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Saturday, April 11, 2020

Mailvox: SSH utility

A reader finds the socio-sexual hierarchy to be of use:
Thanks for discussing the very real phenomenon of the socio-sexual hierarchy on your blog and Voxiversity. I'd seen it in the wild occasionally but was never been really aware of it until now. Now that I know, I can spot the gamma right off, especially on message boards.

I encountered one yesterday on Voat and realized I was reading a live specimen after his second preachy, nagging, know-it-all, condescending, and really bizarre wall of text. Not worth your time for me to summarize it -- hell, I wasn't even interested -- but I found it fascinating to see how he reacted like an aggrieved porcupine when I said I wasn't going to read his comments any further.

This will be a very useful tool for me.
I find it's a particularly useful tool for the corporate world or anyone who has to run an organization.

Labels: ,

92 Comments:

Blogger Doktor Jeep April 11, 2020 1:58 PM  

When I think of the past it becomes obvious that most on the job drama and BS came from gammas.
Having been in the position to hire people, one thing you can bet on is I'll never hire a gamma.

Blogger RMH in StL April 11, 2020 2:04 PM  

I wish I had been more aware before I hired one particular employee. He was like gangrene. I have never experienced such an abrupt change in a working environment. It was virtually instantaneous. And, once the rot was jettisoned, things went back to normal in a few days.
But my ignorance (blindness) was damaging. The day after the hire my longest tenured employee came to me and pleaded, "For God's sake, and for your own good, get rid of him." I should have listened right then. Giving him more time was a costly mistake. He was NEVER going to change.

Blogger Bernard Korzeniewicz April 11, 2020 2:04 PM  

I identified a Gamma in my organisation. An Alfa from a small corporation offered to solve the big and really damaging problem. An Alfa would make it from the outside of a Gamma's confort zone…
Of course a Gamma exploded.
We are about to lose 4 times a month a Alfa wanted us to pay.
as the part of tribute to SDL for creating SSH I offend this:
https://youtu.be/lOfbDDy_-OI

Blogger Out of Nod April 11, 2020 2:12 PM  

It's one of the most useful tools I've been given for dealing with people; it's a great way to determine how to respond to those who live in it. It's also been great for personal improvement.

Blogger 1LLoyd April 11, 2020 2:37 PM  

And the knowledge spreads.

Blogger Keith April 11, 2020 2:45 PM  

It's also a better set of basis functions for personality types than the simpler [sociopath/non-sociopath] breakdown. The extra dimensionality of the SSH model is useful for improving your working relationship within the non-sociopath category instead of only guarding yourself from sociopaths.

Blogger Dont Worry About Me April 11, 2020 3:05 PM  

It has been fantastic for me in restaurant management. It appears to mystify people how smooth things are when I'm in charge of shifts, because the Gammas are on lockdown every day, Deltas are protected, and we set sales records and run a great P&L

Blogger Lamarck Leland April 11, 2020 4:02 PM  

I think I was just dealing with a gamma in this yt thread (not really worth following either): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1Lek2-uQvs&lc=Ughb06L6uVwrvHgCoAEC.8IsuYPhxjwE93jWu76XE1n

It's amazing how the discussion could on forever as the person will request the TRUE meaning of every single bible verse and even when proven wrong on one point will just go back and reafirm what had been previously agreed upon followed by a massive wall of text exalting their own competence.

Dialogue is impossible with such beings of infinite sapience.

I certainly appreciate having gammas banned on the spot.

Blogger Dad29 April 11, 2020 4:06 PM  

preachy, nagging, know-it-all, condescending, and really bizarre wall of text.

DAMN!! Had one of those on my blog the other day, too. Apparently a lot of them are cooped up under their beds in fear of CHINADEATH and have the time to infest the 'net.

Blogger Crew April 11, 2020 4:20 PM  

Oh wait. Not secure shell.

Blogger Bogey April 11, 2020 4:23 PM  

MMOs and Game forums were rife with gammas back in the day. If we only knew.

Blogger Balkan Yankee April 11, 2020 4:25 PM  

TL;DR was invented for spergs and gammas alike.

Blogger Doktor Jeep April 11, 2020 4:31 PM  

Considering the damage that gammas do to organizations, how were they kept out of police, military academies, and fraternities in the past?
Look at that case out of Las Vegas a while back where a cop made a crying drunk grovel in a hallway for five minutes before Bill-drilling him in the gut with an M4 for "not following orders that police safety demanded". I have seen a picture of the cop: typical short man with tats all over his arms and a chip on his shoulder expression.
There was a time when guys like that would not have made it past academy.

