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Tuesday, December 03, 2019

One thousand years of SSH

RealTalk notes that it's impossible to watch entertainment without seeing some form of the SSH in action:
Random SSH esthetics. S2E11 Big Bang Theory.
  1. Gamma Leonard hateful/jealous of rival Alpha Underhill physicist. Throws lots of shade.
  2. Underhill asks Leonard to work with him. Leonard acts like a school girl who just got asked out. Infatuated by Alpha for the next 5 minutes of the episode.
  3. Alpha Underhill meets Penny, hits it off. Gamma Leonard becomes a hater again.
  4. Alpha proves to be a jerk, and Penny runs back to friend-zoned Gamma for comfort.
Was watching the episode while reading this. I can't stop myself from seeing through this lens anymore. It's everywhere!
But the scope of the Socio-Sexual Hierarchy is actually much broader, and much older, than Hollywood. Consider this excerpt from Genji monogatari, written in Japan more than one thousand years ago, in which the refined, sensitive Kaoru is expressing his jealousy of the success the bold philanderer Niou repeatedly enjoys with women.

Women apparently have a weakness for his kind of passionate, impetuous behavior. It makes me sad to think that my relationship with him and his sister, the First Princess, has brought me only pain and misfortune. How sweet it would be to seduce one of these extraordinary women, someone Niou, in his usual fashion, has fallen madly in love with, and have him suffer the same torments of longing that I’ve experienced! Shouldn’t a lady who is truly prudent and sensitive be attracted more to me than to Niou? Yet how hard it is to find women of such refined sensibility!

Is it not almost precisely the same Alpha-Gamma dynamic being described?

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71 Comments:

Blogger Balkan Yankee December 03, 2019 1:29 PM  

"Shouldn’t a lady who is truly prudent and sensitive be attracted more to me than to Niou?"

First comes the soft tyranny of an unquestioned assumption.

Then comes Logorrhea.

Lots of Logorrhea.

Blogger Rowan December 03, 2019 1:38 PM  

The plot of every teen comedy I’ve ever seen. The lovable loser always gets the girl. Well, except for Ducky. Or the shy plain Jane gets the Alpha. Either way, it’s womanish ways that save the day.

Frequently, the Alpha gets tamed into submission as well, or at least humiliated in a most public fashion. It’s as though the medium of cinema was made for the Secret King Fantasy.

Blogger PragmaticTroll December 03, 2019 1:40 PM  

Was just dining with the wife when two women and a man sit down behind her. Within 20 seconds of the man speaking she gave me the look. The "I am going to stab him" look. I just smiled watching the anger in my wife's eyes and the look of extreme regret in the face of the woman sitting next to the man.

At a table with two women, he made up at least 80% of the conversation.

Blogger Fuzzums Wuzzums December 03, 2019 1:40 PM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXwCLQH0Z8U
The Japanese. Get. It.

TL;DW version: Admiral vs. Gamma underling. Admiral calls Gamma underling's bluff. Gamma underling has a stroke and goes into a coma.

Blogger Jeroth December 03, 2019 1:44 PM  

Was Jacob a gamma to Esau's alpha?

Blogger Karen took the Kids December 03, 2019 1:45 PM  

"Women apparently have a weakness for his kind of passionate, impetuous behavior."

A thousand plus years later and this inner monologue is still plaguing the Gammas.

I'd almost pity them if they weren't so annoying.

Blogger Stickwick Stapers December 03, 2019 1:51 PM  

Shouldn’t a lady who is truly prudent and sensitive be attracted more to me than to Niou?

NO.

Asking that question is an automatic NO.

How sweet it would be to seduce one of these extraordinary women, someone Niou, in his usual fashion, has fallen madly in love with, and have him suffer the same torments of longing that I’ve experienced!

He's not even focused on how sweet it would be to experience one of these "extraordinary women" - his grody little fantasy has to focus on the suffering of his rival. Blehhhhh.

