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Friday, December 06, 2019

The fake billionaires

Many, if not most, of the "super-rich" don't actually have all that much money that is actually theirs, as comes out whenever they are forced to actually disclose what they've got:
Elon Musk says he doesn’t have a lot of cash.

Musk’s wealth came up in the second day of his testimony before a federal jury in Los Angeles where the Tesla Inc. and SpaceX chief executive is on trial over a tweet in which he referred to a British cave expert as a “pedo guy.”

After an unsuccessful objection from his lawyer, Musk told the jury he has Tesla stock, and SpaceX stock, with debt against those holdings, and his net worth is about $20 billion. But contrary to public opinion, he said, he didn’t have much cash. Musk finished testifying after a total of about six hours on the stand over two days.
As Anonymous Conservative points out, those who are in service to the Prometheans are provided fame and fortune, but they are essentially servitors and don't actually control the resources that are nominally made available to them. See: Hunter Biden.

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86 Comments:

Blogger Beardy Bear December 06, 2019 8:08 AM  

It's reminiscent of Epstein going from billionaire to millionaire to not even owning his own house.

Blogger Brick Hardslab December 06, 2019 8:23 AM  

I thought Epstein lived in the big house?

Blogger The Lab Manager December 06, 2019 8:23 AM  

Tesla gets way too much press and is way overrated. I do like the successes of his SpaceX venture, but his Tesla car is a joke that the rest of us are having to subsidize.

Blogger Unknown December 06, 2019 8:23 AM  

Equity is cash. Tesla is able to raise billions by selling stock and the share price does not fall, to give an idea of how much demand there is. Elon can just sell some shares to an investment bank if he needs actual cash. It can be arranged very easily given how liquid the markets are the huge demand for Tesla stock. he can also

Anonymous Anonymous December 06, 2019 8:25 AM  

From my delusion bubble Musk's life looks pretty good regardless of the cash situation brought up in court. He seems to be doing what he loves.

Blogger Shane Bradman December 06, 2019 8:27 AM  

Not surprising at all. Elon Musk has fake wealth from cheating the law with PayPal and scamming the government with SpaceX and investors with Tesla. A lot of rich people have hundreds of millions in debt, then claim that as wealth.

Blogger David Ray Milton December 06, 2019 8:29 AM  

This is a common misconception among my generation who were poorly miseducated about economics (myself included). I think socialist millennials hear about billionaires and think they all have a Scrooge McDuck vault where they can go swimming in cash. Not even close.

However, correct me if I am wrong, but if there is a significant amount of debt attached to Musk’s stock (Yay Usury!), then his “Net Worth” is not $20B, but is actually the liquidity of those stock values minus the unnamed amount of debt.

Slave.

Blogger Wayne December 06, 2019 8:30 AM  

Rock stars often find out too late how much of their lavish lifestyle is owned and provided by the record company, not them.

Blogger Sargent.matrim December 06, 2019 8:31 AM  

It's not a deal worth taking at all. I was talking about this with someone a couple of days ago. Imagine the fear these "billionaires" live in as they get older, know where they are going when they die, and they realize that they have dedicated their whole life to gathering things they can't take with them.

Their last days must be hell on earth.

It's not worth it at all.

Blogger David Ray Milton December 06, 2019 8:33 AM  

Furthermore, aren’t Tesla and SpaceX only able to function due to massive federal subsidies? If those subsidies were to be removed by some masters who were disappointed in little slave boy Elon, wouldn’t his wealth go to Jack shit as his ventures would be unsustainable? That sounds like an awful life.

Blogger Stilicho December 06, 2019 8:34 AM  

Wait, an insider, a "made man", a cabal operative like Musk actually referred to someone as a "pedo guy"... times they are a changin'. Of course, I have to wonder if it was an attempt to get ahead of the coming anti-pedophile/anti-lgbtqpf backlash, an attempt to defame a non-cabal individual, or both.

Blogger Bernard Korzeniewicz December 06, 2019 8:35 AM  

When John Pierpont Morgan died he turned out to own only 17% of his money. The rest was owned by an English bank.

