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Friday, May 01, 2020

Proximity equals possibility

Zeroh Tollrants wonders, in light of the ruin that is now games, why anyone ever wanted more women in gaming:
I need an explanation as to why any man thought it would be awesome to have women involved in their games. No one should trust anyone that dumb.
The gammas and omegas who make up the larger part of the RPG players and wargamers imagined that if women started spending time playing games with them, those women would be willing to date them. So they sacrificed their hobbies to their mostly unsatiated desires and wound up with SJWs policing their games.

It's not hard to tell which of them still believes that price was worth paying.

Labels: ,

90 Comments:

Blogger ScottC May 01, 2020 6:11 AM  

Omegas? Hell no. I know my own kind. We always wanted our escape from reality. The lion's share of #GG were omegas sick of the SJW infestation of gaming.

The guys who wanted women in gaming were motivated by virtue signalling (gammas), and the mating tactic you describe here (gammas again).

Blogger Shane Bradman May 01, 2020 6:28 AM  

Why is it that "gamers" are always infuriating to be around? They can't hold a normal conversation. With such a large and popular market that games are now, I would have expected more friendly and normal people playing games. It's gone the other way and now there are more insufferable pricks than ever. Perhaps we should think about banning videogames in order to facilitate better social growth.

Blogger A rebel without a General May 01, 2020 6:43 AM  

We omegas may be bottom rung and desperate for girls, but we know whats a lost cause and refuse to allow one of our last refuge to be sullied by the anyone.

Blogger The Cooler May 01, 2020 6:44 AM  

Some gammas come off as quite premeditated... cunning, even. Others seem to be on autopilot in a manner similar to how women are compulsive shit test machines -- the women I'm most attracted to, anyway.

Maybe we change the gamma by observing him.

Blogger Doomfinger May 01, 2020 6:49 AM  

Just look at The Last of Us 2 leaks. Gamestop Ma'am beats a beloved character to death because Anita Sarkeesian.

Blogger Bobiojimbo May 01, 2020 6:52 AM  

True. Many thirsty bois in the game shops.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 01, 2020 6:54 AM  

The same guys who want more women in the workplace, except not so many omegas. Most of them realize that's not flying.

Blogger Sillon May 01, 2020 6:56 AM  

"To have women involved in their games"

The only hobby women should be involved in with men is making babies.

That's their speciality and the only role where they shine and can do better than any man.

Nature is what it is, and things are the way god intended them to be.

Blogger MichaelJMaier May 01, 2020 6:58 AM  

What makes it worse is the SJW broads that want in so bad usually look like roadkill and have awful manners and attitudes.

Look at how many cows do cosplay at conventions. "No, honey... Wonder Woman is not 'curvy' in the comics. You're carrying enough fat for three healthy girls."

Blogger Lazarus May 01, 2020 7:01 AM  

Gammas ruin everything.

Blogger Doktor Jeep May 01, 2020 7:19 AM  

"So they sacrificed their hobbies to their mostly unsatiated desires and wound up with SJWs policing their games."
The shooting sports world is also infected with this bullshit, though not to such extent as games given different demographics. Had my fill of these "conservative" women who shoot but God help you if you bring up the damage done by women's suffrage or letting women into the military.
As for omegas letting women into gameing.... Those who don't try to become women are mainly trying to get away from them.

Blogger CoolHand May 01, 2020 7:22 AM  

Heh. The stench of Gamma is so bad that even Omegas balk at being lumped in with them.

Blogger steb May 01, 2020 7:23 AM  

@1 - Agreed. Omegas may have let it happen but it was the gammas' plan.

Blogger Damelon Brinn May 01, 2020 7:25 AM  

Yes. There's a meme that sums it up, with a hideous looking guy and a caption that says, "Maybe a woman will touch my peepee if I agree with her enough."

Blogger LAZ May 01, 2020 7:33 AM  

Women who hang out with groups of guys are looking for the same thing. What the gamers didn't take into account is that women won't sleep with mouth-breathers who live in their parent's basement.

Blogger Blue88 May 01, 2020 7:49 AM  

Seriously, Not that I want to be stupid, but your comment makes me vomit. Not makes me want to. Makes me vomit. Like the Chinese say, It is all so tiresome

Blogger Mr.MantraMan May 01, 2020 7:54 AM  

Game needed more now than ever. As I tell a many a young potential traditionalist, fine to read the old books, the new books and all the smarty essays but it has to be laid upon a firm foundation of Frame. You ain't got Frame you will be bent over by any lickspittle Cultural Marxist spewing their rhetoric of isms, ists and phobias.

EG; any of those literate posters on the Tolkien thread that uttered the word "racist", how do you think they would fare against any mid wit Cult Marxist? IMO beaten like a prison sissy boy.

Blogger Nihil Dicit May 01, 2020 8:19 AM  

It's gone the other way and now there are more insufferable pricks than ever

We've always been outnumbered by the insufferable pricks. Even in more beneficial pastimes such as team sports, there's plenty of IPs.

Blogger Stilicho May 01, 2020 8:35 AM  

That's gonna leave a mark

Blogger Cataline Sergius May 01, 2020 8:47 AM  

The gammas and omegas who make up the larger part of the RPG players and wargamers imagined that if women started spending time playing games with them, those women would be willing to date them.

Gammas can ONLY approach women sideways.

A direct approach of "I find you desirable and I know you feel the same way about me. We should do something about this," is too terrifying for them. They literally can NOT approach woman that way.

