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Monday, May 04, 2020

Unz vs Fox

It's rather remarkable to see the normally phlegmatic Ron Unz publicly bitchslapping a commenter. But he does it rather well:
Its amazing the irrelevant factoids people here throw out to obscure and deflect Chinese responsibility for unleashing a deadly pandemic on the world. I can understand Chinese threats and bullying to keep global opinion from demanding accountability from the criminals in Beijing. Its what totalitarian dictatorships do. Doesn’t change the facts though.

Well, ignorant retards like you can believe whatever ridiculous nonsense you get from FoxNews or similar sources. But the actual evidence is pretty strong that the Coronavirus outbreak was an American biowarfare attack on China (and Iran), presumably arranged by the Deep State Neocons in the Trump Administration.

Otherwise, how could our Defense Intelligence Agency have distributed a November report to all our top government officials and European allies describing a “cataclysmic” disease epidemic taking place in Wuhan OVER A MONTH before any Chinese officials had become aware of it:

Four separate government sources described the report to ABC News and its existence was independently confirmed by Israeli TV:

Now go back to watching Mike Pompeo’s silly accusations on FoxNews…
If you're not sure who to believe, remember to apply Vox's First Law of Media: the Official Story put forth by the mainstream media is always false. 

The current China-China-China refrain concerning the coronavirus is no more legitimate than was the Russia-Russia-Russia refrain concerning the 2016 presidential election. Remember, it was barely six weeks ago that the media was telling you that the whole thing started with bat soup.

Unz further lays out his logic:
There are multiple, independent sources in both the US government and Israel that agree that our Defense Intelligence Agency distributed a report in November warning of the “cataclysmic” disease outbreak that was taking place in Wuhan. Those facts seem almost incontrovertible.

As it happens, that was indeed right around the time that the Coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan had actually begun, but at such an early stage that no Chinese officials were yet aware of it, just like the virus later began circulating in various parts of America several weeks before people noticed it.

So unless you believe that our DIA has developed “precognitive technology”, how can they have possibly been aware of the outbreak before anyone in China unless elements of our national security establishment had themselves released the virus in Wuhan as a biowarfare attack against China?
At this point, it appears to be fairly obvious that the coronavirus pandemic was a Deep State biowarfare attack on China intended to create global disruption as well as direct conflict between the Chinese government and the Trump administration. With a side dish of a biowarfare attack on the Iranian elite.

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188 Comments:

Blogger Weak May 04, 2020 7:54 AM  

I absolutely could believe that this is a bioweapon released by the US. The only part of that theory that I don't get is, if we developed it, why don't we have tests readily available once it boomeranged on us?

Blogger VD May 04, 2020 7:57 AM  

The only part of that theory that I don't get is, if we developed it, why don't we have tests readily available once it boomeranged on us?

The Deep State is in, not of, the US. They wanted it to boomerang. That's why both the CDC and the WHO - both of which are Deep State - have been trying to make the pandemic worse.

Blogger The Lab Manager May 04, 2020 7:58 AM  

This really brings up some questions as to whether 9/11 would have happened under a Gore administration. Or whether the OK Bombing would have happened under a Republican one. It seems the same bad actors have been in control for decades now. I can't see Trump approving the release of a virus like this if it were presented in front of him as an option.

Blogger rikjames.313 May 04, 2020 8:15 AM  

Or they knew what the Han had stolen from the Canada Level 4 lab and recognized it when it first hit in Wuhan.

Or they rolled up part of the Harvard/U of Michigan Thousand Talents spy ring and left them in place (only charging some) so they saw inquires and data demands coming through in the early stages.

Going off topic...The University of Michigan segment of the Thousand Talents spy org has done a lot of work on tech/computer infrastructure, and weapons sights--but for some reason the Chinese burned several grad students on photo recon of the Southern Command HQ in Key West. I can't even guess why

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( according to the 13th Amendment, Slavery is neither Cruel nor Unusual: MSAGA ) May 04, 2020 8:19 AM  

1. Weak May 04, 2020 7:54 AM
why don't we have tests readily available once it boomeranged on us?


you don't think the Prometheans are trying to immanentize the Georgia Guidestones?

Blogger Andrew Jackson May 04, 2020 8:19 AM  

The Joos did it!

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 04, 2020 8:27 AM  

Maybe those official UFO video releases were to make their upcoming claim of precognitive technology more plausible?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 04, 2020 8:32 AM  

VD wrote:The Deep State is in, not of, the US. They wanted it to boomerang. That's why both the CDC and the WHO - both of which are Deep State - have been trying to make the pandemic worse.
Indeed! They probably chose Wuhan in part because there were direct flights from there to here. It is very plausible to me that spiting China was secondary to getting it here. Remember that the State Department was putting people with the chinkypox on airplanes despite orders from the Whitehouse not to? Making sure we got it here was a HUGE deal to the Deep State.

Blogger Sargent.matrim May 04, 2020 8:33 AM  

It does appear to be becoming much clearer.

It also highlights how little control a president really has.

I wonder how close to the old Roman Praetorian/Emperor power stand off, the US government actually reflects. Tinkering around the edges, appears to be the best, a very good President can do.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan May 04, 2020 8:34 AM  

Plausible, I think more plausible is the swine and poultry viruses being released into China. Industrial sabotage between agri biz companies nothing new, see the lysine scandal they even made a movie about where each company tries to screw up the biological processes of the other companies when they are not working together to price fix. Now we get the "Murder Hornet" introduced to our peaceful shores in payback. This is a deep, deep well of possible conspiracies.

As for Corona-chan my razor theory is the usual greed heads wanted a corona virus vaccine and since corona vaccines are like gold crapping unicorns the Chinese with the help of some of America's finest citizens thought they could genetically modify a virus to become a vaccine. Deep State Fauci funds it, Lieber provides operational experience, Canada provides live virus samples and the Chinese clown posse effs it up like a bad B-movie.

Blogger Soap and Ham May 04, 2020 8:35 AM  

Why would they do this though? Both China and Iran are playgrounds for the deepstate and Corona Chan has only advanced nationalist goals and talking points so far.

Blogger Gettimothy May 04, 2020 8:42 AM  

This could explain what I have read about Trump appearing shaken early in the outbreak.

It is abundantly clear wecarevgoing to have to root out, expose and kill these warmongering evildoers. Target identification is key.
Who in DIA did this.

On a related note, the behaviour of the kristols and rubins of the world makes sense if we posit that they are have known of this attempted overthrow from the beginning.








Blogger JG May 04, 2020 8:46 AM  

I saw an article somewhere, perhaps on Unz, that CoronaChan was the third biowarfare attack on China, the first two being attacks on the China's pork producers and the second on their chicken/duck/goose producers.

Regardless, we'll never know the truth of any of it.

Blogger Dwayne Thundergrit May 04, 2020 8:46 AM  

My confirmation bias is purring.

Blogger Uncle John's Band May 04, 2020 8:49 AM  

The MSM is useless because they all serve globalist factions. But it would be a great help if people could get past the notion that we are dealing with monolithic state actors. There are nations, and there are globalists within the nations. The deep state. The globalists ultimately serve one master – it’s metaphysical – but can be at odds with each other. Conflicts are multipolar, involving various national interests and factional globalist interests within the nations.

If Gates and his poison dwarf Fauci fund virology “research” in Wuhan that builds of work in North Carolina, is the bioweapon “Chinese”? “American”? What if some genetic material is from Canada? Trudeau sent money to the Wuhan Institute of Virology – is it “Canadian”? There’s quite a research trail into isolating and modifying SARS-related viruses over the last 15-20 years that doesn't break down by country.

It’s going to be difficult to deal with contemporary globalist shadow elites using the nation-state terminology of a 20th-century UN pamphlet world view.

Blogger Scuzzaman May 04, 2020 8:51 AM  

... and a heaping helping of "Move along, Citizen - or else!"

A little off topic but perhaps of interest to readers here:

"The Times has some interesting detail on the YouGov poll that was reported in the Sunday Times, with fieldwork done on Thursday and Friday of last week. The headline figure is that that 55% of the British public remain scared about getting coronavirus. And, interestingly, this doesn’t vary much with political affiliation or how you voted in the EU Referendum (although ConservativeHome found that a third of its readers support the Swedish Government’s approach). However, it does vary between men and women: just 47% of men are scared, compared to 62% of women.

(from lockdownsceptics.org)

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 04, 2020 8:53 AM  

Apparently Trump is still pushing the China Culprit line. If we know it's bogus, he probably does too. I suppose anything that helps us keep the border sealed and turns immigrants into out-migrants is a good thing.

Blogger Quilp May 04, 2020 9:00 AM  

Get a grip. I'm out

Blogger McChuck May 04, 2020 9:00 AM  

Of course, all this assumes the Chinese aren't lying about what they knew and when they knew it.

Blogger Grandpa Lampshade May 04, 2020 9:05 AM  

I've been back and forth on the bioweapon thing (except for the accusation that it's a bioweapon that China unleashed on itself to spread to 'Murica or something, that's just stupid). My initial hunch was that it was a bioweapon released by the U.S., especially when it just so happened to strike so heavily in Iran. However now looking at the pretty much average flu numbers it seems as though it's pretty lame if it's a bioweapon. At this point, I suppose I'm at about 50/50 which way it could be which I suppose isn't surprising as per usual we have so little actual information to go on. Thankfully we are able to start from the solid standpoint of knowing that the official narrative is laughably false. Thankfully I didn't throw out any of my bat soup.

Blogger Dennis P May 04, 2020 9:11 AM  

I keep seeing references to these documents and claims they exist but I can't actually find a record or even a quotation from them. I don't expect the media to report on it, but it has been difficult to find trustworthy info.

Blogger Felix Bellator May 04, 2020 9:14 AM  

So what is the connection between the DIA reports and the Deep State release of the virus in Wuhan? Why would DIA report on it if they were in on it?

Either the CCP or the Deep State in China did try to block the spread from Wuhan to the rest of China, but did not block its movement internationally. So the responsible party there carries some of the blame. But which was it?

Blogger Silent Draco May 04, 2020 9:16 AM  

DoD's black budget alone, if public reports are correct, would dwarf many smaller nations' total budget. The open part is Byzantine enough, that it takes years to understand line items and special programs. Go black, and this gets layered with classifications, compartments, and 'need-to-know' exclusions, not to mention classified or outright lies for project names. The Deep State can hide anything in there, and since they also control access to project or funding information, things can stay hidden for a long time.

A virus might be studied in white world for resume-padding effects, weaponized in 'Village People" in the black, with tests and treatments under 'Bach' and 'Sonata'. Everyday workers in the lab (3rd or 4th tier brains) might report under project numbers or other meaningless names, without knowing about a black world tie-in. Only a few DS people with, say, 'Harmonica' access can look at all three black boxes, then follow it back out to white world. Thing looking bad and you need to start a convenient little war? Someone asks for disco music as a 'joke'. Someone else expresses a desire for violin in C major, disparaging the first message in context. Everything goes according to plan - except the detailed work was in the hands of Major FUBAR and his 3rd and 4th tier brains. Merely a guess, based on declassified WWII documents and recurrent themes in a lot of spy/ military thrillers.

Blogger maniacprovost May 04, 2020 9:16 AM  

One thing we know is that bureaucrats always keep bad news a secret for as long as possible.

Logic dictates that whenever China acknowledged coronavirus, probably forced to do so by social media and/or doctors leaking info, they already knew about it we'll before that.

On the other hand, if that's true, it means we have insanely good and detailed intelligence in China.

Blogger steb May 04, 2020 9:21 AM  

I've honestly given up trying to understand what's going on. If the virus could have come from either China or the deep state then it's as well to treat them both as guilty. Decouple our economy from one and neuter the other. Whichever one is innocent of this atrocity will doubtlessly perpetrate the next one.

Blogger upchuckmcduck May 04, 2020 9:22 AM  

What doesn't make sense to me with the bioweapon angle is why is the lethality of the virus so low? If all they needed was the panic from the pandemic it makes sense but if they wanted to kill people they did a bad job.

Blogger Krymneth May 04, 2020 9:26 AM  

Weak wrote:I absolutely could believe that this is a bioweapon released by the US.

If it helps, read it as "a Cabal biowarfare attack against China and the US". Calling the Cabal/Deep State "American" may muddy your thinking by creating a scenario where "America" is launching a biowarfare attack on "America", which is confusing. It's not the same America in both cases.