Blogger American Nationalist December 03, 2019 1:52 PM  

I've always hated how media panders to the "Nice Guys" and Gamma males when it comes to romance.

This is still a trend in Japan- watch any romance or ecchi anime, and the guy will invariably win the girl over by being the kind and gallant hero, even though they're socially inept, perverted, and clingy.

Blogger pdwalker December 03, 2019 2:14 PM  

hands up if you were wondering why VD was talking about “secure shell” after reading the headline.

yeah, you’re a nerd too.

Blogger lowercaseb December 03, 2019 2:16 PM  

There was a time when films and plays focused on the Alpha because the male filmgoers could imagine themselves in the role.

Now they focus on the Gamma triumphant, because most filmgoers imagine themselves in that role.

However, things are changing back again... slowly.

Blogger Brett baker December 03, 2019 2:18 PM  

What kind of people write romance anime?

Blogger steb December 03, 2019 2:20 PM  

There's an old line that says: men desire women, and women desire the desire. Apparently it's not just women but also gammas who desire to be desired.

Blogger Miguel December 03, 2019 2:20 PM  

Once someone describes it, it's hard no see it, specially in our own behaviour.

Blogger Nate73 December 03, 2019 2:21 PM  

@8: Yes it's particularly bad in new anime, just compare any generic harem show with 80s animes like Akira or Fist of the North Star. Clearly alpha masculine protagonists. Sometimes it can be hard to tell the deltas from the gammas in the new stories, because you also get some of the "I have a job and work hard, why aren't women attracted to that" from both types in the story. Typically the gammas are whiny and make you want to slam your face into the screen like Shinji for example.

Blogger cheddarman December 03, 2019 2:27 PM  

Woman at the well shit tests Jesus on gispel of John chapter 4. Our Lord and Saviour deftly gives her a verbal bitch slapping. She becomes a devoted follower.

Blogger Rek. December 03, 2019 2:33 PM  

Have been wondering the same thing for a couple of months now. Momma's boy Jacob outwits brutish Esau.

And if I understood and remember everything correctly, Jacobs sagacity and gamma behavior(?) is praised as being righteous and bold.

Blogger The Observer December 03, 2019 2:35 PM  

I've always hated how media panders to the "Nice Guys" and Gamma males when it comes to romance.

Alphas don't consume that kind of media, and Deltas tend to watch it with their wives.

Those kinds of shows have male audiences comprised of almost all gammas or omegas.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction December 03, 2019 2:43 PM  

@8

Yep, somehow the main character displaying basic human decency is somehow something amazing for the girl(s) in question and it's even prevalent in the more action oriented series now.

Blogger Zaklog the Great December 03, 2019 2:49 PM  

*Sigh* Okay, I can distinctly recall being on the wrong end of that dynamic regarding one of my high school crushes. I hope I've grown since then, but I think I used to have a lot of the gamma behavior patterns. On the other hand, I can readily admit that I am not an alpha or a sigma. (I would probably be a situational alpha in certain small groups.) I think this means I'm probably not a complete gamma. Wouldn't they almost definitionally try to cast themselves at the top in some fashion, if only in their own head?

Blogger Elijah December 03, 2019 2:50 PM  

damn you guys for red pilling me! i re watched " 3 oclock high" the other day. i used to think it was a fun movie about a nice guy going up against a bully but now realize it is a hollywood perversion of the SSH. i found myself cheering for the bad guy ( john tyson) to beat the hell out of the so called hero.

Blogger R Webfoot December 03, 2019 2:58 PM  

@10 "There was a time when films and plays focused on the Alpha because the male filmgoers could imagine themselves in the role."

"The Eiger Sanction", 1975, a Clint Eastwood mountain-climbing assassination drama.

Reporter: "Mr. Bowman, in your opinion, do they climb to prove their manhood or is it a matter of compensating for inferiority feelings?"
Clint Eastwood: "Lady, why don't you go get yourself screwed? It'll do you a lot of good."

