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Friday, February 21, 2020

The importance of rhetoric

No emotion, no victory:
The American media strategist Bill Knapp, who helped Obama into office in 2008, flies over to start preparing David for TV interviews. At the end of a long day, Bill takes me aside.

'I gotta be honest with you,' he says. 'You're never going to win this one unless you have an emotional argument for Remain. And you've gotta have a better answer on immigration.'

Of course, Bill has zoomed in straight away on our two core problems — problems we never resolve.

It's true our message isn't a very emotive one. No one is pretending the EU is a perfect institution. Quite the opposite. We've spent years arguing for reform. Securing our special status.

Essentially, we're stuck arguing for a marriage we've just taken to mediation. Saying: 'It's about more than just the relationship; it's about the kids — and their kids. The house, the car, the holidays, our social life. About our lifestyle.'

But still, at the core, we're having to mount an argument for what appears to be a soured relationship – and this is hard.

All the emotional energy is with the other side, the side that chants for liberty, freedom, a fresh start.
Immigration is a losing issue everywhere, except in the United States. But soon, it will be here too. Because the immigration = economic growth = societal wealth argument is now as observably and objectively false as the free trade = economic growth = societal prosperity argument.

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45 Comments:

Blogger CharityBear February 21, 2020 8:20 PM  

The rhetoric is trending in the opposite direction in America now. People are beginning to see through the lies that were produced during WW2 and 1965 Immigration Act.

Blogger RobertDWood February 21, 2020 8:47 PM  

It is strange to see the end game of the current progressive party as a burn out of failed emotional energy. So much of the progressive success has just been downright appeals to the ladies emotions in the west that I didn't think it would ever run out of gas.

Blogger Timmy3 February 21, 2020 9:03 PM  

Immigration in the era of coronavirus is a harder sell.

Blogger Pathfinderlight February 21, 2020 9:37 PM  

Immigration abuse has been slow to be recognized in America due to the willful blindness of the boomers and cucks to the greed of the neocons. They are not our culture. They will never respect us.

Blogger Rattlesnake_Kid February 21, 2020 9:54 PM  

RobertDWood wrote:It is strange to see the end game of the current progressive party as a burn out of failed emotional energy. So much of the progressive success has just been downright appeals to the ladies emotions in the west that I didn't think it would ever run out of gas.

Nothing of this world lasts forever.

Blogger Homesteader February 21, 2020 10:11 PM  

"WE THE PEOPLE of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Those words still ring true today.

Emphasis on WE, and OUR.

Blogger Warunicorn February 21, 2020 10:47 PM  

I can never get an answer from people about why we need unfettered immigration in the first place. When do we get to be self-governing? Japan doesn't have problems, nor does Israel and they can say, "No, you have to go back," and nobody bats a foxtrotting eye.

Back in 1994 to 1995, I remember a small group of Irish that worked for a hospice and tended to my sister until she died. Wonderful people. The stories they would tell me of what they had to go through to stay here despite being gainfully employed. It mystified me, knowing Mexicans flow across our southern border unfettered and are then handed everything on a silver platter.

Blogger Shield up sword swinging pipes blasting February 21, 2020 10:59 PM  

We've got (((jewels))) for sale. Any takers?

Blogger Shield up sword swinging pipes blasting February 21, 2020 11:02 PM  

I think the opposition had always been there, but now it is quickly approaching critical mass. People can't hide from it anymore. Ordered violence seems to be in order from our side.

Blogger Shield up sword swinging pipes blasting February 21, 2020 11:03 PM  

Maybe even the center left sellouts have had enough of their own stink.

Blogger NO GOOGLES February 21, 2020 11:20 PM  

A big part of why Americans struggle to realize how immigration isn't the greatest thing in the world is that so many people just move to get away from immigrants. And once they find another nice suburb or rural area - they forget why they moved. Add in all of the pro-immigration propaganda and (until pretty recently) the vehement social denunciations for anybody not speaking in glowing terms about immigration and many people just attribute their own experience to another cause.

Blogger Doktor Jeep February 21, 2020 11:56 PM  

The people pushing for more immigration are the ones suffering from it the least

Blogger Jack Amok February 22, 2020 12:36 AM  

Housing shortage? What if there were fewer people? Traffic congestion? What if there were fewer people? Wage stagnation? What if there were fewer people?

