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Sunday, November 24, 2019

Draining the Navy Swamp

It's going to be amusing to see the media waxing dramatic about the importance of military control of the civilian government. Jack Posobiec breaks the news:
BREAKING: President Trump has fired the Secretary of the Navy after publicly defying a direct order from the commander in chief
Good on the God-Emperor. Any cabinet member who is going to publicly disrespect the President and play semantic games about what an "order" is has to go, and go immediately.

UPDATE: Agent Posobiec confirmed.
Defense Secretary Mark Esper asked and received the resignation of Navy Secretary Richard Spencer on Sunday over his handling of the case of a Navy SEAL accused of war crimes in Iraq that angered President Donald Trump.

Labels: ,

52 Comments:

Blogger Glen Sprigg November 24, 2019 7:01 PM  

Soon impeachment will be dispensed with for lack of actual evidence (or impeachable crime), and then Trump gets to be re-elected in a colossal, Reaganesque landslide.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I will be out with a set of Mason jars collecting salty leftist tears on Election night. And I'm not even in the US yet.

Blogger Frankfurt Bear November 24, 2019 7:04 PM  

Great news. Lets hope the process won't stop here. Next step is to remove the insubordinate Navy generals too.

Blogger RedJack November 24, 2019 7:10 PM  

I have stated before. The Military is not on the side of the red states.

Or rather the officers and most of the rear is not. Which will make any civil disturbance rather interesting.

Blogger God Emperor Memes November 24, 2019 7:12 PM  

The goddamn Clintons managed to cuck the Navy so hard. Perhaps the Navy was easier to converge due to the number of homosexuals found there?

Blogger VFM #7634 November 24, 2019 7:16 PM  

More here:

Blackmail Confirmed, Navy Secretary Richard Spencer Removed by Defense Secretary Mark T Esper…

Blogger Felix Bellator November 24, 2019 7:19 PM  

As Aesop was asking on his Raconteur Report blog, "Of all the presidents in the last 40 years, do you really figure this one is the one you want to try and go head-to-head with??" Where was this questioning of Presidential direction during Benghazi or in the Bradley Manning Treason?

Blogger cecilhenry November 24, 2019 7:20 PM  

What was the order he defied publicly??

It can't have been the only incident.

Blogger Stilicho November 24, 2019 7:24 PM  

Well done!

In other news, disgraced former Navy Secretary to get CNN gig in 3,2, 1...

Well, as soon as he gets done testifying that he too didn't hear the call to Ukraine's President and he too isn't aware of any impeachable crimes, but he too has concerns...

Blogger Gettimothy November 24, 2019 7:55 PM  

Finally! An American President. Judaizers delende est

Blogger JAG November 24, 2019 7:59 PM  

There's a couple more that need to go, too. R. Adm. Green comes to mind.

Blogger Rusty November 24, 2019 7:59 PM  

Hi Vox,
Am I the only one who is reminded of Col. Nathan Jessup?

Blogger Dave November 24, 2019 8:14 PM  

https://taskandpurpose.com/richard-spencer-fired-gallagher-trident

https://taskandpurpose.com/navy-secretary-richard-spencer-letter-trump

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( no need to be racist, Ratchets can Karen better than anybody ) November 24, 2019 8:23 PM  

7. cecilhenry November 24, 2019 7:20 PM
It can't have been the only incident.



uh.

you don't seem to grasp the American form of government.

the Republicanically elected President General of Generals and Admiral of Admirals, the Commander in Chief.

there *is* NO ONE higher in the military chain of command than Donald BallsofSteel Trump.

and insubordination, especially when public, has always been a court martial offense. and that could be for a Private 3rd backtalking his Sargent.

Blogger pyrrhus November 24, 2019 8:31 PM  

Trump should have stripped him of his rank first, as others have suggested....

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( no need to be racist, Ratchets can Karen better than anybody ) November 24, 2019 8:40 PM  

good comment at CTH, i would only add that much of his reasoning also needs to apply to the Diplomats and State Dept, just from the facts and testimony that have come out in the "impeachment".

