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Tuesday, December 10, 2019

What's good for the citizen is good for the corporation

U.S. corporations are sounding the alarm about the fact that China intends to treat them precisely the way they are treating their employees and customers:
The social credit system is a vast database that monitors Chinese citizens for “good behavior” and aggressively punishes those who fall short. Anything from poor spending habits to ideological impurity can produce a low social credit score, with consequences that might include the unfortunate citizen suddenly discovering he is no longer allowed to board airplanes or trains.

The social credit system has a business component as well, monitoring corporate behavior in much the same way it keeps tabs on individual citizens. Companies with poor social credit scores can face heavier regulatory scrutiny, higher taxes, reduced access to business loans, or an outright ban on doing business in China.

Bloomberg News provided the example of China Railway Construction Corporation, a company that covered up some fatalities on a railroad project in Mongolia, got caught, and was banned from doing business for a year as well as being “subject to more inspections, limits on bidding for public projects and restrictions on issuing bonds and shares.” And those were only the immediate consequences – there is no telling how long the demerits fed into the social credit system will haunt the company and its managers across every province of China.

“The system will be widely used in China to oversee domestic and foreign companies, and firms have to assign resources to keep a real eye on making sure their records are clean,” noted Andrew Polk of the Trivium China consulting firm.

Trivium is currently charging corporate clients $2,500 an hour to consult on the social credit system and $50,000 for a complete audit. Bloomberg News suggested other U.S. and European firms are offering similar services.

Other expert observers pointed out that the rules governing the social credit system are notoriously vague and clearly subject to political tweaking from Beijing, making it quite easy for the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) to punish or blackball foreign corporations unless the foreigners bend over backwards to maintain good relations with CCP officials.

The Chinese government is not shy about warning that American companies could be blacklisted as part of the trade war, or in retaliation for U.S. criticism of Chinese policies such as the internment of Uyghur Muslims in concentration camps. Publishing the CCP’s thus-far secretive blacklist, as Chinese state media has threatened to do, could cause big problems for American firms in other countries, and would almost certainly produce immediate black marks in the social credit system for every listed entity.
Wait, didn't the Chinese understand that their people were supposed to be the slaves of the corporations and not their masters? Once again, we see that even communism is better for a nation than globalist corpocracy.

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57 Comments:

Blogger Alexander December 10, 2019 3:17 PM  

Are we unironically supposed to feel bad that a company that hid worker deaths is then punished?

Our overlords are evil, but they are also retarded.

Blogger Jeffrey Johnson December 10, 2019 3:21 PM  

I'm not going to lie. I kind of like that the Chicoms are going to use their social credit system to help keep their big corporations under control.

Blogger Kraemer December 10, 2019 3:24 PM  

In before the first lolbertarian argues that covering up the deaths of workers is legitimate business practice

Blogger James Dixon December 10, 2019 3:31 PM  

> U.S. corporations are sounding the alarm about the fact that China intends to treat them precisely the way they are treating their employees and customers:

There's a simple solution to this problem: Don't do business in China.

Blogger Balkan Yankee December 10, 2019 3:42 PM  

CCP uber alles.

Blogger Brett baker December 10, 2019 3:44 PM  

But, but, over a billion customers! Muh big market!

Blogger Dan in Georgia December 10, 2019 3:50 PM  

Bloomberg News provided the example of China Railway Construction Corporation, a company that covered up some fatalities on a railroad project in Mongolia, got caught, and was banned from doing business for a year as well as being “subject to more inspections, limits on bidding for public projects and restrictions on issuing bonds and shares.” And those were only the immediate consequences – there is no telling how long the demerits fed into the social credit system will haunt the company and its managers across every province of China.

So...the corporation killed it's employees through neglect and went to jail for it? And Bloomberg treats this like a bad thing? In China, corporations really are treated like people. Sounds like a feature, not a bug.

Blogger Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi December 10, 2019 3:56 PM  

I'm all for holding corporations to proper standards. The irony being that the Chinese government will hold corporations to standards that they do not hold themselves to.