So the only approach they can make is the Sideways approach.

The only strategy open to them is "let's be friends." Then after that relationship is established attempt to slowly subvert that into something warmer by becoming "close friends." And finally trying to subvert that further into "intimate friends" when they finally work up the Herculean courage to say let's have coffee together, just you and me.

The important key to this whole thing is forcing women into a situation where proximity can't be avoided. Then trying to get the woman to like them.

Feminism seems to be any easy way for them to do this. They only have to publicly reject what they have already rejected; Masculinity.



And yes this strategy will work after a fashion. But the only thing the Gamma is getting out of it, is the woman who gave up on life.

Blogger David The Good May 01, 2020 8:57 AM  

No gardening together?

Blogger Trid May 01, 2020 9:00 AM  

Fat ugly women are particularly skilled at nagging. Gammas think they'll get their pp touched (or finally become the sad little king of a sad little game store), and Omegas lack both the confidence and social capital to push back.

Just my opinion, but I think the original blend of Omega/Gamma players influences how the post convergence game changes. Rules heavy games like MtG get converged very quickly and become infested with gamma SJW BS and rules lawyering. Other games like DnD with high numbers of Omega players see them withdraw and create new games, over and over and over.

Blogger Kraemer May 01, 2020 9:20 AM  

Not all customers of video games are "gamers" per se. A large share of the gaming market is popular, delta-appealing franchises such as Call of Duty or FIFA, and then there are women-centric games such as Animal Crossing or The Sims.

Blogger Akulkis May 01, 2020 9:29 AM  

> "To have women involved in their games"
>
> The only hobby women should be involved in with men is making babies.
>
> That's their speciality and the only role where they shine and can do better than any man.
>
>

Loathe as I am to get women into wargaming, I suggest you look into the WW2 WRENs of the Western Approaches Tactical Unit who beat Karl Dönitz in the real life contest for the North Atlantic. Destroyer captains, squadron commanders, and everyone else involved in anti-sub warfare looked to suggestions and advice from W.A.T.U. as words from God himself.

Every theater outside of the Eastern Front depended on getting men, weapons, equipment, food, fuel, ammunition, and everything else across the Atlantic, and the North Atlantic was the most U-boat friendly, as the never-calm seas make it easy for small, diesel-electric subs to get relatively close to their prey as compared to the calmer seas the other convoy routes.

Of course, those were girls at W.A.T.U. were born in the era 1910~1920 (contemporaries of Britain's current Queen), and were nothing like modern women. On top of that, they knew that their OWN lives, and of male family members and boyfriends depending on winning the games they were playing.

Legitimate wins, not through the modern girls' appeals to "Stop being mean to me, I'm just a girl," nor "how dare you be mean to me and make me cry. I'm a strong, independent woman!"

A good synopsis by Lindy Beige:

Search Results
Web results



The wargamers who won a real war

>
>

Blogger Ledford Ledford May 01, 2020 9:33 AM  

What's going on with Dungeons & Dragons? I hear that as many young women play now as young men. Almost no women played when I was teenager. It was mostly oriented toward map-making, combat, and looting, with everyone wanting to be Conan or Gandalf. A couple half-orc renegade a$$holes. Starting to make myself nostalgic typing about it.

Anyone play it now? What's it like?

Blogger pyrrhus May 01, 2020 9:42 AM  

“And Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” And he said, “Legion”......

Blogger Azimus May 01, 2020 9:48 AM  

This all came from a misunderstanding - when the first guy uttered "we need to see more women in games", he meant more 4-color CGA renderings of T&A, and women from the back pages ads in Computer Gaming World.

Blogger Darren May 01, 2020 9:51 AM  

This disorder might need a name, maybe Joss Whedon Hope Syndrome.

Blogger Darren May 01, 2020 9:55 AM  

I wouldn't be surprised if these evil cultural scolds attack the 1985 arcade classic Gauntlet as "problematic". After all, of 4 playable characters there is only one Strong Woman.

Blogger Darren May 01, 2020 9:55 AM  

MPAI... Most of the remainder are IP.

Blogger Darren May 01, 2020 10:01 AM  

Huamn survival instinct can be a helluva motivator.
It is virtually absent today in most first world environments. "Good times make weak men" = truth. May these current hard times be the start of a major course correction, an accelerating influx of BB and DtG just one aspect of the more important recovery than just jorbs.

Blogger Leahn Novash May 01, 2020 10:11 AM  

@25 D&D 4th was an attempt to make a MMO out of D&D. That was the last one I played. D&D Next (5th), as far as I can remember, was an attempt to remake a SJW version of AD&D.

Blogger Out of Nod May 01, 2020 10:14 AM  

You want to sell a hobby? Show an attractive woman doing that hobby. Instagram, Sports Illustrated, and Car magazines are proof. Sex sells and the marketters know this.

Blogger Out of Nod May 01, 2020 10:22 AM  

D&D? Rehashes of the same old, same old but better tools to work with. My co-workers (1 girl, 7 guys) are playing a Ravenloft campaign. My sister plays it online and her kids are into it. It doesn't have the stigma it once had.