This is why I've beat the drum on SG a couple of times to not resist face masks so much; even if #Coronachan is 100% fake, the organization faking it is perfectly capable of releasing a real biowarfare attack if they decide this one didn't meet their needs. Masks are a good defense against this; the more the population is already defending against this, the more the risks of discovery are amplified and the benefits of release are muted.

(I don't think #Coronachan is completely faked. Skeevy things are happening all over the place, but I think the evidence still favors something real existing behind it all. It's not like "the Cabal released a real virus" is some sort of bizarre thing that requires huge amounts of belief. However, I would love to know what the people researching it thought about it. Do they consider this virus a minor release that they could release to accomplish their goals but kept their best stuff back, or was this one of their nastiest & best and they had dreams of billions of deaths? If one believes the rumors about bits of AIDS being spliced in and what happens to the worst affected, the latter seems plausible. But it's not going anywhere nearly that badly. I find myself wondering if we're witnessing the end of the idea of biowarfare as a cheap equivalent of nukes, if it turns out biowarfare's best shot isn't really that good after all. Killing ~7 billion humans may be harder than the Cabal calculated.)

Blogger TechieDude May 04, 2020 9:27 AM  

I don't know. That seems like some tin-foil hat stuff to me. It was what? A month before the chicom leadership admitted there was a problem of an sort.

Could it be that our intelligence services had feet on the street in Wuhan and were simply reporting the same thing that the chinese doctors (who were later reprimanded) were saying?

It was no secret the chicoms stole virus from us and Canada, there was no secret that they were working on this - the woman in charge gave lectures about it.

I think Occam's razor applies here. Seems to me they were playing with something they shouldn't have been playing with and it got out of it's cage.

I think those that think the deep state is competent to pull off this Machiavellian stuff watch a little too much Blacklist.

Never use malice where stupidity is a better explanation.

Blogger tuberman May 04, 2020 9:27 AM  

Ron Unz adds one more critical point to some damning information:

* It's Intel agencies pushing the China, China, China agenda, and the end of the spear is 5 Eyes (and Israel).

* If the Fox BS was true, in the past it would have been Highly Classified at the present time, and there is no way it would be shared with Fox, so what agenda would allow something that should be Classified be shared with Fox?

* Fox IS MSM, and an arm of the DS.

* Who has the most to gain by the 'Pandemic' and how would they gain it? (It's not China, and it's not Trump's administration).


Blogger Tino May 04, 2020 9:27 AM  

I seriously doubt that Unz is right on this one. The National Center for Medical Intelligence denied the report/work-product and the fact that it was narrowly reported and Israel backed suggests to me a new narrative trial balloon to embarrass the President. It didn't have legs.

Blogger Akulkis May 04, 2020 9:27 AM  

Of course they would have happened.

Blogger Jack Ward May 04, 2020 9:27 AM  

Covid-19 could well have been deep state generated. The evidence, what with WHO, CDC, and so many dem governors acting like nazi's, seems conclusive.
As for our intelligence people offering up notice in Nov. of 2019, Deninger at Market-Ticker, weeks ago, was speculating that this covid was probably active in China even earlier than that. For once the spy types may have had it right.
Deninger, and others, have convinced me that this 'outbreak' however it started is not a pandemic. A bad flu with some strange attack vectors, yes. Don't get me wrong, if you are within those particular vectors, in a nursing home, older, particularly with co-morbidity's, over weight, already immune compromised in some way, then yes, it is a pandemic. And, speaking of vectors, God help you if you have to go to a hospital for any reason. Most of the rest of us not so much.
It certainly turned into political hay rather quickly did it not? And, some dem gov's claiming their states will stay locked down until some time in July. Well, if they do I hope the GE refuses to bail out their mis-managing larcenous butts. By July, their states will have really poor excuses for economies. There may be a surge of US citizens leaving those places. We might see a USA part of which is deeply immersed in terrifying depression and the others, maybe not so much. Though, at this point, most of the economic damage may have been done. If Trump can pull us out of this, then I will stand and salute the man. I'm talking about the economic repercussions not the flu itself. Trump has made his mistakes in all this and outright lies were part of it. Any malfeasance on his part, though, is greatly over shadowed by deep state and the so called democrat party and what they are trying to do to us and our well being be damned. I grew up a democrat, in the South, but long ago realized I would never vote for one again or believe anything they had to say.
Long winded here and apologies, but the rant felt good.

Blogger L May 04, 2020 9:30 AM  

Why would the DIA issue such a report knowing their disease had barely started? Doesn't make sense.

Blogger Ron Templeton Jr. May 04, 2020 9:37 AM  

Unz's reasoning is certainly compelling, but the question remains: how do we know what Chinese officials knew and when? Thus far, it does not seem China has been forthcoming with their death numbers, containment tactics, and economic response.

Blogger Doktor Jeep May 04, 2020 9:41 AM  

And an added bonus of wrecking the economy.
But for now, as before, when following the path of who benefits, ALL ops turn out to be neocon ops. And I like to think, Stalin killed the grandfather of this movement for less altruistic reasons. It's better than the possibility that neocons are so horrible even Stalin found them to be too dangerous to have around.
But then let me consider now who it was that told me Stalin was such the monster and how many other times their education system lied.

Blogger American Spartan May 04, 2020 9:45 AM  

Israel said “insert anything here”, press X to doubt.

Blogger Tallen May 04, 2020 9:46 AM  

I've worked in a strategic intel shop before. Could've been an analyst sensationalizing early reports to try and get his name out there as "the guy who predicted it!" It wouldn't be the first time, although usually these things fizzle to nothing.

Blogger American Spartan May 04, 2020 9:46 AM  

But it would not surprise me if the deep state did this.

Blogger Stilicho May 04, 2020 9:47 AM  

The current narrative is that it did not originate in the wuhan lab, it probably didnt originate in China at all. This is the narrative pushed by both the CCP and the MSM/globohomo press (blaming China is racist, remember).

Against this is the evidence it did escape from wuhan lab. Official acknowledgement of this evidence (Pompeo, Trump) does not make it more or less true here. There are competing narratives at work.

If Unz is right and it was a deep state op, I would expect the press to adopt that view and blame Trump for deliberately releasing virus to hurt China.The Chicom propaganda has already been making such claims, but no one takes them seriously because it is such a typical and ham-handed attempt to distract from their own sloppy handling of the outbreak in China.

It is worth recalling that the official US doctrine/position is that the US will respond with nukes to any NBC attack on US. So, if it was a Chinese attack, that will. Be covered up to a void nuclear war and it will be blamed on chinese negligence (which is also a possibility). If it was deep state op, again it may be covered up (again to avoid escalation og the war with China), but the response has to be to "nuke" the deep staters involved for the same reasons that nukes are our official response to a NBC attack by another country.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 May 04, 2020 9:47 AM  

China let international airline travel in Wuhan's airport during their pandemic.

On top of that, China has been intentionally spreading the virus. We've got video evidence of Chinese folks wiping their boogers on benches and doorknobs, as well as coughing and sneezing on people.

And let's not forget the hoarding of medical supplies that were donated to them, then sold back to the countries that donated them. The defective tests that they sold to Western nations. The list goes on.

Even if this was a Deep State attack, which it definitely appears to be, China's response is one of open hostility against the US and the West.

There's no excuse for that. It's like Iran attacking US troops in Iraq. No, the US forces shouldn't be there at all. But that doesn't justify murder.

Blogger Stilicho May 04, 2020 9:54 AM  

Question: how does Unz know that Chinese officials were unaware of outbreak at the time US intel sources were giving early warnings last fall? It would be consistent for chicoms to cover up any early outbreak (perhaps with more initial success than their later efforts once the virus got a large foothold in wuhan)

Blogger One of Us May 04, 2020 9:54 AM  

My understanding is that the Deep State wants war with China and economic collapse in the U. S. in order to derail Trump's reelection and to regain power so they can avoid accountability for their crimes, many of which the Trump administration appears to be poised to expose and prosecute. Releasing the coronavirus was a part of that desperate plan, ushering in the unconstitutional lockdowns (promoting economic collapse) and pushing for vote-by-mail in order to steal the 2020 elections.

Blogger ZhukovG May 04, 2020 10:14 AM  

Remember, the Deep State is globalist. The Deep State is in China as well as Russia and the West. Their goal, since at least the days of Trotsky, is global revolution for global government.

Whether the virus was sent from outside China or released from a lab in China, the Deep State is the likely culprit. Deep State elements in China are also likely responsible for facilitating the virus' spread along with Deep State elements in the West.

Blogger xevious2030 May 04, 2020 10:19 AM  

A bio warfare attack would have higher risk for the West, due to the control over politics, and also the control over the Lines of Communication. The West is more vulnerable, more impactable. Unless the bioweapon were specifically targeted for a genetic group, which would show across borders. And the US Deep State has not been pushing the narrative of an intentional attack by China, but the naturally occurring bat soup story. Along with Chinese Deep State facilitating directional spread. As well as US DS trying to poo poo on any potential treatments within the West. (Globalist/Transient) DS attack, using China as launch board, to disrupt West (reorganize globe), is a good fit.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 04, 2020 10:22 AM  

Soap and Ham wrote:Why would they do this though? Both China and Iran are playgrounds for the deepstate and Corona Chan has only advanced nationalist goals and talking points so far.
Q keeps telling us they're stupid.
Oft evil will will evil mar, and all that.

Blogger Akulkis May 04, 2020 10:30 AM  

"Of course, all this assumes the Chinese aren't lying about what they knew and when they knew it."

Of course they are.

The quarantined Wuhan EXCEPT for international flights.

Blogger Nihil Dicit May 04, 2020 10:32 AM  

China's response is one of open hostility against the US and the West.

There's no excuse for that.


You cannot be serious.

Blogger Stilicho May 04, 2020 10:34 AM  

>Remember that the State Department was putting people with the chinkypox on airplanes despite orders from the Whitehouse not to? Making sure we got it here was a HUGE deal to the Deep State.<

True. Could be a part of DS lan if they planted the virus, or could be simple opportunism and trying to hurt US economy and Trump. Or could even be TDS in state dept; if Trump wants travel stopped/travelers quarantined, then TDS sufferers are against it.

Blogger Shimshon May 04, 2020 10:36 AM  

Vox, you could teach Ron a thing or two about the need to ban gammas.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction May 04, 2020 10:37 AM  

I mean if you believe that Q is real, and that there has been an ongoing secret war between two, or more, factions within the US; and that one of those factions are pedo-Satanists. Then the idea that a faction that was losing said secret war would release a bioweapon upon the world isn't an outlandish premise.

Blogger Akulkis May 04, 2020 10:37 AM  

@ Grandpa Lampshade

"However now looking at the pretty much average flu numbers it seems as though it's pretty lame if it's a bioweapon."

When the flu comes through, do we get these pretty average numbers by telling 95% of the population to stay home from work, leaving only banks, grocery stores, drug stores, hardware stores and hospitals still operating?

You're comparing normal, unhindered flu numbers with numbers for a virus which has 95% of the country on lock down.

Could you, in any way, be more obtuse?

Blogger Lazarus May 04, 2020 10:38 AM  

Stilicho wrote:Question: how does Unz know that Chinese officials were unaware of outbreak at the time US intel sources were giving early warnings last fall? It would be consistent for chicoms to cover up any early outbreak (perhaps with more initial success than their later efforts once the virus got a large foothold in wuhan)

Even the links provided by Unz about the intel report claimed the leadership knew about it. But of course these are MSM sources so are suspect in that regard.

So back to stumbling about in the fog of "the silent war"

Blogger tuberman May 04, 2020 10:41 AM  

@ Weak

"I absolutely could believe that this is a bioweapon released by the US."

It was a Chinese national sneaking Bio-material out of the USA to China. Does that mean China's Xi government was behind him? NO.

There are Chinese Deep State operatives. There is a whole faction in Wuhan area that hates Xi and his government, especially for his recent crack downs on 'corruption.'

The Deep State in both the USA and China 'is in, not of,' the leaders.

The virus was almost certainly released by Chinese Deep State operatives, working with the US Deep State people. They ARE NOT part of the Xi government, and want to bring it down. The virus's release was in Wuhan, and there is that lab close to Wuhan that has Deep State ties, but those DS ties are mainly Chinese DS people at that lab. Was the virus also worked on in the US and even Canada? Likely -- the DS is World Wide.

