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Monday, December 09, 2019

The end of Greek civilization

As it is often said, societies are less often murdered than commit suicide.

In our time all Greece was visited by a dearth of children and generally a decay of population, owing to which the cities were denuded of inhabitants, and a failure of productiveness resulted, though there were no long-continued wars or serious pestilences among us. If, then, any one had advised our sending to ask the gods in regard to this, what we were to do or say in order to become more numerous and better fill our cities,—would he not have seemed a futile person, when the cause was manifest and the cure in our own hands?

For this evil grew upon us rapidly, and without attracting attention, by our men becoming perverted to a passion for show and money and the pleasures of an idle life, and accordingly either not marrying at all, or, if they did marry, refusing to rear the children that were born, or at most one or two out of a great number, for the sake of leaving them well off or bringing them up in extravagant luxury. For when there are only one or two sons, it is evident that, if war or pestilence carries off one, the houses must be left heirless: and, like swarms of bees, little by little the cities become sparsely inhabited and weak.
- Polybius 140 BC

Read that, then think about how many Americans don't have children because they a) fear divorce or b) fear being unable to pay for college educations.

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132 Comments:

Blogger Tanjil Bren December 09, 2019 8:39 PM  

"...They a) fear divorce or b) fear being unable to pay for college educations."

They fear.

Blogger Meanoldbasterd December 09, 2019 8:44 PM  

Is this from a particular collection or publication by Polybius?

Blogger David The Good December 09, 2019 8:47 PM  

Wimps.

Blogger johndoe03526 December 09, 2019 8:48 PM  

Northern Song dynasty of China also comes to mind.

Blogger Raker_T December 09, 2019 8:48 PM  

"I know a guy" who married a gal whose parents were keen on politics, leaning toward Libertarian thought, I guess. The parents thought the state shouldn't be involved in marriage, so the event was held in a park, and the couple exchanged vows in front of a large crowd, but a marriage license was never obtained. Decades later, said dude would have been in deep doo had the marriage been legal.
In fact, I guess it's like the other thing, not being able to afford stuff. That's huge, and I'm not talking about college. Anyway, what both situations have in common is the third party problem. Young people think we need socialism, that rich people are evil, and I'm like "No no no, leave the rich people alone, they're the only ones who can afford me". I'm not talking about a lawyer's salary, but in order to get $20 per hour, one must bill 40 per, to cover time spent on tangential stuff. I think it's another economic indicator when blue collar people can't afford to hire each other.

Blogger SigSyndicate December 09, 2019 8:48 PM  

Read that, then think about how many Americans don't have children because they a) fear divorce or b) fear being unable to pay for college educations.

Even more depressing reasons than that. I can't tell you how many people I know say they're never having kids out of a genuine hatred for life and the society in which they live. The reasons they give vary, from "climate change" to "the economy" to "I just don't like children", but the paper thin excuses all reveal a genuine hate and resentment towards existence itself.

Blogger p_q December 09, 2019 8:50 PM  

Considering DINKs, and young couples I've seen, the lack of babies has more to do with just not wanting them than fear of divorce and also a powerful fear of economic hardship. Babies also bring home the fact that you're on your way out, one couple in my church have gotten stern with their parents telling them not to ask when their grandchildren will come.

Other things I consider important factors the shame of being unable to easily meet the cost of a family, and loss of freedom as once you start a family there's no way out. I knew a man who left his family while his son was still in high school, he wanted to go find himself there's a loss of power flighty people fear when they start a family.

Babies limit options and are heavy investments, I firmly believe if women remained perfectly fertile and youthful looking into their 50s that many families would start in the 40-60s range even if our life span wasn't much longer. Rich celebrities already have insane first birth ages without this fantasy scenario.


Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 09, 2019 8:52 PM  

The decision to enslave and exploit the young adults of our society will be counted the the greatest of the grabblers' crimes. The idea was to enable college educations for the ineducable as a sacrament of the Cargo Cult. By removing bankruptcy protections, the Boomers allowed the (((Universities))) to enslave an entire generation both of Americans and of foreigners.

Doing so, the extended and completed the Silent Generation's attempt to brainwash the young into infertility, so there would be more room for foreigners.

Blogger glueballs December 09, 2019 9:01 PM  

Your ancient greeks weren't raised under (((usary))) and related social control. Modern American kids are chattel livestock and the smart ones appreciate this including my nephew who was a stud on Princeton's football team recently. The best of the best in my family will not be slaves, in this world, and consequently they will not be having babies, none. Brilliant white pure European with blonde hair and blue eyes with athletic 6'2+ tall builds and 120+ IQs and they are not going to reproduce, not a single child. Unlike some here (cough) born with silver spoons in their mouths all they feel and operate under is the urgent necessity to survive in this global economy. Mazeltov.

Blogger VD December 09, 2019 9:14 PM  

The best of the best in my family will not be slaves, in this world, and consequently they will not be having babies, none.

They are worse than slaves, they are neutered and defeated without a battle. They will not survive; their genes will die with them. They are fools and cowards.

Blogger BillHinDaytona December 09, 2019 9:15 PM  

Most stuff is done for reasons that made some sense at the time. In the aggregate, however, these changes create soul-crushing burdens. The bankruptcy protections were removed in the late 1970s because bankruptcy was being abused. Then the prices went through the roof. Now it amounts to indentured servitude.

I have a good friend who is a millionaire. He has two sisters, both unmarried and childless. I was unmarried and am childless. His wife's best friend are a very successful couple, again childless.

Over the holidays, there is ONE child, a girl. Vast wealth and education ... and no more people.

Blogger DourCdn December 09, 2019 9:16 PM  

We look at children as if they are consumer goods like cars. Can I afford one? wouldn't it be nice to have 2, but for the payments. I'm suprise there isn't a used kid market, sorry pre-owned.

Blogger Lushtree December 09, 2019 9:18 PM  

"Our enemies win if we oppose them."

Blogger Sargent.matrim December 09, 2019 9:25 PM  

I know people who are the decendants of white slaves taken by the Barbary pirates. They are great people, that would not exist if their descendants thought like many young people today.

Have babies while the plague is raging. Have babies no matter how hard things get. That is how you win in the long term.