Blogger Yossarian May 01, 2020 10:24 AM  

Trying to picture what their train of thought was is immensely funny to me.
>first we make all these movies and tv-shows showing how cool gamer girls are
>then we shame people into accepting women as game devs
>then we move heaven and earth to cater to their every whim
>then we get a chance to sit next to them while playing video games
>then we impress them with our gaming skills and Monty Python quotes
>then we get friendzoned
>then we spend ungodly amounts of money on them to get out of the friendzone
>then when she's a middle-aged purple-haired single mother after being dumped by Chad McBiceps we finally get a date
>then we get engaged and pay for hormone treatment
>then we finally marry our husbands
>then we finally get laid
>then we win

Blogger FisherOfMen May 01, 2020 10:26 AM  

>Anyone play it now? What's it like?

https://guysgirl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/ScreenHunter_04-May.-13-22.20.jpg

Blogger Jose Miguel May 01, 2020 10:46 AM  

@Ledford Ledford

I've never played D&D or any other role playing games. My wife and one of her sisters did/do. That was my first personal realization of the gamma mating strategy. One of the gammas went ballistic that she decided to date a six foot musical powerlifting stranger over any of the guy friends, aka him, in that specific circle. I read two of that guys' email screeds he sent my wife before she blocked him.

I'm not saying all D&Der's are low on the SSH, my Olympic lifting coach was a D&D player, natural bravo or alpha and he was always beating back women in those circles and the gym. Something tells me that screed writing gamma would have hated him at least as much as me. If anything any masculine man would have an easier time picking up those girls there because the difference in apparent masculinity between him and the norm would be greater than real life.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction May 01, 2020 10:47 AM  

@25

Dungeon and Dragons has famous, and sometimes very good looking, celebrities who play and/or have their own channel dedicated to playing with other voice actors and celebrities so that the games end up being end up being entertaining to watch.

The kind of game you get still very much depends on the group and DM but overall the ruthless "the player can die at any time" and "there will be no hand holding" style of play has long since gone the way of the dodo.

Blogger Oswald May 01, 2020 10:47 AM  

We let a friend's girlfriend play Magic with us. Her skills were almost average, which could be lived with, but she skewed the game, because if you attacked her, her boyfriend might attack you, and of course, the boyfriend was very hesitant to attack her when it was the right thing to do. I don't like such games where there are built in alliances, unless of course I am one of members of the alliance!

Blogger ZhukovG May 01, 2020 10:56 AM  

@Ledford Ledford: When I was young, I played quite a bit of DnD. As an adult, particularly during my time in the military, I drifted away from it as I began to prefer real adventure(scuba diving, backpacking etc.).

A few years ago, I was working for a tech company that had some DnD players. They invited me to join them and I thought, what the hell, why not.

The first thing that struck me was that the new editions of DnD were extremely rule heavy. Almost like a Southern Baptist converting to Orthodox Judaism.

But the real shocker was that I could no longer relate to the players. I no longer knew them. Like I was visiting a foreign country and could kind of speak the language, but couldn't understand the culture.

I am not a very good judge of SSH, so I won't presume to know where this group of players stood, but it was strange nevertheless.

Blogger wreckage May 01, 2020 11:17 AM  

I've played a few games with women. It went OK. In a room full of gammas and omegas a quite average woman can go on an absolute socio-sexual power trip, which will probably be a problem in its own right.

Blogger Jab Burrwalky May 01, 2020 11:19 AM  

Converged. Rainbows everywhere and hints that next edition will remove essentially all distinction between races.

Elves are all transsexual. Published adventures all have several gay npc couples and bizzarre interracial families.

The rules in 5th are simplified, which I admit is nice in a lot of ways, but also feels very limiting and leaves a lot to be made up ad hoc.

Last group I played with, the girls were either coerced wives of other players, or an archSJW who lived with her "partner" and insisted on calling him and having him referred to as her "partner" not boyfriend or any other normal term. The other girl was a white girl with dreadlocks who looked like she would fit in in an antifa riot.

Dm'd one game for them at the request of an acquaintance. Then said "nope."

The guys were pretty chill Omega types. But clearly desperate for female attention with no idea of how to actually attract a psychologically stable girl, so they hung out with the freaks. Who of course, were romantically disinterested anyway.

Blogger CM May 01, 2020 11:22 AM  

I'm with David. Women shouldn't be in charge of anything - that I can get behind. But even the most conservative and traditional of women want to partner with their husbands beyond baby making. They want a partner in Parenting, building a home together, etc.

There should be some things husbands and wives do together that builds that ability to work as a team (with leader and follower) and builds trust and reliance. There should also be things that they do apart.

Blogger Akulkis May 01, 2020 11:30 AM  

"Women who hang out with groups of guys are looking for the same thing."

Making sure that no men, anywhere, can have some male-only activity.

Blogger Akulkis May 01, 2020 11:34 AM  

"Had my fill of these "conservative" women who shoot but God help you if you bring up the damage done by women's suffrage or letting women into the military."

The only sane women on those subjects are Ann Coulter and Phyllis Schlafly. All the rest want decision-making power without the work and pain. Ann and Phyllis said that the power isn't worth the work and pain to get them.

Blogger Silly but True May 01, 2020 11:39 AM  

Vox's wisdom on this subject continuously gets confirmed with each and every creeping entry:
"The time to smack down the SJW entryists is when the camel first sticks its nose in the tent, not when it is already fully ensconced and defecating all over the carpets."
https://voxday.blogspot.com/2015/02/entryism-in-progress.html#comment-form

Blogger Silly but True May 01, 2020 11:43 AM  

Also understanding that commercial publishing, including gaming in general and RPGs specifically, is a zero sum game; publishers don't have unlimited resources to spend on every whim, usually have multiple projects in progress for which it generates expenses, and has a finite capacity in any given year for which it plans to publish and release product to market.