This is just occam's razor, or the simplest possibility.



Blogger braq May 04, 2020 10:41 AM  

This theory requires the Chinese spy agencies to have been asleep at the wheel and clueless. Seems just as likely (and just as unverifiable) that China MIHOP/LIHOP in collusion with the Globalist Deep Staters. Sure enabled the CCP to clean up their Hong Kong problem quickly.

Blogger Shane Bradman May 04, 2020 10:44 AM  

I'm not interested in who is responsible. I see here an opportunity to repatriate a lot of immigrants. God works in interesting ways.

Blogger pyrrhus May 04, 2020 10:44 AM  

It's also known that Fauci was involved in funding the Wuhan lab, and that top FBI officials like Comey quashed an investigation of Fauci....

Blogger Akulkis May 04, 2020 10:47 AM  

"If the virus could have come from either China or the deep state then it's as well to treat them both as guilty. Decouple our economy from one and neuter the other. Whichever one is innocent of this atrocity will doubtlessly perpetrate the next one."

And if we don't persecute them, whichever one is guilty will do it again.

Blogger Ex vulnere May 04, 2020 10:48 AM  

Released in Nov. Probably planned to coincide with impeachment, which is why Nancy delayed vote a month and Shiff delayed. China's lockdown early on prevented fast spread. Guessing it isn't as deadly as was originally planned by deep state either.

Blogger Oswald May 04, 2020 10:48 AM  

The problem is if China is lying, then how can we really know when they became aware of it. Maybe they only became aware of it in December or maybe they were aware of it in November or even October. I just know they have been doing tons of lying about it since that time.

Blogger pyrrhus May 04, 2020 10:52 AM  

The fact that the Deep State never pushed the Blame China narrative suggests that major parts of the DS are at war with the likes of Pompeo, which is good news....The lack of lethality also suggests a half-hearted effort...

Blogger JohnG May 04, 2020 11:13 AM  

Someone invoking the DIA should raise a lot of eyebrows. It's a catastrophically inept organization, largely an officer welfare program for former counterintelligence officers - the ones that couldn't be bothered to get into real clandestine organizations/programs like Great Skills. They were (are) so inept at providing Human Intelligence support that the USMC and Army had to stand up their own programs (Army Operational Activities being one) to provide actual HUMINT. For analysis, the go-to organization has been for a while has been the National Ground Intelligence Center (NGIC). If you want a white paper but stamped with SECRET//NOFORN on the header and footer, you go to DIA. DIA didn't start getting worried about COVID till March, before that they were moving people in, around, and from Asia up until that point. They panicked five weeks ago and shuttered a lot of their facilities and training (based on wider DoD guidance) - and they're essentially still closed as of this moment, minus some admin people coming in to check emails on various systems. I can go in and check what they put out in November next time I can get into the building (everybody is on admin leave or alternate work locations now), but COVID wasn't on the radar in November. This reminds me of civilians bandying about the term "military grade" and getting all excited when military people know that's synonymous with "can sit unmolested for a couple weeks and still break". If DIA put anything out, which I doubt, it would have been regurgitated from something they heard elsewhere.

Blogger Unknown May 04, 2020 11:15 AM  

3 questions. Sorry if already addressed. One isnt event 201 a huge tell? Two why use so weak a weapon? Three why arent we in a hot war?

Blogger Nihil Dicit May 04, 2020 11:15 AM  

The lack of lethality also suggests a half-hearted effort.

We haven't even begun to deal with the economic fallout yet, so it's too early to judge anything.

Anyhow, the DS is stupid, but they're probably not that stupid. Unleashing a real Superflu would clearly have the real possibility of reaching even them. Besides, a too effective agent would making obscuring the origins rather more difficult.

Blogger Jim May 04, 2020 11:17 AM  

Chinese officials were aware of it. They were also covering it up so that their superiors weren't aware of it, because then they would get blamed and bad things happen to those who get blamed. Any competent intelligence agency could know that early.

The rub is that our intelligence agencies have not demonstrated competence.

Blogger Crew May 04, 2020 11:19 AM  

Why was Fauci's group funding the Wuhan Virology Lab to do Gain of Function research on the virus?

https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan-lab-millions-us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741

Maybe it's just a coincidence ...

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 04, 2020 11:20 AM  

Which is more likely?
1) Americans deliberately release an uncontrolled bioweapon they can't control and have no way to protect themselves from in the hope of making America bankrupt something something Orange Man bad.
2) Chinee bio-engineers habitually ignore safety protocols and accidentally release a half-way developed bioweapon into their own population.

Bonus question: Is it at all likely that US Army Intelligence would know more about what's happening on the ground in China than the Chinese government is willing to admit?

Blogger Crew May 04, 2020 11:21 AM  

The lack of lethality also suggests a half-hearted effort...

Or perhaps it was engineered just so.

You know all those children and seniors who disappear each year. Many of them probably were used for testing the virus and sacrificed.

/half-sarc

Blogger Dr Caveman May 04, 2020 11:26 AM  

As an added bonus, the virus wiped out Trump's main two achievements: record stock market and record unemployment

Blogger Stilicho May 04, 2020 11:29 AM  

Precisely. I also think the most likely involvement of DS is simple opportunism in the spread of virus to US and in resisting effective treatment to maximize damage which they hope to attribute to Trump$

Blogger Joe Smith May 04, 2020 11:30 AM  

Otherwise, how could our Defense Intelligence Agency have distributed a November report to all our top government officials and European allies describing a “cataclysmic” disease epidemic taking place in Wuhan OVER A MONTH before any Chinese officials had become aware of it

This would be really good evidence, but it requires one to believe the Chinese about their timeline. I agree with Unz in general that the Chinese have to stay closer to the truth than the Americans simply because of how retarded the media is, but something like when Chinese officials knew about their internal problem can't really be checked.

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelphia May 04, 2020 11:30 AM  

Ron Unz wrote:
So unless you believe that our DIA has developed “precognitive technology”, how can they have possibly been aware of the outbreak before anyone in China unless elements of our national security establishment had themselves released the virus in Wuhan as a biowarfare attack against China?

I hope Ron didn't break his ankle leaping to THAT conclusion.

I have worked with government officials. You know what government officials do? They write memos. Lots and lots of memos. Some are sensible; a lot are -- what's the phrase I am looking for? -- oh, that's right, pure and utter speculation, based on flimsy evidence at the time, that MAY or MAY NOT, turn out to be true.

William of Occam came into our intellectual lives for a reason -- if I were a religious man, instead of an agnostic, I might even say as a blessing from Divine Providence.

Frankly, I think the big scandal here is that Fauci and NIH, in cahoots with academic researchers hungry for Chinese money, moved their viral research to Wuhan because no one wanted that sort of research to be done here in the States.

And Fauci wants to be a hero as do these researchers. Can you imagine the accolades that would descend upon them if they figure out the key to stopping coronaviruses as a category?

Meanwhile, this new virus gets out, because folks running the lab are sloppy, and everybody wants to think it's like SARS or MERS and that it's bad, but it's not pandemic bad. Turns out it is really bad, but everyone sticks their head in the sand, or, scrambles to cover up. Too late.

If one has a choice between

(a) a vast conspiracy with a huge set of interlocking assumptions failing into place in EXACTLY the right order leading to EXACTLY the right consequences and no one finding out about it or being able to prove it,

or

(b) incompetence and stupidity. . .

it’s incompetency and stupidity every time.

Blogger Anonymous White Male May 04, 2020 11:32 AM  

Isn't Unz one of (((the Tribe)))?

Blogger SamuraiJeff May 04, 2020 11:33 AM  

3) the hospitals are empty most places and governments are using their power of law to collapse the economy for the bankers

Blogger Nostromo May 04, 2020 11:37 AM  

So the people who supposedly released the virus, warned of it before it had really taken off? No. In this instance you keep your mouth shut, and act as surprised as everyone else. Anyone pushing this has no tradecraft.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 04, 2020 11:39 AM  

""

This. I tend to doubt both sides on that one. China could just as well be claiming that they didn't know yet when they were shipping infected to other countries.

Blogger Mike Wallens May 04, 2020 11:41 AM  

If it was a bioweapon it was one of the stupidest most inefficient weapons ever devised. Instead of disabling the target it actually disabled the attacker and made China stronger.

Or more likely, Unz, like many others in the USA, is getting money from China.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 May 04, 2020 11:45 AM  

Nihil Dicit wrote:China's response is one of open hostility against the US and the West.

There's no excuse for that.


You cannot be serious.


Yes, I am.

China took the ticket. They played into the hands of the Deep State by intentionally infecting Western nations.

If you know this is an attack by a few bad actors, which they most likely did, then you're response isn't to hose the rest of the world.

Blogger Akulkis May 04, 2020 11:46 AM  

KPK
you don't need a VAST conspiracy

You just need lots of moronic drones who will do whatever they're told to do when the conspirators write an e-mail or make a phone call.

Blogger Crew May 04, 2020 11:48 AM  

False dichotomy alert!

(a) a vast conspiracy with a huge set of interlocking assumptions failing into place in EXACTLY the right order leading to EXACTLY the right consequences and no one finding out about it or being able to prove it,

or

(b) incompetence and stupidity. . .


Bletchley Park?

Blogger Karen took the Kids May 04, 2020 11:53 AM  

There has been a very poignant rise in nationalist sentiment because of the corona-chan. The obvious implication being that whatever the deep state had planned has backfired badly.

Blogger Noah B. May 04, 2020 12:09 PM  

The claim that an intelligence memo warned of a coronavirus outbreak last November arose during a smear campaign accusing Trump of not having acted quickly enough to stop the outbreak -- despite the fact that he imposed travel restrictions when virtually no elected officials were suggesting them.

We have no credible evidence that this memo exists.

Blogger Crew May 04, 2020 12:22 PM  

@72: Are you claiming AJALT?

Or are you engaging in Ad-Hominem?

Blogger Scuzzaman May 04, 2020 12:23 PM  

The German health ministry wrote a paper warning of the dangers of a pandemic arising in China, spreading across the globe etc, and planning to shut down most of the economy to protect us all from our foolhardy h need to eat, pay the rent, and so on

In 2012.

This is why certain people here are calling it a plandemic.

Blogger Jason May 04, 2020 12:24 PM  

The data noted by Unz could also point to embedded spies at the lab, or in the Chinese chain of command that directly monitor and report what happens there. I am not discounting deep state actors operating in our own government. I am simply stating that early report could have more than one origin. Hell, the deep state could have told the DIA what was coming, through any number of channels.

The simplest answer of who benefits is the deep state. No nation has benefited, or its citizens. The current state of the Corona reality benefits the multinationals, who will use this to create more wealth and control, if they can.

Blogger The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey May 04, 2020 12:25 PM  

Grandpa Lampshade wrote:However now looking at the pretty much average flu numbers it seems as though it's pretty lame

Yeah, about that. The flu numbers are one of the biggest and most effective lies in this whole maddening episode. The false flu numbers have built a false yardstick by which so many have made so many wrong conclusions and judgments, and it really has had an amazing negative consequence.

They say 60k Americans die each year from the flu. It's total bullshit. If that were the case the flu would be one of the leading causes of death and we'd all know multiple people who had died from it. There's a strong chance none of us know anybody who has. Ask your doctor how many patients he has had die of the flu. We only have 40k car accident deaths per year. We all ought to know more people who died of the flu, or at least each know one person. Think about it.

The Vietnam War took 50k American lives over 10 years, do they mean to tell us that this, the crucible Boomer experience that Boomers have been going on about, singing songs about, making movies about, devoting whole college curricula to, took ten years to FAIL being worse than your average flu season?

In truth only about 3k Americans are actually officially recorded as dying of the flu every year. The rest is projection, and one that is knowingly exaggerated. They want to convince people to get their flu shots, basically. They lie.

In truth corona-chan has killed more people in a day than the flu has done for most years.

Well, what do you know? Who do we find yet again behind yet another dangerous, malicious lie that has lulled people into perhaps a catastrophically wrong and costly posture? Well, it's our friends at the CDC once again.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 04, 2020 1:06 PM  

Akulkis wrote:You're comparing normal, unhindered flu numbers with numbers for a virus which has 95% of the country on lock down.
On the Plague Princess, they waited a week or more to take any kind of action to isolate. 80% never got it.
On the aircraft carrier, they almost certainly took action to isolate as soon as the first symptoms showed. 86% never got it.

