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Friday, January 24, 2020

Never going to happen

Not on the god-emperor's watch:
President Donald Trump has sent a clear message to lawmakers in the Democrat-controlled state of Virginia, warning that he will not allow them to undermine the Second Amendment rights of American citizens while he's in office. Speaking during an interview with Fox News Wednesday, President Trump warned Democrats that a gun grab "will never happen as long as I’m here."Virginia's state Assembly and Senate came under Democratic control following wins in the 2019 elections.

In conjunction with the Democrats who control the state’s executive offices, Dem officials immediately pushed forward with plans to legislatively impose strict gun control measures upon law-abiding gun-owners in the state. Virginians have been rising up in response, and on Monday, tens of thousands of gun owners and Second Amendment supporters marched on the state capitol in Richmond in opposition to the coming gun-control measures.
No wonder the Swamp is desperate to try to get him out of office. But while it's good to see that so many Virginians are willing to demonstrate and work within the political system to defend their Second Amendment rights, it's important to remember that if those efforts fail, those guns will have to be used to defend the unalienable rights of their owners.

At some point, sooner or later, the Democrats are going to call what they believe to be a bluff. And that's when we'll find out if the Tree of Liberty will survive or not.

Labels:

87 Comments:

Blogger Azure Amaranthine January 24, 2020 6:37 AM  

A tree needs its water.

Blogger Balkan Yankee January 24, 2020 6:50 AM  

Don't know if Trump will take Virginia, but given the overwhelming and organic pro-2A sentiment on display in the state, he's got a legit chance of success.

Blogger RobertDWood January 24, 2020 7:07 AM  

The organic efforts of local sheriffs staking a claim of nullification over state and federal law is very encouraging.

Not tired of winning.

Blogger Dwayne Thundergrit January 24, 2020 7:13 AM  

The democrats in VA are so fixated on their own power that I don't rule out their pushing this further in spite of what Trump or anyone else says. I'm sure they want to be the starting point for what they believe will be their great revolutionary victory over the deplorables or they'd have never gone as far as they have.

Blogger Servant January 24, 2020 7:15 AM  

Doesn't need to be Patriot blood. Quisling blood is just as good.

Blogger Johnny Reb January 24, 2020 7:15 AM  

Attendance:
22,000 according to the mainstream media.
30,000-50,000 according to the VCDL.
110,000 according to the Richmond Police Department.
Number of Virginia State Police: about 2,100.
Number of Virginia National Guard: 7500.
If gun owners in Virginia (with the aid of gun owners from other states) wanted to, they could have easily stormed the Capital Grounds and removed Northam by force. The police and the National Guard would have been able to do anything about it, so of course the Dems are scared to death. Just look at the bill Northam and his cronies just introduced that would make it illegal to "harass" government officials.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan January 24, 2020 7:21 AM  

I'd say the Civil Rights laws are ours now, but conservatives per usual retreat to their purity circles and love of spiffy silk bow ties. Which is a shame since Civil Rights laws are a huge part of 2A law/legislation at least since the unCivil War.

What is the Left going to do, retreat to States Rights? I'll take that, then I will run for immigration enforcement officer for my state and in the future historians will write "He had all the efficiency of the Einsatzgruppen but none of the compassion."

Blogger Robert Browning January 24, 2020 7:31 AM  

Somebody inside Trumps FBI did tip off the Virginia governor. Who? Why? And for what purpose?

Blogger Canada78Bear January 24, 2020 7:33 AM  

Considering this is the state with governor who didn't recall if he was the clan or black face guy in a photo I get the sick feeling they call.

Blogger ZhukovG January 24, 2020 7:37 AM  

If the Democrats have any sense they will walk back the more extreme proposals and take a more incrementalist route. That typically pacifies your normie firearms owner.

So it will be interesting to see how radicalized the Democrats have become.

Blogger An Orthodox Christian January 24, 2020 7:50 AM  

While I fear not that which a tyrannical government may do to take away our God given right to self-defense, I DO fear a Righteous Judge Who will take away our idols of steel, wood and plastic because we have not used the 2A to defend the defenseless innocents against government imposed murder since 1973. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner!

Blogger Z MAlfoy January 24, 2020 8:01 AM  

Friends very active in this in VA are telling me that 1) The local sheriffs absolutely mean it when they sign on to 2A Sanctuary County plans and 2) people are taking WV's possible invitations very seriously. My friends live in a border county, and they think this *might* be the one way to try to avoid outright fighting. No one's sure of much, though.

These 2A laws aren't the only abominations making their way through, but they're certainly getting the most press.People are on edge, at least in the rural areas.

The election results in VA were because: Felons were allowed to vote; and massive immigration, legal and otherwise. And the "Libertarian" spoiler just to make sure the Rs were swept out of office. What has been happening in VA is what originally broke me from libertarianism ~5 yrs ago. All they accomplish is what has actually happened in VA. The law abiding citizens of VA have entirely lost their legal voices.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 24, 2020 8:06 AM  

The Democrats have laid their cards on the table. Let's see what happens.

Blogger Doctor Mayhem January 24, 2020 8:09 AM  

I wouldn't put much faith on the boomers and fudds in the 2A movement though.

Americans have already been disarmed morally, spiritually, and psychologically. Physical disarmament is a mere formality.

If they start marching with guns en masse and ignoring orders to stand down, or at least have counties secede to WV, then I'll believe they're serious.

Democrats are already giving the 2A counties the bird and telling them that they're passing the laws anyways.

Blogger thalios January 24, 2020 8:25 AM  

It's not water that this particular tree needs.

Blogger jarheadljh January 24, 2020 8:26 AM  

Trump's record on 2A is a mixed bag. On the one hand he did order the ATF to illegally ban bumpstocks, which while just a toy still cost him support from the 2A community to so far get nothing back in return from whoever he was trying to appease. We may get a supreme court challenge out of that, but I haven't heard anything yet. OTH, the admin just got rid of the annual ITAR tax on gunsmiths by returning control over firearms exports to the commerce department. Solid win there.

So basically we started the Trump admin with the hope of getting the NFA1934 amended with silencers and short barreled long guns removed from NFA item status and one mass shooting later(Las Vegas) we are now in a place where the best we seem able to get is for Trump to largely do nothing publicly either way except some platitudes. Could be much worse.

As for Virginia, lived in Lynchburg for better part of a decade and there's no way Northam gets another term. The recall process there is horrendous so that's probably gonna fail, but either way he's out.

Blogger Doktor Jeep January 24, 2020 8:43 AM  

My panties go into a wad whenever I hear some boomer joke about telling the cops all their guns fell in the river or got stolen. Like they are going to BS the cops then go back to watching TV and stuffing their face. Seeing how these tyrants operate thus far is not enough?
Sooner or later the guns have to be used. Admittedly the only thing 2A has accomplished is the right to buy a gun. AE Van Vogt would say there's still much significance to that. I have first-hand experience on what happens to you if you freely start training people on how to actually use them in actual scenarios. To make a long story less spergy, they send pedo-looking cops to make off the record threats and when you tell them to come back with an actual warrant they use Talmudic interpretation of code enforcement and FEMA floodplain BS to shut you down.
In the end the old argument applies. You need a moral society. If everybody is going to be atomized and selfish, if they actually could BS the cops and then watch the neighbor get raided, complete with dog getting shot, family getting terrorized, and house getting ransacked, and then convince themselves that the neighbor just got unlucky or did something wrong to deserve it, the get eaten last scenario, then there is no point in having a gun because such a society full of people like that deserves the boot on the neck.
It's just that the people who vote for that boot out of their hatred for everything not urban douchebag getting their way does not sit well with a lot of real Americans who have simply had enough with these people, their weaponized immigrant voting Bloc, and their democracy. The VA legislation is still pushing gun control, hopefully showing boomercons and zoomercons that "protest" only works when the cathedral allows it to work.

Blogger Crew January 24, 2020 8:59 AM  

And President Trump is inspiring people on all fronts:

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/01/report-impeachment-is-driving-1000-republican-candidates-to-run-for-house-seats-this-year/

Blogger Christopher January 24, 2020 9:19 AM  

Who are these mysterious "Dem officials" who are "push[ing] forward with plans to legislatively impose strict gun control measures...."?

Why say it like that? If not to confuse or screen things?

"Legislatively" impose? What is that? Is that a lighter imposition than executive imposition? Judicial imposition? A better more legitimate imposition?

Blogger Akulkis January 24, 2020 9:25 AM  

@5

"Doesn't need to be Patriot blood. Quisling blood is just as good."

Unfortunately, the first drops have already been patriot blood. And in general, that always will be, because it's tyrants who start oppression which triggers the war, and they can't do that when they're out of power.

Blogger SemiSpook37 January 24, 2020 9:29 AM  

@16

Well, you're in luck, because he can't run in 2021. It's gotta be somebody else, as the incumbent is constitutionally barred from running for a consecutive term.

You know it's bad in VA when right leaning folks from Montgomery County, MARYLAND don't want to set foot in the Commonwealth, for as bad as things are here in the PDR of MD.

Blogger Barbarossa January 24, 2020 9:34 AM  

...there's no way Northam gets another term

Governors in Virginia are restricted to one term in office.

Blogger MisesMat January 24, 2020 9:36 AM  

Thank you for posting this! Excellent news.

Blogger Stilicho January 24, 2020 9:39 AM  

The democrats will try to identify, isolate, and neutralize the "leader" of the VA 2A movement. They will succeed in doing this, because they'll just keep identifying different people as the "leader" (or creating a patsy themselves--hi Richard Spencer!) until they accomplish their goal.

Therefore, it is imperative that the VA patriots remain independent and not beholden to any particular group or individual. I am the leader of the 2A movement and you can too!

Blogger Dan in Georgia January 24, 2020 9:46 AM  

No consecutive terms in Virginia. Otherwise Terry MacAuliffe is Governor for life

Blogger Dwayne Thundergrit January 24, 2020 9:58 AM  

@24 Interesting rationalization for keeping your head down and not organizing to help one another.

Blogger 351wsl January 24, 2020 9:58 AM  

Even more concerning for Virginians are the changes being introduced that will keep democrats in power; redistricting, voting for felons, and immigration.

Blogger papabear January 24, 2020 10:05 AM  

"it's important to remember that if those efforts fail, those guns will have to be used to defend the unalienable rights of their owners."

At least one SUT instructor living in VA recognized this...

Blogger Jeroth January 24, 2020 10:10 AM  

I can't believe Maryland might have better gun laws than Virginia in just a few weeks. Absolutely unreal.

Blogger Tars Tarkas January 24, 2020 10:15 AM  

The only compromise that should be made is the governor be allowed to resign and flee the US instead of being arrested and hung as a traitor.

I feel a lot better with Trump in defiance than the just the voters. Without political backing, the Virginia voters will not do anything. They will bitch, moan, march, many will move, but the thing they will not do without political cover from a political authority broadly recognized by the right, is call their bluff and USE the guns when the police show up to take them.

These are people who pride themselves on their respect of the law and who put blue lives matter bumper-stickers on their pickup trucks. They are the backbone of the community, not rabble rousers who would fire on law enforcement.
The question is, can Trump hold out and flat out tell the right wing not to give up their guns? Can he get on TV after a shootout where cops are shot, possibly killed and say "that patriot did the right thing"

Blogger BassmanCO January 24, 2020 10:22 AM  

Dwayne Thundergrit wrote:@24 Interesting rationalization for keeping your head down and not organizing to help one another.

Are you retarded or incapable of reading comprehension? He is saying to approach it like GamerGate, not to back down.

Blogger Boaty Bear January 24, 2020 10:32 AM  

GEOTUS is attending the March for Life this year, so there is that.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd January 24, 2020 10:41 AM  

RobertDWood wrote:The organic efforts of local sheriffs staking a claim of nullification over state and federal law is very encouraging.
I will be encouraged when those organic efforts go beyond posturing. Some sheriffs marched at Richmond the other day, so it has begun. That's nowhere near enough, though. We need to see them deputize and train most of the men in their counties, need to see them announce that state cops are excluded from their counties, and so on.

Marching is excellent, and necessary, but merely marching at the politicians is like voting at them. Again.

Blogger OneWingedShark January 24, 2020 10:45 AM  

RobertDWood wrote:The organic efforts of local sheriffs staking a claim of nullification over state and federal law is very encouraging.
It's not enough; they need to issue warrants for the arrests of the assenting lawmakers.
Now that would cause people recognize that it's not merely for show.

Johnny Reb wrote:Attendance:
22,000 according to the mainstream media.
30,000-50,000 according to the VCDL.
110,000 according to the Richmond Police Department.
Number of Virginia State Police: about 2,100.
Number of Virginia National Guard: 7500.
If gun owners in Virginia (with the aid of gun owners from other states) wanted to, they could have easily stormed the Capital Grounds and removed Northam by force. The police and the National Guard would have been able to do anything about it, so of course the Dems are scared to death. Just look at the bill Northam and his cronies just introduced that would make it illegal to "harass" government officials.

Excellent observation… though it makes me wonder what happens when they piss off people so much 'harass' isn't what the people intend.

Z MAlfoy wrote:Friends very active in this in VA are telling me that 1) The local sheriffs absolutely mean it when they sign on to 2A Sanctuary County plans.
Could you relay to them that they have the option of also issuing warrants for the arrests of the lawmakers?

Blogger Akuma January 24, 2020 10:56 AM  

"The only compromise that should be made is the governor be allowed to resign and flee the US instead of being arrested and hung as a traitor."

Assuming he was acting alone. Im 100% certain theres a more than a few Psychiatrists who need to meet the same fate. If not all of them. Well to be fair, not just Psychiatrists, but the entire Mental Health Complex.

Blogger Hammerli 280 January 24, 2020 10:58 AM  

This is an area where Trump needs to put his actions where his words are. Start arresting state-level officials for violations of people's civil rights.

Blogger Bearbrained Schemer January 24, 2020 11:05 AM  

I hope this serves as a wake up call to the voters who stayed home during these elections. If we stand by and assume that others will vote in people that believe in Americans' rights and the defense of the Constitution to local governments and municipalities, we will continue to see red States turn blue like VA did. Thank God that we were able to keep Stacy Abrams and the Democratic filth out of my home state of Georgia, or we would be in the same boat as out northeastern neighbors.

It is arguably more important to be involved in your city, county, and state, but so many only vote in Federal elections. Even more just stay home altogether. This has to stop.

The Dems and media are the best advertising we could ask for to wake the voters base up.

Trumpslide 2020

Blogger Brett baker January 24, 2020 11:06 AM  

A couple of people have done that, they are in prison.

Blogger Warunicorn January 24, 2020 11:10 AM  

"No wonder the Swamp is desperate to try to get him out of office. But while it's good to see that so many Virginians are willing to demonstrate and work within the political system to defend their Second Amendment rights, it's important to remember that if those efforts fail, those guns will have to be used to defend the unalienable rights of their owners.

At some point, sooner or later, the Democrats are going to call what they believe to be a bluff. And that's when we'll find out if the Tree of Liberty will survive or not."


This, so much this. It terrifies me to think the heartache it might bring, but I'm willing to go through with it regardless, God willing.

Blogger Warunicorn January 24, 2020 11:12 AM  

Jeroth wrote:I can't believe Maryland might have better gun laws than Virginia in just a few weeks. Absolutely unreal.

I was like, "Nothing could be worse than Massachusetts..." and then I looked at Maryland. Haha, wow. I'm counting my blessings now.

Blogger Scuzzaman January 24, 2020 11:24 AM  

Here in southern Germany 6 people have been killed by a lone nut gunman. Nobody knows how that is possible since randomly shooting people is illegal in Germany.

Blogger Akulkis January 24, 2020 11:32 AM  

@38
"The Dems and media are the best advertising we could ask for to wake the voters base up."