The only thing I can think of is "hazing". Hazing is what must have been the thing to keep gammas out.
The clue? Look at how hazing got to be stereotyped as the thing only white college frat jocks named Brad and Chad did to foist faux exclusivity in their frats. And this comes from entertainment media created by (( the usual suspects)).
This led to sentiment to make hazing felony-level illegal. Starting around the 1990s. Now almost 30 years later we have a gammapocalypse that actually gets people killed.
The need for hazing, while never officially recognized or codified, was recognized at some point? Or maybe organizations run by men go this way out of instinct to filter out gammas?

Blogger peacefulposter April 11, 2020 4:58 PM  

Gammas are like Babelists in that they believe they are Secret Kings who know better than God.

Would it be safe to say that Gammas cannot be Christian by definition?

Blogger RedJack April 11, 2020 5:28 PM  

Had a vet that is a classic gamma at work. Half my time is spent dealing with him and documenting everything he does. Claims to have been a door kicker, but he is the whiny bitch of the plant. Boss wants to keep him, but I no longer do. So while I will follow direction, I will have a trigger file ready

Blogger Kraemer April 11, 2020 5:47 PM  

Safe-ish to think, but not safe to say. The whole point of Jesus is that everyone can be saved. Sure, this involves considerable suffering, but we are told to take up our cross and deny ourselves.

Blogger Kraemer April 11, 2020 5:50 PM  

There's two types of hazing. There's normal hazing where a group of men tries to see what a new man is made of. That's normal and healthy.
Then there's "hazing" when everyone hates your guts. Think of the scene in Full Metal Jacket with the guy who got tied down and beat.

Blogger James Dixon April 11, 2020 6:28 PM  

> Oh wait. Not secure shell.

Glad to see I wasn't the only one. :)

> Would it be safe to say that Gammas cannot be Christian by definition?

I'd say more of a case of will not than cannot. Grace is offered to all, but you have to accept it.

Blogger peacefulposter April 11, 2020 7:12 PM  

I'd say more a case of will not than cannot

Yes, I should have phrased it more precisely. If you chose to be Gamma, you are basically choosing yourself over God.

Doesn't mean you can't repent and choose again.

Blogger Kevin April 11, 2020 7:30 PM  

That's funny. Whenever I see "SSH" I also think secure shell. Then I remember the context.

Blogger VFM #7634 April 11, 2020 7:39 PM  

Gammas are like Babelists in that they believe they are Secret Kings who know better than God.

Would it be safe to say that Gammas cannot be Christian by definition?


No, they can -- even the devils believe and tremble -- but whether they can actually get to heaven is another question. My experience with Gammas in traditional Catholicism is uniformly negative. Their most common traits are control-freakishness, and getting obsessive about something and taking it to an extreme. For example, the Feeneyites, who got the idea that you can only get to Heaven if you've been baptized with water and have been accepted formally into the Church. Or if they're priests, they insist either that you go to Mass with them and only them, or that you recognize Francis as the Pope. And of course, their walls of text. One excellent example is Salza & Siscoe's "True or False Pope?" book, a ridiculous tome where they try to prove that the Vatican II popes are valid, but is actually a pure exercise of snowing the reader.

They're generally very unpleasant people. If traditional Catholics were made aware of Gammas and learned to identify them and stay away from them if possible, I think things would operate much more smoothly for us.

Blogger TechieDude April 11, 2020 7:40 PM  

"Then there's "hazing" when everyone hates your guts. Think of the scene in Full Metal Jacket with the guy who got tied down and beat." That wasn't hazing. That was a blanket party for being a fuckup. The group was punished because of Pyle.

the SSH is vital to know. I found it way to late, and was stuck with a Gamma employee. Had I known then what I know now, I'd have spared myself pain and intensified my pressure on the idiot. Took a year to even find out the process to fire someone (in our newly merged company).

Blogger VD April 11, 2020 7:41 PM  

Would it be safe to say that Gammas cannot be Christian by definition?

No. That's ridiculous.

Blogger weka April 11, 2020 7:51 PM  

"Sorry Jacinda, you are not a team player and you show poor judgement".

/Too tired to face full rant/

"You wore a Vegan T shirt when applying to work in a dairy cooperative"

Seen similar too many times. Have to use code here due to our gamma politicians.

Blogger weka April 11, 2020 7:53 PM  

Both are needed. It keeps ones weaknesses from ruining teams and trains one to be a useful Delta.

Blogger Balkan Yankee April 11, 2020 7:58 PM  

@17: During my four years in Marine Corps infantry, I was aware of one and only one "blanket party" (aka Code Red) that ever occurred in my unit. The four perpetrators restrained the sleeping gamma shitbird and roughed him up.

The gamma promptly reported his unauthorized punishment to the battalion duty officer who promptly reported it to the battalion CO who promptly court-martialed the perpetrators and sentenced each to six months in the Correctional Custody Platoon.

I won't argue with the battalion CO's execution of military justice in this case, but that gamma had no business being in Marine Corps infantry, let alone the Marine Corps.

