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Friday, February 28, 2020

Socialism is the better option

That isn't to say that it is a GOOD option or the best option available. But it is a better option than continuing the post-1965 trajectory of driving the price of labor ever downward in order to keep the usury pumps going:
Every single economic policy change since about 1990 has had two primary effects:

a) lowered real wages through increased labor market participation and/or lowered demand for labor
b) increased the value of fixed assets or investment instruments

In other words, if you were “holding” in 1987, when the oldest Boomers were forty and the youngest were twenty-five, you’re golden now. If you were just starting your career in 1987, you were racing against time. If you’re starting today, the deck has been stacked against you higher than you’ll ever clear. Want to live the middle-class life of 1975? Better hope your IPO nets you ten million bucks. The wealthiest of the Baby Boomers deliberately created a world in which they’d pay less for the things they wanted (employees, labor, televisions) while being paid more for the things they owned (real estate, index funds, 1959 Les Pauls, 1985 Porsche 911s). It was a hell of a trick, wasn’t it?

Eric Chester looks at the hellscape generated by his generation and what he sees is that there aren’t any more paperboys. I look at it and I have serious concerns. I note that support for explicitly socialist government is growing by leaps and bounds. Some of my friends think this is because the Millennials are stupid. “Don’t they know that they won’t be the people who benefit from a communist government?” This is what I think the proto-socialists have figured out:

a) In the event of a Red Revolution in this country, they have a very slim chance of becoming part of the nomenklatura who have power, real estate, and freedom to determine their own lives.
b) If there is no Red Revolution, they have precisely zero chance of ever owning a home, saving for retirement, or starting a traditional family.
This is why the Nationalist Right is inevitable. This is why the globalist world order will fail, either in Nationalist ice or Socialist fire. And the painful economic reality is that either course will be more viable than the status quo. This explains the otherwise inexplicable appeal of Bernie Sanders. As awful as he is, the jewish socialist is legitimately a less horrific candidate than the jewish corpocrat.

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135 Comments:

Blogger Robert Browning February 28, 2020 8:31 AM  

If a country values it workers, then it should pay them in gold.

Blogger Stilicho February 28, 2020 8:46 AM  

"This is what I think the proto-socialists have figured out:

a) In the event of a Red Revolution in this country, they have a very slim chance of becoming part of the nomenklatura who have power, real estate, and freedom to determine their own lives.
b) If there is no Red Revolution, they have precisely zero chance of ever owning a home, saving for retirement, or starting a traditional family"

They have effectively a zero chance of being part of the nomenklatura unless they are already part of it (mainly via birth).

They can, on the other hand, have all of the things listed in part 2, but it is harder for them to achieve for the reasons given.

That's why the nationalist right will win out over the quasi-nationalist left in the US. The left also has a bigger problem with diversity, anti-nationalism, anti-Americanism, etc. That act as a drag on the attempts to form a cohesive nationalist movement on the left. The right has its problems too, but the left has more in this area.

Blogger Uncle Maffoo February 28, 2020 8:51 AM  

"When I graduated college in '72, I was making only $18,000 a year! You lazy Millennials can do it too if you didn't waste your money on avocado toast!"

Blogger rumpole5 February 28, 2020 9:03 AM  

Query: What do you mean by "socialism"? I thought that the classic socialism involve state ownership of the major industries. That would be a major loser system because the state can't do anything efficiently. But, if you mean taxes and fees and ownership restrictions on privately owned corporations and property that skims off a fraction of their profits and then redirects that skim to benefit the less physically and intellectually endowed in our society, then that might work. The main problem would be the enforcement of the distribution of the skim. A system that allowed anyone to audit the process, and then privately sue for a portion of any fraudulent misappropriation, would be much better than government directed oversight.

Blogger ZhukovG February 28, 2020 9:05 AM  

If Bernie Sanders gets over his love affair with open borders he could become a serious electoral threat.

One need only look at the Russian Federation. Seventy years of Soviet Communism and they are currently in a better position in many respects than the United(?) States. This, despite a near constant Globalist war against them since the 1990s.

Blogger John Regan February 28, 2020 9:08 AM  

It will fail. That's a certainty. But when? They have kept it going so much longer than reason would tell you they could. The "derivative architecture", as it's called, is almost unimaginably absurd. Yet it hasn't collapsed yet. Game Theory is underneath it all, and its developer was a lunatic.

Blogger RonG February 28, 2020 9:09 AM  

When I was twelve years old in 1972 I was earning $2.50/hr driving tractors and bailing hay for the neighbour. That was worth more than what I earn as a skilled worker today. Back then, a person earning minimum could rent an apartment. Today in my area a high payed worker would work half the month to pay rent, and on minimum your on the street.
That neighbour farmer was also getting more for his beef. The market price of pork and grain is about the same in dollars as today.

Blogger SJ February 28, 2020 9:18 AM  

I'm glad someone is saying this. As a millennial with millennial friends I can attest that telling them "socialism will destroy the economy" does not dissuade them from voting for socialism. They want the economy destroyed. What other hope do they have?

Meanwhile our boomer parents can't help but brag to us about how great their investments are going. When you explain to them that rising asset prices are essentially wealth transfers from the young to they old and from the poor to the rich, and that we have no hope of home ownership, they just shrug and say "but it's good for me". Sociopaths.

Also boomers need to shut the fuck up about Ronald Reagan.

Blogger Pontificus Maximus February 28, 2020 9:28 AM  

This post, and the article from which it was sourced, is truly spot on(!). To effectively assign blame to the Boomer-O’s, however, we needs be more specific. One way to do this would be a steadfast campaign to make The Clintons the face of Boomerism.

Blogger Brett baker February 28, 2020 9:32 AM  

We could have say, a basic health insurance system paid for by taxes; but the Boomers would have to give up "too much" to make it work. No, you don't get Unlimited health care after 75. No, you won't get as large of dividends from your health care and biotech stocks. And yes, the person providing your services won't spend as much time in college as your generation did, but they won't need to charge as much as now.
But..... nah f*&& off X-ers, Millenials, and Zoomers, you ain't as cool as us!

Blogger Oswald February 28, 2020 9:59 AM  

Bummer Boomers

Blogger Newscaper312 February 28, 2020 9:59 AM  

Disagree, in that what is on offer from the Dems this time is Socialism AND fully Open Borders, worst of both.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 February 28, 2020 10:02 AM  

I keep on pointing out that the Median house costs around 200K while the Median income is around 60K.

That means that in order for a young person to buy a house, he would have save 2/3rds of his gross income in order to make the 20% down payment.

Otherwise, he's just signing a 30-year lease with a bank. And a terrible lease at that because he has to cover the costs of appliances, home repairs, etc.

Blogger The Masked Menace February 28, 2020 10:03 AM  

I came to the same conclusion. A few years back I realized that if I was just been a little older I would have had a chance of accomplishing financial independence. During the eighties I started my very first real job. Literally within days of starting I remember the company announcing plans ending the pension.

Blogger English Tom February 28, 2020 10:14 AM  

For a look at the end state of Fabian socialism, go on youtube and type in, George Bernard Shaw justify Yourself. Socialism means you are owned by the state. Completely. You have no soul, and will not be allowed any spiritual impulse. You are merely an asset or a liability. The George Bernard Shaw video shows what these demons have planned for the liabilities of society.

Blogger MaskettaMan February 28, 2020 10:15 AM  

>"But it's good for me."

The Day of the Pillow approaches, brother.

Blogger Madmarisp February 28, 2020 10:23 AM  

I lived under socialism for 21 years of my life and no VD - thank you very much. I’ll pass.

Blogger map February 28, 2020 10:24 AM  

The problem is even more basic than people realize.

The reason why so many young people like Bernie is because we live in a society where it is becoming harder for the young to duplicate the lifestyle of their parents. The youth today are missing the milestones that their parents reached at the same age and, as they miss them, each milestone becomes more and more unattainable.

They miss career paths, maintaining relationships, getting married, buying a first home and having children.

As they get older, they find it harder to prepare for that point in life where they will be unable to work.

Worse, they see socialism going to everyone else: big corporations, the elderly, minorities, illegal aliens, foreign students and they just want some of that socialist cheddar going to them.

When you have a situation where the young are worse off than their parents while the social system denigrates them as "snowflakes" and gives their opportunities to foreigners, you will have revolutionary conditions.

Of course, the only form of socialism that can deliver is National Socialism.

Blogger LES February 28, 2020 10:28 AM  

Isn't that The Plan? Crony capitalism for the (((1%))) and social services for the slaves. When I used to listen to Rush he insisted the rich do not get rich by taking from the poor. No, the rich take it before it gets to the poor.

I don't believe unemployment is low. Oversupply of labor keeps wages low and housing expensive. What could go wrong?

