 2019 5:19 PM  

Oh, right. Well, contra all the hysteria of the projectionist left, the one person we can absolutely be sure will not kill it is Donald J. Trump. He loves it too much.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd November 23, 2019 5:28 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:He is saying "The Republic is dead, but who shall kill it?"

Maybe closer to ``who is going to make the headshot on the zombie?'' The Republic is long dead: what will make us stop pretending otherwise?

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling November 23, 2019 5:32 PM  

@87 SciVo:

"contra all the hysteria of the projectionist left, the one person we can absolutely be sure will not kill it is Donald J. Trump. He loves it too much."

What if he decides that's the only alternative to having his family Romanoved?

I wonder, is there any place in the world he and his family could self-exile to that would be safe?

Blogger Timitz November 23, 2019 6:07 PM  

I respectfully disagree. Two years ago I was Civic Nationalist who was a strong federalist.

Now I believe that the Red States have no choice but to begin preparing for secession, mass expulsions, and violent defense of our land and way of life.

The only reason I'm staying in the military is to expose more people like me to these ideas by pointing out things like the impeachment that show they will stop at nothing to destroy our culture and way of life. You be amazed and how easily the conversions come when people get to deal with life in the converged military. I think you underestimate how many people have already transferred their primary loyalty away from the United States and to their home state or Ethnic identity.

Blogger Timitz November 23, 2019 6:20 PM  

Some things to consider.
1. Navy jobs are technical and require high IQ to operate and repair equipment. There are certain groups that dominate combat systems and engineering departments on ships.
2. Ships need sailors to work. Many sailors confronted with a scenario like that would either take their ship and go home, go to a ship that was going home, or just desert and show up at a ship where they called home.
3. There isn't much trust of or like of many of the officers on the ships. Many officers might be deluded fools, but enlisted Sailors are more pragmatic. Spartacus was merely a slave after all.

Blogger Timitz November 23, 2019 6:23 PM  

Bingo.

Getting into power at the local level and becoming more independent and self reliant, nullifying laws, and developing relationships with likeminded communities is the secret to success.

Blogger RedJack November 23, 2019 6:31 PM  

SciVo.

When republics finally die, they often find a strong man to lead. We are nearing the point where we will either break apart, or have a crown.

I am not sure who that will be. I suspect it is someone known already

Blogger Ominous Cowherd November 23, 2019 6:43 PM  

Trump might be our Sulla, or he might be our Caesar. His care for the military would be wise, if his plans included crossing a Rubicon.

Blogger lions paw November 23, 2019 7:00 PM  

It was a poorly worded question. Thanks for answering. I liked how you framed your answer around an economic depression and it's effect on the movement of people. I then spent some time researching movement during the Great Depression as well as look at a few other countries and their trends.

Blogger ZhukovG November 23, 2019 8:04 PM  

Regardless of the outcome of the 2020 Presidential Election I expect, at the least, a sharp rise in social unrest.

If you live in a 'Blue' area, you may want to plan to move to a 'Red' area. Kurt Schlichter's stories may become reality.

Blogger DonReynolds November 23, 2019 8:59 PM  

ZhukovG wrote:Regardless of the outcome of the 2020 Presidential Election I expect, at the least, a sharp rise in social unrest.

If you live in a 'Blue' area, you may want to plan to move to a 'Red' area. Kurt Schlichter's stories may become reality.


Very good, sir. Anyone moving from a Blue State to a Red State at this late date, may have some 'splaining to do when they arrive, and the answers best be convincing. In the near future, Red States may have little reason to suffer the company of refugees from Blue States....especially California.

Blogger Hammerli 280 November 23, 2019 9:27 PM  

One point I've not heard discussed is that the Democrat Party is now full of Fake Americans who have NO real understanding of democratic norms or principles.

When the Democrat Party was rebuilt after the Civil War, it was a coalition of unreconstructed Southern Democrats and Wave 4 immigrants...especially Wave 4b, the Irish. They added Wave 5 (Southern and Eastern Europeans) at the turn of the century, rode it to power in the 1930s and 1940s. Added Wave 6 (Latin America + Blacks) in the 1960s to the present...but the descendants of the Southern Democrats and Wave 4 were purged from the party.

The Democrat Party of today is made up almost entirely of Wave 5's descendants, and Wave 6. None of which have a strong grasp of democratic norms, such as integrity of elections, abiding by the results of an election, peaceful transfer of power, and not using political power to abuse defeated electoral opponents.

And the Wave 5 descendants are now in a fight with Wave 6 for control.

Blogger ZhukovG November 23, 2019 9:58 PM  

@DonReynolds: If you look at a United States County Voting Map, you will see that there is a lot of 'Red' inside what are technically 'Blue' states.

Also, just because you let someone in, doesn't mean you're granting them the right to vote or hold office.

Blogger DonReynolds November 24, 2019 2:06 AM  

ZhukovG wrote:@DonReynolds: If you look at a United States County Voting Map, you will see that there is a lot of 'Red' inside what are technically 'Blue' states.

Also, just because you let someone in, doesn't mean you're granting them the right to vote or hold office.


You are entirely correct and I could not agree more. The Truth is irresistible to any honest man.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 24, 2019 2:37 AM  

"Also, just because you let someone in, doesn't mean you're granting them the right to vote or hold office."

It does up until there are enforced laws specifying that it doesn't.

Blogger Balkan Yankee November 24, 2019 10:21 AM  

@99: In at least two Blue States, Washington and Colorado, the majority of counties have become 2A Sanctuaries in response to the passage of restrictive gun laws.

In the event of rebellion, Denver would be surrounded and Seattle cut off from the interior.