It's disgusting how many young people today, refuse to do for society what society did for them: give them birth.

Blogger Nathan Hornok December 09, 2019 9:26 PM  

"if they did marry, refusing to rear the children that were born, or at most one or two out of a great number"

Without modern birth control I'm assuming many babies were still being born. It's not like human nature to ever stop having sex. Did these ancient Greeks infanticide the other children, or let them be sold into slavery?

Blogger BassmanCO December 09, 2019 9:29 PM  

glueballs, in case you were wondering, you are a cowardly piece of shit, along with the rest of your family.

Blogger Cy True December 09, 2019 9:32 PM  

I have a good wife that I'm putting through school. Have two kids and one on the way. Life is good, thank you Jesus.

Blogger Andrew F December 09, 2019 9:33 PM  

"fear being unable to pay for college educations"

This is another reason why sending (or the idea of sending) women to college is dysgenic and anti-civilizational. I recently had my first daughter, and I'm thinking that a gym membership and a down payment for a farmette as a dowry is the way to go.

Blogger The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey December 09, 2019 9:42 PM  

The dilemma of Greece was clear after the Battle of Asculum against the Romans, defended by Greek King Pyrrhus. The Greeks won, and they inflicted far more casualties on Rome than they themselves suffered. But they could not replace those they lost. King Pyrrhus said famously said at the time that "one more such victory will undo us!"

But he was wrong. He was already undone and he didn't know it. Greece was already demographically sclerotic and a Dead Man Walking. The Romans re-filled their ranks and came back and that was all she wrote for Greek independence until who? Lord Byron?

Blogger Lazarus December 09, 2019 9:44 PM  

glueballs family needs to get them some Big Bear Balls.

Blogger widlast washere December 09, 2019 9:47 PM  

The modern world is a strange place. My brother and I grew up knowing what was expected.
You found a suitable wife got married, worked hard, had family, and home. He, 10 years my younger married a girl of Finn ancestry and had 4 boys, I married late and had two sons. All of us are staunch Christian and will continue to do well. For the life of me, I don't grasp how folks don't get that the future belongs to those who show up.

Blogger thomasblair December 09, 2019 9:49 PM  

My wife and I want more children so badly we've spent north of $60k on fertility treatments. We have one last embryo to transfer. I pray it takes and the Lord blesses us with another child.

Woe to those who have squandered their natural fecundity out of cowardice.

Blogger Cataline Sergius December 09, 2019 9:49 PM  

The best of the best in my family will not be slaves, in this world, and consequently they will not be having babies, none.

There we are. My average day in 2019 is now complete.

I have once again read the stupidest thing I have ever read in my life.

Blogger pnq87 December 09, 2019 9:50 PM  

...or, if they did marry, refusing to rear the children that were born, or at most one or two out of a great number,

So if they were having babies but refusing to "rear" them what does that mean? Did the children die? If the children didn't die then how is this relevant to the cities being empty?

Blogger JovianStorm December 09, 2019 9:55 PM  

I'm physically incapable of fathering but I can adopt infants and raise them in the way of the Lord.

You don't need to be a biological father to be a force of good, I think.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 09, 2019 9:58 PM  

"Unlike some here (cough) born with silver spoons in their mouths all they feel and operate under is the urgent necessity to survive in this global economy."

Fear.

Know what it is when you let fear kill you? Cowardice. To choose not to have kids is to suicide.

Courage is finding the way you have a shot at life, however slim, and gunning for it with all you can.

It's not that some here were born with silver spoons. It's that some here were born with testicles.

Blogger bodenlose Schweinerei December 09, 2019 10:01 PM  

Brilliant white pure European with blonde hair and blue eyes with athletic 6'2+ tall builds and 120+ IQs and they are not going to reproduce

Maybe we need a program, let's call, umm, Lebensborn, eh Herr Doktor?

The reasons they give vary, from "climate change" to "the economy" to "I just don't like children"

Anyone using "climate change" as an excuse should not only be prevented from reproducing, they should be removing their useless carbon-spewing selves from the environment tout suite.

Blogger Sillon December 09, 2019 10:04 PM  

Those not reproducing are losing the game.

Don't be a loser.

Children aren't a limit for a Man and a Woman,they're family and future.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch December 09, 2019 10:13 PM  

A little something I wrote about the Indo-Greek Empire, which most people have never heard of:

Alexander the Great thought that he was to plant a Grecian stronghold on what was considered to be the other side of the known world. But alas, this kingdom was only to last two centuries before being swallowed up by the surrounding population of locals. Marriage treaties diluted the Greek influence within a generation, and the ethnicity of later Indo-Greeks is not very clear at all. Before long, a mixture of ethnicity and religion (Greek mythology, Buddhism, and the Bhagavata cult) made everything ambiguous.

By 70 B.C. the Indo-Greek Kingdom lost control over the Hindu Kush territories, the Central territories by 48 B.C., and the Eastern territories ten years before the birth of Jesus Christ. Although it might be said there was still some kind of Greek nuclei in Afghanistan and India up to 100 A.D., the Greek influence was surely gone by the time Islam had conquered Afghanistan in the 600s. To this day, it is only the tiny Punjab region of northern India that claims a mere 15% of Greek genetic origin.


http://forge-and-anvil.com/2018/11/12/demographics-is-destiny-no-more-republican-party-part-1/

It's kind of sad, but I truly do think that's probably what's going to happen to the American Nation. Just as it happened to the French of Hispanola, the white South Africans, the Rhodesians, and so on.

Blogger Riejun December 09, 2019 10:14 PM  

My wife and I waited until everything was "perfect" to have kids... I just turned 48 and she 46 and with God's blessing, we were able to have two perfect boys, now ages 11 and 3. All natural, no IVF or other medical assistance. We are "old" parents, but my boys make me smile everyday, they are a blessing. I wish we had more... They don't make me feel old, or poor, or less fulfilled or that I can't be myself, or whatever the excuse... I've learned to be patient, caring, a better leader, a teacher and mentor, and to see that life isn't just about ME, but is now about my family. Their fates aren't determined, there are many ways to succeed in life without following the predetermined paths set by the elite. Many need to be less black-pilled and nihilistic, you are such miserable people...

