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Friday, May 08, 2020

Impossible? Part V

V. Conclusion

What kind of factor or event could trigger off such a revolt? In The Handmaid’s Tale it is a shortage of fertile women, brought about by a host of environmental problems that render most of them barren. In reality, it is perhaps more likely to be provoked precisely by something many feminists have been waiting for: namely, the development of artificial wombs. Such devices will save the lives of babies, which is the declared objective of many research groups working on the problem even now. They will also free women from the need to conceive and bear and deliver children; thus enabling them to develop their careers the way men have always done. So far, so good. But there is also another possibility. Namely that, if women cease doing any of these things, men will no longer need them nearly as much as they used to. And that, as a result, their treatment of them, far from improving, will become worse than even feminists claim it has ever been.

A nightmare? For most of us Westerners, I myself emphatically included, who value the right of both men and women to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, very much so. But for the growing number of men who are being targeted, as well as their wives and mothers and daughters and sisters who partake of the injustices inflicted on them? Less and less. Unlikely? Considering the way history seems to work, not necessarily. Action, reaction; movement, countermovement. As inevitable, as inexorable, as the tides of the sea.

Impossible? Once upon a time there was a man called Domitian, the son of Vespasian. From 81 to 96 CE he was the absolute ruler of Rome and, as such, perhaps the most powerful man in the world. Always something of a paranoid, his spies were everywhere and the number of his victims, countless. On one occasion, asked about his motives, he said that no one believes there could be a conspiracy to kill the emperor until he is killed. Not long thereafter, he was.

I. Introduction
II. The Road to Herland
III. Into the Breach
IV. Brave New World
V. Conclusion

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73 Comments:

Blogger The Observer May 08, 2020 6:00 AM  

But there is also another possibility. Namely that, if women cease doing any of these things, men will no longer need them nearly as much as they used to.

Not merely a possibility, but a certainty. There is already hue and cry over surrogates and sexbots. This is why they go all the way back to decrying masturbation -- not out of any virtue, but the concern of being replaced. Having stripped themselves of all feminine virtue, the harpies have only what lies between their legs as a bargaining chip -- and even with something as simple as age and fading beauty, are left with the stark reality of being valueless.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 08, 2020 6:08 AM  

"But there is also another possibility. Namely that, if women cease doing any of these things, men will no longer need them nearly as much as they used to. And that, as a result, their treatment of them, far from improving, will become worse than even feminists claim it has ever been."

There we go.

Personally I think artificial wombs would be an even greater travesty. However it is as it always has been, that the greatest completion and ultimate form of perverse desires is the erasure of their bearers from existence.

Feminists make the mistake that women would be totally free without the burden of bearing children, when in reality without the need of women to bear children and take care of the home, they would be irrelevant and then un-desired and un-created. This is why they agitate and rage so much about sexbots, because home-making sexbots plus complete A to Z artificial wombs would mean no more women.

All an abominable end, and I would hope and pray that they can see their end coming and turn away, and return to where they are desired.

All just another lesson of the form, "Man is not God, and in separating from God in order to exalt himself is no longer found." Similarly, if strong AI with capable bodies are eventually practicable, far from freeing men from labor, they would be the eradication and replacement of the human race.

Blogger Zwiebel May 08, 2020 6:21 AM  

I'm baffled. How would artificial wombs free women of childcare? You can work reasonably well during pregnancy, it is once the baby is there that a carer for them is needed. And breasts. Lots of breast.

Blogger Critias May 08, 2020 6:29 AM  

@2"they would be irrelevant and then un-desired and un-created."

The author could have gone slightly further with sex-selection, who would want to bring a woman into the world if they are the lesser of the two sexes? There won't be a world of no women but there will be one with very few.

Blogger Scuzzaman May 08, 2020 6:34 AM  

He’s a clever man , but he wants all the blessings of liberty without imposing any of the obligations of responsibility.

Even as he clearly describes the horrific consequences he still thinks he can have it both ways.

Like using CE instead of AD, a symptom of compromise with the secularist culture, because academics all crave intellectual respectability.

But from the world, not from the creator.

Blogger Doktor Jeep May 08, 2020 7:14 AM  

Who would have suspected that the film "Cherry 2000" was prophecy.

Blogger CostelloM May 08, 2020 7:23 AM  

The reason young men strive for success has always been to obtain women and their favor. If that can be completely replaced by technology, then most men in very short order will cease to strive. You can see this happening today with pornography replacing women in the minds of many young men. Replacing the female function completely however - with sex robots and artificial wombs - is a level of societal destruction several orders of magnitude higher. Such a technological feat has in it, the roots of its own destruction much like feminism. Whatever Juntas emerge out of that will not so much resemble an ordered society of rigid rules, but more likely a Road Warrior style type of existence for many generations.