You know Uyghurs just get rounded up into work camps and the women get sterilized. On top of it, they too might become volunteered to become organ donors.

Blogger Stilicho December 10, 2019 4:06 PM  

May the Chicoms excommunicate every US company that has a factory their or buys their goods. The Clintons' walmart stock will take a hit, but omelets/eggs, etc.

The chicoms just don't want to be enlightened by the prometheans. Go figure.

Kudos to Vox, by the way for using "Promethean" because they will probably adopt it for themselves where they would have avoided the synonymous "Luciferian". Prometheus didn't get half of what he deserved.

Blogger p_q December 10, 2019 4:11 PM  

All test runs for being forbidden to purchase unless you wear the number of the beast. But at least when devils are fighting people can get some peace.

Blogger Doktor Jeep December 10, 2019 4:18 PM  

Here we have "of you don't like the business then don't give them your money". That's been the libertardian approach.
And every American not giving them money has 10 mindless Hispanics behind him giving money for the same product.

Blogger Br1cht December 10, 2019 4:31 PM  

I think that a Hoodie with the text "Always Listen to the Supreme Dark Lord" would be in order now, alternative a poster to hang in the office for those that are severely inbred to remember the whole day.

Blogger Statix December 10, 2019 4:32 PM  

The fact that greedy, profit-obsessed US corporations are bending over backwards to appease the Communist Chinese, really shows how they are truly the Enemy of the American People.

Blogger Statix December 10, 2019 4:34 PM  

B-b-but that would go against the free-m-m-market globalist order

Blogger qualitycontrol December 10, 2019 5:05 PM  

@7. Dan in Georgia
That's what i thought.

As it is now, the Chinese social credit system is vastly preferable to the western version. I hope they don't allow their own SJWs to corrupt it.

Blogger IAMSpartacus0000 December 10, 2019 5:07 PM  

Ah the difference of power vs influence.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( according to the 13th Amendment, Slavery is neither Cruel nor Unusual: MSAGA ) December 10, 2019 5:13 PM  

VD
U.S. corporations are sounding the alarm about the fact that China intends to treat them precisely the way they are treating their employees and customers:

4. James Dixon December 10, 2019 3:31 PM
There's a simple solution to this problem: Don't do business in China.




There's a simple solution to this problem: Don't do business with US corporations.

Blogger Noah B. December 10, 2019 5:14 PM  

If a business' choice is between doing business China, where people and businesses are punished for their misdeeds, or California, where theft and vagrancy are now considered basic human rights, the decision should be easy.

Blogger Nathan Hornok December 10, 2019 5:46 PM  

I heard the Chinese social credit system is so powerful that it can force a CEO of a major corporation to get fired for saying "hoodlidaddle" instead of "the H-word" during a conference call. Scary stuff going on in China these days.

Blogger bodenlose Schweinerei December 10, 2019 5:52 PM  

Other expert observers pointed out that the rules governing the social credit system are notoriously vague

Unlike rules and regulations here in the USA USA!, which are quite clear but simply ignored when corporations violate them. Those too big to jail get really cheesed off when they're not the ones defining the loopholes and "penumbras".

Blogger Newscaper312 December 10, 2019 5:53 PM  

As bad as it is, barrign politicized aspects, the de jure Chinese social credit system will almost certainly be more functional for society than the de facto one SJWs would like to impose here.

Blogger maniacprovost December 10, 2019 6:01 PM  

Bloomberg News provided the example of China Railway Construction Corporation, a company that covered up some fatalities on a railroad project

In before the first lolbertarian argues that covering up the deaths of workers is legitimate business practice

Well, as long as the train is fine.

Blogger Felis Concolor December 10, 2019 6:11 PM  

"I'll believe corporations are people when the State of Texas executes one."

It looks like China will set that example first.

Blogger artensoll December 10, 2019 6:14 PM  

Prometheus was a gamma.

Blogger The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey December 10, 2019 6:44 PM  

I kind of like it. The three men I admire most, the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost, they took the last train to the coast. But not Google. Low credit score!

Blogger Shane Bradman December 10, 2019 7:00 PM  

Next election in Austral I will be a single issue voter on who benefits our leader Xi Jinping the most.

Blogger Zorlig December 10, 2019 7:19 PM  

I'm more interested in how this plays out than put off in any way

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 10, 2019 7:20 PM  

My family gets shocked when I talk like you write here. My turn from libertarian to nationalist has been jarring for them.

Blogger Raker_T December 10, 2019 7:37 PM  

"Other expert observers pointed out that the rules governing the social credit system are notoriously vague and clearly subject to political tweaking from Beijing"
Knowing ((them)) they're criticizing the how, not the what. Like the Federal Reserve, they'll form an official sounding non government institution to make sure such matters are handled correctly.

Blogger SigSyndicate December 10, 2019 7:38 PM  

Once again, we see that even communism is better for a nation than globalist corpocracy.
Maybe better for the nation as a power structure, but I wouldn't say China's exactly a nice place to live.

Blogger Amethyst Dominica December 10, 2019 7:46 PM  

@21. Dunno about you, but I don't WANT a social control infrastructure that can be easily hijacked by ideologically motivated people to exist. Social Credit is (over a long period of time and a long rise in social mood,) no less impervious to Convergence than Big City governments and Big US Corporations have been. Perhaps the only reason the SJWs haven't taken over China's version of Big Brother is because they're waiting for it to grow and develop more tendrils first. It could also be that r-selection hasn't fully kicked in over there. After a long period of prosperity, the (further) development of a corrupticrat elite, and a Sexual Revolution, who's to say that large parts of China won't be every bit as degenerate as a Unitarian church in San Francisco? A Social Credit system in THOSE hands would make your average British literary dystopia seem like a Sunday walk in the park...

Blogger Ominous Cowherd December 10, 2019 8:26 PM  

Kuroiki-no-Ouji wrote:Maybe better for the nation as a power structure, but I wouldn't say China's exactly a nice place to live.
Are you a chink? China isn't supposed to be a nice place for non-Chinese.

Blogger Joe Smith December 10, 2019 8:27 PM  

"Bloomberg News provided the example of China Railway Construction Corporation, a company that covered up some fatalities on a railroad project in Mongolia, got caught, and was banned from doing business for a year as well as being “subject to more inspections, limits on bidding for public projects and restrictions on issuing bonds and shares.” And those were only the immediate consequences..."

That's my favorite part. It's written like I'm supposed to break down in tears for this poor company that just tried to hide the death of a few workers building a railroad in Mongolia, jeez guys. What's next, genocide?

Blogger Balam December 10, 2019 8:32 PM  

@Amethyst
''Dunno about you, but I don't WANT a social control infrastructure that can be easily hijacked by ideologically motivated people to exist. ''

@Lex Orandi
''The irony being that the Chinese government will hold corporations to standards that they do not hold themselves to.''

As opposed to the US system and government? The government here doesn't hold itself up to its own standards, not by a long shot, just look at how the IRS treats me if I miss a $10.00 payment vs the missing trillions in the Pentagon.
And the social control structure here was built with hostile control from the ground level. The NSA, CIA, FBI systems surrounding us were always intended to increase their own power from the very beginning with no pretense of being for the common heritage citizen.

I look upon the social credit system very much like the trust busting that happened in the US long before I was born: at least the government is taking some responsibility for what happens via corporation instead of letting them run around completely unopposed. It might be horrible for the government to step in against a corp but it certainly gives a ''well it's about time someone socked them in the nose'' feeling.

Blogger Dan Karelian December 10, 2019 8:53 PM  

It will be interesting to observe whether the Chicoms will overplay their hand with this attempt at social engineering and provoke a rebellion at some point.
Though their game will probably just devolve overtime and get more corrupted at the local level.

Blogger rumpole5 December 10, 2019 9:42 PM  

I occasionally do a google search of my own name, and one site that comes up is "my life". I noticed that it assigns a reputation score that reminds me of the Chinese social credit score mentioned in this post. "My life" has me driving a car I sold several years ago, and claims that I am a middle eastern jew (my ancestors were protestant German-American founder stock from at least 5 generations back on the paternal side and the 1740s on the maternal side). I hope that the Chinese are a little more accurate than that, or several billion people in the middle kingdom are in big trouble.

Blogger Jack Amok December 10, 2019 10:07 PM  

In before the first lolbertarian argues that covering up the deaths of workers is legitimate business practice

Hey, nobody said the NAP means you can't kill a coolie or two now and then.

Blogger maniacprovost December 10, 2019 10:37 PM  

It ain't none of the government's business what kind of industrial accident I die in. NO STEP ON SNEK

Maybe better for the nation as a power structure, but I wouldn't say China's exactly a nice place to live.

I'm not sure that the USA would win a policy comparison.

trust busting that happened in the US long before I was born: at least the government is taking some responsibility for what happens via corporation instead of letting them run around completely unopposed.

The worst alleged abuses of Standard Oil pale in comparison to the Neocons' Meddle East hijinks. I am reluctant to comment in ignorance but I'll do it anyway: Wouldn't it have been better to just hang a few of the gilded age crooks and otherwise let the Good Ol Boy business network flourish? I think trust busting was more about removing private, civil society power structures that could opposes the government.

Blogger JamesB.BKK December 10, 2019 10:45 PM  

The Chinese government people are more honest than slinking secretive unlawfully-acting GSI operatives. https://www.americanbanker.com/opinion/theres-no-downplaying-the-impact-of-operation-choke-point

Blogger damaris.tighe December 11, 2019 12:04 AM  

"You know Uyghurs just get rounded up into work camps and the women get sterilized. On top of it, they too might become volunteered to become organ donors."

Big Social Justice is clearly on the same trajectory.

Blogger mike December 11, 2019 12:07 AM  

Communism isn't really much better than globalist corpocracy. Both are international/global movements and both want to make everywhere to look the same, a major threat to the natural world order and self-government. Commies promote brainless apparatchiks and bureaucracy, globalists promote perverts and bureaucracy. Therefore the question is are apparatchiks better than perverts? Eventually, they will become one and the same, brainless, godless, perverted, apparatchiks. I would postulate that when there's lack of religion and morals, no matter what they do they end up like that.

Blogger Raker_T December 11, 2019 12:25 AM  

"Hey, nobody said the NAP means you can't kill a coolie or two now and then."
I have visions of a system like the environmental one; where you can buy rain forest acreage somewhere to get credits which offset your carbon footprint, which allows you to keep on making smoke, or whatever it is your factory emits. Only with the social credit thing, you get points at point A for supporting trans reading hour, which lets you get away with something else at point B.

Blogger Bufface December 11, 2019 12:43 AM  

The company who we are supposed to be sympathetic for covering up worker deaths seems to be heavily involved with infrastructure development in Israel.

Things that make you go hmmm.

https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/How-Israel-and-China-are-increasing-their-cooperation-on-the-railways-573678

Blogger Joe December 11, 2019 12:44 AM  

"Bloomberg News provided the example of China Railway Construction Corporation, a company that covered up some fatalities on a railroad project in Mongolia, got caught, and was banned from doing business for a year as well as being “subject to more inspections, limits on bidding for public projects and restrictions on issuing bonds and shares.” And those were only the immediate consequences – there is no telling how long the demerits fed into the social credit system will haunt the company and its managers across every province of China."

They say it as if it's a bad thing. If this is their way of throwing shade China's way, they've failed.

OT: The new Ghostbusters trailer dropped yesterday. The most up-voted comment: "There hasn't been a ghost sighting in 30 years." It's a good start.

Blogger Sillon December 11, 2019 2:28 AM  

@4

James Dixon wrote:> U.S. corporations are sounding the alarm about the fact that China intends to treat them precisely the way they are treating their employees and customers:

There's a simple solution to this problem: Don't do business in China.