Blogger VD December 06, 2019 8:39 AM  

to give an idea of how much demand there is

The demand isn't real. It's all propped up.

Blogger Sillon December 06, 2019 8:45 AM  

I have been calling this phenomena: "(((Imaginary millions)))"

Blogger Shane Bradman December 06, 2019 8:50 AM  

Using stock prices as an indicator for demand is wrong. Who puts money on the stock market? It's not normal people like you and I. Stock prices are literally useless as an indicator for anything. Companies themselves don't give a shit about their stock price.

Blogger Cataline Sergius December 06, 2019 8:54 AM  

It also demonstrates that Twitter is nothing but a source of highspeed life f#*kage.

If you can't pay someone else to run your Twitter account then don't go near it, unless you're Donald Trump

Blogger John Best. December 06, 2019 9:04 AM  

Someone my friend knows went from being worth 40 billion to 200 million. Shows me that Satanist system is starting to rupture. With foreign nations moving in to replace them. The Eastern Europeans seem to be the ones making moves.

Blogger Brett baker December 06, 2019 9:07 AM  

How did PayPal cheat the law?

Blogger Timeo hominem unius libri December 06, 2019 9:12 AM  

When you are owned, you don't own your thoughts,in the least your wealth. What a price has to be paid for slavery

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling December 06, 2019 9:15 AM  

@10. David Ray Milton:

"Furthermore, aren’t Tesla and SpaceX only able to function due to massive federal subsidies?"

Tesla is, but SpaceX has real customers, which of course include the Federal government. Which has been quite willing to "subsidize" SpaceX and other companies so it doesn't have to pay the Russians to get cargo, and soon passengers to and from the International Space Station. Look at their launches: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Falcon_9_and_Falcon_Heavy_launches plenty of strictly commercial, or other government payloads, low prices plus good reliability makes them a pretty easy choice for a lot of customers. Even its possibly more reliable United Launch Alliance competition is going to climb the reliability ladder again when they start flying their Vulcan replacement for the Delta IV and Atlas V boosters.

Blogger MidnightSun December 06, 2019 9:15 AM  

It's all a money laundering operation used to peddle influence and destroy nations.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 06, 2019 9:21 AM  

Prometheans huh. Fitting. "Here's the power from heaven baby, hope you like burning away."

"then his “Net Worth” is not $20B, but is actually the liquidity of those stock values minus the unnamed amount of debt.

Slave."


Yes.

This will of course be used in their defense when the pedal hits their metal. At some point anyone will be eradicated who can't realize that while slaves aren't entirely at fault for their condition, they do share culpability.

"I live in the world as I permit it to exist. If it were not so, either the world would not be as it is or I would no longer live."

If we're serious, slaves of enemies are still enemy targets. Gold-attired eunuchs are just bigger targets.

"Furthermore, aren’t Tesla and SpaceX only able to function due to massive federal subsidies?"

Yes. Amazon is the same.

"Wait, an insider, a "made man", a cabal operative like Musk actually referred to someone as a "pedo guy""

That you're in the house doesn't necessarily mean you're in or approve of the pedo wing of the house. Or even know that it's part of the house. That's the thing about occult Powers, most of the people invested with them would want out immediately if they knew everything that was going on. Some would even take a torch to it themselves.

Blogger Boothe December 06, 2019 9:29 AM  

Years ago I was acquainted with and did a far bit of work for a "billionaire". He taught me a lot about how a "New York businessman" does business. I'm a bit too scrupulous to operate the way he did, but I learned one very important thing: The ultra-wealthy (typically) are not personally wealthy at all. This is by design. One day he explained to me how he had his family finances arranged through trusts, corporations, foundations and the like. I was in my mid-twenties and not poor by any means, but hardly "wealthy". He flatly stated "You have more money in your wallet, than I have to my name. On paper, I am a pauper." This goes back to Rockefeller's admonition to "Own nothing, but control everything." The basic premise being 'that which you do not own, cannot be taken from you'.