The Black Death killed a lot of serfs, but the ones who survived weren't quite serfs anymore, because they had better leverage over the Lords who needed them. When you spend a moment to wonder how we can have all the population-related problems we have with a below-replacement birth rate, you start to realize...

Blogger Akuma February 22, 2020 12:49 AM  

The highest rates of immigration can be found in th Blue Collar sector. Despite most Blue Collar workers claiming to be Pro-Trump and Politically Incorrect.

Blogger Akuma February 22, 2020 12:51 AM  

"The people pushing for more immigration are the ones suffering from it the least"

They suffer from it. Noticing is a crime and dare I say, raciss. So...

Blogger Bernard Korzeniewicz February 22, 2020 2:47 AM  

Save them for incoming Big Cold. Than they will useful.

Blogger bodenlose Schweinerei February 22, 2020 4:54 AM  

But still, at the core, we're having to mount an argument for what appears to be a soured relationship – and this is hard.

No, what you're arguing for is the utter annihilation and erasure of your own millennia-old culture and population, you simpering wankbiscuit.

Blogger Gettimothy February 22, 2020 4:56 AM  

The civ nats have had the better emotional arguments. There are tons of anchoring propaganda supporting it.

Its OK to be white was the first positive emotional frame since 'the blessings of consanguinity' that I am aware of.


"Its who we are" has a nice feel to it, the civicucks often deployed the "its not who we are" as an attempt to shame. That shaming does not work anymore.

"God made us different" appeals to me emotionally and segues nicely into religious/evolutionary dialectic.

The right phrase will capture what 'everybody' already knows but is afraid to say.

Thankfully, the margins are radicalizing and memeing to good effect.

Blogger Monotonous Languor February 22, 2020 5:37 AM  

Too much logic on display from Bill Knapp. The left have never needed logical analysis, their mental gas tank is filled with idealistic moral fantasies. It's like a perpetual motion machine, it keeps them going and going, spewing endless hate.

Blogger Duke Norfolk February 22, 2020 5:48 AM  

@13 And yet, just the other day I saw a conservatard-type trot out the old trope (which tends to live among libertarians, it seems) that we aren't threatened by over-population because all the people in the world could fit into Texas and have 1000 sq ft each.

Where do you even start? They really think that's a mic drop moment; irrefutable. It's maddening. (I've never taken the time to figure out if it's even accurate, because it just doesn't matter.)

Blogger Joel Raúl Villegas February 22, 2020 6:27 AM  

"Immigration is a losing issue everywhere, except in the United States. But soon, it will be here too."
Didn't know Italy was in danger too. Haha. Jokes aside, in Argentina we have the same problem.

Blogger VD February 22, 2020 6:39 AM  

The civ nats have had the better emotional arguments. There are tons of anchoring propaganda supporting it.

And yet people have no problem protecting animals against invasive species. The arguments are not being made.

Blogger Paulito February 22, 2020 6:48 AM  

@20 It is true - there are over 7 trillion ft2 in Texas. But the people who find their 1000 ft2 in the middle of a lake aren't going to be very happy. And just because you *can* fit everyone in a 33-foot box (illuminati confirmed), doesn't mean it would be a good idea. We're having problems with just absorbing half the population of California - we don't need the rest of the world, too.

Blogger rikjames.313 February 22, 2020 6:56 AM  

I live in a rust belt state called Michigan. Blacks in 5 of our cities, most famously Detroit have an average IQ under 90 and most have not worked in 5 generations. Yes, I know there are some Blacks who live in the suburbs and work--many of them in real jobs--but the state is carrying all these multigenerational welfare nests, along with the crime problem. That is a heavy load.

Illegals get up here for seasonal work, see the freebee parade, and move up wife, she gets pregnant with the anchor baby, soon we have a second culture of welfare rats sucking down all our medicaid and state welfare many. As a bonus, they love crime almost as much as the Blacks, so we have all those costs.

Then the schools. Schools with actual intelligent, well socialized kids as short changed as we shovel money to the Black and Hispanic schools trying to somehow magically add 20 IQ points to their uncaring brains.

The whole state is screwed. There are not enough whites working to keep this scheme going. At some point either we become Mexico/Nigeria and the whites leave, or we assist them to go home.