I'm guessing that ``lock down'' has roughly no effect, at best. Statistically indistinguishable from zero.

Blogger JJ from AZ May 04, 2020 1:23 PM  

Echoing #59: Oswald and some of what #71: KPKinSunnyPhiladelphia stated above (and while I would put nothing past the scoundrels that occupy our Military-Industrial-Espionage Complex and their allies on Wall Street), Mr. Unz merely assumes that the Chinese did not know of this virus until December.

Not sure how many of the readers have had Corona, but I have and I am 99% certain where and when I got it. I got it, surrounded by Chinese conventioneers at NAMM in Anaheim, CA from the 16th through the 20th of January. It's been a multi month nightmare, but I have survived it despite my 52 years and asthma. There were, literally, hundreds of vendor associates from all of Industrial China there and I encountered many of them down in the basement cheap booths looking for a modular carbon fiber guitar from Torino.

This thing might have been ravaging China for months. The official death toll in China is almost certainly a lie. Electric generation, traffic, industrial activity and most every other economic indicator in China fell off a cliff (not only in Hubei), yet somehow coal usage barely dropped at all and even spiked in Hubei. What were they burning?

It's more believable, to me, that the DIA knew what China had stolen and knew how ineffective their controls are. This is easier to believe, rather than a complex conspiracy that they have managed to keep secret.

Simply looking at the vast conspiracy against Trump, that they couldn't keep secret, how could these idiots keep something on this scale secret?

Then again, Unz might be correct.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 04, 2020 1:36 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Which is more likely?
1) Americans deliberately release an uncontrolled bioweapon ...
2) Chinee bio-engineers habitually ignore safety protocols and accidentally release...

(((Americans))), Snidely. Not necessarily Joooos, but Deep State (((Americans))). 1&2 both look pretty plausible.
Dr Caveman wrote:As an added bonus, the virus wiped out Trump's main two achievements: record stock market and record unemployment
And now it's the Chinkypox Depression rather than the Trump Recession. The Dems have pulled most of the glory for this one onto themselves. If it was a globohomo project, it's turning into a serious own goal.

Blogger One Deplorable DT May 04, 2020 1:47 PM  

The only evidence Ron Unz has for this theory is a story by ABC News that claims "four sources", and another story by the Israeli Times that mentions a story on Israeli TV but fails to mention anything about their source(s). There's a line in the Israeli Times story that implies the Israeli TV report was independent of ABC News, but it doesn't actually confirm this. For all we know the TV report was just a rehash of the ABC News report.

This is the equivalent of "dude, just trust me bro" and "my dad works for Nintendo" on 4chan. Yet he has the audacity to criticize someone else for basing their beliefs on Fox News? Oh wait, the poster he replied to never even mentioned Fox News. Not in the post Ron replied to, and not in any subsequent posts. So "Fox News" was merely an ad hominem thrown by a man oblivious to the irony of what he was doing.

Sorry, this wasn't a bitch slap. It was a stumble by Ron. And the claimed November report is neither fact nor incontrovertible. At this point it barely ranks as clickbait.

Run Unz has written a lot of words explaining why he thinks coronavirus as a U.S. bioweapon attack makes sense. He has some decent speculation in that piece. But absent actual evidence it is just speculation. I could write internally consistent speculation that it was a Russian attack, an Israeli attack, or an attack by Little Green Men. But being internally consistent doesn't make any of those scenarios fact. Absent some real evidence Occam's razor would apply. And the two most likely theories, in order and before any theories of bioweapon attacks of any kind, are:

1) This happened because Chinese dietary and hygiene habits are a documented source of animal/human disease jumps dating back centuries before the CIA or engineered bioweapons. And those habits have not changed.

2) This happened because a strain of coronavirus being studied at the lab near Wuhan was accidentally released. This wouldn't absolve China of their primitive habits because the wet market was still a critical initial vector.

The only reason #2 is on the table is because of genome sequencing suggesting the strain is natural, but not to that specific region of China.

I have little doubt the elites of the world are trying to use this disaster to their ends. I have no reason to believe they actually initiated it.

Blogger Crew May 04, 2020 1:51 PM  

And now they are using computer modelling to claim that The Plague of Justinian was not such a big deal!

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/51/25546

Blogger Anonymous White Male May 04, 2020 2:14 PM  

Crew wrote:@72: Are you claiming AJALT?

Or are you engaging in Ad-Hominem?


Just asking a pertinent question. Concerned more with the dialectic of thesis-antithesis-synthesis.

Blogger Rule of Wrist May 04, 2020 2:15 PM  

I find Unz's research to be interesting, and in many cases compelling, but he also uses a lot of leaps in logic to reach his conclusions on many occasions.

A couple of points about this whole thing:

If we knew economic collapse was coming, and more importantly Trump and his people knew it was coming, isn't COVID the perfect scapegoat for why the system collapsed, and that makes it not a systemic failure of the Debt-based economy but something more akin to a natural disaster? If the economy just collapsed on Trump's watch out of the blue, Trump will be to blame. Since it happened due to COVID, either our 'lack of 20/20 hindsight' or China will be blamed, not Trump. Similarly, if the shutdown goes on too long, Trump has successfully shifted the blame for that on to the Governors in a genius move.

Similarly, this is also a TREMENDOUS blow to globalism in all of its guises. People are already even now talking about excising all things made in China from their lives. It's not a panacea towards the defeat of globalism, but it's certainly a good start. I can't imagine the globalists are happy about that development, and I think their desperate ploys to attempt to take advantage of their temporary local power to enact things like universal vote-by-mail will fail.

If this was a bio-weapon, the lethality of it seems low. I suppose it's possible, but something with more ACTUAL lethality would be more successful as a tool to scare people to their wits' ends. Sure it started out that way, but now people are realizing how unlethal it is I think the fear is being replaced more by a sense of being cheated or duped.

As far as deep state shenanigans, It looks to me more likely that they knew they had a new (novel!) disease sitting in a lab. Knowing that and knowing it really wasn't that big a threat, they 'accidentally' released it in China, where all their labs are located due to lax local rules. They then used this as a good excuse to instigate a shutdown. Meanwhile, they had a cure (remdesivir) all along, and were planning to sell it at top dollar. This explains their phobia relating to HCQ and Trump touting it as a cure since it's so cheap. This bit of what's been going on I'll buy no questions asked, since it's a tried and true scam. Also it's right up CDC and WHO's alley.


The trouble with all of this and the speculation involved with sussing it all out is you just can't know... anything really. Who are the players? Which are the moves, and which are the reactions? Which are the jujitsu counter moves? By who? Which moves are taking advantage of situational chaos? What was the original plan? Who's working for who here? Who's lying and about what?

Lord only knows.

Blogger FP May 04, 2020 2:15 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Which is more likely?

1) Americans deliberately release an uncontrolled bioweapon they can't control and have no way to protect themselves from in the hope of making America bankrupt something something Orange Man bad.

2) Chinee bio-engineers habitually ignore safety protocols and accidentally release a half-way developed bioweapon into their own population.

Bonus question: Is it at all likely that US Army Intelligence would know more about what's happening on the ground in China than the Chinese government is willing to admit?


Oh, #1 is possible as deep state types are crazy and appear increasingly desperate but #2 is far more likely. It also isn't impossible that US intel picked up on things before China went public. The assumption Unz makes about precognition ignores that it does take the brain trusts at CDC/NIH, the Chyna versions and WHO time to recognize a new virus is out there.

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that a nasty cold virus was hitting America and the rest of the world by late December and January that could have been corona-chan variants.

Blogger Thomas Howard May 04, 2020 2:21 PM  

There are exceptions to most rules and the most tortuous, convoluted explanation could end up being the correct one. Yet, one must wonder why the Chinese would engage in deflection with regard to denying human to human transmission, reportedly silencing physicians ringing the bell early on, and selectively banning travel from Wuhan. Their actions as bad faith actors appear to be obvious and out in the open, so the average person could be cut some slack for following the dubious teachings of the Razor. The average person, however, is uninitiated in the workings of conspiracies and lacking in the creativity and imagination of their ultra high IQ betters, which explains everything.

Blogger One Deplorable DT May 04, 2020 2:26 PM  

@85 - They say 60k Americans die each year from the flu. It's total bullshit. If that were the case the flu would be one of the leading causes of death and we'd all know multiple people who had died from it.

There are nearly 3 million deaths per year in the U.S. (2.8m for 2017 as an example). 60k is not a leading cause. Given our population of 328 million it's sort of rare to personally know a single person who dies of any cause in a given year, much less multiple people who die within a year. We would have to define "know" to actually estimate the odds, but let me put it this way: how many years of your life have involved no funerals attended? One attended? More than one attended? If you're not elderly and most of your years have involved funerals...from any cause of death...then you are almost certainly a member of a high risk group. I've seen my share of death, but if I tally the numbers most of my years on this Earth have been funeral attendance free. And that's with millions dying per year in America.

I'm not surprised that I don't know anyone who has died of the flu.

In truth only about 3k Americans are actually officially recorded as dying of the flu every year. The rest is projection, and one that is knowingly exaggerated. They want to convince people to get their flu shots, basically. They lie.

The problem is flu related death truly is a gray area, so you can effectively argue either side just by fiddling with your model a bit. An 85 year old stage 4 cancer patient lands in the ER with flu and pneumonia and dies 3 days later. What did that patient die of? Flu? Pneumonia? Cancer? Old age? One led to the other until all four were weighing down on the patient. It's the combination that did it.

Generally speaking the flu doesn't kill you unless you have a comorbidity. One could argue that we shouldn't attribute any deaths to the flu then, except for those rare cases where there truly were no other comorbidities. But that misses the point that we have a nation full of people with comorbidities and it's useful to know how deadly the flu is since it's often the thing that puts them 'over the top.'

If you're going to argue the models of the lethality of influenza then argue the models mathematically. But know before going in that there can never be a single correct number with any disease that kills based on comorbidities. Only probabilities and ranges.

Blogger Gulo Gulo May 04, 2020 3:11 PM  

The neocons are the acolytes of that branch of Bolsheviks... that were members of the ((tribe)). Even today the majority of Neocons, here in the US, are ((tribe)) members. Their attack on China is payback for them being denied their plans to grace that country with their permanent presence and its attendant "assistance" and "superior intelligence". They got played by the Chicoms and this is their revenge for it.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants May 04, 2020 3:21 PM  

When I said I believed China was telling the truth and that the virus was a bioweapon from the Deep State type actors, I got dog piled by folks left right and center.
It made perfect sense to me. Especially when Italy (Salvini nationalism), S Korea, and Iran getting BTFO'd so fast and so hard.
If the Chinese were spreading it, why didn't San Fran and Hongcouver become the hottest of hot spots?
Am I looking at this incorrectly?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 04, 2020 3:36 PM  

Zeroh Tollrants wrote:When I said I believed China was telling the truth...
Well, there's your problem. IF the US government is prone to lie, and it demonstrably is, how much more so is the Communist Chinese government, being at once Government, Communist, and Chinese?

Blogger The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey May 04, 2020 3:53 PM  

One Deplorable DT wrote:There are nearly 3 million deaths per year in the U.S. (2.8m for 2017 as an example). 60k is not a leading cause. Given our population of 328 million it's sort of rare to personally know a single person who dies of any cause in a given year, much less multiple people who die within a year.

I looked it up. Flu IS listed as a leading cause of death in the USA after all, at 55k per year:

CDC: Leading Causes Of Death In The United States

The problem is, where are these people? A doctor with 4 years as a emergency doc and 4 years as a practitioner asked this question when he realized that he'd only ever seen one flu death in his career, while seeing all the other stuff every day.

"it occurred to me that, in four years of emergency medicine residency and over three and a half years as an attending physician, I had almost never seen anyone die of the flu. I could only remember one tragic pediatric case.

Based on the CDC numbers though, I should have seen many, many more. In 2018, over 46,000 Americans died from opioid overdoses. Over 36,500 died in traffic accidents. Nearly 40,000 died from gun violence. I see those deaths all the time. Was I alone in noticing this discrepancy?"


(From Apples And Oranges

I started looking around for other countries' flu numbers. Ireland had something like 52 flu deaths in a year year. The UK had 340. Sweden was a high outlier at 505. High outlier, that is, until we get to the USA. The CDC booked 60k. Hello?

It turns out if you book flu numbers like they book other diseases, such as COVID-19, there are ~3k flu deaths per year average in the USA. ~15k in a very bad year.

