ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2019 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Wednesday, May 06, 2020

The good guys

I have to admit, I really don’t quite know where to start with the “hurr durr Vox thinks China are the good guys” crowd.

Let’s start with observing that the very formulation contains a category error. Nations and governments are not people. Therefore, they do not have friends, only interests. Nations and governments are also not moral agents. Therefore, they cannot be “good guys”, or, for that matter, “bad guys”.

This is why I detest the inevitably disastrous attempts of my intellectual inferiors to summarize my thinking.

Let me be perfectly clear: I do not think China are "the good guys". I am aware that it is a nation ruled by the Communist Party. I am familiar with Chinese history and I am cognizant of the fact that its current rulers are persecuting Christians.

You may recall, that I picked up an East Asian Studies major to go with my Economics degree while I was at university.

However, unlike my critics, I am also aware that the Chinese governments persecutes Christians with considerably less vigor than it persecutes Tibetans, Uighurs, and corrupt government officials. In fact, it is only ranked 23rd on the list of religious persecution, and is not known to have executed a single Christian in 2020. This hardly ranks with Diocletian or North Korea.

Furthermore, who could honestly condemn a nationalist government that persecutes Christians, at least so-called Christians of the sort who are actively aiding and abetting the ongoing invasion of the West? I'd very much like to see a dedicated persecution of those Churchians myself.

Finally, I invite my critics to contemplate this conundrum: a socialist system based upon a planned economy does not work because it is unable to allocate resources effectively due to the lack of price signals, as per Mises and The Contradictions of Socialist Economies. The Chinese economy features both price signals and effective resource allocation, as well as considerable economic growth.

Discuss amongst yourselves.

Labels: , ,

104 Comments:

Blogger Tino May 06, 2020 10:41 AM  

If one encounters a paradox, a fundamental assumption is wrong.

The Chinese economy features both price signals and effective resource allocation, as well as considerable economic growth.

Perhaps none of the three above statements is true. The Chinese lie.
The Chinese have buildings that fall over. The Chinese have whole cities that are vacant.

Perhaps some of it is mirage?

Blogger Haus frau May 06, 2020 10:45 AM  

Other fun topics on this spectrum; Communism protected eastern European culture, the election of Hitler was a reasonable reaction to the abuses of the Weimar republic imposed on the German people, the afghans and Iradi's have perfectly justifiable reasons for killing American invaders even if they aren't Islamists. Binary thinking is a curse. It allows people to believe they would never do the bad things that other people do by completely dismissing the rational reasons the other group had for going down the path they took.

Blogger nyan May 06, 2020 10:46 AM  

>I really don't know quite where to start
>goes on to disembowel most potential formulations of the idea
>barely takes half a screen of text

This blog is such an asset to my continued psychological well-being. Thank you for your inimitable service.

Blogger R Webfoot May 06, 2020 10:53 AM  

"a socialist system based upon a planned economy does not work because it is unable to allocate resources effectively due to the lack of price signals, as per Mises and The Contradictions of Socialist Economies. The Chinese economy features both price signals and effective resource allocation, as well as considerable economic growth."

They have Special Economic Zones where people are encouraged to be more capitalist.
I figure the Chicoms of today are aware of the destructive effect of ideological purity. Even if they don't want to publically acknowledge it, they have been willing to patch some of the gaping holes in the ideology of their predecessors.

Blogger R Devere May 06, 2020 11:02 AM  

Chinese communists LIE??? "Perhaps some of it is mirage?"

Grigori Potemkin was unavailable for comment!

Slightly, OT Mr East Aian studied guy: What say you about the assertion the Chinese are culturally incapable of "innovation" since it involves risk-taking and potential failure, which inevitably means a loss of face for those who attempt to innovate!

Hence the great Chinese need to expropriate intellectual property however they can!

Blogger VD May 06, 2020 11:13 AM  

What say you about the assertion the Chinese are culturally incapable of "innovation" since it involves risk-taking and potential failure, which inevitably means a loss of face for those who attempt to innovate!

I say it's both irrelevant and wrong. The same was also said of the Koreans and the Japanese.

Chinese communists LIE?

Based on the evidence, it would appear they are lying about being communists or socialists.

Blogger Jay Will May 06, 2020 11:18 AM  

A tribe of people who are physically bonded and have trust, but also live under an imposed authoritarian socialist govt will have a significant advantage over a people who are divided by race, obsessed with the individual, but live in a free market.

The abstract self-made individual, who mocks the "socialists" while polishing his well earned shiny yacht. A man who "respects the hustle" (hustlers used to be executed) stands atop these other very human bonds which he has ignored.

Hence the deluded US billionaire who foreseeing apocalypse, instead of thinking I will need to bond and muck in, wonders by what magic he will keep his servants in line. You won't, they will kill you and take your shiny yacht.

Fake money built on real foundations, but those foundations are rotten and as the fake money evaporates the open sore of that rotten foundation will be revealed.

Quality players, who care about each other can make terrible systems and management look good. Mediocre players, players who dislike each other, will fail under any system u choose.

Blogger Crew May 06, 2020 11:27 AM  

However, unlike my critics, I am also aware that the Chinese governments persecutes Christians with considerably less vigor than it persecutes Tibetans, Uighurs, and corrupt government officials.

One could be forgiven for thinking there are different factions in the Chinese Government.

Blogger Dave May 06, 2020 11:27 AM  

It is analogous to many people's reaction to your statements on Breivik.

Blogger Dave May 06, 2020 11:32 AM  

Th Chinese have buildings that fall over.

Of course, no other culture, nation, or people have ever had a building fall over.

Blogger xevious2030 May 06, 2020 11:35 AM  

“The ‘hurr durr Vox thinks China are the good guys’ crowd.’ That would be the more inclined to binary crowd. A casual reading of the blog provides x<China<y, with qualifiers, not “China = good.” Speaking in generalities.

The conundrum, on “socialist system,” begins with a false assumption, and is probable to failure. It has always: “human material < system.” System plays a role, and it weighs outcome, but the human and the Spiritual elements weight it as well.

Blogger Justin Bailey May 06, 2020 11:37 AM  

I have no love for China but they are certainly smarter than the USA. Trump has done a good job if not reversing the rot then at least stopping or slowing it down, however as soon as he is out of office I fear it will rubber band back to how it was previously rather than build on his gains.

Blogger YehudaL May 06, 2020 11:37 AM  

New hurr durr for the tards:

You may recall, that I picked up an East Asian Studies major to go with my Economics degree while I was at university.

Hurr durr vox is a credentialist hurr durr

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 May 06, 2020 11:38 AM  

Usually, these accusations of siding with the "bad guys" come from people who probably aren't regular readers. I understand that you make mostly objective observations based on the factual information you have.

That's hard for a lot of people to grasp since the personal has become the political in nearly all sections of the political spectrum.

Blogger Section 8A May 06, 2020 11:38 AM  

"This is why I detest the inevitably disastrous attempts of my intellectual inferiors to summarize my thinking."

I love this kind of rhetoric.