"De Oppresso Liber says:
November 24, 2019 at 7:49 pm

Thank you, Sundance, for doing your diligent (as always!) research to gather all the pertinent facts. I raised the alarm on this situation in the Open Thread on Friday (22 November).

I must admit that my patriotic zeal took over, and my post ended with having all involved walk the plank, because the SecNav would not, in my humble opinion, have taken such a reckless undertaking upon himself without at least testing the waters, and assessing the amount of support he would have from his senior officers. My only “proof” being that Rear Adm. Green had commented much like Spencer did – that he would resign if forced to accept Chief Gallagher remaining a SEAL. Also, as with Spencer, I cannot believe he would risk everything if he did not believe he had some serious damn juice behind him…..like perhaps maybe most of the entire USN Command!

Anyway, I believe there are several more individuals involved in this, either by commission or omission, and I stand by my previous post as to their punishment(s). This was a damn MUTINY, committed by some of the most senior USN Commanders (I don’t believe Green was all by himself), against the Commander in Chief!!!

President Trump was far too lenient, in my opinion, of Secretary Spencer — he should NOT have allowed him to resign, but rather should have FIRED him with extreme public prejudice. As for Rear Admiral Green, IF the facts prove to be similar to Spencer’s (i.e. threatening resignation), he should be adjudicated through the UCMJ for committing a MUTINY against the President of the United States……reduced in rank to E-1, forfeiture of ALL retirement allowances, and sentenced to 20 years hard labor at Ft. Leavenworth. Similarly, any other active duty personnel supporting said MUTINY should also be adjudicated and punished accordingly.

I never, ever imagined such a public breakdown of discipline and total disregard for our Chain of Command could happen within our Armed Forces. I fully realize that it takes years to repair the damage to our Armed Forces, wrought by democrats every time they gain control of the White House, but the purges of Ol’ Sparklefarts have truly been devastating to both readiness and morale.
"

Blogger Johnny November 24, 2019 9:18 PM  

>>I never, ever imagined such a public breakdown of discipline and total disregard for our Chain of Command...

Trump or the deep state, choose your poison.

Blogger Werekoala November 24, 2019 9:39 PM  

No doubt he was trying to virtue signal his contempt for the Bad Orange Man and hoped to bring his other flag-rank officers into the cabal. We;ll see how that works out for him.

Blogger doctrev November 24, 2019 9:44 PM  

If he's willing to axe the Secretary of the Navy, that's a clear sign to those below him: either march straight or fall out.

This week is gonna be lit. And the thing is, officers are reliant on the enlisted, while enlisted gain legitimacy from officers. Without officers, the military may as well be a rival gang: without enlisted, the military won't work at all.

So you can, and should, purge officers that discard legitimacy.

Blogger Nathan November 24, 2019 9:44 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Nathan November 24, 2019 9:46 PM  

Spencer should have been axed months ago after failing on his promise to get the Ford mission capable by the end of summer.

"Navy leadership has, once again, shown its true, deplorable, colors. Secretary of the Navy, Richard Spencer – you remember him, right? the guy who promised Trump that he could fire him if the Ford’s elevators weren’t fixed by the end of summer? – has now come out and blamed Congress and anyone else he could think of for the Ford’s problems."

https://navy-matters.blogspot.com/2019/10/the-rot-starts-at-top.html

Blogger Sheila4g November 24, 2019 10:03 PM  

I'm surprised and quite pleased by this news. Trump has seemed to be a bit too much of a supporter of the US military, without questioning who appointed or promoted certain individuals. Given that the upper ranks are filled with SJWs and brown-nosers who kept their positions amid all the other Obama firings/demotions/retirements, Trump should have cleaned house long before this. Totally aside from the absurdity of trying to strip a man of his legitimately-earned SEAL trident for merely posing with a dead enemy, this sort of rank insubordination could not be allowed to stand. More, please.