Blogger Beardy Bear December 06, 2019 9:37 AM  

@4 This is not true. Industry practices create black out lists, which means he can only buy and sell company stock at "random" times governed usually by the CFO.

Blogger Jeff aka Orville December 06, 2019 9:39 AM  

He's done great things with SpaceX, but I think his days are numbered.

He's a coke fiend, and a CDAN post said that he was using Tesla to trade metal for nose candy, and probably also part of a money laundering scheme.

Should he lose the "pedo" slander case, he may have more people coming after him.

Blogger Balkan Yankee December 06, 2019 9:51 AM  

In other words, Musk could declare bankruptcy if the decision goes against him.

Blogger Aeroschmidt December 06, 2019 10:04 AM  

"Doesn't have a lot of cash" is normal. Nobody gets rich sitting on cash with .5% interest.

Blogger Jez December 06, 2019 10:15 AM  

How did Spacex scam the government?

Blogger Fuzzums Wuzzums December 06, 2019 10:17 AM  

Twitter was valued at some point at 4 billion $. Twitter hasn't made a dime because Jack has no idea how to convert its worth to cash. The whole operation is financed by Saudi money.

I don't trust anything the MSM so this whole "worth X billions" I always assumed was just marketing. Jeff Bezos of course ruined the whole lie by declaring he's worth trillions. It's too much like a child's game of one-upmanship. Now the next guy that comes along will have to be worth a billion trillion dollars or else people will assume he's just smalltime.

Blogger Tars Tarkas December 06, 2019 10:24 AM  

Why would anyone have a lot of cash and why would they keep that money in an insolvent bank? It seems more like a misdirection to me.
Of course, with a car company that hasn't made any money, the valuation is probably unwarranted. Blowing up your space vehicles probably isn't great for even gov work.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 06, 2019 10:47 AM  

"Why would anyone have a lot of cash and why would they keep that money in an insolvent bank?"

Emergency pads like any clever person should have.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction December 06, 2019 10:47 AM  

Net worth is whatever have after factoring in debt obligations. So the 20 billion is after factoring his debts.

The crux here is that the majority of his wealth is based on the expected price his company would sell for eager than cash or easily convertible or valuable assets.

His company could be worth a trillion dollars tomorrow or could it Could be worth nothing

Blogger xevious2030 December 06, 2019 10:47 AM  

Yep, the illusion of a net worth. If negative talking points were sent out to the media, to take away his ticket (stock value), he'd be left only with his pile of debt. No more contracts. A few more talking points, and you could add on years of legal battles/bills/jail. Throw in the six letter R word, and he becomes a social pariah as well. Fake dossier about pee pee and Russian hookers. It is a sick, sick system.

Blogger Fuzzums Wuzzums December 06, 2019 10:50 AM  

Tars Tarkas wrote:with a car company that hasn't made any money

It made almost minus 1 billion $.

Blogger kurt9 December 06, 2019 10:51 AM  

All of these guy's wealth is tied up in the stock options of their companies. The problem with a lot of these "businesses" is that most of them are not profitable. Google, Microsoft, Apple, and Facebook are profitable. However, all of the recent "unicorns" (an apt name since unicorns really do not exist) familiar to us are not profitable and will likely go away in the next few years (I think WeWork is busting this dam wide open).

Remember, you can't count the money until you have it in real money.

Blogger Avalanche December 06, 2019 10:51 AM  

@ I thought Epstein lived in the big house?

No, he died in the big house!

Blogger jmg December 06, 2019 10:55 AM  

maybe elroy musk is without cash but plenty of plastic and plenty of credit and plenty of free gifts and services. I doubt if he pays for his own weed.

Blogger Fuzzums Wuzzums December 06, 2019 10:59 AM  

Jez wrote:How did Spacex scam the government?