Blogger John E. Boyle December 03, 2019 2:58 PM  

#9 PDWalker

Hand up. Yeah, once you learn subnetting and TCP/IP, you are marked forever.

Blogger Stickwick Stapers December 03, 2019 3:05 PM  

hands up if you were wondering why VD was talking about “secure shell” after reading the headline.

Ha, yep. Every time.

Blogger Weak December 03, 2019 3:14 PM  

@American Nationalist, what kind of people consume romance anime? Chads or gammas?

Blogger JAG December 03, 2019 3:16 PM  

Rowan wrote:The plot of every teen comedy I’ve ever seen. The lovable loser always gets the girl. Well, except for Ducky.

Ducky wound up with a much hotter chick, so the Secret King ultimately won again.

Kristy Swanson >>>>> Molly Ringwald in the looks department, and she's red pilled too.

Blogger pnq87 December 03, 2019 3:17 PM  

Someone brought up the story of Jacob and Esau. Ever since I was young and first heard that story, I always felt bad for Esau. His younger do-nothing brother lied to his father and stole the blessing from his brother. Yet the story is written such that we are supposed to side with Jacob. I don't understand why God would honor the trickery performed by Jacob and allow the father's blessing to go to the lying thief.

Vox, can you help us understand the meaning of this story?

Blogger Steve Samson December 03, 2019 3:21 PM  

I had fun applying it to the biker gang in Mad Max a couple of weeks ago.

Blogger Nikolai Collushnikov December 03, 2019 3:22 PM  

Esau vs. Jacob is more a story teaching that God can work around the Gamma/Alpha dynamic. God works in mysterious ways.

Blogger Rex Leroy King December 03, 2019 3:26 PM  

Esau married lush Canaanite duskies, against the will of YHWH and his parents. Thus he lost the favor of heaven. Jacob was the only remaining choice at that point.

Blogger Chiva December 03, 2019 3:30 PM  

*Hands up*
Guilty.

Blogger Fuzzums Wuzzums December 03, 2019 3:32 PM  

@8 @14

Nate73 wrote:ypically the gammas are whiny and make you want to slam your face into the screen like Shinji for example.

If you think Shinji's a Gamma you need to revise the Gamma traits.

Most Japanese protagonists are Delta's because that's what the government wants. "All of one and one for all" is their whole state philosophy, in that order.

They also have a serious problem with their otakus (their NEET equivalent) which are the main consumers of anime. The propaganda geared at these people, who are at serious risk of becoming gammas, deals with the protagonist getting out of his bubble and contributing to society which leads to a better life. Women are targeted too by having a heroine fall in love with some of these otaku's (for some reason) and literally shame/beat them into becoming a good Delta husband.

The whole plot of "Legend of The Shield Hero" is about a Delta with NEET tendencies that's forced in the position of an Alpha and hates every single moment of it even to the point of tears.


The SSH is a fantastic tool and it helped by have great respect for Japanese propaganda which seeks to build rather than tear down.

Blogger Mother Country December 03, 2019 3:34 PM  

Maybe this explains why I was always attracted to guys who didn't talk much.

Speaking of Hollywood, a while back I watched "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" and began wondering about the SSH as it relates to the characters. John Wayne plays the stolid, hardworking guy who is in love with the female lead, played by Vera Miles. I can't remember all the plot, but there's a really, really bad man. A young lawyer, Jimmy Stewart, has come to town and is directly challenged by the bad man. I think Vera Miles has fallen for the fancypants lawyer, although poor John Wayne was in love with her and about to propose and bring her out to his little homestead. When the big shoot-out happens, Jimmy Stewart stands up to the bad guy, but John Wayne, standing in the shadows, is really the one who kills him dead on the spot. Wayne lets Steward get the girl and all the credit for taking down the bad guy. Jimmy Stewart's character goes on to become the first governor of the state and John Wayne never, ever tells his secret, which of course, would have destroyed him in Vera Miles' eyes, who has become his wife. I cannot for the life of me figure out what is going on in this movie as far as the status of the men goes. Who is the alpha? The bad man? Is Jimmy Stewart a gamma? Is John Wayne a good delta man? Or is he a gamma fantasy?