One avenue, proving largely unsuccessful as long-term strategy is to replace one's primary consumers with a completely new set of consumers. This has been the course of Marvel, DC Comics, Wizards of the Coast, CRPG publishers, et. al.

Another strategy, more successful, is to keep your customers happy, and when it reasonably makes sense and proves to be sustainable, then attempt overtures towards increasing new customers, including new demographics otherwise not part of core buyers.

Blogger CM May 01, 2020 11:48 AM  

So the only approach they can make is the Sideways approach.

Ok... now if women are basically gammas, how do THEY approach men?

Maybe I'm getting a bit defensive here. I basically entered all these geek/nerd things via guys I was dating and mostly stayed with them only while in the relationship (except World of Warcraft).

Women approach men sideways. They are angling for the guy to make a move, but first he needs to notice them. Not all women are knock outs, but not necessarily that far down the scale, either. They need to distinguish themselves from the knockouts. One way of doing that among single men that only see knock outs is participating in something alongside them. Distinguishing themselves as not mocking their hobbies or pursuits but demonstrating a value in them.

We do this in camping, boating, climbing, shooting, and many other hobbies men enjoy.

If most of the men these less than pretty women can get are gaming nerds who don't do much else, what other way to get his attention than affirming his hobbies by participating in them?

I've seen single women in their 30s publicly mocking men's hobbies from hunting to fishing to cars to gaming. Surely that isn't what men want - a woman who nags them to quit their hobby or ridicules them for it.

I think the SJW female gamers are the ones even the nerds rejected.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants May 01, 2020 11:50 AM  

I am a grandmother of 8.

Blogger OvergrownHobbit May 01, 2020 11:57 AM  

@21 Gardening with your husband is more of a way-of-life choice.

@24 Women in a thorough-going Christian culture can do pretty well at a lot of things. See also Fencing Bear's classes on the Middle ages.

Because Christianity thwarts the Daughters of Eves' original sin, which is to stamp their pretty feet and insist "my will be done;" And it hobbled the Sons of Adam's which is to defy our Lord, and say "Yes, milady."

The feminine and masculine both rebel in their own ways, and it ruins everything.

Blogger JonM May 01, 2020 12:22 PM  

It's pretty bad. They changed the game from a complex mathematical and info based game with clear victory conditions to one where relationships (both in game and at the table) drive things and "everybody gets a trophy". Nowadays the official product is a playground for wannabe and lazy writers who just want a loose framework for manipulating others into hearing thier stories. The products are thoroughly pozzed, too.

There is a small remnant of grognards pushing a return to the old school, and a cottage industry of product dedicated to the actual games as they were before they caught gaming AIDS, though.

Blogger OvergrownHobbit May 01, 2020 12:30 PM  

@33 That's how you make money off people's hobbies.

Men messing about with something that interests them always comes first.

Blogger AzDesertRat May 01, 2020 12:34 PM  

@ Ledford Ledford

I don't play D&D, but I do my fair share of tabeletop wargaming, so there is some overlap with participants and game store space. Modern D&D is straight up emotional feel good storytelling. It is catered towards the female brain and emotional state. Everyone is a super special character with their own unique backstory, some of which reach novella length, and this is BEFORE any adventure starts. Combat is arbitrary and there are about a million ways to bring someone back from the dead (and DM's are OFFICIALLY encouraged to do so), so there are little to no consequences with any actions. This is one of the reasons why the OSR movement has the backing/momentum that it does.
My favorite example of what current D&D looks like happened about a year and a half ago. I was setting up for a wargame and was within earshot of a table of 5e D&D players. They were just starting a new session/adventure and the DM was going around the table and getting everyone's backstory. The group was around 8 people, roughly equal split between sexes, and every girl's character was some kind of emotionally damaged female with a support animal, and most of them had fantastical powers. There was tons of angst and even some instances of sexual assault survivors and the whole time most everyone else at the table, including the DM, was going on and on about how interesting and "unique" they all were.
As I'm listening to this I notice one guy sitting at the table looking very uncomfortable. When it came time for him to give his character backstory his friend pipes up and tells everyone this is his first time playing D&D. The guy says "I'm a fighter. I have an axe." They then spent a good TWENTY MINUTES trying to get him to create some elaborate backstory. The DM was asking him crap like "Is he angry? Did something happen to him as a child? What are his motivations?" to which the guy replied, "Um, kill things and get gold" and you could SEE the recoil happen with the rest of the group. He didn't end up sitting there for very long and eventually wandered over to see what we were playing and became a semi-regular in our wargame group. So, happy ending.

Blogger Silly but True May 01, 2020 12:36 PM  

Darren,

They evil cultural scolds will do even one better:

"Gauntlet 2020: The Strong Woman is really a transgender."

Valkyries will complain at no longer being able to compete on the battlefield, and that men are now using Valhalla's restrooms, but the evil cultural scolds don't actually value women to begin with.

Blogger Akulkis May 01, 2020 12:44 PM  

"Seriously, Not that I want to be stupid, but your comment makes me vomit."

Context helps, Blue88.

WHO are you addressing your retort towards?

Blogger Akulkis May 01, 2020 12:48 PM  

@25 Ledford Ledford

Look up the South Park episode The Board Girls Gaming Club.