Blogger areopagus May 06, 2020 11:39 AM  

"This is why I detest the inevitably disastrous attempts of my intellectual inferiors to summarize my thinking."

How dare those Peasants!

Blogger Balkan Yankee May 06, 2020 11:49 AM  

China's leaders tolerate Christians only to the extent Christians do not challenge the Communist Party's monopoly on political power. That Christians are persecuted less than other groups only indicates that the communist government perceives the Christian challenge to its authority to be correspondingly less than the threat posed by other groups. The regime's risk calculations could shift to the greater detriment of China's Christians at any time.

China no longer has considerable economic growth because its main export markets are in recession and it's non-export sector cannot compensate for this setback.

As for Churchian anti-nationalism in the West, point taken.

Blogger Tetro May 06, 2020 11:49 AM  

It also appears Western feminists are lying about being feminists, as they invite orcs into our lands to rape women and sow the seeds of future female oppression on a scale never seen before in the West.

It appears Western communists and socialists lie about being wedded to Marxian economic or social theory, as they put the knife in the working class with their open support of globalist corporations, mass immigration, and now a economic shutdown on account of the flu.

It would appear that Leftists never turn out to be what they claim to be.

It would appear the only consistent theme in all current manifestations Leftism is... hating Whitey.

Maybe it's the trannies who are the most honest of all the Leftists.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 06, 2020 11:55 AM  

"Nations and governments are not people. Therefore, they do not have friends, only interests. Nations and governments are also not moral agents. Therefore, they cannot be “good guys”, or, for that matter, “bad guys”."

First, I agree with your over-arcing point.

For the above two, on the other hand, a nation or government doesn't have a heart, feelings, or easily discerned moral decisions, yet still the people who comprise it do have those. If those people coincide enough on a particular, what results has little if any meaningful distinction from if the composite did have a friend or had for example systematically enacted evil.

Or would you say I'm just nit-picking vague things?

Everything else is great.

Blogger Akulkis May 06, 2020 12:05 PM  

"Quality players, who care about each other can make terrible systems and management look good."

This has been the secret to a lot of America's military success in recent decades.

At the tactical level, it's the enlisted men (volunteers) who make the difference. At the highest levels, it's the empty suits with Harvard and Yale degrees (ESPECIALLY Harvard) making decisions, which explains why and how we keep winning at the tactical level and getting destroyed at the strategic level.

Blogger Akulkis May 06, 2020 12:07 PM  

"Of course, no other culture, nation, or people have ever had a building fall over."

Modern Chinese buildings ROUTINELY fall over. Sometimes a few years after being built. Sometimes while still under construction.

NO other culture has such a record.

Blogger Akulkis May 06, 2020 12:09 PM  

"How dare those Peasants!"

Shut up, peasant!

Blogger VD May 06, 2020 12:14 PM  

China's leaders tolerate Christians only to the extent Christians do not challenge the Communist Party's monopoly on political power. That Christians are persecuted less than other groups only indicates that the communist government perceives the Christian challenge to its authority to be correspondingly less than the threat posed by other groups. The regime's risk calculations could shift to the greater detriment of China's Christians at any time.

I totally agree.

If those people coincide enough on a particular, what results has little if any meaningful distinction from if the composite did have a friend or had for example systematically enacted evil.

First, there is no way mathematically add up individual evil into a total. Second, I strongly suspect that the individual evil of the West's rulers considerably exceeds, perhaps even by an order of magnitude, the individual evil of the current Chinese elite.

The defining characteristic of Xi, in the West's intelligence reports of him, is that he personally hates corruption. He has been aggressively draining China's Swamp since he took power. Can that be said of ANY Western leader?

Blogger rognuald May 06, 2020 12:21 PM  

Chinese Communists are much more deserving of respect than SJW's, churchians, Progressives or NeoCons.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 06, 2020 12:24 PM  

VD wrote:Based on the evidence, it would appear they are lying about being communists or socialists.
I think you have said before that the CCP is the Chinese Confucian Party, rather than the Chinese Communist Party.

The CCP's internal power struggles and reactions really look a lot like a traditional Chinese dynasty, with the idealized memory of Mao and Marxism in the place of real, fallible emperors. With a fictional and therefore perfect figurehead, this dynasty might keep the mandate of heaven for a long time.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 06, 2020 12:30 PM  

VD wrote:The defining characteristic of Xi, in the West's intelligence reports of him, is that he personally hates corruption. He has been aggressively draining China's Swamp since he took power. Can that be said of ANY Western leader?
Maybe Trump, if we don't insist on ``aggressively,'' or on ``draining?'' He has certainly made statements about drainage that the Swamp took as credible threats.

Blogger Jay Will May 06, 2020 12:32 PM  

The Chinese are a threat to the idea that America is built on an idea. They cannot beat us for we are capitalists and they are communists. Your values and culture, its symbols and narratives, should be things that you could cry out prior to enter the battle. There is nothing Hayek ever said or represented in his life that you could say that of, and nothing in any economic book.

Freedom is a thing, but it isn't the economic freedom to sell snake oil to morons, to tell lies because of muh free speech, its that freedom inside you, in your heart and in your soul which fills you up and make's life joyous. To such an extent that men will 100x their potential and die in fight so they are reborn in the stories their great grand children tell. Modern life suppresses it but its there, and it is ready to burst.

The reality is if you had to pick a nation to select people from to weather the storm and ride the tsunami out into the new sun, you would pick Americans, not the Chinese drones. Too much of Europe are slaves, they welcome the lockdown and love the lie. They are glad that the lie has been given to them so they don't have to feel like cowards.

The coronavirus is a challenge to those who know what freedom is, and a beckoning to the weak and the frail. Come hear my child, into my arms, with death comes peace.

Stay home. Save the NHS. Save lives. Inspiring! Run, hide and tell. Fucking die you faggots.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( no need to be racist, Ratchets can Karen better than anybody ) May 06, 2020 12:32 PM  

1. Tino May 06, 2020 10:41 AM
Perhaps none of the three above statements is true.


the "economic growth" part certainly IS True, 3rd world economies don't build 20 lane divided highways AND FILL THEM WITH CARS ( you notice that the Nork highways are empty ) such that they have traffic jams without economic activity.

also, the Chinks had damn well better be having some financial success, the US and Euro zone are outsourcing all of their manufacturing to China ... and we're paying them for the privilege.

it would require a singularly inept administration in order to fail to make progress for its people in such a situation.




10. Dave May 06, 2020 11:32 AM
Of course, no other culture, nation, or people have ever had a building fall over.



well, i mean, the jet fuel kind of helped.


22. VD May 06, 2020 12:14 PM
First, there is no way mathematically add up individual evil into a total.



but Muh Six Meeeelions!

Blogger Balkan Yankee May 06, 2020 12:35 PM  

@22: Many U.S. elites admire China's systems of surveillance, suppression, and control and have already started to impose them courtesy of the Coronavirus lockdown. ChiCom envy is particularly strong among establishment Democrats and Silicon Valley progressives. None dare call it evil envy!