Blogger Avalanche May 08, 2020 7:33 AM  

@4 "There won't be a world of no women but there will be one with very few."

Ah. China. You meant China, and maybe India? Girl-baby holocausts... Howzat workin' out for them?

Blogger HanoHano May 08, 2020 7:49 AM  

This brings to mind CS Lewis's That Hideous Strength.

“Who is called Sulva? What road does she walk? Why is the womb barren on one side? Where are the cold marriages?”
Ransom replied, “Sulva is she whom mortals call the Moon. She walks in the lowest sphere. The rim of the world that was wasted goes through her. Half of her orb is turned toward us and shares our curse. Her other half looks to Deep Heaven; happy would be he who could cross that frontier and see the fields on her further side. On this side, the womb is barren and the marriages cold. There dwell an accursed people, full of pride and lust. There when a young man takes a maiden in marriage, they do not lie together, but each lies with a cunningly fashioned image of the other, made to move and to be warm by devilish arts, for real flesh will not please them, they are so dainty (delicati) in their dreams of lust. Their real children they fabricate by vile arts in a secret place.”

Blogger Mr.MantraMan May 08, 2020 7:54 AM  

In simple terms I thought the man just came up with another right wing Underwear Gnomes plot. Feminism is doing an ok job of discrediting and disqualifying itself out of legitimacy, even with the conservatives eagerly playing the stooge in feminism's theatrical bits.

Feminism needs a good bite in the ample butt from a pack of Rabid Puppies.

Blogger Zastavnik Džemo May 08, 2020 8:17 AM  

With artificial wombs the most likely scenario is sodomites and lesbians start reproducing as separate nations from heterosexual people (they already started this process with surrogate mothers).

Once they hit a critical mass a war breaks out between the 3 factions.
Lesbians get exterminated first ofc.

Two alternative paths after that:

1. Hetero man prevails and all forms of sexual deviation get exterminated from the human genome pool. This is not an impossible task any more because of new tracking and genetic tech.
Women get genetically reduced IQs from pre-birth modification and get "programmed" into being good housewives. A millennia of high civilization ensues.

2. Homo man prevails and creates gay clone armies to conquer the universe. In this scenario because of reduced genetic variance it has a potential to kill the whole human race. Clone strains will make wars with one another for dominance until one super-warrior strain remains.
Than that strain will become a permanent sodomite upper class and a few loser strains that remain will be kept as bottoms.
Then they all die from sodomite-covid-3030 genetic weapon because of lack of genetic variance.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 08, 2020 8:43 AM  

"There won't be a world of no women but there will be one with very few."

If that world came to pass the only existing ones would be treated exactly like pets or zoo animals.

Blogger ZhukovG May 08, 2020 9:28 AM  

@Scuzzaman: Saying 'He's a clever man' is like saying the eruption of Krakatoa(1883) was a bit of a blow.

Blogger AaMcavoy May 08, 2020 9:36 AM  

Artificial wombs are less likely than societal collapse and barbarian invasion by patriarchal "third worlders". Hopefully we'll just have societal collapse and the rise of a patriarchal American group.

Blogger Dont Worry About Me May 08, 2020 9:39 AM  

Yep, the eugenic backlash against dysgenic trends is inevitable. Of course, actual Christian women who follow men who would die following Christ will have nothing to fear

Blogger SciVo May 08, 2020 9:45 AM  

@ Doktor Jeep:

I think that True Romance was basically Quentin Tarantino's way of imagining a world in which Cherry 2000 would not come true, because at least whores know how to treat men right. But that's just another unrealistic Hollywood fantasy, like a Pretty Woman for men.

Blogger steb May 08, 2020 9:54 AM  

AI and robotics may come to replace wives and mothers in time, but I doubt it will ever replace daughters. And natural birth could well be seen as an achievement, a little like climbing Everest without oxygen. It would be a shorthand way of demonstrating your genetic superiority.

Blogger Fargoth May 08, 2020 9:56 AM  

Welcome to the future, gentlemen

Blogger Maniac May 08, 2020 10:02 AM  

"Who would have suspected that the film "Cherry 2000" was prophecy."

I recall watching one of those shows where they count down the number-that-ends-in-zero scariest moments in horror films. One of the movies they highlighted was the original "Stepford Wives." A woman who was discussing it admitted that one of the reasons the movie was scary was because it made women like her consider what it would be like to be replaced and rendered obsolete.

Yeah.


Blogger NewTunesForOldLogos May 08, 2020 10:17 AM  

Artificial womb, daycare at minimum wage and soy-based formula imported from China.

Blogger VD May 08, 2020 10:19 AM  

Howzat workin' out for them?