Blogger Silly but True May 01, 2020 12:49 PM  

@Doktor Jeep:
"The shooting sports world is also infected with this bullshit"

So true. My dad used to participate in monthly reenactor shooting events where participants had to cosplay 1700's French fur-trade era rendezvous. He found it fun because initially, there were strict guidelines on bringing and using only period correct belongings. Most of the initial participants who set the club up, including my dad, actually hand-crafted their own black powder firearms to use. After a time, women began participating, first was a weird assexual old cat lady spinster, I'm quite sure wasn't a lesbian but probably had been a tom boy her entire life, whom one could imagine had disposition to engage in man's hobby with all men. Eventually, a surprise to myself, is that she had other women friends and they began to join as well, all of them not quite so eccentric. But very quickly, they got annoyed with strict adherence to period correct objects, and had no skill or desire to actually engage in their own production of necessary items, and the club actually voted to modify the rules to accommodate. Very quickly that then got out of control and became just monthly camping trip amongst acquaintances. My dad quit participating because the one element for the uniqueness of the club was obliterated.

Blogger Out of Nod May 01, 2020 1:02 PM  

@Jab Sounds like PNW brand with a slight hint of Portland

Blogger Akulkis May 01, 2020 1:10 PM  

"Wizards of the Coast, "

Those morons got the ENTIRE Avalon Hill cache (except for Axis & Allies, which Hasbro retained, because Pl4Stlc Pl4yIn9 P33c3s r s0 kewl doodz!!!!) , and did nothing with it, other than allow MMP to take the ASL tranch... and then when MMP wanted to make an electronic document version of the rules, blocked the entire project, but not until MMP was most of the way towards completion.

Wizards of the Coast... the name stinks to high heaven of gamma-ocraty.

Blogger Damelon Brinn May 01, 2020 1:13 PM  

What's going on with Dungeons & Dragons? I hear that as many young women play now as young men.

That's probably a marketing lie, but I assume the numbers are higher than they were in the 80s, when the only girls at D&D games were girlfriends. I haven't played in ages, but I kind of keep up with what's going on. It sounds like the newer versions have been dumbed down and are much more on-the-rails and story-focused. The influence of movies means that players expect their heroes to A) almost always survive, and B) progress steadily through a campaign to a heroic ending. There's also a lot of "story gaming," where it's all about your character's backstory and how that develops in the game.

None of this has anything to do with old-school (OSR) D&D, where the PCs started as fairly blank slates and the world was deadly, so it was a big deal if one survived long enough to develop some character of his own. Then, grinding through dungeons was the *point* of the game, but now it's just a means to advance your character through the story.

Blogger RedJack May 01, 2020 1:23 PM  

Interesting. My oldest likes DnD but is more interested in Princesses(as a little girl should be ).

I have noticed some of the newer games put my teeth on edge. Got the new XCOM game, and while the mechanics are good it is a forced SJW story of a strong black woman team leader avenging the death of a Liberated Strong Alien female mayor against the Evil White male humans. So, basically XCOM lost in XCOM 2 and you are playing as a quisling. How about a good game with no message?

Oh well. Weather is warm so time to plant and shoot. Games are for winter

Blogger Akulkis May 01, 2020 1:59 PM  

" But very quickly, they got annoyed with strict adherence to period correct objects, and had no skill or desire to actually engage in their own production of necessary items, and the club actually voted to modify the rules to accommodate."

The ONLY standards women recognize is "does X have a piece of paper by someone else saying ABC?"

Other than that, women generally abhor standards of any sort because maintaining standards isn't "inclusive." Garden of Eden. Lot's wife. Various wives of Isreali kings (northern kingdom).

Blogger Scott May 01, 2020 2:08 PM  

I believe D&D got swarmed by girls when Acquisitions Inc and Critical Roll got big.

The last time I tried to play D&D was through Roll20. The game was DM'd by a high school kid, 17 years old. The party was a group of four high school girls and a gay high school boy.

I told the DM I didn't feel comfortable playing with children, especially underage girls and told him to find someone else his own age. He begged me to play, because he thought I could "show his friends how to play D&D the right way."

I made a character, and within 30 minutes the rest of the party had turned the story into a harem with everyone else cat fighting over my character, in game.

I quit. I can't believe I've lived long enough to see my Orc killing game become Desperate Housewives of Dragons.

Blogger Scott May 01, 2020 2:33 PM  

"I think the SJW female gamers are the ones even the nerds rejected."

They have an entire world full of people to annoy, why do they have to ruin my hobby?

Blogger Jose Miguel May 01, 2020 2:55 PM  

@Akulkis

My father has built up a collection of old Avalon Hill games. I loved playing those as a child, as did my brothers. It's sad how much is out of print, my hated of copyright grows evermore and I'm getting close to strait up making my own copies of these old board games for my own children to play.

Blogger map May 01, 2020 3:08 PM  

Akulkis wrote:Loathe as I am to get women into wargaming, I suggest you look into the WW2 WRENs of the Western Approaches Tactical Unit who beat Karl Dönitz in the real life contest for the North Atlantic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVet82IUAqQ

I went to the link and watched the first 15 minutes of the presentation, the problem that the WREN’s supposedly solved. According to the documentary, when convoy ships came under attack by German U-Boats, the standard strategy was for the escorts to scatter to the outer waters to hunt for the sub. The theory was that the subs were attacking from a distance. The WRENs wargamed the idea that the Germans were doing something more audacious: they were actually slipping into the convoy traffic itself and picking out the targets. Why, then, did the U-Boat not get picked up on sonar? The U-Boats were riding on the surface of the water because the faster travel allowed them to catch up to the convoy. Why, then, did the U-Boat not show up on radar? Well, the U-Boat’s signature got “mixed-in” with the rest of the radar traffic, thus they were hard to spot.