Blogger rumpole5 February 28, 2020 10:31 AM  

I believe that the Xer's and Millennials together, outnumber Boomers now, so if you want to skim off some corporate profits to provide medical care for low income folks, then just vote it in and stop complaining. Medical care vouchers to low income citizens, to use at the medical care provider and pharmacist of their choice, would be a good idea. The system could work like food stamps. Competition among providers would keep the costs down. Problem solved. Another idea would be vouchers to use to pay for medical insurance. However, leave the rest of us alone. We already have too much government interference in our health issues.

Blogger TMLutas February 28, 2020 10:36 AM  

"Socialism is the better option", really? I'm at the old end of Gen-X and have three kids right now. When the system is rigged against labor and in favor of investment, the solution is to be a part-time entrepreneur doing the basic work that most people can do, spot bargains, buy stuff, and sell for more.

My son's first experiment at doing that needed $20 in startup capital to buy video game keys. You can raise that by selling aluminum cans for scrap so there's no real barrier to entry. As others have noticed, Craigs list has a section where people actually give stuff away. Go take something, clean it up, and list it on ebay.

Put yourself on the other side of the line between worker and capitalist, at least part time. Over time, the amount of labor you do to get your daily bread shrinks as your entrepreneurial efforts pay off. Live frugally and you can entirely escape the labor market as a worker in a few years.

The tilted system of the "post-1965 trajectory" is better than socialism because it's entirely possible to not be a sucker. Socialism, even for the nomenklatura, is a swirling sewer drain by comparison that closes off escape after escape as it always needs MOAR to achieve the paradise that is always around the corner.

Blogger Doktor Jeep February 28, 2020 10:37 AM  

GenX still had the carrot on the stick.
Zoomers know there is no carrot, and ghey are being beaten with the stick.

Blogger The Masked Menace February 28, 2020 10:38 AM  

We live in an economic system based on credit expansion, not capital accumulation. Young people cannot accumulate capital in an environment of near zero percent interest rates and inflation (i.e. currency devaluation) of 2% or more. In such an economic environment capital is actually dissipated which in turn promotes desperate speculation among investors frantically seeking yield or a store of value.

Blogger The Masked Menace February 28, 2020 10:43 AM  

Bloomberg is worth approximately $64.2 billion.

Blogger The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey February 28, 2020 10:45 AM  

Is it really the millennials who have embraced the socialism? What the Boomers have done with Obamacare is a helluva neat trick. As they aged into the stage of life where health care becomes paramount, they socialized the cost. They pushed it as much onto the backs of the young as they could, despite the fact that the Boomers are the ones with all the money. Now perfectly healthy young people are paying through nose on premiums with sky-high deductibles for a system they don't really utilize at all comparatively. All to keep the Boomers' costs lower.

"Well, if we are going to play this game ..." one might say it's become a generational attitude? Who can blame them? On top of everything else they do this??

Blogger Silly but True February 28, 2020 10:46 AM  

The problem with “the skim,” is that there is never any willpower to hold to “a fraction of their profits.”

If .005% generates a lot if revenue to teach African natives how to properly wash their balls, or observe a certain amount of shrimp injected with LSD having sex, then think how much more good can be accomplished at 30% or 60%!

Blogger rumpole5 February 28, 2020 10:46 AM  

It is irksome for those of us who don't sleep around, don't get hepatitis risk tats, don't overeat on junk foods, don't drink alcohol and do drugs & cigarettes, avoid other risky behaviors (motorcycles? Bars full of judgment impaired drunks?) And Do get rest, exercise, and spiritual sustenance, to be lectured and guilt tripped about the health issues of stupid, self indulgent, ignorant, Godless fools, who follow obvious patterns of behavior that will destroy health. That is irksome.

Blogger maniacprovost February 28, 2020 10:46 AM  

We could have say, a basic health insurance system paid for by taxes; but the Boomers would have to give up "too much" to make it work.

Free healthcare, in and of itself, is a bad thing.

And while I somewhat agree with the point of the post, actual socialism as envisioned by Bernie Bros, stoners, Millenial waiters and SJW intersectional activists will not change the bad things about the current crony capitalist regime. Stalinism is not on the table. Maoism is not on the table. Nazism may be feasible. Socialism, as promoted by the Democrats, is basically the current system but harder.

Blogger OneWingedShark February 28, 2020 10:54 AM  

SJ wrote:I'm glad someone is saying this. As a millennial with millennial friends I can attest that telling them "socialism will destroy the economy" does not dissuade them from voting for socialism. They want the economy destroyed. What other hope do they have?

Meanwhile our boomer parents can't help but brag to us about how great their investments are going. When you explain to them that rising asset prices are essentially wealth transfers from the young to they old and from the poor to the rich, and that we have no hope of home ownership, they just shrug and say "but it's good for me". Sociopaths.

Also boomers need to shut the fuck up about Ronald Reagan.

The other option? Going all-in on Justice.
A lot of these problems can be solved by simply doing Justly; imagine, for a moment, if the "Too Big To Fail" companies were held to account for their blatant law-breaking.

As an example:
Wells Fargo was embroiled in a scandal where it was revealed they were stealing the identities of clients (and prospective clients) and setting up new accounts and credit-cards in their name; "as many as 1.5 million checking and savings accounts, and more than 500,000 credit cards, without customers' authorization." — This was let off with a relatively small punishment, a "slap on the wrist", despite even the total cost of $3bn / 1.5m = $2000 /per violation… and that's w/o considering that this situation is perfect for RICO action.

Add to that things like BigTech and their obvious H1B fraud and its impact on wages, and you could easily change the practical economy for the Citizen overnight with RICO + anti-trust… you just have to put Justice as a higher priority than profit.

Blogger The Pitchfork Rebel February 28, 2020 10:55 AM  

@8.

You need to have something to talk about before you tell anybody to shut up. Reagan had his faults, but if you didn't live through Carter, you shut the fuck up.

This is why I don't buy the "wage whining".

The other night, I went to the closest McDonalds and ordered fish sandwiches. I had a choice of two Micky-D's. The closer one draws its labor force from the inner city. The experience I'm going to describe is not particularly unique.

I placed my order with a polite older woman and was told "next window". When I got there, I saw four or five "diverse" late teen/early twenties individuals yucking it up, a couple of phones in hand, one not using the mop in his hand. After about ten minutes I asked about my order. "We're making it fresh for you".

Another five minutes passed, I made another inquiry and was told that the first part of the order (two sandwiches) brought down the grease temperature and they had to wait to "get it up" again.

When I said, I think I'll take a refund, the girl laughed. I had to get out of my car, the idle staff stood around still yucking it up and then a middle aged white manager came over to issue the refund. He was apologetic and when I noted the employees yucking it up, he said in exasperation "what do you want me to do". I could see this guy was tired of adults acting like it was middle school recess. It was so bad that when the refund failed to note their fish is 2 for 5, it ended up refunding me an excess.

I was still hungry, drove two miles and got the same order in three minutes with no issue.

The individuals at the first location aren't worth a damn dime, and that's why we're being flooded with foreigners and automation.It covers up the fact that some people aren't productive.

By the way, somebody needs to tell Jack he needs a basic accounting book to understand what fixed assets are- that they are things that you own that are consumed over a period of years-and other than land, they are always being degraded and used up, so they never go up in value.

Blogger Chris Ritchie February 28, 2020 11:00 AM  

Our company is hiring in the D.C. area. Want to guess the demographic breakout?

We collected 11 applications through LinkedIn for one job. 36% are American. 27% are female, only one of which is an American.

For another position we have 24 applicants. Only 29% are American. 38% are women.

Perhaps most Americans are just gainfully employed. Perhaps. Take from this what you will.

Blogger The Masked Menace February 28, 2020 11:01 AM  

Capitalism is already gone.

Blogger Doctor Mayhem February 28, 2020 11:05 AM  

I wish corona would quit fucking around and start that mass boomer death.

Blogger Red Bane February 28, 2020 11:06 AM  

Been reading a good of Michael Hudson lately. Despite his socialist tendencies, there is no denying the fact that his observations about the current destructive policies of the neo-liberal financial order are spot on. It will be interesting to see what replaces this global period of dollarization as a means of maintaining Empire. suffice to say the US is decades away from rebuilding an industrial base. Pain will define the future.

Blogger VD February 28, 2020 11:14 AM  

I lived under socialism for 21 years of my life and no VD - thank you very much. I’ll pass.

Congratulations on completely missing the point.

Blogger Chris Ritchie February 28, 2020 11:17 AM  

@15 "The Obsolete Man" Twilight Zone episode also does a good job revealing this.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd February 28, 2020 11:27 AM  

ZhukovG wrote:One need only look at the Russian Federation. Seventy years of Soviet Communism and they are currently in a better position in many respects than the United(?) States.
Most of the Western Poz was produced and directed by International Communism, and was explicitly NOT allowed in the areas controlled by it. The East has to deal with the hangover from three generations of communism and official atheism, but that's less destructive than three generations of weaponized poz.