He didn't. The way these scams work is by selling it to the public. The people in the government don't care if it's a scam or not, they only care if the public will complain when they allocate a large sum of tax money to whatever project. The politicians always find a way to skim from the top of the pile of money. If the project is a success then they make more money, if the project fails they already got paid. It's a win-win for them.

Blogger Dire Badger December 06, 2019 10:59 AM  

And that is why the whole leftist mantra of 'tax the rich' really means 'tax the middle class'. The truly rich pay nothing in taxes, and are virtually untaxable.

Blogger 351wsl December 06, 2019 11:04 AM  

@15
"Companies themselves don't give a shit about their stock price."

You're wrong. That's pretty much all that public companies care about anymore. They're managed quarter by quarter for earnings / stock price. Very few long term, strategic decisions can be made, if they affect quarterly earnings and the stock price.

Blogger Noah B. December 06, 2019 11:30 AM  

This, of course, is just one of the problems with a wealth tax. The bulk billionaires' wealth is purely hypothetical and would be greatly diminished if they were forced to liquidate equities, bonds, intellectual property rights, and real estate holdings. There are bubbles everywhere and most of the economy is fake now.

Blogger Damelon Brinn December 06, 2019 11:31 AM  

Wait, an insider, a "made man", a cabal operative like Musk

Musk isn't inner circle. He's not of the tribe, and as a nerd who has created some things, he's in the wrong class. He could be allowed into one of the lesser circles so that they could use him (much like they hoped to do with Trump), but he wouldn't get invited to the highest rites. So he might go off-script sometimes without realizing it, or get frustrated that he's still second-class and spout off about things no one's supposed to talk about.

Blogger Scuzzaman December 06, 2019 11:36 AM  

I thought Epstein lived in the big house?

Epstein DIED in the big house, too.

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling December 06, 2019 11:42 AM  

29. Fuzzums Wuzzums

"Twitter was valued at some point at 4 billion $. Twitter hasn't made a dime because Jack has no idea how to convert its worth to cash...."

Old news, he wasn't able to control spending quickly but the company had serious revenue, and their financials are under control as of FY2018. Revenue $3 billion, operating income $453 million, net income $1.2 billion, perhaps so high after repatriating foreign cash thanks to the GOP/Trump tax bill.

@30 Tars Tarkas:

"Why would anyone have a lot of cash and why would they keep that money in an insolvent bank? It seems more like a misdirection to me."

SpaceX will continue to earn serious money as long as enough of the US continues to hang together, and countries and corporations need and are able to put satellites in orbit. It's also building a separate income stream with its Starlink LEO Internet, this time it might work thanks to how much the company has cut the costs of launches. Its the first ever to focus on that and succeed, that gives it a good chance with Starlink.

"Of course, with a car company that hasn't made any money, the valuation is probably unwarranted...."

He's buying indulgences with Tesla, although there's been some cross fertilization between it and SpaceX, like with embedded computers. That's less valuable with Trump in the Oval Office, but for now it still buys him something, the environmentalist death cult is still going strong.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( no need to be racist, Ratchets can Karen better than anybody ) December 06, 2019 11:46 AM  

6. Shane Bradman December 06, 2019 8:27 AM
A lot of rich people have hundreds of millions in debt, then claim that as wealth.


the US is the 'richest' nation on the planet.

yet our entire FedRes monetary system is based on substituting debt/credit for wealth.

Blogger Damelon Brinn December 06, 2019 11:47 AM  

The ultra-wealthy (typically) are not personally wealthy at all. This is by design.

I learned that 30 years ago from an episode of Cheers. Sam makes a bet with a millionaire, the stakes being one week of pay, so Sam thinks if he wins it'll be a huge haul. He cheats and wins, so the guy hands him a penny, saying that his corporation pays him $1/year so after taxes that's 1 cent/week.

The millionaire was loosely based on Donald Trump, of course. It's kind of amazing how long they've been fascinated by him and yet taking shots at him.

Blogger YIH December 06, 2019 12:03 PM  

@8. Wayne
Rock stars often find out too late how much of their lavish lifestyle is owned and provided by the record company, not them.
Making money off recorded music sales died out 20 years ago. Live tours is 99% of their income now.