The WREN solution was to have the escort ships drop back behind the convoy and search for the sub in a zigzag pattern, using the sonar and radar to pinpoint the sub.

It’s a nice story…but it makes no sense.

Radar systems overlap with both the open ocean and the convoy itself. Unless the U-Boat somehow slips into convoy traffic near the port and then simply rides with them on the surface until they hit deeper waters, it would not be possible for a U-Boat to avoid the radar overlap on the open ocean. Any U-Boat travelling on the surface would get picked up on the outer-edge of the radar envelope. It would not be possible for them to “slip-in” unless by accident or a lack of training and tactics on radar/sonar usage when the technology was first introduced.

Basically, this story cannot be true. What we have here is another example of “Hidden Figures” literature, where people with no history of actually accomplishing anything are written of as if they did, beyond the most obvious examples. Why, for example, would you staff a naval research office with women who have math skills and no naval experience? You couldn’t find anyone with both those skills in the entire Navy, despite all the science and engineering that went into building the ships?

This all started with the Rosy the Riveter nonsense. We’re supposed to believe that entire experienced production line workers were simply drafted into combat while their jobs were taken over by people with no training, no experience, and having lifted something no heavier than a broom.

Blogger tublecane May 01, 2020 3:39 PM  

@64- They're also ruining pretty much everything else if it makes you feel better.

Blogger Pseudotsuga May 01, 2020 3:44 PM  

I have a set of heavily used 1st Edition AD&D books up on a bookshelf, back from high school days in the late 70s/early 80s. D&D was invented by, and for, literate wargamers. Arneson and Gygax were war gamers first and foremost, who became interested in putting war gaming into fantasy worlds. (TSR stood for Tactical Studies Rules, after all.) All the tables and rules were not really meant to dictate how the game was to be played, but rather for standardization so people could meet at conventions, and the like, and play together. Gygax indicates this in his foreword to the DM Guide.
Now? If the sessions exemplified above are not just rare examples, then the game has become a group therapy session. It's unclear what the 'rules' are even for, if the game has become merely a "let's sit around the table and tell stories about our damaged Mary Sue characters" gathering.

Blogger Scott May 01, 2020 5:02 PM  

I got into D&D to escape my high school SJWs and I quit D&D when the only people playing it were high school SJWs.

Blogger Nihil Dicit May 01, 2020 6:15 PM  

It's unclear what the 'rules' are even for, if the game has become merely a "let's sit around the table and tell stories about our damaged Mary Sue characters" gathering.

Every game is Mystery Date, every book a Harlequin romance, every song "Someday My Prince Will Come". The true female equivalents of wargaming are interior design and wedding planning, and those are mostly dominated by lambdas.

Blogger Rattlesnake_Kid May 01, 2020 6:58 PM  

@48 You are indeed being defensive. That gammas exhibit female behaviors does not make females gammas. The SSH does not apply to females.

@53 Ha!

@61 How could you not smell the convergence from a mile off? You did that to yourself.

Blogger Ledford Ledford May 01, 2020 6:59 PM  

Thanks for the D&D stories. Seems to be no fun anymore.
Glad to hear that tabletop wargaming is immune so far. Still play those. I think the barriers to entry for Advanced Squad Leader are sufficient, and will hold. Time will tell.

Blogger 5stonegames May 01, 2020 8:03 PM  

Scott wrote:I got into D&D to escape my high school SJWs and I quit D&D when the only people playing it were high school SJWs.



Yuck. It can heard to get a good compatible group, doubly so for D&D 5E while a good rules set is the "mainstream" game and attracts a wide audience.

In fact its arguably the only mainstream game since World of Darkness is rarely played anymore.

Too many normies are not good for oddball hobbies.

I'd suggest starting your own group and picking a rigorous rules set. GURPS is excellent and its lite version can be had for free.

Optionally if you like D&D OSR games like Adventurer Conqueror King have a different player base.

Blogger Ska_Boss May 01, 2020 8:40 PM  

Can confirm. I used to be into tabletop RPGs and miniature games and out of the dozen or so of my friends I played with, some of which for many years, only one of them I would consider beta or bravo and the rest were either delta/gamma/omega. I certainly don't miss the distinct aroma of body odor going into the back rooms of the game stores.

Blogger urthshu May 01, 2020 8:43 PM  

Glad to hear that tabletop wargaming is immune so far.

+++

"British Colonials wargaming is Imperialism!"

"Correct."

It's just a more upfront game, and deeply geek. SYW > SJW

Blogger Angantyr May 01, 2020 11:19 PM  

Damelon Brinn wrote:None of this has anything to do with old-school (OSR) D&D, where the PCs started as fairly blank slates and the world was deadly, so it was a big deal if one survived long enough to develop some character of his own. Then, grinding through dungeons was the *point* of the game, but now it's just a means to advance your character through the story.