The East wasn't shielded by socialism, the East was shielded by the fact that the weapon deployed against us wasn't aimed at them. They were very nearly destroyed by their (((communist))) masters.

Don't look at socialism and say it saved the East, look at the poz and say it's worse than socialism.

Blogger sammibandit February 28, 2020 11:30 AM  

After about ten minutes I asked about my order. "We're making it fresh for you".

Another five minutes passed, I made another inquiry...


You expect us to believe you sat in the drive thru lane for 15 minutes before going inside? Okay, Karen.

Blogger Balam February 28, 2020 11:46 AM  

''Worse, they see socialism going to everyone else: big corporations, the elderly, minorities, illegal aliens, foreign students and they just want some of that socialist cheddar going to them.''

That is a very interesting observation and it's definitely true. It's a doomed wish of course but very understandable. It recalls the failed movement of MRA who saw the legal protections and indulgence women got and wanted a piece of that for men. It failed because they did not understand how the current situation ended up as it did (in short: they saw all righteousness as coming from the teat of government which is not true). But it's easy to see what and why they wanted.

Similarly the millennial socialists want some o' dat gibs but don't see that appealing to the government is pointless because their impoverishment is by design not because they weren't a big enough victim group.

All millennials want to see it blow up, however.

Blogger Silly but True February 28, 2020 11:47 AM  

Bill Clinton’s 370 & 379 electoral vote wins in 92 & 96 place him at 16th & 17th best of 58. Not too shabby.

He garnered 49% of popular vote, 8m more popular votes than spry Bob Dole, including 26% of the white religious right, 6% of Conservative Republicans, 20% of Moderate Republicans, and 44% of proto-#NeverTrump Liberal Republicans.

Perhaps if every Republican that voted for Clinton in 1996 was just shivved in their place at next family gathering after the 1996 election, the world would already have been a better place.

But that would’ve wiped out 63% of married women, 62% of single women, and 43% of white women.

Blogger PH February 28, 2020 11:48 AM  

A counter argument is, in time, the millennials will inherit the assets from their parents.

Blogger CharityBear February 28, 2020 11:53 AM  

Tried explaining this to my boomer dad, he said, "it's always been like how it is now." I think it's just a refusal to see the writing on the wall at this point for the boomer generation.

Blogger dc.sunsets February 28, 2020 11:55 AM  

It all looks to me like people arguing over whether to live on the NW or NE face of Mount St. Helens in 1979.

There is no path ahead that defuses the Doomsday Device constructed since the 1960's. You can't consume that which hasn't been produced. The illusion of debt-fueled prosperity consumed SOMETHING in our present. Largely it was our culture, and the foundations of our civilization.

Tens of millions of antagonistic alien peoples were added to the tens of millions of culturally alien blacks, shuffled together like a deck of cards and everyone was promised that a bridge made of Social Trust could eventually span the abyss to reach Utopia. Entire industries emerged to provide the illusion of productive work while the most effective parasites devised a fraudulent monetary system to arrogate power and wealth beyond measure.

It's all a form a debt. And when the bill FINALLY comes due....

Social Trust is the glue that holds the mountain (of debt, of tolerance, of popular consent) together. When it FINALLY evaporates, the volcano will blow and Hobbes' "state of nature" will be the pyroclastic flow that spreads. We now have a rich assortment of differences over which to wage wars of annihilation.

A Post-Trust world is a well-known fictional genre: the zombie apocalypse. No political-economy "-ism" is going to change the hardships ahead. We've visibly reached the stage where elections are so discredited that citizens send complete morons to ruling positions (Cortez, Omar, Booker); the next phase is that it truly won't matter who's elected, because the consent on which their power rests will be gone.

What happens in Washington DC will cease to be relevant, in favor of what happens in one's county.

Blogger Servant February 28, 2020 11:57 AM  

Four paragraph story about garbage fish from a garbage store. Complaints about minimum wage employees not exactly giving a shit. Celebration of reagan in the light of carter.

Well Boomer, i can think of what should nominally be a fixed asset. A cow in a ranching operation. The market value of a cow fluctuates, and you can take a loan out on it if you are retarded. They sell this as realizing the value.

I'd take socialism over what you'd give us.

Blogger 7916 February 28, 2020 12:06 PM  

Boomers inverted the barriers to entry. Open the borders, close the professions. Open family, cripple religion. Unions performed similar functions during mass inflows of labor, but under boomerism they're on steroids in the public sector.

Economically you raise barriers to the external such as borders, tariffs, and those who are not your people. You don't raise barriers within your country to your own people. You can observe many of those in medicine, education, unionized trades, and public service.

Culturally, you raise barriers to external languages, cultural practices, non-traditional families, non-traditional sex, gender, or biological issues. You don't raise barriers to traditional family formation or practice.

And @27, the most satisfying vengeance on the irksome is to have 4+ children, and know that those whom you describe will have their genes wiped from the earth as if they had never been.

Blogger Neil Patrick Carris February 28, 2020 12:15 PM  

Question for Vox or anyone else who'd like to answer. What kind of campaign do you think President Trump should run against Bernie? My thoughts are to go heavy on immigration, as Bernie is basically an open borders socialist ... I think if Bernie ran on a strong immigration platform, he'd have a very good chance of dethroning ... but he's too much of a panderer to every disadvantaged demographic to hold strong on such a position.

Blogger dc.sunsets February 28, 2020 12:15 PM  

@SJ Meanwhile our boomer parents can't help but brag to us about how great their investments are going. When you explain to them that rising asset prices are essentially wealth transfers from the young to they old and from the poor to the rich, and that we have no hope of home ownership, they just shrug and say "but it's good for me". Sociopaths.

So when your boomer's MSFT goes from $50 to $100/share it's a wealth transfer? From WHOM? You truly haven't a clue from where marginal price arises, but I've given up trying to explain that market capitalization in stocks is literally nothing but mass psychology. One can't explain an abstraction to concrete thinkers.

Home ownership is impossible? I can't understand how all of my kids bought houses (one paid his off already by 31.)

I came across my first car payment paperwork the other day. 16% interest rate. My first house had a 15% mortgage. My payment was almost IDENTICAL in inflation-adjusted terms to what Zillow shows for the very same house today. In the same inflation-adjusted terms I made $32k (2020 dollars) the year I bought that house. I was a debt slave. It sucked. I don't favor it.

One of my kids got a full college scholarship. Another got 3/5th paid scholarship (and a lucrative co-op.) Another finished college in 5 semesters at age 20. None had debt. They LAUGHED at the idiots taking 5 years, or studying useless fields. A fool and his money....

Race. Ethnicity. Age (generation.) Sex. Geography. Dog vs cat. Politics. The list of conflict points over which people will hate and even kill each other when this boom ends is long.

Everyone plays his part...and few see the invisible puppeteer's strings attached to his own arms and legs (and mouth.)

Blogger Stocky Anglo February 28, 2020 12:17 PM  

Is collapsing the financial system the only foreseeable way out of the of the debt bubble?

I may be way of the mark here but I am assuming that socialism is better than the status quo argument is because the likelihood of it crashing the private debt bubble is very high. I agree its necessary but why is that abrupt of a government induced correction a better outcome?

It's all the socialist drag products that are hard to undo, like free healthcare etc..Aren't the long-term impacts of those systems a comparable economic overhead to FIRE sectors, especially in the open borders socialist utopia being sold right now?

My libertarian leanings are really struggling with this one, hence the obvious slant in thinking.

Blogger Crew February 28, 2020 12:22 PM  

Wait. There must be a better solution, errr, option.

Since some people have to sacrifice something, what could the better solution be?

Blogger Unknown February 28, 2020 12:25 PM  

Fun time: pull up an Inflation Calculator online. The kind that says "If in (enter year #1) I purchased an item for (enter dollar amount), then (enter year #2) that same item would cost (result)."

There are plenty of Inflation Calculators online.

Use pay instead of purchase price. For example, we find that $18,000 in 1985 would be $43,155 in 2020. But the fun has only begun.

Minimum wage in 1968 was $1.60. Minimum wage in 2020 is $7.25, or .98 in '68. It's about forty percent less than it was 52 years ago.

That 18k the Boomer made out of college (say 1985)? Well, if one made 18k out of college today, that would be like making just 7.5k out of college back then.

Making 30k now is like making 12.5 then.

$10/hr was normal pay for assembly line workers in the Deep South in '85. That's the same as $24 now. How many unskilled laborers, North or South, are getting $24/hr now?

To anticipate objections: the Inflation Calculators solve for purchasing power. So it does no good to object that a loaf of bread or whatever cost less then.