Blogger Nym Coy December 03, 2019 3:36 PM  

@pdwalker haha, yep! I first thought this was about the convergence of Linux.

Blogger Mother Country December 03, 2019 3:41 PM  

Wait a minute, I figure it out. Jimmy Stewart is the natural alpha, because Vera Miles falls for him instantly. The John Wayne character is a gamma fantasy, because the male viewer can watch the movie and think about the girl who wouldn't give him the time of day, and pretend that he's really John Wayne, the hardworking delta man who is so generous and good-hearted he gives away the love of his life to an interloper. Nobody would do that, would they? They would just kill the bad guy and take the girl, and then they would be the new alpha in town, right? Or would they stay a delta guy? Anyway, all of Jimmy Stewart's aw-shucks routine is to make him likable by the gamma viewer, while Wayne's character is a gamma fantasy the viewer can assume while watching. Is this close?

Blogger Vendas December 03, 2019 3:51 PM  

@24

JAcob had been chosen before he was even born.

Blogger D. H. Rogers December 03, 2019 3:52 PM  

Because of the recent movie coming out, "A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood," I've been wondering about Fred Rogers. My conclusion is that he is a Delta who saw his place in society to encourage proper emotional processing in children. While some might see his seeming mild-mannered demeanor as weak, one reputed characteristic that many testify regarding him was his focused interests in others rather than himself.

Blogger qualitycontrol December 03, 2019 4:11 PM  

I always saw the sexual triumph of the (((nerd))) over the chad by getting the stacy as jewish revenge fantasy against white christian men. But interpreting it with thr SSH in mind works just as well.

Blogger Hoyabembe December 03, 2019 4:26 PM  

I'm starting to think that it was gammas that were allowed to get out of control and ruin the DC movies. The tyranny must end.

Blogger wreckage December 03, 2019 4:52 PM  

Esau's contempt for his inheritance and therefore, by extension, his people and the group, is distinctly not-alpha. But the entire story is subtle and both the leading characters are portrayed in an unflattering light. I believe it to be the kind of morality tale where the listener or reader is expected to work for it.

Blogger Jeroth December 03, 2019 4:53 PM  

qualitycontrol wrote:I always saw the sexual triumph of the (((nerd))) over the chad by getting the stacy as jewish revenge fantasy against white christian men. But interpreting it with thr SSH in mind works just as well.

I think it's both. Diaspora Judaism and gamma behavior seem to be strongly related. Does it get more Secret King than the Jewish guy blending in and stealthily outsmarting the goyim to benefit his own people? For example, Superman is easily interpreted as World Healer/Secret King fantasy. Why does the world's greatest hero walk among all the normal Americans in secret? Probably because the son of Jewish immigrants created him.

Blogger 1LLoyd December 03, 2019 4:55 PM  

I was just thinking of The Philadelphia Story, the one with Cary Grant, Jimmy Stewart, and Kathrine Hepburn. The fiance who worshiped her, she didn't want. The good guy reporter (Jimmy) just wasn't up to the task. But the ex-husband, (Cary), she was always in love with him. And there was no hatred between Cary and Jimmy, just competition.

Blogger Balkan Yankee December 03, 2019 5:11 PM  

@32/34: John Wayne/Tom Doniphon is a rare sigma - a sheep dog - a protector. Who never got Vera Miles/Hailey Stoddard. Because stopping Lee Marvin/Liberty Valance mattered far more than letting Jimmy Stewart/Ransom Stoddard die.

Jimmy Stewart/Ransom Stoddard was a civilized beta with resources, but on the frontier, he malfunctioned like a gamma.