Blogger Dan Karelian May 06, 2020 12:41 PM  

The nations will be judged. They must be subjected to moral ontology as a separate category from the person, for the Bible to hold true.
Therefore the criterion is different than that concerning the individual person, but to claim that a nation lacks moral agency is not possible, according to the Christian world view.
An Aristotelian might, and certainly a nominalist would assert that, under their metaphysical presuppositons.

As for innovation, the Chinese as a whole, observably do not have the innovative human capital that Japan has, at least to some extent, or that phenotype is likely to ever exist in sub-sections of the population like Taiwan.
A fractured Mandate might be the desirable form of China for such 'innovation' to occur long term. Then again perhaps they have simply selected traits like curiosity, disagreeableness and high testosterone out of the gene pool to such a degree that it wouldn't matter anyway.

Blogger Sean May 06, 2020 12:42 PM  

Even though China persecutes Christians, the same thing can't be said in reverse about Western nations. Yeah, Christians are not burnt at the stake or put in prison, but the persecution is in a different form.

That said, I do not particularly like China, but then again, I dislike alot of things happening in Western societies at the moment.

Blogger gunner451 May 06, 2020 12:43 PM  

Martin Armstrong has a similar opinion of China based on his dealings with the people running the financial parts of the CCP that they will come to dominate the world economy going into this century. I'm not really sure about that myself based on some of the characteristics of the mainland Chinese which seems to be hopelessly warped my Mao's great leap forward. The fact that they have no culture of taking pride in their workmanship but rather take pride in being able to rip off anyone that deals with them (including themselves) seems to be a fatal flaw that will hold them back.

That plus if history can be any guide the Chinese are not very good when it comes to war in that they are brave when they think that they have the advantage/greater numbers but cowards when they don't. This was really on display when the Japanese invaded and was what allowed Europe and the US to dominate them in the 19th to early 20th centuries.

That said they have more of a capitalistic system than the US and have a near homogeneous population in contrast to our hopeless diversity. That plus they have not let women dominate public policy which I think is one of the primary failures of the West. Given that I believe that China will be around long after the US has collapsed into chaos but possibly not in a dominate position.

Blogger Sam May 06, 2020 12:44 PM  

In governance, good governments are stationary bandits, bad ones are mobile bandits. China's government still has a ways to go, but it is clearly going down the stationary path.

As for communism, I believe they kept the name for legacy reason and to keep factions from taking it up as a standard; similar to how the US calls itself a democracy.

Blogger Renbo May 06, 2020 12:47 PM  

One thought that comes to mind is based on Michael Hudson's explanations of Marx's rarely read texts on capital and the dangers of a financial economy. That is that the only power capable of reigning in central bank and usury evils are powerful governments. The American answer of decentralization works in theory but doesn't last due to mans desire for power and powers corruption. So perhaps the Chinese system and its ability to control its national bank is the lesson we can learn from the Chinese flavor of quasi communism?

Blogger Stilicho May 06, 2020 12:47 PM  

Chicoms are socialist in the broad sense, but they've been changing their preferred flavor from hard command/control communism to crony socialism/fascism for decades now.

Meanwhile, America has been heading towards a similar crony socialism itself. There's less of the direct interference in the US, but who can deny that the big business-govt alliance along with the indirect control by the Fed-bankster consortium achieves nearly the same level of control.

We are not all so much socialists now as we are all mercantilists. In addition to being somewhere on the spectrum from rivals to sworn enemies.

Blogger SciVo May 06, 2020 1:02 PM  

1. I have long thought that China has more of a fascist economy, with socialism by regulation rather than ownership. I am unwilling to accept Mises as the final word because one point of contention between Hitler and Stalin was over who was the best and truest socialist, so any definition of socialism that excludes Nazi Germany is necessarily taking the Soviet side in that argument (rather than the American side: you're both right, you're both dirty evil socialists).

2. A remedial lesson for the historically ignorant: "nation-state" is not redundant.

Nation = People
Country = Land
State = Gov't

The nation-state is the best construction for lasting peace because it gives a People self-rule, where they are not being oppressively burdened with unnatural requirements from an alien culture. I sometimes like to sit and ponder what kind of mentality it must take to recast that as "ethno-nationalism" (redundant) and then invert the truth and claim that it's the cause of war.

Anyway, the American gov't despises unhyphenated Americans and has been waging demographic war on us for well over half a century. We do not have a nation-state, so it is the height of absurdity to imagine that American nationalism would involve patriotic loyalty to leaders that hate us.

Blogger The Other Donald May 06, 2020 1:05 PM  

@21 Akulkis,

Cross reference "Chinese fire drill"

Blogger Riejun May 06, 2020 1:06 PM  

For me, it helps in understanding politics to remember a few basic assumptions:

- the elite, as a whole, want to maintain power
- the elite will do what they must to maintain power
- culture, history, societal influence, etc... will provide the framework for the elite to remain in power
- for the elite, pride, revenge and their sense of superiority is always at play

Also keep in mind the U.S.military's (I think it started there, at least this is where I learned it) idea for "instruments of national power": Diplomacy, Information (Intelligence), Military, Economic: DIME.

With those and other things in mind, think through the five (maybe only four) primary powers: China, Russia, EU, US (cabal), US (nationalists). As many have said here and other places, there isn't just one "cabal", but for simplicity we keep the cabal as a monolithic force here. In each of these power blocks, the elite want to maintain power.

In the below, please assume when I say a country name, I mean the elites of that country.

China: with a history of multiple bloody civil wars, revolutions, and foreign control, the elite are currently using primarily economic means/power to keep their people in line and also keep the foreign devil at bay. China needs markets to maintain their economic growing, to keep their people content, etc... China doesn't "just" want to make things, as that can easily go away, so they need to innovate/create, and also build a network of client states/trading partners... plus become more independent in energy and food. But all of this is to keep the elite in power.

Russia: I am not as familiar with Russia, but "the elite want to maintain control". Plus there is the matter of revenge against the West, and a history of bloody civil wars, revolutions AND empire (Russian or USSR).

EU: probably the most cabal of the cabal... the elite want power by any means. They don't want wars, revolutions, etc... and will happily let their native white serfs die off to be replaced by brown serfs with a white(ish) overseer class...

US (cabal): see EU...

US (nationalist): Trump isn't a real nationalist... he's a CIVNAT. but he's what we got to work with for now until Civil War 2 turns hot.

Insert your other country, but the elite want to maintain control and will do what they must to achieve this goal. Occasionally, the serfs revolt, but the elite always come back...

Blogger Salt May 06, 2020 1:08 PM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:Maybe Trump, if we don't insist on ``aggressively,'' or on ``draining?'' He has certainly made statements about drainage that the Swamp took as credible threats.

Xi isn't hamstrung in the same way Trump is with a Congress like ours.

Blogger Silly but True May 06, 2020 1:15 PM  

“In fact, it is only ranked 23rd on the list of religious persecution, and is not known to have executed a single Christian in 2020. This hardly ranks with Diocletian or North Korea.” [*Note]

([*Note] Or the U.S.)