The Worst Recent Flu Season Killed 15,620 Amerians.

Blogger TMLutas May 04, 2020 3:55 PM  

After SARS, the PRC instituted a communications system so that doctors could do a report without having to get past local politicians who wouldn't want bad news to get to Beijing. In late November, that system was activated to report what is now called Covid-19 or Sars-nCov2.

If the US penetrated that communication system, they'd be getting the reports as fast as Beijing. With decent analytics, they'd know about it faster than Beijing. Of course, the relevant DIA group denied that the report ever happened but you'd expect that in order to protect sources and methods.

But that means that there's a genuine controversy over whether there was a way for the US to have known.

Blogger Crew May 04, 2020 4:22 PM  

Well, they certainly seem to want war with China!

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/chinese-report-warns-potential-war-us-over-coronavirus-backlash

Blogger Nathan Hornok May 04, 2020 5:12 PM  

So basically; #Wuhan didn't kung-flu itself

Blogger SacrificialLamb May 04, 2020 5:15 PM  

@53. [quote="tuberman"] May 04, 2020 10:41 AM

It was a Chinese national sneaking Bio-material out of the USA to China. Does that mean China's Xi government was behind him? NO.

There are Chinese Deep State operatives. There is a whole faction in Wuhan area that hates Xi and his government, especially for his recent crack downs on 'corruption.'

The Deep State in both the USA and China 'is in, not of,' the leaders.

The virus was almost certainly released by Chinese Deep State operatives, working with the US Deep State people. They ARE NOT part of the Xi government, and want to bring it down. The virus's release was in Wuhan, and there is that lab close to Wuhan that has Deep State ties, but those DS ties are mainly Chinese DS people at that lab. Was the virus also worked on in the US and even Canada? Likely -- the DS is World Wide.[/quote]

What you're saying makes a lot of sense. This is definitely a "Deep State" operation. Something that could be relevant is that a mandatory vaccine program was issued for all residents of China. The National People’s Congress Standing Committee of the People’s Republic of China (PRC or China) adopted the PRC Law on Vaccine Administration (Vaccine Law). This took place on June 29, 2019. The law was intended to take effect on December 1, 2019.

http://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news/article/china-vaccine-law-passed/

Blogger Wormwood May 04, 2020 5:17 PM  

China is an integral part of the global community. They screwed up, but that cannot be allowed to be an excuse to dismantle globalism, so our global elite will work to minimize any fallout to China.

Blogger Grooveware May 04, 2020 5:23 PM  

The children of Satan must be getting desperate knowing there time is near.

Blogger SacrificialLamb May 04, 2020 5:39 PM  

@62. [quote="Unknown"] May 04, 2020 11:15 AM
3 questions. Sorry if already addressed. One isnt event 201 a huge tell? Two why use so weak a weapon? Three why arent we in a hot war?[/quote]

(1.) Yes, Event 201 is absolutely a huge tell. The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security (a nonprofit organization of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health), in conjunction with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation hosted what was called "Event 201". It was a high-level pandemic exercise hosted in New York, NY. That occurred on October 18, 2019, well before any public reports of a pandemic.

https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/

(2.) Look up a 2010 scenario entitled "Lock Step", by the Rockefeller Foundation. The writers of the report envisioned a future where a pandemic would enable national leaders to increase their authority to impose rules and restrictions that would remain after the pandemic was over.

And while COVID-19 itself is bad, it's probably not nearly as deadly as people think it is. The "official" numbers of the COVID-19 death toll in New York are very, very high. I'll only briefly mention how filthy the New York subway system is, and only briefly mention the existence of highly dense 4G plus and 5G networks in sections of New York City, exposing people to constantly high levels of EMF radiation (which weakens the immune system). In any case, it looks like patients (in New York, for example), are being given the wrong ventilator protocols, the wrong treatments (no hydrochloroquin & no z-pack therapy), and are being neglected through a combination of fear (of contagion) and deliberate malice. A couple nurses have talked about this stuff:

videopress.com/v/8s7rHxY0

www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/disease/killing-people-in-nyc-all-for-politics/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWaq8HoEROU&feature=emb_title

Also take note that the hospitals receive thousands of dollars if a patient goes onto a ventilator, so there's a financial incentive to put 35-year-old people on ventilators who can still speak, and are not necessarily in respiratory distress. Hospitals are PAID MORE if they list patients with a COVID-19 diagnosis, and they're PAID EVEN MORE if the patient then goes onto a ventilator.

https://thespectator.info/2020/04/09/hospitals-get-paid-more-to-list-patients-as-covid-19-and-three-times-as-much-if-the-patient-goes-on-ventilator-video/

That, itself, creates a financial incentive to ARTIFICIALLY BOOST the reported COVID-19 cases (and reported COVID-19 deaths). And COVID-19 patients are also deliberately being placed into nursing homes, in order to artificially increase the death toll:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/coronavirus-spreads-new-york-nursing-home-forced-take-recovering-patients-n1191811

(3.) We're not in a "hot war" yet, probably because Trump is not an idiot. His "allies" have been pushing for open warfare with Iran, Syria, and Russia...for a while now. While the core of this pandemic is about fulfilling the 2010 "Lock Step" Rockefeller Foundation scenario, there are other secondary objectives for this "plan-demic", which are:

* prevent Trump from being re-elected
* nuke the economy (through forced worldwide long-term quarantine)
* create tension and public animosity towards China
* kill and demoralize Iranians (Iran's COVID-19 deaths and recovery rate ratios are bad, compared to most other nations; that's probably not a coincidence)

Blogger crescent wrench May 04, 2020 5:43 PM  

Other power-savvy independent commentators have brought up the likelihood of the current globalist order going full "scorched earth" as they realized they couldn't recover public opinion from populists.

Now we see the results in "lockdowns" that have pushed the working class who benefited from populist policy such as brexit/trump back to Obama's "new normal" of disemployment and misery.

The real test comes in 2020:

Will the non-college white working classes of the US show up for Trump like they did in 2016?

Blogger Cash May 04, 2020 5:43 PM  

How does Unz know that Chinese officials were unaware? He doesn't.

Our MSM tells us not to call it a Chinese virus. They say we are racist.

Yet all the sudden the deep state wants to take out China? Then why do they fight Trump so hard on trade deals?

The deep state came up with a virus that's a little worse than the flu to take down China? If the deep state wanted to take down China they would back Trump on trade and they don't.

The elite in this country have been selling us out to China since the 90's and now they want China to go down that Trump is in office? Oh and they want Trump out and Biden in who has completely sold out to China in a manor that they can black mail him?

Makes no sense.

Something happened and it wasn't a big deal but the reaction by the media has nearly wiped out all commerce in the USA. And seeing American nationalist taking the side of China on this tells me a lot about the nationalist movement.

We should be using this as an opportunity to move our supply chain back to the USA. If some people get a little carried away with anti-Chinese sentiment then so what. It's called leverage and it's important in foreign policy.

Blogger Tanjil Bren May 04, 2020 5:46 PM  

@93: "#2 is far more likely"

I totally agree.

As I recall, that 'early' DIA report was a narrative floated to smear Trump as a tardy (and therefore culpable) actor. DIA's later denial that any such report was produced pretty much killed it.

The passage of infection from Wuhan to both northern Italy and Tehran was established fairly early on and is plausibly down to the heavy trade/travel links between both those destinations.

Australia's own CSIRO was funding portions of the research at that Wuhan lab (as were several US universities), and the bio-engineering of corona viruses was exactly what the funding was for (frighteningly, it was stated that they were actually engineering and experimenting with 'untreatable' forms of the virus, whatever 'untreatable' actually means).

None of this is secret.

Blogger bramley May 04, 2020 6:30 PM  

The official narrative in the UK now states that the virus was transferred from bats to humans via a 'missing link' carrier, not specifically from the wet markets.

Could well be that the statum deepii was that carrier creature.


For my money, this lockdown is a somewhat too convenient foil on which to blame the forthcoming economic crash that they have attempted to head off with the extraordinary stim packages. I'd be very surprised if there aren't hushed predictions floating around among financial analysts of massive global staffing cuts to come once the workplaces open up. And for that reason i'm wondering if they won't just roll this shebang on for as long as they conceivably can, keeping many people at home, nominally employed, but paid government money by proxy.

Blogger RMH in StL May 04, 2020 7:01 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Which is more likely?

1) Americans deliberately release an uncontrolled bioweapon they can't control and have no way to protect themselves from in the hope of making America bankrupt something something Orange Man bad.

2) Chinee bio-engineers habitually ignore safety protocols and accidentally release a half-way developed bioweapon into their own population.

Bonus question: Is it at all likely that US Army Intelligence would know more about what's happening on the ground in China than the Chinese government is willing to admit?


#2 seems far more likely. But there is all kinds of stupid going on. If the Wuhan lab is working on bio-weapons for the Chinese government, then why are we giving money to a Wuhan Virology lab? That doesn't add up either.

Blogger Gettimothy May 04, 2020 7:07 PM  

@107 good stuff.

However as I look around the Deep State's attempt at "perfect" conquest is everywhere failing.

Christendom has been here before. She will prevail again.

Blogger VFM #7634 May 04, 2020 7:29 PM  

At this point, it appears to be fairly obvious that the coronavirus pandemic was a Deep State biowarfare attack on China intended to create global disruption as well as direct conflict between the Chinese government and the Trump administration. With a side dish of a biowarfare attack on the Iranian elite.

So far, the only major countries that haven't been severely hit are Germany and Japan. Hmm... did World War II ever end? Hah.

Blogger VFM #7634 May 04, 2020 7:41 PM  

@109 Cash

It's possible that China has nationalist and globalist factions just like we do. Selling us out to "China" means selling us out to the globalist faction within China. And maybe the Deep State is pissed because not only is Trump an anti-globalist, but so are Xi Jinping, Kim Jong-un, and Iran's mullahs.

I've said before that it looks like Xi is basically China's Stalin, and he's at loggerheads with China's globalists, which in their case would be Trotskyites since they're Communists.

Blogger Damelon Brinn May 04, 2020 8:03 PM  

Question: how does Unz know that Chinese officials were unaware of outbreak at the time US intel sources were giving early warnings last fall?

Bingo. He refuses to believe anything USGov says, which is completely reasonable, but apparently takes the Chinese at their word despite plenty of evidence that they've lied about this from the start too.

Remember, it was barely six weeks ago that the media was telling you that the whole thing started with bat soup.

Right, and telling us that to even discuss a possible Chinese origin was racist. So how did that fit into the plan to start a war with China? Why did President Trump insist on calling it the Chinese Virus, and why was he the only one if blaming it on China was the Deep State goal in the first place?

Blogger Thraex May 04, 2020 8:38 PM  

Oh, Vox, so much of what you do I admire then you do this. And you stirred up the crazies. Immediate reaction is the Deep State unleashed a bioweapon in poor, innocent Communist China (and why is China lying and covering up and acting guilty as hell?,) 9/11, Al Gore, "Joos" Trump was looking "shaken" because the DIA unleashed a bioweapon in China. This one isn't going to age well

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( according to the 13th Amendment, Slavery is neither Cruel nor Unusual: MSAGA ) May 04, 2020 8:47 PM  

as i pointed out back when this kicked off, Harvard Prof ((( Leiber ))) was the lead researcher in the Wuhan lab...

whether or not elements of the American Derp State are involved in this can be debated.

what MUST be expected is that IF there was a CIA / NIH / whatever op THEN Leiber was a direct conduit to Mossad. Jews in the US security apparatus have been an open conduit to the USSR and Israel since before the Rosenbergs.

Ron Unz cannot be ignorant of this history.

therefore, Unz is engaged in hasbara to distract the stupid goyim from the responsibility ISRAEL might bear in this.

was Leiber actually trying to weaponize Corona? i have no idea and i doubt Ron does either.

that has little to do with whether or not something is "good for the Jew".

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 04, 2020 8:51 PM  

"They say 60k Americans die each year from the flu. It's total bullshit. If that were the case the flu would be one of the leading causes of death and we'd all know multiple people who had died from it."

You're one of the people I talk about who has no sense of scale at our population size. 60k/year is less than 2% of annual deaths in the USA. It might be somewhere down the leading causes list with that, but unsurprisingly it's not at the top.

Blogger VD May 04, 2020 9:13 PM  

Makes no sense.

Yes, it does. You are ignoring the obvious.