Blogger xevious2030 December 06, 2019 12:21 PM  

“saying that his corporation pays him $1/year so after taxes that's 1 cent/week.”

Looked up a multimillion luxury residential style property here in town a while back. Very little tax value, owned by a foundation that had very little income, run out of a likely place in Florida by a likely family. And a marketplace/taxes for everybody else.

Blogger Jez December 06, 2019 12:22 PM  

Fuzzums Wuzzums

But where is the scam? As a launch provider, Spacex has received far less in government subsidies than its major competition (ULA, etc.), and has developed a significantly lower-cost service with high reliability.

???

Blogger Joe December 06, 2019 12:22 PM  

Any business built upon pseudo-science will fail as it is ordered against reality.
All renewable energy/green energy projects are pseudo-scientific
They are thus doomed to failure
Why then do they exist?
Money laundering/fraud

Blogger HouellebecqGurl December 06, 2019 12:23 PM  

Can we talk about Cave Guy? Because I think that Welfare Whore Musk might accidentally be right. Cave Guy has a much, much younger spouse who is Thai.
This always screams Sex Tourist, to me & anyone who knows about sex tourism in Thailand will tell you, finding young women there who've barely hit puberty is the norm.
Something to think about, IMO.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction December 06, 2019 12:27 PM  

As others note his well is hypothetical based on if he sold his stake hat day. The catch there is that it is impossible for him to sell that much stock in a single go quickly or even potentially at all due to a variety of reasons ranging from the pool of available buyers to the by laws of company.

However what he can do is take loans against said wealth for either business or personal reasons. It’s not uncommon given what I have been told by individuals who are either extremely wealthy or who work closely with the extremely wealthy.

Doing allows you to benefit from the wealth without actually never liquifying the asset. I never thought much more since it seemed a “rich people strategy”

I never considered that perhaps that is how the powers of be elevate and subsequently control people since those assets could devalue or disappear but the debt obligation doesn’t go away.

Blogger dc.sunsets December 06, 2019 12:41 PM  

What's The Widget Corp's market cap?
It has 1 billion shares outstanding, current price $100/share, spread among 1 million shareholders.

Two guys, Able (who owns a share) and Butch, who wants to own a share, trade. But Able really, really wants to sell and Butch is the only guy waving money, and he's waving a ten dollar bill.

They trade. Widget's market cap just fell by 90%. 999,999 shareholders didn't do anything. They could have been in a coma, for all they mattered.

Explain to me again what is wealth? Please attempt to do so without resorting to the vapor of mass psychology...make my day.

When this era ends (and it will, as all eras do), someone is going to have to add an entire section (multiple chapters) to Charles Mackay's 1841 book, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds.

Never in recorded history has a mass manic delusion this scale existed.

Blogger Nate December 06, 2019 12:44 PM  

I used to think the tesla vehicles were a joke. maybe 3 years ago they were. They are no longer a joke in anyway shape or form. over 500 miles per charge... full charge in 25 minutes. over 10k super chargers in the US... and tons more coming online in 2020.

tesla is legit. But the important thing here is to seperate Tesla from the rest of the electric vehicle market. They are not one in the same. I would never buy an electric vehicle.

Unless it said Tesla on it.

Blogger Chris DeBoe December 06, 2019 1:00 PM  

Meh. You don't keep cash, other than immediate operating expenses plus an emergency cushion, because you don't make money from cash.

Blogger Brett baker December 06, 2019 1:14 PM  

Nowadays the music company owns the touring income as well.

Blogger Gen. Kong December 06, 2019 1:17 PM  

Sillon wrote:

I have been calling this phenomena: "(((Imaginary millions)))"

I like (((healing manna))) myself, but (((Imaginary millions))) is quite good. It's what greatly enables nice folks like Llord Bankstein to go about doing their 'God's' work (of stealing, bloodsucking, killing and destroying).