They're on the verge of ascending to global dominance.

Spare us the wishful female thinking about the loneliness of wealthy old men who are forced to live with models one-third their age.

The response to Western feminism is going to be a) savage and b) a very different society than the one that preceded it.

Blogger Sam May 08, 2020 10:28 AM  

Any society that can produce artifical wombs that are good enough to replace women is a society that can keep women in place and so do not need artifical wombs. Basically it is a distraction; our society will fall either go through a leftist death spiral (Cambodia but more openly satanic) or decline and be overrun by savages. It will survive if an autocrat takes power and has leftists shot.

Blogger Matt Robison May 08, 2020 10:34 AM  

"And that, as a result, their treatment of them, far from improving, will become worse than even feminists claim it has ever been." This is an important point.

The same thing will continue to happen as homosexuality is elevated more and more, resulting in a similar attitude...what need do men really have for women?

This is where the Biblical sexual ethic shines, as the simple expectation of a man directing all of his sexual energy toward one woman did more to elevate the status of women in a culture than anything else.

Blogger Balam May 08, 2020 10:34 AM  

''With artificial wombs the most likely scenario is sodomites and lesbians start reproducing as separate nations from heterosexual people''

I understand where you are coming from logistically but I do not believe that gays and lesbos can sustain the society that could power artificial wombs. Gays maybe, but spiritually I feel like they get more satisfaction in the preying and stealing of childcen

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelphia May 08, 2020 10:43 AM  

Well, it was all a nice read, and Van Creveld's prose is sonorous indeed, but his vision is a fantasy. It will never happen.

Here's what is going to happen.

Over time, more and more female androids will be available, and they will become more and lifelike, and at the same time cheaper and cheaper, following Moore's law as all technology does. And they will never complain, and never grow old. Ongoing software updates will improve their companionship capabilities.

In young adulthood/bachelorhood, every male will have one, or more. And they will be allowed to have one, even encouraged, so young men will not be the "sexual predator" women falsely fear. Moreover, the young man who would otherwise be a hopeless incel, and potentially a mass shooter, will be pacified.

And as time goes on, real women will no longer be the gateways to sex, which is the real source of their power.

Now, some entrepreneurs will also create male sex androids, but they will be much less popular, because for women, true arousal depends on a certain kind of improvisational maleness. They will just think of those male androids as dildos with a voice.

At that point, the women will be desperate, and look around, and see that only the most beautiful of real women get the real men. The Alpha Male will have a target rich environment. He may or may not decide to have children, which he will be able to control via 100% effective male birth control, or he will store his sperm away for future use.

As such, abortions will become rare, if not fade away entirely, because males will control reproduction.

The choice will be his.

But the alpha male too will have a closet full of sex androids, which he can turn to in those times when work and success are more important than the energy draining pursuit of a real woman.

At this point, civilization will be at a crossroads. If men decide to band together, to build a civilizational vision, without women in positions of power in their male enterprises, there will be hope for humanity. But if men decide that the sensual and satisfying pursuits are more attractive, then the end will come.



Blogger McChuck May 08, 2020 10:44 AM  

"Who would have suspected that the film "Cherry 2000" was prophecy."

I still prefer "Hell Comes to Frogtown".

Blogger ADS May 08, 2020 10:52 AM  

I am under the impression that China's 1 child policy and associated gender specific infanticide has created an ageing population with a significant shortage of childbearing women. I do know that many areas of manufacturing are trending away from China and towards lower cost SEA nations as Chinese costs rise. The entire Chinese economy depends on selling cheap crap to the USA and we're quickly losing the ability to buy it. China is also a net importer of food. That seems to me a picture of a country poised at the brink of disaster, not global dominance.
I'm way outside my lane on this though and will gladly be educated.

Blogger VFM Bear May 08, 2020 10:54 AM  

"But there is also another possibility. Namely that, if women cease doing any of these things, men will no longer need them nearly as much as they used to. And that, as a result, their treatment of them, far from improving, will become worse than even feminists claim it has ever been."

How does that old saw go again?

Women, if we couldn't fuck them, we'd hunt them.

Blogger VD May 08, 2020 11:30 AM  

In young adulthood/bachelorhood, every male will have one, or more. And they will be allowed to have one, even encouraged, so young men will not be the "sexual predator" women falsely fear.

You went off the rails here. Women are already agitating for the banning of sexbots.

Blogger braq May 08, 2020 11:47 AM  

This line of thinking reminds me of Bruce Sterling's Schismatrix works. If Van Creveld hasn't read that he might find it edifying.

Absolutists like myself tend to believe things will work out this way or that. But Sterling's book made me realize that things can (and do) work out in all manner of unexpected and weird ways. We may have all-male enclaves perpetuated by artificial wombs and sexbots, AND we may have homo-hordes genetically engineering super-trooper gay cyborgs, AND we may have traditionalist/religious powers with harems of barefoot-and-pregnant cis-bio-women.

If things evolve along the lines Sterling imagined, there will probably be a fair number of furries and other animal-human chimeras too. China lacks Western sensibilities when it comes to genetic engineering, and the secret horrors they have already produced are presumably a pale precursor of what's to come.

Blogger Scuzzaman May 08, 2020 11:49 AM  

@Zhukov

Fair point.

I don’t hold with all the techno-utopian stuff so I’m not expecting us to master life itself to the degree he expects. But I do expect that all facets of human relations - male/female, black/white, global/national, etc - will continue to deteriorate until a crisis does occur that brings the survivors back to a more fundamental respect for reality. It’s part of what we are as a species: first we feel the pain, then if we survive we learn the lesson.

True of nations and civilisations as it is of individuals. No guarantees ours will survive the next crisis. Some mistakes are only recorded as a lesson for the neighbours.

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelphia May 08, 2020 12:28 PM  

VD wrote:In young adulthood/bachelorhood, every male will have one, or more. And they will be allowed to have one, even encouraged, so young men will not be the "sexual predator" women falsely fear.

You went off the rails here. Women are already agitating for the banning of sexbots.


Anybody hear the word "prohibition?" Anybody?

Oh, sure, there will be an updated version of the Women's Christian Temperance Union in this regard, a sure as night follows day. But the end result will be the same.

They may agitate, and they are of course quite good at agitating.

But the lawsuits will fly, and the entrepreneurs will push hard, because there's gold in them thar' androids. You can imagine the oral arguments at the Supreme Court -- "Your honor, if you ban sexual robots, then in fairness you will have to ban female pleasure devices too."

By the way, the great Sydney Powell notwithstanding, male lawyers are better.

Meanwhile, feminism may be powerful, but commerce is no slouch.

The process will be slow. The first ones have already been allowed, because they don't pose a threat, even though anyone with half a brain can see where the technology is heading. They will get better, at first slowly, then faster, and then inevitably they will be remarkable.

And the move from "Geez, how can you stick it in that smelly rubber.." to "Oh, my God, it's like some porn star!" will happen at light speed.

The gates will have parted, and the androids will have entered. Pandora's box will be open, the genie will be out of the bottle -- pick your favorite metaphor.

The bots will be made, they will be sold, they will be used.

Look for the Underwriter's Laboratory label and the FCC clearance sticker.

The aftermarket for various accessories will be huge.

And yes, I am NOT joking.

Blogger Ingot9455 May 08, 2020 12:28 PM  

@27 China has lots of challenges, yes. But so do we and so does everyone. There's a long way to go before collapse for anyone.

Blogger Noah B. May 08, 2020 12:29 PM  

The invention of viable artificial wombs would be the mother of all supply shocks. I was starting to think van Creveld was going off into the weeds in Part IV but he ties everything together nicely here.

Blogger ZhukovG May 08, 2020 12:30 PM  

@Scuzzaman: I agree and I think that's really the point he's trying to make. That eventually women will return to traditional roles or be rendered redundant by Man's ingenuity. I suspect the former will be true.

Feminists are beginning to realize that, contrary to the propaganda they've long imbibed, women need men more than men need women. This horrifies them and so they lash out.

Blogger RandyB May 08, 2020 1:14 PM  

Van Creveld is also making the case that, contrary to feminist propaganda, feminism is not the bulwark against THT. Feminism is the primary driving force toward THT, or whatever similar outcome is most plausible.

Blogger basementhomebrewer May 08, 2020 1:16 PM  

Feminists are beginning to realize that, contrary to the propaganda they've long imbibed, women need men more than men need women. This horrifies them and so they lash out.

Which is another way to beat them not discussed. Give them precisely what they ask for, full equality in everything. Pump up the "you don't need no man!" propaganda to 11 and then truly equalize things. Once they have to fend for themselves, get drafted, get pushed into self sacrificing "for God and Country" situations they will start agitating for traditional roles once again.

Blogger [Redacted] May 08, 2020 1:19 PM  

I don't know if children born of mechanical wombs will be capable of a sufficiently complex civilization that can create and maintain artificial wombs. Children born to single parents are broken because they lack necessary examples of social interactions between genders, generations, and personality types during critical years. This dysfunction would be implied, not only by default, but also because a machine womb doesn't need parents beyond donated generic material. The mechanical womb, if it is publicaly adopted, could be a Gamma printer, and all the infrastructure needed to compensate for that is more cheaply and effectively achieved with a proper family. In the long-term, there are too many pitfalls.

Blogger HanoHano May 08, 2020 1:37 PM  

I think it boiles down to rejection of the created order. Women grew dissatisfied with their created roll and embraced the spirit of Lilth. They rejected both man and God and demanded " freedom. Men, did as they have done since Adam, and instead of exercising their God given authority sought to please women.

This is the inevitable result of that. Men will not be happy long term with sexbots. And I wholeheartedly believe that when they speak of artificial wombs they are messing with things beyond their ability to understand and the consequences can only be catastrophic.

But in the end the natural order will reset. And that reset is sure to be brutal and shocking.

P.S. The idea of having sex with a robot repulses me. I can't understand why so many guys think that will be such an awesome thing.

Blogger John Bosch May 08, 2020 1:37 PM  

We're already at a point where society's mothers can be removed from childcare, if they haven't already done so voluntarily:

-Employers today are already offering "paternal/parental" leaves in their drive for inclusivity.

-Modern appliances, historically benefitting stay-at-home housewives, will enable "housedads" to focus on childrearing.

-Infant formula, while in no way a direct substitute for natural breast milk, has had tremendous growth in terms of available options and convenience.

Market-ready artificial wombs are just the final step in separating women from motherhood. Factor in maternity software packages for sexbots/domestic care bots and you can have children raised without a single woman's touch.

Blogger RedJack May 08, 2020 1:39 PM  

Had one feminist tell me that sexbots should be considered rape. Her reasoning was that the bot allow incells to have "sex", and was therefore rape. Didn't even try to reason with her.
One practical level, it would mean a reordering if society. All but the highest women would be excluded. Lower level men would turn away from women completely, and higher levels like betas and alphas would have a stable

Blogger Pratisara May 08, 2020 1:50 PM  

>>simple expectation of a man directing all of his sexual energy toward one woman did more to elevate the status of women in a culture than anything else.

Wow...that about sums it up!!

Blogger Vaughan Williams May 08, 2020 1:55 PM  

The sex bots as good as porn stars already came, and then vanished. I read reviews almost ten years ago; whether gay or straight, the men said the experience felt like the real thing, and of top calibre. One gay reviewer said afterward he still didn't like women, but vag felt better than the other modalities. Why disappear? Nothing public, but officially it had to do with patents and licensing.

Blogger HanoHano May 08, 2020 2:11 PM  

The ingenuity of man is limited by his understanding of the world he inhabits. The world by it's nature is beyond man's ability to fully understand. Therefore man's ingenuity is limited.

Even if these artificial wombs are made to work in some way. It will likely have the same result as genetic modification. Man will fail to grasp the limits of his own intellect and will bring about horrors. They will meddle with things beyond their comprehension and will as CS Lewis poetically put it, "pull down deep heaven on their heads".

And as far as sexbots are concerned let's face it. There is more to sex than just the physical. It is highly spiritual in nature. That is why God restrained it to marriage. With that spiritual aspect gone it will be empty and men will then seek the truth once again.

Blogger rumpole5 May 08, 2020 2:13 PM  

Re: "The reason young men strive for success has always been to obtain women and their favor." Coincidence is not necessarily causality. The striving for success (I would term it as excellence, not success) and striving for female companionship are two distinct drives. What young men have is lots and lots of energy that spills out into expressing both drives. One proof is that many homosexual men, who certainly are not so focused on women, achieve excellence in other endeavors.

Blogger J Van Stry May 08, 2020 2:17 PM  

There already is a response to feminism that is growing wildly throughout the world today: Islam.

How do you think they are managing to recruit young men from 1st world countries? From the USA, from Europe? Because they are promising these men women. Subservient women. Women as sexual slaves and just slaves in general.

Blogger doctrev May 08, 2020 3:21 PM  

This series has been absolutely fascinating as a thought experiment. It's all theoretical, though, reliant on the idea of a hardened yet tiny military core that is ready to suppress all dissent and establish a totalitarian society. While a Republic of Gilead would be a more effective (and more humane) society than one embracing modern feminism, such an overarching philosophy would need to be the centerpiece of the coup, much as anti-banksterism was the core of National Socialism. A successful coup is more likely to embrace some sort of ethnic principles, but even more likely to have the primary aim of "restoring the republic," which will be vague civnattery backed by arms. Between Michael Flynn and the anti-lockdown protests, you're seeing the core of such a movement develop in real time. Even purging the judiciary and military of feminist elements, necessary for such a restoration, will be a huge leap backwards for feminism- and a prerequisite for Gilead.

Of course, if that movement collapses violently due to aggressive state-level responses in New York/ Michigan, or something terrible happening to the President, then most of us might wish for something as pleasant and tolerant as Gilead to replace the ultranationalists...