In the civilian world, slow to hire, quick to fire is good policy.*

* Correctional Custody Platoon not included.

Blogger D. Dwight Dwden April 11, 2020 8:44 PM  

Thanks, Vox. I wanted to keep my email as short as possible to accommodate your limited time and bandwidth. The SSH has also been very useful to me understand my own place in it. I see that I land solidly in the category of Sigma. With the descriptions of that type you've given, my behavior and personality make a lot more sense in the hierarchy.

As a sometime Linux user, I also see "secure shell" every time I see SSH.

Blogger Emmett Fitz-Hume April 11, 2020 8:50 PM  

Doktor Jeep wrote:Considering the damage that gammas do to organizations, how were they kept out of police, military academies, and fraternities in the past?

Look at that case out of Las Vegas a while back where a cop made a crying drunk grovel in a hallway for five minutes before Bill-drilling him in the gut with an M4 for "not following orders that police safety demanded". I have seen a picture of the cop: typical short man with tats all over his arms and a chip on his shoulder expression.

There was a time when guys like that would not have made it past academy.

The only thing I can think of is "hazing". Hazing is what must have been the thing to keep gammas out.

The clue? Look at how hazing got to be stereotyped as the thing only white college frat jocks named Brad and Chad did to foist faux exclusivity in their frats. And this comes from entertainment media created by (( the usual suspects)).

This led to sentiment to make hazing felony-level illegal. Starting around the 1990s. Now almost 30 years later we have a gammapocalypse that actually gets people killed.

The need for hazing, while never officially recognized or codified, was recognized at some point? Or maybe organizations run by men go this way out of instinct to filter out gammas?



I've told my co-workers this for years. Hazing serves a useful purpose. Like anything, it can be abused but the pros far outweigh the cons.

When I was a rookie, my FTO and older officers hazed all of us rookies, constantly. And my FTO could engage in "wall-to-wall" counseling. And he did because I was young and dumb and deserved it. He hit me harder than I had ever been hit up to that point. And like I said, I deserved it.

Now, hazing and wall-to-wall will get you criminally charged.

I would say, somewhere ain the 90's, like you suggested, is where it really started to get the old kebosh. Complaints about it were treated more seriously and such. Harassment really became a 'thing'.

Kraemer wrote:There's two types of hazing. There's normal hazing where a group of men tries to see what a new man is made of. That's normal and healthy.

Then there's "hazing" when everyone hates your guts. Think of the scene in Full Metal Jacket with the guy who got tied down and beat.


That second kind, like in Full Metal Jacket can still be necessary. Unfortunately. There are some people who need to be bullied until they quit or give up.

Blogger John Rockwell April 11, 2020 9:28 PM  

Speaking of Corporate Leadership. What do you guys think of "Level 5 Leadership" by Jim Collins in his book from "Good to Great" where he did a study on fortune 500 companies and what made them great.

He kept expecting those with "big egos" to be responsible for the best companies.


And Alphas seem to fit that description who also had lack of succession in many cases.

But it appears that there are leaders even better than that.


Humble leaders that dont like to talk about themselves but would rather talk about the organization,its mission and other people's achievements

Yet has a relentless iron will with relentlessly high standards,who will not stop fighting and will not give up.

Who take their companies to greatness.

https://www.amazon.com/Good-Great-Some-Companies-Others-ebook/dp/B0058DRUV6

I do wonder where that person fits in the Sociosexual hierarchy.

Blogger John Rockwell April 11, 2020 9:43 PM  

There is also an interesting feature about those leaders.

Failures of the companies are all his fault. But successes are all credited to his subordinates. He takes no credit at all but is very happy with the greatness of his team.

Blogger Balkan Yankee April 11, 2020 9:48 PM  

@29: "I do wonder where that person fits in the Sociosexual hierarchy."

Hard to say. Could be Alpha. Could be Sigma. Whatever the case, it sounds like those execs are practicing some form of servant-based leadership.

Blogger weka April 11, 2020 10:04 PM  

The alternative to code Red is that the person is left behind in combat.

Blogger RC April 11, 2020 10:05 PM  

@29 - Gifted alphas are very adept at reading situations, positioning, adapting, and navigating to personal and organizational success. If he's leading a company to predictable and repeatable success, he's an alpha.

Blogger Akulkis April 11, 2020 10:06 PM  

"Claims to have been a door kicker,"

Ask him the following questions, rapidly, one after another:

When you were out kicking in doors,
Who were the guys in your vehicle?
Who were the other guys in your squad?
Who was your squad leader?
Who was your platoon sergeant?
Who was your platoon leader?
Who was your first sergeant?
Who was your company commander?

He should be able to answer all of these with little to no hesitation.