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 09, 2019 10:17 PM  

glueballs wrote:The best of the best in my family will not be slaves, in this world, and consequently they will not be having babies, none.
Then they are not the "best of the best" They are the worst. The worst of the worst. The literal, scientifically defined worst. They are simple parasites. They have failed their primary function, raising the next generation. They are useless as tits on a sandbag.

All men are slaves. There is no other option. You are either a slave to duty and to God, or you are at best slave to your sin. Your family are slaves to greed and vanity. At worst, slaves to fear and self-worship.

I have 11 children, on a more-or-less middle-class income. Somebody telling me they can't afford to have children is deserving of all the mockery I can muster.

Blogger John Rockwell December 09, 2019 10:25 PM  

You can find more here
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0234%3Abook%3D37%3Achapter%3D9

Blogger John Rockwell December 09, 2019 10:28 PM  

Here is the thing. Why does one want to bring sons up in luxury?

Wouldnt this effeminate them and ultimately destroy the Patrilineal line?

Blogger RedJack December 09, 2019 10:28 PM  

Wish I could have had more. Had issues.

Blogger John Rockwell December 09, 2019 10:30 PM  

They expose the children and the babies die.

Blogger Raker_T December 09, 2019 10:39 PM  

11 children? Et tu Snid?
@ 23 'hold my beer' First there was air guitar, then air quotes, now I propose air ellipsis. You hold your hand in a loose fist, with one finger pointed toward the one you're talking to, or the lens. If that's way too many micro aggressions, then point to the side a bit. You simply make three little poking motions, like dit-dit-dit. Seems like a perfect gesture.
Not stupid enough? Ok, what about having a high speed collision of two words, attempting for a synthesis of sorts. It's like this:
Ignorant + annoying = ignoying. You can see the utility of such a word right?

Blogger SigSyndicate December 09, 2019 10:40 PM  

glueballs wrote: Modern American kids are chattel livestock ...

The best of the best in my family will not be slaves, in this world, and consequently they will not be having babies, none. Unlike some here (cough) born with silver spoons in their mouths all they feel and operate under is the urgent necessity to survive in this global economy.


Kuroiki-no-Ouji wrote:
The reasons they give vary, from "climate change" to "the economy" to "I just don't like children", but the paper thin excuses all reveal a genuine hate and resentment towards existence itself.


The prosecution would like to present Exhibit A to the jury.

Blogger Chris Ritchie December 09, 2019 10:40 PM  

We made a commitment to trust God instead of Margaret Sanger's demonic philosophy that the church lustily imbibed. Fewer children and the attendant wealth it allows is literally blood money. You've exchanged creature comforts for the lives of human beings. And not just any human beings, but your own flesh and blood: your future heirs. We have 7 children and might have more. We are surviving on one income. The financial burdens are not as difficult as the opportunity cost of "what might have been." But it is absolutely worth it. The smile of one of my five sons, the daughters running up to me to tell me about their day.

Obey God or watch your culture fade into oblivion.

I like a quote I read recently: "But God has given us this chance in time. We must do what we can."

Blogger Doktor Jeep December 09, 2019 10:40 PM  

I am of no use to God yet my life is spared 4 times from the jaws of bad luck and stupidity. For what, I do not know. Punishment? To catch the tail end of all that is good, from something within reach of my own hand to things as large as the nation as live in, as degeneracy and entropy take them to ruin? To hear of wings of doom flapping every day, and wonder if they are attached to my own back?

At times on this blog I see our host put his foot down on black pilling, this "we're doomed!" mindset. I think Owen has a detailed grasp on this. I know what these men are doing. But there is an even more insidious form of blackpilling designed to look like advocacy. I learned to spot it, and felt the fool for not having seen it so easily early on. Evil is like that. After the battle we will be saying "That was it? Really? This whole time?"

It's the evil of "(insert thing here) will cost you 6 gajillion dollars!" That thing is anything good. Having kids. Having a family. Having a business. Whatever. Where dollars don't figure in, they come up with some other horror you have to go through to get there. These are the same people that yell "COPS! COPS!" when you goose your muscle car even when there are none around for miles, or yell "COPYRIGHT!" When you play some really cool music on youtube. It's a form of evil, I guess.

Most of the time there are only a few people left on this planet that I listen to.

Blogger Wrenchturner December 09, 2019 10:41 PM  

I grew up coming home from school to divorce court coming on at 5 pm. I'll be 45 in a week I regret not having children.

Blogger Lazarus December 09, 2019 10:43 PM  

It's kind of sad, but I truly do think that's probably what's going to happen to the American Nation

The Greeks still have Greece. What will Americans have?

Blogger Dave December 09, 2019 10:47 PM  

Trump's been making the courts great (again?) and the Left is starting to figure it out:

Ian Millhiser @imillhiser
I did an extraordinarily deep dive into Trump's judges, who they are, what they mean for the country, and how fucked Democrats are because of them.

The answer to the last question is "super fucked."


https://t.co/98M407h1Zp

Blogger Don December 09, 2019 11:04 PM  

How old were you when you got to #11? I’m at 4 boys at 39 and plan on having more at 43ish. Wifey is 29.

Blogger cyrus83 December 09, 2019 11:06 PM  

Children are only expensive if parents make it that way. The key to affording children in the middle and lower class is to have the mother stay home and raise the kids while the father works and being frugal when buying groceries, clothes, and the toys and activities. This also allows for home-schooling the kids and keeping them away from the soul-sucking vampires running most primary and secondary schools.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd December 09, 2019 11:07 PM  

Children are cheap if you raise them right. It's hard to make'em pay if you don't have a farm or a mine or a fishing boat, but they're a cheap luxury.

Blogger SmokeyJoe December 09, 2019 11:30 PM  

Is the State needed to make a marriage or be a third party to it? Who is needed?

Blogger Lazarus December 09, 2019 11:32 PM  

and the toys and activities.

our toys were sticks and cardboard boxes.

Our activities were playing with sticks and cardboard boxes.

One time, we had a couple of shotgun cartridges we tried to set off with rocks

Don't feel deprived at all.