When this era ends (and it will, as all eras do), someone is going to have to add an entire section (multiple chapters) to Charles Mackay's 1841 book, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds.

Never in recorded history has a mass manic delusion this scale existed.

Amen. Tulipmania was nothing compared to Clown World.

Blogger xevious2030 December 06, 2019 1:32 PM  

"They are no longer a joke"

Overcoming the cold battery issue was a biggie. And the low price of the truck, comparatively. Change.

Blogger Nate December 06, 2019 1:47 PM  

over 50k orders have been placed for the Cybertruck already.

Think about that.

Blogger Kirk Parker December 06, 2019 2:05 PM  

Hey, that's my line: "Scrooge McDuck economics". turns out I have written it so often, that the predictive dictionary on my phone displays the rest of the phrase in sequence if I type in "Scrooge".

Blogger Kirk Parker December 06, 2019 2:08 PM  

The idea that "the poor are poor because the rich are hoarding money that the poor could otherwise use" is so preposterous, but so prevalent... I am constantly amazed by the otherwise intelligent people who believe this.

Blogger 351wsl December 06, 2019 2:57 PM  

@60
"over 50k orders have been placed for the Cybertruck already"

Nobody can deny the guy can sell stuff.
Elon has been saying over 150k orders.

Whatever the number, I think of it in these terms:
those people bought a $100 refundable ticket to buy a truck they may get produced in 2021.

The real question that hasn't been answered yet, is can Tesla sell stuff at a profit. I follow their earnings, and so far, every quarter they've turned a profit has been because of pushed out AP, selling of carbon credits, and revenue recognition games.

The cars show promise, and they've certainly moved the ball forward for EV's, but I'm not convinced they can do it profitably yet.

Blogger Wormwood December 06, 2019 3:09 PM  

Cash is subject to losses due to inflation, so why would you have vast reserves of cash, unless you were expecting some type of economic collapse.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction December 06, 2019 3:20 PM  

@54

Tesla cars certainly appear to have gained popularity in my neck of the woods. A few years ago I only ever saw them in the show room or in the empty lot near my work. Now I do actually see them in the wild.

That cybertruck...fuuuuuggly.

Blogger Newscaper312 December 06, 2019 3:36 PM  

Yes, Tesla and Solar City are mining govt subsidies, but they already existed. The subsidies are BS, and I would prefer a more organic business model, but it is not quite a "scam"... at least not like fraudulent Medicare claims.
I think the longer term hope is that the tech and economies of scale improve in the meantime to point of being sustainable once subsidies decline or stop. I wouldn't take that gamble.
OTOH SpaceX is not vapor in any way, provides services govts and Corp's actually need. Just because a chunk of income is from govt does not make it a subsidy. Don't forget SpaceX is a helluva lot cheaper than Boeing et al, and unlike NASA actually flies.

Blogger Noah B. December 06, 2019 3:43 PM  

You can buy three Toyota Corollas for the price of a Tesla Model S. Gasoline is available anywhere and you can refill the tank in 5 minutes instead of 25. Plus the range of a Tesla is strongly temperature dependent and is nowhere near 500 miles when temperatures are freezing or below.

Teslas are toys for people with more money than they know what to do with.

Blogger bodenlose Schweinerei December 06, 2019 3:44 PM  

The "rich" to leftists, even well-off ones, are "anyone with more money than me". It's purely Not My Shit Socialism, from each according to their ability to pay, and to each at least as much as their neighbor has.


The current stock "market" is not an indicator of economic health, it's a manipulated mess artificially elevated by an endless supply of free money. Much like the myth of "China could bankrupt us by selling all their Treasuries", if everybody made a run for the door, there aren't any buyers able to absorb the outflow at the current inflated prices. The Dow would nosedive faster than a Cincinnati Bengals season.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 06, 2019 3:51 PM  

"The idea that "the poor are poor because the rich are hoarding money that the poor could otherwise use" is so preposterous, but so prevalent... I am constantly amazed by the otherwise intelligent people who believe this."

Some of the poor and some of the rich are.