Blogger bodenlose Schweinerei February 22, 2020 7:02 AM  

@20 - I did the math, and it is fairly accurate (some of 'em would spill over into Oklahoma). Idiotic but accurate, very typical of the sort of "facts" tards of all stripes grab onto with all the might in their ropy little arms

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 22, 2020 7:29 AM  

Conservatives were absolutely necessary for Brexit, those clowns tailgate the Left and sabotaged the emotional appeal of globalism with the usual "smert boy" attitude. If Con Inc. was in favor of Brexit it would have lost, the usual win the booby prize of the Intellectual level with some dopey essays that about 12 people read and agree with versus losing the grand prize of winning the Moral level using sleazy half true rhetoric.

Blogger Scuzzaman February 22, 2020 7:36 AM  

Duke Norfolk,

Libertarians live a life of constant unending “if only”. If only people were like me, they say without ever saying it.

They never get to the point of recognition that, well, they’re not. They just aren’t. And (in aggregate) they never have been and they never will be. Most aren’t capable of restraining themselves and of the few who are capable most are not willing even to try.

But libertarians would rather live as perpetual Mars Attacks morons (“Can’t we all just - get along?”) than deal with this reality. They thus voluntarily consign themselves to eternal irrelevance.

But they do have nice bow ties.

Blogger Dan in Georgia February 22, 2020 8:32 AM  

IT has been flooded with Indians, Chinese and Koreans. H1Bs killed wages. Intentionally of course.

Blogger Dan in Georgia February 22, 2020 8:35 AM  

Being “born that way” works well for our side. Opposing it opens our enemies to other attacks. “So gay people can change then?” etc.

Blogger Dan in Georgia February 22, 2020 8:41 AM  

I use the “the world population could fit in Texas” trope only to argue against WORLD overpopulation. I didn’t know civ-nats were using it to justify open borders. Our (((fellow white people))) always sticking their nose where it doesn’t belong.

Blogger Dan in Georgia February 22, 2020 8:50 AM  

Trump is a master of rhetoric. The Wall was a visual idea that everyone could understand. In reality, the concept is more important.

Make the invaders leave by making it impossible to live here. IOW, they can’t drive or get jobs here. Then make it harder. Arrest people harboring them (landlords). Poof! They leave.

Blogger Balkan Yankee February 22, 2020 8:53 AM  

The USA is too damn small.

Blogger Polemicist February 22, 2020 9:28 AM  

The "nation of immigrants" rubbish is harder to sell outside America (although some still try).

Because their ancestors originally came from somewhere else, too many in the USA find the idea that immigrants are: 1) better than the people in their home country than who stayed behind; and 2) better than those who already live in the country they have moved to emotionally satisfying.

These people -whether on the right or left- find any objective consideration of the subject deeply troubling.

Blogger VFM #7634 February 22, 2020 9:51 AM  

Immigration is a losing issue everywhere, except in the United States.

Canada says, "Hold my Molson..."

Blogger VFM #7634 February 22, 2020 9:58 AM  

The "nation of immigrants" rubbish is harder to sell outside America (although some still try).

Because their ancestors originally came from somewhere else, too many in the USA find the idea that immigrants are: 1) better than the people in their home country than who stayed behind; and 2) better than those who already live in the country they have moved to emotionally satisfying.


The concept of "American ethnicity" or "American ancestry" is in fact a thing, although it is a work in progress. Unsurprisingly, Trump did best in parts of the United States with the highest concentrations of ethnic "Americans".

Blogger Ominous Cowherd February 22, 2020 11:12 AM  

rikjames.313 wrote:Blacks in 5 of our cities, most famously Detroit have an average IQ under 90 and most have not worked in 5 generations.
Average IQ under 90? Typical, average American Africans, then.
Dan in Georgia wrote:Make the invaders leave by making it impossible to live here. IOW, they can’t drive or get jobs here. Then make it harder. Arrest people harboring them (landlords). Poof! They leave.
We might have to deport 5 million or so, and that will be easily accomplished, once the will is there. If we start socially enforcing American social norms again, for every one we deport, another 19 will self deport. There's 100 million unwanted outsiders gone.
Polemicist wrote:Because their ancestors originally came from somewhere else, too many in the USA find the idea that immigrants are: 1) better than the people in their home country than who stayed behind; and 2) better than those who already live in the country they have moved to emotionally satisfying.
Americans aren't a nation of immigrants, we are a nation of conquerors. We didn't come and take welfare from the aborigines, we came and conquered them.

Blogger jarheadljh February 22, 2020 11:57 AM  

1)"nation of immigrants" only works when used against white Americans, and usually because any one individual is descended of too many different European nations to claim any one of them. We still need to reminded often that we are descended of the people Europe didn't want.