Yes, characters were largely disposable - as it should be. Even the author of the original "Basic" D&D set, J. Eric Holmes, related in the rules that his highest level character made it to 4th level, made and unfortunate decision, and was turned into a pool of green slime...

Blogger John Rockwell May 01, 2020 11:49 PM  

Jab Burrwalky wrote:Converged. Rainbows everywhere and hints that next edition will remove essentially all distinction between races.

Elves are all transsexual. Published adventures all have several gay npc couples and bizzarre interracial families.

The rules in 5th are simplified, which I admit is nice in a lot of ways, but also feels very limiting and leaves a lot to be made up ad hoc.

Last group I played with, the girls were either coerced wives of other players, or an archSJW who lived with her "partner" and insisted on calling him and having him referred to as her "partner" not boyfriend or any other normal term. The other girl was a white girl with dreadlocks who looked like she would fit in in an antifa riot.

Dm'd one game for them at the request of an acquaintance. Then said "nope."

The guys were pretty chill Omega types. But clearly desperate for female attention with no idea of how to actually attract a psychologically stable girl, so they hung out with the freaks. Who of course, were romantically disinterested anyway.


Flawed from the outset is the lack of sexual dimorphism aside from aesthetics on gameplay.

No less a major contributing factor on how the character works alongside race. Which is only now being abolished to being purely aesthetic.

Blogger God Emperor Memes May 01, 2020 11:59 PM  

I didn't like the subtle rainbow agenda pushing in the first game; I really didn't like the gratuitous, virtue-signalling nonsense of the DLC; I won't be buying TLoU2. - If I wanted to see a mannish lesbian kissing a Jewess, I'm sure Netflix would have plenty of content for me.

Blogger God Emperor Memes May 02, 2020 12:46 AM  

I may be wrong but I think the reason why normal men (and women) find Gammas so irritating is that they basically act like bitchy, passive-aggressive women.

Blogger JonM May 02, 2020 4:31 AM  

This. A remnant of grognards who appeeciate the game aspect remains. We have discovered that actual rules are kryptonite to the entryists. Playing AD&D and hewing as close to the RAW as possible weeds out the drama queens like garlic to vampires.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants May 02, 2020 5:28 AM  

There ya go. Someone finally said it.

Blogger SciVo May 02, 2020 4:39 PM  

Well, there was one instance where it arguably worked. There is some anecdotal evidence (I don't think it was ever formally studied) that Vampire: The Masquerade actually helped geeks get laid. But even if true, the publisher and industry clearly failed to learn the lessons about what turns women on.

Blogger Akulkis May 02, 2020 5:39 PM  

"This all started with the Rosy the Riveter nonsense. We’re supposed to believe that entire experienced production line workers were simply drafted into combat while their jobs were taken over by people with no training, no experience, and having lifted something no heavier than a broom."

1: WATU headquarters never had "experienced" people.
What ASW knowledge that existed from WW1 was completely obsolete, as most WW1 U-boats didn't even have periscopes useful for attack. (They were just for a look-around before surfacing).

WATU was a provisional organization formed AFTER the war started. They were told to "assist" convoys entering and leaving by the western approaches of the British Isles, but given little guidance other than that. There was no directive to study ASW. That was the idea of the commander, who had all of these people underneath him (mostly WRENS), a very small budget office budget, and a very vague mission statement, and nominal command of far too few destroyers for their needs.

WATU studied ASW as concept because that's all they had the budget and equipment to do. As for where were the all of the men with sea experience? They were on the destroyers. DUH! But getting good at ASW tactics and theory doesn't require time at sea.

I suggest you read some books by those who directly participated in the Battle of the North Atlantic and submarine warfare elsewhere, especially those who captained Destroyers, Escort Destroyers, Corvettes and Frigates on North Atlantic convoy escort duty.... AND guys like McIntyre, who commanded a HUK (Hunter-Killer Group)


As I said before, Western Approaches was considered THE AUTHORITY by both the USN and the RN with respect to ASW.

"Radar systems overlap with both the open ocean and the convoy itself. Unless the U-Boat somehow slips into convoy traffic near the port and then simply rides with them on the surface until they hit deeper waters, it would not be possible for a U-Boat to avoid the radar overlap on the open ocean. Any U-Boat travelling on the surface would get picked up on the outer-edge of the radar envelope. It would not be possible for them to “slip-in” unless by accident or a lack of training and tactics on radar/sonar usage when the technology was first introduced."

You're so naive.

They didn't sneak in on the surface.

What part of SUBMARINE are you having difficulty understanding?

The usual method in the early 40's (before there was any effective radar, which is also when the U-boats were attacking on the surface, from inside the convoy) was for the sub captain to get his boat IN FRONT of the convoy... dive to about 100 feet and rig for silent running, going just a hair above the required forward movement to keep the sub down (a well-trimmed boat would have just a LEEETLE bit of positive bouyancy, at depth, the diving planes would be run put a little bit of down-thrust to counteract the positive bouyancy)... wait for the destroyers to pass and then rise up in the middle of them. The Germans ALWAYS did this at night, waiting for at least 2 hours after sunset, so that there wouldn't even be a glow on the horizon.

1/2

Blogger Akulkis May 02, 2020 5:39 PM  

2/2


Radar? By the time radar sets were plentiful AND SMALL enough to be used for ASW, they had already been chased out of the convoys and had resumed making attacks from the perimeter. Still, finding a dark-gray U-boat against a churning ocean was difficult, because it was way BELOW the horizon.

