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Monday, November 04, 2019

No, you're just irrelevant

Neither Hell nor women hath fury like a gamma male ignored:
Vox Day demonstrates I'm correct: 1)Xians are cowards waiting for someone else do to the work; show up after, say an everyone-gets-a-prize, and claim victory for their semitic god of hate. 2) Right Online is gossip-whoring for chump change from the gullible for feels and failure.
I occasionally get asked - and usually by the same two or three people - what I think about "propertarianism". My answer is always the same: I don't.

I read series of selections on his site a few  years ago at the recommendation of a reader. As a result, I'm even less interested in Doolittle's ideas than I am in Mencius Moldbug's. He's just another verbose midwit caught up in self-delusions of secret king grandeur.

Neither the heart of Man nor the fallen World will ever be fixed by any magic ism. It is a category error to imagine - much less insist - otherwise. And Western civilization can no more survive the excision of Christianity than it can survive the elimination by adulteration of the European nations.

Labels: ,

227 Comments:

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Blogger Andy Evick November 04, 2019 6:45 AM  

Word of God > any ideology

Blogger JACIII November 04, 2019 6:58 AM  

Has the stench of alt-retard. Are they running around pooing on the carpet again?

Blogger Daniele Grech Pereira November 04, 2019 6:59 AM  

"Muh Christians are dumb, stupid losers."
They never get tired of saying this. And we never get tired of ignoring their cries of gamma pain.

Blogger basementhomebrewer November 04, 2019 7:10 AM  

"Muh Christians are dumb, stupid losers."

They say this while reaping all the benefits of living in a society based on Christianity. If they believe this, then go live in a society free of Christianity and tell us how great it is. There are more than a few in the world to choose.

Blogger Doktor Jeep November 04, 2019 7:15 AM  

Nothing more GenX than a movement that eschews isms.

Blogger Harambe November 04, 2019 7:15 AM  

If I'm going to dive into that twitter thread, I'm gonna need a bigger fedora

Blogger Harambe November 04, 2019 7:16 AM  

Doktor Jeep wrote:Nothing more GenX than a movement that eschews isms.



Except for ironic satanism, amirite?

Blogger Gallant November 04, 2019 7:20 AM  

I cringe when I hear the mechanics and rationale - thinking of how propertarianism could 'bring back 8-track' just because a judge decrees it so.

Blogger ZhukovG November 04, 2019 7:24 AM  

Victoria(the novel) had it right. No ideology, however enlightened, really works. It always starts with, "people just need to be reeducated", and ends up with the "Gulag Archipelago".

Christendom works because it accepts that people basically suck, but can be redeemed.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 04, 2019 7:26 AM  

But without Isms, Ists and Phobias what would conservative intellectuals have to discuss? I hope Hell for George Will is being serenaded by chants of "Sexist, Racist, Homophobe" at 110db by a group of morbidly obese colored haired femalish trolls, forever.

Blogger dienw November 04, 2019 7:33 AM  

Another shit idiocy:
“We are the the most important intellectual movement of the era – the Marxism of the 21st century – and it’s complete inversion: the replacement of the pseudosciences, sophisms, frauds, and deceits of abrahamism, marxism, postmodernism, feminism and their attempt at global monopoly – with the restoration of western civilization’s tradition of excellence, truth, duty, beauty, sovereignty, nationalism, and the natural law of reciprocity. … And we are just getting started. … Let a thousand nations bloom.” [for some reason it is signed A. Hamilton]
And:
“Heroism and Excellence; Truth and Duty; Oath and Warranty; Sovereignty and Reciprocity; Law and Jury; And Voluntary Markets in Every Aspect of Life: Association, Cooperation, Production, Reproduction, Commons, Polities and War: the Direction of Dominance Expression to the Production of Commons by a Distributed Dictatorship of Individually Sovereign People and the Reciprocal Warranty of Denial of Power To Any and All.
— The Group Evolutionary Strategy of European Civilization.”


The thought and reason of man does not replace God and His Word: the ways of man end in death.

Blogger dienw November 04, 2019 7:35 AM  

Mr.MantraMan wrote:But without Isms, Ists and Phobias what would conservative intellectuals have to discuss? I hope Hell for George Will is being serenaded by chants of "Sexist, Racist, Homophobe" at 110db by a group of morbidly obese colored haired femalish trolls, forever.

And poorly tied bow ties.

Blogger The Cooler November 04, 2019 7:35 AM  

Y'all seen Multiplicity?

Doolittle is Nietzsche three clones later.

Blogger mike November 04, 2019 7:36 AM  

Another religious dumbass who cant appreciate wisdom when he sees it. Go back to BibleGateway, faggot.

Blogger Shane Bradman November 04, 2019 7:38 AM  

I have no idea what this propertyism shit is but it sounds really boring. If you're going to make an ism, make it exciting. Nationalism. Stoicism. Plagiarism. Criticism. Alcoholism.

Blogger Pierre November 04, 2019 7:39 AM  

- "The plan to get rid of gammas is to scalp anyone who complains about the plan to get rid of gammas."

- "Ackshually..."


Blogger Manuel November 04, 2019 7:39 AM  

It's in his name. "Do little."

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 04, 2019 7:43 AM  

That kid who uses the phrase "thought leader" should go watch the movie "Seven Beauties." There the thought follower has to beg for food to even get the energy to service an overweight thought leader, after surviving the trek back from a very cold thought expedition to the Soviet Union.

Blogger New Creation November 04, 2019 7:47 AM  

"can't appreciate wisdom when he sees it." Projection.

Blogger Dole November 04, 2019 7:50 AM  

I follow Curt.

Vox and Curt agree on about 95% of things. Lately Curt has been criticizing libertarianism and the NAP, same topic as Vox's stream when the topic came up.

Curt is definitely not a Gamma, but likes trolling people. I think the infighting is counter-productive. As far the "isms" go, propertarianism is a good set of principles for people who are not Christians, and certainly better alternative to libertarianism.

Blogger Doktor Jeep November 04, 2019 7:54 AM  

I seen that propertarianism stuff over the years. It struck me as just more wordy naval gazing. Writing a bunch of essays and attaching a word to label it is not going to actually solve anything
And it seems like around 2014 to early 2016 there was some kind of intellectual clusterf*ck in the dissident right. I was seeing essays and articles that were very spergy and wordy, making a lot of esoteric references, and for the most part didn't really go anywhere. It was like watching a YouTube video on how to do something, then you click on it, and it's some guy sitting there for 10 minutes going blah blah blah and not actually doing anything. It's excruciating. Around that time I just gave up trying to read it. I would see it as yet another article that's going to take 10 minutes to read, tell me in all sorts of complicated and impressive ways how our problems stem from one or two things from history that nobody ever considered before, and then not offer up any actual workable solution or prescribe any kind of counter action. It reminds me of computer code written by college students to impress the professor that if you used it in actual code out in the world your co-workers would beat you up in the parking lot.
Ultimately we need only to see who is more effective. I think it's obvious.

Blogger Rocklea Marina November 04, 2019 7:56 AM  

As far the "isms" go, propertarianism is a good set of principles for people who are not Christians, and certainly better alternative to libertarianism.

I'd rather know the Colonel's secret recipe of eleven herbs and spices. They're finger lickin' good.

Blogger dienw November 04, 2019 7:57 AM  

@15. ISWYDT

Blogger Sigurd Jorsalfar November 04, 2019 8:02 AM  

Getting flashbacks to the start of Vox beginning to crush JBP. His fanboys come in insisting that they have so much in common, and he just needs to listen and understand that JBP is doing something good.

If you like Curt, fine.
Stop insisting Vox should. It does not end well, statistically.

Blogger Shane Bradman November 04, 2019 8:02 AM  

@22. My theory is that The Colonel doesn't use herbs and spices. He's secretly a priest and blesses the chicken while it's being fried. That's how it tastes so good.

Blogger Avalanche November 04, 2019 8:16 AM  

The first phrase on his page is "Aristocratic Egalitarianism."

Is he suggesting all aristocrats are equal to each other? All humans are aristocrats? Aristocrats are equal to non-aristocrats?! HE is an aristocrat and therefore thinks everyone else is equal to each other? WTH?


A commenter writes:
"Their metaphysics are chalk and cheese, but they both know and embrace what is coming to America & the west."

So, the Dark Lord and this Dolittle fellow can both see the dusky tidal wave that is sweeping up to crash over the Western world - if that's what he thinks Vox is "embracing"? --, and so, somehow, they should be friends?

Blogger VD November 04, 2019 8:18 AM  

I think the infighting is counter-productive.

What infighting? I will continue to pay absolutely no attention to Doolittle. If you are a fan of his, I suggest you pray that I continue to do so.

Blogger JAG November 04, 2019 8:19 AM  

Dole wrote:I think the infighting is counter-productive.

The in-fighting is very much needed to weed out the fakes and grifters like Charlie Kirk, Sebastian Gorka, and unfortunately Bill Whittle. I liked Whittle, but #OkBoomer caused him to rage and start spouting off Lefty accomplishments as an attempt to counter. Mask slipped off.

Blogger Shane Bradman November 04, 2019 8:22 AM  

It's a dumb idea to say that we should get along with someone because they share one thing in common with us. There are a lot of Catholics that are fucking dipshits and I'm not going to be friends with them just because we have the same religion. Vox and Dr Dolittle both want to "save the West", sure, but that's a piss poor reason to be friends with someone. It's the equivalent of being friends with a dude because his favourite colour is also blue.

Blogger Brett baker November 04, 2019 8:24 AM  

Ironic satanism needs respect, too. Or it needs to shut up and quit bothering the rest of us.
Probably the latter.

Blogger Uncle John's Band November 04, 2019 8:26 AM  

Because the world needed another grifter peddling ontologically-incoherent secular transcendence as a fast track to solipsistic self-erasure.

Watching the idiots that fall for this nonsense rise to the defense of their piper will be mildly amusing until it isn’t.

Blogger Dole November 04, 2019 8:29 AM  

@Jag

That is not in-fighting. That is fighting.

Blogger Damelon Brinn November 04, 2019 8:29 AM  

If anyone ever asks me what I think about propertarianism, I'll know I took a wrong turn and wound up at the wrong party.

Blogger ToTheRightRon November 04, 2019 8:30 AM  

Propertarianism = trying to go deep but coming up dry. Dry well guys.

Blogger Johnny November 04, 2019 8:32 AM  

Propertarianism, a word with too many syllables.

Blogger Doktor Jeep November 04, 2019 8:34 AM  

"I think the infighting is counter-productive"

Found the bowtie

Blogger Baseball Savant November 04, 2019 8:40 AM  

VD wrote:I think the infighting is counter-productive.

What infighting? I will continue to pay absolutely no attention to Doolittle. If you are a fan of his, I suggest you pray that I continue to do so.


Agree here. You can see stuff like this coming from a mile away. Back when Peterson was getting big he was getting all this nut hugging from red pill Twitter. Having been around here from the very beginning, heck I go back to the first WND article post-9/11, the first thing I thought was, "Good grief, if Vox ever gets a hold of this guy it's going to be all over for him."

The same thing applies here. Why do guys like Doolittle even utter Vox's name??? I'll never understand why. Do they feel more validated if Vox utterly destroys them?

Blogger Cloudbuster November 04, 2019 8:41 AM  

"...propertarianism is a good set of principles for people who are not Christians..."

You're making a fundamental error. No non-Christian set of principles is "good" for *any* people if Christianity is true. Christianity is true. Ergo...

Blogger Damelon Brinn November 04, 2019 8:43 AM  

Another shit idiocy:
“We are the the most important intellectual movement of the era – the Marxism of the 21st century – and it’s complete inversion:


Pro tip for would-be ideological thought-leaders: get its/it's down before you throw around the ten-dollar words.

Blogger Bernard Korzeniewicz November 04, 2019 8:47 AM  

Somone fails to understand that Jesus = logos. Like all-laws-th-this-universe-in-one-body.
Not following Jesus is not following the logic, the truth the good at cetera.
So to quote Kurgan…

Blogger Rek. November 04, 2019 8:48 AM  

I am a latin Mass going Catholic and most Catholics are making my life quite complicated even Traditionalists. Last Friday one of the Canons at my church mentioned judeo-christian values in his homily. We are going to have a discussion about it.

Blogger Jay Will November 04, 2019 8:53 AM  

Capitalize all the big words for extra profundity.

Blogger Silent Draco November 04, 2019 8:54 AM  

Damelon Brinn, don't know which is worse: the bad grammar, or that TL used the correct word and dropped the mask. 21st C Marxism IS complete inversion of all that is True, Good, and Beautiful.

Blogger Wraithburn November 04, 2019 8:57 AM  

People have told me Moldbug is great, so I finally checked out some of his writing earlier this year. Saw he had written a series on religion titled How Dawkins Got Pwned, so I started with that.

Hated his smart boy writing style, and his sneering contempt for Christianity. The praise of Dawkins as a smart man was amusing after having read TIA, and the pro abortion throw away line was jarring for a Libertarian writer. Muh NAP, except against the weakest, feeblest, most undefended human life there is.

In the end, I also disagree with the thrust of the series. Religion as a virus fundamentally misunderstands religion and Man's spiritual nature. It presupposes religions are an external entity hitchhiking inside Man's Reason, with perhaps some forming a sort of symbiotic relationship to encourage spreading. Approached from this angle, Moldbug gets most everything wrong.

Once I'd gone through that, I found I had no appetite for his opinions on government and society.

Blogger Rek. November 04, 2019 9:11 AM  

Its a status enhancing/signaling manoeuvre. You take a shot at the top dog without coming into real conflict.

Its quite apparent from reading some of the comments.

"Teddy Spaghetti is such a moron. You totally schooled him!!"

Blogger Salden November 04, 2019 9:18 AM  

Richard Dawkins says nationalism is more evil than religion. Just letting you know mike.

Blogger Rek. November 04, 2019 9:19 AM  

Now I should add that the strategy is partially successful. Some gammas will promote and see him as their new king.

In reality though it makes him even more intolerable to most functioning individuals, thats where the delusion bubble kicks in.

Blogger Salden November 04, 2019 9:20 AM  

He's a New Atheist LARPer who hates Christianity and peddles a racist liberalism.

Blogger Rek. November 04, 2019 9:23 AM  

Peterson did the exact same thing at the end of his chat with Milo.

"Say Hi! to Vox for me!"

Its all show and pretence.

If Peterson had wanted to confront Vox, a mail could have been sent months ago.

Blogger Salden November 04, 2019 9:26 AM  

Moldbergstein is a Libertarian Jew. His writings should be viewed with that in consideration.

Blogger tuberman November 04, 2019 9:30 AM  

Didn't pay attention to Doolittle, as I didn't know he exists. Now I know of his existence, but will continue to pay no attention. Alternatives to Christianity? Hmmm.

Blogger VD November 04, 2019 9:36 AM  

Some gammas will promote and see him as their new king.

Fine by me. Someone has to do it.

Blogger Andy Evick November 04, 2019 9:36 AM  

@The Cooler

Haha Multiplicity. "I like pizza!.. She touched my pepe... Hi, Steve."

Blogger tuberman November 04, 2019 9:39 AM  

@Rek

Your take on Doolittle's backhanded address toward Vox is insightful. Thanks.

Blogger Salden November 04, 2019 9:39 AM  

It's telling that both Doolittle and Peterson are more or less New Atheists who see men and the glory of men as the center of all things. Both liberals.

Doolittle's reading list has fedora darlings like Rich Dawk. It's enough.

Blogger wreckage November 04, 2019 9:41 AM  

Christians show up after what? After we spend 2000 years working and bleeding to build a civilization for you useless whining retards to ruin with your idiocy and fetishism? Or after you finish your mass murder spree implementing The Perfect System and we're the only ones left to bury all the emaciated corpses?

Blogger wreckage November 04, 2019 9:44 AM  

"the Marxism of the 21st century – and it’s complete inversion:"
If you invert a large chunky poo, you get an upside-down, large chunky poo.

Blogger Vlad Z. November 04, 2019 9:51 AM  

@Harambe: could you explain the Fedora reference. I've seen it several times but still don't understand what it means.

Blogger JamesB.BKK November 04, 2019 9:56 AM  

I-cannot-stand-fucking-busybodies-ism is as far as I've ever gotten. I think I'll pursue other questions now. Thanks.

Blogger nswhorse November 04, 2019 9:57 AM  

I don't think I've ever encountered someone who loves using too many words as much as Doolittle. Especially words that are clearly meant to be jargon words, though he never bothers with definitions that I've seen. Listening to him speak is even more jarring than his unreadable prose. The guy is cooked.

Blogger Jake November 04, 2019 10:06 AM  

Curt is not a bad guy. He is very full of himself, however. I say this as someone who has interacted with him. But there is something off - something very solipsistic and autistic.
His philosophy it totally materialistic, and very focused on the idea that contracts and enforcement of contracts can solve all the problems of this world.

Blogger Nikolai Collushnikov November 04, 2019 10:08 AM  

New Atheists and Libertarians and other assorted modern "intellectual elites" tend to wear Fedoras

Blogger VD November 04, 2019 10:13 AM  

His philosophy it totally materialistic, and very focused on the idea that contracts and enforcement of contracts can solve all the problems of this world.

I told you he was a midwit. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he's never actually been in a legal dispute over a contract. If that is his philosophy, it is not only evil, it is seriously moronic.

A contract is only as good as the person who stands behind it.

Blogger wreckage November 04, 2019 10:14 AM  

@60 "Clarity of text is the sole incontrovertible sign of the maturity of an idea." Gomez-Davila
This guy seems to be victim of the same conceit Peterson fell to: instead of being a stolid thinker of the second or probably third rank, he wishes to leverage esoterism or hermeticism to hurl himself into the first rank. However, whereas Peterson destroyed himself achieving success, this poor fellow has not even attained that miserable status.
It's all rather sad.

Blogger Dole November 04, 2019 10:25 AM  

Doolittle is not a liberal, and he is a Christian. Molyneux is an atheist and has written books about it, yet I do not hear those criticisms about him. His libertarianism is much more ridiculous than propertarianism, and the book which claims to prove NAP is intellectual fraud.

I am fine with Molyneux too, his actions are far more important than any theory. The attacks on Curt are lazy.

Blogger VD November 04, 2019 10:28 AM  

I do not hear those criticisms about him.

St. Efan is wrong, but he isn't an asshole or a gamma. Nor is he irrelevant.

Doolittle is all four.

Blogger August November 04, 2019 10:32 AM  

Underneath all that opaque language is a willingness to engage in the same sort of empire/deep state foreign policy. When he made that clear, I quickly unfollowed him.

Blogger Dole November 04, 2019 10:38 AM  

@VD

I have never heard Doolittle claim that contracts can fix all evils of the world. He is not a midwit, and has an IQ of at least 150 bare minimum. He made his wealth from a software business, the odds that he avoided any legal disputes are quite small.

Blogger Rickaby007 November 04, 2019 10:39 AM  

Apparently he has a 160 IQ and he is the founder of SMITH. Regardless, he's still a fedora on steroids and his ideology is ridiculous.

Blogger Apathy Is Death November 04, 2019 10:43 AM  

I remember watching a video from Doolittle that was titled something like "What is Propertarianism?", and I was expecting a short, to the point description of the concept. Instead, he took a century, or maybe two centuries to get to the point. He consistently speaks around the idea he has in mind without actually saying it.

So, for the fun of it I opened up The Propertarian Institute's video titled "A Letter to Christians". It is a half-hour long, and instead of getting to the meat of the topic Doolittle's first two minutes are spent talking about falsification, king of the hill games, and other such super smarty pants concepts that I'm certain he believes are completely brand new under the sun, and that his light will be the shining guide to save the world.

Two minutes of zero substance. This is what happens when you stare at your navel for more than one year straight. Vox is right, he is irrelevant, and most probably retarded.

Blogger Gastguma November 04, 2019 10:47 AM  

From his website, propertarianism.com:

What is Propertarianism?

“Propertarianism consists of the completion of the Scientific Method; its application to the totality of human knowledge; a universally commensurable language of all thought; its embodiment in the common law of tort; and as a consequence the eradication of superstition, pseudoscience, sophism, fraud, and deceit from the commercial, financial, economic, political, and informational commons.”
But what does that mean?
It means a body of inviolable law, a constitution built from it, and a system of government that restores, and preserves it, and the uniqueness of Western Civilization for eternity.

Apparently I'm an idiot, because he defines it and explains what it means and I still have no idea what propertarianism is.

And this could be the idiot speaking, but why would he use Vox as an example of a Christian who does nothing when he is one of the few, Christian or otherwise, who are actually doing something?

Blogger Apathy Is Death November 04, 2019 10:49 AM  

@Gastguma

It means nothing, less than nothing even. Word salad, even if that salad has some impressively large words within, is a sure sign of a liar.

Blogger Fozzy Bear November 04, 2019 10:51 AM  

Every explanation I've heard of propertarianism boils down to wishful-thinking on steroids. All we need to do to tikkun olam is to select the proper judges who will ignore the letter of the law and do what propertarians think is proper, then the whole world will run properly with no problems whatsoever. What is proper is just whatever Curt personally thinks is common sense, and once he writes down his common-sense opinions on every issue under the sun we will have a full-fledged body of propertarian law and an answer to every objection.

Blogger Dole November 04, 2019 11:04 AM  

@Fozzy Bear
That is what no one has said. Propertarianism is at least so far more focused on civil war and directly dealing with the enemy than on any legal woodoo, when it comes to practice.

The law is a problem, and there is nothing wrong with someone focusing on that problem. Democracy does not work either.

Blogger Quicksilver November 04, 2019 11:11 AM  

All these utopianists are just snake oil salesmen. Leftists in disguise.

Look at Talebs new principa politica for a truly deeper way of thinking.

Blogger John Best. November 04, 2019 11:15 AM  

It must be frustrating for a midwit when they can't build concepts into abstractions. All they can to a talk endlessly about a concept. This is where the navel gazing comes in and them being a gamma.

Blogger Fozzy Bear November 04, 2019 11:27 AM  

@Dole I refer you to propertarianism dot com slash basic-concepts
3. A Methodology:
i) Epistemology: “The Completion of the Scientific Method and its application to the full scope of human knowledge, resulting in a universal, formal, epistemological method sufficient for adjudication of differences in court.“
ii) Ethics, Law, Politics: “The strict, algorithmic, construction of the natural, common law, of reciprocity (tort);”

Further down it says the courts and the law will be used to fight "mathematical innumeracy, pseudoscience, fundamentalism, sophism, denialism, propaganda and deceit."

It's basically a twisting of the tort of nuisance through a court of equity to allow writs of estoppel to ban any behavior propertarians think is improper. Legal voodoo is literally the entire methodology.

Blogger Jack Amok November 04, 2019 11:28 AM  

His bio:

Curt was born in Bristol Connecticut in 1959, and from the age of two, was raised in rural Canandaigua New York. The family returned to Connecticut in 1976, where he graduated from St. Francis Xavier – a local private boy’s school. He attended the University of Hartford, where he spent one year in engineering, one year in pre-law (political science) before switching to and completing four years in Fine Art and Art History. He either founded or was a principle in a series of technology companies in the greater Northwest, before retiring early to work on philosophy full time, where he founded the Propertarian Institute. He has been married (and divorced) three times, and as of 2012 he resides in Kiev Ukraine. Where he has “… a front row seat to observe the struggle of the Ukrainian people to become a Nation.”

Ukraine. Again.

Blogger James Lovebirch November 04, 2019 11:31 AM  

Moldbug can't be understood until you know he's a secular jew.

Blogger Dole November 04, 2019 11:39 AM  

@Fozzy Bear
Yes, it proposes to fix the law. And no, propertarianism is against arbitrary rule, in fact, radically so.

I am under no illusion that people and values are more important than any law, but it does nut hurt either.

Blogger VD November 04, 2019 12:02 PM  

The attacks on Curt are lazy.

If you think these are attacks, you clearly haven't read Jordanetics. Doolittle is too irrelevant to bother studying enough to attack.

Blogger Dole November 04, 2019 12:06 PM  

@VD

I was referring to the posters above referring to him as liberal and an atheist.

Anyway, you are correct that he is irrelevant so far. Remains to be seen whether propertarianism picks up. Doolittle is not a Gamma, he is not serious with his twitter snark.

Blogger Apathy Is Death November 04, 2019 12:09 PM  

Doolittle is not a Gamma, he is not serious with his twitter snark.

So he was just pretending to be retarded? Brilliant.

Blogger ace November 04, 2019 12:11 PM  

This man's idea might've been forgivable in 2004. I might have even entertained it.

Now? Seriously? This is the ideological equivalent of the blink tag. Deprecated.

Blogger Jack Amok November 04, 2019 12:19 PM  

I'd never heard of Propertarianism before today. I lead a sheltered life sometimes.

The word itself is a poetic clunker, even harder to roll off the tongue than Libertarianism. It's a dialectical failure too, as my first thought was it was an -ism about what was Proper, but of course, it's about Property. So, it's based on property. Fine.

Property is owned by whoever can best support their claim to it. Supporting their claim requires the backing of organized force. Organized force is completely amoral, it will serve Evil, Good, and everything in between. It does't solve the biggest problem, ensuring decent people wield power.

All fedora and no philosophy.

Blogger SirHamster November 04, 2019 12:22 PM  

Checking out this guy's twitter profile, he pinned his own tweet. A tweet quoting himself.

Curt Doolittle
‏@curtdoolittle May 19
--“I want to build a judiciary to decide natural law (Truth). Not a political ideology to influence democracy.”-- Doolittle


Just in case you couldn't tell that the words in the tweet belonged to him, he made sure to quote himself properly.

Alrighty then.

Dole wrote:Doolittle is not a liberal, and he is a Christian.
I don't know any Christians who call people "Xians" who follow a "semitic god of hate."


Gastguma wrote:But what does that mean?

It means a body of inviolable law, a constitution built from it, and a system of government that restores, and preserves it, and the uniqueness of Western Civilization for eternity.

Apparently I'm an idiot, because he defines it and explains what it means and I still have no idea what propertarianism is.

At a glance, he wants to build a perfect Constitution and get a new set of Pharisees to interpret it.

That's already been done, it's called the Old Testament and it was fulfilled in Christ.

Blogger dienw November 04, 2019 12:26 PM  

71. Gastguma

... and I still have no idea what propertarianism is.

You're fine. Doolittle has just strung words and phrases together; before you can realize the meaning of one phrase or the wrongful inclusion of a word, he has written another ridiculous phrase or word.

He throws out the word "science" in the same manner fraudulent writers will throw out the "god" word; most of us are so attuned to feel good about science that we respond to the word's emotional appeal. And while "science" is ringing your bell he throws out " totality of human knowledge;" which cannot, nor will it, ever exist in one place, person, or group of persons; let alone can it be agreed upon. The rest of that paragraph is equally silly.

Blogger weka November 04, 2019 12:31 PM  

And a boomer midwit. Again.

Blogger 7916 November 04, 2019 12:35 PM  

"I suggest you pray that I continue to do so."

I heard:

"But we had a deal!"
"Pray I do not alter it any further"

Your Dark Lording is superior.

Blogger Dole November 04, 2019 12:37 PM  

@SirHamster
The bible is not a document of law, do not be retarded. Can he be considered true Christian, maybe not, he is not very religious. But he is still more Christian than someone who thinks US is a nation of immigrants, or that Jesus was a socialist.

By the way, Vox Day does call these people "Churchians" all the time. I think Curt is mostly referring to that group when he talks about Christians.

The tweets are not serious. It's just twitter attention whoring and attempts to kick people to action. He does it all the time with Stefan Molyneux.

Blogger OGRE November 04, 2019 12:42 PM  

Propertarianism (God, what a despicable word) is little different from the communism of Marx. It has the exact same metaphysical, ethical, and epistemological foundational propositions, yet reaches nearly opposite conclusions. Both -isms consider morality and truth to be but an illusion, a by-product of consciousness, itself a by-product of organic life. Yet over and again neither can escape making normative claims about what 'should' be done, how things 'should' be organized, what beliefs 'should' be held, what 'should' be punished and what 'should' be rewarded. And both make the same fundamental errors of presupposing premises that would negate the inferences and conclusions they reach; when you start with a foundational supposition that Truth and Morality do not exist, you can't then reach a conclusion that relies upon the existence of Truth and Morality.

It is but Philosophy done by scientist, and a quick glance at Neil Degrasse Tyson's twitter feed should clearly demonstrate how embarrassing it is for a scientist-man to attempt this.

The Logical Positivists tried this exact same thing 100 years ago and were savagely ridiculed for it once the veil of intellectual superiority was pulled back. I imagine its just a matter of time till Vox starts the same process here.

Blogger Doktor Jeep November 04, 2019 12:48 PM  

So Dolittle is divorced three times.
Is that a gamma tell?

Blogger Wraithburn November 04, 2019 12:50 PM  

@86 it's also an incredibly stupid quote. The whole idea behind Natural Law is right there in the name! Natural. If you need a Judiciary to decide it, you're doing it wrong.

Blogger xevious2030 November 04, 2019 1:06 PM  

“Tallent Curt Dolittle – The Philosopher”

“What is Propertarianism Not? It is not an ideology, a philosophy, a theology.”

“What is Propertarianism? […] and a system of government that restores, and preserves it, and the uniqueness of Western Civilization for eternity.”

“So we get it wrong as usual, because we're so infected by jewish, christian, liberal, and communist propaganda.”

[read again, “infected by […] christian […] propaganda] The four parts of his Twitter “test” leave out Christianity being important because God.

“Scientific method,” “law,” blah, blah, blah, vomit, vomit, vomit.

He’s a fucking moron. System, eternity, f-ing moron.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 04, 2019 1:26 PM  

https://twitter.com/curtdoolittle/status/1191420504730718214?s=19

He's even more delusional than JBP

Blogger Uindo November 04, 2019 1:26 PM  

@Dole ''By the way, Vox Day does call these people "Churchians" all the time. I think Curt is mostly referring to that group when he talks about Christians.''

A word of caution: you are doing Curt's explaining for him. Find his words not what you imagine him to be. The thing happened with JBP where he made himself into the shapeshifting idol. People bent themselves into pretzels trying to reconcile their idol with their own ideals because they wanted so badly for jbp to be the hero they were waiting for. I think 'semetic god of hate' is sufficient for his opinion on Jesus Christ and the Father.

If you have to explain for him in a way he's never stated it's a sign that he is scamming you. The best scams get you to do all the mental legwork for them.

Blogger xevious2030 November 04, 2019 1:26 PM  

At least Peterson rambled, mildly entertaining to follow in a mind numbing background noise sense. Doolittle’s use of logic resembles a faceplant until his kneecaps wear through.

Blogger Apathy Is Death November 04, 2019 1:26 PM  

Quotations from Curt: -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R8C1CYOASM --

This is great advertising. You make us look good. omg... Notes: 1) You think the federal government, if they could find anyone bright enough, and would choose a spergy a set of arguments that very few people can understand? ;) 2) the video was meant to be, and is, hyperbolic which my demeanor demonstrates. I am not very good at humor. ;) 3) Eugenics is what it is - it doesn't mean exterminating people, it means making them cheap enough 4) I like being a james bond villain. I need a white furry cat... lol. Really. I'm gonna make a white fuzzy cat my profile pic. 5) Orwoll confused my writing of plans (geek war gaming and not government related), with contracting (government related) but it's forgivable - it's been a few years. 6) Spencer and NWG are leaders??? lol ... of whom? OK.... well, Paranoia is the outlet for male lack of agency just as 'crazy' is the outlet for female lack of agency. I fking LOVE the tinfoil hat crowd's criticisms. It just makes us more acceptable to the mainstream. (Thank you for this. I'm saving this one for my grandchildren... lol) OMG. I'm gonna die laughing. We gotta pump up your numbers by sharing this... lol.

Whew boy, very spergy.

I understand you are weak and fearful. If you are weak and fearful you have no value. I am not trying to unite the right tribes. Just to attract the people who are not weak and fearful. There are plenty. You can thank them if they succeed.

This man calls himself Christian?

There is no movement. Only internal comforting with hollow, insipid, inspiration. The only movements that matter are those with solutions, plans, and willingness to take personal risks for collective gains. I may fail but at least we have a solution and a plan rather than excuses and platitudes. -cheers.

It is no surprise this man has been divorced three times.

Blogger SirHamster November 04, 2019 1:39 PM  

Dole wrote:@SirHamster

The bible is not a document of law, do not be retarded.

The religiously ignorant retard shouldn't go around calling others retarded. The Bible has this thing called the Law of Moses. You are not tall enough for this blog.

Can he be considered true Christian, maybe not, he is not very religious. But he is still more Christian than someone who thinks US is a nation of immigrants, or that Jesus was a socialist.
Then both of you are not Christians. Trying to fake being a Christian for acceptance is stupid dishonesty.

A stupid Christian who mistakenly believes the US is a nation of immigrants, or that Jesus was a socialist, is still a Christian as long as he accepts Jesus as Lord. I reject all attempts to divide Christ's church.

The chances you are a Christian after pushing that kind of lie is pretty low.

Do you think anyone's going to trust you now that you've outed yourself?

By the way, Vox Day does call these people "Churchians" all the time. I think Curt is mostly referring to that group when he talks about Christians.
Doolittle is lumping Vox in with Xians, using Vox's behavior as evidence that "Xians" steal credit for a "semitic god of hate".

That fact that you and he are not criticizing "Xians" from a Christ-centered point of view is telling. You're not one of us, pretending to be a Christian comes from dishonesty and false motives.

The tweets are not serious. It's just twitter attention whoring and attempts to kick people to action. He does it all the time with Stefan Molyneux.
Trying to defend your "Christian" guy as an attention whore is damning with faint praise. Why are you following whores?

As Vox says, irrelevant.

Blogger VD November 04, 2019 2:16 PM  

He's even more delusional than JBP

(nods) At least Peterson knows something is wrong with him. Doolittle thinks something is wrong with everyone else.

Blogger Wilkes Marprelate November 04, 2019 2:18 PM  

Yep, I started to get into the Propertarian position a bit and thought it was closer to Vox's views, though it did seem to exclude Christianity more than I cared for. At first the proponents of it seemed to play nice to win over Christians who were not pleased with the seeming anti-Christian position it had (and seeing Christianity as just a somewhat better version of Judaism), but more recently their hostility to Christianity is becoming more apparent. I still agree with the basic thrust of many things they say (more so on things that are commonly held by anyone who is 'Dissident Right') but I just can't affirm things that cut Christ out of it and, more so, play games about the issue (which is rather Gamma).

Blogger The Cooler November 04, 2019 2:22 PM  

1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 04, 2019 2:23 PM  

If this clown is 160 IQ, which I don't believe for a picosecond, then he has carefully trained himself never to complete a thought.

Blogger anorganicbear November 04, 2019 2:33 PM  

"Semitic God"

Apparently he doesn't know Christ came to save the gentiles too.

Blogger xevious2030 November 04, 2019 2:43 PM  

"If this clown is 160 IQ, which I don't believe for a picosecond, then he has carefully trained himself never to complete a thought."

It's like my uncle, 160, dumb as a box of rocks. Capability and what is actually done with it are not synonymous. The more you believe the lie, the less IQ is meaningful beyond certain utility in areas not dependent on truth.

Blogger Dole November 04, 2019 2:46 PM  

@Uindo

Curt Doolittle himself gives the reason why he calls out Christians right before the tweet...

"1) Are Christians really all nothing more than virtue signaling cucks, hiding behind a veil faith to mask cowardice, laziness, and lack of agency, or will they fight for their people? We almost never find a 'devout' Christian willing to fight. Ever. They always have an excuse. They won't show up without a guarantee. They won't fight until it doesn't matter, and like women with small children, wantto show up and get an everbody-wins-prize if other men do the winning. I mean, isn't christian tolerance just an excuse to gossip rally and shame while one leftist program after another undermines our civlization? Does christian really mean "I'm a domesticated human farm animal and I need to follow the herd in safety, ignorance and bliss?"

Now obviously he does not know Vox... but there is some truth to what he says when it comes to certain subset of Christianity.

Blogger The CronoLink November 04, 2019 2:55 PM  

You don't understand, Vox, he never errs! :V

Blogger Alen November 04, 2019 3:01 PM  

JAG wrote:The in-fighting is very much needed to weed out the fakes and grifters like Charlie Kirk, Sebastian Gorka,

How is Gorka a grifter?

He still supports Trump, just 2 days ago on his FB he posted this: "We have one year to re-elect President Donald J. Trump and KAG..."‬

If he was a grifter, he would just move on to the next profit-making thing, but this now suspiciously looks like long-term loyalty, which I have to like.

Blogger FP November 04, 2019 3:09 PM  

Dude is wordy for a dolittle.

@95

Well then.

"You are wasting your time."

Clearly Curt, I am.

Blogger Primus Pilus November 04, 2019 3:10 PM  

The only proper response to anything Dolittle says is "OK Boomer".

Blogger xevious2030 November 04, 2019 3:27 PM  

"Curt Doolittle himself gives the reason why he calls out Christians right"

Look at all four. In all of them, Christianity is only valued as a utility, not how Christians fail to live up to Christianity. His understanding of European Civilization includes pre-Christian, and the sky gods of then were only beneficial as a utility. He reads (not trolls) as having no allegiance to divinity, only supporting the notion of divinity to the degree that it gets people to fight to protect European civilization. Presenting things in his terms, his definitions. Nothing about salvation, nothing about heaven, nothing about how Europe finally came to accept the true God. No, just human systems, some perfect sort he and his sort will come up with that will protect us for all time, by human hands. That is not Christian, at all. Not even a little bit. And it sucks to be you, because he will probably will never be relevant enough for a Doodelnetics book to spell it all out for you, and you'll have to go through the long process without shortcuts.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 04, 2019 3:31 PM  

Doodelnetics ftw

Blogger Dole November 04, 2019 4:05 PM  

@xevious2030

He is not a very good Christian. He clearly is not very religious... Never argued as much. Goes to the Church and that's it. If that is a problem, you should have nothing to do with him.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 04, 2019 4:16 PM  

Dole wrote:He is not a very good Christian. He clearly is not very religious... Never argued as much. Goes to the Church and that's it.
Not "He is not a very good Christian".
He's "not a Christian at all."
Many, many non-Christians go to church. Probably a majority in some places. Entire denominations, Episcopalians and Unitarians come to mind, are almost wholly bereft of Christians.
The quotes provided demonstrate not only non-Christianity, his hostility and naked materialism mark him as an anti-Christian.

Blogger Apathy Is Death November 04, 2019 4:19 PM  

Propertarianism

noun

1) A proposed system of thought that has no clearly laid out definition other than a long list of various other supposedly relevant social, legal, religious, scientific, ideological, and philosophical terms having already been previously defined in the Western tradition. These terms also may, or may not be used as they were already defined, as the creator of Propertarianism often alters existing definitions, or even goes so far as to conjure entirely new terms and definitions by himself.

This system of thought proclaims that an interconnectedness of these terms ultimately link back to itself in spirit, and that this system of thought--Propertarianism--is the completion of what those traditional systems of thought aimed to accomplish.

What that aim was, as claimed by this system of thought, is the eternal preservation of Western Civilization.

2) Absolute bullshit.

Blogger SirHamster November 04, 2019 4:23 PM  

@Dole

Two direct questions:
1. Are you a Christian?
2. What is a Christian?

Blogger mike November 04, 2019 6:40 PM  

What some leftist thinks has nothing to do with me. And 'projection'? Thats cute.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 04, 2019 6:40 PM  

I've had words with Doolittle. He's a lying troll who doesn't know the meaning of the words he uses often as not. Even if his IQ was north of 190, if all that can be derived from him is a mix of lies and gobbledygook, why should anyone care?

Reality check though. This guy is so delusional that the only appropriate metaphor for his intellectual rigour is that he breathes his own farts, and nothing else. His continual use of words he doesn't understand doesn't bode well for his IQ being north of even 110.

Blogger The Pitchfork Rebel November 04, 2019 6:51 PM  

@62

"New Atheists and Libertarians and other assorted modern "intellectual elites" tend to wear Fedoras"

They wear cheap replicas from Target. Worse, the damn things are stingy-brim hybrids that are half Fedora and half Trilby.





Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 04, 2019 6:53 PM  

"It's like my uncle, 160, dumb as a box of rocks. Capability and what is actually done with it are not synonymous."

I can read Langan's CTMU. It's hard as rocks and takes a well rested, alert state of mind and some sitting and thinking for every paragraph. Doolittle's work is gibberish with pretensions of intelligence. If he has a test result that says he's 160 IQ, it's not reputable. Even a maniacally dishonest and deluded 160 IQ could write better gibberish than that.

"Now obviously he does not know Vox..."

He's tried to peddle his trash on this blog before. He knows.

Blogger Dole November 04, 2019 7:11 PM  

@Azure Amaranthine

Lagan's CTMU is exactly the type of work Doolittle would easily classify as hopeless platonism. One reason I like Doolittle is, he easily identifies high IQ nonsense.

Blogger Damelon Brinn November 04, 2019 7:17 PM  

It is no surprise this man has been divorced three times.

The three marriages, on the other hand....

Blogger nyan November 04, 2019 7:41 PM  

Having just engaged with him on Twitter over his blatant self-contradiction, there's no way this fellow is above JBP in IQ. This is someone who, when confronted with an itemized list of obvious self-contradictions, replies with "debate me" and a bunch of asinine character attacks. (If the specifics interest you, I'm "RedeemedCat" on Twitter; IMO it was hilarious.)

Blogger Thesmith November 04, 2019 7:44 PM  

I'm always astounded how fast people on this website reject foreign ideas and how quickly they accept others.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 04, 2019 7:52 PM  

"Lagan's CTMU is exactly the type of work Doolittle would easily classify as hopeless platonism. One reason I like Doolittle is, he easily identifies high IQ nonsense."

You're projecting.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 04, 2019 8:04 PM  

"I'm always astounded how fast people on this website reject foreign ideas and how quickly they accept others."

Doolittle has been around here before.

Blogger Dole November 04, 2019 8:05 PM  

@Azure Amaranthine
I am not super familiar with CTMU, but it does sound like a masterpiece in platonism. Langan sounds like Cantor 2.0, who came to hold the opinion that the greatest infinity is God, and then went insane.

Might want to think twice what you criticize.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 04, 2019 8:16 PM  

"I am not super familiar with CTMU, but it does sound like a masterpiece in platonism."

Oh, where have I heard that before, talking about something and then when called out on it admitting that you haven't actually any experience with it at all.

Oh right, Doolittle himself. You're an idiot, Doolittle.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 04, 2019 8:16 PM  

Don't have any knowledge and yet still have an opinion that you are convinced is relevant.

Blogger VD November 04, 2019 8:18 PM  

Might want to think twice what you criticize.

You should definitely not talk about what you clearly don't know or understand. To say that you are not convincing anyone here that they are even remotely wrong about Doolittle would be an understatement.

Blogger Dan Karelian November 04, 2019 8:19 PM  

I second OGRE's point. Propertarianism or any other Anglo-empiricist derivative has no epistemic foundation to start making normative claims about anything. That is baked in their materialistic metaphysic.

OTOH Langan's CTMU could seriously benefit from it's own glossary, so the guy would spend less time explaining his concepts and how they relate on Quora.

Blogger xevious2030 November 04, 2019 8:20 PM  

“Even a maniacally dishonest and deluded 160 IQ could write better gibberish than that”

Depends. If I sat down with my uncle to code and database, I would concede being a comparative moron. Like a big f-ingmoron. In matters of truth, it is reversed. Because he is a high IQ gamma that embraces lie in that area. Ask around about visualizing the packing of a car trunk. Your conception of what high IQ is, and what high IQ actually is, is not consistent. Distribution is not equal across the board. To put another way, have read some (very little, but some) of CTMU, and it looked like nice clean prose.

Doolittle reads like a midwit though, haven’t looked it up, benefit of the doubt because don’t care.

Blogger Dole November 04, 2019 8:22 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Dole November 04, 2019 8:40 PM  

@Azure Amaranthine No, I said I am not VERY familiar with it. Logically proving God, just like Cantor's work, is the intellectual version of the Tower of Babel. Why not just pick up the Holy Bible.

From the shallow understanding that I do have, I am quite confident which God he is searching for, and that God is Plato.

Langan is at least as megalomaniacal in the field of logic as Curt is in ideology. Most people here are commenting on Curt based on a single tweet, I think it's fine for me to comment on CTMU without reading the entire literature. At least I admit as much.

Blogger Salden November 04, 2019 8:45 PM  

Reminder that liberals like mike and Doolittle are advocates of a rootless atom society who have no reliable opposition to immigration, homosexuality, excess consumption and screwing over the community (also called "Capitalism"), etc.

Blogger Damelon Brinn November 04, 2019 8:56 PM  

I'm always astounded how fast people on this website reject foreign ideas and how quickly they accept others.

Efficiency. The faster you can recognize bullshit, the better.

Blogger Apathy Is Death November 04, 2019 9:08 PM  

The three marriages, on the other hand....

$$$

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 04, 2019 9:36 PM  

"Your conception of what high IQ is, and what high IQ actually is, is not consistent. Distribution is not equal across the board."

True, it's not equally distributed.

However, if you can see that he doesn't have it in verbal or abstract, and those are the only shown work....

What kind of person only puts their worst foot forward? Maybe an idiot savant with no friends to protect them from themselves.

"Logically proving God, just like Cantor's work, is the intellectual version of the Tower of Babel."

You just stepped into the wrong hornets' nest.

And if you knew what you were talking about, you didn't even have to.

"Most people here are commenting on Curt based on a single tweet"

Most people are not me. You are talking to me. You are not tall enough for this ride. Curt's been here before. Curt is an idiot. I might disagree with Langan, maybe, but he's at least done solid work. Doolittle has done the sort of work you can't recognize as serious.

Blogger Salden November 04, 2019 9:40 PM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AXQ7dDedsI

E.M. Jones says all you should hear on Anti-Christians in the "Alt-Right."

Blogger Dole November 04, 2019 9:50 PM  

@Azure Amaranthine
I can confidently say that I do not give a crap whether I am tall enough for your ride or not - I do not even want in it. Propertarianism may be worthless, but your insults hold no sway on the matter. At least I do not confuse insults with an argument, bare minimum for a reasonable discussion.

If you have a case, present it and cut the crap.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 04, 2019 9:51 PM  

Like if you were to open the door of a clown car, any sane person would say, "why am I next to a clown car", or at least salute Honkler since they're there anyway. Curt would climb out of the clown car decked out in purple-embroidered pantaloons and a peculiarly squat and narrow-brimmed bowler, with a proclamation along the lines of "the concepts of prisca sapientia and gods are irreconcilable".

Or, sorry, that bafflegarble would be over his head, more like, "complete the demarcation between truth (science), philosophy (choice), and the sophism and pseudoscience – particularly in metaphysics – that occupies the vast majority of what passes for philosophical prose." which is a real quote from him.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 04, 2019 9:52 PM  

"At least I do not confuse insults with an argument, bare minimum for a reasonable discussion."

You aren't capable of what passes for an argument around here. Insults though, are understood by nearly everyone.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 04, 2019 9:53 PM  

I read about 20 tweets of his today, and read his garbage answers to my comments. Is that enough? The man is a walking word salad. He's tossing the salad with a blindfold on.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 04, 2019 10:02 PM  

"The Talmud to deceive
The Bible to undermine
The Koran to conquer
The Manifesto to steal
The General-Theory to impoverish
The Critique to exterminate

The Truth to make us free
The Law to keep us free"


Oh look, another Doolittleism.

You were saying he was Christian?

Here is an argument. What benefit is freedom? If freedom is not objectively good and yet Propertarianism solely seeks it, Propertarianism is necessarily either stupid or evil, and possibly both.

Here is a second. How does the law make us free? It specifies precisely the opposite. Law is a tool the purpose of which is delineation of unacceptable actions, that they may be sanctioned or punished.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 04, 2019 10:03 PM  

The man considers science to be the sole legitimate arbiter of truth. He's a materialist atheist at best.

Blogger xevious2030 November 04, 2019 10:07 PM  

“However, if you can see that he doesn't have it in verbal or abstract, and those are the only shown work....”

This is true, no doubt about it.

Blogger Dole November 04, 2019 10:18 PM  

@Azure Amaranthine
After I ask you to present a case, you come back with more insults, telling me that it is me who does not know how to argue. The irony... Dunning-Kruger at its best.

"The man considers science to be the sole legitimate arbiter of truth. He's a materialist atheist at best."

Where?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 04, 2019 11:53 PM  

He straight out says that science is truth, repeatedly. What did you think "complete the demarcation between truth (science)" meant? Or do you even do that?

"Dunning-Kruger at its best."

I see that you've encountered your classification before.

We already established that you didn't understand argument. Then the insults started, because emotion is the language we can be sure you speak.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 05, 2019 12:01 AM  

You: "He's a good guy, you guys agree on most things, he's a Christian."

Followed quickly by:

Several others: "No, he's explicitly anti-christian."

You: "Well, he's not a very GOOD Christian."

Other people: "No, he's definitely not a Christian at all, from reading his work."

You: "Well I'm not actually very familiar with his work."

Me: "Why the is your orifice hanging open and unpleasantly yammering when, zero for two, you never know what you're talking about?"

So, which is it, are you a knowing liar, or a projecting idiot?

Blogger James Fox Higgins November 05, 2019 1:48 AM  

I've interviewed Curt a couple of times on my YouTube channel and had lots of interactions with him and his closest followers in the Propertarian movement. I consider Curt a friend, and I think he'd say the same of me, though we're not close.

Here's my understanding and take (subject to future change with more information, of course):

- Curt is not a faithful Christian, in the sense that he doesn't believe in the literal truth of the Gospel. He does, however, believe in the pragmatism of religion, and practises Catholicism in his personal life as a sort of "mindfulness" exercise, as he puts it.

- He is a materialist, and only views "gods" as archetypes that can be used as psychological and cultural tools to steer society in a positive direction.

- He sees Christianity as the inescapable and best monotheistic religion, and though he has been hostile towards it in the past, he has lately made it clear that he knows it's not going anywhere and that the West needs the Church to survive.

- He calls himself a pagan, and he prays to Odin and his ancestors, though I don't think he personally believes in any gods or ghosts. He believes man is destined to become God, and this is probably the most satanic of his views, though my sense of the man on a personal level is that he may be wrong and serving the hubris of man in this area, but he is not wicked. I could be wrong of course, but I have an affection for Curt on a personal level that is hard to get past even when I disagree with him on many things.

- He's terribly inconsistent in how he represents his views online; he's often changing his position, and he calls it "king of the hill games", or "tests" (a la social experiments) but it leaves many people (understandably) thinking he is just a bullshit artist.

- He is quite explicit about wanting civil war to break out in the USA ASAP. He spends a lot of time agitating for it, and prompting the grassroots right to be ready for it with equipment and 4GW skills. Many accuse him of being a "Fed" because he advocates for war so openly.

- He wants a total legal and geographical divorce from the Left.

- He is writing his new constitution which is so far incomplete.

- There are many areas in which Curt and Vox sing a similar, if not identical tune. I don't believe this necessitates alliance, but it's worth taking full account for the people here who are interested in Propertarianism (Vox not being one of those, of course). I won't clog up the thread here with a full list, but in short Curt and Vox are similar in their views on Libertarianism, the false dichotomy of individualism/collectivism, the reality of race/nationalism, the incompatibility of Western civilisation with Talmudic Judaism, and the degeneracy of freedom of speech.

As I said, I've read a lot of Doolittle, and spoken to him a number of times in hours-long conversations. I have an IQ of 151 and a strong grasp of English, and I don't understand a lot of what Curt says, and sometimes it seems like sophistry and word-games to me, but I also think it just comes down to Curt being autistic and a terrible communicator. He has little empathy for his reader. He has found a couple of strong spokespersons for his movement in Eli Harman and John Mark, the latter of which is not totally irrelevant, given his ~85k subs on YouTube.

I think Vox's dismissal of Propertarianism might be premature, which is why I am interested in any thoughts he might share on some of the ideas presented, but I respect Vox's right to not give a damn and I have been personally trying to keep an open dialogue as a genuine Christian with the Propertarians because I believe (perhaps wrongly) that the movement will be highly relevant in the future.

I hope this take has been of value to some of the readers here, and I only write it because I respect both Vox and Curt, for very different reasons.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 05, 2019 2:22 AM  

James Fox Higgins wrote:I have an IQ of 151 and a strong grasp of English, and I don't understand a lot of what Curt says, and sometimes it seems like sophistry and word-games to me, but I also think it just comes down to Curt being autistic and a terrible communicator.
There could be another explanation that doesn't involve him being some +5SD super genius. It could be that he's a terrible thinker, trying to communicate things that don't make sense.

Blogger SirHamster November 05, 2019 2:29 AM  

James Fox Higgins wrote:- Curt is not a faithful Christian, in the sense that he doesn't believe in the literal truth of the Gospel. He does, however, believe in the pragmatism of religion, and practises Catholicism in his personal life as a sort of "mindfulness" exercise, as he puts it.
"Not a faithful Christian" tries to leave open the door to being a bad Christian.

But believing in religion doesn't make one a Christian, any more than it makes one a Buddhist or Muslim.

- He sees Christianity as the inescapable and best monotheistic religion ...
- He calls himself a pagan, and he prays to Odin and his ancestors ... He believes man is destined to become God, and this is probably the most satanic of his views ...

If you're 151 IQ, you should recognize we're well past the point you should stop wasting everyone's time on an indefensible position.

Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't make it a hot chick.

This pagan-satanic-whatever knows enough to be a Christian and chooses not to. The Christians here know what it means to be a Christian and can easily tell that he isn't one.

Why be afraid of accurate labels?

James Fox Higgins wrote:... the movement will be highly relevant in the future.
If the philosopher behind it is confused enough to simultaneously think Christianity is the best religion yet chooses his pagan LARP instead, he isn't a serious thinker and his movement is DOA.

If you're a Christian, why pay attention to substandard Christ-less foundations?

Blogger James Fox Higgins November 05, 2019 2:35 AM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:James Fox Higgins wrote:I have an IQ of 151 and a strong grasp of English, and I don't understand a lot of what Curt says, and sometimes it seems like sophistry and word-games to me, but I also think it just comes down to Curt being autistic and a terrible communicator.

There could be another explanation that doesn't involve him being some +5SD super genius. It could be that he's a terrible thinker, trying to communicate things that don't make sense.


Yes, of course that is possible, and is probably true some of the time, but I have perceived enough truth in a lot of his writing that I think it doesn't account for everything.

He's very interested in developing or redesigning the English language to remove conflation. I think it would be a valuable outcome were it achievable, but I'm not convinced that it is, given what a crowd-sourced, decentralised, mongrel of a language English is.

I don't really know what to make of Curt beyond what I have stated above, but I do like the guy. I totally understand why a lot of people hate him, and I've given up trying to follow along with everything Curt says and does, but I still find his project interesting and not without value.

His distinction of "property in toto" is particularly useful in helping Libertarians understand why radical individualism is a dead end based on falsehoods. Curt cured me of my upper-case Libertarianism with that idea.

Blogger James Fox Higgins November 05, 2019 2:51 AM  

SirHamster wrote:

"Not a faithful Christian" tries to leave open the door to being a bad Christian.

But believing in religion doesn't make one a Christian, any more than it makes one a Buddhist or Muslim.


I'm not saying he's a bad Christian or a Christian of any kind, I'm sorry my words were imprecise there. What I mean is that he is certainly not "of the faith". I should have said "he is faithless, and not a Christian".

If you're 151 IQ, you should recognize we're well past the point you should stop wasting everyone's time on an indefensible position.

People are free to choose to not read my comment, or not reply. I don't consider discussion of ideas (even bad ones) a waste of my own time, and if I was wrong to think that others here might find my thoughts on this of some value, then I'll desist, of course.

Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't make it a hot chick.

This is certainly true, and a funny analogy. Saved for future use.

This pagan-satanic-whatever knows enough to be a Christian and chooses not to. The Christians here know what it means to be a Christian and can easily tell that he isn't one.

As stated above, I agree that he is not one, as I said.

Why be afraid of accurate labels?

I'm not afraid of them at all, in fact I value them greatly, but that doesn't mean I'm always perceptive or erudite enough to apply them.

If the philosopher behind it is confused enough to simultaneously think Christianity is the best religion yet chooses his pagan LARP instead, he isn't a serious thinker and his movement is DOA.

You've misunderstood me. I said that Curt views Christianity as the best of the monotheistic religions. His pagan larping is due to his reframing of all gods and ghosts as psychological tools with pragmatic effect when prayed to. I don't agree with his position on this of course, I'm simply relaying what I know about his views from my conversations with him.

If you're a Christian, why pay attention to substandard Christ-less foundations?

Because I hold out hope that Jesus Christ is powerful enough to penetrate the mind and soul of someone even so far from him as Curt Doolittle, and my presence in Curt's world, my genuine interest in his ideas (as well as my honest push back), and my friendship are more likely to help him come to genuine faith in Lord Jesus than my dismissal or ignorance of him.

Besides that, a Christian ignores the enemy (or anyone serving him) at his peril. If you think Curt serves evil... well... you should know your enemy, no?

Blogger Jack Amok November 05, 2019 2:53 AM  

He's very interested in developing or redesigning the English language to remove conflation.

FFS, of course, before we solve our problems, we need to revamp the fucking language. Where have I heard that before?

I read what I could tolerate of his website. I am reminded of Mark Twain. "I'm sorry for creating such a large website, but my thinking isn't coherent enough to create a more concise one..."

Why oh why must we be subjected to so many people who see word salad and assume it must be genius rather than the incoherent ramblings of a midwit that it so obviously is.

Blogger Boaty Bear November 05, 2019 2:56 AM  

Whittle shows his Boomer Colours constantly, i was slow, it took me a while but last year, I was done with him, I did watch his Boomer rant and it just confirmed.

Blogger James Fox Higgins November 05, 2019 2:56 AM  

SirHamster wrote:
This pagan-satanic-whatever knows enough to be a Christian and chooses not to.

I would also respectfully add that I believe faith does not necessarily emerge from knowledge. Faith is a gift, and all religious understanding in the world may not bring forth faith in God, and the salvation that comes with it. I pray that God will bless Curt with faith, as He did me (via Jordan B Peterson, of all devils to lead me to the water!).

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 05, 2019 3:49 AM  

James, I appreciate your sincerity.

However, caution is advised in promoting Curt here. It will likely end up exposing him to a level of strict criticism and pushback that he is neither mentally nor spiritually equipped to weather.

If you feel that the time is right for him to face that sort of difficulty and negative exposure of himself, and that you would be able to support him, and he able to bear that way toward Christ....

Otherwise, best to keep his head down and continue your laying of groundwork.

Blogger James Fox Higgins November 05, 2019 4:48 AM  

@158 Azure Amaranthine

Thanks for that feedback. My honest belief is that if a person or set of ideas can't survive the scrutiny of intelligent, enquiring minds, then it deserves to be torn apart.

Vox destroyed Jordan Peterson, for me and many of his devotees. The only people hanging on to JBP today are either total ignoramuses, or fellow deceivers. I don't think Curt is entirely right or entirely wrong. I don't think he's a midwit, but I also acknowledge that he is a dreadful exponent of his own ideas and that others do it better on his behalf.

It's clear that Vox is not going to bother dissecting Propertarianism in the way he did Petersonianism, because Curt is not influencing as many people as JBP did, and that's fair enough - Vox's time is better spent promoting the good, the true, and the beautiful until a threat to those appears that warrants an assault. But I would be very interested in seeing the best and brightest go to work on Curt, and I think Curt would be able to emotionally weather it just fine. If his ideas don't stand that trial, then they deserve to die.

In the above comments I've seen a lot of smug rhetoric, people claiming that it's obvious that Curt's a moron and that his ideas are stupid, but I haven't seen a lot of genuine dialectical engagement with those ideas. I'd like to see that, here or somewhere else, because I've been looking at Propertarianism for a few years now, as sceptically as possible, I'm not a midwit - though I have been fooled before (by JBP and the atheists) - and I don't think it's so obvious that Propertarianism is entirely bunkum. I think there are some ideas that are well worth a genuine dissection, at the very least to separate the wheat from the chaff.

In short, strict criticism of Curt and Propertarianism is what I am inviting, at least for my own benefit, and I'll be watching and very open to anyone who can dismantle Propertarianism systematically, with patient dialectic.

That someone is not going to be Vox, sadly for me, but I totally understand why. This blog is also probably not the place for it, so maybe if there's anyone here who has read enough Doolittle and feels motivated to tackle it, they can come on my show for a chat. I'd like that.

Blogger James Fox Higgins November 05, 2019 5:45 AM  

@158 Azure Amaranthine

ADDENDUM: You've made some excellent arguments above Azure, and I'd like to read more of them, or have a conversation about Propertarianism with you.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 05, 2019 6:44 AM  

JFH,

We've seen enough of Dr. Doolittle in one day to know he's a blithering idiot who strings big words together to look smart. There are tells that give you away, and we all have them. Curt's tells are exactly what we've seen before with others of his stripe.

Blogger xevious2030 November 05, 2019 7:15 AM  

“People are free to choose to not read my comment, or not reply.”

Aside from your comparison to Vox, which I’m not addressing either way, your take on Dololittle in your first post (151IQ) is precisely the impression I got from reading a little of his stuff. He has the focus on utility, compared to the masses, which function on belief. His ideas, if they are where he honestly stands, are DOA. And his ideas, no God, minds like his with an eternal system, preying on people’s beliefs and faith for utility, that is the very essence of Satanic.

Blogger The Cooler November 05, 2019 7:16 AM  

Those desperate to be led will be, this is certain.

Blogger VD November 05, 2019 9:04 AM  

I can confidently say that I do not give a crap whether I am tall enough for your ride or not - I do not even want in it.

So go away already. We have zero interest in you or your proselytizing for a delusional pagan pseudo-philosopher with visions of self-grandeur.

What part of "Curt Doolittle and Propertarianism are irrelevant" do you not understand?

Blogger Dole November 05, 2019 10:07 AM  

@VD I came here to discuss Curt and share my thoughts on him, not for a rhetorical battle. That being said, if someone makes a baseless insult against me I insult back.

I would rather stay and discuss the topic. I find Curt's work interesting, which summarizes my thoughts on him so far. He has not even published the work on propertarianism in full yet. I most definitely did not come here to convince anyone, in fact I am not convinced myself.

I admitted and know first hand that he is irrelevant. I still find many of his stances interesting.

Blogger SirHamster November 05, 2019 11:19 AM  

James Fox Higgins wrote:I'm not saying he's a bad Christian or a Christian of any kind, I'm sorry my words were imprecise there. What I mean is that he is certainly not "of the faith". I should have said "he is faithless, and not a Christian".
Fair enough, I read your comment emphasizing the similarities and common ground between Vox and Doolittle in light of Dole calling him a Christian.

Besides that, a Christian ignores the enemy (or anyone serving him) at his peril. If you think Curt serves evil... well... you should know your enemy, no?
It's not about who he serves, and more that the intellectual foundation is already shown to have cracks. That's all you need to know that the structure is unsound. That also acts against there ever being a relevant movement.

That's a separate concern from evangelizing to the individual Curt.

James Fox Higgins wrote:In the above comments I've seen a lot of smug rhetoric, people claiming that it's obvious that Curt's a moron and that his ideas are stupid, but I haven't seen a lot of genuine dialectical engagement with those ideas.
A lot?

Direct question: Point out the posts that you think are smug rhetoric without genuine dialectical engagement. You said there are a lot, you should be able to get 3 examples, easy.

If there aren't at least 3, you're using dishonest rhetorical reframing.

I think there are some ideas that are well worth a genuine dissection, at the very least to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Then go ahead and point those ideas out and why you think they matter.

You think the movement is relevant and that Vox needs to take a second look. Pick the most important idea that you think Propertarianism has.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 05, 2019 12:45 PM  

James Fox Higgins wrote:He's very interested in developing or redesigning the English language to remove conflation. I think it would be a valuable outcome were it achievable, but I'm not convinced that it is, given what a crowd-sourced, decentralised, mongrel of a language English is.
Aaaaand, you want proof he's a midwit moron? The problem is never the language. The problem is he's incapable of thinking.

Dole wrote:He has not even published the work on propertarianism in full yet. I most definitely did not come here to convince anyone, in fact I am not convinced myself.
He never will publish it in full yet. He's smart enough to read what he writes and know that it doesn't make sense. Every time he tries to describe it, it's always in terms of other philosophies, institutions, and ideas that do make sense. WTH is "the fulfillment of Science"? Science is a process, and a necessarily open-ended one at that. It can't be fulfilled. This and a hundred other tells give away the fact that his so-called philosophy is an incoherent mess.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 05, 2019 2:57 PM  

"That being said, if someone makes a baseless insult against me I insult back."

So you consider truth to be baseless. Checks with chart.

"It's not about who he serves, and more that the intellectual foundation is already shown to have cracks."

Autoreferential swiss-cheese with no foundation at all. He considers Man to be the only meter of Man, tautologically. If that doesn't ring intuitive warning bells for someone, they need to be kept from wandering into those woods by themselves.

"people claiming that it's obvious that Curt's a moron and that his ideas are stupid"

It is apparent from certain perspectives. Moron is used less precicely, but fool is quite precise. Anyone who incorrigeably speaks about things they know nothing about will inevitably look very stupid to anyone with any knowledge about those things, and is functionally a fool in that regard.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 05, 2019 3:25 PM  

His first description of what Propertarianism is reads like something produced by abusing controlled substances, only, a lot of people make a sort of symbolic sense while on psychoactives, and Curt doesn't.

"What is Propertarianism?

1: A System of Thought that completes the Aristotelian, Anglo Empirical, American Legal, and European Scientific Program.
2: The Completion of the Scientific Method, and with it, the Empirical Revolution. By Completing the Empirical Revolution, We complete the Social Sciences. By Completing the Social Sciences we Produce The Logic Of Social Sciences
3: The Logic of the Social Sciences is a A Universal, Value-Neutral, Formal, Operational, Logic and Method, of Metaphysics, Psychology, Ethics, Morality, Politics, Group Evolutionary Strategy
4: The result is our ability to construct The Natural Law, in Ratio-Scientific Form, its Methodology, and its Application
5: This natural law is The Group Evolutionary Strategy of the European Peoples"

My response:

#1: "Completion" is not applicable to some of these, others are already complete, others are not terminable in finite time.

#2: As Snidely said, the utilization of the scientific method is perpetual, not subject to "completion". Completion contradicts its function. To refute the other potential meaning of this vague statement, the development of the method itself is already complete.

#3: Value neutral? It would be meaningless if that were true. Literally irrelevant in and of itself, by its own definition. There's a lot of other stupid crap in here, but self-nihilation is more than enough to bin it firmly in the garbage.

#4: The result of (no-can-do + wtfbbq) x 0 = The Natural Law? Well, that is actually what he thinks of Natural Law, so at least he's not self-contradicting here.

#5: PRESTO CHANGE-O! Behold my rectal prestidigitation!

For contrast, an except from the meme-tastic TimeCube:

"Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wrong) marshmallow time. Lie that corrupts earth you educated brilliant fools."

See, at least this guy is vague and crazy enough that you can't tell what he's on about, and what you can tell is that he doesn't like public school teachers and disdains the supposed higher education, both of which are quite reasonable.

"Fraudulent ONEness of religious academia has retarded your opposite rationale brain to a half brain slave."

Yeah, see, TimeCube guy has his points.

Blogger Alen November 05, 2019 5:00 PM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:Yeah, see, TimeCube guy has his points.

Hahah.
This TimeCube guy was hilarious.
Coincidentally, today I saw a scan image of a brain under dementia next to a healthy brain, and it’s not pretty. Let’s just say there are missing areas.

This property guy looks to be suffering from some similar malady. I would argue that those missing areas are the physical manifestations of some of those systems he aims to complete and which he failed to mention. For example, he completely missed the Newtonian scientific program, which is a big one, in my opinion. Also, he failed to propose the completion of the Copernican and the Einsteinian scientific programs, the utter completion of the Groucho Marx scientific endeavour (which involves solving the Groucho paradox and the state of the universe problem), and the complete ruination of the Eucledian geometry plan. Once those are done, we can proceed to the next stage, which is completing the theory of everything, and that will certainly require some energy to do.

Blogger James Fox Higgins November 05, 2019 5:43 PM  

SirHamster wrote:A lot?

Direct question: Point out the posts that you think are smug rhetoric without genuine dialectical engagement. You said there are a lot, you should be able to get 3 examples, easy.

If there aren't at least 3, you're using dishonest rhetorical reframing.


You're right of course. Regardless of any specific number, "a lot" is a dishonest rhetorical framing, and I felt off about writing that at the time but failed to listen to the still small voice inside that warned me of this. I then re-read the comment thread and found a lot more valuable arguments than I had taken in the first time through, particularly from Azure. Perhaps my personal affection for Curt was clouding my reading.

That said, to answer your direct question, here are some of the comments that I perceive as smug rhetoric:

"Has the stench of alt-retard. Are they running around pooing on the carpet again?"

"If I'm going to dive into that twitter thread, I'm gonna need a bigger fedora"

"Y'all seen Multiplicity? Doolittle is Nietzsche three clones later."

"It's in his name. 'Do little.'"

There are more, but I need not repeat them. As I just said, these jumped out at me a lot more than the legitimate arguments and dialectical comments, of which there are more than I perceived at first (probably due to bias) so I apologise for that remark and retract.

I would, however, like to look at some of the practical points of Propertarianism if anyone here cares to pick it apart with me.

You think the movement is relevant and that Vox needs to take a second look. Pick the most important idea that you think Propertarianism has.

Please be careful not to reframe or twist what I have written. I said I believe that the movement WILL BE relevant, because I see it growing in popularity, particularly through the contributions of John Mark, whom no one here is discussing, despite him effectively being the lead propagandist for Propertarianism, and doing a very good job of it.

I also don't think Vox NEEDS to do anything; I said I would personally appreciate his insights and analysis of Propertarianism because I trust Vox as a logician and as a non-cucked Christian brother, and I also find Vox's writing style to be refreshingly clear and erudite. Vox helped me see through the sophistry and bafflegarble of Jordan Peterson, so if I am caught up in a delusion again by seeing some sense and value in Propertarianism, then I would be pleased to have my vision cleared by Vox. My personal wish for a Supreme Dark Lord teardown of Propertarianism should not be confused with a demand for it, or an argument that Vox SHOULD or NEEDS to do it. I just want him to, for my own selfish reasons. I respect that he has no intention to do so. This discussion is proving valuable in the place of a SDL blitzkrieg.

Curt's writing is certainly nothing like Vox's and it has taken me reading the non-Curt (Curt-endorsed) writings of his compatriots to even begin to understand what Curt is on about.

Then go ahead and point those ideas out and why you think they matter.

Here are some of the points of Propertarianism that I find noteworthy and not without merit. I'll do my best to represent it earnestly, but this is only my limited understanding of it, and I'm very open to the possibility that I'm wrong, not seeing holes in the logic, or totally hoodwinked.

(continued in next comment)

Blogger James Fox Higgins November 05, 2019 5:44 PM  

- "Property in toto": The redefinition of property to include intangible commons, like language, social moral standards, culture, and the future of a race/society/culture. Curt defines this as much as property as the tangible items we possess, and uses the action of defence as the defining factor; that is, people own what they will act to defend.

- "Operationalism": Curt's best writings, and (presumably) the framework he's using to compose his constitution of Natural Law is essentially a form of E-Prime (defined by wikipedia as "a version of the English language that excludes all forms of the verb to be, including all conjugations, contractions and archaic forms"). This approach to law-writing precludes the possibility of conflation, which I think would be useful in establishing natural law. John Mark frames this as "telling a story of actions" and uses to it help people avoid the rhetorical trap of conflations and moralisms (eg. "you can't murder because it's evil/wrong/bad") to instead make promises of cause and effect (if this, then that), for example: "if you murder, you impose an irredeemable cost upon your victim, and the natural law dictates you be punished accordingly". As such, the samples of Propertarian law that I have read are delightful intolerant of things like pedophilia, going so far as to suggest (after making very clear what defines the crime) death by fire in public square for convicted child molestors. I think this is a very rational punishment and a good deterrent against future perpetrators.

- "Science as a methodology for discovering truth": I think we could all agree that scientody is intended for this purpose. While I agree completely with the rebuttals above that science is an open-ended process that cannot be "completed", my understanding is that Curt wants to use the process of verification that science provides as the basis for generating social laws, which I think is what he means by "value neutral". As a Christian, I think this misses the fundamental Truth that is required, but part of me still longs for a more rational and objective approach to lawmaking which I am not seeing come from anyone in the democracy racket.

- "Reciprocity as the fundamental principle of law". This is something that I see being practised here at Vox Popoli, and I see Vox practising it in his own fights in the culture war. This is a major distinction that many people still haven't cottoned onto, and Propertarians (particularly John Mark) are doing a good job of teaching about reciprocity as a safeguard against the sneaky rhetorical tactics of the left. Reciprocity, if fully understood by the grassroots right, has already long-since provided the moral authority for revolution, and this is a message that Curt and John Mark are hammering daily into their readers/viewers.

There are more points I could get into, but I'm conscious of taking up too much space on this blog already. Im certainly happy to continue the discussion if others are, and the moderators and Supreme Dark Lord don't mind.

Altogether, where Curt's work and community have been of greatest value to me have been in curing me of my ideological Libertarianism, understanding and practising the difference between moralistic/wishful arguments and observational/factual truth-apt statements, recognising the GSRRM (a 'Doolittleism' that is useful: Gossip, Shaming, Rallying, Ridicule, Moralisation) of the left and the fake right, in lieu of truth, and also taking heart and understanding that the coming war/collapse is not to be dreaded as I used to, but rather to be embraced as the next phase of change, and an opportunity for those to dare to act.

Blogger James Fox Higgins November 05, 2019 5:44 PM  

Bear in mind, I started out my "red-pill" journey five years ago with Stefan Molyneux, moved into ideological Randian Libertarianism, then got into the woowoo/occultism of Jordan Peterson before opening my Bible and discovering that the Lord Jesus I worshipped as a child really was the King I was looking for. From there, I started reading Curt's work, initially thought he was Satan incarnate, got to know him a bit and started a friendship with him, and found that while he may not correct or as clever as he presents himself to be, he's a good guy and he's helping a lot of men to see the world soberly. From there, with the release of Jordanetics, I started reading Vox's books and blog and watching Darkstreams, and this is where I find the most value in understanding both the empirical reality of politics and man, and the underlying spiritual war of which we are the physical front.

I'm not here to proselytise anyone to Propertariansm. I don't even call myself a Propertarian, but I find Curt's work to be an excellent antidote to the delusions of Libertarianism, and it's certainly been a valuable stop along my road of truth discovery.

I hope these comments make sense and are of value, and I look forward to being embarrassed wherever they are not, so I can continue to see more clearly moving forward.

/END RANT

Blogger The Propertarian Institute November 05, 2019 6:23 PM  

All,

I am occasionally asked where I should direct christians, and I say either to Vox or to James. I follow James. I pay no attention to Vox. I sometimes pay attention to EMJ.

But Testimonial truth is a judicial discipline and it has no mercy. My work is hard enough for the smartest of us, and requires knowledge of multiple fields - especially law, economics, cognitive science, and the philosophy of mathematics and science. But most of all, it limits us to only what we can testify to when submitted as evidence. And there is every place for natural law and every place for christian love, but no place for faith in courts. Courts resolve differences between people who have many differences. Markets provide opportunities for cooperation despite our differences. And the state must create both court and market so we can cooperate despite our differences - especially differences in gender, class, experience, resources, agency, and age.

I do not do theology, philosophy, or ideology, I do law - for engineering the possibility of cooperation between peoples regardless of their differences. A law with which I hope to restore the Church or Churches to an equal house of government, with exclusive dominion over birth, marriage, family, and death, and with which to crush our enemies whether hostile in faith, hostile in pseudoscience, hostile in sophistry, hostile linying; or hostile in denial of evidence left behind by the demonstrated behavior of man.

My job is not to build a church. That is for the faithful. That is for you. But apparently, it is necessary to produce a clearing upon which others can build one. Because christianity has utterly failed as a political religion, has failed as a social religion, and is at present devolving into a folk religion - a pure 'faith' and not a religion. A Religion requires institutions to hold territory and people. And very shortly in civilizational time, christians will have none. And judaism's undermining by the pseudosciences of marxism and feminism, and sophisms of postmodernism, and lying and denying political correctness and islam's destruction of civilizations by rates of invasion, rates of reproduction and success in evangelism, have claimed every civlization that has not eradicated them.

As always, deliver faith unto your god as is his due.
But unlike god, Caesar (the court) cannot see, test, or trust your faith.
And I do the work of Caesar.
The work of faith is up to you.

Affections.




Blogger Alen November 05, 2019 7:13 PM  

The Propertarian Institute wrote:All,

One question, though.
Will the Propertarian Institute allow me to become its member?
If so, you will have instantly solved the Groucho Marx paradox and state of the universe problem, which I subscribe to.

But really, sorry to the Propertarian Institute for making such fun of you, but you did write "christianity has utterly failed as a political religion", which it is not, Islam is, but you, the mighty Propertarian Institute are not aware of this for some reason, and besides, most of the nonsense about law you are spouting can be found in your average textbook on the Church’s social teachings, which does not involve possessing intangible things like language etc. You know, you can fight for things you do not actually possess as property, like your family and your country...

Hey, The Propertarian Institute, are you really this stupidoso? It’s not possible I think. I would tell you to go and be institutionalized, but you already are an institution, so...

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 05, 2019 7:46 PM  

Hi Curt,
A few objections.
States don't create markets
Testimonial Truth is an oxymoron.. Neither testimony nor science is capable of finding truth. Ever. At all

The Propertarian Institute wrote:And I do the work of Caesar.
Fuck you. No you don't. You want to be a strongman, I get that. But you're not up to the task, neither emotionally nor intellectually. You're not Caesar. You're not Claudius. You're not even Otho. You're at best a Greek slave who tutors Roman teens in political philosophy.
The Propertarian Institute wrote:I do not do theology, philosophy, or ideology, I do law - for engineering the possibility of cooperation between peoples regardless of their differences.
Whether you care to admit it or not, what you are attempting to do is political Philosophy. It's obvious that, like the New Atheists, you don't think you need to actually learn anything of philosophy. That somehow 3000 years of clear and well-developed thinking by the smartest men of human history is apriori wrong, and you're smarter than all of them, by virtue of having been born on a Tuesday instead of a Monday. You are just as wrong and irrational as they are.
Like the irrelevant Libertarians, you are attempting to reduce all of law to a single premise and rebuild from that to an overarching society. Not only is it impossible, it is the mere opposite of what law is. The law is of necessity an expression of the culture, values, religion, habits and genetics of a people. The idea that you can reduce this all to some over-arching principle like "reciprocity" is frankly ludicrous. Such a lwa would not only be perceived by every person subject to it as an imposition of an alien and incoherent philosophy, the mere reframing of the law with linguistic tricks does nothing whatever to ensure that the law is actually applied as intended.
The entire attempt is what Owen Benjamin would call "Wizardry", the attempt to alter the nature of reality by using the right words.
And the idea that disparate cultures can live under the same law is also a non-starter. Jew and Moslems have completely antithetical ideas about the nature and propriety of interest and usury. How do you enforce contracts involving interest in a way that Moslems would understand as fair. How do you do that in a way that Jews will see as fair? One or the other will be imposed upon, and no amount of word wrangling and Random Capitalization will make that inherent contradiction go away.

A Christian's task is not to impose a political Christianity. It's not even to win. A Christian's task is to remain faithful to Christ and let God handle the big picture. The idea of religion as a utilitarian good that can be used to prop up your Utopian NewSpeak paradise is fundamentally false.

Finally, I would advise you to stop trying to reformulate society until you've actually read what much smarter men than you have already written about it. As I said before, what you are failing so badly to do is political philosophy. Learn some the discipline. You could start with Summa Theologica, but then I always recommend that to anybody who's deficient in Philosophy. If that's too theological for you, you could try Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics, or Aurelius' Meditations, or even the Analects of Confucius, for God's sake.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 05, 2019 9:51 PM  

"that is, people own what they will act to defend."

What if two people will act to defend the same thing? I presume whoever wins owns it. So, "Might makes right" disingenuously couched in implied terms akin to the non-aggression-principle, "defend".

" "Science as a methodology for discovering truth": I think we could all agree that scientody is intended for this purpose."

No. It is intended to produce approximations of observable cause and effect, and attempt to improve on those, so that desired effects may be produced by man. Truth is an entirely different beast. Discarding a necessarily finite number of falsities cannot produce truth.

It's the other way around. You have to believe several things true in order to think that the practice has meaning and may function toward it.

"my understanding is that Curt wants to use the process of verification that science provides"

No such process exists.

"as the basis for generating social laws, which I think is what he means by "value neutral"."

He says what he means by it. He believes that man is neither moral nor immoral, but rather amoral. He derives this from his vain belief that man has no meter but man.

Plainly, he is saying that good and evil do not exist, and that man is god.

"but part of me still longs for a more rational and objective approach to lawmaking which I am not seeing come from anyone in the democracy racket."

Nothing about Curt's proposition is objective. It is fundamentally subjective because it is based on the subjects who comprise man.

That being said, if you want reason back, you have to incentivise truth, half of the means of which is punishing lies.

"This approach to law-writing precludes the possibility of conflation... ...to instead make promises of cause and effect"

Not exactly. It tries to get rid of conflation, but it throws away all meaning. What care has anyone what effect is produced if nothing has any good or evil, desirable or undesirable quality to it? Cause and effect can say nothing of themselves about "should". Logically they can only state "does". Curt doesn't find pedophilia wrong because it logically follows his system. He only finds it wrong because he doesn't like it, then he tries to rationalize that sentiment in the guise of his system.

"Reciprocity as the fundamental principle of law".

A restatement of "do unto others". This is not new or interesting, and it is not a complete law, it cannot even correctly govern all action of one human to another. It turns out that different humans value different things, and even that they ought to value different things so far as their functions differ.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 05, 2019 9:52 PM  

"he's a good guy and he's helping a lot of men to see the world soberly."

He is performing for the most part within the standards he was brought up to. Good, and helping men see soberly?

Here is an analogy. When working with a pneumatic system, there is always a supply of comparatively high pressure that is vented into lower pressure areas in order to do work. If that pressure is allowed to vent prematurely, or in wrong directions, the work is not done. It often will also damage the system when this happens, but even to waste that pressure is a loss, or a sort of damage.

Now, the word pneuma, from which pneumatic derives, originally referred to air, or spirit. The moving force through you, and through others, that is perhaps most easily conceptualized as moving like wind. If that force is dissipated in false directions, it does not do the work it ought to do. This might be due to mistake, decay, or sabotage.

In Curt's case, where he succeeds in venting people, it is sabotage. His own system of thought does not allow for the concept of good. The good you see in him is not due to his Propertarian system, but rather in spite of it, vestigial of his upbringing and impressed by the societal pressures around him. It does not and cannot derive from his stated system of thought.

In Biblical terms, according to James, "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows." That is not the way Curt is pointing.

"But most of all, it limits us to only what we can testify to when submitted as evidence."

Only what we can grasp, and hold in our hands, and take, and present for show and tell. That is a filter, and you chose it intentionally, because it permits only what you can quantify, comprehend, and thereby to an extent control.

"My job is not to build a church. That is for the faithful. That is for you. But apparently, it is necessary to produce a clearing upon which others can build one. Because christianity has utterly failed as a political religion"

Stop right there, mendacious scum. Trying to separation of Church and state us already. You will of course require the levers of state, because the transient expression of power from there is the only thing you actually value, so much so that you already lay claim to it as though by right, though you do not admit the objective existence of righteousness.

All you are is a would-be who-whom, bereft as much experience of and addiction to scorching yourself and your surroundings with that agency.

Blogger James Fox Higgins November 05, 2019 10:43 PM  

No. It is intended to produce approximations of observable cause and effect, and attempt to improve on those, so that desired effects may be produced by man. Truth is an entirely different beast. Discarding a necessarily finite number of falsities cannot produce truth.

Good. Thank you for this distinction. This convinces me, and it rings... not false! ;)

What we discover through science can only ever be "true enough", until something comes along that replaces it with a greater, more pure, truth. The only absolute Truth is found in the person of Jesus Christ.

He believes that man is neither moral nor immoral, but rather amoral. He derives this from his vain belief that man has no meter but man. Plainly, he is saying that good and evil do not exist, and that man is god.

Yes, he does believes this, and says as much often, and would probably not refute that this is his axiomatic position. Of course, as you point out, Curt himself acts within the framework of morality even as he denies its existence and the Logos upon which it rests. I pray that he'll open his heart to Jesus before the end; because I believe that the best of Curt's desires for mankind are shared by our Lord (a thousand nations blooming; a natural hierarchy; family; brotherhood), but the worst of Curt's desires (for man to fashion himself into god by perfecting the material world and human structures) are positively satanic.

And yes, my affection for Curt (and his for me) is not a result of his system of thought, but in spite of it.

That being said, if you want reason back, you have to incentivise truth, half of the means of which is punishing lies.

The punishment of lies is so central to Propertarianism that, in a world which currently rewards and absolves the greatest liars and punishes the truth-speakers/seekers, it makes what Curt is doing very appealing to disenfranchised and fed up men like me. Perhaps it's a similar but inverse phenomenon to the Peterson moment (which has surely passed in a puff of crystal meth smoke). Where Peterson promoted weakness, suffering, and vulnerability, Curt promotes strength (by violence), prosperity by conquest, and invulnerability by building commons with men of like mind.

Once again, the more I look to men to kneel and pledge my sword to, the more I find that King Jesus is the only worthy Lord, and all I want to do is raise my sons in peace and grow vegetables, and pray ceaselessly.

I continue to love the man, Curt Doolittle, and I remain curious about his project, if not convinced by it, but I have intuited these fatal flaws in his philosophy from the start, and I hope I can continue to inject some Logos into the work he is doing in my own small way. That said, I won't continue to flog a dead horse on this here blog. Thanks for your push-back, Azure. It's been helpful.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 05, 2019 11:11 PM  

James Fox Higgins wrote:What we discover through science can only ever be "true enough", until something comes along that replaces it with a greater, more pure, truth.More exactly, science can at best determine only facts. Facts are not Truth, because Truth necessarily includes purpose, and intent. The fact of a dog is things like breed, weight, age. The truth of a dog is love, companionship, and nobility. All of which, as things that cannot be measured, are not subject to science.

Blogger James Fox Higgins November 05, 2019 11:30 PM  

And we can all agree that dogs are indeed noble, beloved companions. Anyone who disagrees is imposing an irredeemable cost upon the world, and should be put to death (by Dobermann, of course).

Blogger xevious2030 November 05, 2019 11:34 PM  

“it limits us to only what we can testify to when submitted as evidence”

You’re a liar. The whole construct you have provided is subjective. And a thinly veiled pseudo-rationalist atheist.

Blogger MEGAMUS Maximus November 06, 2019 5:08 AM  

I can't tell if this is Mikemikev or Mike Enoch or Mike the illegitimate half-indian grandson of Curt Doolittle, it sounds like a gamma retard and needs to be put down.

Blogger MEGAMUS Maximus November 06, 2019 5:13 AM  

"Curt's not a gamma"

His messiah complex, his secret king musings, and his need to attack anyone in such an absolute manner who only criticizes one or two things that Curt agrees with begs to differ.

Anyone who excuses his anti-christian claims as some means of proving that Christians want a monopoly on whatever gobbledygook he claims is essentially making a post facto rationalization/conclusion for Curt's dumb behavior, which I'm certain is a logical fallacy and I know for an absolute fact is a fallacy against life made by people pushing a cargo cult

Blogger luisonmcbiel November 06, 2019 5:48 AM  

My thoughts on the matter:
From an orthodox christian perspective, which I believe is the true form of Christianity, the two worldviews, that is Christianity and Propertarianism, cannot be reconciled. Now, I understand there exists a camp that believes that Christianity is the best ingroup strategy and along with the western people that is what has made it succesful. In this camp I would put Curt, Edward Dutton and JF Gariepy. People that believe in empirical materialism and evolution. So lets point some paradigmatic differences and assumptions that make the views antithetical to each other:
Christianity(orthodox): There is one God, He is personal, He created the world, He created us in His image, and we are moral creatures. We are not the result of evolution. Morality and truth are objetive.
Propertarianism:God is information,so He does not exist. Neither the world nor us were created by Him, we come from bacteria. Morality is subjective, might makes right. Truth really does not exist(He rejects this, but I will argue that in a materialistic worldview it is not consistent to claim that truth exists)

That should suffice to point that there is no way of reconciliation the two worldviews, and that true Christians will never back it because it is inherently satanic.
Regarding Curt:
He is a secret king, with a retarded view pf hostory. He thinks Christianity failed due to its inherent weakness. He believes science is the ultime method for discerning truth(comments above have already destroyed that conception). This is retarded, the scientism that comes from the enlightment is retarded, the enlightment is what wrecked the christian nations, although I believe the seed was planted with the great schism (Papacy,Protestant reformation,Skepticism, enlightment, big science). He may think that thruth is posible in such a worldview, but only relative facts are. This is basic stuff, the scientific method cannot justify the scientific method(shut out to Jay Dyer). He may have a high IQ, but again we believe Mans problem is not his lack of intelligence, but Mans problem is moral. IMO his lack of empathy and his autism shows in his retarded assumptions and his childish way of comunication.

Blogger luisonmcbiel November 06, 2019 6:01 AM  

My thoughts on the matter:
From an orthodox christian perspective, which I believe is the true form of Christianity, the two worldviews, that is Christianity and Propertarianism, cannot be reconciled. Now, I understand there exists a camp that believes that Christianity is the best ingroup strategy and along with the western people that is what has made it succesful. In this camp I would put Curt, Edward Dutton and JF Gariepy. People that believe in empirical materialism and evolution. So lets point some paradigmatic differences and assumptions that make the views antithetical to each other:

Blogger MEGAMUS Maximus November 06, 2019 7:47 AM  

If reading the entire exchange here hasn't proven that Doolittle is a charlatan on the same level as Jordan Peterson, I don't know what will.

Blogger wreckage November 06, 2019 8:11 AM  

The guy thinks legal technicalities are upstream of culture. It doesn't matter what his IQ is; he is clearly incapable of ordered thought. I would be more interested in how he scores on schizophrenic traits than autistic.

Blogger The Propertarian Institute November 06, 2019 8:15 AM  

@snidely whiplash

---"States don't create markets"---
How would you test that? trade has always existed. But were (are) there any markets without states (in history)? Why? The requirement for the continuous incremental suppression of parasitism in all its forms.

---"Testimonial Truth is an oxymoron.. Neither testimony nor science is capable of finding truth."---

Ah, but testimony, consistency in identity, internal consistency, operational possibility, external correspondence, statement of limits, and full accounting within them, will absolutely positively discover whether you are in fact testifying or lying. We approach truth like we approach any limit but never reach it, and if we do it is mere tautology. This subject has troubled the greatest minds in history. It's over your head. So don't lie that you have any comprehension of the term.

TAUTOLOGICAL TRUTH: That testimony you give when you promising the equality of two statements using different terms: A circular definition, a statement of equality or a statement of identity.

ANALYTIC TRUTH: The testimony you give promising the internal consistency of one or more statements used in the construction of a proof in an axiomatic(declarative) system. (a Logical Truth).

IDEAL TRUTH: That testimony (description) you would give, if your knowledge (information) was complete, your language was sufficient, stated without error, cleansed of bias, and absent deceit, within the scope of precision limited to the context of the question you wish to answer; and the promise that another possessed of the same knowledge (information), performing the same due diligence, having the same experiences, would provide the same testimony. (Ideal Truth = Perfect Parsimony.)

TRUTHFULNESS: that testimony (description) you give if your knowledge (information) is incomplete, your language is insufficient, you have performed due diligence in the elimination of error, imaginary content, wishful thinking, bias, and deceit; within the scope of precision limited to the question you wish to answer; and which you warranty to be so; and the promise that another possessed of the knowledge, performing the same due diligence, having the same experiences, would provide the same testimony.

HONESTY: that testimony (description) you give with full knowledge that knowledge is incomplete, your language is insufficient, but you have not performed due diligence in the elimination of error and bias, but which you warranty is free of deceit; within the scope of precision limited to the question you wish to answer; and the promise that another possess of the same knowledge (information), performing the same due diligence, having the same experiences, would provide the same testimony.

INTUITION: (sentimental expression) – an uncritical, uncriticized, response to information that expresses a measure of existing biases (priors).
The rest of your comment is "emotional sperging" and puts forth nothing but disapproval in the absence of argument.

I don't make errors.
It's easy.
Just don't assert what you cannot testify to.

Blogger The Propertarian Institute November 06, 2019 8:23 AM  

---"And yes, my affection for Curt (and his for me) is not a result of his system of thought, but in spite of it."--- James

A selfless, entirely moral man, is easy to love - And I do not care which story a man uses as his system of measurement if the UNIT of measurement within that story it is the same as mine. I have found very few moral men in this world, and James is one of them.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 06, 2019 9:37 AM  

The Propertarian Institute wrote:Ah, but testimony, consistency in identity, internal consistency, operational possibility, external correspondence, statement of limits, and full accounting within them, will absolutely positively discover whether you are in fact testifying or lying.
This is absolutely 100% self-delusion.
I can only assume you've read about humans but have never dealt with an actual sample of Homo Sapiens.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 06, 2019 9:40 AM  

The Propertarian Institute wrote:I don't make errors.
This is even more delusional. Your statement above is so full of errors it's actually ironic.
You're not worth anyone's time at this point. Vox is right. You are completely and irredeemably irrelevant.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 06, 2019 10:01 AM  

"Ah, but testimony, consistency in identity, internal consistency, operational possibility, external correspondence, statement of limits, and full accounting within them, will absolutely positively discover whether you are in fact testifying or lying."

No. Your imagination is sore lacking.

"TAUTOLOGICAL TRUTH:... ...ANALYTIC TRUTH:... ...IDEAL TRUTH:"

None of which are truth, and all of which are your best approximations of what truth is after you've decided that truth does not exist.

"I don't make errors.
It's easy.
Just don't assert what you cannot testify to."


And yet you speak. Your attempt at logic violates itself. Vain and pretentious quack.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 06, 2019 10:04 AM  

"And I do not care which story a man uses as his system of measurement if the UNIT of measurement within that story it is the same as mine."

AKA man alone.

" I have found very few moral men in this world, and James is one of them."

You don't believe that the term "moral" applies to human being in any meaningful way. So which is it, are morals true and you a liar in eschewing them, or are you truthful and there are no morals in which case truth has no value?

Blogger xevious2030 November 06, 2019 10:16 AM  

"I do not care which story a man uses as his system of measurement if the UNIT of measurement within that story it is the same as mine."

Bullshit. Not the same as, is in accordance with. Subjective, your unit, your reasons. Testimony can be given all day as to the qualities of a red ball, but what qualities make it better are subjective. A smooth ball on a smooth table does not roll better than a rough ball on a rough table. It may roll further, but further is not better. More useful for certain purposes, but not better. That a certain purpose is chosen as useful is a matter of desire, of that part of the human brain (figuratively half) your posit pretends to be detached from. Your system has no anchor, you are not eternal, you are not the measure of all things, you are not timeless. You are puissant among over seven billion puissant, in a constant of change and shift, for a humanity that does not stand still. Subjective.

Blogger The Cooler November 06, 2019 3:21 PM  

Lord, may Curt never gain access to large quantities of Cyanide and Valium. Amen.

Blogger The Propertarian Institute November 06, 2019 5:59 PM  

---"Morality is subjective"---

I assume this is a statement made in ignorance rather than lying. I never say anything like that. Just the opposite. Morality, meaning reciprocity(preservation of cooperation) within the limits of proportionality(defection) is simply both logically and empirically true. Man always and everywhere acts amorally: the minimum morality when in his intersets, and the maximum immorally when it is in his interests. That's just the evidence.

---"Testimony can be given all day as to the qualities of a red ball, but what qualities make it better are subjective. "---

I can testify to the qualities of a red ball, because they are testifiable.
I can testify to my preference, but I cannot testify to a good because I can only presume it.
I can testify to a measurement of many testimonies of the good, and with due diligence claim that at least for the people testifying the value is 'preferable' for all, and therefore 'good'.

A smooth ball on a smooth table does not roll better than a rough ball on a rough table. It may roll further, but further is not better.

---"More useful for certain purposes, but not better."---

Well you've made a contrivance (fraud) that is the most common sophism in philosophy:

"a ball can be useful for certain purposes, but not bretter [for unstated purposes]."

Better, like speed, tells us nothing whatever, without a reference against which to compare it. A thing can be objectively better for a purpose; it can be better for every implied purpose; it can be better for all imaginable purposes, but it cannot be 'better' without a purpose.

In other words you stated a deception by (a) incomplete sentence (c) an ideal, (c) leaving open suggestion. This in fact the source of most sophism: incomplete sentences. In this case using an idealism "better' 'good' leaving open the reader to say 'better than what?' then proposing a truth test of a measurement that you didn't state, and claiming that the question is undecidable rather than simply a sophism.

Abrahamic Deceit (pilpul - sophisms) and Avoidance (critique - almost every comment so far) are endemic in christianity as they are in judaism and islam - as they are in marxism and postmodernism. The rabbis pulled greek idealism into scriptural interpretation creating the most complete system of deceit ever invented by man - and added a false promise of (addictive) mindfulness that is second only to addictive substances.

So, let's keep track so far:
1 error in ignorance or deceit. I don't know which.
2 junior college level sophism, which I'm going to presume is just limited intelligence combined with lifetime exposure to abrahamic deceits.

---"Your system has no anchor, you are not eternal, you are not the measure of all things, you are not timeless."---

The physical laws of nature, the natural law of reciprocity, and the necessity of due diligence for the consistent, operational, correspondent, bounded rational, complete, fully accounted, coherent(completely consistent), warranty of such, and liability for such is and always and everywhere by 'true' by the same criteria.

...

Blogger The Propertarian Institute November 06, 2019 6:01 PM  

...(continued)

---"You are puissant among over seven billion puissant, in a constant of change and shift, for a humanity that does not stand still. Subjective."---

I am quite likely the most accomplished and intelligent person you have ever had waste his time on you - albeit solely for the instruction of others. And within a decade we will know if I have completed aristotle's project - the project abrahamic lying was invented to undermine, thereby providing the dysgenic underclasses a means of resistance against eugenic aristocracy that dominated the ancient world and until democratic elections, the modern.

There are no known surviving criticisms of Propertarianism (Testimonialism et al). There are only disapprovals. Because as we have seen with Aristotle/Epicurus, Locke/Smith/Hume, Darwin/Spencer/Nietzsche, Maxwell,Menger,Poincare - the underclasses rebel against truth - because their survival by parasitism is dependent upon lying.

I doubt you possess the knowledge and capacity, as I don't see much evidence here.
And I cannot imagine my intellectual peers would ... visit the 'other half'. I only did so because I have a policy of 'don't swing at me, and I won't swing at you'.

You may criticize the constitutional solutions I propose. They are open to criticism. As they are merely utilitarian propositions that would eradicate irreciprocity including lying from the informational commons (public discourse) by extending involuntary warranty and liability for all speech, in public, to the public in subjects public. The rest is institutional reformation that will reverse the undermining of our civilization by marxism-feminism-postmodernism-denialism just as christians undermined the ancient world, by destroying all evidence of aristocracy, truth, reason, and their arts and letters. The pulling down of statues, the removal of the bible, and christian symbolism from the public space, and the shaming of truthful content out of school and academy, and its replacement with a new 'secular' religion of false promises made with lies - is repetition of christian destruction of the ancient world - an ironic event that christianity should be destroyed by the same means it used to destroy the ancient world.

So, let's keep track so far:
1 - error in ignorance or deceit (morality). I don't know which.
2 - junior college level sophism, which I'm going to presume is just limited intelligence combined with lifetime exposure to abrahamic deceits.
3 - error in either ignorance or deceit (permanency/necessity)
4 - Critique (feminine shaming) as means of circumventing the argument.

Well you did manage to pack a lot of abrahamic deceit into one paragraph. ;)

-Cheers

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 06, 2019 6:18 PM  

The Propertarian Institute wrote:I can testify to a measurement of many testimonies of the good, and with due diligence claim that at least for the people testifying the value is 'preferable' for all, and therefore 'good'.
Why is truth preferable? Many people prefer lies. Entire cultures often prefer specific lies.

The Propertarian Institute wrote:I am quite likely the most accomplished and intelligent person you have ever had waste his time on you - albeit solely for the instruction of others.
Bullshit There are at least 4 people who regularly comment here that are at least +1SD more intelligent than you are, including the person you are responding to.
The Propertarian Institute wrote:There are no known surviving criticisms of Propertarianism (Testimonialism et al). There are only disapprovals.
Because you blurt out a stupid bit of boilerplate and proceed to ignore the argument, you stupid, lying, self-deluding piece of shit.
The Propertarian Institute wrote:I doubt you possess the knowledge and capacity, as I don't see much evidence here.
Odd, everyone here can see that you've never once in your life, made it all the way from premise to conclusion. Whether you can see the evidence is entirely beside the point. You'd just deny it anyway, the same way you wave your hands and wish away every attempt to get through your delusional word fog.
The Propertarian Institute wrote:Because as we have seen with Aristotle/Epicurus, Locke/Smith/Hume, Darwin/Spencer/Nietzsche, Maxwell,Menger,Poincare - the underclasses rebel against truth - because their survival by parasitism is dependent upon lying.
I would wage you;ve never read a single one of them. Certainly if you did read them, you failed entirely to understand what they were saying.
The Propertarian Institute wrote:The physical laws of nature, the natural law of reciprocity, and the necessity of due diligence for the consistent, operational, correspondent, bounded rational, complete, fully accounted, coherent(completely consistent), warranty of such, and liability for such is and always and everywhere by 'true' by the same criteria.
By this statement alone, you explicitly disavow what any rational reality-grounded person would consider truth. You no more believe in truth than you do in good, or beauty, or God.
The Propertarian Institute wrote:Morality, meaning reciprocity(preservation of cooperation) within the limits of proportionality(defection) is simply both logically and empirically true.
You don't get to redefine terms, you slobbering fool. Whatever you may think of your concept, which by the way is not of necessity either logically nor empirically true, it is not morality.

Blogger The Propertarian Institute November 06, 2019 7:34 PM  

Let's Keep Score Again.


---"Why is truth preferable? Many people prefer lies. Entire cultures often prefer specific lies."---

(a) you do not falsify my statement, but try to change the subject.
(b) people prefer TO lie they prefer someone else pays the cost of truth, so that they can benefit from the efforts of truth tellers,.
(d) so of course people prefer lies. That doesn't change that the incremental suppression of falsehood has delivered us out of ignorance, superstition, poverty, starvation, hard labor, disease, child mortality, early death, the variations in climate, and a nature all but hostile to life. Nor does it change the fact that jews contributed nothing to humanity until indoctrinated into Aristotelianism, christians persisted a thousand year dark age, and islam destroyed every great civilization of the ancient world, including its genetics, leaving only abrahamic ashes.
(d) so by demonstrated preference people prefer the consequences of truth, they do not prefer to be subject to its costs themselves. In other words lying for either profit or discount is advantageous for the individual. Conversely the eradication of comforting lies evidently floats all boats.

1 - avoiding the argument. (truth)
2 - failing to state the consequences (demonstrated preference)

---"Bullshit There are at least 4 people who regularly comment here that are at least +1SD more intelligent than you are, including the person you are responding to."---

While that is statistically unlikely, (a) intelligence stated has little bearing on (b) intelligence demonstrated and (c) intelligence demonstrated by achievement is the only test of applied intelligence. So, we will see. So far I am pretty sure (as usual) the answer will be rather obvious : No Shows.

3 - burden of proof (+1SD)
4 - false equivalency (demonstrated intelligence)


---Because you blurt out a stupid bit of boilerplate and proceed to ignore the argument,---

I haven't seen a single argument yet. I can't avoid one that doesn't exist.

Just because calculus is hard does not mean it is false. Just because we restated the laws of thermodynamics frequently does not mean they are false. Just because complete sentences in operational vocabulary free of the verb to-be is hard, does not mean it is false. Just because we define our terms in operational vocabulary free of the copula, and organize them in series so that conflation inflation and fallacious deduction, inference, and abduction is impossible doesn't mean it's false. ;)

5 - straw man (argument)
6 - argument from ignorance (boilerplate), ignorance of process of disambiguation.
7? - pretty sure of confusing of axiomatic arbitrary declarative and theoretic existential descriptive.

---"you stupid, lying, self-deluding piece of shit."---

7 - ad hom, absence of evidence

---"Odd, everyone here can see that you've never once in your life, made it all the way from premise to conclusion. '---

I've stated two at least so far without even looking., (a) requirements for testimony, and (b) definition of morality. Both statements are falsifiable, but remain unfalsified.I am pretty sure that while they are falsifiable, that no one will ever succeed at falsifying them.

8 - argument to popularity (everyone here)
9 - ignoring the evidence (stated examples)
10 - incompetence justificationism(axiomatic) in falsificationary context (reality) (premise to conclusion)

---"Whether you can see the evidence is entirely beside the point. You'd just deny it anyway, the same way you wave your hands and wish away every attempt to get through your delusional word fog."---

In order for me to 'see evidence' I would have to see an argument other than an ad hom. So far we're racking up a few sophisms and grade school fallacies, but I haven't seen an argument yet (and frankly I'm positive you aren't smart enough to make one.)

11 - Lying, claiming argument where there is nothing but accusation.

...

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