Blogger Doktor Jeep November 24, 2019 10:03 PM  

Defying orders.... does not one also go to prison for that? I recall such a thing from my days in the service. Or perhaps higher level commissions differ probably.
It's a start. Let there be thousands more.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 November 24, 2019 10:10 PM  

I recall that during Obama's administration, he had various top military brass forcibly removed in some fashion or another, especially during the Benghazi incident. My guess is this guy was an Obama operative.

Blogger Blue and Gold Bear November 24, 2019 10:28 PM  

Hell yeah! One step toward a less converged Navy.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 24, 2019 10:42 PM  

As a former Navy sailor, hell yes.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 24, 2019 10:48 PM  

"I recall that during Obama's administration, he had various top military brass forcibly removed in some fashion or another"

It was a kiss the ring or be replaced scenario. He ravaged the top leadership of a lot of the military in order to place sycophants.

Blogger Lazarus November 24, 2019 10:56 PM  

Are there no firing squads?

Blogger Wazdakka November 24, 2019 11:01 PM  

The comments in that twitter feed lead me to believe that a trumpslide is inevitable next year.

Blogger MNW November 24, 2019 11:22 PM  

A few somewhat random thoughts:

I though the sec. Of the Navy is a civilian poition under the SecDef. He might be former .mil, but to rise to the top of the military or the leadership civilian posts you have to be political. This also means he couldn't be court marshaled.

The top levels of the military are political and it gets more swampy the higher you go. Think about how many of Trumps "generals" turned out to be swamp creatures. Kelly and Mathis come to mind.

I imagine that you will find a different attitude amongst the enlisted. Their are likely differences among the branches as well. The different branches have developed different cultures and traditions. They also attract different kinds if people. Historicly, every large military has had differences and rivalries among the branches.

Regardless, every poll I have seen 20-30% of the military as a whole are questionable at best.

Blogger jarheadljh November 24, 2019 11:44 PM  

I wouldn't count on that, Glen, because Trump is not acting like he *wants* the impeachment to stop. I would do everything that I could to prolong it if I were him because this has been the biggest public embarrassment of the DNC, well, since the last time they tried to go after him. I think that the other day he even said that he wanted a real trial, which dovetails with what McConnell said would happen if the House followed through on impeachment.

It's like VD said the other day about going into a game only to find out that the team would instead be someone three leagues bellow you. And retarded. Trump might have to help them impeach him so that he can crush them ahead of the election.

Blogger pdwalker November 24, 2019 11:58 PM  

Off topic

For those following the situation in Hong Kong, the pro Beijing parties got their asses handed to themselves in the local elections. It is the highest voter turnout rate in HK's voting history at over 71% because the locals wanted to send a message to the government.

As a consequence, if the government continues their heavy handed tactics against the protestors, the violence is going to continue.

Blogger Jill in StL November 25, 2019 12:33 AM  

Mike Cernovich
‏Verified account @Cernovich
7h7 hours ago

Eddie Gallagher to file IG Complaint against Secretary Spencer, alleging that Spencer personally intervened to dissuade people from coming to Gallagher’s defense.

Blogger Jill in StL November 25, 2019 12:53 AM  

I have a question that maybe Vox and/or some of the very knowledgeable former military folks here might be able to answer that has always troubled me back when this allegedly occurred, as my Dad was career Army, serving in WW2 (he and his fellow soldiers were first boots on the ground to liberate Buchenwald work camp/concentration camp (whichever you might believe the correct narrative is really the truth, given my husband and I recently watched 3 documentaries about the Holocaust that paint an entirely different light on what happened there, but I won't go there now), as well as the Korean Conflict, then immediately transferred into the Army National Guard for 37 years total service to our country, retiring at the then highest rank an enlisted man could attain, sergeant major. My question is this - is there any connection to these current high ranking military turncoats in regards to what allegedly occurred during the Obama administration with the questioning of high ranking military officials supposedly being asked whether they would be willing to fire on US citizens on US soil (potentially relating to civilian gun seizure/2nd Amendment) - are these turncoats basically the ones who indicated they would have no problems firing on US citizens, thus they were allowed to stay in the military?? And pardon me for the Alex Jones link for the article about this supposed incident, but it seems Google has conveniently made it really hard to find any articles regarding what allegedly occurred: https://www.infowars.com/ex-navy-seal-military-leaders-being-asked-if-they-will-disarm-americans/