Alas this character had some useful qualities and he could at least offer Vera/Hailey a lifestyle on the frontier closer to the civilized standard she craved. Doniphon, not so much.

Moral of the story: If doing the right thing were easy, then everyone would be Tom Doniphon. No one would want to be Liberty Valance. And civilization would take care of itself.

And as we all know, civilization never takes care of itself.

Note: The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance came out in 1962, well before the current gamma infestation.

Blogger CM December 03, 2019 5:12 PM  

Someone brought up the story of Jacob and Esau. Ever since I was young and first heard that story, I always felt bad for Esau. His younger do-nothing brother lied to his father and stole the blessing from his brother. Yet the story is written such that we are supposed to side with Jacob. I don't understand why God would honor the trickery performed by Jacob and allow the father's blessing to go to the lying thief

If the alpha doesn't value what he has, he'll lose it to the gammas/women?

The story is ultimately Esau being so flippant with his birthright, that he traded it for food. He might have done it as a joke, but he clearly valued it less than Jacob did.

I don't really come away thinking Jacob a hero in the story. More like I pity Esau for being such a fool.

The running theme in many of those stories is the first being last and the last first. So if you apply SSH, how does it look for an Alpha to be last (while still leading)? Jesus would be the ultimate on that test. If he is indeed an Alpha, he's on that put himself last.

Blogger Critias December 03, 2019 5:15 PM  

I wonder.. the SSH is universal and the Japanese are a smart bunch - do they have their own take on it? Or the Chinese? It'd just be interesting to see other culture's perspective on it.

Blogger Dan in Georgia December 03, 2019 5:22 PM  

I need to watch The Eiger Sanction again with the SSH in mind. Clint seems to be a Sigma in real life too.

Blogger OneWingedShark December 03, 2019 5:35 PM  

pnq87 wrote:Someone brought up the story of Jacob and Esau. Ever since I was young and first heard that story, I always felt bad for Esau. His younger do-nothing brother lied to his father and stole the blessing from his brother. Yet the story is written such that we are supposed to side with Jacob. I don't understand why God would honor the trickery performed by Jacob and allow the father's blessing to go to the lying thief.

Vox, can you help us understand the meaning of this story?

There are several parts to the story. One important part is that Esau sold his birthright (ie God; see Gen 25); the 'despised' here is the low regard/valuation assigned to the birthright by Esau, comparing and contrasting with Abraham/Isaac, when God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, Abraham believed God with respect to Isaac BEING the heir to the covenant: this meant that (had God not provided a ram) God would have had to raise Isaac from the dead in order to keep His word.

As others have said, too, God is bigger than Alpha/Gamma.

Mother Country wrote:I cannot for the life of me figure out what is going on in this movie as far as the status of the men goes. Who is the alpha? The bad man? Is Jimmy Stewart a gamma? Is John Wayne a good delta man? Or is he a gamma fantasy?
Remember, SSH is fractal, so you could easily have a story about two Deltas trying to make their way which are situationally Beta or Alpha in other groups. And just because you "lose" doesn't make you a gamma, sometimes "shit happens". — I'd have to watch the movie to really see, but if the motivations for John Wayne keeping quiet are, essentially, that the commotion of the truth getting out simply "isn't worth it" it would put a different spin on it. I'm sure you've been in situations where you were in a disagreement and were right but the cost of 'being right' simply wasn't worth it; same thing could be had with "raising social status".

Blogger Ransom Smith December 03, 2019 5:44 PM  

This is still a trend in Japan- watch any romance or ecchi anime
Anime has been like that for a while.
Look at Dragon Ball Z where the kind hearted but dead beat dad Goku is more successful than the arrogant better dad Vegeta.
Also, Mobile Suit Gundam Wing exits. Where the protagonist threatens to kill the love interest on multiple occasions because she keeps interfering with his goals.

Blogger Cataline Sergius December 03, 2019 5:47 PM  

The Cri de Coeur and anthem of Gamma Males everywhere.