Blogger SciVo November 24, 2019 11:15 AM  

lions paw wrote:It was a poorly worded question. Thanks for answering. I liked how you framed your answer around an economic depression and it's effect on the movement of people. I then spent some time researching movement during the Great Depression as well as look at a few other countries and their trends.

Like many economic questions, it only requires normal human empathy. What do people do when they are in crisis? They reach out to friends and family, the people that care about them for themselves and not just for what they can do.

Blogger Daniel November 24, 2019 1:25 PM  

Perhaps the side with the military wins because of the firearms
In us case, civilians have the firearms too

Blogger Frankfurt Bear November 24, 2019 6:57 PM  

@#72 crackdown on Navy brass has started:
https://www.rt.com/usa/474234-us-navy-secretary-resigns-seal-gallagher/
I guess Trump has finally figured out exactly who his enemies are. Let's hope he will succeed in removing all of these traitors.

Blogger OneWingedShark November 25, 2019 10:14 AM  

Lovekraft wrote:Obama is the principle target and we should accept nothing less.
I think you're being a little too myopic here: as this paper indicates, it's not merely one person, but whole groups/organizations. — If, for example, Obama's Presidency was invalid due to the Constitutional requirement of natural born Citizen, then not only are large swaths of the Democrat party elite implicated, but so too huge portions of the Judiciary which kicked out most[/all?] legal-suits due to "lack of standing" and that would be a huge strike against the legitimacy of the federal Judiciary.

Stilicho wrote:4GW is already well under way at the moral level. We are shaping the battlefield and fighting over the moral high ground so that we will have an advantage when the conflict gets a bit more kinetic on a wide level.
This is true; and it echoes the Declaration of Independence: Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States..

Cataline Sergius wrote:I think the real Phaseline: Black will be when a former president is convicted of something that requires jailtime.
When that happens, the current president (whoever that is) will have a strong motivation to NEVER leave office.

Perhaps; but this only underscores how vital it is to have officials who do Justice. There is an Oriental concept of "The Mandate of Heaven", and the main way to lose the mandate was to be unjust. This is mirrored very well in the old testament passages on things like judging justly vs unjustly.

Karhu wrote:what if for example the cloud people after failing to impeach and convict in the Senate decide it's better to wreck the economy than allow Trump to win again?
Honestly, this is why "the economy" is such a BS metric: (1) there's a LOT of people who are underemployed and STILL having trouble getting work; (2) the profits of multinational corporations says essentially nothing about their 'local' home; (3) many numbers can be manipulated rather easily [eg Disney's alleged buying of tickets to prop up Captain Marvel]; (4) the previous combine so that a company "doing well" means nothing to the common people, moreso when the companies are importing foreign workers.

Blogger OneWingedShark November 25, 2019 11:35 AM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:Cataline Sergius wrote:I think the real Phaseline: Black will be when a former president is convicted of something that requires jailtime.

When that happens, the current president (whoever that is) will have a strong motivation to NEVER leave office.

Jerry Pournelle kept saying that's what would happen if we criminalized policy differences. Maybe jail time for actual crimes would be different. Maybe.

I would hope so — I suspect that seeing officials held to account for their misdeeds would do a lot to re-establish trust & legitimacy.

dienw wrote:Further to my point: From David Hodges' site:

President Trump is also facing a Navy that is in a state of mutiny against the President. They are conducting joint war games with the Chinese! This is insane and Trump has ordered this stopped, but the Navy is ignoring the order.

10 U.S. Code § 894. Art. 94. Mutiny or sedition
(a) Any person subject to this chapter who—
(1) with intent to usurp or override lawful military authority, refuses, in concert with any other person, to obey orders or otherwise do his duty or creates any violence or disturbance is guilty of mutiny;
(2) with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of lawful civil authority, creates, in concert with any other person, revolt, violence, or other disturbance against that authority is guilty of sedition;
(3) fails to do his utmost to prevent and suppress a mutiny or sedition being committed in his presence, or fails to take all reasonable means to inform his superior commissioned officer or commanding officer of a mutiny or sedition which he knows or has reason to believe is taking place, is guilty of a failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition.
(b) A person who is found guilty of attempted mutiny, mutiny, sedition, or failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.


Are there not 12 members of the Navy than can be trusted to see Justice done and these mutineers put to death?

MidnightSun wrote:Let's be clear here: When we speak of "Democrats" or MS-13 Antifa et al, it should be noted that they all are given free reign to operate from the DOJ and various Intel agencies (DS). Try organizing as a Christian group and they'd be up your arse with a howitzer the next day!
There's something quite telling about that.

Frankfurt Bear wrote:@72 crackdown on Navy brass has started:

https://www.rt.com/usa/474234-us-navy-secretary-resigns-seal-gallagher/
I guess Trump has finally figured out exactly who his enemies are. Let's hope he will succeed in removing all of these traitors.

Anything less than a courts martial with real, actual punishment is just begging for more mutiny.
One of the big problems we have is that there exists such "special people" who seem to be exempt from any accountability to the law.

Blogger Avalanche November 28, 2019 10:07 AM  

@63 "evidence of totalitarian mania in by more a more thoughtful, sober electorate."

And just where do you hope to find such an electorate?

Blogger Avalanche November 28, 2019 6:12 PM  

@102 "In the event of rebellion, Denver would be surrounded and Seattle cut off from the interior."

From your keyboard to God's Adjutant! However, eastern Washington is MASSIVELY "agricultural," i.e., Mexican and S-American, drug importers. Yakima is a major drug 'in-port' for the West coast and western mid-America.

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