Friday, January 03, 2020

Not a good start to the year

It seems unlikely that the assassination of a general from a country with whom the United States is not at war is going to end well for Americans:
President Donald Trump has ordered an airstrike that killed Revolutionary Guard General Qassem Soleimani, the powerful head of Iran's elite Quds Force, at Baghdad International Airport, the Pentagon confirmed.

The strike also killed Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, the deputy commander of Iran-backed militias in Iraq known as the Popular Mobilization Forces, which were responsible for the recent attack on the U.S. embassy in Baghdad, officials said.

Tehran has vowed 'crushing' vengeance for Soleimani's death, an extremely popular figure at home, the country's highest ranking general and responsible for shaping Iranian foreign policy throughout the Middle East.

A Pentagon statement issued to late Thursday, Washington DC time, said: 'At the direction of the President, the U.S. military has taken decisive action to protect U.S. personnel abroad by killing Quasem Soleimani.'
The United States has nearly two million Iranian residents living inside its borders. I tend to doubt most of them are more loyal to President Trump and the U.S. military than the Iranian people, which is why I am concerned that the next stage of the USA's Syracuse Expedition may have just begun.

It's particularly disappointing because the president had been doing such a good job of refusing to expand the needless imperial wars up until now. Perhaps the strike was legitimately justified, but given the last 18 years of costly, pointless, and mostly unsuccessful war, that also appears less than likely.

Certainly the Iraqis don't appreciate the action.
The caretaker leader of Iraq's protest-challenged government, Adil Abdul Mahdi, said the US assassination operation was a "flagrant violation of Iraqi sovereignty" and an insult to the dignity of his country. He stressed that the US had violated the terms under which American troops are allowed to stay in Iraq with the purpose of training Iraqi troops and fighting the jihadist organization Islamic State. 
UPDATE: 'Due to heightened tensions in Iraq and the region, the US Embassy urges American citizens to heed the January 2020 Travel Advisory and depart Iraq immediately. US citizens should depart via airline while possible, and failing that, to other countries via land.'

Despite all the announcements and theatrics, I can't help but observe that an identification reportedly based on a well-known ring could be faked rather easily. It would not shock me if Soleimani were to unexpectedly surface in the future.



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Blogger General Grudge January 03, 2020 4:33 AM  

You're probably right about this and I fear the same but this president has surprised me before when I assumed he was going to totally sell out to the military industrial complex and given the appearance of war while actually drawing back. I hope he continues to do so here.

Blogger The CronoLink January 03, 2020 4:36 AM  

Can this be considered a disproportionate response to the attack to the embassy? Was this (((egged on)))?

Blogger Sargent.matrim January 03, 2020 4:50 AM  

I hope his next move is to call a withdrawal out of the tar pit that is the Middle East.

Blogger McChuck January 03, 2020 4:52 AM  

The Iraqi government protests US use of force against Iranian soldiers, but not the Iranian use of force against American diplomats.

We know whose side they're on, and it ain't ours. Of course, they were never on our side, even when we were propping up their government. Since we (mostly) left, Iran is the caretaker of a deeply dysfunctional Iraq.

Blogger McChuck January 03, 2020 4:56 AM  

@2 CronoLink - You attack our embassy/consulate, you draw back a bloody stump. If that's not the rule, then you get Tehran 1979 and Benghazi 2012 over and over again.

Sovereignty is force. No force, no sovereignty.

Blogger Zander Stander January 03, 2020 5:00 AM  

And maybe so it begins. They might get their Iran war after all.

Blogger Dark glasses Woody January 03, 2020 5:07 AM  

God bless the Iranian people.

Blogger Shane Bradman January 03, 2020 5:09 AM  

The eye for an eye doctrine causes more conflicts than in ends. The air strikes were not a proportionate response to Iraqi activity and killing the Iranian General was not a proportionate response to the victimless embassy attack.

Blogger Ferdinand January 03, 2020 5:11 AM  

Not to defend Trump for this very dangerous decision, but most of the blame probably lies on his military and secret service advisors. They are still in the mindset that America can just invade sovereign countries without consequence or kill their military leaders in airstrikes without any retribution. It is about time the american military gets a real bloody nose, but this bloody nose might start off WW3.

Blogger VD January 03, 2020 5:16 AM  

The Iraqi government protests US use of force against Iranian soldiers, but not the Iranian use of force against American diplomats.

Iran didn't invade them this time. The USA did. The great accomplishment of the US military occupation is to have brought two bitter enemies together against the USA.

Blogger Kraemer January 03, 2020 5:18 AM  

I tend to doubt that President Trump had to personally authorize this strike. I could be wrong, but the US forces in Iraq are actively engaging ISIS, so they can airstrike stuff without asking the WH. It's possible that Trump found out about the assassination after the fact. Or am I completely off the mark here?

Blogger God Emperor Memes January 03, 2020 5:20 AM  

Well, perhaps the Iraqis would care to explain why that terrorist was in Baghdad in the first place? Perhaps they'd also care to explain why they did exactly nothing to stop the embassy attacks?

Blogger RomanCandle January 03, 2020 5:27 AM  

I tend to agree with @5McChunk interpretation: Iran violated American sovereignty with the embassy attack, and Trump launched a legitimate reprisal on the man who coordinated it. There are many examples of the US rushing needlessly into a Mideast conflict, but it's hard to ignore a direct attack on an embassy.

Of course, I could be wrong. The second and third level repercussions could outweigh whatever weaknesses we'd project by ignoring the embassy attack. Trump was basically left with no good options, and I think he picked the least bad one here. Time will tell.

Blogger The Cooler January 03, 2020 5:37 AM  

These dissociative neocon fugues Trump occasionally embarks upon are... embarrassing.

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling January 03, 2020 5:44 AM  

Rumor has it that "Member of Parliament Hadi Al Ameri and leader of Iraq’s Political Party Asaib Ahl al-Haq, Qaiz al Khaizali" have been detained by US Marines. At least one of them is said to have been involved in the recent actions against Americans in Iraq.

Assassinating the head of the Quds Force is BIG, he's absolutely not a good guy, but this is a significant escalation. As some have noted before this happened, Trump isn't Jimmy Carter, supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei shouldn't have taunted Trump by saying we couldn't do anything. They should be also taken aback by our knowledge of where Soleimani was, and rethinking how they could assume his being in Iraq right now was safe.

Blogger Timmy3 January 03, 2020 5:51 AM  

The Democrats are now against war with Iran. So Trump will do what he always will and there won’t be war with Iran. Iran will escalate until it no longer wants to. This is just another response to a response.

Blogger VD January 03, 2020 5:53 AM  

Perhaps they'd also care to explain why they did exactly nothing to stop the embassy attacks?

Why should they? Iceland didn't stop them either.

Blogger Noraekard January 03, 2020 5:54 AM  

Are you actually retarded enough to retarded enough to regard one of the tip ranking generals in a country as a terrorist? Are you mentally challenged or delusional? Are you aware that the recklessness in which the U.S. designates it's targets as terrorists is a large reason why it is hated in the Middle East.
You're an idiot and you don't have the slightest clue what Trump just did. He is uniting the Shia forces in Iraq, Syria, and Iran against him.

Blogger Noraekard January 03, 2020 5:55 AM  

Your reading on this is seriously inadequate. There is going to be hell to pay for this horrible, horrible, blunder.

Blogger Noraekard January 03, 2020 5:58 AM  

You're seriously delusional if you don't think this was a serious overreaction on Trump's part. This is s MASSIVE blunder, and I'm surprised so many on here are praising this. We are probably guaranteed for a warning Iran, now.

Blogger Lazarus January 03, 2020 5:58 AM  

He stressed that the US had violated the terms under which American troops are allowed to stay in Iraq

That's so cute, they think they have a voice in the matter.

The US has violated the terms and conditions. Kick them out, I say.

Blogger Slippin JImmy January 03, 2020 5:59 AM  

As always with President Trump let's wait 48 hours and see how this plays out.

Blogger Vaughan Williams January 03, 2020 6:03 AM  

I agree with McChuck. Trump did what had to be done. Like everything else he does, wait 3 days. Also, think of this as a fork in chess; if war is declared, impeachment is iced until it is over. Brilliant master move.

Blogger SciVo January 03, 2020 6:06 AM  

Okay, I'll play the dummy here. So Iranians attacked an American embassy in Iraq, and we killed an Iranian general in Iraq, presumably directing the attack on our putative soil.

So, what exactly is the problem here again?

Yes, we have a lot of Persians here that are entirely disloyal. Trump did something completely justified. If it provokes the hostile aliens in our midst, would it not be better to do that sooner than later?

Blogger VD January 03, 2020 6:09 AM  

So Iranians attacked an American embassy in Iraq.

No, Iraqis attacked an American embassy in Iraq.

Blogger Rajadog20 January 03, 2020 6:11 AM  

Something high value and with potentially volatile consequences this would likely need the president's approval. What general would bomb the general of a country you are not at war with?

Blogger Noraekard January 03, 2020 6:13 AM  

Excuse my spelling errors. I'm on my phone.

Blogger Noraekard January 03, 2020 6:16 AM  

I don't understand why people don't understand this.
Shia muslims in Iraq are supporting Iran now. This was a horrific mistake. We are beginning to see a unified force on the ground and the U.S. won't have any proxies to use as occupying forces. We're going to need a lot of boots on the ground to stabilize Iraq.
Neocons are so retarded.