Even better, don't send your factories abroad, earn less and make your society better by providing jobs to the community... ah but if (((quick shekels))) is that what you value most... then...

This all boils down to wanting the benefits of a Christian society while making all possible efforts to profit from the destruction of such society.

Blogger Jack Amok December 11, 2019 3:39 AM  

Only with the social credit thing, you get points at point A for supporting trans reading hour, which lets you get away with something else at point B.

That's what most of Leftist democracy is about anyway, only not very honestly. You vote for the lying gladhander who promises to "solve" poverty, or racism, or homelessness, or whatever other social ills plague society, and in exchange you can be as much of a monster as you like. You did your part, after all. What's a few dead workers and diddled kiddies when you voted for someone who'll save the planet from global warming?

Cheapest damn indulgences on the market, because you buy them with other people's wealth, prospects and prosperity.

Blogger The Lab Manager December 11, 2019 7:39 AM  

Sillon wrote:@4

James Dixon wrote:> U.S. corporations are sounding the alarm about the fact that China intends to treat them precisely the way they are treating their employees and customers:

There's a simple solution to this problem: Don't do business in China.


Even better, don't send your factories abroad, earn less and make your society better by providing jobs to the community... ah but if (((quick shekels))) is that what you value most... then...

This all boils down to wanting the benefits of a Christian society while making all possible efforts to profit from the destruction of such society.


But according to libertardian economic theory, shareholder value in the pursuit of $$$ is innate good all of the time. If your community is destroyed economically, well, libertardians will cheer the loss of jobs due to the 'free market'. If a company would prefer to hire Ebola infected Africans at the local meat plant, that to, is a good thing.

Nothing inherently wrong with profit except when taken to an extreme.

Blogger kmbr December 11, 2019 9:34 AM  

Anyone had to get a job lately? I went back to work, last year, when my husband started his own company so that we could have health insurance for less than $2500 a month OR a 10K deductible.

It's insane. They hire these "background" check companies. Depending the level the employer chooses, it can be very invasive. Up to and including talking to your neighbors and checking your social media. Drug test, criminal check. I actually hid my Twitter just in case, LOL. I had some Indian woman who wanted my tax forms (self employed years) and high school diploma. I told her I didn't have any of it and to go pound sand. She hounded me for like a week and eventually just went away.

It's a brave new world.

Blogger TMLutas December 11, 2019 9:37 AM  

The best social credit system is one that would be aimed at the government. Alas, it's likely that it will be the last one to ever be developed. Nobody's really enthusiastic about funding that one.

Blogger OneWingedShark December 11, 2019 11:04 AM  

furor kek tonicus ( iz it can be entrails on the ceiling time? don't consent to the IFLGravity! ) wrote:VD

U.S. corporations are sounding the alarm about the fact that China intends to treat them precisely the way they are treating their employees and customers:
4. James Dixon December 10, 2019 3:31 PM
There's a simple solution to this problem: Don't do business in China.

There's a simple solution to this problem: Don't do business with US corporations.

Even simpler solution: pressure the application of RICO and Antitrust laws to "American" corporations.
Make them fear.

bodenlose Schweinerei wrote:Other expert observers pointed out that the rules governing the social credit system are notoriously vague

Unlike rules and regulations here in the USA USA!, which are quite clear but simply ignored when corporations violate them. Those too big to jail get really cheesed off when they're not the ones defining the loopholes and "penumbras".

If we apply the laws uniformly, things will change.

Felis Concolor wrote:"I'll believe corporations are people when the State of Texas executes one."

It looks like China will set that example first.

The problem is that 'Texas' is all-talk and no action, just the "Remember the Alamo!" and "Con't mess with Texas" slogans thrown on bumperstickers — just look at how they responded to the "border crisis" [circa 2014], a "Display Purposes Only" PR-deployment of the Texas National Guard, despite TX Constitution Art 4, Sec. 7. GOVERNOR AS COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF OF MILITARY FORCES. He shall be Commander-in-Chief of the military forces of the State, except when they are called into actual service of the United States. He shall have power to call forth the militia to execute the laws of the State, to suppress insurrections, and to repel invasions.

