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Tuesday, June 16, 2020

Inquiry from a black conservative

Or at least, what used to be considered a black conservative before conservatism died its final death yesterday at the Supreme Court:
I am subscribed to your youtube account and I've been on your blog site occasionally. But honestly I became aware of you through other people or movements (Owen, Milo, comicsgate, the aftermath of the 2016 election, etc etc) When I occasionally read your blog posts or watched a darkstream specifically about or involving the aforementioned groups of people, I would be inclined to agree with your position. Now by chance I watched your latest darkstream  "Conservatism is dead" because I also thought that morning when the supreme court ruling came down that conservatism was dead. I would be considered a black consertive by some though I am a registered liberterian because of neocons.

I felt pessimistic about the future and so the title for your video really caught my attention. Now as you can probably tell from the subject of this email, the topic of that video isn't specifically what I want to talk about. When you go to the point of conservatives lying about race I admit I raised an eyebrow, I could understand an argument regarding lying about culture but race made me wince. To be honest I didn't get I guess you could say triggered until you started to argue from a Biblical standpoint. I was tempted to think alright this guy is just an ass just unsubscribe, but I wanted to take a step back and understand the entirety of your argument.

In the video you were talking to your audience, people who have been following you for some time so there was no need for a detailed argument. I understand that you were essentially summarizing viewpoints you've already expanded upon elsewhere, likely many times.  But I thought to myself there feels like a more nuanced layer of thought to be found here. I tried to look through your blog posts and I found again that you are touching on the subject with the understanding that your audience is familiar with the core content of your argument. Despite some interesting reads I grew tired after about a year of posts. Your video library is quite substantial and I don't believe any of your books specifically target this position. So if you don't mind me asking in a very entitled way, could you point me to where you discuss in detail your vibrancy position.

If possible I'd especially like to to see how you conclude

1) The biblical language of a nation/tribe is specific to race, (From my understanding you in ancient worlds you belonged to any tribe your father was from) and how you come to apply that perspective to the modern state of living.

2) That race or genetics will always overcome culture.

3) Judging someone by the content of their character is a lie. What bothered me about this argument is how I am supposed to intellectually accept your argument under the condition that I don't judge you by you, but by your race, which I should theoretically believe I can't harmonize with in the same country.

4) You can intellectually avoid an angle of pure racial superiority under that position

Finally I do not know if you have a solution to the vibrancy problem but if you do I'd like to see it. I find that even if I were to be convinced of your position and (honestly I suppose I'd have to take it in a Malcom X separatism type of way) I have no inclination to leave the United States and there is no logical reason to believe Africans would welcome a mass of African Americans as a native son as any persons of slavic descent would be welcomed in Eastern Europe after generations of separation from the "motherland".
I don't know that I've ever addressed the matter in comprehensive detail, given that it is of little interest to me due to its complete obviousness, but I can certainly answer the specific questions:
  1. The Biblical language incorporates race because it is specific to nations and tribes, and both nations and tribes are subsets of race. Logic dictates, by the transitive law, that any language that applies to the distinctions of tribes or nations must also apply to the broader sets of races. Furthermore, in a sense of the word that is much older than the "racist" context, race literally means nation. Examples: the German race, the Japanese race, the American race.
  2. Genetics will always overcome culture over time because genetics cannot be educated or easily altered and remain virtually identical from generation to generation. This is why the so-called "destruction of the Black family" so beloved of conservatives is actually an observable disproof of the false conservative perspective on race since the cause of this "destruction" is not the Great Society or the welfare state, it is simply a people returning to their preferred cultural model now that they are no longer being forced, by the constant threat of racial violence, to live according to the oppressive culture norms of their enslavers. Africa wins again.
  3. You can't judge me at all. You don't have the right or the necessary information. And vice-versa: I can't judge you. But what we both can and will inevitably do is make decisions based on the probabilities that are derived from personal experience and relevant statistical knowledge we possess. That's all that anyone can ever do. Don't confuse rhetoric for reality.
  4. First, there is no objective "pure racial superiority" in the general sense. Second, there is average racial superiority in every single honest comparison of two or more races. There is no contradiction there, it simply means that the average superiority of one race versus another completely depends upon the metric selected, be it subjective or objective. What likely triggers you is the fact that the metrics you appear to have chosen tend to indicate your perception of the inferiority of your own race. But why permit yourself to be triggered in this way? I am not bothered by the fact that the average IQ of the American Indian is estimated to be around 87 because I am not average. Neither it appears, are you.
There is only one solution to what you describe as the vibrancy problem, and it is the Biblical one as well as the one that has been forced upon many of my people: to each nation and tribe their own land, their own laws, and their own culture. Anything else means war, sooner or later, as each group seeks to impose their own cultural preferences on the other. Remove Proximity from the war equation and there will be peace between the various races, nations, and tribes.

But since we live in a fallen world there will always be those who seek to impose themselves and their ways on others, which means there will always be war. And because we live in a time when Proximity is virtually ubiquitous, we live in a time of war.

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151 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous June 16, 2020 6:06 AM  

Always refreshing to see someone respond in a genuinely thoughtful way to a view that are uncomfortable but unavoidable. I will pray for this man.

Blogger Kari Hall June 16, 2020 6:10 AM  

I would love to see any further discussion.

Anonymous Anonymous June 16, 2020 6:13 AM  

"I have no inclination to leave the United States"

Neither are the mestizos & their lovely cartels.

Blogger PaulSacramento June 16, 2020 6:33 AM  

Geneticists would say that culture is driven by the genes.
Well, they won't say it, BUT they believe it (even if only in secret where their views can't be used against themselves). You can't deny your genes, they form what and, to a great extent, WHO you are and that forms culture. If race is driven by genes and culture driven by genes then culture and race are both dependent on the genetic disposition of a certain group.
Of course, classism is a bit different BUT even within the same class, there is still, at the genetic level, distinctions.

Blogger bad wolf June 16, 2020 6:55 AM  

Vox, I found some of your responses to Churchianism here very helpful (especially when i found a guest speaker at my church railing on "unconscious bias" last week) and was wondering if you had considered writing a religious version of your Corporate Cancer book. I think we'd all appreciate having your arguments at hand as we face them.

Blogger A rebel without a General June 16, 2020 7:06 AM  

As for the genetic stuff this dude can always look at the Scandinavians in Minnesota who love importing Muslims into their state just like the old country so it aint the water. A person could argue that its cultural, but a people that have been separated for over 100 years on different continents acting the same leads to the idea that genetics are as an important factor as culture. If not and its all cultural then its so ingrained into the culture that is might as well be genetic for no discernible difference can be made.

Blogger megabar June 16, 2020 7:08 AM  

In the end, if all the kindness and compassion lead to war -- or even a continued national misery as in the current US -- is it really kindness?

My embracing of nationalism has made me sympathetic to black folks in the US.

Blogger Doktor Jeep June 16, 2020 7:13 AM  

Realizing the true nature of women leads smitten men to dislike them less.
Realizing that the races are different and have their own natures and proclivities is how we have less racism.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 16, 2020 7:27 AM  

Seems like a nice chap, word to the wise America has passed Peak Black, and I'm not writing this out of malice. Anyway IMO a glorious day is arising, that day in the crap American Empire of childish lies that day we can just state the obvious.

Blogger rondolf June 16, 2020 7:33 AM  

Of all the groups I have little sympathy for, it is intelligent black conservatives. They have to know what they are doing is a grift, simply taking advantage of the pathetic cucky nature of white conservatives desperate to get in the front of the 'I'm the least racist white man' line. This act is almost as obnoxious as the (((my fellow whites))) act. I suppose I should have some sympathy, but invariably allegiances fall along genetic boundaries, so the stab in the back is inevitable.

Blogger doctrev June 16, 2020 7:33 AM  

Once Vox said that a black person could probably clean up appealing to white liberal sensibilities in any major urban area. He couldn't have imagined how right he'd be in 2020.Given that the Dems are stomping their own hoses in an attempt to shave the President's poll numbers, though, the future prosperity of those cities might be overstated- and that's assuming we don't get the brutal civil war most Americans believe is coming.

Lots of minorities will be very reluctant to leave America: but a voluntary departure with positive assets is a lot better than many alternatives. Ranging from asset forfeiture and deportation, to actually living in an urban dystopia. If you still have to ask if you'd be fine under what's coming... you won't be. But then a lot of us may be worse off as well.

Good luck out there.