Part of the creeping cretinization of society is really the
*proletarianisation* of society. The average people you see around you today are much poorer in real terms than the average people you saw around you thirty years ago. Easy credit is what's keeping the average man or woman out of the dumpsters. Electronics gimcracks and "binge-watching" are what's keeping them away from Boomers' throats. When all that goes away, oh boy! Boomers will need to grab a one-way flight to New Zealand and change their names. I imagine a lot of New Zealand immigrants will soon be called Paul, Ringo, Billy (as in Billy Joel), Ronald (Reagan or McDonald) Scout (_To Kill a Mockingbird_), and Jonathan Livingston Seagull.

Blogger Joe Smith February 28, 2020 12:28 PM  

@30 "By the way, somebody needs to tell Jack he needs a basic accounting book to understand what fixed assets are- that they are things that you own that are consumed over a period of years-and other than land, they are always being degraded and used up, so they never go up in value."

Why would you write something that's so obviously untrue? Are you really claiming to believe that, aside from land, fixed assets can't increase in value? That's retarded.

Blogger Unknown February 28, 2020 12:30 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Uncle Maffoo February 28, 2020 12:32 PM  

@Pitchfork Rebel

Whining about fast food has to be the most Boomer thing we've read in a while, which is saying a lot on this blog.

Blogger Unknown February 28, 2020 12:37 PM  

Blacks being blacks means whites should be paid shit? Someone needs to tell you you need a basic logic book and maybe an anger management course.

Blogger John February 28, 2020 12:46 PM  

Um.

The Boomers were political non-entities in the mid-1980's. "The System" was still completely and totally in the hands of the "Silent" and Greatest" generations. The made the board game we've been playing on and little different than today, the game manufacturers and the people who actually get to play are rather small in number. The rest of us are simply sitting in the stands.

Blogger Unknown February 28, 2020 12:46 PM  

Tell us the pay. Then we'll know what to think. Living in DC is expensive, unless one lives in Section 8 and supplements income with food stamps and other gibs which are more liberally sprinkled on the foreigner than the citizen.

Blogger Uncle Maffoo February 28, 2020 12:56 PM  

That $2.50 in 1972 would be worth $15.43 today.

Blogger Jack Amok February 28, 2020 12:58 PM  

When the system is rigged against labor and in favor of investment, the solution is to be a part-time entrepreneur doing the basic work that most people can do, spot bargains, buy stuff, and sell for more.

This comment, and one on the Jack Baruth post complaining about not being able to fill $18/hr entry level positions, miss the most important point.

Being an entrepreneur, part-time or otherwise, is not what the average person is going to do. It's not in their makeup. The folks who are psychologically capable of charting their own course through the economy are always going to do at least sort-of okay, but they're a fairly small percentage of the population. Deltas are the bulk of the male population, and they are not entrepreneurs. Doing what you're suggesting is way out of their comfort zone. They're not leaders, pioneers and risk-takers. They're workers - hard workers, loyal workers, good men who just want someone to show them what needs to be done and reward them fairly for doing it.

Our society doesn't have a place for them, and they're the bulk of our young men.

It's the same problem with the $18/hr entry-level job. $18/hr is under $40k/year. Before taxes. You need 5 to 10 times that to raise a middle-class family today. Sure, the $40k is entry level, but how well does anyone paint a picture for kids of that entry level job quadrupling in salary within 8 years? Alphas and Sigmas can see themselves doing that, but they're not settling for $18/hr entry level wages today. They're reaching for a higher rung on the ladder already. You need Deltas to see that $18/hr entry level job as the default path to a good life, and we send every signal to them that it isn't.

It's one (there are other) reason that Libertarians are hopeless. At best, their ideas only work for a fraction of the male population and leave everyone else to flounder without leadership or protection.

Making sure Alphas have opportunities is never a problem. They'll make their own. Deltas are the ones who need opportunities. The challenge with Alphas is making sure they believe they're better off working within the system than they are replacing it with their own system. A large number of abandoned Deltas wandering around looking for a purpose in life is a pool of resources some Alpha can turn into a rebel army.

Blogger Gen. Kong February 28, 2020 1:02 PM  

Pontificus Maximus wrote:

This post, and the article from which it was sourced, is truly spot on(!). To effectively assign blame to the Boomer-O’s, however, we needs be more specific. One way to do this would be a steadfast campaign to make The Clintons the face of Boomerism.

The Clintons - and Jorge W. Busheron - are the very epitome of boomerism. The article makes a point similar to one made by VD well over a year ago which ruffled feathers of some: namely that despite the many wrongs of socialism, the countries of the former Warsaw Pact were better off culturally than the so-called "free world" and its "free markets". Both of these terms are lies at the root. There is nothing free about a rigged market and there is nothing free about a rigged political system where the two "opposing" sides consist of the equivalent of the Harlem Globetrotters and Washington Generals. There is nothing intrinsic to socialism which makes it more immune to the same problem. Bloomberg would be just as comfortable being a high-ranking member of the party who is above the law as he is being an oligarch who is above the law.

Blogger Jim February 28, 2020 1:08 PM  

"But it is a better option than continuing the post-1965 trajectory of driving the price of labor ever downward in order to keep the usury pumps going."

Except that's what socialism is. It must be international in scope, otherwise producers can leave. It's important for the American to be in the same boat as the Russian and the Chinese and the Zimbabwean. The only real difference is while the current system attacks labor on the supply side, socialism attacks it on both supply and demand. Same trajectory, greater velocity.

Blogger Uncle Maffoo February 28, 2020 1:11 PM  

Game Theory is mathematically sound. Insanity is sometimes the price one has to pay for brilliance.

Blogger ace February 28, 2020 1:13 PM  

My son started selling body pillows on eBay at age 14 and now he's making 120k a year by trapping on chaturbate. The problem with today's kids is a lack of work ethic. Millennials just don't want a real job. They just need to man up and find a nice girl on Tinder. Avocados. Handshakes.

Blogger tublecane February 28, 2020 1:23 PM  

"The wealthiest of the Baby Boomers deliberately created a world in which..."

I find this claim dubious. Since when have they been competent enough to do anything on purpose? More likely it was a happy (for them) accident. And that's not to mention that the chief instruments of their success--central banking, free trade, dollar imperialism, etc.--were not created by themselves.

Bernie-style socialism is a false alternative, in that though he may actually wish to soak the rich and expand the welfare state, I don't see him ending empire or breaking up the bankster caetel. The soaking would be done at a level which would leave the Masters of the Universe still masters.

Important point about expanding the Welfare State, we already have one. That's why it can be expanded. We already have this set-up, established back during the 1930s, whereby we get the Corporate State run by the Managerial Class, with overseas empire, a banking cartel, international trade, and a Welfare State to keep people happy and in line. Later virtually unlimited immigration and women in the workplace were added.

Expanding part of it--the welfare part--and contracting a bit on the private profit part merely readjusts the balance of doesn't affect the set-up. We already tried the big shift toward socialism with the New Deal, and it resulted in the Moneyed Class losing control to the Dancing Philosophers but still making out like bandits. And corporacrats would continue to make out like bandits under Bernie.

Blogger Crush Limbraw February 28, 2020 1:34 PM  

VD - the "I lived under socialism for 21 years of my life and no VD - thank you very much. I’ll pass."
To which you answered:
"Congratulations on completely missing the point." -

illustrates perfectly DaLastWar mindset of most Conservatives. They can't get the point because of their Ingrained Presuppositions and Binary thinking - long established and deep rooted - so they respond to words and catch phrases which they can't even define coherently. I know, for it took me years to work out of it, as I describe in a post by that title in DaLimbraw Library earlier this month.

BTW - I have noticed that the Conservative 'controlled opposition' websites really pound on the catch word 'Socialism' and then the commenting choir sings Amen!

Bottom line and to repeat - until that thick crust of ingrained presuppositions and binary thinking is whittled away, the conversion rate will be slow at best - but so what, full speed ahead!

Blogger Arthur Isaac February 28, 2020 1:35 PM  

Enclave living for me. A commune is better than laissez faire idiocy in that world. Our nation's are about to be small enough where everyone in it knows your name.

Blogger Grey Man February 28, 2020 1:35 PM  

Under Socialism the borders close themselves once there’s isn’t anything left worth looting. Right now immigration is just a means to an end.

Blogger tublecane February 28, 2020 1:50 PM  

@25- It has become not exactly a generational thing but an anti-Boomer thing. Ya know, there have technically been almost three generations post-Boomer, and despite what we say in internet comments none of them has distinguished themselves as a generation like the Boomers. This a trick of demographics and historical circumstance.

The Welfare State is a Ponzi Scheme or a Peter-Paul operation. Propaganda sells it was you paying in now to check out later having duly participated in the System. But every idiot knows it's vulnerable to "I'mma get mine; screw everyone else." And perpetually it is productive people in the present supporting gibsmedat in the present. (Naturally, the productive and the gibsmedatians are often one and the same person.) All is the present.