People high enough up the ladder know our money is nothing more than a manipulation scheme of equal parts deceit and faith. Why would they need money on hand when they can freely conjure it or are in bed with a conjurer who will perform tricks to keep them quiet so his scam can keep rolling? They'd be more interested in compromat that the general populace would be very energized to hear about, or in friends in lever pulling places.

Some of the poor are poor exactly because they've been destroyed by the financial conjury of their "betters".

Blogger Lance E December 06, 2019 4:11 PM  

Does this say that much about Musk, or the delusion of left-wingers that supposedly rich people are going to pay for all their goodies?

If you own a company that is worth $10 million, by virtue of having stock valued at that price, it does not mean you have $10 million in cash, or could even raise that much, because if you tried to sell it all, the value would plummet, not to mention that it is illegal for an executive to liquidate shares a publicly-traded company.

Musk does his share of crony capitalism, sure, but this is true of essentially all billionaires and multimillionaires, their companies are worth far more than they are. It's why "the rich" will never pay their "fair share", because they aren't nearly that rich, the media just uncritically reports their "net worth" as if it's all liquid assets.

You could own a company that's literally trading on pink sheets, have barely enough cash to pay for your next meal, and some conglomerate puts out an offer to "buy" your company, and suddenly you are "worth" millions, but you don't have any more money than you had yesterday. And the megaphone loves to use this little trick to stir up envy and rage. Even people who win the lottery usually can't access most of the money for years and years, unless they opt for a lump sum that is a fraction of the supposed payout and then pay obscene taxes on it.

Blogger Scuzzaman December 06, 2019 4:49 PM  

Possibly two things getting confused in some minds here.
When I was at high school I worked for a farmer during the holidays. The farm, the family business, fully protected with the kids shares held in various trusts to avoid gift taxes as he and his wife handed it to them piecemeal, and estate taxes when he died, had several million in assets. he and his wife also owned a car each, a yacht, and some other toys.

But his taxable income was a paltry 27K a year.

He paid his accountant a significant proportion of that same sum to ensure that this was the case. That wasn't debt slavery; it was prudent tax avoidance so as to maximise his and his wife's legacy to their children.

That might look the same as a billionaire who owns nothing because his whole fortune is a house of debt cards and marginal stock valuations, but it's not the same.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 06, 2019 4:59 PM  

Fuzzums Wuzzums wrote:Twitter hasn't made a dime because Jack has no idea how to convert its worth to cash. The whole operation is financed by Saudi money.
You misspelled CIA

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 06, 2019 5:04 PM  

If Musk were to start selling his stock, the price would crater within hours. Equity is not money and has no fixed value.

Blogger Damelon Brinn December 06, 2019 5:10 PM  

Gasoline is available anywhere and you can refill the tank in 5 minutes instead of 25.

Gasoline is such a common thing that we take for granted how much energy is bound up in it, the convenience of a liquid fuel, and the level of safety and efficiency that comes from over a century of experience with internal combustion engines.

Blogger Ransom Smith December 06, 2019 5:32 PM  

Tesla cars certainly appear to have gained popularity in my neck of the woods.
It's all fun and games until you see the bill for replacement batteries.

Blogger Kirk Parker December 06, 2019 5:35 PM  

Regarding your last paragraph: certainly, and I wasn't trying to say otherwise.

I am objecting to the "vaults filled with bags of money" concept, among other things.

Remember the luxury tax, characterized as the "millionaire's yacht tax" sometime back in the 90s? I do, because at the time I work for a software company that specialized in marine dealers and boat yards. A lot of companies went out of business, with a lot of skilled blue collar jobs disappearing, as a result of that nonsense.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 06, 2019 6:25 PM  

Oh I agree. Realistically the people you want to hit with "tax the rich" can't be hit by it because they operate internationally. Other than setting up a throne over the whole Earth and ruling from it, this is the major draw of Globalism. Mom and Popping between different countries.

The people that would get hit by a lot of the "tax the rich" taxes are the comparatively benign people running a lot of the large local employers.