Blogger Bernard Korzeniewicz May 06, 2020 1:15 PM  

Just 2 cents: of course CCP is not ready to change the name and fear/loathe the West influence. Those guys remember the bloodiest war of the humanity, the Chinese Civil War 1911-49, fought because their ancestors had let in the White devils.
The internal stability is the name of the game for Xi.

Blogger Coyotewise May 06, 2020 1:16 PM  

How dare you, SIR?

This was a great post after my eyes pulled a muscle rolling so hard while reading the Boomer responses to the Unz link. I've noticed the comments on this one are of different level. Thank you to all of you.

Also, when it comes to China and Christianity, not only is Churchianity an issue. They have had their share of significant disruptions waving a christian banner. Like the time Jesus Christ's brother lead a massive rebellion. https://infogalactic.com/info/Taiping_Heavenly_Kingdom

Blogger Crush Limbraw May 06, 2020 1:22 PM  

China, Russia, Iran, Israel, America etc are all perceived by us based on our Ingrained Presuppositions and Binary Thinking + Ignorance which = Human Condition Lacking Knowledge, Understanding - and even of God!

Blogger boogeyman May 06, 2020 1:33 PM  

Who are the "bad guys?" Chinese communists are the bad guys, and our deep state, and everyone elses deep state, and SJWs, and Churchians, and the media, and our own politicians, and multinational corporations, and feminists, and Hollywood, ... and, and, and. Embrace it's mighty power.

For myself, I pretty much assume everyone and everything is either criminally incompetent or actively trying to screw you over until they can prove otherwise. Even then they need to be watched for backsliding.

Blogger Rattlesnake_Kid May 06, 2020 1:36 PM  

Finally, I invite my critics to contemplate this conundrum: a socialist system based upon a planned economy does not work because it is unable to allocate resources effectively due to the lack of price signals, as per Mises and The Contradictions of Socialist Economies. The Chinese economy features both price signals and effective resource allocation, as well as considerable economic growth.

The one thing that I wonder about the Chinese, and Soviet, economy is how it would have worked without the import of industry from the West on a massive scale. Everyone knows about this as regards China, but FDR's War Production Board exported a mind boggling amount of industry to the Soviet Union. And that instance of industrial transfer we only know about because one man in an observatory position took note. I find it dubious that it was a one-off gravy train. While reading about the inner details of the Soviet economy is absurd comedy, having massive shipments of free industrial goods lowers the difficulty level quite a bit. China's economy clearly isn't the farce that the Soviets was, but they didn't build their industrial foundation either.

Blogger Wanderor May 06, 2020 1:37 PM  

How difficult is it from a bureaucratic standpoint to start and maintain a business in China provided that:

- You don't piss off the CCP
- You are willing to play ball with the CCP if they decide you are valuable to them like Zoom.

Anyone have experience with starting a business or expanding into China?

Blogger VD May 06, 2020 1:46 PM  

The reality is if you had to pick a nation to select people from to weather the storm and ride the tsunami out into the new sun, you would pick Americans, not the Chinese drones.

Which Americans, the real ones who control nothing or their Fake American rulers?

Blogger ZhukovG May 06, 2020 2:02 PM  

The reality is if you had to pick a nation to select people from to weather the storm and ride the tsunami out into the new sun, you would pick Americans, not the Chinese drones.

Which Americans, the real ones who control nothing or their Fake American rulers?

@VD: Actually, I think I would go with the Europeans. The European Nations will rise again, no matter how hard they try to avoid it. Like Tolkien's Ents, they are going to awaken and find that they are strong.

Blogger JACIII May 06, 2020 2:06 PM  

Which Americans, the real ones who control nothing or their Fake American rulers?

This. The threat vector is not as much from China as it is through China.
Whether that will work out for the interested party remains to be seen, for they will inevitable become troublesome to the Chinese. And the Chinese have been playing the long game longer than the tribe, with more success, while holding territory, and avoiding serially instigating attempts to exterminate them.

Blogger Eagle Rock May 06, 2020 2:07 PM  

I think this analysis is interesting:
"DEVIN STEWART: What are Chinese friends saying to your notion that it is becoming a fascist state?

JOSHUA EISENMAN: Like I said, in the past, people would say, "No, no, no, you don't understand," but more and more people are willing to accept that socialism with Chinese characteristics is actually National Socialism.

DEVIN STEWART: Including Chinese people?

JOSHUA EISENMAN: Including Chinese people. And in Chinese, the word for National Socialism is guójiā shèhuì zhǔyì, but the word for statism is guójiā zhǔyì, and so people have been using guójiā zhǔyì, statism, saying National Socialism makes them bristle for a variety of reasons. You think of the Anti-Japanese War and a variety of different historical instances. In fact, they had a few years ago a parade, the anti-fascist parade with goose-stepping soldiers, which was ironic.

But what's going on now is that people are not pushing back like they used to. They used to say, "Josh, you're taking it too far with that." But now people are saying, "Actually, you know what? That's a pretty good description." They're not saying it's bad—and part of what I'm doing here, and I want to be clear about it, is that I'm not being judgmental. I'm not saying National Socialism is inherently bad, although I personally am a liberal, so I don't like it.

But some people, including people like Mussolini, argued—sometimes convincingly—that fascism was better than liberal democracy, that it was superior, that it could achieve things that liberal democracy simply couldn't because liberal democracy would be mired in debate all the time, whereas the fascists could get things done. And the Chinese government most definitely gets things done. So there are many people out there who might not want to say China is National Socialist, but they are willing to say the Chinese system is better and gets things done.

That is not the point I'm making, but I want to say here that that is simply because I hold liberal values. But if somebody does not hold liberal values—and there are millions and billions of people who do not—then they might not see the fact that China is a National Socialist country in a bad way. In fact, they might say it's a good thing.

But I want to say this without overlaying my liberal-value bias on top of this and say it more as an observer looking at the color of a desk or something and say, "This is what I see that it is."

So most people describe the U.S.-China relationship, in China especially, and in the United States as well, in terms of nation-states, the United States versus China, and then they talk about things like the Thucydides’s Trap and international relations theory. [Editor's note: For more on this, check out Stewart's recent interview with Graham Allison, who wrote a book on this theory in regard to the U.S. and China.] But I think that actually miscategorizes the nature of the relationship. What we have—and what we've had for years—has been a marriage of elites in Beijing and to some degree Shanghai, I suppose, with elites in New York and in Washington. One professor, when I was there at a top university, told me that this is a marriage, particularly with Wall Street.

So the idea is that the elites come together and essentially exploit the working people of China and steal the jobs of the working people of the United States. And then it is basically balled up and wrapped up as a nationalist conflict. So what is essentially a classist issue, a Marxist issue, a struggle between the different strata of society—the elites versus the rest of society—is actually intentionally disguised as a national struggle between two nation-states.
https://www.carnegiecouncil.org/studio/multimedia/20170810-joshua-eisenman-chinese-national-socialism

Blogger Gallant May 06, 2020 2:31 PM  

Remember what I thought when talking to an Iranian expat, how he 'hated the regime' for this and that. Didn't fully convey; but I did think - their civilization has someone 'at the wheel'. Their plan involves a future with Persians and their culture in it. Some of the perceived harshness could be necessary 'tough love'. They may or may not be doing a good job at it; but Persians are ruled by Persians. And their rulers aren't there to help anyone else.