The passage of infection from Wuhan to both northern Italy and Tehran was established fairly early on and is plausibly down to the heavy trade/travel links between both those destinations.

It's not even remotely plausible.

Blogger VD May 04, 2020 9:20 PM  

#2 is far more likely.

It isn't likely at all. It's simply not the case. The amount of evidence you have to ignore in order to cling to the "those sloppy Chinese knuckleheads" is copious. Some of you should just stick to the National Review. It's clearly more your speed.

FFS, Dr Fauci's National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases was funding the Wuhan lab to the tune of $7 million! And the USA had 300 troops there around the time of the outbreak.

If you are seriously going to claim that's mere happenstance, I will never, ever, pay attention to anything you say ever again. That's just utterly retarded.

Blogger VD May 04, 2020 9:22 PM  

It's possible that China has nationalist and globalist factions just like we do.

Possible? Of course they do! How do you think the plans for the Great Leap Eastward were a) formulated and then b) cancelled?

Probably just another coincidence like the scientist at the Wuhan Lab being sloppy about making his bat-pangolin soup.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( according to the 13th Amendment, Slavery is neither Cruel nor Unusual: MSAGA ) May 04, 2020 9:59 PM  

i love how the former Moscow bureau chief for the New York Times is explaining how all the quarantine protests are White Supremacy movements.

https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-becomes-battle-cry-u-120054248.html

Blogger Crew May 04, 2020 10:04 PM  

And now the NY Fish Wrap is telling us that there was Covid-19 in France at the end of December. Are the French really that sloppy with science?

https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/05/04/world/europe/04reuters-health-coronavirus-france.html

Unpossible, they tell us!

Blogger SirHamster May 04, 2020 10:04 PM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:On the Plague Princess, they waited a week or more to take any kind of action to isolate. 80% never got it.

On the aircraft carrier, they almost certainly took action to isolate as soon as the first symptoms showed. 86% never got it.

I'm guessing that ``lock down'' has roughly no effect, at best. Statistically indistinguishable from zero.

There's plenty of uncertainty about what's going on, but the numbers you provide aren't helping your own case.

6% doesn't seem like much compared to the 80~% who don't get Corona-chan, but it is huge compared to the 14~20% who do catch her. Using your numbers, no lockdown could mean 50% more infected.

6% of 300 million Americans is 18 million. if lethality for people who get it is 1%, that could be 180K Americans.

Blogger Peter May 04, 2020 10:13 PM  

Wet markets are all around the Orient and this starts in Wuhan where they just happens to be a virus lab ? .. its painfully obvious is was a variant created in the wuhan lab and it escaped because of poor protections --- the part that we are not hearing about is that the Wuhan lab was funded by other outside interests to do what we couldn't do anymore in the US or WE. Chances are that the virus was running much earlier than Jan -- probably back to fall 2019... quite few people were getting size with a virus that was a lot like Corvan 19 .. its really the only way to explain the spread was that it was around earlier than we think.

Blogger CS May 04, 2020 10:14 PM  

"But the actual evidence is pretty strong that the Coronavirus outbreak was an American biowarfare attack on China (and Iran), presumably arranged by the Deep State Neocons in the Trump Administration."

And what is Ron's evidence for this remarkable allegation: Why, the presence in Wuhan of 300 American soldiers, participants in the International Military Games, at around the time the virus may have got loose. Compelling? Not.

Blogger CS May 04, 2020 10:35 PM  

"Regardless, we'll never know the truth of any of it."

Most likely correct. In the meantime, why are people like Ron Unz and Theodore Beale making definitive claims about it? To generate heated debate of what?

Blogger CS May 04, 2020 10:42 PM  

"There are multiple, independent sources in both the US government and Israel..."

None of which reports either Ron Unz or Theodore Beale are able, apparently, to quote or even prove to have any but mythical existence: a pathetic basis, surely, for alleging the US is waging war on China.

But this comment, like my rather innocuous assertion at the Unz Review that Covid-19 is no more deadly than the more severe strains of flu, including the Asian flu of 1957 and the Hong Kong flu of 1968 will, I assume, be deleted unless Mr. Beale is a more honest man than Unz.

Blogger Dane Parker May 05, 2020 12:49 AM  

Sorry Vox, but this conspiracy goes rather beyond the pale. It attributes far too much ingenuity to a movement of bad actors (of the government no less) who have evinced nothing but that their heads are too full of ego, pride, and cavalier overconfidence, attested by their streak of one blunder after another, than any kind of sober prudence needed to execute the seamless actions to plan prepare and execute such an operation that need be as competent as it would be comprehensive. And that's just in theory. In practice, they would be so occupied in what would be by itself a taxing (sub)operation in its own right of establishing an unconventional logistical process of circumventing normal procedures of interagency cooperation (frequently no small order even in conventional affairs) and action reports across agencies that unavoidably requires the hush-hush cooperation of countless employees at various junctures (biosample techs, researchers, lab personnel, procurement, access, information, documented research, and inventory) that Locard's principle in tracing the path of such an endeavor, were the notion true, would be all but unpreventably preserved by so many remnants of so much involvement. The mere attempt to do such a thing would raise flags. If three people can keep a secret so long as two are dead, then this whole proposal is DOA.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( according to the 13th Amendment, Slavery is neither Cruel nor Unusual: MSAGA ) May 05, 2020 1:05 AM  

124. SirHamster May 04, 2020 10:04 PM
if lethality for people who get it is 1%, that could be 180K Americans.



and yet, world wide deaths are only just now +250,000.

assume China is lying their asses off and they've actually got 100k dead, you're going to have what, 350,000 world wide?



85. The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey May 04, 2020 12:25 PM
We only have 40k car accident deaths per year.


uh, yeah, and i haven't known anyone who died in a driving accident since ... 1984? that was a couple of twins riding in a car, the LF front came off ( due to no maintenance ), the car hooked hard left and they got broadsided by oncoming, both of them snapped their necks.

had an uncle who used to race karts and ride motorcycle, he took a header over a car that pulled out in front of him ... but he didn't die for another decade when he got testicular cancer.

had a cousin who liked to pull out into traffic as a teenager ( she literally said, "I was tired of waiting" ) so much that she totaled 2 cars, and that stupid cunt still hasn't managed to kill herself.

given that almost all flu deaths are of those who are both elderly AND infirm, i'm not sure why you think i should know any.

Blogger Akulkis May 05, 2020 1:43 AM  

"Most likely correct. In the meantime, why are people like Ron Unz and Theodore Beale making definitive claims about it? To generate heated debate of what?"


In my own personal life, if I find something confusing, I get a bunch of people to argue about it, and then pay attention to what comes up from the various points of view.

This is *REAL* debate, not the ersatz political debate shames set up by American TV networks.

Blogger OvergrownHobbit May 05, 2020 2:59 AM  

@71 @89 Agreed.

Unless the D.I.A. report specifically mentioned this outbreak, this year; "calamitous viral world disaster from Wuhan" is not a smoking gun, it's a John Ringo novel. And a Tom Clancy book. Among others.

109 countries participated in the International Military Games, not just the U.S.

Mr. Unz is in full Ancient Aliens territory, here. All we really know for certain is that any official story contains a lie.

One pattern to consider is this:

1. Someone comes up with an Outrage that is bruited about in the press. (Say, that U.S. soldiers shouldn't be fighting in Iraq.)

2. The folks Being Outraged are so utterly repellent and nutty, all the normies, and particularly the normie-cons, go all in to support the cause of Outrage (Code Pink vs. GWB and the Iraq War

3. Long after it's too late, everyone else finally wises up to the fact that Team Outrage was correct about sonething.

Iraq War, Big Pharma, Deep State... Pick your poison.

Blogger SciVo May 05, 2020 3:15 AM  

@Unknown:

Three why arent we in a hot war?

Who would we shoot, the ivies? They already got themselves closed with their retardation.

Blogger SciVo May 05, 2020 3:40 AM  

Cash, just stop talking. If you think it's about countries, then you presumably are positing that our leaders are on our side, which is clearly false.

Blogger Galahad78 May 05, 2020 3:46 AM  

What I don't understand in this bio-attack-against-China-from-the-Deep-State scenario is, why then is China so stubbornly against any investigation? Do they fear that the outcome of such an investigation is already determined - against them?

Blogger Sir William Bradford May 05, 2020 4:31 AM  

A hard concept for me to come to terms with is “there is no us”. There are only competing interest groups.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 05, 2020 6:07 AM  

"that could be 180K Americans."

That's about 5% of annual deaths in the USA with or without an epidemic. Harsh perspective? Yes, but also realistic. We don't want any more people to die than have to, but there is a point when the impact on other people outweighs the benefit.

All that being said, I'm immensely glad I'm not in Trump's seat or similar right now. I might die of trying to be on the ball and being unable to sleep.

"In my own personal life, if I find something confusing, I get a bunch of people to argue about it, and then pay attention to what comes up from the various points of view."

Yeah this is pretty useful to me too, particularly with above average arguments to pick through. More hypotheses means more chances that one of them is at least close to correct. I'll take the most harebrained ideas that are much less likely than biowarfare courtesy of our Deep State, which I'd place easily in the top three.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 05, 2020 6:16 AM  

"The folks Being Outraged are so utterly repellent and nutty, all the normies, and particularly the normie-cons, go all in to support the cause of Outrage"

Oh that? That's manufactured and castrated faux-Hegelian dialectic. At least someone out there, and probably several different parties, are intentionally setting a lot of those fringe groups up with information so that they can be shot down. It happens so often that it can't possibly always be coincidental.

It's part of the scale of lies. The most insidious lie is almost entirely true, and worse still than that are two opposed lies each with large sections of the truth. The one the initiator thinks will be the weaker party is initially set up with a bunch of BS along with the most crucial things for the initiator to keep hidden. In another sense, it's the societal version of "they tell you what they are in a way that you won't believe it".

Blogger Gettimothy May 05, 2020 7:03 AM  

@136 we are Christians, Christendom is at war, now defensive, offensive soon enough.

They hate Him. You know them by their fruits.

They are on active , early, but active, war with us. It was brilliantly covert for over a century; now not so brilliant, not so covert.

Killing time approaches

Blogger Gettimothy May 05, 2020 7:17 AM  

"Regardless, we'll never know the truth of any of it."

Most likely correct. In the meantime, why are people like Ron Unz and Theodore Beale making definitive claims about it? To generate heated debate of what?


Same bullshit asserted early in the discovery of the Deep State. You types were wrong then and odds are very very heavy you are wrong now.

Your credibility is below zero

Blogger Damelon Brinn May 05, 2020 7:46 AM  

And now the NY Fish Wrap is telling us that there was Covid-19 in France at the end of December.

And last night, after reading this article, I saw a report that Australian intelligence, presumably an arm of the Deep State, is contradicting Trump's claim to have evidence that the virus came from the Wuhan lab.

I'm just not seeing a Deep State media drumbeat to blame the Chinese lab, which would be a 180-degree turn from the original "someone ate a bat so it's not really anyone's fault" narrative. To be fair, I don't pay any attention to Fox News. But Fox News isn't the whole media and can't whip up a war by itself.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 05, 2020 8:53 AM  

SirHamster wrote:

6% doesn't seem like much compared to the 80~% who don't get Corona-chan, but it is huge compared to the 14~20% who do catch her.

What is the variance in those numbers?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 05, 2020 9:00 AM  

furor kek tonicus ( what do you get if you make a honey bear Gen Sec of China? Winnie the Flu ) wrote:124. SirHamster May 04, 2020 10:04 PM

if lethality for people who get it is 1%, that could be 180K Americans.


and yet, world wide deaths are only just now +250,000.

The only way Corona-chan will get to 1% is if we let the government hoard all the Trump Pills.

Blogger Paul M May 05, 2020 9:42 AM  

swiftfoxmark2 wrote:On top of that, China has been intentionally spreading the virus. We've got video evidence of Chinese folks wiping their boogers on benches and doorknobs, as well as coughing and sneezing on people.


A while back, her in Oz, we had an issue with someone in the supply chain putting sewing needles into strawberries. Turned out to be a chinese national.

The PRC is still the enemy of democracy, and China is still the enemy of every other nation on earth. And they know it - they think it's hilarious that the west is dumb enough to buy medical suppies from them. Chinese nationals don't need specific orders to know that their job when overseas is to weaken and sabotage other people's countries. They absorb the lesson in school. The Revolution is every good communist's duty.