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 08, 2020 3:52 PM  

"Anybody hear the word "prohibition?" Anybody?"

Prohibition wasn't enforced by an entire sex. The sexbot thing is almost certainly already possible, about the only thing even the pickiest would want is a sufficiently complex personality simulation on it. I expect all of this is suppressed much more than most people know, including the women enforcing the suppression who are mostly doing it at the subconscious level.

However if artificial wombs were in play at that point, the cries of the dears would fall on deaf ears, and they'd be killed off en-masse because of the extremes they pursued to do for themselves what the system wouldn't back them on anymore.

That pretty much leaves child rearing, which is a fool's errand to farm out to strangers, but possibly easier to automate than wombs.

"Her reasoning was that the bot allow incells to have "sex", and was therefore rape."

Unspoken: "without my permission".

"Lower level men would turn away from women completely, and higher levels like betas and alphas would have a stable"

Not even them. Likely the high quality women would be harvested for eggs for the artificial wombs in the first generation. After a generation or two any man could have a relatively high quality woman as a pet as long as they could afford the upkeep... good genetics would be a foregone conclusion.

The only question then is who'd want a large, intelligent, potentially dangerous pet? Maybe even less people than keep things like tigers and large reptiles now. Novelty items, maybe some Alphas would keep several around as a show for other men of "look at all the beasts I've tamed".

Pretty much the only thing stopping this is that A to Z artificial wombs are in the range of tech from "not anytime soon" to "never".

...Man, any feminist reading this thread is going to be screaming internally and probably externally too.

Blogger Amethyst Dominica May 08, 2020 4:07 PM  

I suspect with the r-selected conditions in the world today, the drive for promiscuity along with the lack of drive for child investment will result in increased advances in male/female controlled birth control and a plummeting of the birth rate by First Worlders. The only people who will want artificial wombs are the same sex attracted, the women who want 14 welfare-babies, and 52 year old women who realized they finally better get started on a family, otherwise they're going to have to witness their child's high school graduation remotely from the ICU of the local Nursing Home.

People in Patriarchal societies will still be having babies the old fashioned way, until the last egg of the last Progressive woman dies and society collapses completely.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 08, 2020 4:09 PM  

"The idea of having sex with a robot repulses me. I can't understand why so many guys think that will be such an awesome thing."

Me too, however things like masturbation and sexual promiscuity disgusted most not so long ago, hence pejoratives like wanker, strumpet, or philanderer, which have fallen out of favor for their actual meanings much like bugger which most US Americans don't even realize means sodomize. Botf***er would go the same way fast. Likely some of us would never get over it, but the next generation to be born would have no more to get over beyond seeing their elders' distaste for it.

The more disgusting, hazardous, and bothersome the women, the faster men would forget that it was ever repulsive, the alternative being often far more repulsive.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 08, 2020 4:12 PM  

Maybe it all would change hard and fast, though more likely soft and slow, yet change it would.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 08, 2020 4:18 PM  

"With that spiritual aspect gone it will be empty and men will then seek the truth once again."

And find it readily in God and seldom if at all in women. If they were to return it would be God bringing them, not women.

Blogger Long Live The West May 08, 2020 4:21 PM  

"P.S. The idea of having sex with a robot repulses me. I can't understand why so many guys think that will be such an awesome thing."

Go look at porn statistics. You'll find that most won't care. It's simply taking porn one step further. Make that two steps. VR porn is one step, and most people who haven't as of yet are going to embrace it before too long.

Blogger Akulkis May 08, 2020 5:12 PM  

"P.S. The idea of having sex with a robot repulses me. I can't understand why so many guys think that will be such an awesome thing."

For the same reason so many are fascinated with artificial boobs: Emotionally infantile.

Blogger Wanderor May 08, 2020 5:25 PM  

A few thoughts and observations.

Women follow men. Low-status men follow high-status men. High-status men decide what's valuable in society. If high-status men highly value the work that stay-at-home mothers do, then other men will do the same. Eventually, women will gravitate towards being stay-at-home mothers because that work will be highly valued societally.

Right now, far too many high-status men value money, fame, and power over the value of a mother at home or family in general. Take Steve Jobs. He had a stay-at-home wife for their kids. But he was so ignorant of the value she was creating, he once mentioned to her how surprising it was that their kids grew up to be well-functioning individuals. You can imagine her reaction.

I once knew a right-wing, money-obsessed billionaire with a bunch of kids. He demanded that his wife pay for half of their houshold expenses. You can imagine what happend to that family.

Contrast these men to Vladimir Putin. He turns up at female police officer events to exhort and praise the work of stay-at-home mothers. The women were ecstatic.