Don't ask the question as "when you were in Iraq" or "when you were Afghanistan".... but, as I wrote it above: "When you were kicking in doors..."

What you're looking for is memory of actual truth (should be instantaneous) vs synthesizing an answer from people he knew in his (postal? laundry? dock operations?)

Personally, I don't think it's possible to survive a year as an 11B or 11M kicking in doors in Iraq or Afghanistan and remain a through-and-through gamma. Those kinds of combat operations drive the gamma out of a guy, as the NCOs just don't put up with it.

Blogger Kevin April 11, 2020 10:11 PM  

grep...
Gammas Ruin Everything Profitable

Blogger map April 11, 2020 10:15 PM  

A minor observation:

The Private Pyle character in Full Metal Jacket is a conscript. Hazing would not get him to quit out of the Army because he couldn't. That's probably why that story line has a lot of resonance with audiences.

Can you actually beat the gamma out of a gamma if you can't get rid of him?

Blogger D. Dwight Dwden April 11, 2020 10:15 PM  

@28: "And my FTO could engage in "wall-to-wall" counseling. And he did because I was young and dumb and deserved it. He hit me harder than I had ever been hit up to that point. And like I said, I deserved it.

Heh. We Navy pukes called it "bulkhead counseling". Served the same purpose. Never had to administer it myself, and I never received its benefit, even though I was a young recruits needing a bit of "calibration". It was going out of style in the 80s, but there was a place for it. By the 90s, it was anathema to even speak of it.

You want tough soldiers, sailors, and marines? Make 'em tough. Otherwise, the pussies will rise in rank and attain leadership positions and ban the discipline they should have received when they were E-1s. The saddest thing I heard about the Navy was that they banned CPO initiation. This coincided with forcing women onto combatant vessels. Both correlation and cause.

Blogger James Dixon April 11, 2020 10:16 PM  

> Failures of the companies are all his fault. But successes are all credited to his subordinates.

Because that's how he sees it. His job is building and enabling the team. In his eyes if the team fails it's because he either failed to build the team properly or failed to give them the tools they needed to succeed. If the team succeeds he did his job properly, but the team did all the actual work. It's a matter of attitude.

I've known a few (very few, unfortunately) managers like that.

Blogger Doktor Jeep April 11, 2020 10:28 PM  

I suspect that real alphas like to take risks. Trump has had a lot of failures before becoming president.

Blogger Lazarus April 11, 2020 10:35 PM  

Emmett Fitz-Hume wrote:That second kind, like in Full Metal Jacket can still be necessary. Unfortunately. There are some people who need to be bullied until they quit or give up.

That movie was during conscription. That guy that was beaten was a political prisoner.

Blogger TiredPoorHungry April 11, 2020 11:52 PM  

VD Just watches your easter sermon on the DS. That will suffice for our holiday needs. I was also raised a southern baptist. We witnessed a bit of subversion one fine spring monday in Louisville KY, circa 1975. We had spent the weekend at a bus ministry seminar at a big baptist church. While in town we thought we would drop in for a surprise visit at the place that makes our sunday school books. You have seen their faces when we walked in. It was like the pictures in the sunday school book came to life. Those were some interesting sideburns. Typical gamma behavior was displayed and we were sent out immediately.

Blogger John Rockwell April 12, 2020 12:02 AM  

@VD

I do look forward to your evaluation of this kind of leader.

Blogger John Rockwell April 12, 2020 12:04 AM  

@Longtime Lurker

What's impressive about those companies studied is that they were very viable long term because of those unassuming men.

Blogger John April 12, 2020 12:11 AM  

@26 Longtime Lurker: "I won't argue with the battalion CO's execution of military justice in this case"

Are you freaking kidding?

It's not gammas who make me boil with rage. Gammas gonna gamma. It's the leaders and officials who protect them. Gammas are only dangerous when they are protected, and protecting a gamma is organizational treason. Leaders need to do their damn jobs and remove the gammas. If a gamma gets "hazed," consider that a reflection of YOUR failure to do YOUR job. Punishing YOUR deltas for doing YOUR JOB *FOR YOU* is a great way to sow demoralization, and what organization doesn't need demoralized deltas?

The most loyalty-inspiring quality in an Alpha these days is hatred of gammas. Thinly-veiled contempt for female authority is a close second. If you understand the SSH and your place in it, it is doubling inspiring.

Blogger Jack Amok April 12, 2020 12:15 AM  

Speaking of Corporate Leadership. What do you guys think of "Level 5 Leadership" by Jim Collins in his book from "Good to Great" where he did a study on fortune 500 companies and what made them great.

There are many different styles, but regardless of what the leader says about things, in a successful company you'll find the people have confidence in their leader. He might be egotistical as hell, or he might be quite humble, but the people in the org will think he's the real deal. The message of an Alpha is always "trust me, I'll make you successful."