Could probably say similar things about the Chinese government:

1. They're Chinese people working for a future with Chinese people in it
2. What's good for them or their people may not be good for me, and that's not the Chinese government's concern


I think we should consider the Chinese government on these terms. And also, that people in the west don't live under something analogous that can be easily compared, it's 'apples and oranges'.

Blogger map May 06, 2020 2:32 PM  

The thing is, people will choose good socialism over bad capitalism any day. This is actually from Jude Wanniski:

"It is only when capitalism fails that people and nations resort to alternative forms of political economy. A socialist system that is working well is one that is fully deploying the nation's resources through a central plan that has the approval of the people. It would be superior to a capitalist system that is working so poorly that its adherents must find excuses for mass unemployment, widely diverging income classes, and deepening social pathologies. The price paid for any form of socialism is the loss of some degree of individual freedom, but when the only alternative is bad capitalism of the type described, a people willingly pay that price. In that sense, the capitalism that defeated Soviet socialism in the Cold War did not necessarily end the competition between systems. At least theoretically, we might imagine a new outbreak of stagflation here that causes an explosion of social pathologies and a sharp decline in living standards. At the same time, we can imagine a reconstituted Russian socialism, one that permits more market signals and more personal freedoms than the variety that collapsed. This could bring about a new competition having a different outcome. Good capitalism, though, is superior to socialism at its best. I think we know enough to make capitalism function the way it should, with an economy of labor, ever-increasing living standards for ordinary people, and increased personal freedom as well. The crisis in capitalism exists because the Ruling Class does not like or want the changes that we have proposed for the past 20 years, and has no alternative solution -other than a managed economy. What is it that capitalism must do to perform to its ideal?

What must any system accomplish? At the core, it must provide a method by which its smallest constituent unit, a household, can save the surplus of its day's work for the day when it cannot work. This is because the highest priority of any unit of political economy is self-survival. The risks to survival are reduced by agreements among separate units to pool their resources. This enables those with a temporary surplus to share with those in temporary deficit. The family unit itself is such a system, which enables the young to draw upon the productive resources of their parents, returning the resources when their parents are too old to be productive. Civilization began with speech that enabled neighboring families and neighboring clans to contract with each other through verbal lOUs. "Money," as a palpable medium of exchange, soon followed as an extended form of commercial speech...."

Blogger map May 06, 2020 2:32 PM  

(continued)

And he goes on...

"It is when a nation's political system fails its economic system - when the market mechanism must refuse to finance unemployed resources because of a persistent negative ROI - that the masses have little choice but to turn to socialism. The body politic will permit the capitalist ruling class some reasonable margin for error, but it cannot permit either mass unemployment or a persistent decline in living standards that threaten the basic family unit. As they did in the 1930s, ordinary people will use the democratic political system to force socialist policies into play when capitalism fails. The social safety net we now have is the refined product of the American electorate of the 1930s. Without having the benefit of a democratic political system, the people of Russia in 1917 produced a much less refined safety net."

What he have in failures of the market mechanism is chronic failures in government, those failures that Trump is trying to correct.

A key point to understanding Trump is that he is not an austerity junkie. He is fully understand the importance of economic growth and generating wealth and the value of, say, lowering capital gains taxes and restricting immigration and free trade to generate that wealth. At the same time, Trump knows that tax revenues collected by the government can be used to provide truly public goods. The same mechanism motivates Xi in China.

Remember, people cannot tolerate chronic mass unemployment or reductions in the standard of living that threaten the family unit. Kids won't tolerate being unable to reproduce the milestones of their parents for long. Both Trump and Xi know how to address this for their people in their own respective ways.

Blogger History Diver May 06, 2020 2:44 PM  

The Chinese may not be the most innovative people on the planet but in most cases their pragmatism make up for it AND contrary to popular belief their government is not out to get them. It is very easy to run small and medium sized businesses in China compared to the west. You can setup a business in a couple of days and start moving big money around with no questions asked or taxes charged.

Blogger rondolf May 06, 2020 2:46 PM  

The Chinese govt. probably persecutes Christians less severely than the U.S govt has persecuted White nationalists. And note how the U.S is no longer a Christian country. Persecution here will not be far behind.

Blogger steb May 06, 2020 2:48 PM  

The movie version of the Da Vinci code was pulled from cinemas in China after christian groups complained that it was blasphemous. Here in the west movies only get banned for being orthodox. They are far more tolerant of the public practise of faith. The problem is that they are far more draconian in their treatment of anyone who steps over the line. When we say that the west is free, we really mean that its punishments are more feeble. You lose your job, not your life.

Blogger Skyler the Weird May 06, 2020 3:00 PM  

The West is approaching it's post cold war collapse like the Soviet Bloc went thru. Poor Bush's handlers wouldn't let him bring the wild geese home and leave the World alone.

Blogger Katechon May 06, 2020 3:01 PM  

>Nations and governments are also not moral agents. Therefore, they cannot be “good guys”, or, for that matter, “bad guys”.
But government could be governed according to reason, and reason computes morality. As morality is a form of knowledge.

Blogger Oswald May 06, 2020 3:24 PM  

So the deep state spent three years trying to link Trump to the Russians with the ultimate purpose of getting rid of Trump and perhaps starting a war with Russia. Their efforts on that front failed. The deep state appears to be behind the Wuhan virus and therefore it would appear to be another attempt to get rid of Trump and perhaps start a war with China.

My question: Why did the deep state switch its efforts from Russia to China? Is China an easier target? Are they playing on the fact that the Chinese don't look like us as oppose to the Russians and therefore American's are more likely to support a war with China. Is it something entirely different? Maybe, they need to weaken China's economy in order to destroy Trump.

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelpia May 06, 2020 3:42 PM  

VD wrote:
Let me be perfectly clear: I do not think China are "the good guys"

But you do kinda like/admire them -- though not without reason.

Here's the thing about China and the Chinese. When it's bad, it's REALLY bad.

Their political upheavals have been bad, really bad. Lots and lots of people die.

Somehow, some way, they get invaded. Whether it's the Mongols, then the Western Imperialists, then the Japanese.

And when they get invaded, it's not like when France has gotten invaded, where it's pretty much soldiers that have been killed. Nope, the invasions by their enemies have been bad, really bad, as vast oceans of people have been dispensed with.

Shit, even their natural disasters -- floods, earthquakes -- are monumentally bad, really bad. Our hurricanes and tornadoes are nothin' compared to their catastrophes.

There is something about China and the Chinese that badness really attracts.

Yeah, yeah -- I get it, when you're a civilization/ethnic group around for a few thousand years, bad stuff is bound to happen. But somehow they find a scale, and create/experience a level of badness, that is just astonishing.