Those booger-wipers? Charge 'em with espionage.

Blogger Paul M May 05, 2020 9:45 AM  

Galahad78 wrote:What I don't understand in this bio-attack-against-China-from-the-Deep-State scenario is, why then is China so stubbornly against any investigation?

Because fuck you, round-eye, that's why. And because they understand that any investigation by western powers will uncover exactly what the west wants it to uncover.

The whole world knows that Saddam Hussein co-operated with the "neutral" UN weapons inspectors, whose job was to make sure that Iraq was properly disarmed before the invasion. No-one is going to make that mistake again any time soon.

Blogger Crew May 05, 2020 10:16 AM  

Chris Martineon is now saying the CoronaVirus was lab created ... so who created it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZUJhKUbd0k

Blogger The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey May 05, 2020 10:35 AM  

Well, Bob, you're a very lucky man if you haven't known any auto deaths since 1984. Very lucky indeed! I know at least 5 in the past 15 years -- just from my office.

Butt keep on believing the Fake But Accurate crap from the CDC if you want.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 05, 2020 12:05 PM  

"Very lucky indeed! I know at least 5 in the past 15 years -- just from my office."

Your office people are high risk, though I don't know why. I haven't known a single person who died in an auto accident in 20 years. I'd say 30 but I wouldn't be old enough to remember that. Heard about people second hand? Sure. Had people I know get in major wrecks? Yeah, I've been in a quadruple roller myself. Auto deaths of people I knew? Zero that I'm aware of.

So that's 800,000+ deaths that didn't even have significant indirect impact on me. Turns out that by given numbers I'd have to know around 180 people, for twenty years, to have a 50/50 chance of knowing one, and that's well above most peoples' numbers.

Blogger Crew May 05, 2020 12:44 PM  

The Trump Pills are looking better and better as a treatment for Covid-19:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920300881

Blogger The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey May 05, 2020 1:35 PM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:Your office people are high risk, though I don't know why.

Life in a populous region, maybe? I work in a research lab -- sensor, not bio. Low risk.

A drunk hit our graphics designer head on, killing her and her child. That's two. Before that one of our electrical engineers fell asleep at the wheel one night and hit tree. That's three. Before that, some idiot messing his cell phone hit head on a car of the wife and two children of another of our engineers, killing them all. That's 5.

BTW, we also had another of our engineers somehow succumb to tuberculosis. About 200 Americans die from TB per year, I know one of them.

And, a guy at my church accidentally electrocuted himself. About 300 Americans per year do that, I know one of them.

About 200 Americans die per year by getting run over by a train. One of my high school buddies managed that, so I know one of them.

Corona-chan has killed 60k in a month and half, I know two of them.

They say flu kills 60k per year, and don't know any of them. Neither does my son, who works in an old folks home, nor a family friend who does as well (~13 years experience in different homes added together). The many doctors mentioned in that "Apples and Oranges" article I linked have seen very few to none of them, either.

Believe what you want. I don't believe the official flu count for a New York Minute. Done talking about it.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 05, 2020 4:06 PM  

If your own examples don't make you leery of anecdotal evidence and small sample sizes, Ken, I don't know what will, but you ought to be.

Blogger Trump Soldier May 05, 2020 4:12 PM  

The DIA could have had intelligence and did not have to be behind it. Come on guys. Fact of the matter they are all crooks, liars and perverts.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 05, 2020 4:16 PM  

So what do you think Ken, that the numbers are way, way, way, higher than being reported, or can you accept that even though the reported numbers are probably fudged in various ways in both directions, you probably also live in an area not particularly representative of the country as a whole? Two people you know? If that's strict ratio rather than anecdote, it'd be indicative of around six to ten million deaths unless you want to posit that you personally know at least hundreds of people.

I don't trust the official stats either, but you still have no sense of proportion at the given scale.

Blogger One Deplorable DT May 05, 2020 4:16 PM  

@147 - Well, Bob, you're a very lucky man if you haven't known any auto deaths since 1984. Very lucky indeed! I know at least 5 in the past 15 years -- just from my office.

That is extremely rare. I have yet to have anyone I know die in an auto accident. Thinking about friends and family, while some of them know of bad accidents, I'm struggling to think of one who knew someone who died. I have friends who are firefighters and EMTs so they have seen auto deaths. But only one of them had a friend of a friend die in an accident. That's the one I can think of.

Butt keep on believing the Fake But Accurate crap from the CDC if you want.

As I said earlier diseases that cause death in the case of comorbidities are a gray area. All you can do is estimate it. It's very easy to accuse someone with a different bias than you of lying for gain and accuse them of being evil for it. It's not so easy to actually discuss the mathematics and make an argument purely from the numbers, recognizing your own biases and adjusting for them in the process.

I couldn't tell you the exact number of flu deaths in America in any given year. It's almost certainly lower than the high estimates of 60-80k. And almost certainly higher than any estimate which only includes those free of comorbidities. Saying "I don't know anyone who has died of the flu" is not an argument either way.

Thing is we know that the covid death count is inflated by multiple biases which aren't necessarily due to Hollywood style evil. The CDC themselves have conflicting numbers on their site based on which model (which assumptions) you use. It doesn't make sense to use the absolute lowest flu estimate against the absolute highest covid estimate.

If I look at NYC covid is far worse than the flu and lock down is justified. If I look almost any where else in the U.S. it's slightly worse than the flu and only at risk persons should shelter at home. And those statements are not contradictory. Because of any number of factors it may indeed be far worse in one or two locations yet hardly anything to worry about in others.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 05, 2020 5:47 PM  

One Deplorable DT wrote:I couldn't tell you the exact number of flu deaths in America in any given year. It's almost certainly lower than the high estimates of 60-80k. And almost certainly higher than any estimate which only includes those free of comorbidities.
Flu isn't likely to kill anyone who wasn't close to dying of something else. When you have one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel, does it really matter what gives you that final shove?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 05, 2020 5:50 PM  

One Deplorable DT wrote:If I look at NYC covid is far worse than the flu and lock down is justified. If I look almost any where else in the U.S. it's slightly worse than the flu and only at risk persons should shelter at home. And those statements are not contradictory. Because of any number of factors it may indeed be far worse in one or two locations yet hardly anything to worry about in others.
Most likely factor is New York lying about cause of death for financial and political profit, and refusing to use the Trump Cure for the same reasons.

Blogger The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey May 05, 2020 6:56 PM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:So what do you think Ken, that the numbers are way, way, way, higher than being reported, or can you accept that even though the reported numbers are probably fudged in various ways in both directions, you probably also live in an area not particularly representative of the country as a whole?

My thesis is that the annual flu death statistics are wildly overstated. They cannot possibly be true, if you look around you just do not see support for those numbers.

Why do they do this? I agree with the assessment of the doctor I linked to: the CDC purposefully exaggerates these numbers to encourage Americans to get their flu shots.

What does it matter? Besides the fact that even white lies are still lies, it misinforms people. Misinformation harms good decision-making and judgments, obviously. People (and our leaders) are left with a false yardstick by which they are measuring up corona-chan and assessing it. We have tons of people out there right now, including perhaps governors, president and prime ministers, who think COVID-19 is merely a bad flu or even a bad cold. Much ado about nothing. After all, just look at all those gigantic flu death numbers to see!! Who knew??

They have been lulled into a state of false security and assurances. Deceived.

Azure Amaranthine wrote:Two people you know? If that's strict ratio rather than anecdote, it'd be indicative of around six to ten million deaths unless you want to posit that you personally know at least hundreds of people.

I don't trust the official stats either, but you still have no sense of proportion at the given scale.


Well, looks like it may be three. My wife told me tonight that my mom's church organist's son has been intubated on a ventilator. I'm told that very bad, the odds of getting off alive aren't so hot. But he's young, he has that going for him. He's sixteen.

I'm well aware of statistical problems, and also well aware how easy it is to lie with them. And, given that we are dealing with the CDC, they simply can't be trusted.

It strikes me as a very silly position I see people taking, in that here we have a leading cause of death which is yet so rare you shouldn't expect to ever see it -- unlike all the other leading causes on that list. The truth is that the reason you commonly see every other thing on that list is that flu deaths do not belong on it.

Blogger SirHamster May 05, 2020 7:06 PM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:That's about 5% of annual deaths in the USA with or without an epidemic. Harsh perspective? Yes, but also realistic. We don't want any more people to die than have to, but there is a point when the impact on other people outweighs the benefit.
If I WAG that the economic impact of the lockdown is 4 trillion dollars, that's 22 million per prevented death. A little high, but then again fake money.

On the flip side, you can't put a pricetag on locked down schools and colleges, blue states strangling their own economies, and shaking up the rotten structure.


Ominous Cowherd wrote:What is the variance in those numbers?
80% uninfected plague princess -> 20% infected
86% uninfected corona carrier (assume lockdown/mitigation) -> 14% infected

Thus, 80 to 86% uninfected and 20 to 14% infected.

Blogger Lance Zambezi May 05, 2020 7:20 PM  

Comet Pizza conspiracy guy out with another ridiculous conspiracy theory. It's not hard to come up with reasons why DIA would've known about this at an early date. 1) spies within the lab 2) signals intelligence: "Holy shit a virus escaped" c) the virus actually started a lot earlier than commonly believed. You've really got to wonder about Vox's views on everything else when he subscribes to these stupid, baseless conspiracy conspiracies. Same goes for Unz.

Blogger One Deplorable DT May 06, 2020 5:03 AM  

@155 - Flu isn't likely to kill anyone who wasn't close to dying of something else. When you have one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel, does it really matter what gives you that final shove?

I think it does for research purposes. But it can become counter productive when data which includes comorbidities gets compressed to "X killed Y people!" for normies. That's part of the problem with the world's covid reaction. They see the big, looming death total on the evening news. They don't see the comorbidities or the odds for their age and risk groups.

@156 - Most likely factor is New York lying about cause of death for financial and political profit, and refusing to use the Trump Cure for the same reasons.

Don't forget ordering nursing homes to take coronavirus positive patients to insure plenty of spread among the most vulnerable. Just what is the per covid death bonus in NY any way?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 06, 2020 5:05 AM  

"They cannot possibly be true, if you look around you just do not see support for those numbers."

They can very easily be true. Your personal experience comprises a very, very small sample size.

"If I WAG that the economic impact of the lockdown is 4 trillion dollars, that's 22 million per prevented death. A little high, but then again fake money."

That might be on the tame end. Yes, it's fake money. Unfortunately due to the high degree of general faith in it, our lives are rather intertwined with it.

Now, if we also adjust for the average age of the deaths? From what I've heard it's north of 80. The Devil is almost literally present if we were to quantify the cost as Dollars and nothing more, but in impact on lives? That's a hell of a lot of shaft to take for people that likely have around five mostly nonproductive years to live anyway assuming they weren't already dying of something else this year.

Blogger One Deplorable DT May 06, 2020 5:12 AM  

@157 - It strikes me as a very silly position I see people taking, in that here we have a leading cause of death which is yet so rare you shouldn't expect to ever see it...

Divide 100,000...higher than the highest end estimates of yearly flu deaths...by 328 million. If I told you X was going to happen to 100,000 Americans this year, why would you ever expect to meet even one of them?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 06, 2020 5:33 AM  

"in that here we have a leading cause of death which is yet so rare you shouldn't expect to ever see it -- unlike all the other leading causes on that list."

Your issue here is that you're simultaneously using a broad definition of "leading cause" and then expecting extremely narrow results that you wouldn't be likely to see even from THE leading cause. Less than 2% of annual deaths are to flu according to given numbers. That's no one's intuitive idea of a leading cause. If you even tried to run the rough numbers in your head this would be immediately obvious. It's one out of around four thousand people.

I've changed my mind from "you've no sense of proportion in this", to "you either aren't able to have one or don't want to." Considering it takes south of ten seconds of easy head math, somehow I doubt ability is the problem.

Blogger Rocklea Marina May 06, 2020 5:46 AM  

Comet Pizza conspiracy guy out with another ridiculous conspiracy theory.

Wow, would you look at that. Operation Mocking Gnat.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 06, 2020 7:37 AM  

"You've really got to"

No we don't, trance zamboni the shill baloney.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 06, 2020 8:43 AM  

@158, that's a novel way to compute variance.