Balam wrote:As opposed to the US system and government? The government here doesn't hold itself up to its own standards, not by a long shot, just look at how the IRS treats me if I miss a $10.00 payment vs the missing trillions in the Pentagon.
This may be on the road to changing: the happenings in VA in response to the obviously illegitimate anti-militia/-parade law give me some hope that the politicians and bureaucrats may yet be held to account.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd December 11, 2019 11:34 AM  

OneWingedShark wrote:This may be on the road to changing: the happenings in VA in response to the obviously illegitimate anti-militia/-parade law give me some hope that the politicians and bureaucrats may yet be held to account.
So far all the responses in VA have been meaningless, feelgood fluff. They pass their resolutions and the state will ignore them and do whatever it pleases.

They may yet do something real, like shoot some state cops trying to enforce unconstitutional laws, but until they do, all their sound and fury signifies nothing.

Blogger OneWingedShark December 11, 2019 12:51 PM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:OneWingedShark wrote:This may be on the road to changing: the happenings in VA in response to the obviously illegitimate anti-militia/-parade law give me some hope that the politicians and bureaucrats may yet be held to account.
So far all the responses in VA have been meaningless, feelgood fluff. They pass their resolutions and the state will ignore them and do whatever it pleases.

Oh, I agree that right now it's mostly a sort of signaling… but this is needed, even socially, because that is what the "drawing of battlelines" is.

They may yet do something real, like shoot some state cops trying to enforce unconstitutional laws, but until they do, all their sound and fury signifies nothing.
Even better: the law-enforcement that are on our side should arrest the politicians that passed these "laws" (as well as the lobbyists that wrote them)… let's be honest, the "non-enforcement" route is chronically-shortsighted, as simply ignoring them leaves them "on the books", ready for tyrants to use when those that would resist are too old, too much a minority, or too worn down to resist.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd December 11, 2019 1:03 PM  

OneWingedShark wrote:… but this is needed, even socially, because that is what the "drawing of battlelines" is.
My guess is that the VA globohomos will settle for what they wanted in the first place, and the conservatives will accept the new restrictions and go home content with their losses. After all, they forced the Left to compromise!

Next year the globohomos will do it again, and gain another yard.
OneWingedShark wrote:Even better: the law-enforcement that are on our side should arrest the politicians that passed these "laws"...
Yes, shooting the cops would be bad. They're basically NPCs.

Blogger HouellebecqGurl December 11, 2019 1:14 PM  

As someone who does business directly with China and is beloved by the Chinese companies I have interactions with, my feelings are HAHAHAHAHAHA!
I don't care if they put every Muslim in the world in a camp, nor do I blame them for banning as much rap and filthy Western degeneracy as possible from the country, I would as well.
My biggest complaint is how their immigrants openly spy on the US, but I'm reminded of the fact the US spies on and interjects itself constantly in foreign elections as well as constantly agitating the overthrow of leaders worldwide.

Blogger James Dixon December 11, 2019 1:40 PM  

> They may yet do something real,

Unlike most states, the counties of Virginia have another legally recognized government they can vote to join. I doubt any of them will do so, however.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd December 11, 2019 1:51 PM  

HouellebecqGurl wrote:I don't care if they put every Muslim in the world in a camp, ...
It is always appropriate to kill mohammedans. Torturing them does look bad, like pulling wings off flies instead of killing them.

Blogger sammibandit December 11, 2019 3:52 PM  

My biggest complaint is how their immigrants openly spy on the US, but I'm reminded of the fact the US spies on and interjects itself constantly in foreign elections as well as constantly agitating the overthrow of leaders worldwide.

Americans ought to be first in line when grievances air on their state's conduct, but there's a lot of people looking to bud in line.

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