Blogger Jose Miguel December 09, 2019 11:35 PM  

@31

Snidely you are an inspiration, my wife and I want as many as God will give and are hoping for at least five. Any advice on raising that many on a middle class income you could share?

Blogger Toris December 09, 2019 11:38 PM  

So Polybius was a bear railing against fancy pants.

Blogger Sterling Pilgrim December 09, 2019 11:39 PM  

I might as well tell of the current quagmire I find myself in with my elder single, childless sister. She has hit the wall and looks to me, happily married with four kids, to help her patch the crater of lonely regret that she finds in her own soul. Has used phrases like “sharing” my happiness “with her”, and attacks my Christianity for lacking love because we enforce boundaries. She was offered a chance to see us and our kids Christmas afternoon, and though “you know I love those kids so much” she refused the offer because she “doesn’t feel trusted”. The wife and I have held the line, and my sister, along with my mother(raised in a house of three girls and a father who died young) have made cutting them out of the holidays the only safe option. It is the single longest, illogical, and maddening fit I’ve ever experienced and it all comes down to her viewing my blessed family as a salve for her derelict existence.

Blogger glueballs December 09, 2019 11:46 PM  

Appreciate some of you who encapsulated important information for my nephews, especially the Princeton stud. All on one thread. I also will link similar channels why children are their purpose. And so I will be equipped to address resistance during our familial Christmas visitation together. It wasn't me you need to persuade, and thanks!

As with a certain Mr. Dixon posting here, my wife and I, 20+ years married, were not physically able to create children. We have been responding to my wife's cancer since shortly after our engagement. Whatcha gonna do.

Blogger Son of John December 10, 2019 12:02 AM  

Every Child is a gift from god- a muslim told me this. He was in California where I'm from. Brings up Vox's previous post about J.D. unwin's work. The muslim immigrants have more 'cultural energy' than the typical "white" Californian. The writing's on the wall.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( no need to be racist, Ratchets can Karen better than anybody ) December 10, 2019 12:03 AM  

this state subsidizes the murder and mutilation of children.

this state endorses and enforces 'acceptance' of queers of all stripes, in all areas of life.

this state has engaged in false flag incidents resulting in the murder of hundreds of thousands of patriotic servicemen.

this state demands No Fault divorces ( https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Malachi+2%3A16&version=NKJV ), with no consequences for an initiating party who simply got bored.

i will not, under any circumstances, submit to THIS state for permission to marry.

particularly as it encourages cohabitation anyways.

Blogger allyn71 December 10, 2019 12:06 AM  

@9 blueballs....." and consequently they will not be having babies, none. Brilliant white pure European with blonde hair and blue eyes with athletic 6'2+ tall builds and 120+ IQs and they are not going to reproduce..."

I would tell you to FOAD but you already have. Future belongs to those that show up....Loser.

Blogger Son of John December 10, 2019 12:08 AM  

@9 "survive in the global economy" Genetic death is not surviving in any sense of the word.

Blogger allyn71 December 10, 2019 12:15 AM  

@38 Chris Ritchie We made a commitment to trust God instead of Margaret Sanger's demonic philosophy that the church lustily imbibed.

You are rewarded in this world and I pray the next for your fidelity.

Blogger allyn71 December 10, 2019 12:26 AM  

@51 Blueballs."..were not physically able to create children. We have been responding to my wife's cancer since shortly after our engagement."

Because of moderation requirements my reply was before I was able to see you posted the higlighted reply. I am sorry for your troubles, truly I am. I thought you were just a nihilistic piece of shit that was checking out.

That said, man you have an obligation to be an example and lead your family forward. I haven't read a more black pilled piece of bilge than your original post here in a long time...and that is saying something. Sorry for your troubles, I really am, but that doesn't give you license to say...we are fucked give up now. Screw that we fight, anyway we can. Don't accept the nihilism in your family...fight! Even if you only win over one, that is enough.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf December 10, 2019 12:33 AM  

This cycle is extremely interesting. I'd like to know if we could obtain DNA samples before and after various collapsed societies. It's not like the Greek men worried about college tuition or divorce (or did they?)

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction December 10, 2019 12:38 AM  

@7

Brilliant white pure European with blonde hair and blue eyes with athletic 6'2+ tall builds and 120+ IQs and they are not going to reproduce...

Oh no whatever shall we do.../s

Blogger pdwalker December 10, 2019 12:59 AM  

@54 allyn71 be not so quick to judge before you know the why

Blogger sammibandit December 10, 2019 1:06 AM  

It's kind of funny how Polybius raised the question if it's right minded to ask God for help for this problem. I can't put my finger on why it's funny, however. Maybe it's that he went on to say that evil is exactly what Boomers did.

Blogger BassmanCO December 10, 2019 1:18 AM  

glueballs, my apologies then. I, and I would say most here, didn't realize you were espousing the beliefs of your family and not your own. Those beliefs are sad and a waste and one hopes they will see the stupidity therein.

Blogger Dwayne Thundergrit December 10, 2019 1:34 AM  

@9 The best of the best in my family will not be slaves . . .


Now that's just funny.

Slaves obey their masters, your master says having children is bad and you should be childless, so you strike a blow against slavery by being a good slave.

Blogger Bernard Korzeniewicz December 10, 2019 1:41 AM  

@VD a'propos the last Darkstream and your idea about Stalin the killer.

The massive killing fields of the Soviet Russia are enormous. Soviets had the techology how to murder up to a hundred people per hour using only few executioner without victims rebelling.
The size of their mass graves is the mayor reason why Poland can not locate graves of 40 000 Polish IIWW POWs killed by Soviets in the spring of 1940.

On the other hand the most persistent false narrative of the XX century was not a Pearl Harbour or Serbian crimes in Kosovo but the 1941 Hitler's attack on Russia. Of course MSM of the West lied on subject and the media of occupied Germany were the part of the setup. But in Russia WHOLE society knew they will attack Hitler in 1941. The propaganda machine was quite open on the sobject. Yet after-the -war narrative was completly opposite. The 208 000 000 people were told to lie to themselves and they did.