It gets one to thinking that Karma is real.

Meanwhile, not only do they take it, they love to dish it out. They'd love to absorb Tibet and other regions of China the same way the Han have subsumed inner Mongolia. Some day they might even duke it out with India, as they have in the past.

You think they are building artificial islands in the South China see to protect Vietnam (which, if you recall, they have also invaded from time to time)? If the we hadn't beaten the Japanese and kept our asses in the region this past half century, Taiwan would have been "annexed" -- read, "invaded and subjugated" -- long ago. In the meantime, Hong Kong is a trial run.

We should think of the Chinese as really bad neighbors who are obviously pretty smart, and outwardly successful, and ostensibly hard working (though cheating is perfectly OK), and the kids are cute with their toy violins, but they always want to quarrel with you even when they start off with that phony half smile.

And their house looks OK, but the wiring is bad, and the gas pipe is slightly cracked, and one day while they're stir-frying or brewing up some bat soup on the stupidly cheap electric range that short circuits, their house is going to explode and take you with it.

Blogger map May 06, 2020 3:47 PM  

What people forget is that fascism is not an economic argument against either the bad capitalism of the Wiemar Republic or the Communism of the Soviet Bolsheviks. Fascism was a political argument against both. To the Capitalists, it asked why the nation suffers unemployment and poverty to pay foreigners and to the Bolsheviks, it asks why must German workers share their wealth with Polish workers? Fascism is, simply, a blend of socialism and capitalism directed toward parochial ends, and not internationalist ends, like communism and usury.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 06, 2020 3:59 PM  

KPKinSunnyPhiladelpia wrote:And their house looks OK, but the wiring is bad, and the gas pipe is slightly cracked, ...
I suspect that's an accurate description of the housing stock there, and of their infrastructure in general. It certainly fits Taiwan fairly well.

Blogger Lance E May 06, 2020 4:07 PM  

The CPC has as much to do with Communism as the DPRK does with Democracy, and the US Conservative movement does with Conservation. It's just a name, and is more about historical continuity and branding than it is about ideology.

China may be despotic in parts, but really seems to be governed more like the British empire circa 1700 than Russia circa 1920.

Blogger tuberman May 06, 2020 4:19 PM  

All I can say is there are certain individuals in the USA Deep State that contain the strongest communication ties with the Chinese Deep State elite. Diane Feinstein and her connections come to mind. Keep an eye on what happens with her in the next few weeks and months.

Blogger Crew May 06, 2020 4:34 PM  

The drumbeat of accusations against China is increasing!

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/belgium-accuses-china-bio-espionage

They really want a war.

Blogger doctrev May 06, 2020 5:06 PM  

KPKinSunnyPhiladelpia wrote:VD wrote:

Let me be perfectly clear: I do not think China are "the good guys"

Here's the thing about China and the Chinese. When it's bad, it's REALLY bad.

Their political upheavals have been bad, really bad. Lots and lots of people die.

Somehow, some way, they get invaded. Whether it's the Mongols, then the Western Imperialists, then the Japanese.

And when they get invaded, it's not like when France has gotten invaded, where it's pretty much soldiers that have been killed. Nope, the invasions by their enemies have been bad, really bad, as vast oceans of people have been dispensed with.

There is something about China and the Chinese that badness really attracts.

Yeah, yeah -- I get it, when you're a civilization/ethnic group around for a few thousand years, bad stuff is bound to happen. But somehow they find a scale, and create/experience a level of badness, that is just astonishing.

It gets one to thinking that Karma is real.



At some point over the next twenty years, what's going to happen in America will make all the sins of Chinese rebellions look like a pleasant stroll down the beach. Actually, given that the "Christian Republic" of America has drag queen storytime for kids, bans Mass for the duration of the coronavirus crisis (which will be dragged out forever) and openly allows Christ killers in the ACLU to aggressively emasculate society, the USA has zero credibility to claim China persecutes anyone. Facebook and Twitter alone are a far more arbitrary and cruel censorship regime than anything Chinese social credit has to offer. At least the Chinese probably won't fire you based on baizou nonsense that was commonplace even five years ago.

Look at the issue of masks alone. The USA spent months declaring that masks are useless and that you shouldn't buy them. SCMP has been calling that nonsense ever since. If you had to decide which media had a basic standard of sanity, and which was filled with treacherous mongloids who hate the American people, you'd lose betting that China was more evil.

Blogger rumpole5 May 06, 2020 5:18 PM  

It is hard to believe that we have allowed ourselves to become reliant on any other nation for essential resources, machinery, pharmaceuticals, or anything else. It is time to follow the advice of our constitutional presidential founder and “steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world.” We need high tariffs and an end to further immigration. This applies to China, India, and all other alien peoples.

Blogger Peter May 06, 2020 5:27 PM  

Its really the oriental mind/culture that is the problem ... but that's not the main focus here. Its not that VD loves China or Russia...its that he hates the USA. Whether he knows it or not, VD has anger with the US and any issue is seen through these glasses. His experience with government sanctioned law enforcement and how they harassed his family and contributed to his move to Italy (good wine, soccer and culture not withstand) gives him this right. I am tired of this BS that we (the USA) are a great, shining example of freedom on the hill and the rest of the world is evil; we might be the winners (and that's only depends on how you count) but that doesn't make us the God righteous. Feels more like we are Babylon the Great.

Blogger ZhukovG May 06, 2020 5:29 PM  

Is that what the Deep State really wants? World War III?

Pandemic to create a crisis. Blame the 'Yellow Peril'.

Nothing like a global war to cover a multitude of economic sins.

Well, I guess it'll give some mediocre Country/Western talent fodder for some top 10's.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants May 06, 2020 5:32 PM  

This is why I read this blog.

Blogger Peter May 06, 2020 5:33 PM  

And its not that VD hates the US in a simple, treason fashion ...; its the government, law enforcement, its the education system, its the culture, its the US form of capitalism.... You cant be intelligent and happy at the same time.. If you have have eyes, and can see, and if you half a brain, and you cant think you should be anger because what we got is not what we should have, the great potential has been wasted, good men driven from leadership and what we have been left with is lacking in every way.

Blogger tuberman May 06, 2020 5:41 PM  

65. Crew

There won't be a war, as neither Xi nor Trump want's one, and others will not force them into one.

Blogger Doktor Jeep May 06, 2020 5:56 PM  

War with China.
So years from now when three year old boys are getting sex changes and turned onto cat girls for old gay men before being sacrificed to Moloch, we can proudly say "well at least they are not speaking Chinese!".

Blogger MaskettaMan May 06, 2020 6:42 PM  

The economic system may not work, but any country with such a massive population can swing its weight around regardless of economic system. It's the huge population that I'm afraid of. But yeah, I agree on all other points.