Lastly, active (pinging) sonar of that period worked VERY poorly against a sub on or near the surface, especially the Atlantic with its huge swells. Try finding a 30-foot sub, viewed from an angle when viewed against a background (the ocean surface) that effectively acts as a fun-house mirror, from ranges of 1000m or more.
Your only real chance under those conditions is to slow down, stop pinging, and use the sonor set passively. But you're a destroyer captain, and your job description includes keep WITH the convoy, which means no stopping UNLESS you've already got a confirmed target.


I heard about Western Approaches in my readings going back 40 years (and the books themselves date back to the early 1950's). I was incredibly surprised to find out it was the WRENS who were actively running the game and playing either side as needed, with whoever was playing for the German side constrained by whatever submarine behavior was being reported by the DD/DE/Corvette commanders.

At the command level, ASW is a purely intellectual pursuit. Before he lost his ability to communicate in a normal manner, even Stephen Hawking could become a good ASW tactician if he put his mind to it, as it's all about digesting the data (what little there is of it) coming in from both your own sensors teams and those of other ships.

Japan never got good at ASW because they didn't train their sonarmen very well, their sonar equipment was lacking in quality (being "defensive" the Japanese Navy put very little effort into any part of the sonar system, as they put all of their emphasis in "offense" -- thus leading to carriers that caught on fire from stem to stern way too easily, and only a miniscule portion of the crew even trained in fire and damage control).

Blogger Akulkis May 02, 2020 5:41 PM  

@ Jose Miguel

Contact me on http://vassalengine.org/ (my username akulkis) and/or http://www.boardgamegeek.com/ (same username)

Blogger Akulkis May 02, 2020 5:48 PM  

> "British Colonials wargaming is Imperialism!"
>
> "Correct."
>
> It's just a more upfront game, and deeply geek. SYW > SJW
>

Right up there with

"Most of the pieces at the start of this game are NAZIS!"

"You got a better suggestion for who invades the Soviet Union?"

Blogger Scott May 02, 2020 6:50 PM  

Sacrifices must be made.

Bring on the THAC0.

Blogger map May 03, 2020 12:32 AM  

Akulkis wrote:WATU studied ASW as concept because that's all they had the budget and equipment to do. As for where were the all of the men with sea experience? They were on the destroyers. DUH! But getting good at ASW tactics and theory doesn't require time at sea.

Look, I'll take your word for it on this subject. I did like the stuff on Hultgren Forest, after all.

The thing is, I am going by the youtube link you provided about Western Approaches. Presumably, you approved of the narrator's scholarship. I stopped after the first 15 minutes because his description of how u-boats were sneaking into the convoy made no sense and it could not possibly work: They avoided the sonar by riding on the surface and they avoided the radar by "blending" into the convoy traffic. The U-Boat's radar signal on the operator panel would blend in with the radar signal of every other surface ship. This sounds reasonable, except the U-boat would always be approaching from a distance. How did it avoid getting picked up on radar before it could "blend in" with the convoy traffic? Well, you say, it submerged, but then how did it avoid the sonar? Well, it rode the surface.

Sonar was developed in 1918. Radar was developed throughout the 20's and 30's and was fully deployed by 1940. This Western Approaches story simply makes no sense.

I'm sure there are plenty of glowing accounts, because this is just the kind of binding and morale-building propaganda I expect to see. After all, President Roosevelt himself assures me that Rosie the Riveter was real, and not a PR campaign. Doesn't make it true.

Blogger SirHamster May 03, 2020 12:01 PM  

map wrote:This sounds reasonable, except the U-boat would always be approaching from a distance. How did it avoid getting picked up on radar before it could "blend in" with the convoy traffic? Well, you say, it submerged, but then how did it avoid the sonar? Well, it rode the surface.
I don't have Akulki's expertise, but you clearly have a misconception about sensor technology.

Radar and sonar work in specific conditions. They have different ranges. Those are limitations that translate into blind spots.

The U-boat commanders would have studied those blind spots and developed tactics to exploit them, since they want to succeed and not die.

The description from the narrator is an accurate depiction of the limitations of each sensor type in practical scenarios.

It not making sense to you is an indicator of two different possibilities: it doesn't make sense because the narrator is wrong; or it doesn't make sense because you don't know enough to make sense of it.

You didn't know enough. Should have spent more time thinking about how you might be wrong.

map wrote:Sonar was developed in 1918. Radar was developed throughout the 20's and 30's and was fully deployed by 1940. This Western Approaches story simply makes no sense.
Akulki just provided the details that make the pieces fit. You're trying too hard to disqualify someone from your own limited understanding of the technologies.

Technology existing doesn't mean that it was used perfectly or fully optimized. There were equipment and usage improvements throughout the war. War improves technology because it provides very impactful negative feedback loops. "Oops, this tech sucks and gets our people killed, and now my boss is screaming at me."

Engineering is applied technology. The challenge of engineering is that you are always making trade-offs. Success in engineering is controlling the flaws and errors so that the product works well enough, most of the time.

Nothing works perfectly all the time.

Blogger Dire Badger May 04, 2020 4:37 AM  

The only reason I had any interest in women gamers was because I could sell gaming books to them.

My wife is a decent gamer, because I spent twenty years training her to be a decent gamer. we co-GM, she handles the character interaction and personality development, I handle the math, stories, character creation, mysteries, world-building, and hostility development. It works, because I know when to pull the plug.

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