It's funny, because American blacks are just as mixed as the whites, and have even less knowledge of the old country, but you can't ever make them feel guilty about kicking out someone they don't like.

2)The whole tech sector knows what an H1B visa is and what it does. All it will take is for someone like Trump to begin attacking them without being afraid of the dreaded racist label and that person will get the support of the people who want those jobs for their native-born children.

3)The wall is popular as hell, and the overton window is still shifting. Right now they say they want a big door in the wall, and I think that's going to be cut down to a doggie-door.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd February 22, 2020 12:58 PM  

jarheadljh wrote:3)The wall is popular as hell, and the overton window is still shifting. Right now they say they want a big door in the wall, and I think that's going to be cut down to a doggie-door.
Need a one-way door, that only opens out - don't want undesirables stuck here. Let'em go mess up Messyco.

Blogger The Course of Empire February 22, 2020 1:50 PM  

Oh, immigration is still a winner in Canada, too, although there are some small signs this might be changing. Sadly, I think it may be too late; except by salvaging some smaller country (or countries) out of it, but I suspect not without much struggle.

Blogger jarheadljh February 22, 2020 2:31 PM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:jarheadljh wrote:3)The wall is popular as hell, and the overton window is still shifting. Right now they say they want a big door in the wall, and I think that's going to be cut down to a doggie-door.

Need a one-way door, that only opens out - don't want undesirables stuck here. Let'em go mess up Messyco.


I would obviously be in favor of that. But then I wasn't in favor of the wall - I wanted a shipping lane connecting the Gulf to the Pacific. Not another Panama Canal, I mean something wide enough for a row of supertankers and Nimitz class carriers to pass each other. Yes, I'm well aware that would be insanely expensive, and a seriously daunting engineering challenge, but go big or go home. It's benefits would allow the transformation of the Southwest into a collection of actual ports, and it would facilitate future desalination plants to pump water into the Heartland while greening the desert. Plus it would be under US control, unlike the Panama Canal, and would present a serious challenge for a Southern invasion from a professional military. It wouldn't have to strictly follow the border, although the Rio Grande is so low now that it's not even really worth trying to preserve it as a fresh water system, so that might be an option.

Just spit balling.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants February 22, 2020 3:55 PM  

I wanted to push everyone North of the Panama Canal and South of our border below the canal and then close that tiny little area off for good.
It would be so easy to do if America had the willpower.
Also, that bogtrotter Mick Mulvaney is out saying we gotta double the H2B VISAs.

*sigh*

Blogger Polemicist February 22, 2020 4:36 PM  

@36 "Americans aren't a nation of immigrants, we are a nation of conquerors. We didn't come and take welfare from the aborigines, we came and conquered them."

Very true. The Europeans who first settled America (and Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa) were not immigrants, but rather the creators of those countries. Getting the typical liberal or conservative to admit the distinction and affirm its significance is a hard task, though.

Blogger Homesteader February 22, 2020 7:11 PM  

"Americans aren't a nation of immigrants, we are a nation of conquerors. We didn't come and take welfare from the aborigines, we came and conquered them."

The Anglosphere, and the lesser European equivalents,were borne of blood and toil, and took fallow land from idle aborigines and transformed it into thriving civilizations.

South Africa once had a space programme, for God's sake.

To make ANY comparison between my ancestors and the JCLs who now infest the land they built, is a mockery of reason and logic.

We built this land. They did not.
It IS that simple.

Blogger Angantyr February 22, 2020 10:00 PM  

I prefer to say, "We are a nation of Pioneers, not immigrants. Pioneers build a civilization out of wilderness - immigrants come in to the civilization and sign up for benefits."

Blogger Akulkis February 22, 2020 10:22 PM  

@jarheadjlh

"But then I wasn't in favor of the wall - I wanted a shipping lane connecting the Gulf to the Pacific. Not another Panama Canal, I mean something wide enough for a row of supertankers and Nimitz class carriers to pass each other."

You and I think alike. A southern MOAT, with a more or less direct path from Corpus Christi to San Diego would improve the economy for the average Joe so much.

And frequent drilling in the moat based on seismic data for tunneling detection, to immediately FLOOD such tunnels would be absolutely awesome, too.

Anything and everything that puts and end to the drugs, weapons and people smuggling operations.

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