Contrast the money/fame/power obsessed men to right-wing men like Vox, Owen, David the Good, Cernovich, and Molyneux. All these men are family men. They stay close to their family a majority of the time, and often are directly involved in raising their kids. All of them speak highly of the value their wives's domestic work create.

A lot of us men are singularly focused on our own work and glory. When you go to a party and there are two females: 1) a SAHM homeschooling and raising 4 kids and 2) a highly-successful female in your field of interest, which do you gravitate towards?

I remember speaking to a happy SAHM at a party once. I complimented how incredibly beautiful she kept her home. She was happy to receive the compliment and acknowledged it required a lot of hours and hard work. People want societal recognition and credit.

Finally, do boys who grow up helping raise their siblings develop a more nurturing instinct when they are fathers? Do they value the work of SAHMs more than other men in general?

Blogger HanoHano May 08, 2020 5:59 PM  

"The more disgusting, hazardous, and bothersome the women, the faster men would forget that it was ever repulsive, the alternative being often far more repulsive."

Yes, but my point is they would find it ultimately as unfulfilling as porn is to men today. And with no higher point in pornagraphic indulgence to ascend to they would be driven back to real women.

"And find it readily in God and seldom if at all in women. If they were to return it would be God bringing them, not women."

I was referring to the truth about sexuality not the Truth of Jesus Christ. Of course the Truth is found only in God. God himself said it is not good for man to be alone. No sexbot will be able to fill that void that God filled with woman.

"For the same reason so many are fascinated with artificial boobs: Emotionally infantile"

That is what I am getting at. I don't forsee a group of infantile gammas who spend their days wanking into a robot to end up being the driving behind how society treats women. More likely men will just get fed up with it and force women back into a subservient roll. Women are very moldable creatures and even though society has rendered them less so most women do desire men to lead them.

The point I am getting at is that a society where men only have sex with robots, children are grown in artificial wombs and real women are kept only as pets for rich men is MGTOW gamma fantasy. The society would never make it off the proverbial run way because unlike our current society which has slowly ben convinced to reject the nuclear family, the sexbot society would be starting off with a rejection of family and therefore could do nothing but fall flat.

A society of children raised without mothers is just as unviable as one without fathers. And what of the men who's artificial wombs produced for them a daughter? Do you really think the majority of men would be willing to give up their daughter to be harvested for her eggs? Perhaps, but as someone who has experienced the joys a daughter can bring you (mine is almost 2) I am dubious of this proposition. Truth will always win out and family is truth.

P.S. I have never participated in a debate on this or any blog before. Not usually my thing. So I am sorry if I am being an agitator.

Blogger Unknown May 08, 2020 7:23 PM  

Dont you need to do cloning for artificial wombs to work? If you dont clone then you need to make ova. But if you do Clone then men become unnecessary. And you dont need artificial wombs.

Blogger ScottC May 08, 2020 8:45 PM  

The more disgusting, hazardous, and bothersome the women, the faster men would forget that it was ever repulsive, the alternative being often far more repulsive.

It's almost like incentives matter.

Blogger Kiwi May 08, 2020 10:03 PM  

Feminism causes women to hate men which causes men to hate women.

This is the satanist goal, this is their plan, to separate the two.

Satanists want reproduction without the union.

They want one not two.

Blogger John Rockwell May 08, 2020 11:52 PM  

<a href="/2020/05/impossible-

P.S. The idea of having sex with a robot repulses me. I can't understand why so many guys think that will be such an awesome thing.</em></i>

Many guys have low standards or are incels:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=168948903

Show this to anyone to see why use of sexbots are inevitable.

Blogger CostelloM May 09, 2020 12:01 AM  

The tac that the doll manufacturers will make if they're smart is to use their profits to bribe government officials to hand single women a "living wage". The real issue for women is one of investment by men. They don't particularly care if we're around for the most part but they absolutely demand our wallets be present. If dolls can replace women as is likely then all the rheeing can be silenced by simply throwing money at women they way the government sold them divorce many decades ago. Promise them goodies and they won't care about bots. Sustainable? Not in the slightest but if you're a sexbot manufacturer this is how you get the feminist women off your case so as to make a quick buck until societal breakdown eliminates you and your business.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 09, 2020 12:25 AM  

"Yes, but my point is they would find it ultimately as unfulfilling as porn is to men today. And with no higher point in pornagraphic indulgence to ascend to they would be driven back to real women."

Who would usually be even less fulfilling and more painful. This sort of thing doesn't get acceleration in the first place in a society where women are worth the risk. If we had that sort of artificial womb system readily available, there would not only be no temporal incentive for pleasure, but no long term incentive for children either.

You might be surprised how many men would take on children if it didn't mean being stuck with a harpy. There would also be heavy incentive to eradicate the harpies from the workplace as overcompensated, underperforming competition, and no more excuse for thereby making it harder for the men to support said children that they actually cared about.

What you are describing is a near perfect analogue of an emotional support pet. See above, if men came back it would be because of God, not women. You have to think of man's relationship to God backward to think that he receives it even in majority through the woman. At best the woman joins all the rest of nature in revealing God to the man, but generally it's the other way around and what the woman thinks of the man is the largest single force shaping what she thinks of God.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 09, 2020 12:44 AM  

"But if you do Clone then men become unnecessary. And you dont need artificial wombs."

No, cloning has to use either a surrogate mother or an artificial womb. The deal then is, you could likely get acquire material from an excellent selection of donors relatively cheap, to add to your own or even perhaps without your own.

Men would still be useful for labor, engineering, discerning, and so on. Meanwhile women are smaller, weaker pound for pound and by volume, slower, less resistant on average to mortal disease, slightly less intellectually capable on average, with comparatively vanishingly few very high intellectual performers, and more often lacking in self discipline.

Women's standout advantages are: They can bear children, they are good for a parental soft bounds/nurturing, they are good for division of labor to take care of the household, they look good to men, and they probably aid in filtering out the particularly degenerate Y chromosomes or otherwise bad bloodlines due to things like snowballing malapropos traditions.

Blogger Skuli Jakobsson May 09, 2020 1:25 AM  

Feminism is a belief that women have no value unless they act like men.
Men will solve that for them as men always do. Women are already begging men for salvation from their self-destructive women's heaven on earth fantasy.
It will be very interesting to see what solution or solutions men come up with as men are masters in funding ways to turn, what seems useless things, into useful things for themselfs. Sand into Concrete
or silicon et cetera.
Life is Good.

Blogger Scuzzaman May 09, 2020 2:46 AM  

@ZhukovG

Right. Agreed.

Interesting thing about your last point; if you approach it from the biblical perspective then you see it might not be ideal for Man to be alone but it’s possible.

It’s not even possible for Woman to be (ie to exist) alone as “she was taken out of Man”.

This original order of precedence remains and no political philosophy can overturn it. They can only resist it and eventually be broken by it.

Blogger Don Vance May 09, 2020 7:18 AM  

"Always something of a paranoid, his spies were everywhere and the number of his victims, countless."

'paranoia is a virtue to be trained and cultivated', from a novel, Child 44 by Tom Rob Smith

I didn't finish the novel because it was too nihlistic. It was about a Russian man being persecuted by his former employer, the Russian police system. I saved this quote for my inspiration board b/c it seemed very wise.

Blogger Pratisara May 09, 2020 8:09 AM  

>>slower, less resistant on average to mortal disease

Women have a stronger immune system than men.

Womb + man = Woman

Blogger Tars Tarkas May 09, 2020 9:50 AM  

If feminism goes away, it is going to be because feminists made the "system" untenable. As women have taken over higher education, they have made the universities at large unfit for purpose. As the attacks on STEM continue unabated, it too will be rendered unfit for purpose.

One aspect of feminism he missed in this article is how its tentacles go out in many directions. Most of the equality and diversity and LGBT mantras come out of feminism. Feminism today is not in any way confined to women or even primarily about women. It has infected just about every subject in the university, where it is the strongest.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 09, 2020 2:38 PM  

"It's almost like incentives matter."

It's almost like you missed the part where we don't have artificial wombs in reality, dumbshit.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 09, 2020 2:42 PM  

"Women have a stronger immune system than men."

Blatantly untrue.

Blogger sammibandit May 10, 2020 1:13 AM  

A simple thought experiment is all that's needed to show that. What heals better all else equal,

A) puncture wound
B) infected uterus

The fact that tomes exist detailing gladiatorial injuries, and therefore trauma injuries, before robust tomes on female reproduction shows that healing the menfolk was easier for the patient and the surgeon. Heck, Galen made a career out of healing gladiators through surgery. No heroic medicine if the pt is likely to die.

I may be remembering the following wrong. But in the Sacred Disease (grand mal epilepsy) treatise from Ancient Greece I recall a forethought that female infants were more likely to die than male infants. Yeah the nervous system =/= immune system but don't tell me they're not related. No brain to govern immunity = no immunity.

Blogger Dole May 10, 2020 6:04 AM  

Women suffrage was possibly the biggest mistake in the history of the West. Great article, thanks Vox.

Blogger Red Pill Angel May 10, 2020 4:40 PM  

OK, so the sexbots will entrance all the men, I give it, say, 10-15 years, no more, meanwhile every other job besides sex will also be given to high-end robots, because, hey, what could go wrong? Then we'll all be unnecessary. For movie prophecy category, please see Terminator, Terminator 2, etc., etc. Like I said, what could go wrong?

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