Boomers didn't start the Welfare State. Intelligent people knew Social Security, for instance, would never work as sold. That is, an old-age insurance program. It's debatable whether it could ever work, but it was definitely going to fail one the Boom happened. Because Boomers were never going to have enough kids to cover themselves.

What is the almost inevitable outcome when you have these programs that supposedly pay off in old age as generations pass and one generation is so much bigger than others? Assuming the whole economy doesn't collapse in the meantime? Oh, and add the fact that this giant generation inherited a fundamentally successful economy with global authority. From which it benefited but which it definitely did not create.

Even if Boomers did nothing, never voted themselves more benefit programs, they'd still eat up the bennies. Unless there had been some kind of economic miracle to make them the most productive generation ever. And that wasn't going to happen in a Welfare State with lazy, selfish softies devoid of all pioneer spirit.

Obviously it was partly their fault, for not planning for the future. But their grandparents and parents set up a system that dissuaded taking care of oneself. Then there was a dyscivilizational Cultural Revolution, partly their fault, which further degraded bourgeois responsibility. But not entirely their fault.

Blogger Poco February 28, 2020 1:53 PM  

He didn't advocate socialism. He is pointing out that it is understandable that people who are hopeless will turn to some kind of hoped for relief. Usury finance capitalism is driving the younger white generation to the wall.

Blogger tublecane February 28, 2020 1:56 PM  

@39- No, Men's Rights fails because that's men trying to beat women at women's own game. They are masters of the victim card. Even if our Powers That Be recognized the justice of their claims--which they never would--they'd simply respond: "Get in line, poor souls." The end of the line, that is. There they would wait until they rot.

It's like a White Civil Rights Movement trying to get ahead by playing the Dieversity game. A nonstarter.

Blogger tweell February 28, 2020 2:01 PM  

This is why my oldest granddaughter and her husband are living at my house. I gave them the master bedroom, moved to the back bedroom, not asking for rent. It's what I can do to help them get ahead. Helping my children as well, but they are doing okay for the most part. A family starting out right now is so screwed in comparison to how I had it, it's unreal.

Blogger Brett baker February 28, 2020 2:08 PM  

Silver is the working man's metal.

Blogger ace February 28, 2020 2:09 PM  

The problem has nothing to do with wages or work ethic. The monogamous contract has been broken. Going from 20 to 30 and beyond with no viable marriage prospects is soul killing. Monogamy is societal skin in the game for low SMV males. Men will work for money, even fight for it, but will only do so wholeheartedly if they have a family at stake. The real boomerism is thinking it is about money or assets in the first place. It's a reversal of cause and effect. These are the same people that whatever is good for the GDP is good for the country. Throwing deltas to the fully hypergamized lions and expecting them to emerge as fully invested suit wearing members of society by mid 30s is ludicrous.

Blogger Brett baker February 28, 2020 2:11 PM  

+1

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants February 28, 2020 2:11 PM  

1) If you order a fish sandwich out of the rush time of lunch and dinner, they have to be made fresh
2) if it is a slow time, the oil is often cold and needs heating back up and dropping frozen fish patties in not completely hot oil will drop the oil temps, and cause the patty to quickly absorb a ton of oil and become a disgusting gloopy mess
3) obviously this is what happened and they had to start over from the beginning to make your sandwiches by properly reheating the oil, making sure it reached the correct temp and THEN dropping the patties. Maybe this was done by 85 IQ ethnics or by careless teens. In any event, they didn't try to pawn the grease pockets off on you, so you shouldn't complain too much
4) your 2nd restaurant obviously already had properly heated oil, likely from a recent order of fries
5) I'm an olderGenXer and I remember the Carter years quite well. It wasn't *that* bad,ffs
6) St. Reagan (who I voted for and volunteered at the RNC for) of the Iran Contra, no fault divorce,amnesty of Cali,was no saint and those are just 3 examples of his bad decisions
7) Oh, forgot to add the "ushered the Jew NeoCons into the GOP on a red carpet" failure
8) McDonalds is terrible for you, anyway, Boomer. Stop expecting your grandkids to pay for your future nurse, Shaniqua, while you shove down Mickey D's.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants February 28, 2020 2:19 PM  

I'd rather tell someone I had pedophile leanings than admit I had libertarian leanings. :D

Blogger Ominous Cowherd February 28, 2020 2:22 PM  

Arthur Isaac, Whitestone?

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants February 28, 2020 2:28 PM  

I was with you until the "Boomers finishing college in 85" part. Yes, some were, thrones who straddled the Boomer/GenX line, but the Boomers who really got the best hind milk were those like my hubby, Bill Clinton, George Bush, and Trump-the FIRST wave. Those who 2ere born in the 1946-52 range. The ones in the 1953-59 range had less success and the 1960-64 gang were basically indistinguishable from us 1965-70 GenXers.
IOW, all Boomers were not created equal.
I really did enjoy your closing paragraph. Thx for the laugh.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 February 28, 2020 2:30 PM  

dc.sunsets wrote:@SJ Meanwhile our boomer parents can't help but brag to us about how great their investments are going. When you explain to them that rising asset prices are essentially wealth transfers from the young to they old and from the poor to the rich, and that we have no hope of home ownership, they just shrug and say "but it's good for me". Sociopaths.

So when your boomer's MSFT goes from $50 to $100/share it's a wealth transfer? From WHOM? You truly haven't a clue from where marginal price arises, but I've given up trying to explain that market capitalization in stocks is literally nothing but mass psychology. One can't explain an abstraction to concrete thinkers.

Home ownership is impossible? I can't understand how all of my kids bought houses (one paid his off already by 31.)

I came across my first car payment paperwork the other day. 16% interest rate. My first house had a 15% mortgage. My payment was almost IDENTICAL in inflation-adjusted terms to what Zillow shows for the very same house today. In the same inflation-adjusted terms I made $32k (2020 dollars) the year I bought that house. I was a debt slave. It sucked. I don't favor it.

One of my kids got a full college scholarship. Another got 3/5th paid scholarship (and a lucrative co-op.) Another finished college in 5 semesters at age 20. None had debt. They LAUGHED at the idiots taking 5 years, or studying useless fields. A fool and his money....

Race. Ethnicity. Age (generation.) Sex. Geography. Dog vs cat. Politics. The list of conflict points over which people will hate and even kill each other when this boom ends is long.

Everyone plays his part...and few see the invisible puppeteer's strings attached to his own arms and legs (and mouth.)


OK Boomer.

Been debt free for years now. I still can't afford a house. I work, I save, and I live a mostly clean life with very little in the way of material goods.

And I cannot afford a house. Because I'd have to save a whole lot of money up just for the down payment.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants February 28, 2020 2:32 PM  

BTW, when I graduated college in 1987, my first job as a glorified secretary at an insurance company paid me 10 an hour and I had zero college debt or any other kind of debt. I didn't get credit of any kind until 1992, to buy a house. I didn't get a credit card until 2000.

Blogger OneWingedShark February 28, 2020 2:39 PM  

dc.sunsets wrote:There is no path ahead that defuses the Doomsday Device constructed since the 1960's.
I disagree, God clearly says that he will turn away from the destruction he has planned for Nations should they turn away from their evil and seek Him.

Servant wrote:I'd take socialism over what you'd give us.
Socialism doesn't necessarily destroy the culture/community in the basic sense, but the ever growing importation of foreigners does. Which is one of the big things about that 60s immigration 'reform', and throwing socialism atop that is just begging for problems.

7916 wrote:Boomers inverted the barriers to entry. Open the borders, close the professions. Open family, cripple religion. Unions performed similar functions during mass inflows of labor, but under boomerism they're on steroids in the public sector.
That's a very insightful observation.

dc.sunsets wrote:@SJ Meanwhile our boomer parents can't help but brag to us about how great their investments are going. When you explain to them that rising asset prices are essentially wealth transfers from the young to they old and from the poor to the rich, and that we have no hope of home ownership, they just shrug and say "but it's good for me". Sociopaths.

So when your boomer's MSFT goes from $50 to $100/share it's a wealth transfer?

Given what we know about BigTech and the H1B fraud: Obviously.
They're withholding paying a good wage to a citizen, instead importing a "cheap" foreign laborer. So they strip the job from the Citizen-children, preferring instead the foreign.

Renbo wrote:Is collapsing the financial system the only foreseeable way out of the of the debt bubble?
I think this *really* depends on the definitions in-use: What are "collapse" and "financial system"?
There *are* ways out, but most options are never talked about because of the people that are currently in power.