Blogger onejohn512 May 06, 2020 6:43 PM  

Hi Vox great to see the writings on the evils of usury. Thank you again for all the great work you and your friends do here.
A CCP General doesn't want you to see this:
CCP wants to take what's yours and will kill 100s of millions without qualms.
The Secret Speech of General Chi Haotian
https://jrnyquist.blog/2019/09/11/the-secret-speech-of-general-chi-haotian/

Blogger Nihil Dicit May 06, 2020 6:46 PM  

Nations and governments are not people. Therefore, they do not have friends, only interests.

You need to understand nothing more than this. Even the word "ally" is a stretch, at best a marriage of convenience, at worst the sort of cynical self-interest demonstrated by the US's current "allies".

Blogger Storm Rhode May 06, 2020 6:55 PM  

My guess is the ((( move))) to China failed so they need an economic plan B. World war 2 type economic reset. Knock China out via covid or war so the (((US))) is still top dog. In the meantime it's about tightening control over the working poor.

Blogger Storm Rhode May 06, 2020 6:58 PM  

China has fewer prisoners than the US. It has execution vans and uncooperative organ donor prisoners.

Blogger Unknown May 06, 2020 7:12 PM  

The question is why does the chinese government persecute and repress these ethnic and religious minorities ?

I doubt it has anything to do with price signals or resource allocation

Reducing analysis to the mere economic misses the essential. What is the purpose of life and nation. The chinese have a fear of the 'other', the foreigner the subversive, the person who steps out of line. As with any totalitarian system, they want to rule over automatons. They cannot tolerate people having other allegiances, to family, friends or even God.

Blogger Nate May 06, 2020 7:41 PM  

China's economy appears to have growth the same way that the US economy appeared to have growth between 1990 and 2006.

The effect of this crisis on the American economy is going to be amazing. It is going to mean the rise of economic nationalism. It's light a giant light has been shined on the faults of the efficiency and growth at all cost mindset that has plagued us.

China survived and thrived because the world has been explicitly helping them. That stops now. It's time for the bug people to go back to the rice fields.

Blogger Akulkis May 06, 2020 7:47 PM  

"There is something about China and the Chinese that badness really attracts."

They play with demons.

So or course, when bad things happen to China, it's the worst imaginable.

Blogger lynnjynh9315 May 06, 2020 8:41 PM  

"My intellectual inferiors" is cringey.

As for China, they're enemies of the Western nations. I don't like them. That said, your theory that it's Churchians they're persecuting is interesting. Have you elaborated on that elsewhere?

Blogger eclecticmn May 06, 2020 9:01 PM  

32. gunner451May 06, 2020 12:43 PM
The fact that they have no culture of taking pride in their workmanship but rather take pride in being able to rip off anyone that deals with them (including themselves) seems to be a fatal flaw that will hold them back


After watching the ADVChina guys a lot that is one generalization I came away with. They CAN do high quality work if they have to, and someone is looking. They make high quality skyscrapers in record time and iPhones. They also make buildings that fall down and poisoned baby formula.

Laowhy886, SerpentZA, ADVChina, and ADV Podcast have informed my view of China with 100s of examples and anecdotes. I cannot fit their culture and govt into a flowchart.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 06, 2020 9:25 PM  

Nate wrote:The effect of this crisis on the American economy is going to be amazing. It is going to mean the rise of economic nationalism. It's light a giant light has been shined on the faults of the efficiency and growth at all cost mindset that has plagued us.
I certainly pray you're right.

Blogger eclecticmn May 06, 2020 9:43 PM  

The book that helped me understand China better was The Party (McGregor), 2010. Since that book was written IMO the govt has become more repressive toward the Chinese people than before and more xenophobic. The ADVChina guys say that the govt can turn xenophobia on and off in the populace like a light switch. AT least the CCP has not tried to destroy the family.

Anyone who calls China a Communist Dictatorship has lost my respect. They are neither communist nor a dictatorship. They have a form of democracy where only 10% of the people vote. It is as though the Elks Club controls the govt and the army. You join the Elks club, work your way up for 30+ years, not screw up, kiss butt, form alliances, and maybe you get to be in the standing committee of 9 or even president.

You can be corrupt but not too corrupt and caught or you get a bullet in the head.

China does not have to be perfect to do better than the US. Steve Jobs told Obama that Apple built the new glass plants in China to avoid US/state govt added costs and delays, not labor savings. In my state of MN, it took 30 to 50 years to build a new bridge across the St. Croix River at Stillwater due to environmental law suits. It was only built after an act of congress exempted the new bridge from the laws.

Blogger cyrus83 May 06, 2020 9:46 PM  

A government may not be the same as a person, but it is capable of being a moral agent in its actions. This was a bit more obvious in the days when the government was headed by a king, where the king's actions and the government's were largely synonymous, but just because we have gone from a king who might have been virtuous or villainous to a motley collection of bureaucrats and empty suit politicians across all 9 alignments does not change things.

Take the story of Pharaoh in Exodus. The primary moral agent is Pharaoh himself as an individual, but on his account due to the policies he enacted as ruler of Egypt, all of Egypt is collectively punished by God during Passover. That same pattern recurs throughout the Old Testament when it comes to Israel - when the ruler of the Israelites does what is evil, the nation of Israel is punished. Jerusalem itself is frequently personified as a harlot and nations are often spoken of as having sinned before God.

It's too gross a simplification to say China is evil and the US is good. The Chinese government, like the US government and most governments, does things that are evil and things that are good. I am not a fan of the Chinese government, but at least one can say that it is for its nation's interests at the moment, unlike the governments of most Western nations.

Western governments sanction a whole lot of morally evil and depraved things, which in time is almost certain to provoke divine chastisement and ruin on the pattern of Egypt, Israel, Sodom, Gomorrah, and any other nation visited by the wrath of God for its sins. There's a really big mote to remove at home first before getting self-righteous at the evils China's government commits.

Blogger John Regan May 06, 2020 10:06 PM  

I wrote this eight years ago. Kind of relevant.

Blogger Geir Balderson May 06, 2020 10:29 PM  

@ Nate
"That stops now. It's time for the bug people to go back to the rice fields."

It will be extremely difficult to convince our Neo-Liberal, quisling Democrats to not assist China. It is hardwired in their mindset to help their 'diverse' commie brothers.

Blogger crescent wrench May 06, 2020 10:38 PM  

As others have noted, the ghost cities and hollow, non-structural cinder-blocks that have been ubiquitously viral for at least half a decade put to the proverbial sword the idea the Chinese command economy is resource-efficient.

Plenty of argument can be made about the resource inefficiencies imposed by ubiquitous corruption across the West, but I have yet to see fake cities built as make-work.

All Chinese "economic activity" is merely a facade designed as a trojan horse for chinese intel and power projection via graft.

"Money printer go brrr" was a chinese meme since the 1990's and has been used to bankrupt many western industries in targeted economic attack, with the ultimate weakness of "Democracy" exposed as our nominal "leaders", who have no skin in the game of their nations' futures, simply accepted payoffs to surrender rather than defend.

Blogger John Rockwell May 06, 2020 11:26 PM  

I'd be more favorable if China wasn't actually lumping real Christians along with the fake Christians in their persecutions.