Blogger Noraekard January 03, 2020 6:19 AM  

Did you miss the part where we assassinated a general who was considered a war hero by Shia muslims worldwide? Designating a terrorist causes us to gain legitimacy among the simpletons in America, but it causes us to LOSE legitimacy in the middle East where it actually matters. We won't be able to form a ground base. Also, what official will work with us? We're rogue's who are willing to designate anyone a terrorist.

Blogger Akulkis January 03, 2020 6:19 AM  

Legally, the attack on our embassy is an act of war. NOBODY should be surprised that the reaction was killing the leaders -- least of all those who are associated that act.

Iran has a history of this sort of nonsense. What will be interesting is whether the Iranians will fire on US Navy ships in the Persian Gulf. If not, then most likely this will wind down rather quickly. If the Iranians do attack the US Navy or other shipping in the gulf, then everything could get out of control in a spiral of escalation.

Blogger Beardy Bear January 03, 2020 6:22 AM  

@23 Impeachment was D.O.A.

We, the People, do not consent to war with Iran.

Blogger SciVo January 03, 2020 6:25 AM  

VD wrote:No, Iraqis attacked an American embassy in Iraq.

Oh. I believe the normal response to that is to say, either you don't want us here or you don't have control over your own country, so we're going to leave now.

Blogger Sillon January 03, 2020 6:25 AM  

God Emperor Memes wrote:Well, perhaps the Iraqis would care to explain why that terrorist was in Baghdad in the first place? Perhaps they'd also care to explain why they did exactly nothing to stop the embassy attacks?

Nice try shlomo.

Blogger Sillon January 03, 2020 6:26 AM  

The Cooler wrote:These dissociative neocon fugues Trump occasionally embarks upon are... embarrassing.

Like @11 I doubt this was Trump's doing.

Blogger Lazarus January 03, 2020 6:28 AM  

He is uniting the Shia forces in Iraq, Syria, and Iran against him.

I didn't know they were squabbling about it before this.

Blogger Rek. January 03, 2020 6:28 AM  

On the other hand an airstrike on Ghislaine Maxwell would have been so much fun.

Blogger tublecane January 03, 2020 6:33 AM  

@24- Exactly the problem would be why do we care about Iraq, why did the embassy get attacked, what is going on over there, and why are we risking war with a country that can fight back, especially one allied with the world's other two superpowers?

Why do we have no Grand Strategy, and just wtf?

Blogger tublecane January 03, 2020 6:38 AM  

The Sicilian Expedition, ridiculous as it may appear, was accompanied by a great ebullience from the Athenian population. And it was a great undertaking which in the midst of a generation+ war consumed great resources in men, resources, and wealth. Way more, proportionally, than we have dedicated to the War on Whatever.

The disaster of course contributed to Sparta's eventual victory and occupation of Athens. However, Sparta's time on top was much shorter-lived. They weren't even ready to deal with gold.

Athens rose again in power status after being sacked. Something which the U.S. shall never do after its fall.

Blogger Brett baker January 03, 2020 6:39 AM  

It was however, a proportionate response to Shia attacks on US troops that have occurred in the past.

Blogger VD January 03, 2020 6:42 AM  

Legally, the attack on our embassy is an act of war.

Legally, the USA has committed acts of war on dozens of countries and has been repeatedly found guilty of violating "international law". Are you sure you want to play the "legally" card?

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( according to the 13th Amendment, Slavery is neither Cruel nor Unusual: MSAGA ) January 03, 2020 6:48 AM  

21. Lazarus January 03, 2020 5:58 AM
That's so cute, they think they have a voice in the matter.

did we say we were going to constrain ourselves with regards to X?

did we constrain ourselves with regards to X?

then his complaint is legitimate.

otoh, he did nothing with his US trained and supported troops to aid or protect the US embassy.

thus, the answer should be clear:
we have been informed that we are violating the terms and conditions under which the Iraqi government permits us to take military actions.

we should immediately close the embassy, withdraw troops from Iraq and cut off all aid.

28. Noraekard January 03, 2020 6:16 AM
Shia muslims in Iraq are supporting Iran now.

you think they weren't before?

Saddam didn't get along with Iran because he made pretensions of being a secular dictator ( the Ba'ath parties are the Arab / ME communist orgs ) while Iran was an overtly Shariah state.

Iraqi Shia will have a natural affinity for a Shariah state run by Shia mullahs such as Iran. that's why Saddam spent so much time suppressing them at the same time that he spent warring with Iran.

Blogger Robert Browning January 03, 2020 6:48 AM  

Stay away from NYC.

Blogger SciVo January 03, 2020 6:54 AM  

Rek. wrote:On the other hand an airstrike on Ghislaine Maxwell would have been so much fun.

So silly. Using "enhanced interrogation" to learn everything she's able to reveal? Now that would tickle my funny bone.

Blogger Karen took the Kids January 03, 2020 6:59 AM  

Interesting that people are talking about legality. That's gone out the window a long time ago if it ever even existed. The US has been occupying the Middle East in some form for decades so what do they expect. I'd like to see a genuine justification for this besides the constant Israel memes but this just looks like a disproportionate response on the wrong country. Americans will suffer because of these warped ideas of justice. Get the troops the fuck out of there and stay gone.

Blogger Bernard Korzeniewicz January 03, 2020 6:59 AM  

The local war customs worry me.
India and Pakistan may dance the wardance but both sides know the rules.
USA showed it does not care about rules...
Iran will respond in some flashy way, or they will be seen weak.

Blogger Monotonous Languor January 03, 2020 7:03 AM  

This is why it's best to stay out of the Mideast altogether. Trying to determine who did what to whom, and who is on whose side, is an exercise in futility. It's all tribalism and opportunistic, temporary alliances. Even if you get a handle on it, it can change on a moment's notice. With any luck, Trump has thought ahead about 4 chess moves. In which case, he'll have a way to extricate himself and the US before things get any hotter.

Blogger Vaughan Williams January 03, 2020 7:11 AM  

Bill Clinton got his impeachment delayed on Dec 16,1998 when he ordered an airstrike on Iraq.

Blogger Peter January 03, 2020 7:11 AM  

1. This 1000% Trumps doing, its his style. He knows if he gets repeat of Tehran that he is done with a whole generation of voters.

2. Remember number 1 rule of trouble at home.. start trouble somewhere else. Clinton did the same thing. Wag the dog.

3. Victory is how you define it. In regards to kill ratio the US has been extremely victorious in the various conflicts. The failure was thinking you could build countries thru war, you cant unless you completely destroy the country like in ww2.

4. If you know you are going to eventually have to deal with an enemy, why wait until they are strong. Iran has had free hand too long. The next escalation can only go upwards and theres a limited number of higher level targets in Iran.

5. It sends a message that will be understood in other countries.

You wanted a nationalist president. This is what an america first policy looks like in 2020.

I think this helps Trump. He just secured the votes of everyone who lived thru Jimmy Carters presidency.

Blogger Lazarus January 03, 2020 7:13 AM
‏ @khamenei_ir
5h5 hours ago

We congratulate Imam Mahdi (‘a.j.) & Soleimani’s pure soul& condole the Iranian nation on this great martyrdom. He was an eminent example of a person trained in Islam. He spent all his life in struggling for God. Martyrdom was the reward for his tireless efforts over the years.

Blogger Doktor Jeep January 03, 2020 7:16 AM  

Bomb a general, but retreat. The neocons might be too busy popping champagne corks to hear a withdrawal.

Blogger maniacprovost January 03, 2020 7:24 AM  

Oh no, I hope Iraq doesn't request our troops leave. That would be terrible.

The incident itself is good, because we finally retaliated in a timely fashion against something close to the right target, instead of our usual policy of showing weakness when attacked and aggression against random brown people.

The consequences may be terrible. What we want is
slightly higher oil prices
no Iran-led expansionist caliphate
Troops out of the Middle East
Reduce foreign aid

We don't need to fight ISIS, because the brutal dictators that inevitably rule every country in the ME can do a better job at no cost to us.

I'm too ignorant to predict how this will affect our wants. It could possibly set up Trump to withdraw more troops while on a high note, but we all know Iran will shoot itself in the foot by launching some kind of attack.

Blogger Doktor Jeep January 03, 2020 7:29 AM  

In my best grabbler voice, I would say we didn't commit any acts of war per say. Depends on what war means.
Talmudic mode....

Blogger Akulkis January 03, 2020 7:32 AM  

Baghdad isn't in Iceland, therefore, the Icelanders have no obligation to protect the embassies in Baghdad. On the other hand, Iraq is fully obligated to protect all embassies in Iraq.

The fact that they didn't even send some crowd-control police implies complicity. The host nation is ALWAYS obligated to protect the outside perimeter of all embassies within its borders, at least up to the use of small arms, no matter how unpopular the local embassy may be with local factions.

Also, all nations are obligated to shutdown militias of their own citizens attacking sovereign territory of another nation.

Without that obligation, the entire diplomatic structure gets shaky -- like removing the rock from the foundation, and leaving the entire structure resting on sand.

An example from history:
In 1837-38, there were some rebellions in Upper Canada (Ontario) and Lower Canada (that parts east of Niagra Falls) in a brief, failed attempt to start up a revolution. Militia units from recruited from sympathetic US citizens in and around Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo and other localities extending all the way to Vermont, under the name The Hunter's Lodge, with a structure similar to the Masonic lodges. Most of them sent men into Canada, and a good number were in direct conflict with the Redcoats.

Because we (as a nation) didn't want war with the British, US army posts along the border sent out units who rounded up all of the participants they could find. The last action in the rebellions was the Battle of Windsor. About 500~600 of the Michigan and Ohio based militia camped north of Toledo seized a steamer, and used it to land 135 men a few miles north of Windsor, who then burned down a store, took the soldiers guarding it as prisoners, and killed a Surgeon from the 32nd Foot, before moving on towards the town (pop. 300) of Windsor. The raid was initially dispersed by a combined force of British regulars, and Canadian loyalist militia, including some Indians on horseback, while the U.S. government sent a steamer with armed U.S. troops to round up whatever U.S. citizens they could find and remove them from Canada.

The U.S. government then blocked a second attack. This provoked a public resolution by the Hunter's Lodge members decrying the U.S. government for taking arms against U.S. citizens, but realizing that U.S. soil would not be safe harbor, they disbanded, and the war ended.

The British government took the whole affair very seriously, and after trials and convictions, transported 58 Canadians and 93 U.S. citizens and sentenced them to serve their time Tasmania.

US and British forces increased their cooperation against these sorts of raids, and built and manned Fort Malden in Sandwich, Ontario, and Fort Wayne in Detroit.

That being said, we should get everyone out of Iraq, including the embassy.

Blogger Avalanche January 03, 2020 7:33 AM  

@23 "if war is declared, impeachment is iced until it is over. Brilliant master move."

Unless you count all the people who will be killed and maimed: both theirs and ours. Then maybe it's s stupid move no matter how 'tactically' sound it seems. IF it can result in us getting out of Dodge -- and the Middle East entirely -- then it might be a brilliant master move.

Not our monkeys, not our circus, not our problem! Exeunt all.

Blogger Avalanche January 03, 2020 7:35 AM  

@28 "We're going to need a lot of boots on the ground to stabilize Iraq."

What "we," probably-non-American-posterity/nation man?

Blogger John Rockwell January 03, 2020 7:38 AM  

Is it true that Q regards Iran as the capital of Cabal?

Therefore this war against Cabal connected to Epstein and co and others require taking down the Iranian regime.

Blogger Trump Ally January 03, 2020 7:40 AM  

The Iranian people love Donald Trump and hate the Mullahs. I have many Iranian friends here and in Iran. They are cheering this mornin . The Mullahs are a criminal organization of despots hated and despised by Persians.

Blogger Wario's Mart January 03, 2020 7:40 AM  

Israelis and Crypto Jews should refrain from engaging in fake patriotism on this board. All it comes across as is glee that two sets of Israel's greatest enemies, the American nation and Persia might kill each other for Jews and Israelis.

That's not going to serve as a basis for goodwill and common cause.

If I was an Israeli or a Jew, I'd be very cautious about disingenuous use of the royal 'we' in the days to come.

If American blood is spilt on the basis of more lies it's going to create some interesting dynamics.

There is very little appetite for war outside the structures of command obligations.

Blogger Shane Bradman January 03, 2020 7:41 AM  

Legally, China has already figured out that economic policy can be used as warfare and makes speeches that use wartime rhetoric despite America's insistence there is no war. America's Iran sanctions are an act of war.

Blogger VD January 03, 2020 7:43 AM  

You wanted a nationalist president. This is what an america first policy looks like in 2020.

Yes. No, it does not. Trump is not a nationalist, he is a CIVIC NATIONALIST, which is merely lite imperialism.

Baghdad isn't in Iceland, therefore, the Icelanders have no obligation to protect the embassies in Baghdad.

Good point. Of course, it was even worse than a failure to protect the embassy, as the people attacking the embassy were Iraqis. Hence the use of the term "Iran-backed" attackers rather than "Iranian" attackers.

Blogger Robert What? January 03, 2020 7:44 AM  

I voted for Trump. But I'm beginning to think that the people who said that Trump has no core values were right all along.

Blogger Trump Ally January 03, 2020 7:44 AM  

The Iranian people support Trump, not the Mullahs, who are hated and despised in Ira . This is a very popular event in Ira . Lots of cheering this morning in Iran. Sure the rent-a-mobs will be marched out but that is fake.

Blogger JD Curtis January 03, 2020 7:46 AM  

No, killing Soleimani doesn’t mean war

Blogger Matt January 03, 2020 7:46 AM  

I'm gonna take the "wait 48 hrs" advice that you usually give when it comes DJT

Blogger Balkan Yankee January 03, 2020 7:52 AM  

The usual Iranian MO is to rely on proxy forces and to fight from the shadows. Last night, President Trump dared the Iranians to fight in the open. Ayatollah Khamenei declined and stated that that those who killed Soleimani must "await" revenge.

The killers must await revenge because Iran cannot win a straight up conventional fight against the United States.

More to the point: Soleimani wnd his top Iraqi militia leaders were set up by Iraqis. Which means the Iranian leadership will first take its vengeance on them.

Whatever fate befalls the United States, the Iranian train is not fine.

Blogger Gettimothy January 03, 2020 7:55 AM  

"You wanted a nationalist president. This is what an america first policy looks like in 2020. "

Blood colored glasses are clouding your vision. It doesnt matter what the reasons of the day are. Americans have heard every "reason" since Reagan and we do not trust (((our leaders))) anymore. what matters is that Americans are still in the goddamned m.e. instead of home

Blogger Jamie-R January 03, 2020 7:55 AM  

As events shake out there has been a pointed remark that the Great Powers of the Future will be Russia, China, the USA and Japan. If you go by that guiding information no one's death warrant can be signed, who is that prestigious in the world of warfare, without some deals being done beforehand. Then it's time to let the military lay the trap. If you notice recently, China got someone they wanted to get for a long time, a pos of shit in their realm, but backed by us of course. Trump is not going to do anything in this world without respecting the major business interests of adversaries and looking for middle ground, then it's about the details in the contract.

Blogger Doktor Jeep January 03, 2020 7:55 AM  

Something is afoot. The world feels strange. Even the local cats were acting funny.

Blogger English Tom January 03, 2020 8:03 AM  

Just 2 instances, the 2003 Iraq,invasion, the 2014 Ukraine coup.
American nonsense is more severe than Iranian nonsense!

Blogger Doug Cranmer January 03, 2020 8:13 AM  

> Noraekard: "Your reading on this is seriously inadequate."

Your understanding of the situation is far too narrow. It's not the US versus Iran, it's Israel and Saudi Arabia against Iran having nuclear weapons.

The mullahs are not going to be allowed to have them. Period.

However these events in the last days fit they are a small part of the total picture.

Blogger Doug Cranmer January 03, 2020 8:15 AM  

> Noraekard: "Excuse my spelling errors. I'm on my phone."

And a little excited.

Blogger Strongarm January 03, 2020 8:20 AM  

I have been accused of demoralization here for making anti-Trump posts but the question begs asking: at what point can we definitively say that the man is an agent of the same powers we hoped he would oppose? What part of their plan has he scuppered or not actively helped to progress? It seems reasonable to conclude that the system IS totally rigged and that his rise to power, bombastic as it may have appeared, was as managed and contrived as any of their other marionette politicians.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan January 03, 2020 8:21 AM  

The twittercons are generally supportive of this action by Trump, for one thing it is certainly a bludgeon against the D-party especially that rent boy Senator Murphy D- CT/Tehran. If there was a poll here I would be one of the few in support of this action but without that moronic "we kickin butt fer freedum" nonsense but out of cynicism of a poor man's Machiavelli.

Blogger Gettimothy January 03, 2020 8:25 AM  

Neon Revolt advances a Attack on the Deep State perspective.

That I support. hope its true

Blogger pnq87 January 03, 2020 8:27 AM  

We must protect the empi... I mean embassy at all costs!

Blogger Caesar Rodney January 03, 2020 8:33 AM  

48 hour rule? I do appreciate the take and I'm interested to see where it leads. In my view high value targets were eliminated at almost no cost to the U.S., relatively speaking. I could be wrong and it may turn out to be a strategic mistake, but I doubt it.

Blogger KJE January 03, 2020 8:35 AM  

what happened to the wait 72 hour advice?

People seem a bit panicked here.

Blogger JACIII January 03, 2020 8:36 AM  

Don't wet yourself. Attacks on US territory should be met with disproportional retribution. People have become accustomed to US leadership behaving as eunuchs with their hands out for alms.

It will take a bit to settle in that the US is governed by a Strongman, but the street shitters appreciate a Strongman. It's their preferred for of governance.

The middle east remembers Qaddafi fleeing in a dress and hiding out pretending to be a farmer same as the French remember their embassy being "accidentally" bombed on the way to do the deed.
Iranian leadership just got reminded they have skin in the game.

Blogger tublecane January 03, 2020 8:39 AM  

@23- Impeachment is a nonstarter. Everyone knows it. They couldn't even come up with crimes with which to charge him.

Blogger Trump Ally January 03, 2020 8:43 AM  

Grab the women and children and head to The Keep. The Iranians are mad.

Blogger James Dixon January 03, 2020 8:48 AM  

> Perhaps the strike was legitimately justified, but given the last 18 years of costly, pointless, and mostly unsuccessful war, that also appears less than likely.

That's the concern, yes.

My hope is that this was a single limited strike in retaliation for the embassy attacks, and that if the embassy attacks stop, so will the strikes.

Otherwise it's going to be a never ending tit for tat or, even worse, escalation.

I also hope Trump is getting his info from military intel and not the usual suspects in the CIA and State Department.

> > The caretaker leader of Iraq's protest-challenged government, Adil Abdul Mahdi, said the US assassination operation was a "flagrant violation of Iraqi sovereignty" and an insult to the dignity of his country. He stressed that the US had violated the terms under which American troops are allowed to stay in Iraq with the purpose of training Iraqi troops and fighting the jihadist organization Islamic State.

Actually, that's excellent. Just the excuse we need to pull out and close the embassy. It's well past time to let Iraq take care of their own problems.

Blogger Jamie-R January 03, 2020 8:53 AM  

Iran didn't want to do a deal with Trump. But he still offers a deal, not like an Obama one though. So they chose war because they're arrogant af, well to do war and you are not a great power you need the acquiescence of great powers. But then the guy you originally didn't want to deal with can instead make deals with them. Eventually doing a deal makes sense, because war was a deal too, and he already did the run around on you before you could launch one.

Meanwhile histrionics about WWIII come from people that continually misunderstand this Commander in Chief and the thorough planning of an re-energised big tent military sitting in Virginia like it's f'ing 1860 again.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan January 03, 2020 8:53 AM  

I'll burn my two post limit on this scenario, the compound called an embassy in Iraq could become a strategic lynch pin in the 2020 election, see the one tweet from the GE this AM about Iran never winning a war or losing a negotiation. In short keep the Iranians sampling the sugar, taunting the D-party to keep up its TDS by siding with the Iranian mullahs and not acting like a little bitch as past presidents did for AIPAC traitors and specifically ruling out regime change wars while at the same time good and hard responses to Iranian stupidity.

Blogger Chase January 03, 2020 8:57 AM  

I seriously cannot understand the belligerence towards Iran in this thread. What has Iran done to the United States? OK, they took back their country 40 years ago from the puppet regime we installed. I'm not young, but I wasn't even born then. Meanwhile, the 9/11 attacks happened in my formative years and were bankrolled by Saudi Arabia and at were at least known by Israel (if not outright supported by the Israelis) who gave us no heads up in advance. And yet, there is no movement to hold them accountable? Got it. It's almost like American foreign policy is designed to serve the interests of people other than Americans.

Blogger James Dixon January 03, 2020 9:00 AM  

> It's possible that Trump found out about the assassination after the fact. Or am I completely off the mark here?

That seems unlikely, but can't be completely discounted.

> Iran will respond in some flashy way, or they will be seen weak.

Iran is weak, and everyone knows it. That doesn't mean they're not capable of hurting us.

Blogger borsabil January 03, 2020 9:04 AM  

The execution may not be justifiable as a response to the embassy attack but that particular rat fucker has murdered hundreds of US citizens over the years so shits given zero.

Optimistic take is that Trump just wants to rub the Mullahs noses in it, humiliate them and wait to see how brave they are. An attack on the US military will mean the end of the Iranian regime, if they're stupid enough to go that route. Trump is not the kind of guy who'll be looking to occupy Iran. More likely is they'll respond 4G, use non state militias and terrorists against western targets. So what? They've been doing that for years anyway. Trump wants an excuse to go full bore blockade against Iran, as in starve them out. He's a great believer in using US economic hegemony to further foreign policy. The likelihood of war remains very very low.

Blogger Trump Ally January 03, 2020 9:05 AM  

Justice was served. That cannot be denied. A killer was dispatched. God bless our President.

Blogger Akulkis January 03, 2020 9:09 AM  

One thing must be remembered. How did this start?

Let's look at the timeline leading up to where we are now.

Iranian backed militia attacked Iraqi and coalition forces bases with rockets 11 times in the last 2 months. I experienced a LOT of that during my year in Baghdad and it sucks. These rockets, based on the WW2 "Katyusha" design aren't accurate or precise. Their impact zone radius is over 100m -- not like land based tube artillery firing shells which is generally 25m impact zone radius, and only due to deliberate destabilization designed into the shells, and which would be nearly zero without destabilization.

So, these harrassing fire attacks killed an American contractor, wounding Iraqi and other US personnel in one rocket attack on a base at Kirkuk.

The majority of the attacks, and the one causing the fatality, were executed by a militia group called Kata’ib Hizbullah, so an air strike was called in on KH's base of operations, reportedly killing 19 and wounding 35 others.

Immediately following the attack, the Trump administration put out an announcement that any further escalations would be the fault of Iran.
This is basically the equivalent, of, after someone attacks you, putting them in a headlock and punching them in the face a couple of times, and telling them that if they just walk away, no further harm will ensue.

Shias then attacked the US embassy, while the Baghdad police didn't even respond. Supposedly (who knows?), the Iranian general, who, reading between the lines in the news reports, was the leader of the Al Kuds forces (who create even more mayhem in the mideast than we do) directed the attack on the embassy.

Then we blew up the Iranian general's car and one of his Iraqi proteges.

Iran has vowed some specified, but serious retaliation.

Now all U.S. citizens who aren't in uniform or in the diplomatic corps are have been told to leave the region immediately. This means not just Iraq.

Personally, I think if the Iraqi government in Baghdad doesn't want to protect our embassy, then they don't need our military assistance.

I thing getting out of the region is the best possible outcome. All of the borders were drawn by the British and French after WWI, based on the ever shifting tribal alliances at that time. If foreign powers were to leave the region for 10 years, I'm sure the borders would get set along natural, mostly religious, lines rather quickly. A decade or two.
The problem is -- if the Kuwaiti, Iraqi, Syrian and Iranian oilfields are under on-again/off-again threat for that time, with random production stoppages, this will cause instability in the oil markets while the borders are getting sorted out. In the long, everything would be more stable. But nobody who imports oil wants to go through it.

Question: If we left, what would China do in the region? I'm not worried about the Russians -- they're self-sufficient, and just want secure borders. China, on the other hand, is not self-sufficient.

(For that matter, neither is the U.S. We have always been dependent on imported goods and/or materials. Different ones at different times. Currently, we depend on various metal ores to make high quality steels, and we've foolishly off-shored nearly 100% of our electronics production capacity and textiles industries.)

China securing an oil source for itself isn't a problem. China taking over most of the oil market, to manipulate other countries into carrying out China's wishes will probably be just as bad as how the Warsaw Pact had no purpose other than for most of the countries to be Moscow's puppets.

Blogger Akulkis January 03, 2020 9:09 AM  


I think Tehran figured out a way to put a wedge between the US and Iraqi governments, and their main goal is the removal of American personnel. Before this, it was an issue of Iraqis attacking Iraqi, US, and Coalition Forces soldiers and contractors. Now it's being twisted by some (probably Shia) Iraqi official into US forces vs Iraqi citizens.

On the other hand, if American personnel, who are the bulk of the coalition forces, leave, then Iraq will fall into civil war quite quickly. ISIS 2: Electric Boogaloo will arise. And then the American public will be propagandized into wanting to reinsert ourselves into the mideast's long-overdue multitude of civil wars to properly realign the borders and recognize currently ignored tribal affiliations (such as the despised Kurds).

In retrospect, when Thatcher called Bush to rush troops to rescue Kuwait (British Petroleum) from Iraq (NOT BP), Bush should have told Maggie "calm down and negotiate an operating arrangement with Hussein's government." Deployment should have been limited to maybe a brigade to Saudi Arabia (Saudi Aramco/Texaco) along the coastal highway until the tensions eased.

@ Doug Cranmer. Your analysis is regarding Israel/Saudi Arabia vs Iran is right on target.

As others have noted, the Persian populace doesn't support the Mullahs and they utterly despise the Al Kuds Forces. They will not support a war over an Al Kuds general getting whacked. Remember, Al Kuds fired on Iranian citizens protesting rigged election results midway through Obama's Occupy Whitehouse.

Blogger peacefulposter January 03, 2020 9:15 AM  

@67 - The Great Powers of the Future will be Russia, China, the USA and Japan.

One of those countries isn't like the others. Three of them are real nations with strong borders. One is not anymore.

Blogger Gettimothy January 03, 2020 9:16 AM  

@70 BDAnon account mirrors your perspective.

Blogger Out of Nod January 03, 2020 9:21 AM  

I'll give Trump 3 days. I thought I heard something through the Q news that suggested the Whole thing is a DS ploy. I'll talk to to my Iranian acquaintance if I see him this weekend to get a gauge on the Iranian community in the US.

Blogger SemiSpook37 January 03, 2020 9:21 AM  

Waiting the requisite 48 hours.

Blogger FUBARwest January 03, 2020 9:28 AM  

Hopefully this is one of those 4D chess moves to get us out of Iran, we'll see. Has it been 72 hours yet?

Blogger Storm Rhode January 03, 2020 9:29 AM  

If a legit Iranian general was in cahoots with the Iraqis who attacked the US embassy in Iraq, then he was a legitimate target. Not to respond with Force would encourage more attacks.

Many Iranians in the US are from when the Shah was taken down by the Ayatollah. Many of them don't like Iran as a theocracy.

Blogger mgh January 03, 2020 9:29 AM  

While I await the usual 2-3 days to see if Trump was right, I must initially align with Trump due to the past Obama and Jarrett alignment with Iran, as well as the suspicious Iranian background of Strzok. Then there is Q, who said we would do Iran and then Mossad afterwards. There are a lot of Israel backers popping their heads up right now as they see this as Trump doing their bidding. Maybe he is, opr maybe he is flushing them out while taking Iran down a peg.

Blogger maniacprovost January 03, 2020 9:31 AM  

at what point can we definitively say that the man is an agent of the same powers we hoped he would oppose

When evidence supports that position. It's retarded and irrelevant anyway. Even if, hypothetically, Trump is a last ditch effort to placate the victims and prevent Boogaloo, that just shows that the enemy is desperate and things have spiraled out of control.

We know this is not the case because they have mobilized EVERYTHING from the media, to CIA and MI6, impeachment and Swedish truants to take him down.

Immigration is down a little, nationalism is up a little, regulations are down and the economy is OK. That's the best we can hope for. If you want more than that you need to do it yourself.

I half expect your comment to be deleted as it's obviously just antitrump propaganda, but I so rarely respond to these.

Blogger Seeingsights January 03, 2020 9:41 AM  

Killing ISIS leader. Very good.
Withdrawing some troops from Syria. Good.
Repelling attack on embassy. Good.
Taking out an Iranian general. I dunno...

Blogger Johnny January 03, 2020 9:45 AM  

The unfortunate problem with our war policy is that it is inconsistent. We reasonably lead them to believe that low level attacks against Americans will be tolerated because we do tolerate the low level attacks. And then owing to domestic political considerations, who we elect or what policy wins support, we change our mind and get this outcome. In this case, ideally they should always have known we would respond in force if sufficiently provoked, and that is probably not the case here. With aggression, the back and forth is worse than one or the other.

Blogger IamDevo January 03, 2020 9:49 AM  

Iran has been at war with the US since 1979. The US has generally been rather lackadaisical in response, except for the eight years of the Obama presidency, during which he rather actively abetted Iran's hegemony-seeking behavior. Let us await further developments before shrieking like little girls.

Blogger VD January 03, 2020 9:54 AM  

what happened to the wait 72 hour advice?

I am waiting. I have not said anything about any suppositions concerning Trump's actions; we do not even know if the president was involved in the decision to launch the drone attack. That being said, we can certainly speculate on the known military realities of the situation.

Blogger Oswald January 03, 2020 9:54 AM  

It is a defeatist attitude to think Trump has made a wrong move here. He knows more than we do. I say wait and see, this General was clearly a major instigator, his removal may have been a necessary step to Trump's plan to bring Iran back to the table. He has repeatedly said he wants a new deal with Iran, maybe this guy was in the way.

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelphia January 03, 2020 9:55 AM  

VD wrote:So Iranians attacked an American embassy in Iraq.

No, Iraqis attacked an American embassy in Iraq.

Organized, funded, supported, video recorded, and backed by Iranian money and resources.

I wouldn't be surprised if those testosterone addled military age males working the piece of shit battering ram got some Amazon gift cards so they can buy some Mo Salah jerseys.

Blogger ADS January 03, 2020 9:55 AM  

No Iranian ever called me "racist"

Blogger JD Curtis January 03, 2020 9:58 AM  

Dancing on the streets of Baghdad after killing of top Iranian general

Blogger Harry_the_Horrible January 03, 2020 10:00 AM  

Where was that General and what he doing?
He was in Iraq, where he had no business being, coordinating with Hezbollah militias that attacked out our embassy.
That was an act of war on the part of Iran.
Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes.
If Iran wants to Boogaloo, there is lovely refinery where 53% of its gasoline is produced just waiting for a visit from the USAF.

Blogger The Masked Menace January 03, 2020 10:10 AM  

One of the greatest accomplishments of my life was convincing my nephew out of joining the Marines.

The EVIL neocon meat grinder won't get him. Years from now he'll still have his limbs, his mind, his life, and his soul.

God please forgive me and may others please pray for me, but there are times I truly hope the neocons rot in hell.

Blogger Stilicho January 03, 2020 10:12 AM  

The Persians have been spoiling for a fight for some time due to their advantages in Iraq. There will be celebration in Riyadh and Jerusalem at this escalation. I am interested in how our frenemy Turkey reacts. The Kurds, as usual, will try to play all sides against each other.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd January 03, 2020 10:12 AM  

The caretaker leader of Iraq's protest-challenged government, Adil Abdul Mahdi, said the US assassination operation was a "flagrant violation of Iraqi sovereignty"...
Perhaps Iraq will ask us to leave? No more presence in Iraq would give some reason to pull back from the rest of the Middle East, as well. TGE might be able to pull a victory out of this one yet.

Blogger English Tom January 03, 2020 10:14 AM  

It is not beyond the realm of possibility for Israel to seize this moment and initiate a false flag against America or American interests, thereby heightening the tension and leading us closer to all out war.

I believe it is called stirring the pot.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd January 03, 2020 10:14 AM  

Dark glasses Woody wrote:God bless the Iranian people.
God bless them and keep them ... far from us.

Blogger Thomas Garside January 03, 2020 10:15 AM  

Killing a top ranking foreign general is quite a big deal . Were there no other options?

Blogger VD January 03, 2020 10:15 AM  

Organized, funded, supported, video recorded, and backed by Iranian money and resources.

Irrelevant. Consider what you could similarly justify if you applied that standard to Jewish money and resources.

As far as the public reports go, Iran did not attack the US embassy in Iraq.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd January 03, 2020 10:15 AM  

Shane Bradman wrote:The air strikes were not a proportionate response to Iraqi activity ...
It is always right to kill mohammedans.

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelphia January 03, 2020 10:16 AM  

@Akulis, exactly right. Well said.

Blogger ZhukovG January 03, 2020 10:17 AM  

To paraphrase the great Chancellor Otto von Bismarck.

'The whole of the Middle East is not worth the bones of a single American Private.'

I'm with Vox on this one.

Blogger Andrew Jackson January 03, 2020 10:18 AM  

Trump go's full gangsta,lol!!!

Blogger Ominous Cowherd January 03, 2020 10:20 AM  

Vaughan Williams wrote:... if war is declared, impeachment is iced until it is over.
I don't think Trump wants to ice impeachment. He pushed hard to make it happen, and I suspect he has plans for the Senate trial.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd January 03, 2020 10:23 AM  

Noraekard wrote:Designating a terrorist causes us to gain legitimacy among the simpletons in America, but it causes us to LOSE legitimacy in the middle East where it actually matters.
Spoken like a true imperialist. ``Screw those flyover country hicks! Worry about our mohammedan subjects, instead!''

Blogger Hammerli 280 January 03, 2020 10:25 AM  

Hopefully, President Trump will follow the good example of President Lincoln, and lock the most disloyal Democrats up for the duration of the war. After looking at the Civil War, both World Wars, Vietnam, and the Iraq campaign, I've become convinced that such measures are essential to victory.

Blogger Newscaper312 January 03, 2020 10:25 AM  

Not sure about the *wisdom* at this time, in this context, but given we never retaliated worth a damn against Iranian backed attacks on US troops in Iraq under this guy's aegis during Bush 2, after the Dems had started really weakening his hand, I have zero problem morally.
I am fairly confident Trumps poker will be good here.

FWIW I this seems like the kind of thing I could see the Russians doing, although they would maybe have done it with some public plausible deniability, although message clear to everyone.

Blogger bodenlose Schweinerei January 03, 2020 10:27 AM  

if war is declared, impeachment is iced until it is over.

That's a great trade, for America and the world! Wrath, ruin and a red nightfall so the Dems' bullshit political ploy can be more irrelevant than it already is.

I mean, it's not like the Dems would vote for a war with Iran then turn around and refuse to authorize any money for it and add "warmongering" to their little list of "impeachable offenses" just because of TDS.

Blogger Ostar January 03, 2020 10:30 AM  

We may not be at war with Iran, but Iran has been at war with us for 40 years.
We should get out of Iraq and the Middle East, but teaching Iran’s mullah that it will hurt to attack us in the future is was a good decision by Trump.

Blogger Newscaper312 January 03, 2020 10:30 AM  

@53 Absolutely agree about the importance of embassies for any sort of minimal international "order".
Problem here this is not merely an embassy, but symbol of all the other crap we have going on in Iraq: some reasonable, other things too heavyhanded if not flat out wrong.

Blogger Jay Will January 03, 2020 10:34 AM  

Stopping behaviour A by punishment and coercion doesn't work in the long run. You need to lead people through the stages without being detected so they believe that they have got there via free will and the consequences of their decisions.

Can you engineer things like this to the level of nations and millions of people? Perhaps not, however when has that stopped people who are greedy for more from trying. If a globalist could goad you into fervent nationalism in order to lead you to punishment of said nationalism so as to condition you AGAINST that nationalism do you not think they would do it?

The Germans are likely a people who still suffer from the psychological ripple of WW1-2. When the nationalist instinct rises in them some of them will be physically sick, or filled with fear. Its easy to mock this cowardly behaviour from a warm seat, just back from droning sand people but what happens after 20 million of you get slaughtered in what appears to be completely INSANE wars. They have been conditioned to FEAR nationalist and tribal instincts in themselves.

Blogger Lamarck Leland January 03, 2020 10:34 AM  

If there is war it is imperative that the US and the European countries prepare to accommodate millions of refugees.

Blogger Oswald January 03, 2020 10:37 AM  

Whatever the outcome. This was a bold move by Trump. I have been reading about this General for years. I wonder if he was the real power in Iran. The revolutionary guard is the dominating force in Iran, and he was in charge of it. Perhaps his death, strengthens the hand of the moderates in Iran.

Regardless, I would expect we will see some type of reprisal, though I predict/speculate it will not be against the USA, but will likely be against someone else, maybe Saudi Arabia, and Iran will claim Saudi Arabia or some other country was the true instigator of assassination, and the USA was merely the means to achieve it.

Blogger xevious2030 January 03, 2020 10:37 AM  

“What part of their plan has he scuppered or not actively helped to progress? […] was as managed and contrived as any of their other marionette politicians.”

Ok, Say there is a company, and about 40 years ago a bunch of vultures hire someone to draft a plan for what is to happen to provide smooth transition if the company goes under, so there is not just wild chaos. If the unfortunate event is the company goes under, and the people end up needing to be replaced (say natural pandemic in line with historical devastation, where 80% of the people (population)are "gone" in short order).

The vultures hire the contractor, who operates under good faith, but recognizes the vultures are not to be trusted. Part of the plan is to hire managers of the transition for this oh shit occurrence. And the vultures set about to artificially create the natural crisis the plan is designed to handle. But, the attorneys for the vultures are lazy and stupid.

So, within the plan are conditional provisions to take any dishonest approaches, nullify their long term effects, restore the company, and provide the mechanisms whereby the vultures’ lack of good faith approach brings their ruin instead. And in the prescreening of the managers, one is given SROE based on the conditional provisions, for the implementation of those mechanisms. The manager was hired to handle a natural decline of the company for a transition/acquisition, but to work against an artificial decline, to protect the company, both short term interests and long. You have managed, but with caveat. And in this, actions based on intention, changes the result for the same situation.

Blogger Primus Pilus January 03, 2020 10:37 AM  

IamDevo wrote:Iran has been at war with the US since 1979.

The US initiated hostilities a couple decades before that, and hasn't left Iran alone since.

Blogger Dan in Georgia January 03, 2020 10:38 AM  

Ya know, I’m thinking this is a grudge TGE has against Iran going back to 1979. If there is a government Trump really really wants to overthrow, it would be the Mullahs in Iran. This could be the big enchilada for him. It makes me wonder how in charge Iran’s government really is.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd January 03, 2020 10:39 AM  

Chase wrote:I seriously cannot understand the belligerence towards Iran in this thread.
Dude, they're mohammedans. They're our enemies, same as the Saudis and the Iraqis and the Turks and the rest of the Satan worshipers. It's always right to kill mohammedans.

Blogger Johnny January 03, 2020 10:39 AM  

The two gulf wars sponsored by the two Bush presidents made a mess of the region. And now we are living with that mess. Because we are locked into keeping the sea lanes open I doubt we can pull out. And if there is a real prospect of one country taking over the region, that is best avoided also. You know, world's oil supply and all that. So we kill some people here and there, and tolerate a certain level of terrorism. Just another day in the Middle East.

Blogger Sam Gem January 03, 2020 10:40 AM  

> U.S. cripples Iran's military.

> Iranian people overthrow their deep state government.

This is the plan. You'll see.

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelphia January 03, 2020 10:44 AM  

VD wrote:Organized, funded, supported, video recorded, and backed by Iranian money and resources.

Irrelevant. Consider what you could similarly justify if you applied that standard to Jewish money and resources.

As far as the public reports go, Iran did not attack the US embassy in Iraq.

Irrelevant to you, and maybe even to me, but not to the GE.

Anyway, the embassy protests, riots, demonstrations, anti-American Pro Iraqi nationalist partying -- whatever you wanna call what happened-- were obviously not the proximate cause.

As Akulis has pointed out, lots of other stuff has gone down before and apparently lots of other stuff was planned.

The embassy stuff was just one more debit item on the Sulemani ledger.

Whether what happened to this lovely Iranian general and his comrades is a good idea or a bad idea, we just don't know yet, as you pointed out in your post.

But the GE has sent a message, viz., "We don't particularly like being where you are, but don't fuck with us."

VERY Alpha.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd January 03, 2020 10:46 AM  

The Masked Menace wrote:God please forgive me and may others please pray for me, but there are times I truly hope the neocons rot in hell.
I regularly pray that the neocons will be brought to repentance, or to justice.

Blogger The Masked Menace January 03, 2020 10:52 AM  

"The Persians have been spoiling for a fight for some time..."

You seem to be spoiling for a fight too. I assume you're in the military, what unit?

Blogger Strongarm January 03, 2020 10:52 AM  

I don't think these people are ever that desperate. They can pull any number of threads, in concert, at any given time and shift public opinion the way that a school of fish shifts upon sensing a predator. I have seen it too many times to count. Not starting foreign wars was perhaps the last thing that Trump supporters could cling to as proof that he was ever the outside candidate. Now he is assassinating Iranian generals. And please, let's not embarrass ourselves by claiming this was in any way in American interests. We know upon whose behalf the hit was placed

Blogger Strongarm January 03, 2020 10:55 AM  

"We know this is not the case because they have mobilized EVERYTHING from the media, to CIA and MI6, impeachment and Swedish truants to take him down."

And objectively, has that had the effect of increasing or diminishing his support? Does anybody with an IQ above room temp take the mainstream media at their word? The alternative news sources are also compromised and they shamelessly promoted Trump.

Blogger Meanoldbasterd January 03, 2020 10:57 AM  

EFPs dude, EFPs

Blogger Ominous Cowherd January 03, 2020 11:01 AM  

Via AC's site: There are happy Iraqis. Sunnis, no doubt.

Blogger Crush Limbraw January 03, 2020 11:01 AM  

Between Moon of Alabama and Tom Luongo's piece here - - this is one huge foul up.
In effect, we painted Trump into a corner.
Whose fault? Whether he knew about this beforehand is irrelevant - war with Iran will be his tar baby!
BTW - judging by so many 'warriors' here, I almost thought I was on American Thinker.

Blogger Alexander January 03, 2020 11:05 AM  

If killing army personnel in countries they "have no business being" is fair game and they fully deserve to "win stupid prizes"...

I don't think that's an argument we in the west want to rely to heavily on

Blogger Dan in Georgia January 03, 2020 11:07 AM  

I’m thinking this is less complicated than it seems. TGE has been isolating and grinding down Iran since taking office. Trump has never forgotten the humiliation of the embassy takeover and hostage crisis in 1979-80, and wants the regime in Iran gone. Trump never looks more sincere than when he is hugging the American flag. His birthday is June 14th after all. I think this is personal.

Blogger White Rationalism January 03, 2020 11:08 AM  

All (((they))) need now is a false flag attack on US Soil, and voila.

Blogger Dan in Georgia January 03, 2020 11:12 AM  

Yes, it goes back 40 years. Trump wants the Mullahs gone. It’s really as simple as that.

Blogger Nostromo January 03, 2020 11:18 AM  

Muslims only understand 1 thing, brute force. They are dumber than a mule in that you need a carrot AND a stick to get a mule to behave. M.A.D. was suicidal over escalation by doctrine and it worked very well. This is better, because Iran cannot threaten the US with annihilation. This is B.A.D. Bad guys assured destruction. Turn Teheran into a glass pit and you won't hear from the mullahs ever again. Except when Democrats mourn their passing.

Blogger mike January 03, 2020 11:18 AM  

Go USA! What was he doing in Iraq together with Hezbollah of Iraq? Playing beer pong? You have a chance you take it. It's not like Iran hesitates. Mullahs gotta go next by Iranians themselves just gave them weapons and support. Not Sicily no cavalry, no losses, check mate. U play with gawd emperor you lose simple as that.

Blogger SciVo January 03, 2020 11:21 AM  

VD wrote:Trump is not a nationalist, he is a CIVIC NATIONALIST, which is merely lite imperialism.

This is where I get grumpy. I love the guy, he's protecting me from worse. But from his actions, he doesn't really get how bad it is.

And I can't blame him. He's 3G on his dad's side and 2G on his mom's. He does not have a connection to our founding.

Blogger Centurion Revolt January 03, 2020 11:22 AM  

It was actually Sudan, and it didn't delay the impeachment trial.

Blogger D Zniger January 03, 2020 11:27 AM  

I hope the strike will go down as a minor incident, like the one in Syria after the fake gas attack. The years with the god emperor have shown that he has still to live with the swamp creatures and has to make sometimes at least make the appearance of a neocon.

Blogger NO GOOGLES January 03, 2020 11:28 AM  

Eh. I'm no fan of Iran but the Quds Force can be wiped off the face of the Earth as far as I'm concerned. It's literally a subversive terrorist organization. Hopefully the GE won't escalate further - the status quo is not really something Iran can tolerate for too many years because of their economic situation. Pointless to get into a war when simply waiting for the enemy to collapse or reform is far more effective.

Seems like this was mostly a message to Iran that the GE isn't a minion like Obama.

Blogger Jim the Curmudgeon January 03, 2020 11:30 AM  

I never imagined that there would be so many neo-clowns hanging out on vox day's blog.

I'm no fan of Iran. Persians and Azeris are eternal enemies of Europeans and I wouldn't shed a tear if they were wiped out by a plague (along with Arabs, Turks, Berbers, Mongols, etc).

However, this act benefits an even greater enemy. Iraq is not the USA. Those big bad Shiite militias did not damage the White House, the Eccles building (unfortunately) or the World Trade Center. The USA is occupying Iraq at the behest of its Jewish fifth column. Even Trump pointed out that the invasion of Iraq was a disaster.

What other country is on Israel's hit list? Oh right. Iran. It's at moments like this that one has to be the most suspicious of who is pulling the strings. Instead, half of you are channeling John McCain, singing 'bomb Iran' with gusto.

If a demonstration and significant property damage at an embassy justifies killing a general and other individuals at an airport, then what sort of reaction should accrue to a nation state that attacks a US warship, kills scores of crew members and injures the rest?

The last few years has demonstrated that US intelligence is completely politicized. The impeachment fiasco has demonstrated exactly which group has taken over the USA, and it isn't the big, bad Persians.

Blogger NO GOOGLES January 03, 2020 11:30 AM  

Also Re: "flagrant violation of Iraqi sovereignty"
1) Because Iran freely operating a massive terrorist organization and supporting militants in your country somehow ISN'T a worse violation of sovereignty
2) So what?

This seems more like political CYA than an actual complaint.

Blogger J Van Stry January 03, 2020 11:31 AM  

I've heard several people say that they didn't know that the general was there. Which makes you wonder about the state of our intelligence if that's true.

However, attacking the embassy is an act of war, and Iran is threatening to do more (has been for a while now) so what can you do? He didn't attack Iran or their legal assets, he went after their secret terrorist cell in Iraq.
War of some sort with Iran is coming, it won't be avoided, because Iran has been at war with us for decades now, we just haven't acknowledged it.

As for Iranians in this country doing anything? It could happen, and it would be a good thing if it did as it would be a huge wakeup call that we desperately need.

But most Iranians are cowards, so I wouldn't count on it.

Blogger SciVo January 03, 2020 11:35 AM  

Doktor Jeep wrote:Something is afoot. The world feels strange. Even the local cats were acting funny.

I started to offer a gas station burrito to a stray dog (with a collar), and he ran away!

Blogger Centurion Revolt January 03, 2020 11:36 AM  

George W Bush, is that you?

Blogger Ray - SoCal January 03, 2020 11:39 AM  

And controlled
>Organized, funded, supported, video recorded, and backed by Iranian money and resources.

Bill Roggio, Long War Journal, commented this was 10 years to late. Soleimani had the blood of over 600 Americans on his hand.

Iranian backed proxies, cat paws, killed an American and attacked US territory (Embassy).

Iranian leader then taunted GE saying he could not do anything.

Trump then retaliated, and established something lost since 1979 (Iranian take over of US embassy in Iran under Jimmy Carter with hostages for over a year), that there is a cost for a US death.

Before, for non lethal attacks, GE did not retaliate with a lethal attack.

Interesting use of the prisoners dilemma.

Iran Government wants to end GE Reign. Getting into a fight with minimal cost, they are seen as the victims, to prevent re-election was their goal. Historically, Iranian Government would up the ante and increase pressure on the US till they achieved their goals. And historically, it worked with the US under Carter, Bush, and Obama. This retaliation has established that GE is not Jimmy Carter.

Iran has been very cautious, taking low risk actions, in their actions towards the US. They thought GE was a blowhard making threats on Twitter, with no bite.

By fighting in Iraq, where the Iraqi people are frustrated with corruption and Iranian influence, Trump is picking the battle ground. And he is not attacking Iran directly. Iraqi Government is paralyzed with fight between Pro and Anti Iranian politicians. And Obama proved the US is willing to leave Iraq. That the US is not there to take their oil. So if Iraq wants the US to leave, GE is very happy to do so.

Blogger Crew January 03, 2020 11:59 AM  

I believe that the GE knows what he is doing.

Blogger Dyspeptic January 03, 2020 12:04 PM  

I'm blaming the whole predicament on the world class idiot son and globalist tool George W. Bush. He really should be prosecuted for war crimes. What a loathsome and pathetic fool that man is. Give him an M4 loaded with dummy rounds and make him do perimeter patrols from a forward operating base in Afghanistan.

Blogger Sillon January 03, 2020 12:28 PM  

Chase wrote:I seriously cannot understand the belligerence towards Iran in this thread....

(((Belligerence))) you say?

Check this article from 2012...

Blogger JamesB.BKK January 03, 2020 12:32 PM  

At least one Black Bart taken down, if true. Villagers not relieved?

Blogger Jay Will January 03, 2020 12:33 PM  

MAGA's assemble!

Blogger Stilicho January 03, 2020 12:34 PM  

The US embassy is American soil. The Persians knew exactly what they were doing when they sent their minions to attack it. It was a test and also bait to engage in a type of low level conflict in Iraq where conditions favor the Persians and Iraqi Shia. The question isn't whether a violent response was warranted-it was, protestations of pacifists notwithstanding- the question is to what degree and how it escalates. The message sent to Iran is that their leaders are not immune. Iran will try to escalate via proxies in Iraq and elsewhere. That's the bait they want us to take. Another half-hearted "surge" in Iraq is what they are hoping for.

Blogger JamesB.BKK January 03, 2020 12:34 PM  

It wasn't the smartest tactical move to have oneself at that wide-open international airport.

Blogger DonReynolds January 03, 2020 12:39 PM  

This is a Star Wars Tease that could take off in any direction. Just how long has it been since American warplanes conducted an airstrike on Baghdad Airport? And just exactly what was the highest ranking Iranian general doing in Baghdad, instead of his own country? No doubt, the NYTimes will offer an article, backed up by 12 Iranian witnesses, that will claim the big general was best man at a wedding when he was struck down. The deputy commander of the Iranian-backed militia in Iraq, we will discover from the Washington Post, was visiting his ailing granny at the time and was unarmed, which makes it murder. Of course, the public will assume that Baghdad is somewhere in Iran and both men were killed during some sort of Muslim Holy festival, like they do in Mecca.

Some American in Iraq will claim that it was all a big mistake in communication, since the aircraft were only supposed to buzz the building. After all, it was only intended as a joke. Some Navy Admiral will tell the press that the pilots acted without orders, since no written orders can be found anywhere in the Pentagon. Still people will wonder, were all the armed drones busy at the time or too far away to hit the target before he disappeared? There was a time when it was the job of the CIA to conduct select assassinations of dangerous or hostile foreign leaders and they never bragged about it to the media. John Brennen will claim it was illegal and will offer to testify at the impeachment trial in the Senate, to that effect. Clapper will say there is no time to lose, since the election is less than a year away. Someone needs to check and see if the dead Iranians were wearing Polish army uniforms, making it a ham-sized Russian joke.

Blogger Jeroth January 03, 2020 12:42 PM  

First, understand that I despise Charlie Kirk, but the kid does not tweet anything policy related without administration approval, and he tweeted this:

Critical we remain restrained and disciplined against another endless, reckless war in the region

Our future is not in the Middle East

Sand and death will further bankrupt us

NO WAR with Iran!

Trump does not want war, but if he keeps himself in this fragile situation (which from the neocon perspective is an antifragile situation), he is going to get it whether he likes it or not.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 03, 2020 12:45 PM  

We shouldn't be in Iraq, Iran or the rest of that God forsaken sand pit. Until we can all come home though and get out, you should still eat a Hellfire missile if you harm a Marine or soldier.

Blogger Geir Balderson January 03, 2020 12:46 PM  

The USA should get the heck out of the Mideast. Muslims are not our friends. They only want the treasure they can get from us. We get nothing in return and the Middle East will never be democratized. George Bush was an idiot. Pull the troops out and place them on our Southern Border, around Hollywood and the House of Representatives.

Blogger Macs January 03, 2020 12:47 PM  

I'm sure Iraqis are now wondering why the fuck they are letting us have an embassy there at all. They are getting AA systems from Russia, they can kick us out whenever they like.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd January 03, 2020 12:48 PM  

VD wrote:Organized, funded, supported, video recorded, and backed by Iranian money and resources.

Irrelevant. Consider what you could similarly justify if you applied that standard to Jewish money and resources.

Not seeing the downside.

Back on topic, Iran is our enemy, whether we are their enemy or not. Injuring Iran is a good thing. As far as worrying about Iranian retaliation, they have always been our enemy, have always been out to injure us, because they are Satan-worshipers and that's what Satan-worshipers do.

By attacking Iran in Iraq, Trump has kicked the Iraqi Shia in the teeth, and that strengthens the Sunnis there, and weakens our Iranian enemies' influence over our Iraqi enemies. Causing division among our enemies is a good thing.

So far, every time Trump has bombed someone in the Middle East, he has not gotten us deeper into war there. It's a pretty good record. We'll wait three days to see what's really going to happen, but it's very plausible that Trump is going to use Iraq's response as an excuse to ramp down in Iraq.

Blogger Theakinet January 03, 2020 12:56 PM  

Iran organized the "protest" that turned into storming the Embassy. That is an act of war.
I wish we weren't there, but Trump had the right to raze Tehran.

Blogger OvergrownHobbit January 03, 2020 12:58 PM  

@157 Yes. Will it work as planned? Wait an see. The enemy always gets a vote.

Blogger Ant_B January 03, 2020 1:11 PM  

Has Ben Shapiro enlisted, yet?

Blogger Macs January 03, 2020 1:11 PM  

I'm convinced Syracuse would have become a client state of Athens if Alcibiades hadn't been stabbed in the back en route. He was a great military and diplomatic mind and could probably have accomplished it without bloodshed as was his usual preference. It also didn't help that he gave the plan away to the Spartans in retaliation.

Blogger Trump Ally January 03, 2020 1:16 PM  

Step away from the fainting couch ladies.

The Iranian people are ready to name a national holiday in honor of President Trump right after they crown him the King Of New Persia.

The meme's flying out of Iran are dead body photo's of the roasted inhabitants of the vehicles. At least whats left of them.

The general message being "great start to the new year".

My sources are solid.

Great leaders take bold action. This is what happens when a real man led by God is in charge.