Maybe I am way off base and forming a conspiracy theory in my own mind over any connection to this and what has occurred in the last 24 hours with Spencer, but since my Dad passed away 14 years ago, I really miss being able to have an honest discussion about the military with him; otherwise, this question would have been something I would have asked him. Thanks in advance and I apologize if this isn't really anything more than my imagination running away with itself.

Blogger Unknownsailor November 25, 2019 1:02 AM  

doctrev wrote:If he's willing to axe the Secretary of the Navy, that's a clear sign to those below him: either march straight or fall out.

This week is gonna be lit. And the thing is, officers are reliant on the enlisted, while enlisted gain legitimacy from officers. Without officers, the military may as well be a rival gang: without enlisted, the military won't work at all.

So you can, and should, purge officers that discard legitimacy.

Retired USN here.

Spare me that 50 years out of date bilge, enlisted sailors are not uneducated illiterate rabble that require educated gentlemen for leadership or they run wild. Officers provide direction, enlisted carry that out. I never needed officer approval to do my job, nor did I ever need one to give me legitimacy. Officers planned for next week, next month, next year, and were not necessary tor day to day operations, and the more they stayed out of my hair and left me alone to get my work done the better. Time talking to them was time I was not taking care of my customers.

As for firing the SecNav, it's about damned time. Should have been done when it became apparent how much a goat rope the Court Martial was for Chief Ghalleger.

Now the Secretary of the Army needs to be answering questions about LtCol Shitbird, and if he cannot provide a compelling reason why that douchenozzle is not currently facing an Article 32 hearing for a later General Court Martial, SecArmy needs to be fired too.

Blogger Unknownsailor November 25, 2019 1:11 AM  

Jill in StL wrote:I have a question that maybe Vox and/or some of the very knowledgeable former military folks here might be able to answer that has always troubled me back when this allegedly occurred, as my Dad was career Army, serving in WW2 (he and his fellow soldiers were first boots on the ground to liberate Buchenwald work camp/concentration camp (whichever you might believe the correct narrative is really the truth, given my husband and I recently watched 3 documentaries about the Holocaust that paint an entirely different light on what happened there, but I won't go there now), as well as the Korean Conflict, then immediately transferred into the Army National Guard for 37 years total service to our country, retiring at the then highest rank an enlisted man could attain, sergeant major. My question is this - is there any connection to these current high ranking military turncoats in regards to what allegedly occurred during the Obama administration with the questioning of high ranking military officials supposedly being asked whether they would be willing to fire on US citizens on US soil (potentially relating to civilian gun seizure/2nd Amendment) - are these turncoats basically the ones who indicated they would have no problems firing on US citizens, thus they were allowed to stay in the military?? And pardon me for the Alex Jones link for the article about this supposed incident, but it seems Google has conveniently made it really hard to find any articles regarding what allegedly occurred: https://www.infowars.com/ex-navy-seal-military-leaders-being-asked-if-they-will-disarm-americans/

Maybe I am way off base and forming a conspiracy theory in my own mind over any connection to this and what has occurred in the last 24 hours with Spencer, but since my Dad passed away 14 years ago, I really miss being able to have an honest discussion about the military with him; otherwise, this question would have been something I would have asked him. Thanks in advance and I apologize if this isn't really anything more than my imagination running away with itself.

I don't know how it got started that Obama was firing unloyal commanders, but I know for a fact that one of the ones often sited for that isn't true. Admiral Gaouette was fired as Stennis battlegroup commender in 2012, and it made the rounds that he was fired by Obama for disregarding stand down orders in Benghazi. This is not the case, he was fired for being an unmitigated ass hole to his staff, surfing porn on his computer, and all manner of general dickhead stuff. I was on that ship when it happened. The ship's CO is who reported Gauette to higher.