Blogger Dont Worry About Me April 12, 2020 12:35 AM  

Incompetence, excuses, and projecting both on their superiors is obnoxious as hell.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 12, 2020 12:35 AM  

"Then there's "hazing" when everyone hates your guts."

What happens when they're not allowed to just kick you out. They find ways to convince you to find the exit yourself.

Blogger heyjames4 April 12, 2020 12:37 AM  

SSH is incredibly valuable for work. Former gamma. Recently started a new job in the trades. The hierarchy gives me a frame on how to fit in on the team, and how to relate to different types of guys both laterally and vertically.

Blogger Dont Worry About Me April 12, 2020 12:44 AM  

It sounds look like an Alpha that limits the condescension and bragging, which people get tired of if they overdo it.

Blogger Zaklog the Great April 12, 2020 12:47 AM  

@peacefulposter

Yes, I should have phrased it more precisely. If you chose to be Gamma, you are basically choosing yourself over God.

Every individual and every type is subject to his own temptations, and all of us have the choice of choosing sin over God. None of us will be sinless this side of the grave, and there is no reason a gamma’s sins are any more or less likely to damn him than yours.

Blogger weka April 12, 2020 1:15 AM  

If you are in high risk occupations you want reliable and tested around you. You don't want the new guy or the unreliable.

Hence hazing

Blogger OvergrownHobbit April 12, 2020 2:10 AM  

@13 The only thing I can think of is "hazing". Hazing is what must have been the thing to keep gammas out.

You are correct. In the US Naval Academy, hazing served the dual purpose of weeding out the snowflakes and those who enjoyed dishing it out too much.

(For those of a certain era "swimming to Baltimore" and "bowling with plebes" are exemplars)

Allowing women in the Academy destroyed this function as the socio-sexual dynamic makes hazing a pervert's dream.

And now you know one of the many reasons the for in the USN is at Captain level. If there's anything left of the officer class it would be a welcome surprise.

@29
It's the Christian Alpha, acting by the grace of the Holy Spirit. I was raised by one.

Blogger MEGAMUS Maximus April 12, 2020 4:14 AM  

Yes, but Zaklog, you fail to realize just how deep the problems of the gamma can go. These are the people who often reconcile Christianity with Babelism in ways that should make no sense beyond their own,self-deluded minds.

And to just wave away the concerns for a gammas problems with muh "but everyone has sins that make one more or less likely to damn the" does nothing to help the gamma reject himself, choose God, and reform their lives. It falsely trivializes their problems. A trivialization that can only come from a gamma.

Blogger MEGAMUS Maximus April 12, 2020 4:17 AM  

Moreover, Zaklog, to try and trivialize someone's problems is to make problem identification harder. Don't ever trivialize or relativise.

Blogger VD April 12, 2020 5:44 AM  

I see that I land solidly in the category of Sigma.

Oh, Sweet Saint Dunning-Kruger....

Blogger GAHCindy April 12, 2020 7:55 AM  

"Yes, but Zaklog, you fail to realize just how deep the problems of the gamma can go."

No, man. You have failed to realize how deep the love of Jesus is.

Blogger crescent wrench April 12, 2020 7:59 AM  

At least in the tech world gammas stand out like sore thumbs.

Sigmas who have decided the current firm's survival and goals are not in their interest can be thornier, as they have zero compunction in calculated and destructive parasitism of the existing org if it helps them advance their career. The tells for it are much harder to notice.

Blogger BillHinDaytona April 12, 2020 8:13 AM  

A lifelong maladaptive daydreamer, I've had plenty of secret kingdoms. Some might have made imaginative worlds for a novel, but I struggled to get by day-to-day because I spent so much time daydreaming in my secret kingdom.

Eventually, I connected a few dots.

One, utter self-loathing.

Two, hurt pride.

Three, flee the pain into a fantasy world.

Four, fall behind peers in social relations ... reduced focus and retarded life skills to cope with the actual real world.

Five, utter self-loathing. (Repeat)

Vox once told me in an email many years ago to get focus off self. Really works.

What saved me is Christ. Trust in Christ allows me to receive His grace and He forgives me and leads me in a new direction.

Through Christ and the power of His Holy Spirit, I recognized the pride behind all of this and have recovered from alcohol (31 years) and porn / lust addiction (2 years), am recovering from flights of rage, and am making real progress on the maladaptive daydreaming.


Happy Easter.

Blogger BillHinDaytona April 12, 2020 8:15 AM  

Two more thoughts:

The biggest utility of the SSH and gamma posts is simply recognizing it and calling myself out when I am doing it. (With my level of shame, I literally stop mid-sentence ...)

I also recognize it in others and truth be told, simply ignore them when I see it.