Jack Amok wrote:Making sure Alphas have opportunities is never a problem. They'll make their own. Deltas are the ones who need opportunities. The challenge with Alphas is making sure they believe they're better off working within the system than they are replacing it with their own system. A large number of abandoned Deltas wandering around looking for a purpose in life is a pool of resources some Alpha can turn into a rebel army.
I'm not even sure that "an Alpha" is needed here, Bernie isn't really an Alpha politically-speaking and he's doing a fair job rallying such disaffected. — OTOH Trump is pushing out "the best economy ever" and "black/Hispanic/women unemployment at an all-time low" sorts of campaigning.

tublecane wrote:"The wealthiest of the Baby Boomers deliberately created a world in which…"

I find this claim dubious. Since when have they been competent enough to do anything on purpose?

Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice. See: “I’m spending my children’s inheritance!”

Blogger OneWingedShark February 28, 2020 2:46 PM  

tweell wrote:This is why my oldest granddaughter and her husband are living at my house. I gave them the master bedroom, moved to the back bedroom, not asking for rent. It's what I can do to help them get ahead. Helping my children as well, but they are doing okay for the most part. A family starting out right now is so screwed in comparison to how I had it, it's unreal.
May God bless you.
And Thank You.

Blogger sammibandit February 28, 2020 2:46 PM  

Yet another opportunity for boomers to plead their case squandered. Just as it was boomers' idea to give out participation trophies it was their idea to expect bespoke service to them for peanuts on the dollar.

Their chief argument for such expectations is summed thusly,
The wealthiest of the Baby Boomers deliberately created a world in which they’d pay less for the things they wanted (employees, labor, televisions) while being paid more for the things they owned (real estate, index funds, 1959 Les Pauls, 1985 Porsche 911s).

They'll phrase it differently, however. They still streamed/schooled with Al Gore and Dan Quayle like simbiotes picking their leavings. "I made my bones. They're my bones, you can't have bones. Bones are for people who made bones. I made my bones". Well that's bunk which is why the newer argument, as seen here, is that they took care of their kids. Great, so your kids aren't jerks. Why are you a jerk?

If you pay peanuts don't be surprised if you get monkeys.

Blogger CharityBear February 28, 2020 3:05 PM  

Boomers refused to weed the garden and instead completely submerged themselves in pleasures. Their negligence won't be overlooked.

Blogger Patrick Kelly February 28, 2020 3:07 PM  

RE: Clinton - He's my 4th favorite POTUS in my lifetime, behind Trump, Nixon, and Reagan, and his era Fed Gov't was fiscally more conservative than any since. Not much of a recommendation.

Never come close to my parent's lifestyle as an adult. Was looking almost that good for about 8 months earlier this century. Too much employment and family instability to get any better since then. Grateful for what I have now, more grateful for my family and close knit community. Glad to help the children out as much as I can.

Blogger Balam February 28, 2020 3:10 PM  

@69 - The victim card is the tactic, systemic debasement is the strategy. One is the implementation of the other.

You even say that the Powers that Be ignore justice in their rulings. The ruling was preset before playing the _____ card ever entered the picture, the ___ card just makes a good route to get to that goal as a retroactive justification. The existence of the oppression Olympics hierarchy demonstrates this. For example the most unrepentant male immigrant criminals get off light for hideous crimes not because male immigrant groups are good at appealing to people's emotions and protective instincts like women. It is because that is how the system is currently designed.

I'm not disagreeing with your assertion that women are good at playing victim. It's fair to say "my unit got wiped out by AR-15s" but I believe that "my unit got wiped out because the government wanted us to die and sent us into a situation that made it likely" is more useful to act on and respond to.

Blogger VD February 28, 2020 3:17 PM  

Home ownership is impossible? I can't understand how all of my kids bought houses (one paid his off already by 31.)

You're exactly the kind of Boomer that everyone will celebrate being smothered. You are so astonishingly and reliably obnoxious that I would gleefully smother you with a pillow myself.

The only reason I don't ban you is because you create more Boomer hate among the readers here than I could possibly stoke on my own.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 28, 2020 3:30 PM  

VD wrote:The only reason I don't ban you is because you create more Boomer hate among the readers here than I could possibly stoke on my own.
The cruelty artist still has it.

Blogger tublecane February 28, 2020 3:39 PM  

@85- I'll give it to you that some groups benefit off the established Dieversity Hierarchy through no effort of their own. Male illegal immigrant criminals stand on the shoulders of the mau-mauing minorities and soft-headed whites who came before them.

Women, too, benefit from rules of a game not set up by themselves. They never could have set it up themselves. But they are the ones best-equipped to play it their way. Which essentially is to out-compete others in exploiting male weakness.

Blogger DustRoad February 28, 2020 3:43 PM  

Gen X/Millenial/Gen Z: Things are certainly a lot worse than they used to be.

Boomer: Things are just fine and dandy for me, so that can't be true.

Will Boomer solipsism ever end?

Are they even sentient?

Will just one take even partial responsibility for this mess before they die off?

Or even just recognise that there's a problem?

Don't hold your breath, but if it ever happens screenshot it. Historians can then argue throughout the ages over whether it actually happened.

Blogger tublecane February 28, 2020 3:54 PM  

@72- You're onto something. It's pervasive in mainstream thinking on economics. Which at this moment is of course dominated by the Boomer mind.

For instance, I'm hearing a guy talk about the effect of the plague on the Economy on a news channel, and he's all: "People will stay home and not spend money at restaurants" or whatever. With no explanation as to why this should necessarily be a bad thing. Except I guess that it disrupts what is at present a conventional set of expected transactions.

Granted, a chain of jobs depends on people showing up to buy restaurant services. But what if the customers would be better off not spending their money that way?

What is the Economy, after all? Economic decisions people had been making up to half a second ago to put you in the position you find yourself? If you're a Boomer, probably a comfortable position. Or is it the thing which enables you to live your preferred life? Even if that might entail disruption and course-correction?

Like maybe not squandering your money on restaurants and rather enjoying a homestead with children scampering on a prairie? I dunno.

Blogger SirHamster February 28, 2020 3:56 PM  

> you create more Boomer hate among the readers here than I could possibly stoke on my own.

Boomers can't understand that "shut up" is the kindest advice being given to them.

Blogger Silly but True February 28, 2020 4:35 PM  

In the mid-1980s, the Boomers were called Yuppies, and they were honing the same self-absorbed greedy bastardly ways we see in Boomers now. They consumed our culture: Michael Douglas is a Boomer — and his portrayal as Gordon Gecko in 1987’s “Wallstreet” (“Greed is Good!”) was the epitome of modern, contemporary Boomerism.

Blogger Uncle Maffoo February 28, 2020 4:41 PM  

@47

Home ownership is impossible? I can't understand how all of my kids bought houses (one paid his off already by 31.)

Moving to shitty, undesirable areas? I could buy a dump foreclosure in the Birmingham ghetto tomorrow if I wanted to. Or a garden home out in the middle of nowhere and get a 90 minute commute to work along with it.

My first house had a 15% mortgage. My payment was almost IDENTICAL in inflation-adjusted terms to what Zillow shows for the very same house today. In the same inflation-adjusted terms I made $32k (2020 dollars) the year I bought that house. I was a debt slave. It sucked. I don't favor it.

Something doesn't jive with what you're telling us. Mortgages were 15% most recently in the period 1982-1984. Let's just say you bought your house in '83, when the average new home price was $82,600, and the median existing home price was $70,300 (all in 1983 dollars). If your income was $32k in 2020 dollars, then it would have been about $12,350 in 1983. With a 20% down payment and a $56,000 loan, and assuming ZERO property tax, PMI, insurance, etc., the monthly payment on a 30-year term would be $708.

Furthermore, based on your comment history here and the old AlphaGame, you are age 60 at most, so you were at most 23 back in 1983. And I'm supposed to believe that by that point in your life, you not only stashed 14 grand in the bank, but also had the credit history to get a loan where the payment was more than HALF your monthly gross (not take-home, but gross)?

Blogger Rattlesnake_Kid February 28, 2020 4:51 PM  

TMLutas wrote:The tilted system of the "post-1965 trajectory" is better than socialism because it's entirely possible to not be a sucker.

You are either a fool, or you are sticking your head in the sand.

Failure to repair American demographics means certain war on American soil and a good chance that the USA officially ends, along with the possibility that the American people are wiped out forever.

While living under Communism certainly is terrible, the people and country can continue, and even go on to prosper. Look at Poland.

Blogger Br'er Shaygetz February 28, 2020 4:51 PM  

I am grateful that I serve a God who only holds me accountable for my sins...not me and my fellow boomers...just mine. One day all of us will stand before Him regardless of birth order and, like the rich man in Jesus' story, we won't have any defense or pleas before the court, for we will know then that we are guilty of any and all charges brought against us. We will only beg for the mercy of one drop of water from the finger of those we ignored the most, and for a miracle for those we love not to come to this place of flame and torment. One day, we will all bow the knee and proclaim "Jesus is Lord", some to their eternal glory, the rest to their eternal undoing, and all with a willing and joyful heart, and not as some pinned schoolyard punk forced to cry 'Uncle'.