Blogger xevious2030 May 06, 2020 9:48 AM  

They don’t mean Old McDonald. China did not invent the virus, but they are not the good guys. There was no reason for China to suspect the West would not die. Trump has not moved against the whole of China. “How do you prevent a war?” Who is more vulnerable, more impactful? Who literally welded doors for an infected (not just symptomatic) flu death rate? Was what was released what was intended to be by the DS black hats, the DS white hats? There was no reason for the DS black hats to suspect the West would not die. “How do you prevent war?” Is war not mass killing? Define War. Not Binary. Logical thinking. This stuff is not hard. Hillary and Michelle are not off the table, they are not the boss, they are the help, they do as they are told. It’s not up to them. They already both had two terms, were reelected through their husbands. In the matrix, fixating on real and natural is a mistake.
https://qmap.pub/read/4098
https://qmap.pub/read/4094
https://qmap.pub/read/4045

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 06, 2020 9:50 AM  

Plus or minus ~3.6145% uninfected variance. Plus or minus ~17.6471% infected variance. That what you're looking for OC?

Blogger The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey May 06, 2020 10:01 AM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:

Your issue here is that you're simultaneously using a broad definition of "leading cause" and then expecting extremely narrow results that you wouldn't be likely to see even from THE leading cause.


NO. This is not hard. I am using the list of leading causes of death in the United States as provided by the CDC, to which I linked. All the other causes of death are commonly encountered, as you'd expect from anything listed as a "leading cause of death in the United States". It's very rarely seen.

Saying, "Well I haven't known anybody who died in a car accident since 1984" means what? That you HAVE seen a car death. Well there's at least one in your experience, as expected from a leading cause of death. Have you seen a flu death? No. Next. And on down the list to the next sample (ie., person's experience).

Why is the sample size of people who know someone who has died of the flu so very surprisingly small?

Because it's much rarer than the claim of 60k Americans per year. There is no statistical support for that claim. That number is a lie. Azure Amaranthine wrote:

Your issue here is that you're simultaneously using a broad definition of "leading cause" and then expecting extremely narrow results that you wouldn't be likely to see even from THE leading cause.


NO. This is not hard. I am using the list of leading causes of death in the United States as provided by the CDC, to which I linked. All the other causes of death are commonly encountered, as you'd expect from anything listed as a "leading cause of death in the United States". It's very rarely seen.

Saying, "Well I haven't known anybody who died in a car accident since 1984" means what? That you HAVE seen a car death. Well there's at least one in your experience, as expected from a leading cause of death. Have you seen a flu death? No. Next. And on down the list to the next sample (ie., person's experience).

Why is the sample size of people who know someone who has died of the flu so very surprisingly small?

Because it's much rarer than the claim of 60k Americans per year. There is no statistical support for that claim. That number is a lie.

Blogger Akulkis May 06, 2020 10:29 AM  

"Chris Martineon is now saying the CoronaVirus was lab created"

We've known this for a couple months after its DNA was mapped and a section of HIV was found spliced into it somewhere in the middle (interior when it's in the ravelled-up, ball-shaped configuration).

Blogger Akulkis May 06, 2020 10:36 AM  

"Well, Bob, you're a very lucky man if you haven't known any auto deaths since 1984. Very lucky indeed! I know at least 5 in the past 15 years -- just from my office."

Sheesh man, what is with the people in your office that makes them so high risk.

I'm 55 years old and know only 2 people who died in auto-related accidents, and I'm from and live around Detroit -- the largest city in the world with Public Transportation IN NAME ONLY. In truth, it's more "transportation of last resort." VERY few people use the buses here. The trolley systems were bought up by GM in the 50's, the cars sold to Mexico and the tracks ripped up or just paved over. And we've never had a subway system.

And of those 2 people I know who died in auto accidents... one was when I was a student at Purdue (Indiana). He was walking somewhere on a rainy night and got hit.

Blogger Akulkis May 06, 2020 10:51 AM  

{ Ken describes the list of people he knew who died in auto accidents, followed by someone who died of TB and another by electrocution }

/me backs away from Ken.

"Uh, nice to meet you Mr. Ramsey, but, I gotta enough friends already. I hear Hillary Clinton needs a new friend. I think we would all benefit if you could let her experience some of your special kind of friendship."

Blogger Akulkis May 06, 2020 10:56 AM  

"My thesis is that the annual flu death statistics are wildly overstated. They cannot possibly be true, if you look around you just do not see support for those numbers."

Or, you know, you don't know a lot of people who are susceptible to flu, because the high risk group for most flu strains is people in their 70's (with or without comorbidities).

Blogger Akulkis May 06, 2020 11:03 AM  

"Well, looks like it may be three. My wife told me tonight that my mom's church organist's son has been intubated on a ventilator. I'm told that very bad, the odds of getting off alive aren't so hot. But he's young, he has that going for him. He's sixteen."

Sheesh. I'm in Detroit -- 2nd-hardest hit metropolitan area outside of China, and I still don't know anyone who got Corona-chan.

(Our hospitals are diverting ALL non-Covid-19 cases the hospitals outside of Wayne/Oakland/Macomb counties. Most of the hospitals IN W/O/M are or have been totally filled with nothing but Covid-19 patients, so much so that 2 expansion hotels were set up (one where the Detroit Auto Show is normally held) and another out in the far suburbs. Fortunately, few of those overflow beds needed to be used.

Blogger Akulkis May 06, 2020 11:17 AM  

"On the flip side, you can't put a pricetag on locked down schools and colleges, blue states strangling their own economies, and shaking up the rotten structure."

While painful, the disruption of the status-quo is good, as it's getting the general public OUT of their "go along with the creaky and failing system to get along" rut. Seeing just how rotten the propaganda being fed to their kids in the public school and colleges, and how, in general, no, teaching your kids is NOT difficult. Despite the fact that public schools require about 60-credit hours of "education major" credit hours, to teach 0xxx level courses at a university (remedial courses on high-school level subjects, such as algebra or trig), the only requirement is to have a high school diploma and to have passed a higher level course in the same subject matter. (And typically, these teachers, oftentimes grad students, but sometimes even undergrads, are BETTER than who those remedial students had in high school.)

Blogger The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey May 06, 2020 11:17 AM  

You're a lucky man, too, Akulkis. Or maybe I'm just an unlucky man, but I doubt it.

A girl in my class, Julie, coming home from a Huey Lewis and the News concert got hit head on by a drunk driver and killed. The same year, a kid I grew up with, Ritchie, lost control of his car and hit a telephone pole killing himself and his girlfriend. That was 3 auto deaths from just my senior year in high school, the first year we all could drive.

I did have a large graduating class (~1000), but still. It has only continued like this. In fact on the way home I remembered another guy from my office who died in a car accident. Now, he was a nut who always drove reckless and when he wound up dead in a ditch nobody was surprise, it was predicted.

So, you're one of the guys who know of very few auto fatalities, I'm one of the guys who apparently knows of far more than my fair share. That's how statistics work. How it goes.

But we are both in the category of people who know somebody who died in auto accidents. A large category, as one would expect since auto accidents are a leading cause of death?

Now, do you know of anybody who has died of the flu?

I linked a group of doctors on the Scientific American website, with cumulative years of front line experience, who claim to have seen every other category of death on the list of leading causes on a regular basis. It's a large, front line sample size. And they can collectively recall only a relative handful of flu deaths. Their antennae went up, it is defiance of statistical expectation.

Yours should too. The official count is greatly exaggerated. And no, everybody suggesting that I'm innumerate and unsubtle enough to grasp statistical nuance does not fly.

And that's my final entry on the matter.

Blogger Akulkis May 06, 2020 11:20 AM  

@159 Lance Zembezi

We don't trust people whose nose glows.
Go sell your "don't look at the evidence! BELIEVE ME" cow-droppings somewhere else.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 06, 2020 12:30 PM  

"NO. This is not hard. I am using the list of leading causes of death in the United States as provided by the CDC, to which I linked."

You're right, it's not hard. Do the math yourself if you don't believe me.

"Now, do you know of anybody who has died of the flu?"

Statistically I would expect not to. Do the math already.

"Saying, "Well I haven't known anybody who died in a car accident since 1984" means what? That you HAVE seen a car death."

No, it literally does not, in my entire life. I have one less fortunate relative that I know of who has, and it still wasn't anyone he knew, which is, you will recall, your already irrelevant goalpost even before you tried to move it.

"Why is the sample size of people who know someone who has died of the flu so very surprisingly small?"

It's not. Your mathematically lacking and anecdotally derived opinion is invalid.

Now, I have better things to do than argue with someone repeatedly incapable of recognizing the nose on his mathematical face. May God bless you and keep you away from wherever I am.

Blogger OvergrownHobbit May 06, 2020 4:27 PM  

Belated thanks to A.A. I knew there was a pattern I was seeing, but didn't have the words to describe it properly.

Blogger SirHamster May 06, 2020 4:55 PM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:@158, that's a novel way to compute variance.
If you want the statistical variance of the numbers you provided, I don't see why you would ask me. Check your own sources.

All I am pointing out is that your conclusion that lockdown/mitigation has no effect does not follow from your numbers as is.

If you want to explain the difference between 14% and 20% as variance, feel free to make the case.

Blogger The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey May 06, 2020 5:41 PM  

Keep on believing those white papers, Azure.

They're peer reviewed and everything.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 06, 2020 5:56 PM  

Hamster, I recommend the Cartoon Guide to Statistics. Seriously, it's a good starting point.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 07, 2020 10:02 AM  

"Keep on believing those white papers, Azure."

I don't. Find something better to do than fabricate strawmen.

Blogger The Depolrable Podunk Ken Ramsey May 08, 2020 10:44 AM  

I've constructed no strawmen, I have moved no goalposts. Both of those accusations are lies.

Yes, you very much are siding with the CDC's numbers, Azure. Aggressively so. Now right off the bat I linked you to a group of ER/ICU doctors with a collective experience around death that easily accumulates into a sample size of multiple thousands (do the math), and they are telling us there's no support for the CDC numbers, they are bullshit numbers. Note our own individual experiences aren't slight and anecdotal, either, when you begin to accumulate them (do the math).

Yet here you are standing by a group of known liars, the CDC, who in this case have an incentive to lie. What's worse, you've proven to be an aggressive, abusive, ad hominem champion of it all hurling lying personal accusations.

Blogger Boaty Bear May 08, 2020 8:00 PM  

Like you said, considering the actual death toll so far, the demography of the victims ), mostly 75yrs+ (& via the CDC "less hospitalizations of children than normal seasonal flu) it's a bloody weak bio weapon, sounds more like a slightly nastier sniffles than usual.

What's one thing all the different factions jockeying for political gain from this have in common?
They all know we get a "flu season" every year.

I predict a flu epidemic sweeping the world from October/November this year that will blow through and then out, just like it has this recently departed winter, it'll probably start somewhere with poor air quality... somewhere like Wuhan, China.

Blogger Boaty Bear May 08, 2020 8:14 PM  

It was a good rant, nailed some truths there, Thanks, fwiw many of us here in the UK suspect we had it late Oct/Early Nov '19.

My heavily pregnant wife has been able to work continuously throughout this debacle IN CARE HOMES! while i, with a foot in both the building and Tourist industries have not, she's watched a 94yr old with Bowel Cancer test positive for the Corona Virus Disease of 2019, and recover!

So deadly!

Blogger Boaty Bear May 08, 2020 8:48 PM  

Obtuse?
Could you, in any way, project any more?

1. the Virus *doesn't* have 95% of the country locked down, State Governors do, and with 8 states not locking down at all, 95% sounds a just little bit high, are you sure it's not 6 million %?
& Does that "95%" have any bearing on the severity of this flu? Would every governor shutting down his state indicate a more severe contagion?

2. The Kung Flu had gone through the younger fit and healthy before you had even heard of it (or most of them had noticed it) as with all flu's, when it reaches the weak and FINALLY the elderly they start dying.
And the normal numbers reflect that fact.

3. The "lickdown" achieved sweet FA except to get women and Morons begging for us to lose rights(lol)freedoms & screw the economy, Which the Enemedia who stoked all this want because Orange Man bad,
4. Ntm the actual unnecessary deaths that have happened and will happen for years to come (the result of 2+months of heightened Cortisol levels) &
Suicides etc.

Slow clap, well done YOU!



Blogger Boaty Bear May 08, 2020 8:52 PM  

Summer "Blockbuster" from Hollywood?

"Wuhan Flu over the Cuckolds nest"

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