Blogger K. April 12, 2020 8:39 AM  

One area I find it hard to utilize the SSH for is entertainment. I'm a lifelong movie buff, so I've watched tons of interviews with big film directors and the majority of them seem to be gammas.

At the same time, they're at the head of these massive multi-million dollar productions, in charge of hundreds or even thousands of people. Does this elevate them to Deltas? Especially when you add the increased sexual opportunities that come with Hollywood fame?

Can anyone think of an alpha filmmaker besides Clint Eastwood? Peter Berg maybe?

Blogger VD April 12, 2020 8:52 AM  

At the same time, they're at the head of these massive multi-million dollar productions, in charge of hundreds or even thousands of people. Does this elevate them to Deltas?

No. Look at how they STILL behave with women.

Blogger RMH in StL April 12, 2020 9:12 AM  

This maybe comparing apples to bananas, but past studies in self esteem suggest a racial component at work. It seems the demographic that scored among the highest in positive self image was young black males, a group with one of the lowest levels of measurable success overall - high dropout rates, lower income levels, superficial relationships, crime and incarceration rates, so on.
Sounds very similar to the warped self awareness of gammas. I wonder if there is a connection.

Blogger rumpole5 April 12, 2020 9:27 AM  

Query (for any psyc expert readers): Does the "Gamma" label, as described by VD, correspond to any of the recognized Diagnostic and Statistical Manual conditions? (and no, that is not an implied denigration of the "gamma" label) If so what is the best match?
My guess would be the catch all "borderline personality disorder" but I'm not sure.

Blogger Silent Draco April 12, 2020 9:57 AM  

crescent wrench, Sigmas who see the company's goals shift from their preferences and see its survival in question may use a ternary solution:

Leave quietly for a competitor or go on his own, leave a gaping hole;
Figuratively face-punch the Gammas to drive them out, then quietly remind the Alpha of his job, IF the firm can be saved;
Salvage what they can (tech and good people), burn it down and plow the ashes with salt.

You'll discover which solution or set happens in real time. Depends on the Sigmas' internal goals and outlook, and if working under very loose guidance at this firm is better than creating/finding a replacement situation.

Blogger Zaklog the Great April 12, 2020 10:05 AM  

@53 Yes, but Zaklog, you fail to realize just how deep the problems of the gamma can go.

Is fornication sinful? Are alphas not more likely than other types to engage in promiscuity? I guess that means alphas can't be Christians, can't be saved.

(No, I don't really believe this. I'm just illustrating the kind of thinking that you appear to be applying to the situation.)

Blogger Samuel Adams April 12, 2020 10:19 AM  

@Vox: "Oh, Sweet Saint Dunning-Kruger...."

No idea what you mean. Is stating your place in the SSH like trying to give yourself a nickname, that only other people do it for you?

Blogger Emmett Fitz-Hume April 12, 2020 10:46 AM  

Lazarus wrote:Emmett Fitz-Hume wrote:That second kind, like in Full Metal Jacket can still be necessary. Unfortunately. There are some people who need to be bullied until they quit or give up.

That movie was during conscription. That guy that was beaten was a political prisoner.


Were they all conscripts? I don't even remember at this point. Not one of my favorite movies.

Blogger VFM #7634 April 12, 2020 10:50 AM  

Sigmas who have decided the current firm's survival and goals are not in their interest can be thornier, as they have zero compunction in calculated and destructive parasitism of the existing org if it helps them advance their career. The tells for it are much harder to notice.

That's definitely more of a Gamma thing, so it shouldn't be all that common.

Now if the organization was in decline, maybe, but that would indicate it's being run by women and Gammas, and they tend to avoid hiring Sigmas in the first place. The Sigma would have to be a longtime employee hired back when it was still run by real men, and unable to simply quit for whatever reason.

Blogger VFM #7634 April 12, 2020 11:00 AM  

There's two types of hazing. There's normal hazing where a group of men tries to see what a new man is made of. That's normal and healthy.
Then there's "hazing" when everyone hates your guts. Think of the scene in Full Metal Jacket with the guy who got tied down and beat.


It exactly parallels how women behave toward men they're interested in... versus toward men they're definitely NOT interested in.

Blogger Dont Worry About Me April 12, 2020 11:11 AM  

The USA late stage is what happens when Gammas rule an empire

Blogger SirHamster April 12, 2020 11:38 AM  

MEGAMUS Maximus wrote:Yes, but Zaklog, you fail to realize just how deep the problems of the gamma can go. These are the people who often reconcile Christianity with Babelism in ways that should make no sense beyond their own,self-deluded minds.
Christian is not exclusive from Gamma.

One is a follower of Christ. The other is a personality and a social-sexual rank. It is a category error to think they are exclusive.