Blogger JovianStorm December 03, 2019 6:09 PM  

Only idiots, incels and weird low-value women watch romance anime.

But anime itself is pablum for the masses as a form of cultural propaganda that mollifies desires to exceed one's station in life

Blogger English Tom December 03, 2019 6:13 PM  

@Mother Country

The bad man was played by Lee Marvin.

Blogger Dwayne Thundergrit December 03, 2019 6:19 PM  

@31

'Welcome To the NHK' is in that same vein. My son and I were talking about how it's a funny series but absolutely targeted propaganda. I don't see how even the target demographic doesn't realize it but then I'm not Japanese where the answer to everything is 'work harder'.

Blogger Oswald December 03, 2019 6:21 PM  

Women like men that make them feel safe from attacks by other men. And they know it takes a Lion to fight off a tiger. Do you think the men of the HMS Glowworm had trouble getting dates? I think not.

Blogger map December 03, 2019 6:27 PM  

The rise of gamma behavior is largely due to two factors: increasing inequality and the attempt to flatten institutional structures in the name of equality.

Remember, within any group, if your status is not equal or better to the people around you, then you have no relationship with them, no matter what the appearance to the contrary may be. If you exist as this non-equal in the group, then you are effectively at the bottom of the group. You have three choices in such an arrangement: either raise your status, lower the status of others, or disengage completely. To stay without making that conscious change, means you will be turned into a member of someone else’s audience. Eventually, such an audience gets replaced very quickly.

The gamma behavior at the guy’s birthday party illustrated in the recent Mailvox is exactly this dynamic: the low status person among higher status people trying to raise his status or lower the status of others, but, failing, because the rest of them know he is a low status person. The question to ask is: why was such a low-status person invited to the birthday party to begin with? Furthermore, you are seeing this behavior because the option of low-status people to disengage completely is being removed.

The trope of the gamma stabbing the Alpha in the back is an interesting storyline except for one little problem: Alphas and gammas do not normally socialize. It used to be a big deal, for example, to be invited to the boss’s house for dinner or to have the boss over to your house for dinner. It was, rightfully, an event, where the lower status person is auditioning his private, personal family life in front of his higher status employer. Thankfully, those events were rare and voluntary. Now? The boss has his “team” where he insists on “team” outings and “team” lunches and “team” building and “team” holiday parties and “team” after-work events. This exhausting “team” nonsense forces people to audition their private lives constantly, where failure to do so could result in unemployment. If the private life is, however, inferior to that of others, and forced to be put on display, then the gamma behavior comes out, as the choice to either “raise status” or “lower status of others” is forced, especially when disengaging is not an option. Usually, this new dynamic is just a management power-play over underlings who no longer work to take care of families or who don’t make enough to entertain themselves with consumption.

To recover from gamma, one has to understand this status dynamic operating within every group. Always raise your status in obvious and important ways if maintenance of the group dynamic is paramount. Otherwise, simply disengage and do something else. As far as women are concerned, they are reacting not to “gamma” but to your low-status and any behavior that is incongruous with that low status…like hitting on them while being you. Again, raise your status in the world.



Blogger RealTalk103 December 03, 2019 7:00 PM  

Interesting stuff.

Blogger Weouro December 03, 2019 7:13 PM  

Interesting to see the SSH turning a corner with introduction of "bravo" and discussing the downside of alpha and sigma.

Blogger Shane Bradman December 03, 2019 7:59 PM  

The Japanese understand the gamma amazingly well. In Vagabond, Miyamoto Musashi is doing his own thing and some loser from his village attaches himself to Musashi and declares that they are partners. He abandons Musashi when he comes under attack then poses as Sasaki Kojiro to get attention and praise. He causes all of his own problems and is a big mama's boy. And literally nobody gives a fraction of a damn about him.