Let's hope that they continue on with the idea that their election result problem is fundamentally one of just needing to increase the distribution and broadcasting the message of their goals and policy proposals.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd January 24, 2020 11:32 AM  

jarheadljh wrote:On the one hand he did order the ATF to illegally ban bumpstocks, which while just a toy still cost him support from the 2A community to so far get nothing back in return from whoever he was trying to appease.
We have no idea what Trump was trying to accomplish, who he was trying to appease.
jarheadljh wrote:We may get a supreme court challenge out of that, but I haven't heard anything yet.
We need Roberts and Ginsberg to smother themselves under their pillows before this one goes to the supremes. Trump does stuff on his schedule, and so far it's working OK.

Blogger An Orthodox Christian January 24, 2020 11:40 AM  

Azure was likely referring to the quote from Thomas Jefferson: The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd January 24, 2020 11:55 AM  

Scuzzaman wrote:Nobody knows how that is possible since randomly shooting people is illegal in Germany.
No doubt he found a loophole - no True German would break a law. Ordnung uber alles!

Blogger Akulkis January 24, 2020 12:02 PM  

The Germanic sentiment that a statutory law outlawing action X *prevents* anyone from doing X continues to amaze me with the level of solipsism it demonstrates.

It's no surprised that in the U.S., the European, non-Jewish advocates for more, More, MORE gun-control laws have their roots in Germanic culture, and their ancestors immigrated after the War for Independence, whereas those from the old "Pennsylvania Dutch" (which is to say, German) stock are totally on board with the 2nd Amendment.

Blogger Duke Norfolk January 24, 2020 12:08 PM  

@33 Yes. As far as I know all that's been done is to say they'll deputize people to give them the immunity that being a LEO provides. OK, but what about everyone else?

And there's been no indication, that I know of, that any of the local authorities have talked about actively resisting the state police in the enforcement of these laws. Just basically, "We sheriffs/cops won't do it." Which a good first step. But far from sufficient.

Blogger Warunicorn January 24, 2020 12:11 PM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:Scuzzaman wrote:Nobody knows how that is possible since randomly shooting people is illegal in Germany.

No doubt he found a loophole - no True German would break a law. Ordnung uber alles!


You guys are brightening my day. xD

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 24, 2020 12:46 PM  

Dr. Mayhem...be gone, black pill coward troll.

Ominous Cowherd, do you not realize the importance of the sheriffs publicly marching with the citizens in Richmond? Cool your perfectionism. It's gradual.

Blogger timothyjander January 24, 2020 12:46 PM  

This would all be decided by the Supreme Court. Good luck with that.

Blogger Noah B. January 24, 2020 12:50 PM  

Trump's record on 2A is a mixed bag. On the one hand he did order the ATF to illegally ban bumpstocks, which while just a toy still cost him support from the 2A community to so far get nothing back in return from whoever he was trying to appease.

Recall that it was the NRA, not Trump, who resurrected the bump stock issue. After the MGM Las Vegas shooting the NRA blamed Obama for not having banned bump stocks when he had the chance. In true cuck fashion they abandoned Trump's right flank. So it shouldn't surprise anyone that the NRA is back to its usual tricks in Virginia.

Meanwhile Trump has quietly overturned some of Obama's more onerous attempts at gun control by executive fiat, including the requirement for gunsmiths to register under ITAR regulations and pay thousands of dollars in annual licensing fees above and beyond the costs of their FFL's. Trump also killed Obama's attempt to use Social Security records to disqualify people under the auspices of mental health. Then there are the ATF's rulings on pistol braces, which have opened up a whole world of weapons that are effectively SBR's without legally being classified as such. Trump at this point has a very solid record on guns, the bumpstock hiccup notwithstanding.

Blogger OneWingedShark January 24, 2020 1:34 PM  

Noah B. wrote:Recall that it was the NRA, not Trump, who resurrected the bump stock issue. After the MGM Las Vegas shooting the NRA blamed Obama for not having banned bump stocks when he had the chance. In true cuck fashion they abandoned Trump's right flank. So it shouldn't surprise anyone that the NRA is back to its usual tricks in Virginia.
Recall that the NRA is the best illustration of "controlled opposition" in action there is.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd January 24, 2020 1:43 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:Ominous Cowherd, do you not realize the importance of the sheriffs publicly marching with the citizens in Richmond? Cool your perfectionism. It's gradual.
Agreed, it's early days yet and this is an important, necessary first step. Don't anyone make the mistake of thinking these first steps are going to be enough, though.

Blogger Kiwi January 24, 2020 1:52 PM  

"At some point, sooner or later, the Democrats are going to call what they believe to be a bluff."

Trump is literally the trump card in this, and he's in the hand of the people holding guns. I played a lot of 500 in my misspent youth, and I don't see how democrats could win against that, except to get the trump card to slowly change to their hand.

I'd need a go point in place. Regardless of where Trump is, cross that and it's all on like donkey kong. Hypothetically of course.

Blogger 351wsl January 24, 2020 1:58 PM  

Noah B. wrote: Trump at this point has a very solid record on guns, the bumpstock hiccup notwithstanding.

Did you forget that Trump also came out in support of red flag laws after Parkland?

I agree with the original poster. He's a mixed bag on gun control.

His positions on other issues, most notably immigration, make up for it. Our demographics will determine our destiny.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 24, 2020 2:14 PM  

Did he actually do anything on red flag laws?

Blogger Dole January 24, 2020 2:27 PM  

The ending paragraph, well said.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd January 24, 2020 3:25 PM  

351wsl wrote:Did you forget that Trump also came out in support of red flag laws after Parkland?
Trump dangles goodies they can't have in front of the Left to madden them. This far on, it's pretty certain that support for Red Flag laws was nothing more than a dangling, unattainable goodie.

Blogger sammibandit January 24, 2020 3:33 PM  

The Germanic sentiment that a statutory law outlawing action X *prevents* anyone from doing X continues to amaze me with the level of solipsism it demonstrates.

There's a good chance that poster is using that foreign form of communication called comedy. I know it looks like we're wearing a bad human suit when we try to be funny, but give the man a bone. He stuck the delivery.

Blogger 351wsl January 24, 2020 3:33 PM  

"We must make sure that those judged to pose a grave risk to public safety do not have access to firearms and that if they do, those firearms can be taken through rapid due process. That is why I have called for red flag laws, also known as extreme risk protection orders." - Donald Trump

Shortly after Trump's remarks, Trump ally Sen. Lindsey Graham announced he and Connecticut Democratic Sen. Richard Blumenthal had reached an agreement on a federal grant program to assist with enforcing existing red flag laws and to "encourage" more states to adopt red flag laws.

raham, a South Carolina Republican, said in a statement that he spoke with Trump about the legislation and the President "seems very supportive."

His support provided a lot of cover for red state governors. Among my shooting friends and in online gun forums, there was a huge backlash of support against him. Seemed like an unnecessary blunder to me, along with the stupid bump stock ban. I think he gains nothing from it, but pisses off a very vocal and supportive group.

It's not that gun owners will go elsewhere, because there is no where else to go, but you risk them staying home and not being active in the election. I know a lot of gun guys who are single issue voters, right or wrong.

Personally, I step over the occasional turd, because the GOPE hasn't been any more supportive, and at least President Trump is doing more to protect our nation. If we don't solve immigration, it won't matter anyway. They'll be too many third worlders here voting for free shit and gun control, anyway. I just wish he'd not shit on some of his most active supporters. Maybe he's seeing the light. His comments about VA are on point. I give him credit for that.

Blogger Wazdakka January 24, 2020 3:48 PM  

Would an American kindly explain the second amendment to me.

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

They way I read it is that you would need to be part of a militia to bear arms.
I can understand why this is not argued by statists, as a number of independent militias is undesirable to singular control.

Blogger BassmanCO January 24, 2020 4:08 PM  

Wazdakka,

ANY American can be part of the Militia, in fact has the duty to be part of it when needed. and you can't be part of that without arms.

Additionally, as is mentioned in many other places, the 2nd Amendment prohibits the government from restricting firearms, it does not give any rights. It could be legally argued that all firearms restrictions go against the constitution.

One other tidbit to chew on, the 2nd Amendment was enumerated not for self-defense, but to ensure there was a means for the people to rise up against a tyrannical government.

Blogger The Cooler January 24, 2020 4:08 PM  

@61 https://infogalactic.com/info/Militia_(United_States)

Blogger 351wsl January 24, 2020 4:25 PM  

@Wazdakka

For quite some time, the statists did indeed argue that our National Guard, constituted the militia. However, reading the original commentaries of those who wrote and signed the Constitution, they clearly meant the militia to encompass "the people".

In 2008, the Supreme Court affirmed that the right belongs to individuals in the Heller Case. Since then, the statists generally don't try that argument any more.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd January 24, 2020 4:52 PM  

Wazdakka wrote:Would an American kindly explain the second amendment to me.
...
They way I read it is that you would need to be part of a militia to bear arms.

If that were the case, everyone would be able to bear arms. If you are a free man, you are part of the unorganized militia.
Wazdakka wrote:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

The first clause is explanation for the second. Strike the first clause entirely and you do not change the meaning of what remains.

If you want explanation, read the papers of the Founding Fathers. They made it very clear that the purpose was that every man have military arms, equal to or better than what the army had. The purpose, per the FF, was to enable the citizenry to kill the army and the politicians who sent it.

Blogger rikjames.313 January 24, 2020 5:46 PM  

When the usual liberals in the office start talking about taking away guns or limiting voting options, I like to point out Bush II and Obama spent trillions of dollars teaching many tens of thousands of future far right voters how an insurgency works, even when the overmasters have long duration duration killdrones orbiting.

Blogger Ransom Smith January 24, 2020 5:52 PM  

I can't believe Maryland might have better gun laws than Virginia in just a few weeks. Absolutely unreal.
You bite your tongue before I start heating up the tar.
Virginia will be just fine.

Blogger Akulkis January 24, 2020 6:00 PM  

"There's a good chance that poster is using that foreign form of communication called comedy. I know it looks like we're wearing a bad human suit when we try to be funny, but give the man a bone. He stuck the delivery."

Oh, I caught the humor. I also concluded that he's a non-German living in Germany.

I remember, about 10 years ago, when the Germans in charge of the SuSE Linux distro more than devastated their OpenSuse community (and therefore, their testbad for the commercial version of their product) with their "Orders ist orders!" attitude when 90% of their users (experienced systems administrators) told them that systemd is absolute poison to their primary audience: system administrators (doing their best to keep their machines up, with minimal uptime, and providing whatever services that the installed software is supposed to provice), side-lining the well-understood mechanisms of System V init (which only needs a 1-page manual page, and an understanding of shell scripting languages (which all Unix and Linux administrators in the professional world are more than familiar with)), and replacing it with mysterious mechanisms and a log system that spews and stores output in a non-humanly-readable format, and telling those busy administrators to go read a 300-page technical manual using non-standard jargon.

Not surprisingly, the progeniters of this software abortion (systemd), which either works perfectly, or totally defecates all over the place and crashes, is the genius of two guys who grew up in East Germany, and who have a history of breaking things, and blaming their bugs on other, existing software which worked perfectly well before they started meddling with it.

And then they (the SuSE team) actively sabotaged any work by the user community to keep the familiar methods of starting, stopping and restarting system services.

As flawed as SysV init is, it is perfectly suitable for SuSE's primary markets -- fixed servers, with more or less permanent network connections and hardware, whereas systemd is really geared for laptop (l)users.


I admire many of the accomplishments that have come out of German culture (eg: organic chemistry). But the absolute infatuation with endless rules of arbitrary mandates and prohibitions along with the overwhelming love for complex systems which go from "working perfectly" to "won't even start" without constant and incredible amounts of maintenance (and more hours required for the same maintenance task than other systems which do essentially the same job) utterly mystifies me. Especially after the love of overly complex things was a major contributor to losing WW2 and the subsequent devastation and then 2 generations of division of the nation by hostile armies.

Contrast this with the Japanese who will take an idea, and reduce the amount of volume it takes, and make it MORE reliable with LESS maintenance. Compare any year's production of the Honda Civic or Toyota Camry v.s. cars from other nations, ESPECIALLY *ANY* German car, aimed at a similar market. A friend of mine had a modern VW Beetle (with a water-cooled engine in the front).

Replacing the cooling system thermostat took 5 hours of labor. This is a 5-15 minute job on any non-German wheeled vehicle, depending on how far your tools are from where you park your car. This is literally 60x more complicated than it should be. And the Beetle is supposed to be an economical car for people who don't have a lot of money, or 5 hours of time to replace a $5 part which needs to be changed every 150,000 km or so.

Blogger Unknown January 24, 2020 6:06 PM  

@16

Virginia governors can only serve one term. So Northam will never get a second term anyway.

Blogger Akulkis January 24, 2020 6:27 PM  

"They way I read it is that you would need to be part of a militia to bear arms."


The first 10 amendments were added, out of an original 12, in a "Bill of Rights." (One of the remaining two -- stipulating that no sitting Congress can vote itself a pay raise, eventually passed over 200 years later). The newly, uncontestedly sovereign states were adamant that the British police state not be replaced with a new American police state.

So, a "Bill of Rights" was proposed, specifically to contain the government, and expand the rights of the people.

Militias in the Americas have often had sponsorship at the local or state level. In the 1800's, the state militias were re-organized as the National Guard, which is governed by the National Guard Bureau, under the Department of War (since renamed the Department of Defense).

IF your reading were the one meant, that would mean that the National Guard (i.e. the government) has the right to keep and bear arms (which are not taken home by guardsmen, but locked up in arms rooms in government buildings).

This would turn the meaning of the purpose for the 2nd Amendment on its head.

The American War for Independence was fought and won primarily by PRIVATELY OWNED firearms (including most of the cannons, howitzers, and mortars, too).

To an American, with an understanding of the War for Independence, and how it was fought and where the arms, ammunition, and other equipment came from, the reading as an individual right is obvious.

Additionally, look at the structure of the Amendment.

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Let's change it to a symbolic represenation:

"X, the right of Y shall not be infringed"

X is a subordinate clause. It doesn't even have to be true.

Let me show you, by replacing the subordinate clause (X) with one which is utterly ridiculous:

"The moon being made of ice cream and peanut butter with cat litter sprinkles, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Lastly, "THE PEOPLE" means people. In the United States, militias have a history of being associated with government.

Read ALL of Amendments 1-10.
Print them out, and then find and mark with a highlighter marker every occurrence of the term "the people," and see if they would make sense to mean anything other than "any member of the populace."

To read it to mean that only militia members (overwhelmingly agents of the government) have the right to keep and bear arms, while every OTHER use of the word "THE PEOPLE" means individual members of the populace turn the term "the people" into "whatever group we feel like recognizing at the moment"

This completely demolishes any reading of the 2nd Amendment as what our gun-grabbers like to say is "a collective right" (a legal theory which, by the way, they have never used for ANY other purpose other than trying to remove the rights of both purchasing and carrying weapons).

I hope this clarifies it for you.

Blogger Akulkis January 24, 2020 7:54 PM  

One last thing. A federal law, which in one form or another, goes all the way back to the very beginning of the federal government under this Constitution defines "the militia" as all able bodied males between the ages of (if I recall correctly) 16 and 60.

The federal definition (the upper and lower ages may have changed at some time) passed by people a Congress which was well aware of the arguments for this Amendment, and that it passed by the unanimous vote of representatives who had been carefully selected, and instructed, by the legislatures of their respective states.

This amendment, like the other 9 of the first 10 Amendments, having been ratified by the Constitutional Convention by unanimous vote of the States (13-0) at that time, and obviously, agreed to by the 37 others which have joined the Union since then* is one which has been unanimously ratified by every single State in the Union.

* as admittance to the Union requires a territory or state applying for entry to the Union to ratify the Constitution and all amendments previously ratified by the existing states up to the date of that territory's legislature voting to ratify the Federal Constitution (you can't join us if you don't agree to the rules which all of the rest of us have already agreed to follow).

The states were all, well, terrified of a standing army. They had just finished 8 long years of fighting against one, which had left what was still the contemporary equivalent of a "third world nation" very much devastated. (For example, the closest thing to a paved road in colonial America were some cobblestone or bricked streets around docks and market districts. There was not a single paved highway throughout the land, whereas the Romans had paved thousands of miles of roads, not only in Italy, but even in England.)

The states were impoverished. Many could barely afford to pay their legislators, governors and and judges, let alone pay for a state militia sizeable enough to counter a federal standing army. Therefore, they turned to the militia as a dual-edged solution.

1) A well-armed militia of the whole populace could overwhelm any standing army which the Federal government could put into the field if the Federal government were to go out of control

2) It doesn't cost the state a single penny if the citizens purchase and keep their own firearms, whereas state owned firearms need to be stored in secure facilities (to prevent them from being the targets of organized raids) and the state also brings upon itself the additional burden of paying for weapons upgrades, or even replacement as technology improved. (Note: hand-cannon fired by a hand-applied "slow match" -> "matchlock" -> wheellock -> snaplock -> snaphance -> doglock -> flintlock).

Blogger Damelon Brinn January 24, 2020 8:31 PM  

They way I read it is that you would need to be part of a militia to bear arms.

I don't think you read it that way, because it doesn't say that at all. You've just heard that over and over.

Imagine if it said, "Candles being necessary to the enjoyment of birthday cake, the right to own candles shall not be infringed." Would you conclude that you're only allowed to possess candles if you're at a birthday party?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 24, 2020 9:58 PM  

The National Guard was established by the Dick Act in 1903, and the original purpose was to provide a more ata le source of recruits to the Army in case of invasion. The militia/NG conflation came later.

Blogger Johnny Reb January 24, 2020 10:12 PM  

“I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers.”
– George Mason
The Founding Fathers intended for every able-bodied man (trained from a young age in the use of arms) to be the militia.
Additionally, D.C. vs. Heller case, SCOTUS ruled that the 2nd Amendment also guaranteed the right of the people to own firearms for purposes other than milita service.

Blogger Akulkis January 25, 2020 12:54 AM  

The Heller opinion also makes note of the way the Scottish were abused (both as individuals and as a country) by the English after the English disarmed them.

Blogger sammibandit January 25, 2020 1:39 AM  

I also concluded that he's a non-German living in Germany.

Was it because he didn't say which state? I find most (Southern) Germans, when speaking to a general audience state which state they're of. There's more of a belonging to the nation that makes up the state than to Germany itself. I.E. I'm Bavarian or Swabian, or even Hessian in this case. I still meet people who identify as Prussian.

My brother went to German texts from the 1800s and translated them for his Masters in organic chemistry. Lots of the work on oils hadn't been translated.

But you just described VW without meaning to describe VW before you brought up VW. Needless complexity, I totally agree, is present. If you think Ford is silly for needing it's own wrenches, VW is doubly so for needing it's own specific tools for certain jobs! Only the Swedes match them in similar terms, but those are luxury class vehicles.

Blogger Scuzzaman January 25, 2020 1:54 AM  

Regarding the bill of rights, there was controversy over them because many thought that identifying specific rights reserved to the people would lead to the political class claiming that only those specific rights adhered to the people.

Time has proven this concern valid but of course it’s the nature of that class to twist everything to its own advantage. No doubt they’d have done exactly the same with the original text of the Constitution, since they have in fact done exactly that, as well.

It’s not the words that constrain those who would rule over you, it’s the shared insistence of the people that those words have definite meaning which they will not allow to be perverted.

Destroying the cohesion of shared values is the very purpose of open borders immivasion.

See also Frederick Douglass.

A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box
~ Frederick Douglass

Blogger Akulkis January 25, 2020 3:31 AM  

@77

"I also concluded that he's a non-German living in Germany.


Was it because he didn't say which state?


"Here in southern Germany 6 people have been killed by a lone nut gunman. Nobody knows how that is possible since randomly shooting people is illegal in Germany."

It just has the tone of an outsider speaking about the locals living around him.

1st. If he was one of them, he would have worded it differently, for example: "None of us knows how ... "

2nd. In 7 years of reading comments on this blog, I've never seen him use any of the sorts of phrasing or odd word ordering that tip off when the writer isn't a native speaker of the language, the most common and obvious being
a question in the form "[X]es are [Y]?" as opposed to the standard English format "Are [X]es [Y]?"

There are peculiarities to the English language which belie those who are not native speakers, both in the spoken word and in writing, even if they have learned a vocabulary of thousands of words.

This is mainly because English is a fusion of 4 languages:

Barythonic (the original Celtic languages of the British Isles)
Latin
proto-Germanic
French*
+ a smattering of Greek words which are used according to Greek grammar
(ex. octopus => octopi, not octopuses),
while only SOME Latin words are used according to Latin grammar.

English in principle has one of the simplest grammars compared to other natural langauges, in which simple word order and helper words determine, for example the instrumental case (what object was used by the subject to carry out the action... Harry hit Bill with a bat... "bat" is the instrument.. in man cases, bat would be modified in a particular way to indicate that it is neither the subject (the one doing the hitting) nor the object (what or who got hit), but instead, what was used to carry out the act of hitting). English just uses a preposition ("with" or "by") as a helper word, and does away with the declinations found in so many other languages in which word order is much more fluid, and so declinations are essential to sort out Who/what did the action (to whom/what) (using what) (from what/where) (into/towards whom/where) and even case(s) for other prepositions not covered already.

That being said, although the general rules of English grammar are extremely simple (as compared to everything except for Spanish as spoken by Aztecs living around the northeastern coast of Mexico), English also has more exceptions to the rules than any other language.

On top of that, in most languages, the exceptions are part of a regular pattern, but in English, many of the exceptions are completely random, or the rule is guided by the fact that the associated words all come from a particular other language (as noted about the Greek words above... somewhat consistent, and yet, the Latin words are extremely inconsistent). And of course, there are exceptions to the usage of verbs and adjectives, which, similarly, follow no pattern, and are more or less random.

Oh, and there were some Norwegians who landed in northern England... around York and in Northumbria, which also had an impact on the language.

And now I'm totally tired of typing parenthesis, so I'm glad I'm done covering all that.

* primarily in the form of pronunciation rules which mangle the form of many words, particularly those which came into the language through the German tribes, but which are cognate across the whole of Europe from the Atlantic/Mediterranean Romance langauges all the way east through the Slavic languages all the way to the Urals. Only French and English pronounce the names of the months of January, June, and July with an initial "zh" sound, whereas in all other languages, these 3 months begin with a "Ya-" or "Yu-" sound.)

Blogger Wazdakka January 25, 2020 3:53 AM  

Thank you for the responses on the American constitution. It does make more sense now.

Blogger Scuzzaman January 25, 2020 7:33 AM  

You could have just asked.

I’m a New Zealander, living in Germany for the last 12 years.

But I have to ask; was that really the most pertinent aspect of my comment?

The point I was trying to make is that, in spite of the idiotic pretenses of the left, the law prevents nobody from doing anything, ever. It is only a threat to attempt detection of a breach, attempt apprehension of the breaker, and attempt punishment of the apprehended. It fails regularly in all three phases.

You are free. Your freedom is God-given. You must choose your own actions. Nobody else can do it for you, although many try to convince you otherwise.

Of course, you also are not free of the consequences of your choices.

Blogger Avalanche January 25, 2020 8:13 AM  

@10 "take a more incrementalist route. That typically pacifies your normie firearms owner."

I keep wondering -- granted not seriously -- if Northam is actually one of ours! Talk about arousing the apathetic on our side! Talk about providing hope and a sense of 'tribe' to gun owners -- and to 2A supporters without guns -- across the country. "I'm NOT alone! Look at 100k of "me!" in just one city, in just one state, showing up in person, even at the threat of boogaloo. The future DOES belong to me!"

Whew, an enemy in the midst of making a mistake!

Blogger Avalanche January 25, 2020 8:29 AM  

@36 "This is an area where Trump needs to put his actions where his words are. Start arresting state-level officials for violations of people's civil rights."

I keep hoping for an EO that denies all residents of states like NY and CA, which give driver's licenses to illegals, the ABILITY to vote in any national elections. It could perhaps allow voting if you show up at the polls with a current U.S. passport; you know, actual, valid identification!

Plus, REFUSE to accept some District Court's pretense that they can rule for the whole country; then drag feet getting the EO into the Supreme Court, and hope the corpse of RBG is outed before it reaches them? ({sigh} A girl can hope?)

Blogger RobertDWood January 25, 2020 9:24 AM  

These rallys and marches are a bit like the Entmoot. The people forget their strength until they gather together, and then find they are strong and not alone.

Virginia waits for a Treebeard to stumble upon the work of Saruman, but such a call to arms only works if the called know they are strong.

Put the black pill down, the Saxon begins to stir.

Blogger sammibandit January 25, 2020 2:30 PM  

Thank you.

2nd. In 7 years of reading comments on this blog, I've never seen him use any of the sorts of phrasing or odd word ordering that tip off when the writer isn't a native speaker of the language, the most common and obvious being
a question in the form "[X]es are [Y]?" as opposed to the standard English format "Are [X]es [Y]?"


It's neat we notice different things but arrive at the same conclusion. Ofc I had to revise my initial reading since the wording didn't tip me off.

Oh, and there were some Norwegians who landed in northern England... around York and in Northumbria, which also had an impact on the language.

The funny thing about Scandis is what belongs to whom depends on who you ask. This is an ancient pastime and is formulaic at this point. Some might say they were Danes who came to those areas.

There's rules to this as well and they're largely modified by the audience. If Swedes are present around Danes you'll get a different answer than if they're not. And if Danes are present around Norweigians you'll get a different answer than if they're not. Once that's sorted you can then talk about who has a mouth full of potatoes when they're talking (the Swedes).

Blogger sammibandit January 25, 2020 2:38 PM  

You could have just asked.

I’m a New Zealander, living in Germany for the last 12 years.

But I have to ask; was that really the most pertinent aspect of my comment?

The point I was trying to make is that, in spite of the idiotic pretenses of the left, the law prevents nobody from doing anything, ever. It is only a threat to attempt detection of a breach, attempt apprehension of the breaker, and attempt punishment of the apprehended. It fails regularly in all three phases.


Please excuse us. That wasn't kind.

YMMV but what sticks out to me in your original comment is that the law isn't followed. Ordnung ist Ordnung, order is order.

Blogger Scuzzaman January 26, 2020 1:14 AM  

Not offended, bemused.

Blogger Monotonous Languor January 26, 2020 3:33 AM  

Every gun owner on the right should define their trigger point, i.e., exactly what is the one irredeemable act that will finally incite them to direct military action against the left? If the honest answer is “nothing”, then they might as well turn in their guns now. Without a predefined trigger point, gun owners are just another frog in the slowly boiling pot. If they wait until the police are at the door, it will be far too late.

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