Should you find yourselves on the victor's side of whatever storm comes, I hope you will remember this.

Blogger PH February 28, 2020 5:25 PM  

Libertarianism means don't use force except in self defence. As for borders, some libertarians are for borders and some are against.

Blogger Pathfinderlight February 28, 2020 5:48 PM  

Dismantling a usury based economy is a benefit to the nation as a whole and perfectly in line with Christian values.

Anonymous Anonymous February 28, 2020 5:52 PM  

You don't get it, 95.

Nobody here is advocating the mass extermination of boomers (although God knows a lot of us have very mixed emotions on the subject), all we're doing is predicting it, because you know what?

You earned it.

Don't make that "you" personal and thereby prove you're guilty.

Blogger OneWingedShark February 28, 2020 5:55 PM  

DustRoad wrote:Will just one take even partial responsibility for this mess before they die off?
Or even just recognize that there's a problem?

No, I cynically half-expect for them to try to legally mandate younger generations to care for them in their old age.
"You have to care for your elders!" they whine, after having burnt all their bridges… and were it not for 1 1 Timothy 5:8, I'd be very tempted to nod and say "Cut them off completely, let them die in the streets!" But, as it is there, we should heed it.

Br'er Shaygetz wrote:I am grateful that I serve a God who only holds me accountable for my sins...not me and my fellow boomers...just mine.
Just one of my sins is enough to rightfully and Justly send me to Hell: it is only by the work of Jesus on the Cross that I am saved from that fate.
Praise Jesus!

Blogger Joe Smith February 28, 2020 5:55 PM  

DustRoad wrote:Are they even sentient?

That's hilarious. And no.

Blogger Arthur Isaac February 28, 2020 6:40 PM  

Ominous Cowherd: I have friends out there but that's not really my way of living yet. I knew folks at SAPA before it went down. Check out AKTrapper and Far North Bushcraft and Survival on YouTube. Those will my type of folks.



Blogger Oswald February 28, 2020 6:50 PM  

I always wanted a 928. My brother loved the 911 though. Of course, he knows cars, and I don't.

Blogger papabear February 28, 2020 7:03 PM  

@70 God bless you and yours.

Blogger sammibandit February 28, 2020 7:03 PM  

Not sure they're sapient either.

Blogger Oswald February 28, 2020 7:10 PM  

74. Cold oil would be an unlikely reason for poor fish quality, because the vat of oil used at a place like McDonald's would always be maintained through out the day at a precise temperature. This is true of all fast food places. More likely they were jacking with him.

Blogger 7916 February 28, 2020 7:32 PM  

OT: Greece may now be sinking the ships.

Is there anything Corona-chan can't do?

Blogger Doom February 28, 2020 7:53 PM  

I feel much better.

I was just thinking that a few days ago. I then went through stages of emotional turmoil about the understanding. The truth hurts.

I was thinking more of nazis on the right, but Bernie on the left is the same... difference. Both will end up murdering me, for one of dozens of reasons, but they work on that currently. I don't think it matters who wins now, I'm on all lists. Might as well pick a group favoring "my people", even if it will fail.

Blogger Yukichi Sensei February 28, 2020 7:54 PM  

If the young can beat the materialism of the boomers, we will not have any extra wealth to 'transfer' to them.

Focus on non-material goods, and build our communities. Also skills. There is something to say for Benedictine style group living.

Blogger Mr Smith February 28, 2020 8:32 PM  

No, the majority of LOLbertarians are for open borders. Those against are very rare, because it goes against the philosophy.

Blogger Lurker February 28, 2020 8:50 PM  

Bottom line and to repeat - until that thick crust of ingrained presuppositions and binary thinking is whittled away, the conversion rate will be slow at best - but so what, full speed ahead!

Vox knows that, he wrote the book (literally) on CUCKservatards. Cuckservatism is controlled opposition aka "useful idiots" that the communists talked about.

Blogger John Rockwell February 28, 2020 8:51 PM  

Bernie being opening borders tho. That's a double whammy

Blogger The Pitchfork Rebel February 28, 2020 9:00 PM  

@44
Idiot, I’m not a boomer. I just choose to carry my cross. My name isn’t Kennedy, Hart or Celler. Nobody alive gave us the Fed, the Federal Income Tax, the New Deal. The earliest Boomers couldn't even vote when the Great Society came along.

I am not going to excuse people from doing their job because it’s minimum wage. Some of us were smart enough to figure out that the value of a minimum wage job was as an audition for something else. You don’t get to care about your job only when it reaches a magic wage level.

Stop excusing the inner-city horseshit. I’d have killed to have a McDonald’s in my town rather than washing dishes in a diner when I was fifteen. And livestock is not a fixed asset anywhere but in your head.

Of course you’d take socialism.

https://nationaleconomicseditorial.com/2017/05/25/weak-men-prefer-socialism/

@51

Retarded is not knowing than fixed assets are DEPRECIATED. Never go full retard.

@53

It wasn’t “fast”. I repeat, I’m not a boomer, but if you feel better saying it, whatever.

@54

Precisely. I’ve observed this behavior among inner city blacks over and over. It doesn’t matter where.

The suburban white kid a couple miles up road delivers the food quickly and isn’t paid a premium. But when the attentive and proficient suburban white kids get promoted too often, then the entire enterprise is subject to claims of “disparate impact” discrimination and they’ll be blackmailed into paying some politically connected “diversity consultant”. Even wokey woke Starbucks had to prostrate itself to the diversity god and shut down for a day. There are people and some disproportionately in some groups that are getting paid low wages because they suck as employees, not because of any nefarious “boomer” plot. The only person who mentioned inner city work habits was mini-Mike, because we’re not supposed to notice “cultural differences” in things like attentiveness.



@74.
Where did I say I went out of rush time, dullard? Some McDonald’s have a steady stream of customers from 6AM to 10PM. What kind of horseshit explanation is it that the fryer can only handle two things at a time and needs five minutes to get back up. A couple fish patties aren’t liquid nitrogen.

But obviously you skipped over the part where I said I drove two miles to another McD’s “staffed differently” and everything went well. Nobody is going to die from eating a damn fish sandwich once or twice a year and nobody is going to live forever eating anything else.

While some of you seem to enjoy your inane “OK Boomer” retort whenever somebody says reality is playing the cards your are dealt, don’t be surprised when you are branded as much a whiner as the losers of the left that scream “racism” ,“sexism” , “white privilege”, “homophobia” and “islamophobia” to explain the fact that their egos write checks their abilities can’t cash.

Understand this. It isn’t going to do anything to change your circumstances or improve your condition or worsen that of people that disagree with you to use “Boomer” as an insult.

And while you think you are going to inherit the world from “boomers” in a tontine exercise, there’s every indication that Gen Z has a contingent of active pragmatists that are going to leapfrog some of you.

https://altright.com/2017/09/28/generation-z-will-form-the-backbone-of-the-coming-populist-right-revival/

Blogger Jack Amok February 28, 2020 9:44 PM  

Libertarianism means don't use force except in self defence. As for borders, some libertarians are for borders and some are against.

Libertarians have such a useless understanding of "use force" that they might as well define their philosophy as "hope the wolf gets full eating the other rabbits first, then there'll be more lettuce for me."

Blogger Arthur Isaac February 28, 2020 10:26 PM  

Hey Ominous Cowherd, in another time I'd invite you over to AK Coffee Roasters. We ought to meet up sometime.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( LeMoron James loves knife murder ) February 29, 2020 1:40 AM  

30. The Pitchfork Rebel February 28, 2020 10:55 AM
I went to ... McDonalds



i think i have identified your primary problem.

Blogger Janus February 29, 2020 3:13 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger OvergrownHobbit February 29, 2020 4:56 AM  

Let's exclude fast food and just examine McDonald's. It's very heritage American. It's also at the same time a good canary in the coal mine for social trends.

The former: Anyone can get a job there. Anyone. The autistic daughter of a nice Christian family I know gets driven to work by her parents the nearest one. And they promote from within. It is only as "dead end" as the employee wants to make it. They use their clout to get the beef industry to play decent.

Aaaaand. They went full potato on the carbs / trans fats thing. We'll know we've finally beaten the &%$! vegetarians when they bring back beef tallow for the fries. Pick your stupid social poison, they go with the flow - not actively. But if MickyD does it, you know it's full normyville now.

Blogger Brett baker February 29, 2020 6:51 AM  

LOL!

Blogger TMLutas February 29, 2020 8:37 AM  

@58 You are right that being an entrepreneur is way out of a lot of people's comfort zone. There are people who you have to shoot to stop them from being an entrepreneur. Gary Vaynerchuck is a great example. There are people who would rather die than trade. Then there is the vast bulk of the population that is somewhere in between. They are influenceable and can be persuaded by social pressure to go one way or another. If you push them one way, you have an oversupply of labor and the sucky situation Vox is talking about. If you push them the other way, the scam breaks because the extra money people are making in favored sectors ends up being eaten up by new entrants.