Blogger Dwayne Thundergrit December 03, 2019 8:09 PM  

What I find interesting to think about how much damage you can do by undermining the status of an opponent's Deltas and how much of the current propaganda campaign in the US seems to be aimed at exactly that along with encouraging Gammas to be Gammas

Blogger Korbin Ransley December 03, 2019 9:14 PM  

I remember The man who shot Liberty Valance. After watching it I thought it was John Wayne's character who shot Valance. But was it? I caught it more than once but it was a while back. Didn't Woody Strode play Pompey in the movie? I remember him in the restaurant scene. Where was he when Liberty caught it? 8^)

I can't imagine John Wayne's character being a Gamma in this movie. I'm not surprised somebody pegged him for a Sigma.

Voxiversity episodes focusing on Deltas, Bravos, and Omegas sometime in the future would be welcome.

Blogger John Rockwell December 03, 2019 10:00 PM  

"Shouldn’t a lady who is truly prudent and sensitive be attracted more to me than to Niou? Yet how hard it is to find women of such refined sensibility!"

Weak effetes don't deserve to have families.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 03, 2019 10:13 PM  

"I always felt bad for Esau. His younger do-nothing brother lied to his father and stole the blessing from his brother."

You'll notice in other parts of the Bible that refer to Jacob and Esau, some make it very clear that Esau was punished for disrespecting his birthright. Once he agreed to hand it over to Jacob for soup, Jacob was free to screw him over. This was far from the only way Esau disrespected his heritage and inheritance either.

Was Jacob slimy? Yes, but he had his eyes on the prize, and Esau didn't.

As to why there are so many more gammas now:

Because times have been easy and they and their fathers weren't punished/destroyed for it. Because a myriad of perverse social incentives indicate, reward, and excuse that behavior. Because our country is senile and suffering the effects of it, such as amnesically forgetting where it came from and why. Because the vain won't get their hands dirty.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 03, 2019 10:29 PM  

There is a point too where men are expected to declare, verbally or otherwise, "no man's the boss of me anymore". They are stepping up, taking charge, the new generation of pillars and leaders. Men who always follow every little unspoken assumed rule never assert authority and are rightly seen as weak or fearful men unable to take charge.

It's a form of desirable but unspeakable thing too. Like silence, once it's spoken of it's gone. If someone has to tell you to take charge, you can't because you're just obeying them at that point.

So, yes, people in general make shit-test rules and standards. Some of them are there because other weak men let them happen, some are there as a rite of manhood, you either "get it" naturally or you're not mature yet.

Blogger Shane Bradman December 03, 2019 10:35 PM  

@58. Voxiversity on bravo will be the most fun. Bravos are my favourite people to hang around.

Blogger Nate December 03, 2019 11:39 PM  

CS Lewis "Great Divorce" has a fantastic depiction of Gamma. perhaps the best I've ever read.

Blogger S1AL December 04, 2019 1:05 AM  

Better than Eustace Clarence Scrubb? Lewis was on top of his stuff. Damn.

Blogger Shimshon December 04, 2019 3:13 AM  

Esau despised the birthright and sold it for a bowl of lentil stew. The blessing came with the birthright. Jacob had to resort to trickery to get what was his due.

Blogger Avalanche December 04, 2019 6:58 AM  

@46 "if the motivations for John Wayne keeping quiet are, essentially, that the commotion of the truth getting out simply "isn't worth it""

Might it not also be that 'out of love for the woman' he gave her up to a better life than he could give her? Wayne's character must have known he could never offer her the frontier version of lollipops and fancypants; and Stewart could.

I've not seen the movie, but I'm glimpsing "for God so loved the world, that He gave...." (But I suppose that would mean it was NOT written and filmed as part of the (((intentional destruction))) of our nation by interlopers?

Blogger RobertDWood December 04, 2019 7:37 AM  

No, nothing giving credit to Jacob for the conniving.

It is only after the wrestling episode, in the flesh, with the Lord, that he is given the name Israel and the full covenant is revealed. From there the Willy Jacob part receeds and the alpha patriarchal Israel is the presented Jacob.