I highly suggest you research some of the cited cases behind those 200 relieved commanders, and you will find that they generally follow that overall theme, officers fired for stepping on their dick in a public and flagrant manner.

It happens a lot more often than you think. A former XO of mine got busted a few years after I served with him for DUI, got force retired.

Blogger God Emperor Memes November 25, 2019 2:20 AM  

Dated the 24th:
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6507920/trump-tweet-not-formal-order-us-navy-sec/

Blogger Stilicho November 25, 2019 2:38 AM  

@blue and gold bear: 95!

Blogger wreckage November 25, 2019 3:12 AM  

Can anyone here tell me if Posobiec has a blog?

Blogger JamesB.BKK November 25, 2019 3:50 AM  

The US Navy is literally a wreck. It's about time seniors were shitcanned.

Blogger The Observer November 25, 2019 5:06 AM  

https://twitter.com/USMC/status/1198647468008857602?s=20

How the mighty have fallen: not just female drill instructors, but female MIDGET drill instructors.

Xi and Putin surely quake in their boots.

Blogger Skyler the Weird November 25, 2019 7:14 AM  

They seemed to have no problem with Barry W Bush ransoming someone who deserted to the Taliban and trading him for five terrorist leaders to get him back.

Blogger xevious2030 November 25, 2019 7:31 AM  

“Or rather the officers and most of the rear is not. Which will make any civil disturbance rather interesting.”

That’s why the aspies are taking the normies down the log ride with such odd splits and alternate paths. The alternate path is not in their (normies) programmed understanding of the ride, and they slam on the breaks not knowing what to do (so they backup and try to get back on the main flume, or ride forward confused). Interesting watching the roles reversed. Like watching the “foreign contaminant” robot on Wall-e.”

Blogger Cataline Sergius November 25, 2019 7:31 AM  

Now the Secretary of the Army needs to be answering questions about LtCol Shitbird, and if he cannot provide a compelling reason why that douchenozzle is not currently facing an Article 32 hearing for a later General Court Martial, SecArmy needs to be fired too.

I'd give him a little time. He just got the job a bit over a month ago.

But Spencer was a "Mad Dog" approved appointee. Basically, he was guaranteed not to rock to Admirals' applecart.

Not corrupt, just weak-willed. He'd adopt the point of view of the last forceful personality he spoke to.

Trump tells him to make sure that Gallagher's Trident stays on his chest and he goes off to tell the Admirals. The Admirals perform a smoke a mirrors dance for him and goes back to Trump asking, "have you really had given me an order?"

The answer was, yes and now you're getting another one. Get out!

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( no need to be racist, Ratchets can Karen better than anybody ) November 25, 2019 8:44 AM  

36. God Emperor Memes November 25, 2019 2:20 AM
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6507920/trump-tweet-not-formal-order-us-navy-sec/




what's your point?

IS a tweet technically a 'formal order'? certainly not.

has the POTUS already directly countermanded the Court Martial decision in this case? certainly yes.

therefore, the CiC has clearly demonstrated an interest and directive which the Navy should be following with regards to this case.

and which the Navy seems to be demonstrating a wholehearted desire to refuse to abide by.

therefore, when Trump issues a tweet, which conforms to his prior EXPLICIT ORDER, it might just behoove the SecNav to send a clarification request up the chain of command
...
rather than continuing to attempt to thwart the clearly expressed desires of his ultimate Commander.


as to this whole 'body posing' issue;
how many men would have to have been court martialed in WW2 for this?

i mean, they were sending skulls back home to the CONUS as souvenirs.

while this may be an existing reg, i have a hard time taking it seriously.