Blogger Raker_T January 03, 2020 1:32 PM  

Thanks Akulkis for the comments.
My first impression of the whole situation is like this:
1: We know the neocons have been salivating for war with Iran.
2: We live in a world of fairly sophisticated false flag events.
I should learn more about who actually participated in the embassy attack, but why couldn't it have been paid actors, like Antifa? Intel finds out this top ranked Iranian guy is in Iraq, he's quietly, desperately trying to get out. He figures a direct flight out, with fake ID, whatever, is the best way. It's known which day and flight he will be on, the embassy event happens on cue, and just as the guy's car is in the parking lot, ssssshhhh-kboom, he's toast. Now the next part of the script is a FF retaliatory strike by Iran, and WAR baby!
I do recall however that Trump sent missiles beside the airport in Syria, like he was keeping to the letter of a negotiation made; so I'm not saying the above scenario is eminent.

Blogger mgh January 03, 2020 1:33 PM  

Not long ago the media/DS wanted us to go to war with Iran over a drone that was shot down. There was also an incident with an oil tanker being bombed suspiciously. The GE chose this time to attack, and the media is not happy. Looks like Trump scored another touchdown against the DS.

Blogger phunktor January 03, 2020 1:39 PM  


Blogger phunktor January 03, 2020 1:39 PM  

Duty of host country to protect embassy.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 03, 2020 1:48 PM  

So many new commenters, all with the same message, "Trump is finally doing something right!"

In totally unrelated news, Neocon disinformation operations are offering unlimited overtime this week.

Blogger Solon January 03, 2020 1:51 PM  

If TGE can somehow play this into getting our boys home and out of the Middle East, his reelection is absolutely guaranteed, and there will be NOTHING that can stop what is coming.

I see hopeful signs of this already: Iraq leadership wants us out, they won't protect our sovereign territory as they are required to, so all Trump has to do is shrug and say "dont protect our embassies? We won't protect you. Have fun with Hezbollah and ISIS" and then pull out.

Forever wars ended, and Trump is a legend for getting out.

I'm praying extra hard tonight that this is what happens.

Blogger Stryker4570 January 03, 2020 1:57 PM  

The fact of the matter is that none of us know anything even close to the complete story. Unless someone here has direct access to all the Intelligence concerning Iran and the situation in Iraq the comments here fall into the category of conjecture and speculation. How do we know Suleimani wasn't planning some very ugly and catastrophic attacks on Americans both abroad and here in the US? What if the projected fallout from this move was far less than what was being planned against us? We don't know. I will say this, I'm glad Trump does not shrink back from shedding blood when Americans are atteacked and killed. Many of you have spent years complaining about the travesty that was Benghazi, and now you are hand wringing because Trump did exactly the opposite. Didn't Jesus say 'We played the flute and you did not dance, we sang a dirge and you did not weep.' Standing up to bullies is always risky. You could get your ass kicked. Punching a bully in the nose brings with it the possibility of losing the fight. Before WWII there were many contemporaries of Churchill that viewed him as dangerous or reckless for standing up to the Germans. Even to the point of inquiring after what terms of surrender might be offered to them by the Germans. I disagree with our presence in Iraq and Afghanistan. I am against military alliances with the likes of Israel and SA. However, these are the present realities and must be dealt with even if the only options are imperfect solutions to these issues. Extricating ourselves from the Middle East is more complicated that just dropping everything and leaving. Even if we are the bullies in this instance, at least we have a President who looks out for his countrymen. As to the Dems criticisms of his actions, they realize that if any Iranian sleeper cells are activated on US soil, there will be a seismic shift in the Immigration debate, and some of them might be blamed for open Immigration policies that allowed this.

Blogger Vaughan Williams January 03, 2020 2:08 PM  

I'm pretty sure this action won't lead to a war of any significance. Unless Russia is willing to step in on Iran's behalf, this looks like a limited retaliation. Iran is too weak to escalate on their own. If there is a war, it will only further the hundred year old prophecy of van Rensburg that Trump will re-organize and strengthen America's military after the chaos that Obama threw it into.

Blogger Noah B. January 03, 2020 2:11 PM  

The fact of the matter is that none of us know anything even close to the complete story. Unless someone here has direct access to all the Intelligence concerning Iran and the situation in Iraq the comments here fall into the category of conjecture and speculation.

But the problem is that those who know the most are the least trustworthy, and their interests do not align with ours.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 03, 2020 2:15 PM  

Stryker4570 wrote:The fact of the matter is that none of us know anything even close to the complete story.

Seems I've heard that argument before. When was it? Oh, right, in 2002. Let's see if I remember it right:
"The president has access to information that we don't have, so stop second-guessing him. If you don't have access to the full fire hose of intelligence reports, you are not allowed to have an opinion prole. Your betters know what's going on and what is best for our occupied territory, excuse me, your country. How do you know that Saddam Hussein doesn't have nukes? We call them Weapons of Mass Destruction, by which we mean crappy nerve agents, but you're supposed to think nukes when we say that. He could have been plotting to nuke the Superbowl, like in that movie! You wouldn't know, because we have the information and you don't. Churchill! Because Hitler! =I SAID HITLER=!!!!"

How is the weather in Tel Aviv?

Blogger Dan Karelian January 03, 2020 2:20 PM  

@113, @40
Symmetrical standards between states are virtually never applied in practice with regards to geopolitics, even where lip service to such ideals and principles are being touted by everyone.

Every state leader knows this when they bemoan for sympathy on the world stage. Power, symmetrical or asymmetrical is often what decides the real enforceable standards of the game, regardless of what could be justified if standards were somehow equal and consistent.

Blogger Warunicorn January 03, 2020 2:22 PM  

Meanwhile, there's a Southern border that allows unfettered access should one press all the pity buttons. Maybe get one's extended family into the country should one play ones cards right.

We're so backwards on this that I can't stand it. Enough.

Blogger Azimus January 03, 2020 2:22 PM  

Well Pompeo came out and said we averted a nuclear terrorist attack on a stadium full of adorable orphan patients of St Jude's hospital, so its all good.

Blogger Chris Mallory January 03, 2020 2:31 PM  

After reading through these comments, the word "terrorist" must now mean "anyone Israel doesn't like".

Blogger Nathan Hornok January 03, 2020 2:32 PM  

Since finding Vox this last year, I'm trying to make up for lost time and literate myself. One such effort has me reading Thucydide's War history right now. Vox's reference to the Syracuse Expedition is so apt.

One take away from Thucydide's work (not to mention multiple cases in Israel's history throughout the OT) is that things really turn sour for a Nation when they start betraying their oaths and treaties. It's crazy how frequently the USA is flip flopping on who is an ally and who is an enemy. I think we must be past the point where anyone trusts us or retains even the slightest feeling of genuine good will toward us.

It will be interesting to see if we have a lunar eclipse type moment; an event sent from God, but that the soothsayers of our age interpret as a reason to delay our retreat, in order that God's judgement upon us can be complete. If in obedience to God's commands you are praying for the GE, pray that he doesn't fall for the soothsayers lies and retreats sooner rather than later.

Blogger phunktor January 03, 2020 2:38 PM  

The importance of OPSEC. Let all take heed and don't even THINK about REDACTED. You know who you are. So do they.

Blogger phunktor January 03, 2020 2:44 PM  


Blogger Oswald January 03, 2020 3:00 PM  

A country's embassy is suppose to be sacrosanct. Having an embassy in a country is a separate issue from having troops and military bases there. These issues should not be confused. The Iraqi, apparently in charged of the attack on the embassy, was also killed in this strike. This sends a strong message to Iraq. Iraq should not have allowed the attack on our embassy. By the way, attacks on embassies are Iranian specialty: Sorry, don't buy that the Iranians were not responsible or gave the go ahead.

Blogger jkmack January 03, 2020 3:08 PM  

Take the 72 hours. fear and wild speculation serve no useful purpose.

Blogger A rebel without a General January 03, 2020 3:11 PM  

I don’t won’t to die in 110 degree weather in some Iranian mountain range.

Blogger God Emperor Memes January 03, 2020 3:13 PM  

The Quds Force is a designated terrorist organisation, which has directly and indirectly carried out many, many, many acts of terrorism throughout the world. Just because they wear uniforms and have official recognition by their own government does not make them any less terrorists.
By your logic, neither Qadaffi nor Arafat could have been considered terrorists, when they most certainly were.
The presence of an Iranian general in Iraq suggests that perhaps the Shia Iraqis were already uniting, prior to Soleimani receiving his just fate.

Blogger Stryker4570 January 03, 2020 3:21 PM  

Snidely @185 Isn't one of Vox's axioms 'Never believe the official story'? It's a logical fallacy to believe that because this was used to bamboozle the public, that it ceases to be true. Unless you in your wisdom have access to information concerning this particular situation. As to your (((Tel Aviv))) comment, shove it where the sun doesn't shine, dumbass.

Blogger Crew January 03, 2020 3:23 PM  

I think Trump did it to make the Democrats and the Lying MSM look batshit crazy!

Blogger Stryker4570 January 03, 2020 3:27 PM  

Noah B @184 "But the problem is that those who know the most are the least trustworthy, and their interests do not align with ours."

True enough. The wildcard is Trump. So why the Black pill doom and gloom? I'm willing to give it 3 days or 3 weeks even, before I decide this was a bad move.

Blogger God Emperor Memes January 03, 2020 3:27 PM  

Alliances/treaties/diplomacy/agreements aside, I would have thought they'd be obligated to stop a foreign embassy being attacked simply because that is always considered an act of war.

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