A Gamma who acknowledges Jesus is Lord is a Christian. He may be a poor Christian who needs to apply Jesus's lordship to all areas of his life, but he is still a Christian. And if he develops the discipline of controlling his tongue, he can become wise.

It's not as if other ranks are innately less sinful. Who has to work harder to avoid fornication - the Alpha with dozens if not hundreds of women throwing themselves at him, or the Gamma who inspires a collective feminine shudder?

Also note that far fewer listen to the Gamma's babbling than pay attention to the Alpha's behavior. Many a church has suffered when their Alpha/Bravo leaders fall to temptations of greed or lust.

And to just wave away the concerns for a gammas problems with muh "but everyone has sins that make one more or less likely to damn the" does nothing to help the gamma reject himself, choose God, and reform their lives. It falsely trivializes their problems. A trivialization that can only come from a gamma.
Concern never saved anyone. This isn't trivialization.

The concerns of those who misunderstand the SSH and misapply it to Christian salvation are incorrect and unimportant.

Telling Gammas they are unsaved is a fundamentally wrong approach, because salvation is God's judgement call, not ours. It is arrogant to assume God's role as judge.

Telling Gammas that their behavior is un-Christian and that they need to repent is valid, but requires removing the log from your own eye, so that you may see clearly and speak truthfully.

Understand the difference between a poor Christian and a fake Christian. There can be Gammas who are fake Christians, but most likely they are a Christian brother that you must love, warts and all.

Blogger Maximoushka April 12, 2020 12:01 PM  

John Milius.

Blogger wgmeisheid April 12, 2020 12:19 PM  

peacefulposter wrote:Gammas are like Babelists in that they believe they are Secret Kings who know better than God.

Would it be safe to say that Gammas cannot be Christian by definition?


They may be recent converts who have just begun their journey to redemption and wholeness. As Christians, however, they cannot remain unwoke Gammas but have to be on the road of repentance and be actively dealing with their human failure.

Blogger Uncle John's Band April 12, 2020 12:52 PM  

It's extremely useful for dealing professionally with people outside your organization. Once you perceive their rank, you can calibrate interaction for maximum efficiency.

Blogger Akulkis April 12, 2020 2:38 PM  

"My guess would be the catch all "borderline personality disorder" but I'm not sure."

BPD is *not* a catch-all. It's a very specific combination of traits. BPD's tend to be very promiscuous, and uncannily seductive to nearly whoever they target (for sex or whatever else the BPD wants to used them for).

Gamma is much closer to run of the mill Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Blogger Balkan Yankee April 12, 2020 2:48 PM  

@66: It's about the Dunning-Kruger Effect and the bold, unself-aware display of overconfidence. Just because a man may identify himself as sigma does not necessarily make him one.

Blogger Damelon Brinn April 12, 2020 3:34 PM  

BPD is *not* a catch-all.

I think they replaced BPD and a few others with the "Cluster B" catch-all because BPD nailed a specific type *too* well. If you've had to deal with one, you recognize the traits immediately. And it leans heavily female, which was problematic.

Blogger Jack Amok April 12, 2020 4:27 PM  

Does the "Gamma" label, as described by VD, correspond to any of the recognized Diagnostic and Statistical Manual conditions?

Akulkis is most likely right about Narcissistic Personality Disorder being the closest Gamma diagnosis. A way to think of Gammas is as "female thinking men." They're not gay, but their brains are wired more like a woman's, so they have a lot of solipsistic behavior and jealousy. And while they do not have the innate sense of manipulating people that women are born with, they try to do it anyway. The good news is their manipulation attempts are usually so bad nobody else even notices, so nothing happens. "What's Gary whining about now?"

Blogger judgeholdem1848 April 12, 2020 4:36 PM  

Akulkis wrote:Gamma is much closer to run of the mill Narcissistic Personality Disorder.



There are apparently subtypes of narcissism, but the distinctions are not DSM recognized. Vulnerable narcissism closely tracks gamma traits.

I would bet the SSH model has more objective predictive value than many DSM-recognized conditions. The "personality disorders", however valid as personality models, are simply named examples of the infinite permutations of human traits that define each individual.

The DSM is merely descriptive, putting labels on clusters of traits that don't gel nicely with modernity. It's approach is fundamentally empirical. By contrast, the SSH provides a theory of natural realities that predate the DSM V by eons.

Blogger Jack Amok April 12, 2020 4:36 PM  

Is stating your place in the SSH like trying to give yourself a nickname

Gammas think they're Alphas. Until they learn about Sigma. Then they think they're Sigmas. But it is a little like giving yourself a nickname - that's a good analogy. Your place in the SSH isn't based on what you think of yourself, it's based on how other people react to you.

Blogger VD April 12, 2020 4:55 PM  

No idea what you mean. Is stating your place in the SSH like trying to give yourself a nickname, that only other people do it for you?