Blogger Cluttermonkey December 10, 2019 1:48 AM  

Interestingly, many women on a vegan diet lose their periods and fertility, even with supplementation. Such deficient diets is a new form of self-selecting population growth control.

On the upside, all of this leaves more economic opportunities for the offspring of Christians as we replace the unbelievers genetically. In the medium term, this means more invaders to fight off at a future date, but a restoration of Christendom long term, God willing.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf December 10, 2019 2:03 AM  

Historically, the conquered, the eunuch and the slave didn't procreate. Oh, and the cuckold. And, probably the dysgenic.

Blogger Cluttermonkey December 10, 2019 2:05 AM  

We live in a society.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf December 10, 2019 2:14 AM  

" doesn't feel trusted"....?

Probably for good reason.

Blogger Rattlesnake_Kid December 10, 2019 2:26 AM  

Cool story, rabbi.

Blogger sammibandit December 10, 2019 2:27 AM  

Western mythology has more than a few adoptees/fosters of renown. It's an option great men and men low birth have taken alike where they've had that choice presented. Heck, it's one of the socially mobile tactics we still have.

Blogger weka December 10, 2019 2:31 AM  

Amen. Which is why I tell you men to (o an apprenticeship and avoid university unless you are one of God's geeks.

I am one of the geeks, and Evan have three kids...

Blogger Cetera December 10, 2019 2:47 AM  

"Be fruitful and multiply" was one of the earliest commandments of God. Woe to those who reject it.

I ask for prayers from all who read this blog for those of us who have been unable to have children. I know a regular commenter struggles with it, and my wife and I have not been blessed. We are in our 40s now, and my wife had to have a full hysterectomy a little over four years ago. We had six confirmed miscarriages, and several more that were almost certainly early failed pregnancies without a positive test.

I miss the children we never got to see or hold, and as we age the loss becomes more acute, not less. We are damned to die in the same manner as we celebrate our holidays, alone. It was not a life we had chosen, but it is a cross we have accepted, and we look forward to the day when we will finally be called home and will meet our sons and daughters.

Please pray for us, the barren.

Blogger Bernard Korzeniewicz December 10, 2019 3:17 AM  

Every generation Evil weeds off the stupid and the proud.
The too stupid and too proud to have kids.
I got 2 and than wwife got ill...

Blogger Shane Bradman December 10, 2019 3:37 AM  

Have lots of kids. A family friend died at 23 in a sporting accident. It was devastating for the family, but there are 4 other siblings to carry on the family legacy. If she were an only child that would be an even bigger tragedy. You never know what will happen so have plenty.

Blogger anorganicbear December 10, 2019 3:59 AM  

There was a time when one quarter of all babies just died, and people still had kids.

People today won't have children because they fear ghosts and shadows.

Blogger Monotonous Languor December 10, 2019 4:04 AM  

Lead-in: Are we the targets in an internal war already declared against us?

Basis: A litigious society with 70% of the world's lawyers will have a chilling effect on personal choice and independent action. The effect is made worse when deliberately ambiguous laws are enacted to punish suspected motives or intent (e.g. hate laws). Then complementary laws are passed to attack and/or undermine the traditional family (e.g. abortion). The results are just as effective as if a shooting war had been declared; the main difference is the time frame, slow-motion violence instead of direct concentrated force. Having children is a good and courageous act, but is so indirect as to essentially ignore a vastly superior force arrayed against it.

Response: If we are truly in a war, will we inevitably lose if we don't adopt more violent tactics? Just war theory comes to mind, including tenets from the 1992 Catechism of the Catholic Church:
- the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
- all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
- there must be serious prospects of success;
- the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.

Conclusion: Barring a miracle, just war by a revitalized Church Militant is the only hope of winning.

Blogger Bibliotheca Servare December 10, 2019 4:14 AM  

@Snidely, you are a blessing to me, and a beacon of hope. I'm sure I'll be starting later than you did (27, and haven't met her yet, working on it) but it's always a boon to me to be reminded that the challenges that look insurmountable from my viewing angle are nothing more than a mild hike from the perspective of people who have passed them.

TL;DR
I want to have lots of kids, but it's all too easy for me to lose hope, think I'll be too old, or not have enough money, or health, to manage even one child. Thank you for the added ammunition to use against my inner defeatist/blackpiller.

Blogger Chris Ritchie December 10, 2019 4:20 AM  

@72 - I will pray for you. I know adoption isn't always easy or for everyone. I didn't mean to rub it in people's faces. Here, a large family is ok. Out in the world, we're not just frowned upon, but shunned and sometimes ridiculed. So I can carry a small chip about it at times.

You will meet sons and daughters. I'm praying God will show mercy on you.

Blogger Duke Norfolk December 10, 2019 4:24 AM  

widlast washere wrote:For the life of me, I don't grasp how folks don't get that the future belongs to those who show up.

They don't think the future matters, and so this doesn't reach them at all. It's meaningless to them. Nihilism, and what not.

Blogger Harambe December 10, 2019 4:44 AM  

Having a family is "expensive" because we've grown accustomed to paying others to rear our children. You don't need to pay someone $1000 to teach your kid to swim or how to play with Lego. I mean, good on you for having that kind of disposable cash, but those are two things out of many that you can do your damn self for free and in the process create a stronger bond with your offspring.

Blogger Daniele Grech Pereira December 10, 2019 5:05 AM  

"The best of the best in my family will not be slaves, in this world, and consequently they will not be having babies..."

Sounds really gay.

Blogger John Rockwell December 10, 2019 5:13 AM  

The 4 great Roman Emperors were adult male adoptees.

Especially Trajan best of them all.

Blogger Zastavnik Džemo December 10, 2019 5:15 AM  

My father ran away from home when he was 13 to get a job.

I was born in a house with sand on the floor and with no windows (just blankets over holes during winter).

If you don't have children for economic reasons you are a moron.
Purely statistically, when children come, family income increases, because hay, you work harder for your kids.

Blogger Jay Will December 10, 2019 5:51 AM  

Evil is a material thing. Evil emerges but has also been discovered. Evil can be used via wizardry to lead some down the dead end path.

Once you know this something like porn being watched is consciously partaking in evil. It increases likelihood of you, and those involved that you support by watching it, being barren people.

"Fear of divorce" and "Fear of college debt" are wizard tricks to lead you down the wrong path. Amongst all the other tricks you may easily end up like Carl in Stack's video. This is the path I'm on, so for me to not leave this path now is to consciously choose evil.

This also means that its a matter of truth and error, porn is an error. It also means that when things "click" there are moments when that evil becomes manifest and you reject the error with ease.

The many distractions of modern life are evil sneaking you down the wrong path, your senses don't spot the error easily. This is a click moment, I have just destroyed my sky box in a controlled manner. I lose myself in it and therefore I drift further down the dead end path.



Blogger Brett baker December 10, 2019 6:12 AM  

"Society" tells them don't have kids, though.

Blogger Section 8A December 10, 2019 6:15 AM  

"A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within."

Ariel Durant

Blogger Brett baker December 10, 2019 6:19 AM  

Most of the additional expenses that come with children are housing. The assumption is that you and your spouse are living in a van by the river until pregnancy occurs. Then you rush out and buy a house.

Blogger CostelloM December 10, 2019 6:28 AM  

If we're going to demand people have and raise children then we need to work on doing something other than constantly repeating "coward" at anyone who isn't doing what we want. There are solid reasons for men avoiding marriage and these don't go away by you saying "GAY".
The feminists who've been doing the same thing for 4 decades now. Work to eliminate the family courts or go seek a wife and life abroad - being a husband should not mean you automatically get enslaved to a woman and most men aren't going to agree to that just because you complain about it. Proof? It hasn't worked and still isn't working. And yes I'm married with 3 children just not in the US.

Blogger Stryker4570 December 10, 2019 6:44 AM  

I have two sons and a daughter, and wished I had one or two more. There is a strain of Conservative Lutheranism ( the Church to which we belong) that advocates large families. 5 or 6 kids being common, and 10 or 11 not unheard of.

Blogger Griffin the Grey December 10, 2019 6:49 AM  

They fear.

It is the spirit their master has given them.

Blogger MidnightSun December 10, 2019 6:59 AM  

@9 glueballs
Something just does not ring true with your statements. I think your full of it. Sorry if I'm wrong.

Blogger Zaklog the Great December 10, 2019 8:02 AM  

Read that, then think about how many Americans don't have children because they a) fear divorce or b) fear being unable to pay for college educations.

I don't disagree with your overall point, but for many of us, college education is pretty far down the list of economic fears. Many of us are trying to figure out how we can afford to live in a neighborhood where we don't fear for our children's safety. Endless immigration + diversity are putting us in a very tight place.

Blogger Ska_Boss December 10, 2019 8:16 AM  

I don't buy the whole economic factors preventing people from having kids argument, it's just a cop-out. I grew up poor in a single mother household with 3 siblings. In fact, my less than ideal upbringing is my main motivation for working so hard and becoming as successful and independent as I am.

That being said, I have my own reasons for opting out of the family game, none of which I care to debate here.

Blogger Andrew F December 10, 2019 8:36 AM  

Yes, prayers. Thank you for sharing. There are many families that have suffered the loss of a child through miscarriage or who struggle with infertility. When I was young, I just took being able to have children for granted. For all the "Sex Ed" I encountered in both private and public schools, infertility and miscarriages were either not discussed or were just glossed over.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd December 10, 2019 8:49 AM  

cyrus83 wrote:Children are only expensive if parents make it that way. The key to affording children in the middle and lower class is to have the mother stay home and raise the kids while the father works and being frugal when buying groceries, clothes, and the toys and activities.
Another key item is living where housing is affordable. A happy side effect of affordable rural living is that drag queen story hour culture is many hours away, where a small apartment costs more than your house and farmette.

Blogger Avalanche December 10, 2019 9:00 AM  

@76 "
- there must be serious prospects of success;
- the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition."

I disagree completely with your first of these two. DUTY does not look to see if you can win, but merely if it is your burden to act. DUTY does not weigh the odds, but acts in accordance with truth, beauty, and good. Is it cowardice or merely lack of imagination that suggests we surrender without fight, if it looks like maybe we can't win? WHO (mis-)taught you that?

And your second is based on propaganda intended to further our destruction. WHAT "evils and disorders" do you hold in higher regard than the "(((evils and disorders)))" being held up to eviscerate our desire and willingness to fight to protect OUR people, our nation, our future? Do you mean the "evils and disorders" that are racism and anti-semitism and porn/free sex and lawfare and welfare for parasites and hordes and swarms of immvaders? What "graver" evils and disorders do you fear that could result from OUR people taking back OUR nations? How did you come to believe that, e.g., the forcible removal of the violent and vicious parasites is NOT our duty?! And IS. NOT. EVIL.

Blogger Zach December 10, 2019 9:02 AM  

A word to you young men out there:

You cannot comprehend how fatherhood changes your life.

It is literally a "mystery", that is, something that you can learn about but will not be able to see until you are initiated into it.

So: be courageous! Yes, there are dangers. Yes, the possibility of failure is real.

Do it anyway. The joys are real too.

Blogger dc.sunsets December 10, 2019 9:27 AM  

Fear? No, what we see is an acute distaste for LIFE itself. What is a society steeping in the sacrament of abortion but a collective that worships and adores nihilism and death?

As a father I reveled in my kids. They existed in a home that celebrated life (theirs, ours) every moment of the day. As they entered their teen years I begged them to be thoughtful about a young woman offering her body to them for "free." I stated (yes, stated) that I'd pay Big Bucks to avoid having a grandchild aborted, so please, please, please don't create one with some bat-guano crazy. The assumed continuity of our family predated my kids' adulthood by years and years.

Life. It's all about seeing LIFE ITSELF as the ultimate value, that children are the single greatest contribution to life we can make, accepting that our kids will be who they will be (and not somehow clones of our narcissistic selves.) All of my kids have kids. If they're even aware of the current popularity of anti-life, I can't say. Surely they're ignoring it. My grandchildren, too, will have kids. Ours is a family navigating life from our own map, one that sees the collective map as self-destructive and insane.

Sadly, few people navigate life from of a map of their own making.

PS: Rich celebrities already have insane first birth ages without this fantasy scenario. Egg donors, you moron. Every "celebrity" on Earth is nuttier than a squirrel turd. Learn to laugh at everything you read in the supermarket checkout aisle.

PPS: for those who cannot have kids, my sincerest sympathies. No solution exists, for adoption has its own peculiar pitfalls (with which I'm intimately familiar.)

Blogger Bohemond of Antioch December 10, 2019 9:29 AM  

Dave Chappelle has a great quote, ladies I agree its "your body and your choice" and I say when it comes to child support "my money and my choice" or maybe we are both wrong?

Blogger MidnightSun December 10, 2019 9:29 AM  

I work where I come across about many people in the course of a day-100 visiting at their homes and other settings. What I observe is that many women substituted dogs or cats for having child. They seem to border on the psychotic; many are spinsters who constantly have their faces in bandages and take endless photos of themselves to post online. Others are spinsters or activists aimed destroying everything good true and beautiful. Most never smile. The single childless men seem usually to end up alcoholic or drug addicted and just seem to be very lonely. It is sad to see as clearly something is missing and I believe it the immense joy children bring when you choose to have them and let God be your guide.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 10, 2019 9:43 AM  

Avalanche wrote:I disagree completely with your first of these two.'
I'm sure everyone was just waiting to find your take on Christian moral teaching. Augustine says this, Aquinas says that, but what does Avalanche say?

Blogger theartistformerlyknownasgeorge December 10, 2019 10:01 AM  

I had a friend who, in theory, wanted to marry, but had ridiculous standards for women (not to be confused with high standards).

He himself was what many would consider a good catch, but he would always just talk himself out of ever taking things to a serious level with any of the women he knew while we were friends. Wasn't even screwing around or anything, so it wasn't just that.

For a while I would try to reason with him; explain what good women were actually like vs this weird delusion he held.

After a while I realized that I didn't hate any single woman enough to want him to marry her. She would be living with someone who was perpetually disappointed.

That's kind of how I feel about people who don't want children.

Why would we wish them as parents upon anyone?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd December 10, 2019 10:22 AM  

@101, Snidely, her name starts with an A, so she's obviously on the same level as those other two.

Seriously, I'm only interested in what God said. Not much interested in the opinions of others, even if their names start with an A, even if they've been dead a really, really long time. The opinions of my fellow sinners, even if they're great thinkers, are farts in the whirlwind.

Blogger Zaklog the Great December 10, 2019 10:35 AM  

You cannot comprehend how fatherhood changes your life.

I 100% agree. It’s not easy, and it is sometimes frustrating, but it is absolutely worth it.

For that matter, someone wiser and far more eloquent than I agrees as well.

Blogger DeepThought December 10, 2019 10:59 AM  

To those who brag about not having children or at minimum are cheerleaders for those losers who refuse to have children, please refrain from complaining as others take over your nation.

I feel no sympathy for you.

Blogger VD December 10, 2019 11:25 AM  

Why would we wish them as parents upon anyone?

Because civilization depends upon people becoming parents.

Blogger HouellebecqGurl December 10, 2019 12:55 PM  

Like most people, I've made dumb decisions in my life, here or there, some great successes, as well. That said, as I get older, the only thing I'm really proud of is my children and my 8 grandchildren.
As a woman I feel complete knowing I've done my one important duty here on Earth.
The only sadness I feel is that they live so far away.

Blogger Up from the pond December 10, 2019 1:02 PM  

Instead of mopping harder, why not turn off the tap?

Blogger Republican Mother December 10, 2019 1:06 PM  

I have seven children and we live one income. When you compare our standard of living to 100 years ago, we are living in opulence. I do buy everything possible second-hand; and I save clothes by size and season; we also don't do a zillion extra activities.

For a long time, we didn't have a car payment because we always drove a used vehicle. But whoever was responsible for cash for clunkers, I would very much like to see publicly flogged.

These people that wring their hands over the cost of children are so pathetic. I had my first in college and it was no big deal, except for the life lessons and perspective it gave me. I was light years ahead in maturity than my peers, and still am. I remember my history teacher telling us girls (we were an all girls class), "ya'll would be running farms and having babies 100 years ago, so don't tell me this stuff is hard." It's pretty lame if it takes you 40 years to grow up and be a parent.

Blogger lynnjynh9315 December 10, 2019 1:12 PM  

Refusing to have children is bad, but adopting foreign children is worse. They're essentially sowing the seeds of future conflict, all the while totally oblivious to the consequences they're wrecking on future generations.

Blogger Doktor Jeep December 10, 2019 1:17 PM  

Come to think of it. The world is going nuts. America needs to join this fray.

Blogger gooey andruy December 10, 2019 1:40 PM  

Having children means having enough fight in you to stand against this decline. Nothing makes (((them))) happier than seeing potentially good parents bow out without struggle.

Blogger theartistformerlyknownasgeorge December 10, 2019 1:42 PM  

"Because civilization depends upon people becoming parents."

No. Bad parents are a net loss for civilization. They don't raise civilized children.

That's the very issue we're facing now. Not an entire lack of children being raised to live civilized lives, but too few in comparison to those being raised to be barbarians.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 10, 2019 1:53 PM  

"They don't raise civilized children."

Some people's opinions of what constitutes "civilized" are ridiculous.

Regardless, bad children are better than no children.

Blogger RobertDWood December 10, 2019 2:34 PM  

Was it the screen name that rhymes with trolls?

Blogger RobertDWood December 10, 2019 2:36 PM  

And so strongly did he plant his flag of defeat that the Gamma choir burst into applause and the fair maidens did swoon. For they knew that none so fertile would ever be found in all the land.

Blogger Chris Ritchie December 10, 2019 2:38 PM  

Becoming a parent can be civilizing as well. Don't believe the propaganda.

Not trying to slaughter another sacred cow, but marriage would be easier if we weren't all indoctrinated to expect sexual nirvana with "at least an 8." Love grows between committed people. That is the big secret being withheld from the last few generations.

https://www.inc.com/melanie-curtin/the-36-questions-scientists-say-can-make-any-two-people-fall-in-love.html

Blogger SirHamster December 10, 2019 2:57 PM  

@113

smartboi, that wasn't aimed at bad parents.

there are people with the potential to be good parents who are being discouraged and demoralized. they need to hear civilization needs them.

"b-b-but they might end up bad parents"
ok doomer. go hide in your mom's basement and jack off to porn.

Blogger lynnjynh9315 December 10, 2019 3:00 PM  

theartistformerlyknownasgeorge wrote:"Because civilization depends upon people becoming parents."

No. Bad parents are a net loss for civilization. They don't raise civilized children.

That's the very issue we're facing now. Not an entire lack of children being raised to live civilized lives, but too few in comparison to those being raised to be barbarians.


Once upon a time, Hermann and his barbarians fought the Roman legions and nailed their corpses to trees.

Better that than the 'civilized' Germany we see today.

Blogger Rex Cheddar December 10, 2019 4:06 PM  

The government of Finland is now run by 5 female led parties, all but one under age of 35. Any predictions how that will turn out?

Blogger sammibandit December 10, 2019 4:41 PM  

I'm not sure if I've been sufficiently clear that adoption and fostering is best applied within tribes.

For example, In Germanic tribes in past and present adoption was used within a tribe to keep orphaned tribesmen in the tribe or or more specifically to induct men of merit and their offspring into a similar or higher social strata. In my family's case it was a brilliant strategy against the backdrop of WWII forced relocation policies.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella December 10, 2019 5:11 PM  

Why, exactly, are we only supposed to want "good" parents? Why not a shout out to the merely adequate? No one has any idea what Michelangelo's mother was like. Or Da Vinci's. That's usually the usual genius cites. We haven't any clue if their mothers and fathers were anything more than blunt peasants surprised by their hyper-active little art students.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 10, 2019 6:16 PM  

"Any predictions how that will turn out?"

Come hither looks to foreigners who might give them what they really want.

Blogger Uncle Maffoo December 10, 2019 7:42 PM  

Women who reach age 40 or 45 and are unmarried and childless should be either euthanized or forced into a nunnery.

Blogger Fargle Gumpshite December 10, 2019 10:35 PM  

Are we the same person?

Blogger Fargle Gumpshite December 10, 2019 10:48 PM  

There are other kids out there that need the truth and responsible parental figures that are not out to exploit them. Your home does not need to be empty in the holidays and if you look around your church or community, you will find like minded families that will gladly share with you al year round. You must be the one to reach out.

Blogger Fargle Gumpshite December 10, 2019 10:59 PM  

If it is true that a mere 200 wealthy families dictate most of the patterns of our deranged society... perhaps the reconquista needs only a few heroes instead of a vast host.

Blogger Daniel December 11, 2019 6:59 AM  

Best for what? Sucking dick?

Blogger Unknown December 11, 2019 11:19 AM  

Anyone can raise as many children as his body produces nowadays, regardless of financial circumstances.

It is virtually impossible not to be able to support your kids in the US and the west in general. With the safety net as it is -- in order to allow LaQueesha, Pedro, and Ahmad to pay for however many children they have -- even if you are semi-retarded, unlucky, and terrible with money, you can still do it. Worst case scenario, you go full-on gibs and feed your kids with food stamps and take them to the dentist with Medicaid and then get your earned income and child tax credit money at the end of the year. They'll be fine. They will not suffer from lack of guitar lessons and brand name shoes.

If you have a halfway decent job, you don't even need those welfare perks. If you shop at a thrift store, you can buy clothes and shoes for a tenth of what they cost new. You can own a single vehicle with lots of seats. The kids can share rooms and use bunk beds. If your wife stays at home, she will find a thousand ways to save money, including cooking every meal. If you have a little space, you can grow your own food.

Where I live, the average annual household income is $24,000, and there are large families everywhere.

When people say "I cannot afford any more kids," what they mean is "I am not willing to part with my shiny toys to make room for more children" or "My pride in not being a parasite on society by taking welfare is more important to me than continuing my genetic line. I'd rather my redistributed tax money went to non-Americans than went to my own descendants." I understand this thinking, but it has nothing to do with not being able to raise more children.

I know a few people who think like this, and the only thing they dread being called more than a racist is a leech. When they die alone in a swarthy hospital room, they'll be able to say, "At least I wasn't a drain on society!"

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 11, 2019 2:55 PM  

"I know a few people who think like this, and the only thing they dread being called more than a racist is a leech. When they die alone in a swarthy hospital room, they'll be able to say, "At least I wasn't a drain on society!""

This hits home, thanks. I have a nasty independent streak a mile wide that I need to get over.

Blogger sammibandit December 11, 2019 9:51 PM  

When people say "I cannot afford any more kids," what they mean is "I am not willing to part with my shiny toys to make room for more children" or "My pride in not being a parasite on society by taking welfare is more important to me than continuing my genetic line. I'd rather my redistributed tax money went to non-Americans than went to my own descendants." I understand this thinking, but it has nothing to do with not being able to raise more children.

I've heard it's better to make a misstep and ask for forgiveness than to ask for forgiveness first.

I read a listicle the other day of Twatters who reported regretting having children. At least these people showed up to the game and have some insight! I had to think for a while about the message apart from the content since people aren't so good at putting words and introspection together. I figure their complaints relate how they reluctantly grew to enjoy the necessary sacrifices of parenthood but didn't come to it like fish in water.

These people also tended to talk about lower quality of life and less freedom. Okay, so they're materialists or had a bumpy ride. Them and most other people. Maybe they're liars and don't love their kids because how could someone reluctantly weigh babies against nice things as if there's doubt? What I hear is that having a support system and hygge for lack of a better word is ideal. I'll always think more mercifully of parents, of the miscarried as well, than of conscientious objector coomers.

Blogger Jake Burton December 13, 2019 1:20 PM  

People definitely need to have kids.

Flip side is telling whites to have children won't solve the USA's problems unless the people alive now have the will to stand up for their own interests. The birth rate was already well above replacement when the 1968 Immigration Act and all that was passed, and there's 400 million more black and brown people happy to invade. Like being well armed and unwilling to resist a robber. "Armor's no good if there's jelly inside."

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