Blogger SciVo December 06, 2019 7:12 PM  

I actually met a guy yesterday who called himself a Promethean. Right after Vox explained to me what it meant! But I still never would've guessed it to be a self-description.

Blogger Joe December 06, 2019 7:13 PM  

"Many, if not most, of the "super-rich" don't actually have all that much money that is actually theirs, as comes out whenever they are forced to actually disclose what they've got:"

Many celebrities are included in this group. They owe their lifestyles to being obedient. It's very easy for them to lose it all, and most normies will just assume that they wasted it.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf December 06, 2019 7:42 PM  

Whenever I read these insights into Wealth I always think about how I'm doing it wrong (save and invest). I don't know? I wish I could see how things played out without the bailout.

Blogger RedJack December 06, 2019 10:56 PM  

A lot of farmers are land rich, but cash poor.

Works great, till it doesn't.

Same with many rich. Just like being in political power, the game can stop if you anger enough people. Musk may find that out.

Blogger Tom d December 06, 2019 11:43 PM  

I've always found it interesting to who actually killed the electric car, and how the "Subsidy King" just happened to came along and raise it from the dead. Perhaps it's more than a coincidence that when coal was the electricity king, the EV1 was crushed and stacked out back in the 90s and when the natural gas plant building spree was in full swing in the 00s, Musk's is somehow able to make EV's "cool" again. Perhaps equally interesting is Tesla's pumping of the natural gas friendly solar narrative, while dumping on CA's last remaining nuclear plant in public comments.

Blogger James December 07, 2019 12:48 AM  

The Elon Musk hero worship phenomena is Gamma to the core. Elon Musk is nothing more than a character created by The Powers That Shouldnt Be. Space is fake, making SpaceX also fake. I will give you Newtonian/ Cavendish/Rev John Mitchell gravity, mass attracts mass and also give you Einsteinian "bending of space/time " gravity, you may have them both. How does a gas pressure, Earths atmosphere exist next to the 10-17torr vacuum of space. It defies the Second Law of Thermodynamics. The gas would fill the available space. You've all been lied to, the Emperor has no clothes, all institutions are corrupt. The atmosphere of earth is not a cohesive unit that as a whole has weight, it is a mixture of free flowing gas particles that move in all directions and would fill the available space.

Blogger SciVo December 07, 2019 2:27 AM  

@82 James: How do you not fall into space? The atmosphere is held down the same way.

Blogger Tars Tarkas December 07, 2019 11:48 AM  

Nate wrote:They are no longer a joke in anyway shape or form. over 500 miles per charge... full charge in 25 minutes. over 10k super chargers in the US... and tons more coming online in 2020.



I'm pretty sure they cannot be fully charged in 25 minutes.

In my neck of the woods, most people cannot drive electric cars because there is no where to charge them. I saw a video where they are adding charge stations to existing street lights (London, UK), but that can only serve one person and you cannot reserve the spot. Without reserved parking or your own garage, an EV is just out of the question.
Also, you can't supercharge the Tesla very often.

Ransom Smith wrote:Tesla cars certainly appear to have gained popularity in my neck of the woods.

It's all fun and games until you see the bill for replacement batteries.


The batteries are vastly over-engineered. Real world data is showing them over 90% charge capacity after 200k miles.

The TOC is very low compared to gas or diesel. However, I think that is going to go through the roof if EVs become more widespread. With EVs such a low % of the auto market, powering them isn't a problem. The cost of upgrading the grid to power all these cars, especially if that entails "renewable" sources, is going to be enormous. The cost of charging them is going to become more realistic.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 07, 2019 4:46 PM  

@James, control your monomania. Not only are you wrong, worse, you're off topic.

Blogger James December 07, 2019 5:05 PM  

Gotcha Snidely, i tend to get monomaniacal when the all encompassing lie that hides the Creator and has misled billions of people while also stealing trillions of dollars from those same people, Elon Musk among the thieves, comes to the forefront.

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