I like the second one better. It ends the scam. So pardon me while I toot that horn for everyone to get a side gig and invest in your own business. It's a revolutionary act that doesn't mean I have to prostrate myself before some socialist nomenklatura. To hell with that.

I have a son. I spent half a decade training him to think like an entrepreneur, to spot opportunity, to make his own place. He's going to do all right. Society didn't make a place for him. I raised him to make his own place. Others should do the same. There's an entire subculture out there devoted to helping people walk that path.

And along the way he's going to hire plenty of people who aren't entrepreneurs. Not only is he taking himself out of the workforce competing for jobs but he's also going to be building labor demand, hiring those who haven't yet made the jump to working for themselves, or are as you say, incapable of making that jump.

Too many alphas want to be stock traders, who hire few people, instead of going into businesses where they have broader hiring footprints.

Blogger TMLutas February 29, 2020 8:55 AM  

@94 Before you accuse me of putting my head in the sand, you might consider that in a thread about 2nd choices, my opinions about immigration weren't written down. I believe that we're oversubscribed on new Americans from abroad and need to rework the number of people admitted down. In your words, repairing american demographics.

Socialism isn't the answer to anything, especially because the same people who are advocating socialism are advocating open borders. It's not one or the other on their menu but both.

Blogger sammibandit February 29, 2020 10:10 AM  

Then there is the vast bulk of the population that is somewhere in between. They are influenceable and can be persuaded by social pressure to go one way or another.

You're a terrible salesman, TMLutas. You made a cardinal sin in sales by insulting your customer. First you called them fat ("vast bulk" is not good diction) and then you called them sheepish ("can be persuaded by social pressure"--where's your personal army?). Newsflash buddy, if you have to explain your rhetoric it didn't land the first go.

What's more you showed another boomerism. Your focused on fancy pants and assume material acquisition is primary in motivating work and that Americans aren't motivated enough in the produce/consume cycle. Run faster, little rat, right?

Blogger Uncle Maffoo February 29, 2020 11:09 AM  

If you don't want strangers to think you're a Boomer, then don't act like one.

Blogger Joe Smith February 29, 2020 11:18 AM  

@112 OK Boomer.

Blogger SJ February 29, 2020 11:29 AM  

Ok boomer

Blogger eclecticme February 29, 2020 2:06 PM  

@45. 7916

The best situation is to have a govt protected job then screw everyone else by making them compete with the third world. Govt employment is one way, having a govt enforced certificate is another. Heathcare is one way to do the later. Both create govt enforced barriers to entry. Then remove tariffs so US citizens in manufacturing have wages driven down as they work as low paid service jobs. Then flood the country with immigrants to further drive down wages.

As a govt protected person you advocate open borders because you are not 'racist' and you get cheap nannies and lawn care. Oppose tariffs because 'free trade is good' and you want cheap stuff. Only 'ignorant' people want closed borders and tariffs. In reality the govt job protection is a very high barrier and efftively a tariff if not a closed border to non-citizens.

Blogger eclecticme February 29, 2020 2:46 PM  

Misc thoughts, from imperfect memory.

In early 1970s one semester credit tuition at a state university could be paid for with X hours of minimum wage work. Today it costs 6 times as many hours of minimum wage work. If a boomer does not know this explain it to them or tell them to STFU.

In early 1960s you could buy a gallon of gas for 20 cents. If you still have those two dimes today you can pay for a gallon of gas. The dimes were made of silver. Most boomers do not know this when discussing older prices.

I do understand what VD is saying. This is a little OT. I have many problems with the proposed socialism. I noticed decades ago that when liberals threaten to eat the rich they never follow through. Someone, likely Ayn Rand, pointed out that after the mob gets worked up the leaders change the target. See how Obama protected the banksters.

The modern socialist leaders are grossly incompetent. I think the Obamacare software cost 1000x a reasonable cost. The recent Iowa caucus software was cheap, given the simple tasks, but it did not work.

Scaling socialism up to a national level does not work. Norway has national healthcare and tariffs and a population about the same size as MN. Free MN from federal laws might work to achieve similar results.

I am very anti socialst and have sensitive anti PC antennae. I have watched and read Michael Hudson and appreciate what he says and writes.

Does Gen Z realize that immigration drives down their wages or is this 'racist' thought? Do they believe in the man made global warming hoax and in green energy?

Blogger Jack Amok February 29, 2020 2:59 PM  

They are influenceable and can be persuaded by social pressure to go one way or another.

They can be persuaded, but not transformed. You might badger a Delta into starting a side-gig, but you're not going to make him comfortable enough making the critical decisions needed to weather the storms of being in business for himself. You'll just influence him into failure.

Too many alphas want to be stock traders...

Yes, that's exactly the problem. Too many leaders in the Boomer cohort wanted to shuffle money around instead of producing something of actual value. It didn't start with them of course, but it hit its zenith with 'em. Boomers are the generation of day trading, outsourcing, and eliminating every margin of safety to juice up the P/E ratio. Their craptastic leadership has left the country a hollowed out shell.

Waiting for Pillow-Chan.

Blogger Greg Hunt February 29, 2020 5:52 PM  

@PH Reverse mortgages.

Blogger TMLutas February 29, 2020 7:17 PM  

@121 Thanks for showing exactly how social pressure to not be entrepreneurial works. It's dishonest and doesn't really help anyone but it sure made you feel good.

@127 There's no need to be transformed. It's just work. They can hate their work situation and be in a red queen's race against too high immigration or hate it and have a nice lifestyle business. This whole thread is not about the best solution but about realistic 2nd place solutions.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd February 29, 2020 9:16 PM  

Jack Amok wrote:They can be persuaded, but not transformed. You might badger a Delta into starting a side-gig, but you're not going to make him comfortable enough making the critical decisions needed to weather the storms of being in business for himself.
If you have a trade, you can do it freelance on the weekends. Wiring somebody's house, changing brakes on somebody's car, stuff like that. That's a long step from being in business, but it's as close as a Delta is going to want to come to it.

Blogger Akulkis March 01, 2020 1:57 AM  

"Does Gen Z realize that immigration drives down their wages or is this 'racist' thought? Do they believe in the man made global warming hoax and in green energy?"

White members of Gen-Z are generally sick of their turd-world classmates.

Blogger Akulkis March 01, 2020 10:19 AM  

Here's what Gen Z thinks about things:

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2016/11/10/royal-oak-middle-wall-viral/93582256/

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2016/11/10/royal-oak-students-chant-build-wall-cafeteria/93581592/

https://patch.com/michigan/royaloak/royal-oak-students-chant-build-wall-school-cafeteria

https://abcnews.go.com/US/students-chant-build-wall-middle-school-cafeteria-day/story?id=43451771

https://www.mlive.com/news/2016/11/royal_oak_middle_school_studen.html

https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/28/health/build-a-wall-viral-video-collateral-damage-middle-school/index.html

Contrary to the CNN narration, Royal Oak was not "trying to heal itself" as nobody cared.

The only people upset by a bunch of 5~8th graders chanting "Build the wall" were the "Hispanic Activist" lunchroom attendant, a couple south-of-the-border kids with guilty consciences because they know they don't belong here, and, of course, the local (((news media))).

Everybody else, was, for the most part, happy to see that Gen-Z is turning out to be far more level-headed than Millenials.

Blogger Jack Amok March 01, 2020 1:40 PM  

If you have a trade, you can do it freelance on the weekends. Wiring somebody's house, changing brakes on somebody's car, stuff like that. That's a long step from being in business, but it's as close as a Delta is going to want to come to it.

Yes, but you do first have to have the trade. Getting started is important, and most people will get started on the "default" path. The default path today is an overpriced sheepskin and some pointless job in a cubicle. Now, you could go all TMLutas and say "encourage your kids to go to trade school" and that would indeed be good advice, except...

most dads are Deltas too, and they'll be uncomfortable going against the grain.

I'm not arguing against encouraging people to do these things. I'm pointing out we shouldn't be surprised and definitely not disappointed when the majority don't buck the system. We need to fix the system so it works for them.

Blogger TMLutas March 02, 2020 11:32 AM  

@133 You are right that plan A is fixing the system. My interpretation of the whole post, start to finish is talking about plan B. What is going to happen when plan A is sabotaged to failure by the swamp (DC or whatever your local version is around the world). I know better than to think that Vox went socialist.

Blogger sammibandit March 04, 2020 11:52 AM  

I'll bet on history and though socialism is a historical fad, the communalist sensibility has much longer roots than the entrepreneurial fad. That entrepreneurialism has barely made inroads even in it's native context evidences as such. Commununalism like Huguenots and not just 1871 Parisians is more French.

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