First, most people are not honest enough with themselves to do so. A Gamma, by definition, is not honest with himself. Second, fractal. Third, how many people grasp their own behavioral patterns?

Just because a man may identify himself as sigma does not necessarily make him one.

Particularly when he does so publicly, among strangers, when no one is asking.

Blogger SoCalMike April 12, 2020 6:49 PM  

Hey VD - sorry for being late to the discussion, but I want to share something.

I just finished reading a Clive Cussler book, Sea of Greed. The hero, Kurt Austin, is a total Alpha, and I would never have realized that without your website(s). (Cussler's other recurring hero, Dirk Pitt, is also a total Alpha)

I can't read fiction anymore without trying to figure out the SSH in the book. I love that, because it really gives me a good read on the characters, and sometimes I can predict what's going to happen because of it (and sometimes I'm right!). Very cool. Thanks, VD

Blogger VFM #7634 April 12, 2020 7:08 PM  

Is stating your place in the SSH like trying to give yourself a nickname

Sort of. One of the oldest unspoken rules of law is that no one is competent to judge his own case. But since most men are Deltas and Gammas, you're bound to more likely be correct if you think you're a Delta or a Gamma.

I suppose he could call himself a Sigma if he has attractive young women constantly getting crushes on him and he capitalizes on it. But the number of Gammas who think that's the case with themselves is far larger than the number of Sigmas who are telling the truth. Gammas are like those libtards who somehow see reality as completely different from how it actually is.

Blogger VFM #7634 April 12, 2020 7:20 PM  

"My guess would be the catch all "borderline personality disorder" but I'm not sure."

BPD is *not* a catch-all. It's a very specific combination of traits. BPD's tend to be very promiscuous, and uncannily seductive to nearly whoever they target (for sex or whatever else the BPD wants to used them for).


I wonder how each SSH rank reacts to BPD types, and which ranks BPD types tend to target (or avoid).

Blogger D. Dwight Dwden April 12, 2020 7:44 PM  

@81: Fair enough. Seriously, thanks for the feedback. It's hard to see oneself objectively. Oh wad some Power the giftie gie us.

Blogger Paul M April 12, 2020 10:07 PM  

D. Dwight Dwden wrote: I see that I land solidly in the category of Sigma. With the descriptions of that type you've given, my behavior and personality make a lot more sense in the hierarchy.

Laughing Out Loud. Thank you, Dwight, for apprising us all of this extremely important fact.

Blogger D. Dwight Dwden April 13, 2020 10:37 AM  

@81: "Particularly when he does so publicly, among strangers, when no one is asking."

Point well taken, Vox. I apologize for my breech of etiquette. It's not about me.

@83: Thanks for explaining it to me. Makes total sense.

@86: You're absolutely correct, what I wrote was ridiculous and and utter nonsense. I say with all humility that while it's been painful and embarrassing to have my self-delusions exposed publicly, it was necessary and helpful to make me realize them.

Blogger Akulkis April 13, 2020 10:40 AM  

|I think they replaced BPD and a few others with the "Cluster B" catch-all because BPD nailed a specific type *too* well. If you've had to deal with one, you recognize the traits immediately. And it leans heavily female, which was problematic."

Cluster B consists of:

Narcisstic Personality Disorder. Egotistical. Generally more harmful to themselves than others.

Histrionic Personality Disorder. Tends to be more female than male.

Borderline Personality Disorder -- There's just as many males as females. Druggies, alcoholics are almost all BPD. So too are the guys who are popular with everybody at work, EXCEPT the people who they backstabbed on their way to the top. You might call those guys "functional BPDs." Includes your best actors, as people with unstable personal identity have zero problem "becoming" someone else, especially with the incentives of money and public adulation.

Blogger papabear April 13, 2020 5:39 PM  

Woody Allen: gamma?

Blogger SciVo April 14, 2020 4:45 AM  

@K.: Can anyone think of an alpha filmmaker besides Clint Eastwood?

Four Alphas Enter A Bar...

Blogger SciVo April 14, 2020 5:03 AM  

@ VFM #7634:

I wonder how each SSH rank reacts to BPD types, and which ranks BPD types tend to target (or avoid).

When I went from omega to gamma, I attracted BPD chicks like flies to s@#$, but only as users. Not for sex.

In fact, it was my "broken picker" (as I thought of it at the time) that drove me back into omega, because lonely was better than mind-f@#$ed.

But delta is even better, because I'm blessedly ignored and/or repulsed by BPDs, while also having good easy interactions with others.

Blogger K. April 14, 2020 10:01 AM  

@89

For sure but in his more recent work, he's developed a knack for writing fully fledged characters that don't necessarily reflect his own neuroses. I think MATCH POINT is a masterpiece and it's still kind of shocking that it's a Woody Allen movie.

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