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling November 25, 2019 8:57 AM  

Here's a wrinkle in the case I hadn't heard before: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/31/us/politics/trump-navy-seal-war-crimes.html

The prosecutors who lost the case against Gallagher while committing a lot of prosecutorial misconduct and gross incompetence (an immunized witness confessed at trial to killing the Iraqi, he was never asked about that vs. their prosecuting Gallagher for it), were awarded Navy Achievement Medals. Which back in July Trump ordered them stripped of, including using some angry Tweets.

Blogger Joseph Dooley November 25, 2019 9:38 AM  

In related news, Richard Spencer's tell all bio will be coming out September 2020. His advance is reportedly 7 figures.

*sarc

Blogger Hammerli 280 November 25, 2019 10:36 AM  

Allow me to point out that a replacement SECNAV nominee has already been announced. Which implies that they were planning on sacking Spencer fairly soon in any event. Certainly he's done nothing to fix the serious shipbuilding issues.

Blogger Oswald November 25, 2019 10:55 AM  

He resigned, so technically he was not fired. That offers some benefit to the Admiral. I suggest Trump not give any future fireree an option to resign to prevent them from writing a self serving letter of resignation like this Jerk.

If Trump is still cleaning out people at that high of a level almost three years from taking office, then this is far from over. I remember during Obama's reign that many Generals and Admirals resigned. Obama obviously replaced them with his people. Therefore, I suggest Trump go back an look at who resigned under Obama and immediately fire their replacements. He is sure to bag 100% lefties that are working against him.

Blogger Unknownsailor November 25, 2019 12:08 PM  

@48

His resignation was requested. At that level, that equals firing.

Blogger OneWingedShark November 25, 2019 12:22 PM  

Jill in StL wrote:My question is this - is there any connection to these current high ranking military turncoats in regards to what allegedly occurred during the Obama administration with the questioning of high ranking military officials supposedly being asked whether they would be willing to fire on US citizens on US soil (potentially relating to civilian gun seizure/2nd Amendment) - are these turncoats basically the ones who indicated they would have no problems firing on US citizens, thus they were allowed to stay in the military??
This is a particularly multi-layered question.
I come from a military family, and while I've never encountered such questionnaires, I've heard that they are done periodically. Even at face-value, as a statistical sampling of indicators regarding military dispositions, there are dangers here: you could use such metrics as part of a feedback-loop if your goal was to drive some goal, like a non-loyalty to the native citizenry. — And none of that requires more than some well-placed individuals in the bureaucratic portions of military-recruitment, whether military or civilian.

So I can't say if they were honest or nefarious in their motivation, nor do I think it matters all that much even if it were honest.

Blogger MNW November 25, 2019 12:58 PM  

Cdr salamander and snafu blog have been covering the disgraceful state if the naïve, in detail for some time.

Blogger doctrev November 25, 2019 2:09 PM  

Unknownsailor wrote:
Spare me that 50 years out of date bilge, enlisted sailors are not uneducated illiterate rabble that require educated gentlemen for leadership or they run wild. Officers provide direction, enlisted carry that out. I never needed officer approval to do my job, nor did I ever need one to give me legitimacy. Officers planned for next week, next month, next year, and were not necessary tor day to day operations, and the more they stayed out of my hair and left me alone to get my work done the better. Time talking to them was time I was not taking care of my customers.

As for firing the SecNav, it's about damned time. Should have been done when it became apparent how much a goat rope the Court Martial was for Chief Ghalleger.

Now the Secretary of the Army needs to be answering questions about LtCol Shitbird, and if he cannot provide a compelling reason why that douchenozzle is not currently facing an Article 32 hearing for a later General Court Martial, SecArmy needs to be fired too.


You're attacking a strawman. I already said that the enlisted do all the real work. Officers provide the political legitimacy, but only by the standards of current politics. That's what they're given a commission for: to make sure political commands are obeyed.

Donald Trump understands that the enlisted have the legitimacy which actually matters. That is, respect and admiration from the American nation. It's why he stuck up for Chief Petty Officer Gallagher and why he enjoys the personal loyalty of the military majority.

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