Makes sense. Gotta graduate from Gamma.

Blogger michimartini December 04, 2019 8:18 AM  

Guilty.

Blogger Mother Country December 04, 2019 9:44 AM  

#66 Avalanche said: Might it not also be that 'out of love for the woman' he gave her up to a better life than he could give her? Wayne's character must have known he could never offer her the frontier version of lollipops and fancypants; and Stewart could.

That was my take on the John Wayne character's motivation too, Avalanche. Possibly this take on the movie is our female minds at work, making everything about us. I noticed that the men here saw it differently: someone commented that he realized that the bad guy had to be killed, and he couldn't take a chance that Stewart's character would fail. Either way, it's a wonderful movie, worth watching. BTW, I never thought Wayne's character was gamma, just that the character might provide the gamma viewer with a convenient fantasy; but the more I think about it, all the male characters can be seen that way, even the bad guy, who is real life would not have been Lee Marvin. Hollywood, even then, was in the business of fantasy, but back then, the fantasies at least were not overtly evil.

Blogger OneWingedShark December 04, 2019 1:33 PM  

Dwayne Thundergrit wrote:What I find interesting to think about how much damage you can do by undermining the status of an opponent's Deltas and how much of the current propaganda campaign in the US seems to be aimed at exactly that along with encouraging Gammas to be Gammas
I was thinking about this myself, it seems to me that there's a sort of push to do this societally, especially how the feminist-thought goes. Just look at how the idea is pushed at women that "if he doesn't make you feel loved and appreciated all the time, and care for your wants/needs then he's garbage and you should leave him", which is simply reiterating the Big-Lie they told in the `50s: that housewives were being undervalued/oppressed. — This inherently undermines the Delta mindset/drive to see the family taken care of, to provide, simply by making every inattention, every instance of "I'm tired, let me rest", every time that he wasn't the wife's "bestest-ever gal-pal" into a critical deficiency that is "absolutely" "for-sure" justification for divorcing him. (Read that sentence with mocking cynicism at the end.)

Vox mentioned, some time back, something to the effect that the general health of a society could be gauged by how easy it made it for the Delta to 'succeed', societally speaking. — I think this is why Gen-X/Millennials look back at 50s and 60s and wish things could be more like that [hell, even 80s], because back then you could be a solid, dependable Ward Cleaver type (Leave it to Beaver) and didn't have to be a super-alpha/big-boss like Trump to be considered a [social] success.

map wrote:Remember, within any group, if your status is not equal or better to the people around you, then you have no relationship with them, no matter what the appearance to the contrary may be. If you exist as this non-equal in the group, then you are effectively at the bottom of the group. You have three choices in such an arrangement: either raise your status, lower the status of others, or disengage completely.
I think I get wat you're saying, but this is fundamentally false and an unhealthy thought-pattern/behavior: there are places where you ARE of a lower rank than those above you and attempting to wrest that authority away (ie raise your status) will have dire consequences. Example: military. Moreover, there IS relationship from the higher to the lower — this is fundamental in any serious study of leadership, and even Sun Tzu mentions it: Treat your men as you would your own beloved sons. And they will follow you into the deepest valley is exactly counseling the leader to form a relationship with his men, one where they are precious to him and not to be carelessly discarded.

TL;DR — If there were no 'subordinates' there would be no 'superiors', if there were no 'followers' there would be no 'leaders'; there is no shame in understanding that authority may mean you are the one receiving orders, the one giving orders, and that may change as-needed.

Blogger wreckage December 04, 2019 11:07 PM  

Alphas are partly recognizable from their recognition that the leader exists for the welfare of the group. If you are in a group with no leadership obligations to subordinates, the joint is being run by gammas. Alphas, Betas and Deltas all recognize that personal success is *maximized* by successful group action. And successful group action, as any Arab military leader can tell you, is almost impossible when there is no mutual obligation dynamic.

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