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Friday, January 17, 2020

Must. Preserve. Delusion. Bubble.

It's always interesting to see how Gammas are able to stubbornly deny any facts that contradict their personal narrative. As always, few things cause them to burn with rage like the knowledge that others are considerably smarter than they are.
Hey Voxxy poo, quick question, how do you justify the fact in your head that you're a 150 IQ supergenius but then know that a complete moron like Owen says hes within 3 IQ points of you? I mean, Owen is a legitimate flat earther at this point and has never been a smart guy, except to the dumbest of people that buy all flavors of bullshit. Doesnt it kinda hurt your brand as 'high IQ guy' to also have another self confessed high IQ guy next to you that's very much obviously not high IQ? I'm not saying Owen is stupid, hes probably average give or take a bit. Just wondering your thoughts on that!
First, I don't justify anything at all. My IQ was measured at a high level as a child in studies at Harvard. After taking the IOWA tests in elementary school I was placed into an elite state math program. In fifth grade I was excused from most of my classes and was permitted to spend most of the school day in the library since I already knew all the material. I was in the 99th percentile for both the PSAT and the SAT back when they were aptitude tests rather than achievement tests. And I was both a National Merit Finalist and a member of Mensa, and was offered free rides at many universities.

Second, a 150 IQ does not make one a supergenius. I have known three people with IQs in excess of 170 very well, and I would not consider any of them to be geniuses, let alone supergeniuses. My best friend also has a very slightly higher IQ than me and he is not a genius either. More importantly, IQ is only a proxy measure for cognitive capacity, whereas genius is a description of genuine intellectual accomplishment worthy of historical note. Martin van Creveld is a genius. Prince was a genius. I have not yet accomplished anything I would consider to be worthy of the term.

And third, Owen is obviously quite intelligent. No one who is that rhetorically quick and effective is not. His ability to distill a complex dialectic argument down to a two-word rhetorical nuke, and to do so instantly, is almost unmatched in my experience. The fact that he is quite willing to entertain even the most outlandish theories is a sign of intelligence and curiosity; absolutely no intelligence is required to blindly accept the mainstream narrative despite the various anomalies that can be observed.

Ihateowenbenjamin is also back. He can't figure out why I never email him back, but that doesn't hinder his ability to practice armchair psychiatry. Notice, again, the desperate gamma need to believe that someone is not considerably smarter than he is, as well as the projection of his obsession with his own perceived intelligence.
Hey loser,

I saw you posted some of my email on your blog. Funny that you NEVER respond to any points brought up by anyone. It is always just sarcastic remarks to your idiotic followers about how smart you are. Why do you never respond?

Try responding to this. You talk daily about your lawsuit against Patreon, yet have NEVER said what it is about. WHY are you suing Patreon? Because Owen got kicked off? Clearly that is not enough reason to sue them... Are you denying that Owen broke TOS? How would you know if Owen broke TOS or not since you claim to almost never watch videos anyways?

Also you frequently mention that you were a "National Merit Semifinalist" or something along those lines. Please direct me to some proof of this! A picture, a link, a list, etc.

Also, comment on if you have ever considered that you may have Narcissistic Personality Disorder? You fit all the criteria. I guarantee you have this disorder. Your IQ is nowhere near 150 by the way!

But yea. it is clear you are a fraud. You never respond to any legitimate criticism. You have been caught lying on multiple occasions. in your mind you will deny this because of your personality disorder, you find ways to justify your lies.

Respond. Bet you can't.
I have never said a single word about a "lawsuit" against Patreon, much less "my" lawsuit against them. I do not have any cause or standing to sue Patreon, since I have never been a user of their site. Nor, to the best of my knowledge, are there at present any lawsuits against Patreon; some of the recent changes to their terms of use were intended to impose lawsuits in the place of the previously selected alternative forms of dispute resolution. I am neither a lawyer nor a litigant, I am merely a humble philosopher and dark lord who occasionally finds some small amusement in reading corporate terms and policies and contemplating their vagaries.

Another certain Gamma tell is the inability to distinguish "can't" from "won't".

Labels: , ,

144 Comments:

Blogger FUBARwest January 17, 2020 5:42 AM  

It's almost sad... Almost.

Blogger JamesB.BKK January 17, 2020 5:49 AM  

Watta tool.

Blogger JamesB.BKK January 17, 2020 5:50 AM  

Sorry. Two tools. Not the useful kind.

Blogger God Emperor Memes January 17, 2020 5:54 AM  

I must say, I do enjoy reading the Reddit posts about you. - Those people are utter morons and prove it with every word.

Blogger My Dead Gramps January 17, 2020 6:02 AM  

Indistinguishable from women and lambdas.

Blogger MATT January 17, 2020 6:02 AM  

Voxxypoo?

Blogger Section 8A January 17, 2020 6:12 AM  

After reading this guy's stuff... is there a place where we can put all the gammas, NPC's, and blue haired SJW's all together? This way the regular people won't have to deal with them.

Blogger Thomas Preston January 17, 2020 6:16 AM  

This guy is the definition of gamma. Amazing how Vox can even read this bilge. Testament to Vox's patience, I guess. After reading Vox's blog for a couple of years now, no matter how much you disagree with Vox, he is no liar. I have never read Vox intentionally post any deceitful content on this blog. Press on, Vox!

Blogger Lazarus January 17, 2020 6:21 AM  

I said it before but its worth repeating.

This guy is on the road to Spoonerville.

I look forward to the next installment.

Blogger Robert Browning January 17, 2020 6:24 AM  

That is a Moshiach lover. It is our ability to reason that separates us from the animals. The Moshiach lover lacks this ability, can not reason, or explain his actions with reason. He is an inferior being. There is more to being a human being than walking on two legs instead of four.

Blogger Eduardo January 17, 2020 6:29 AM  

Voxy Mate is pretty damn stupid, I thought to myself

But thus guy:

Voxxy Poo...

Voxxy... Poo...

Poo...

*thinks of Vox dressed as Pooh*
*Holding a flaming sword*

Yep, my Psychiatrist was wrong, I am normal after all.

Blogger Brett baker January 17, 2020 6:30 AM  

It's bad enough being mentally stuck in high school, but kindergarten?

Blogger Balkan Yankee January 17, 2020 6:33 AM  

Prose so toxic it made my eyes hurt and my soul shrivel.

Blogger Lazarus January 17, 2020 6:44 AM  

Brett baker wrote:It's bad enough being mentally stuck in high school, but kindergarten?

He didn't take care of his mentals, like Mr. Lynch advised.

Blogger Capital6 January 17, 2020 6:48 AM  

That is a great distinction between high IQ and genius. Potential vs kinetic.

Blogger pdwalker January 17, 2020 6:56 AM  

Lord Love a Duck!

what window licking morons.

i wasn’t one of the jocks at school, but even i would have given these twats atomic wedgies and then stuffed them into their lockers until their attitudes improved.

how VD developed such patience, i’ll never know.

Blogger bodenlose Schweinerei January 17, 2020 6:58 AM  

The ones that love us least
Are the ones we'll die to please

Blogger ScottC January 17, 2020 7:00 AM  

Vox, was Jerry Pournelle one of the 4+ SD people you've known? How smart was he?

Blogger Teleros January 17, 2020 7:01 AM  

Voxxypoo... I can only imagine that coming from the worst kind of cloying, saccharine-sweet, (s)mothering anime catgirl towards the man she adores.

Gammas are weird.

Blogger Dire Badger January 17, 2020 7:16 AM  

buhh. I never liked childhood IQ tests. I mean, at 8 years old I weighed in at 163, but when I took the same test 15 years later I was only 141, and none of that makes me capable of remembering the rules for long division or the date of my anniversary.

I think it sets unrealistic expectations and provides little more than braggartly pride to parents. If a child enjoys books, does well on tests, and is bored with normal classes, THEN you put them in the talented and gifted student program... Not because of some federal test that leads school councellors, parents, and head shrinkers to relentlessly badgering the kid about his 'potential'.


Vox leads lots of great works and classic authors because he enjoys them. They bore the crap out of me. I am betting that my preferred reading materials, historical survival manuscripts, cookbooks and cooking techniques, and Military Fiction would bore him too.

IQ is important on a statistical level, but on an individual level? nearly useless. Success is the only real indicator of success.

Blogger Doktor Jeep January 17, 2020 7:17 AM  

My mind of late has been wandering down rabbit holes of observed history and experience regarding gammas.
I starting to reach the conclusion that they are slowly destroying civilization.

Blogger maniacprovost January 17, 2020 7:20 AM  

Intellectual accomplishments of note are subjective and slightly random. It's a fair criteria and somewhat more useful by virtue of being peer reviewed; I'd be more inclined to trust the judgment of history than the judgment of one person as to who is a genius... Although, it doesn't really matter anyway, especially once you're dead.

On the other hand, "genius" sounds nicer than UHIQ for describing qualitatively superior mind-magic.

Anyway the point is, there's a Netflix show called "You" about a super gamma that is fascinating on a meta level because I'm not sure how well a TV writer can portray the Gamma mindset. Also, being a super gamma inevitably means being a psychopath. Which is an interesting insight, if true. Are Gammas just low-grade psychopaths?

Blogger Steve Samson January 17, 2020 7:27 AM  

I really don't understand. Gammas are supposed to talk in lofty look-at-me-I'm-smart language, so how on earth does he start a sentence with "but?"

Blogger Shane Bradman January 17, 2020 7:31 AM  

Haha what sort of fucking moron doesn't understand basic legal jargon? A literal moron, as described by the American eugenics program, would know what a lawsuit is and why it's different to other forms of legal action.

Useless gammas think it's great being on the side where the grass is greener, and while the grass is greener and juicier over here, the sheep on the mediocre grass side are way more fun.

Blogger rumpole5 January 17, 2020 7:31 AM  

Hint: If you don't like the blogger, Stop reading his blog! Certainly don't waste YOUR time sending e-mails and composing comments.

Blogger VFM #7634 January 17, 2020 7:33 AM  

After reading this guy's stuff... is there a place where we can put all the gammas, NPC's, and blue haired SJW's all together? This way the regular people won't have to deal with them.

@7 Section 8A
God tends to prefer Hell.

Blogger Shane Bradman January 17, 2020 7:36 AM  

@20. "relentlessly badgering the kid about his 'potential'."
In high school they do career tests which are a very dumbed down version of an aptitude test to figure out what students strengths are to recommend them careers for the future. Being "smart" and having lots of "potential" meant the results said "You're special! You can do whatever you want!" Great, thanks, but where's my fucking career advice?
Success is success, and there are as many stupid successful people as there are intelligent successful people, or more.

Blogger ZhukovG January 17, 2020 7:36 AM  

The highly intelligent must develop patience or go mad.

Blogger Sillon January 17, 2020 7:37 AM  

God Emperor Memes wrote:I must say, I do enjoy reading the Reddit posts about you. - Those people are utter morons and prove it with every word.

Yup, it is vomit inducing, and you get to realize quickly how much intelligent they are than anybody here. (Facepalm)

Vox's "Ankle biter" is the perfect term to describe all of them.

Blogger JG January 17, 2020 7:49 AM  

Anklebiting moron ihateowenbenjamin demonstrates clearly that he doesn't understand arbitration, corporate business structures, how lawyers do their lawyering, and what IQ measures, and thinks VD owes him a response?

Gammas gotta gamma, I suppose.

Blogger Uncle John's Band January 17, 2020 7:54 AM  

The unrequited lust dripping from these pleas for help is more disturbing than amusing.

The notion that this psycho-sexual gibberish is somehow response-worthy is the comical part.

Blogger Harris January 17, 2020 7:56 AM  

Vox,

I think you make a great point about IQ being only one measure, and not a true measure of genius. I have a very good friend who dropped out of college, started and built a company with offices in every state, and several foreign countries, opened three factories, and then sold it all for $300M at age 41. Technically, I have a higher IQ, skipped grades in school, was in 99th percentile, and have an IQ of 146 - measured in several privately given tests by psychologists. But I don't consider myself to be very accomplished, and don't consider my "intelligence" to be the defining factor of my life.

The reality is that faith in Jesus Christ is the most important thing, and if you have the gift of the Holy Spirit residing in you as a Christian, He has all knowledge and wisdom, and can supply understanding in a moment what men cannot find on their own in a 1000 years. My take is that someone with a low level IQ, but with faith in Jesus, is far, far superior to anyone with a high IQ, but no faith in Christ. This is because anyone with God is simply smarter than anyone without Him.

The book of James says, "Let the lowly brother glory in his exaltation, but the rich in his humiliation." Applied to intelligence, a paraphrase could be, "Let the unintelligent brother glory in the knowledge of Christ which exalts him, and the intelligent glory in the fact that he is inferior to God."

Blogger YehudaL January 17, 2020 8:01 AM  

"...legitimate criticism."

I was hoping he'd use "thoughtful".

Blogger MagnusStout January 17, 2020 8:29 AM  

I don’t understand the desire to tear something down to feel better. Greatness should inspire admiration. I think the father of gammas must be Lucifer.

Blogger Michael January 17, 2020 8:37 AM  

Is gamma behavior related to personality disorders? Most normal people aren't compelled to send (repeatedly) histrionic e-mails to bloggers they disagree with.

Blogger Haus frau January 17, 2020 8:40 AM  

All of that block print translates into "please, please validate me! Im smart too!"
Imagine being that insecure.

Blogger Blume January 17, 2020 9:11 AM  

@Harris,
There is a great passage in the wizard of rhyme books about this. It has an atheist trying to doubt God in the face of an angel. The angel tells him God doesn't care about how smart a person is just weither he believes and does good or not. So get off his high horse and help the stupid peasants or go to hell.

Blogger rondolf January 17, 2020 9:13 AM  

Things like these make it seem a blessing to be a slow reader. I look at the first sentence and realize I don't have time in my life for this type of crap.

Blogger Tomato bear January 17, 2020 9:19 AM  

They never recognize the massive show of force when there is one. Just prove how dumb they are ....

Blogger peacefulposter January 17, 2020 9:22 AM  

BB is a comic genius.

And to come up with stuff like he did on yesterday's stream, about the Big Bang really being about sex, is also pure genius!

Blogger Rightrage January 17, 2020 9:26 AM  

I've seen enough of Owens streams to know he's a certified moron. He's banned ppl who contradict his flat earth talking points & gets mad when they do. He'll swallow anything & clearly relies on others to think for him, he did when he was with conservative inc. & still does now that he's a conspiracy merchant of insanity. I've always believed in some conspiracies & don't believe the mainstream narrative on a lot, but Owen just runs with nearly every absurd lunacy he finds on the internet...

Blogger Blume January 17, 2020 9:27 AM  

The atheist thing got me thinking. These are the kind of people that would deny christ and Vox's intelligence if Christ himself descended from heaven with blood still flowing from his wounds with Vox's SAT scores in one hand and his mensa membership in the other.

Blogger Scott January 17, 2020 9:27 AM  

There's a reason God made Hell. Those who hate the truth, lie, betray, and sow strife among their "friends" need to be separated from those of us who don't.

Can you imagine a fate worse than spending eternity with Gammas?

Blogger Avalanche January 17, 2020 9:32 AM  

@7 "is there a place where we can put all the gammas, NPC's, and blue haired SJW's all together?"

Did anyone ever figure out which actual island was written about in "Lord of the Flies"? That'd do.

Blogger Doctor Mayhem January 17, 2020 9:33 AM  

In the ethnostate, anyone who uses terms like "voxxy poo" will be executed.

Blogger James Dixon January 17, 2020 9:36 AM  

> My take is that someone with a low level IQ, but with faith in Jesus, is far, far superior to anyone with a high IQ, but no faith in Christ.

The word you're looking for is complete, not superior.

> I don’t understand the desire to tear something down to feel better.

When you're incapable of creating yourself, tearing down the creations of those who can is the only thing you have left.

Blogger Doctor Mayhem January 17, 2020 9:37 AM  

I wish I saw your comment before I posted mine below.

I stand by it, regardless. Anyone who ises terms like that deserves,execution.

Blogger Scott January 17, 2020 9:39 AM  

Moron? No.
Credulous? Perhaps.
Hilarious? Yes!

Blogger Azure Amaranthine January 17, 2020 9:45 AM  

" If you don't like the blogger, Stop reading his blog! Certainly don't waste YOUR time sending e-mails and composing comments."

Imagine a characterization like "tsundere" but with the "dere" part replaced with envy and impotence.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine January 17, 2020 9:46 AM  

"I don’t understand the desire to tear something down to feel better."

Misery loves company.

Blogger Avalanche January 17, 2020 9:54 AM  

@41 "He's banned ppl who contradict his flat earth talking points & gets mad when they do."

So, you *identify with* the criticizers, and get angry at Owen for chucking them without argument? MOST of the people who criticize his flat earth talking points don't criticize his points: they criticize OWEN for even talking (or ranting) about it.

You haven't noticed he has several THOUSAND people on his stream? You think he should take the time and care to answer thoughtfully people who are screaming at him: "flat earth?! You're an @ss!" As poor-old seemingly cowardly St Efan would say: "Not an argument!" Owen is throwing a party for people who like him, and you're upset because when people disrupt HIS party, he throws them out?

I'm not happy about the flat earth stuff: not when Owen pushes it and not when I have looked into it. On the other hand, as Vox always says: "EVERY 'orthodoxy' has lies. You may not know which things are the lies; but there is no question they are there." Some of the FE stuff I've looked at is easily discounted. Some of it is NOT. I don't care enough to research further -- that's not my topic in this life.

My topic is the lie of evolution, about which I am devouring books. It's a huge struggle to overcome literally decades of study and 'orthodox' education about it -- but the evidence that it's crap is becoming overwhelming. And rather than blowing off Vox Day's opinion and Owen Benjamin's ranting -- I am withholding judgement as I am, no-longer unwillingly, being backed into 100% certain Darwinian evolution in all its manifestations and cover-ups and expansions and 'cutting off' of stuff that won't work is 100% NOT possible. Because I acknowledge and value both Vox's dialectic presentation and often Owen's rhetorical flights, I am willing to suspend my own 'certainty' of what I was taught (no longer: 'what I know') and look for myself.

Try it, you might benefit by opening your mind a bit.

Blogger Timitz January 17, 2020 9:57 AM  

Voxxypoo... It sounds like he is trying to get Vox banned in China

Blogger Pierre January 17, 2020 10:00 AM  

The "highly intelligent" secret king starts an email with "hey loser" and expects the recipient to reply to his "arguments"...

Hmmm...

Blogger sammibandit January 17, 2020 10:08 AM  

Rightrage believes that we actually care what he thinks, but Owen is the conspiracy nutter between the two. Only a credentialed loser would believe in a conspiracy with no evidence. I thought opening a P.P.S. with "Hey loser" was hilarious until I read his comment. Absolute gold.

Blogger riffer73 January 17, 2020 10:10 AM  

Isn't this just another version of the Intelligent vs Intellectual debate?

There are a lot of very smart people who don't believe what the intelligentsia do.

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelphia January 17, 2020 10:15 AM  

Dire Badger wrote:IQ is important on a statistical level, but on an individual level? nearly useless. Success is the only real indicator of success.

Agreed that it is indeed important on a statistical level -- I'd say critically important, actually -- but a bit more than useless on an individual level.

There's a reason the US military has used it as a sorting mechanism since World War I -- you simply can't have low IQ men handling high explosives. IQ is a directionally valid measurement for each individual -- it measures capacity to handle abstract ideas, and handle problems conceptually.

It doesn't measure, and was never intended to measure, character and conscientiousness. This distinction is where guys like Taleb, bless his heart, go off the rails.

Moreover, if the nation decides to allow immigrants in, absent cultural differences, everyone of them should take an IQ test. Had we done that, Minnesota and Maine would not be infected with thousands of Somalis. An Ilhan Omar might get in as a result -- being presumably the intelligent daughter of a smarter than average Somali tribal chieftain -- but she'd never be in the House of Representatives.

Blogger Oswald January 17, 2020 10:18 AM  

Lot of people probably start off smarter then they end up for various reasons including addictions, environmental toxins, failure to take care of themselves.

In my experience, additions create not only patterns of behaviors, but also patterns of thoughts that make it difficult to think about anything but feeding the addiction or addictions. Again my experience, but I have found prayer and meditation helpful in breaking these patterns of thinking.

I believe that chemicals put in the food, chemicals dumped in the environment, and excessive open air nuclear testing have created an environment that can be toxic to our brains.

Not taking care of themselves, by not exercise, bad food, lack of sleep, excessive stress, have all led to making people go on auto pilot and quit thinking for themselves.

Blogger John Rockwell January 17, 2020 10:19 AM  

@VFM #7634
A shame that God doesnt delete them from existence.

Blogger John Rockwell January 17, 2020 10:21 AM  

@Scott

Sure hell is good punishment. But why arent they are eventually deleted from existence.

I think its better if they simply cease existing after some time in hell.

Blogger Oswald January 17, 2020 10:27 AM  

59, you think you know better than God?

Blogger CarpeOro January 17, 2020 10:33 AM  

@rumpole5

True. Wasting time on people on the internet for whom you have no regard or reason to interact with is not a sign of intelligence. It may be boredom, but that is also not a sign of intelligence. Smart people drop it and move on to something else. Like maybe deal with the real world issues you are trying to avoid.

Blogger Stilicho January 17, 2020 10:40 AM  

Reminds me of the old story about a poor right winger and a poor leftist seeing a rich man in a limo:

right winger--someday I'll have that.

Leftist-- someday I'll have him out of that.

The secret king can only "succeed" by trying to tear down someone smarter, better, or more accomplished than him to his level.

Gamma, it's a zero sum game in a zero sum life.

Blogger Bernard Korzeniewicz January 17, 2020 11:11 AM  

@Rightrage
BB bannwed me and rughtly so.
My comment was thoughtless and disrespectful.
And no, I can't watch his streams. I can't sacrifice 2h a day on entertainment.

Blogger Bernard Korzeniewicz January 17, 2020 11:13 AM  

Exactly. BB is wrong many times but he forces me to examine what I know, how I get to know it and why it sometimes doesn't fit reality.

Blogger Miguel January 17, 2020 11:16 AM  

Vox, would you put Michael Jackson at the genius level?

Thanks.

Blogger Bernard Korzeniewicz January 17, 2020 11:18 AM  

Their whole life seems to be concentrated around hate and envy.
How anyone can live like this.

Blogger Oswald January 17, 2020 11:23 AM  

65 Trick question?

Blogger wahsatchmo January 17, 2020 11:28 AM  

"I am neither a lawyer nor a litigant, I am merely a humble philosopher and dark lord who occasionally finds some small amusement in reading corporate terms and policies and contemplating their vagaries."

Those who accuse VD of lying will never know the genuine joy one feels in reveling in his gift for understatement.

Blogger Unknown January 17, 2020 11:32 AM  

A main characteristic of a High IQ person is the ability to identify other High IQ people. Low IQ people call them crazy.

Blogger Charlie the Chaste January 17, 2020 11:33 AM  

I think Ihateowenbenjamin has Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Blogger VD January 17, 2020 11:40 AM  

Vox, would you put Michael Jackson at the genius level?

No. Highly talented, but not a genius.

Blogger VD January 17, 2020 11:41 AM  

Their whole life seems to be concentrated around hate and envy. How anyone can live like this.

When you can't bear even the thought of failure, it's much less painful to assiduously avoid trying to accomplish anything yourself.

Blogger Balam January 17, 2020 11:41 AM  

maniacprovost wrote:Also, being a super gamma inevitably means being a psychopath. Which is an interesting insight, if true. Are Gammas just low-grade psychopaths?

Not having seen 'you' I will say that gammas are likely not psychopathic. They care too much and the primary trait of psychopaths is that their emotions do not affect their actions. The gamma is closer to aspd (anti social personality disorder). If you would like to learn more about psychopathy in specific watch the documentary on the murderer the Iceman who had an extreme case of psychopathy.

Rightrage wrote:I've seen enough of Owens streams to know he's a certified moron. He's banned ppl who contradict his flat earth talking points & gets mad when they do.

You are very stupid. Even just knowing Owen's background of being a standup comedian is enough to realize that he has a keen eye for hecklers. There are people in the crowd who will never be pleased and want to ruin it for everyone else and any standup worth his salt can identify and neutralize them on the spot. Already the simplest explanation for ban-on-sight without even requiring your pathetic 'analysis'. The real surprising thing is Vox applying the same strategy in blog format and proving that it similarly improves the crowd and their enjoyment.

Blogger Garuna January 17, 2020 11:44 AM  

Make Bullying Great Again!

Blogger D E K January 17, 2020 11:46 AM  

The other Gamma example a few days back was more amusing. I have written Vox on a few occasions and never got a response. I would have really cherished one, but I don't mind not getting anything - it is Vox Day after all. These Gamma examples are educational. I might reconsider how I am reacting to other people. Maybe there are more Gammas around me, which would bring me to the conclusion to care less or even don't give a ...... what other people are thinking.

Blogger Rabid Ratel January 17, 2020 11:52 AM  

Section 8A wrote:After reading this guy's stuff... is there a place where we can put all the gammas, NPC's, and blue haired SJW's all together? This way the regular people won't have to deal with them.

If you can boot them all the way to South Africa, we have a problem with acid water leaking from unused mines. There is no guarantee that they will stop the water, but the acid water should at least keep them out of sight

Blogger Harris January 17, 2020 12:19 PM  

John Rockwell wrote:@Scott

Sure hell is good punishment. But why arent they are eventually deleted from existence.

I think its better if they simply cease existing after some time in hell.


There is an easy answer to this question. Mankind is animated by the breath of God, which itself is eternal. That means that people will never cease to exist in their spiritual form.

The question then becomes where they spend eternity. The problem is our definition of of "eternal life." We interpret "eternal" to mean never ending. But the Bible gives a different definition. In John 17:3 Jesus is praying to the Father, and He says, "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."

We don't have to wait until after death to get eternal life. We get it the moment we place our faith in Trust in Jesus. At that moment, we come into a spiritual "knowing" of God the Father, and Jesus Christ whom He sent." that knowledge is not an intellectual knowledge, per se, although we can grow in understanding. The knowledge Jesus is speaking of in John 17:3 is an experiential knowledge, in the same manner that "Adam KNEW Eve, and she conceived and bare a son."

That intimate knowing of God is literally Eternal Life, and can be experienced here on earth, prior to death, "if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Intimacy with God is the ultimate goal. Not service to God. Not morality.

Of course, intimacy with God causes service to God and moral living. 1 John 3:3 "And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure." But moral purity and service to God and others is a RESULT of intimacy with God. Most people have this backwards. They get the cause and effect backwards. They think living a pure life, and serving God will CAUSE God to become intimate with them. But the reality is the opposite. Intimacy with God, through faith CAUSES moral purity and service to spring forth because we become more like Him as we commune with Him.

Those who reject Jesus may continue to exist, but they will never have eternal life, in the sense that they will never KNOW God, and Jesus Christ whom He has sent. But the piece of God that comes from His Breath in them will never die, and the torment of Hell is that they will be forever without Him. And there is NO GOOD apart from God - only torment. And just like you can experience eternal life now, you can also experience torment (Hell) now. The choice is entirely yours.

Blogger Harris January 17, 2020 12:29 PM  

VD wrote:Their whole life seems to be concentrated around hate and envy. How anyone can live like this.

When you can't bear even the thought of failure, it's much less painful to assiduously avoid trying to accomplish anything yourself.


Conversely, those who trust in Jesus as their Savior have already acknowledged they cannot succeed apart from God. Acknowledging a need for a savior removes the fear of failure, and allows us to walk in His path, rather than worry about making it on our own.

The greatest lesson of my life has been coming to realize that all my efforts outside of Him have led to the failures in my life. Sometimes, I think it is really hard for the super intelligent to come to this realization, just as it is hard for the super rich to see their dependency on God. We tend to compare ourselves to each other, instead of against God's standard. Once you see you cannot ever measure up in yourself, and call out to Jesus to save you, it relieves the burden. If God is the source of wisdom, riches, fame, success, etc. then there no longer is a need to be jealous of others - even those who temporarily achieve those things apart from God. True lasting success comes only in Him.

I know that as a really smart guy, I resented for many years the verse from John 15 that says, "without Me, you can do nothing." I thought that surely I could do SOMETHING. And in comparison to others, I could. But it always ended in misery, disappointed expectations, and self-inflicted failure. My life has become much more enjoyable since I decided to rely on Him completely. My career success, my relationships, my understanding and wisdom has grown exponentially. More importantly, I have peace on a day to day basis. There is a great verse of scripture in Ecclesiastes 5:20. : "And he does not often consider the length of his days, for God keeps him occupied with the gladness of his heart." It's a great way to live. I highly recommend it.

Blogger Boomer55 January 17, 2020 12:38 PM  

@6
Not even a clever gamma. I would have used "Cox Gay" and mentioned Milo or something.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 17, 2020 12:51 PM  

@ihateownebenjamin,
Vox still isn't going to sleep with you.
@Rightrage,
The smart thing to do when the bouncer throws you out of the club is to go to another club, not hang around outside the door haranguing and occasionally assaulting the patrons. There's lots of clubs.

Blogger Akulkis January 17, 2020 1:32 PM  

"I've always believed in some conspiracies & don't believe the mainstream narrative on a lot, but Owen just runs with nearly every absurd lunacy he finds on the internet..."

Say something seems absurd to you, but you think there's an outside chance it might be true, and you don't have the sort of domain-specific expertise to figure out if it's crack-pottery, or great insight.

Here's what you do -- you toss the idea out there, and compare the pro- and anti- responses, specifically looking for people who have the required domain-specific knowledge to make an argument actually worth listening to.

I do a variation on this when I'm in a class, and I think I understand something, so, I'll ask a question, basically paraphrasing the teacher/prof/instructor, saying, "So, if I understand you correctly..." and then put out my mental model. If I'm right, then great. If I'm wrong/over-simplified or left out/understated something important, the instructor will correct me.

Sometimes, I'll do it as a flat out statement, looking for those who contradict me, because if there's something I missed, then the nay-sayers may well have something to teach me.

Now, what if, instead of doing the above actions for the purpose I do (learning/understanding/gaining info), but instead, did it for the purpose of riling up spergatroids solely for the amusement of it.

You do realize that the best stand-up comedians LOVE a heckler -- because the heckler has unwittingly volunteered to become part of the comedian's act, AND allows the comedian to demonstrate his improv skills.

Now, understanding what I just wrote above, go back and review some of BB's "flat earth" stuff, and realize he's doing three things

1) He's separating out spergs who he doesn't want to have anything to do with
2) He's drawing a sort of dividing line, using an issue which will make no difference in the typical person's life, to separate his his fans from his non-fans
3) He's building rapport with his fans by the use of the in-joke.

If you can't understand if for what it is: that it's an in-joke, then you'll never be part of the in-group.

Blogger Beau January 17, 2020 2:02 PM  

@ Harris

Well said,

That intimate knowing of God is literally Eternal Life, and can be experienced here on earth, prior to death, "if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Intimacy with God is the ultimate goal. Not service to God. Not morality.

Of course, intimacy with God causes service to God and moral living. 1 John 3:3 "And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure." But moral purity and service to God and others is a RESULT of intimacy with God. Most people have this backwards. They get the cause and effect backwards. They think living a pure life, and serving God will CAUSE God to become intimate with them. But the reality is the opposite. Intimacy with God, through faith CAUSES moral purity and service to spring forth because we become more like Him as we commune with Him.


Well done, indeed.

Blogger Nate January 17, 2020 2:04 PM  

look
. owen is not dumb.. but the only reason he is close to you in iq is because you're literally retarded at spatial reasoning.

Blogger Kiwi January 17, 2020 2:07 PM  

I noticed Owen has the reaction speed of a hummingbird, and not just with his thinking. Listen to his typing! Reaction speed is a good indication of IQ, so I know Owen is smart even if he says "dumb" things.

And VD, he might have a lot of impressive books on the shelf, but that's not the give away to his IQ. His speed is, he can read the comments at the speed of light. For a slower reader like myself, it's fascinating to watch.

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelphia January 17, 2020 2:09 PM  

VD wrote:Vox, would you put Michael Jackson at the genius level?

No. Highly talented, but not a genius.


Quincy Jones, on the other hand, approaches genius level -- musically, that is.

In other areas of life, not so much.

It's no accident that Jackson's best record was produced by him.

Blogger tublecane January 17, 2020 2:27 PM  

"IQ is only a proxy measure for cognitive capacity"

That's an acceptable definition of genius. Powerful inborn intelligence and/or talent. Prodigious natural creativity, cleverness, brainpower, etc.

This we get from the root, "gene," which is literally connected to birth.

"genius is a description of genuine intellectual accomplishment worthy of historical note."

That's one way to use it. Though we all know of "great minds in chains," somehow unable to fulfill potential. Maybe because they didn't actually have the potential in the first place, but not always.

There are words for people who have jumped the gap from innate capacity to actual accomplishment. A virtuoso, for instance, has to demonstrate skill. A master has to have mastery over something. These are not things with which you're born.

Blogger tublecane January 17, 2020 2:37 PM  

@22- Watch an interview with a random male t.v. writer and tell me they don't know how a gamma thinks. (Because they are one.)

I haven't seen that particular show, but Netflix and other purveyors of contemporary television are unduly interested in the mentally ill and disabled. Not in the good way for instance a Dostoyevsky was. Though even that master artist could have used fewer nutballs in his stories.

I can't identify with these people, and I don't know if I'm even supposed to. Which is a problem. Can't very well watch people I hate doing uninteresting things, unless I'm mentally ill too.

Perhaps I' missing the point and I'm supposed to be condescending to the stories. Like, say, Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Which is full of garbage people, but it's a sitcom.

Blogger tublecane January 17, 2020 2:40 PM  

@20- I.Q. is a good indicator of success. At least within a certain range. I mean, it can't predict World-Historical success. But socio-economic class performance? Yes.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 17, 2020 2:48 PM  

tublecane wrote:@20- I.Q. is a good indicator of success. At least within a certain range.
Absolutely not true above high-midwit, say 130. IQ is an indicator of capacity, but VHIQ and UHIQ individuals tend to have more than a few problems communicating, coping with life in general and avoiding mental illness and addiction in particular.

Blogger SciVo January 17, 2020 2:58 PM  

As a well-read layman on the subject of mental health, I find it very annoying when fellow non-professionals casually abuse technical terms. It makes the rest of us look bad.

Everyone has the narcissism personality trait; the only question is where you are on the spectrum. In my life, I have only personally known a handful of people that I believe have the narcissistic personality disorder, and Vox is nothing like them.

NPD sufferers are notable in my mind for two characteristics. One is a profound hollowness; they have no core, and will change their entire image and presentation on a whim, to such an extent that you literally might not even recognize them as the same person from one day to the next.

Another is that they generate an impenetrable unreality bubble, and if you get too close, can actually warp your own perceptions. They will gaslight you entirely by accident, just by completely changing their unreality -- even to its opposite! -- from one day to the next.

Vox does not exhibit even the smallest sign of NPD, and in fact is one of the most steady and level-headed men that I have ever observed.

Blogger Rek. January 17, 2020 3:06 PM  

My sentiment exactly. Lots of clubs, lots of parties to attend, lots pf saloons... just go find your crowd and have fun there.

Now I am saying this but i know how gammas are. They take life too seriously and are gonna fuck it up eventually.

Blogger Autarky Bear January 17, 2020 3:24 PM  

Well this was an entertaining read. These Gammas never learn, which would make me sad and pity them a little if they weren't so annoying. I decided I am going to start the journey of reading your literary works. At least the ones available on Kindle, can't wait to see what I'll learn.

Blogger tublecane January 17, 2020 3:44 PM  

@89- Okay, but I said within a certain range. And people with IQs over 130 make up what share of the total population? Less than 3 percent? Not very significant when judging the overall accuracy of predicting success with I.Q.

I realize this is a thread about genius, but I.Q. in general was called out.

Blogger tublecane January 17, 2020 3:48 PM  

@65- Michael Jackson was a virtuosic singer and dancer, plus a child prodigy at musical performance.

Far as composition is concerned, I couldn't say good accomplished he was.

I haven't seen any indication he's of ultra-high intelligence. I remember YouTube "personality" Razorfist arguing that he couldn't have been a pedo because he's such a genius he would have got away with it. Which he kinda-sorta did , actually.

But I find that argument dubious.

Blogger Oswald January 17, 2020 4:05 PM  

Reminds of the an old saying. The prisons are full of smart guys.

Blogger maniacprovost January 17, 2020 4:09 PM  

gammas are likely not psychopathic. They care too much and the primary trait of psychopaths is that their emotions do not affect their actions. The gamma is closer to aspd (anti social personality disorder)

Psychopathy was originally used to define all cases of personality disorders, but now psychopathy is seen as a more severe form of Antisocial Personality Disorder (Maddux, J., & Winstead, B., 2008).

I don't want to wade into the incoherent mess of abnormal psychological classifications, but I would tend to say gammas are not sociopaths but are similar to psychopaths

Blogger Akuma January 17, 2020 5:28 PM  

"IQ is an indicator of capacity, but VHIQ and UHIQ individuals tend to have more than a few problems communicating, coping with life in general and avoiding mental illness and addiction in particular."

Communication problems are not their fault or even their problem. They are the comunicatees problem. A lack of comprehension on the others part is not the comunicators fault. Yet they are made to suffer for it because stupid people hate smart people. A healthy society would take it into account and help them. In clown world though the lowest dregs get help and the brightest get sent on the long walk.

Blogger The Cooler January 17, 2020 5:30 PM  

Show me an impotent sociopath/psychopath, fellas...

The gamma suffers developmental arrest, simple as that. Indeed, were the gamma to transmogrify into a socio/psychopath, he would have -- by that act alone -- overcome his gammatude.

Nor do gammas, as a general rule, suffer Antisocial Personality Disorder, as the gamma is nothing if not remorseful, even if only for not having developed an outlet for their remorse; one of the many thing festering in the psyche of these incompletes.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 17, 2020 5:35 PM  

Akuma wrote:Communication problems are not their fault or even their problem. They are the comunicatees problem.
Go out to the psych ward, the prison, the homeless encampment or the rehab clinic and tell them that. I'm sure they'll be glad for the information.
Failure to communicate is indeed both their fault and their problem.

Blogger James Dixon January 17, 2020 5:35 PM  

> Lot of people probably start off smarter then they end up

IQ declines as you age. Probably due to the simple fact that everything, including your thinking speed, slows down.

Blogger Akuma January 17, 2020 5:51 PM  

"Make Bullying Great Again!"

Got to be careful with this. Certain types of people instinctual know whose smart and whose not. Doesnt matter if you have your g-diffuser on. You will be hunted for either playing dumb, acting smart, called out as manipulative, gaming THE SYSTEM, or Aspie. Though in a healthly Society Buffaloing someone falls under Bantz.

Theres a difference between bullying and ribbing/teasing/bantz/jonesing/hazing. The former is hatred infused with envy and evil.

The latter is rapport and community building. Finally, fucking with someone is Bullying mixed with Gaslighting.

Blogger sammibandit January 17, 2020 6:14 PM  

A healthy society would take it into account and help [those who fail to communicate].

"We live in a society" like this. We have massive state infrastructure geared to helping people who can't communicate or won't. Our society is not healthy. The more we try to help these people by engineering those who can communicate the more diseased our society becomes. Eg/ Common Core, Safe Schools, preferred pronouns, EEOC and disparate impact, mainstreaming the profoundly disabled, "press 1 for Spanish", etc.

Blogger Balam January 17, 2020 6:32 PM  

maniacprovost wrote:I don't want to wade into the incoherent mess of abnormal psychological classifications, but I would tend to say gammas are not sociopaths but are similar to psychopaths

You are absolutely correct that the clinical terms are a mess that changes often based on convenience over truth seeking and from this very blog we know that the psychologies are the absolute worst in reproducing their experimental results. I'll not use their terms willy nilly anymore.

The Cooler wrote:Show me an impotent sociopath/psychopath, fellas...

The gamma suffers developmental arrest, simple as that. Indeed, were the gamma to transmogrify into a socio/psychopath, he would have -- by that act alone -- overcome his gammatude.


This is an excellent start. We know that PUA says women are strongly attracted to the dark triad, psychopathy machiavellianism and narcissism. If a gamma were at least psychopathic in this sense we could expect them to have more success with women than they do.

The Cooler wrote:Nor do gammas, as a general rule, suffer Antisocial Personality Disorder, as the gamma is nothing if not remorseful, even if only for not having developed an outlet for their remorse;

Having read up on the common traits with aspd I concede and agree that they are not. The remorse part especially. I could not find any definition of aspd that include both LYING and FEAR which would have to be in any group containing gamma.

Psychopath: Definitely includes fearlessness. It's the psychopath that flicks the pitbull in the face and leaps off cliffs while laughing. Gammas are defined by their fear. Just that fact alone makes the two groups incompatible.

Blogger tublecane January 17, 2020 7:01 PM  

@97- Communication is a two-way street. I'm not a genius, but I am way smarter than a 3 year-old. When I talk to children, as I've had occasion to do, I know it's incumbent upon me to condescend to a level they can understand.

It's a fault of their's that they're incapable of normal adult conversation. But I wouldn't blame them for not following me when I'm specifically trying to make myself understood to them. That's on me. Because I should be able to do so, to some extent.

Blogger Akulkis January 17, 2020 7:26 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Akulkis January 17, 2020 8:51 PM  

@97
[Reposted. s/more/LESS in para 7]

"Communication problems are not their fault or even their problem. They are the comunicatees problem. A lack of comprehension on the others part is not the comunicators fault."

Absolutely wrong.

If I go to a foreign country, and insist on speaking only English, and not learning the local language, is the limitation on my success due to the entire country's failure to become fluent in English, or is it my fault for not learning the local language?

THE Neurolinguistic Programming (NLP) community puts it in even more concrete terms: The meaning of your communication is the results you get. If you get no response, then you have failed to communicate effectively.

I *USED* to think exactly like you.
"I'm putting the information out there -- if those dummies can't comprehend me, that's their problem."

After I graduated from college, and had to work with not just engineering types, but dummies of all kinds, it .... well, let's just say that having come across NLP-oriented USENET groups at that time was a great benefit. For example, it improved the quality of my social life immensely.

Strangely, talking to someone 40-50 IQ points below me tends to be LESS difficult than talking to someone 20 IQ points below me.

In both cases, maintaining rapport is essential. You can't talk down to people ("parent-to-child" in the transactional analysis model) unless they come to you for help. Learning to speak in different dialects is useful. However, if I were to talk to, say, fellow soldiers who are black using ghetto cant, they would probably be insulted. So, I speak to them respectfully, but using a vocabulary which they can relate to.

Don't use a 75-cent word where a 5-cent word is sufficient. Talking above someone's head when you don't have to only communicates: "see how smart I think am and how dumb I think you are", which only gets people angry with you.

And remember. The meaning of your communication is the results you get.

Just last weekend, I gave a 3-hour class to a bunch of pipeline operators on the AN/PRC-150 multiband radio use by US military forces. Over an hour devoted to signal propagation in the HF band, and all of the anomalies, inconsistencies, and what few general rules we know, so as to describe the problem of radio communications in that range of frequencies. After spending a total of another hour on that, plus space weather, solar activity, time of day, ionospheric layers, and signal waveform types, I spent only 45 minutes discussing the actual equipment and its capabilities.

Why did I do it in this order?
Because if they didn't understand the problem, then they won't understand why these problems have to be solved, therefore won't understand THAT they have to be solved, and therefore, won't do what needs to be done (button pressing and sometimes antenna adjustment) to get the radio communicating and KEEP it communicating, morning, noon, evening, and night, every day of a mission.

I COULD HAVE thrown differential equations at them. That would have been precisely useless for all but 2 people in the class (who are mechanical engineer types in the civilian world). Everything I covered, I introduced a concept, and then explained it down to the level that someone with a high school diploma and whose last science class was "general science" or "earth science" in 9th grade could understand.

Why?

Because I was not there to impress them with my knowledge. I was there to TEACH THEM how to be able to keep that radio communicating, even if they are 250 miles away from anyone who can come to their assistance to fix their problem. This means, in practical terms, in a war zone, the problem will magically "solve itself" before a patrol can be spun up to send out a contact team to help them... therefore, they have to understand it, at the level of their comprehension, how to keep their signals going to other stations on the network. With no help.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( according to the 13th Amendment, Slavery is neither Cruel nor Unusual: MSAGA ) January 17, 2020 9:29 PM  

"Also, comment on if you have ever considered that you may have Narcissistic Personality Disorder?"

the amusing thing about Narcissists is that once they find out that the NPD disorder exists, they fixate on that as the explanation for why other people ( whether neurotypical or not ) fail to do everything that the Narcissist demands of them.

how DARE you refuse to comply with the demand of the Narcissist? don't you know who he is? isn't his superiority obvious to you? who are you to disagree with his assessment of the situation?

this from a man who can't differentiate between "intelligent" and "sane".

Blogger Sir William Bradford January 17, 2020 10:16 PM  

My first thought is who in their right mind would ever respond to a letter addressed to “dear loser”.

Blogger JamesB.BKK January 17, 2020 11:30 PM  

The habit of loser ugly females and pathetic males to drive wedges into relationships is tiresome. Evidence of retarded development if carried on past the age of 14.

Comment quality just keeps improving. Insrutable.

Blogger JamesB.BKK January 18, 2020 12:28 AM  

If you can't understand it for what it is: that it's an in-joke, then you'll never be part of the in-group.

And yet none of the complainers demonstrate an observable curve following the modeled curve or acknowledge that ships do not disappear beyond the horizon as we were told on closer zoom as they go about on water that the same people insist "finds its own level" upon a curved construct. They just jump about or state non-specific objections. Weak. It is true that the answer does not matter in the slightest to success or failure other than where orthodox modernists insist and they have the ability to interfere with the non-orthodox (and Unauthorized).

I would never have considered such questions if Owen hadn't taken me there on his excellent if difficult journey. Grateful, and fortunate to have found him.

Blogger James Lovebirch January 18, 2020 12:32 AM  

@81

Owen genuinely believes there's no observable or measurable curvature of the surface of the Earth, and on that he's not wrong. It's not a clever ploy or joke.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 18, 2020 12:38 AM  

JamesB.BKK wrote:ships do not disappear beyond the horizon as we were told on closer zoom as they go about on water that the same people insist "finds its own level" upon a curved construct.
This is absolutely false. I have observed the effect myself, as you could if you went to a large body of water instead of watching youtube videos. You can not possibly be more wrong. Stop believing lies.

Blogger JamesB.BKK January 18, 2020 12:48 AM  

Snidely are you saying that all the recorded P-900 and P-1000 and laser demonstrations are lies?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 18, 2020 12:56 AM  

I'm saying that anyone who purports to prove that ships do not go below the horizon is lying. Plain and simple. They are lying. If you believe them without checking it out yourself, you are stupid. I have lived within 5 miles of the ocean most of my life. This is simple knowledge, it is not difficult to test.

Blogger JamesB.BKK January 18, 2020 1:02 AM  

Did I say I believe them? I don't think so. I stated that no one has produced a counter demonstration, as here. But I am pretty stupid nonetheless. I do intend to buy a P-1000 but have been unsuccessful so far finding one on a couple of lackadaisical attempts and maybe attach it to my telescope and check it out. Will maybe report back.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 18, 2020 1:09 AM  

Go to you local shipping port on a clear day. Find a vantage point above the wave action. Watch a ship leave with the falling tide.
I did this when I was FIVE because I read in a book and I wanted to see. if it was true.
Forget the instrument, just go look.
If you want examples, a simple Google search will suffice.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 18, 2020 1:16 AM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNGorPyX9OQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpAGXpusAiQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Akip2Ev_N8

Blogger James Lovebirch January 18, 2020 1:17 AM  

Snidely, such observations are not consistent when performed repeatedly over many days, especially when they span seasons. Some days more of a distant object is visible, other days all of it is visible. The amount obscured from the bottom virtually never matches the amount calculated from the globe's physical dimensions.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 18, 2020 1:27 AM  

Optics vary, light is bent by differing densities of air. The difficulty in using this as a metric was known to the ancient Greeks, which is why they had to use a different technique to calculate the diameter of the Earth.
On the other hand, claiming there's any doubt about the clearly visible effect is a lie. Don't believe lies.

Blogger JamesB.BKK January 18, 2020 2:38 AM  

Aren't the distances in those proofs uncertain?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 18, 2020 3:00 AM  

Are they visually uncertain? Yes. Optics is tricky as we all know, particularly over long distances with pronounced surface thermal effects. It can in fact be possible to see objects below the horizon under the right conditions.
But that uncertainty, as I said above, has been known since ancient times. Which is why you should depend on the sundial instead, which is what Eratosthenes did in effect. The uncertainty is not disproof of the effect, only of it's unreliability as a measure of distance.

Blogger SciVo January 18, 2020 4:33 AM  

Akulkis wrote:Strangely, talking to someone 40-50 IQ points below me tends to be LESS difficult than talking to someone 20 IQ points below me.

That's normal. Midwits are the worst: smart enough to know some big words, dumb enough to assume that you would use them if you knew them too.

Blogger JamesB.BKK January 18, 2020 7:45 AM  

No. The distance at which the object or any lower portion of it becomes obscured should be known and calculable. An issue is about what objects going out of visual range vs dropping down the curve looks like. Another is at what distance an object should not be observable with any tool due to obstruction by the curve. There are reported anomalies is all. Lies? Unclear at this point.

Blogger wreckage January 18, 2020 8:56 AM  

Comedians pretty much specialize in seeing the world from an odd angle. Owen is good at his job.
And the Gamma continues to be the clearest and most reliable demonstration of the Voxian SSH... although in this case the writer is either a woman or a Lambda; in fact identifying as Lambda seems to be the latest trend among the Gamma and Gamma-adjacent.

Blogger M Cephas January 18, 2020 10:09 AM  

The only thing that annoys me about the flat-earthers is that they take attention away from the real issue that's being ignored, which is that the earth is the center of mass for the entire universe.

The fact that you see a completely different set of stars in the southern hemisphere than you do in the northern hemisphere should have been enough to get people off the flat-earth bandwagon and focus on the real challenge to the mainstream narrative.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 18, 2020 1:47 PM  

JamesB.BKK wrote:There are reported anomalies is all.
The anomalies are well-known and well-understood. The science of optics and the understanding of optical distortion goes back to the literal dark ages.

Blogger Akulkis January 18, 2020 5:08 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Akulkis January 18, 2020 6:04 PM  

JamesB.BKK

You are either a credulous idiot, or a liar.

I don't know which you are, but you're at least one of the above, and possibly both.

Blogger tublecane January 18, 2020 6:27 PM  

@110- "ships do not disappear beyond the horizon...on closer zoom"

Wait, why are we zooming? You know what a horizon is, correct? It's where we *perceive* the water to meet the sky at a distance. Ships indeed do disappear over it, from bottom to top.

If you "zoom," you merely shift the horizon back.

This is like saying field goals don't exist because you physically move the goalposts back beyond the arc of each kick.

Blogger Akulkis January 18, 2020 8:23 PM  

tubalcane

Zoom does no such thing. It merely narrows the solid arc in view. The horizon itself stays in the same place.

That said, using a telephoto lens or telescope, it's easy to observe that ships "over the horizons" disappear from bottom to top.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVXsZJ39a6o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXa_UIy-Aig

Blogger JamesB.BKK January 18, 2020 8:32 PM  

Probably both. This is getting into the area per my first note this thread of it does not matter what one thinks about such things to be successful but some guys sure do get excited about enforcing orthodoxy in the sciences, jumping all around on subject matter and hurling insults and all. Who will be the first to call for intervention by the authorities and separation of parents and children? No use going into measurable refraction when the object is not a ship but a fixed geographical feature?

Blogger JamesB.BKK January 18, 2020 9:14 PM  

That was a debater's joke no? About moving goalposts? Hilarious. It is also easy to observe things disappear from bottom to top as they exit your view moving away sighted along a plane. It can be a perspective effect and also a curve rising up to obscure effect. Still no demos using measurements and observations matching models instead of estimates and assumptions and vague videos and fudge factors eg for optical distortion and refraction. Plenty of insults and intelligence deficiency shaming though. Thanks.

Blogger JamesB.BKK January 18, 2020 9:16 PM  

You must be a hoot at the office.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 18, 2020 9:30 PM  

JamesB.BKK wrote:It can be a perspective effect and also a curve rising up to obscure effect. Still no demos using measurements and observations matching models instead of estimates and assumptions and vague videos and fudge factors eg for optical distortion and refraction.
No, it cannot be a perspective effect. It cannot. Full stop.
An object disappearing over the horizon from the bottom up can ONLY be because the view is being blocked by the horizon.

If you want a much surer test, one that will erase all doubt, you will require the assistance of another person at a significant distance directly North or South of you.
In a suitably flat spot, set an upright rod, of known length. Use a plumb bob to assure it is absolutely vertical. Have your (Southern or Northern) friend do the same. Attach a cross-piece at some height from the ground, have your friend do the same. The height above ground must be exactly the same.
Now, in the middle of the day, any sunny day, you and your friend measure the distance of the shadow cast by the cross-piece from the rod.
Presuming you are both in the Northern Hemisphere, above the Tropic of Cancer, the Northern rod will have a significantly longer shadow than the southern one.
This test is deterministic. With a little math, knowledge of the exact configuration and the lattitude of test points, and time of day and day of the year, it is absolutely calculable and will not vary from the calculation.

JamesB.BKK wrote:Plenty of insults and intelligence deficiency shaming though. Thanks.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Blogger JamesB.BKK January 18, 2020 9:39 PM  

An ancient experiment described. What assumptions are required to make the result deterministic including with the maths?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 18, 2020 10:06 PM  

The assumptions are
1) that the Earth is (nearly) a sphere of a specific diameter
2) that the two test points are both on the same same side of the line which delineates the highest apparent position of the Sun in the sky, or tropic, and below the line delineated by the Sun being unable to completely clear the horizon in the dead of winter or Arctic and Antarctic cirlces
3) that the two test points are aligned directly north and south
3) that both rods are vertical as determined by the pull of gravity at the test point
4) that the height of the cross piece is the same on both rods
5) For ease and consistency of measurement, it is assumed that extreme angles of sunrise and sunset are avoided.

The hypothesis is that if the earth is spheroid, and the pull of gravity is to the center of a mass, the rods, being aligned to gravity will be at different angles to the orientation of the Sun.

Blogger Akulkis January 18, 2020 10:06 PM  

@ JamesB.BKK

" It is also easy to observe things disappear from bottom to top as they exit your view moving away sighted along a plane."

That effect goes away when using a zoom lens and a flat surface. That effect does NOT go away using a zoom lens and a curved surface.

Game
Set
Match

Blogger Akulkis January 18, 2020 10:08 PM  

"You must be a hoot at the office."

I don't suffer morons lightly.

Blogger Akulkis January 18, 2020 10:15 PM  

"An ancient experiment described. What assumptions are required to make the result deterministic including with the maths?"

Do you truly not understand basic geometry, and the properties of parallel lines and the interaction of parallel lines with line segments of a determined length intersecting said parallel lines at differnt angles?

And no, the sun is NOT close enough for the rays of the sun to be non-parallel enough to make a difference in Snidely Whiplash's modern description of an experiment conducted by Eratosthenes, if not by even earlier men.

You are not only ignorant of geometry, you are also ignorant of history.

Blogger Akulkis January 18, 2020 10:25 PM  

@JamesB.BKK

Look, captain pees-in-his-pants, here is something nobody has ever seen in the sky, ever:

https://pics.me.me/a-lunar-eclipse-according-to-flat-earthers-isnt-nature-beautiful-26579588.png

... nor any variation on it.

You are literally too stupid to be trusted with the keys to an automobile that isn't stuck on a track like at an amusement park.

Ignorance is not knowing.

STUPIDITY is having significantly more than enough of the relevant information and STILL coming to the wrong conclusion.

Blogger JamesB.BKK January 19, 2020 12:46 AM  

Full stop qualified? https://youtu.be/3qs45VQCX1Q

As is symptomatic, we have hurled back thousands of years and onward to other topics, with what is borderline unhinged grasping for all the kinds of ways stupidity can or cannot be ascertained. With lots of authority claimed. And I already acknowledged that I am stupid. The topic is the curvature and testing the model. Not all this other matter that keeps being brought up. There should be a fixed distance at which things can be observed and measured or not. At what distance with known optical effects do things disappear? Not do they are do they not?

Too much shouting on the internet here though. I'm getting the same vibe as on twitter with those red climate and tax people before I got kicked off.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 19, 2020 2:13 AM  

This distance is depenedent on the height of the object. And because it's a curve, it is not a linear ratio.
There is a web page that gives the formula.
Most ship-sized objects will go below the horizon between 10 and 20 miles away.

Blogger Jack Fleck January 19, 2020 5:49 AM  

After reading some of Vox Day's columns from 2001, and given the fact that Vox Day has gotten into Mensa, those who claim that Vox Day isn't as intelligent as he claims to be are full of it. Mensa only allows in people with IQ's of 132, so even if Vox Day were lying about having an IQ of 150, then even if we take the lowest number possible which would have allowed Vox to get into Mensa, then we still have someone who has an intelligence of at least the 98th percentile, or in other words, even if Vox were a complete liar, he could still by all reasonable measures by called smart.

Blogger Vulgar_Display January 20, 2020 10:54 PM  

The mere fact that this mental retard thought that Voxypoo was a slam dunk insult is very telling about the level of intellect being dealt with here.

There are lots of smart people out there that completely lack the grit and single minded focus required to become a genius.

Most bounce back and forth between random obsessions that change with the weather.

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