And attempting to rewrite the Bible:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10616254/china-rewrite-bible-quran-xi-socialist/

To make Christianity Socialist and Worship Xi Jinping as the ultimate God:
https://nypost.com/2020/02/01/how-chinas-xi-jinping-destroyed-religion-and-made-himself-god/

Blogger John Rockwell May 06, 2020 11:57 PM  

KPKinSunnyPhiladelpia wrote:VD wrote:

Let me be perfectly clear: I do not think China are "the good guys"

But you do kinda like/admire them -- though not without reason.

Here's the thing about China and the Chinese. When it's bad, it's REALLY bad.

Their political upheavals have been bad, really bad. Lots and lots of people die.

Somehow, some way, they get invaded. Whether it's the Mongols, then the Western Imperialists, then the Japanese.

And when they get invaded, it's not like when France has gotten invaded, where it's pretty much soldiers that have been killed. Nope, the invasions by their enemies have been bad, really bad, as vast oceans of people have been dispensed with.

Shit, even their natural disasters -- floods, earthquakes -- are monumentally bad, really bad. Our hurricanes and tornadoes are nothin' compared to their catastrophes.

There is something about China and the Chinese that badness really attracts.

Yeah, yeah -- I get it, when you're a civilization/ethnic group around for a few thousand years, bad stuff is bound to happen. But somehow they find a scale, and create/experience a level of badness, that is just astonishing.

It gets one to thinking that Karma is real.


Chinese are absolutely genocidal with each other. Which is similar to the savagery of the Aztecs with their human sacrifice but worse.

But historically before Western ideas took hold.

When they fought they killed entire families of their enemies without regards to age or sex. Ever since the Qin Dynasty

If any orders were disobeyed the soldiers families will all be killed:

https://infogalactic.com/info/List_of_massacres_in_China

https://infogalactic.com/info/Nine_familial_exterminations


Contrast that with how God dealt with evil Kings:
"8The whole house of Ahab will perish, and I will cut off from Ahab all the males in Israel, both slave and free. 9I will make the house of Ahab like the houses of Jeroboam son of Nebat and Baasha son of Ahijah."

https://biblehub.com/bsb/2_kings/9.htm


"14But the women, children, livestock, and whatever else is in the city— all its spoil— you may take as plunder, and you shall use the spoil of your enemies that the LORD your God gives you. 15This is how you are to treat all the cities that are far away from you and do not belong to the nations nearby."

https://biblehub.com/bsb/deuteronomy/20.htm


Whilst complete annilation is done in cases of Idolatry and food shortage in the bible:
http://christianthinktank.com/nowelfare.html


Generally Women and children are spared in the Theocracy of Israel and in general Western Europe historically.

Not in China so much until the Xinhai revolution:
"Only some wealthy Manchus who were ransomed and Manchu females survived. Wealthy Han Chinese seized Manchu girls to become their slaves[83] and poor Han Chinese troops seized young Manchu women to be their wives.[84] Young Manchu girls were also seized by Hui Muslims of Xi'an during the massacre and brought up as Muslims"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinhai_Revolution









Blogger Rosa Kokko May 07, 2020 12:49 AM  

No. Everything valuable under communist governments survived despite the governments, not because of them.

That despite here meaning the normal, decent people.

Blogger mike May 07, 2020 1:51 AM  

They are not socialist they are fascist capitalists in name only. Everything for the nation nothing outside the nation as in every fascist country nation meant party and party nation. Fascism is evolved socialism more effective than communism, as both Hitler in the past and China today demonstrates.

Blogger Grandpa Lampshade May 07, 2020 8:45 AM  

Americans in particular have to have a designated "good guy" and a designated "bad guy". Perhaps it's from watching too many movies and TV shows, I dunno.
The absurdity of talking about how China is treating Chinese Christians while in America they are forcing churches to be closed, telling people how close they can be to one another and arresting Pastors who refuse to comply is breathtaking.

Blogger lynnjynh9315 May 07, 2020 11:29 AM  

John Regan wrote:I wrote this eight years ago. Kind of relevant.



That's actually an interesting argument. On an off topic, that issue may not be isolated to the US. I noticed lots of empty homes in Europe, many of them in major cities like Paris.

It a lot of paperwork to make a home officially able to live in... meanwhile it's empty and people are squatting in it.

Blogger John Regan May 07, 2020 1:17 PM  

@95 Actually, I wasn't just referring to the misallocation of housing in the so-called free market economies like the US. I was also pointing out that certain kinds of projects and investments undertaken by the government at great expense (e.g., subways) are worth the cost, and no one but the government really has the incentive to undertake those projects. And, that although they clearly are worth the cost the connection between paying that cost and the benefit derived from it is a lot more opaque than the connection between tuning in to the Kardashians and immediately deriving the entertainment value.

I think Vox's point was that a certain measure of "command economy" can work out well, as it does to some extent for the communist Chinese. I was chiming in!

Blogger JamesB.BKK May 08, 2020 9:08 AM  

The Chinese have fewer fat chicks.

Blogger JamesB.BKK May 08, 2020 9:11 AM  

The Chinese have been innovating at playing North Americans and EU staters for chumps, for years.

Blogger JamesB.BKK May 08, 2020 9:20 AM  

We lost Michael Hudson too young in that tragic auto-David-Carradine-in-a-hotel-closet type thingy and many loved what they thought was called Falling Down the Mountain, but I had no idea he also engaged in such high level pro Marxist analysis.

Blogger JamesB.BKK May 08, 2020 9:21 AM  

Indeed. Price discovery in the US currently with all this intentional asset price levitation is iffy.

Blogger JamesB.BKK May 08, 2020 9:37 AM  

Hey, fellow blog commenters that pretty much assume everyone and everything is either criminally incompetent or actively trying to screw you over until they can prove otherwise. What say we go cause some trouble?

Blogger JamesB.BKK May 08, 2020 9:59 AM  

having massive shipments of free industrial goods lowers the difficulty level quite a bit.

On the other hand, a bunch of imported free stuff destroys local producers and vendors and makes everybody on the receiving side a little dumber. Countries of Africa (and as you suggest possibly the post WWII USSR which, notably, failed) make fine examples. It's almost like the gift givers are feeling righteous about doing affirmative harm. For low priced Chinese goods the effects on the receiving end were similar although with plenty of other local impediments that drove production away, but the Misesians don't care, scold about wrongheaded mercantilist thinking, or extol the virtues of the opportunities with sets of jobs gone of higher end skills. They did until March 2020 anyway. Some neolibs and neocons would just prefer to help the foreigners first, and also don't care. Bigger fish to fry, etc.

Blogger JamesB.BKK May 08, 2020 10:33 AM  

Should mention that their pipes probably don't have proper p-traps and sewer gas freely circulates.

Blogger JamesB.BKK May 08, 2020 10:48 AM  

Meanwhile amidst blasts of headlines on multiple channels of some set of unemployment numbers matching Great Depression era levels DJIA right now up c. 1.22%, SPX up 1.04%, and NASDAQ up 1.09%. Hmm.

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts