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Friday, January 10, 2020

Patreon trolls for new creators

The Quartering, previously banned by Patreon, receives an invitation to join Patreon and disrespectfully declines.
Hi Jeremy,

My name's Tom and I work on the Creator Partnerships team at Patreon. We help creators build long-term creative businesses by investing in a direct relationship with their fans.

I'm reaching out to you to see if you're interested in discussing what Patreon membership could look like for you. We've previously partnered with creators like Tolarian Community College, Strictly Better Mtg and Dungeon Dudes to help them launch on Patreon. We'd love to see if something similar could be a fit, especially given the recent COPPA ruling which has unexpectedly impacted channels despite their content not being for kids.

Are you free this week?

Best,
Tom
Unlike the December 20th TOS change, which was a direct reaction to the Legal Legion's actions, I very much doubt this had anything to do with Patreon changing its policies or its attitude towards creators it had previously banned. We already know that Patreon's processes are shockingly amateurish and disorganized, and that people in one team have no idea what the people in another team are doing.

So, it's much more likely that Tom and the others in Creator Partnerships is working from a list of creators with a good-sized audience that has never been compared with the list of creators that Sydney and the others in Trust & Safety have banned.

One of the interesting things Jeremy observes is that Patreon processes about $1 billion per year. Since they take about 4 percent after the processing fees, that means their annual revenue is only around $40 million. Which, of course, means that they are even more fragile than we had originally calculated.

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42 Comments:

Blogger Azure Amaranthine January 10, 2020 6:17 AM  

Too bad the guys just trying to do their jobs aren't aware of and engaged in disposing of the people who don't care about doing their jobs.

Police your own, or someone else will police all of you by harsher means....

Blogger Section 8A January 10, 2020 6:27 AM  

I just subscribed to that guy's BitChute channel.

Blogger rognuald January 10, 2020 6:28 AM  

Watched his video last night. It validated your statements on Patreon's fragility. I can easily foresee a time in the near future when a serious competitor rolls into town and crushes them.

Blogger Rek. January 10, 2020 6:33 AM  

Upwards and onwards!! Deus Vult!!

Blogger ÆtherCzar January 10, 2020 7:02 AM  

Talk about the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

Blogger Doktor Jeep January 10, 2020 7:10 AM  

These people are more into working for a tech company and living in a city, slurping their double lattes, than actually doing the job.
This is why silicon valley needs to be destroyed, disbanded, and the earth salted. Get tech out into the real America staffed by real people and things would improve.
There are tech CEOs who openly despise flyovers though. Like they go out of their way to create this situation we are in now.

Blogger Lazarus January 10, 2020 7:24 AM  

There are tech CEOs who openly despise flyovers though.

Revenge of the Nerds

Blogger Philippe January 10, 2020 7:26 AM  

This should not be surprising, but how come they have such bad communication within their company. They must have 100 employees approximately.

Blogger basementhomebrewer January 10, 2020 7:41 AM  

Get tech out into the real America staffed by real people and things would improve.

Not to mention it just makes more business sense. 40 million Gross Rev in Oklahoma goes a lot further than 40 million in San Mateo. As you pointed out though, it's not about the business but the lifestyle.

Blogger God Emperor Memes January 10, 2020 7:54 AM  

The Left hand doesn't know what the other Left hand is doing, eh?

Blogger pdwalker January 10, 2020 8:05 AM  

and to think, it’s not even two weeks into the new year.

i’m starting to worry about getting burned out on all this winning.

nah.

Blogger Trippa January 10, 2020 8:17 AM  

I don't understand how Patreon isn't profitable. WTF? Ceo Jack Conte says their business model is "not sustainable"? How????

All they have to do is process payments for ~4% fees. How is this not profitable? What are they wasting money on?

Blogger RealTalk103 January 10, 2020 8:34 AM  

The Quartering is approved/controlled ops. I never watched or subscribed to them, then out the blue, I recently was receiving daily suggestions from Youtube at the top of the feed, and even a couple push notifications to my phone. The videos featured this fat neck beard complaining about SJWs ruining Star Wars and other movies. I watched one and eventually the guy revealed his SJW-lite leanings. He just thinks the leftists are going too far.
I ended up blocking YouTube from suggesting their videos. I've had a few other friends including a 20-something Bangladeshi girl confusingly complain that YouTube was randomly pushing conservatives bitching about Star Wars. Ironically two days after this conversation with her, I received a suggestion from YouTube to watch Ben Shapiru's Star Wars review. It seems like blocking suggestions works best.

Blogger God Emperor Memes January 10, 2020 8:39 AM  

Defending lawsuits, possibly.

Blogger Karhu January 10, 2020 8:44 AM  

@12 Trippa and others: the most important fact about Patreon and money is that it was not satisfied with organic growth, they've received $165.9 million in venture capital: https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/patreon/

Even without the social justice convergence, there's no way they can make the numbers work to satisfy their investors. See dc.sunsets' many essays on our social mania that's driven so much malinvestment, and I add that from what I've read, tech venture capital doesn't get the best finance people since it doesn't earn very much money, the best work on Wall Street and similar places.

Blogger Akulkis January 10, 2020 8:46 AM  

@10 The greedy left hand doesn't know what the hateful left hand is doing.

@12 "I don't understand how Patreon isn't profitable. WTF? Ceo Jack Conte says their business model is "not sustainable"? How????"

Have you ever seen the play or the movie "The Producers" ???

Speaking of such, perhaps Patreon should open every workday with all of the employees singing a rousing round of "Springtime for Hitler."

Blogger SemiSpook37 January 10, 2020 9:12 AM  

@12 That "safety" committee that's been deplatforming everyone to the point that they have to beg people to come back.

Blogger Brett baker January 10, 2020 9:20 AM  

To paraphrase the Great Communicator," Sometimes our left hand doesn't know what our far-left hand is doing".

Blogger TMLutas January 10, 2020 10:09 AM  

It *is* annoying when they don't even bother to coordinate their teams. It's not just Patreon.

The communications from the Partner team at Quora asking me to increase my participation were sometimes hitting my email box right next to the non-responsive appeal to the two week edit ban they gave for reasons I still have no idea.

I'll still plug away at it because I find amusement in getting libs to pay me so I can finance pro-liberty projects but I certainly don't count on the income stream.

Blogger Jose Miguel January 10, 2020 10:12 AM  

@12 @Trippa

Tech companies of the Silicon Valley style love to burn cash on useless crap to show off how avant guard and inclusive they are. Plus the diversity hires are massive dead weight with engineering salaries. I've dealt with some whom my coworkers and I intentionally kept from doing any work as all they produced was de facto negatively productive.

Blogger FUBARwest January 10, 2020 10:13 AM  

$40 million in revenue.... Hopefully the alternatives are ready to handle the mass migration about to occur.

Blogger linesy January 10, 2020 10:31 AM  

Employing a bunch of six figure new church lady sjws, definitely

Blogger Longtime Lurker January 10, 2020 10:44 AM  

If Patreon craters, maybe we should put in an offer, you know, to buy it.

Blogger VD January 10, 2020 10:52 AM  

Actually, after crunching the available numbers myself, I would estimate their revenue is much closer to $15 million than $40M. The 2019 projections of $500M processed have clearly not panned out, as 2019 payouts did not increase that much over 2018. In fact, if the Graphtreon numbers are correct, their annual revenue is actually between $6M and $7M.

They may actually be smaller than Indiegogo.

In which case, the LLoE may have hit them a little too hard....

Blogger CarpeOro January 10, 2020 11:08 AM  

"In which case, the LLoE may have hit them a little too hard...."

Meh. They earned it. But then, I do enjoy that old Men At Work song, "Overkill"

Blogger Avalanche January 10, 2020 11:12 AM  

@6 silicon valley needs to be destroyed, disbanded, and the earth salted."

Oh, let's not salt the fertile earth there -- we're going to need the food! Perhaps a partial lobotomy for the SJW's followed by training in gardening! I'm not averse to punishment by slavery, are you?

Blogger Avalanche January 10, 2020 11:16 AM  

@24 "In which case, the LLoE may have hit them a little too hard...."

Eh, blades of grass when elephants get annoyed... {shrug} Too bad for them! Isn't it likely that someone else will immediately pick up the franchise? C_A won't want to do without...

Blogger Jack Amok January 10, 2020 11:28 AM  

The Left hand doesn't know what the other Left hand is doing, eh?

Two Left feet, no wonder they're lousy dance partners.

All they have to do is process payments for ~4% fees. How is this not profitable? What are they wasting money on?

I think Karhu is probably right - they're "profitable" in the ordinary sense of a business, but they're not able to throw off the sort of profits needed to service their VC investors.

Sad really, when you consider what their business really is. They're effectively a digitized United Way, making it easy for people to virtue sig... I mean donate... to causes that make them feel good (and I suppose we could damn Patreon with faint praise by pointing out they're more efficient at it than United Way). It's really an almost perfect business to grow incrementally. A website with a payment processing connection and a mobile app and your customers become your advertising department - what a low cost start-up that should be.

Blogger Akulkis January 10, 2020 11:35 AM  

Turning SJWs into farm hands would be most delicious.

Blogger SemiSpook37 January 10, 2020 11:43 AM  

@24

With these people, "too hard" is never hard enough.

Blogger Jim the Curmudgeon January 10, 2020 11:49 AM  

They deplatformed the Quartering? Jeremy Hambly?

The guy is so effing milquetoast. He reads a bit of news related to the gaming industry and laughs a bit at left wing loonies. That's enough to get you banned?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd January 10, 2020 11:58 AM  

VD wrote:n which case, the LLoE may have hit them a little too hard....
No doubt you will be able to come up with an alternative platform for the replatforming by the time they go under.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 10, 2020 12:04 PM  

VD wrote:their annual revenue is actually between $6M and $7M.
Which would validate the unsustainable nature of the business. If they have 100 employees, as someone says above, that pencils out to $15-20MM in payroll/benefits per year.
Burning through that investor cash like it's free. Cause it is. That $135MM won't last long.

Blogger Karhu January 10, 2020 12:09 PM  

@28 Jack Amok:

"Sad really, when you consider what their business really is. They're effectively a digitized United Way, making it easy for people to virtue sig... I mean donate... to causes that make them feel good (and I suppose we could damn Patreon with faint praise by pointing out they're more efficient at it than United Way). It's really an almost perfect business to grow incrementally. A website with a payment processing connection and a mobile app and your customers become your advertising department - what a low cost start-up that should be."

There are additional costs, which would be substantial if their revenue is as low as $7 million, in disbursing the money, reporting to the IRS, and all the money laundering laws and regulations, the Know Your Customer stuff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer

Blogger Alexei January 10, 2020 12:12 PM  

It is ridiculously easy and cheap for creators to set up their own patronage/membership on their own websites using Wordpress plugins, and has been for several years now. Everything Patreon does, without the lack of control and SJW bs.

It hust takes, oh...30 minutes of work or so.

Blogger Jack Amok January 10, 2020 12:12 PM  

There are additional costs,

Sure, but those should scale with number of customers fairly well. There'd be a minimum to cover fixed costs, but it should still let organic growth be possible.

But that's so old fashioned.

Blogger MrNiceguy January 10, 2020 2:57 PM  

Overkill is underrated.

Blogger Dangeresque January 10, 2020 3:57 PM  

40M... Depends on how much Soros/Deep State money they get behind the scenes.

Blogger mrpinks January 11, 2020 5:17 AM  

Yes, I think they wont be as profitable as they appear. A lot of data to track with many small customers, many small patrons, a lot of small transactions with overheads, wages for 140 odd staff @ say 60k pa is 8M, plus premise leasing, computers for each worker, phones, cloud storage and replication...
The Evil Legion must have them running scared inside Patreon.
Embrace the conflict.

Blogger Gallant January 11, 2020 12:12 PM  

60k in San Fran? A: the lowest paid orangutan in their San Fran office is paid more than that, the average would be over double. B: per employee health ins and taxes and premises in Cali are a large tab on top.

A big consideration too is profit per employee (I forget the term used in investor circuits) but if it’s low they won’t be bought out under tech valuation even if traditionally profitable.

Blogger Statix January 11, 2020 4:11 PM  

Dear Patreon,

Learn to code.

Sincerely,

-S

Blogger Daniel January 12, 2020 11:17 AM  

It guy here. Wonferinh the smaw thing. They hve 100 employees, wtf do they do with the cash?

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