Blogger Jacksonian Grouch June 16, 2020 7:42 AM  

Vox, everything you posit here is the opposite of what it is to be an American. In fact, there is no mention of what it is that makes us have something in common, what makes us American, what brings us together, unites us. In that regard, you, your words here are not much different from that of any other contemporary intellectual who analyzes what is wrong/happening with our country. You're nicer than most, granted, but the big, easily noted difference between you and them is that when they say the words, one can see the dislike or hatred they have for America. That is absent from your writings, and I'm not being sarcastic in saying that. I sense that you do care for our Nation, but believe in solutions that would change our Nation, remove America as we know it.

E Pluribus Unum. When I was a child I often heard that wonderful phrase about my country, my fellow countrymen. These past several decades, with very very few exceptions, the only time I've heard the phrase uttered is when the words cross my lips.

People from various cultures, races, come here to America and become American. Yes, that still happens, even in today's semi-dystopic garden where Marxist/Nihilistic nourishments have been planted and harvested these past 100-120 years. But it happens still, and I have faith We the People will come back to this our Truth, in larger numbers, again.

And what is it, to then become an American? It means, among other things that what came before, the now commonplace qualifier that precedes the hyphen (when one identifies themselves...), is secondary in importance, in character, to that of being an American.

I speak from personal experience. I am of Hispanic ancestry, born here (first generation native born as my parents came from the caribbean) and saw first hand in my early youth how we were all (INSERT MOST IMPORTANT ETHNICITY HERE)-American. Joining the military and serving for 24 years, plus my own education, mostly self-taught (i'm a voracious reader), showed me the real identity that I, indeed that we all have. I am an American, not something hyphenated where the term "American" comes second in the string, and with less vocal emphasis for added measure.

This is a Promise, that we all are (and for those of us who become citizens...) Americans. And it comes true everyday. Even today it comes true... we just don't hear about it from our sources of public propaganda because that nugget does not serve the larger (diversity is strength, multiculti, race trumps culture, etc...) narrative.

Final observation: A man can go to France, Italy, England, to any other country in the world, become a citizen of that nation, but that man will not then be a Frenchman, an Italian and so on... He will be known as "Le Americain... l'Americano... the Yank". His children will be "il figlio dell'Americano". This distinction will carry on for a couple, sometimes several generations. Here, when someone from one of the other 128-odd nations of the world emigrates to the US and stands before the judge swearing the Oath of Allegiance, they renounce where they come from, and swear an Oath to... and become... America.

And this is the only country in the world where that happens.

For now.

tx

The JG

Blogger Lazarus June 16, 2020 7:47 AM  

bad wolf wrote:Vox, I found some of your responses to Churchianism here very helpful (especially when i found a guest speaker at my church railing on "unconscious bias" last week) and was wondering if you had considered writing a religious version of your Corporate Cancer book.

If your church is a 501c3 church, it is a corporation, so all the same arguments should apply.

Blogger Solon June 16, 2020 7:47 AM  

@7 you are mistaking kindness for niceness. We have WAY TOO MUCH of the latter, and hardly any of the former.

@8 realizing the differences in the races wont affect instances of racism at all, since it exists *because* of those differences. The only thing that will "end" racism is removing proximity to different races.

Or did you actually care that Congolese men rape, kill, and eat each other (not necessarily in that order) on some level above the detached, abstract observer? No one *really* cares about cannibalism until it shows up in their backyard.

Blogger rikjames.313 June 16, 2020 8:08 AM  

We enjoy trips to the Caribbean for vacations to escape the snow and ice, Jamaica in particular. We always stay in the better all inclusives because of the crime rate and we enjoy the service and compact nature of it all. And you get a much higher level of service than you do in Florida.

Maybe 20 years ago there was a large debate on replacing the Privy Council for the former British nations with a regional supreme court, perhaps with retired US Judges, because the countries recognized the basic corruption of their people/judges would prevent most outside investment, but the Privy Council was very liberal and enjoyed letting violent felons roam free. Some managers learned I was an attorney and asked what I thought… basically I had no thoughts because I didn’t know anything. I read up a fair amount because I got interested.

The people of Jamaica are African Black, some admixture, but more Black than in the US. Some whites left over, some Chinese and Indian. The Chinese and Indians are merchants. The whites run the banks and what industry is left and the technical stuff and the resorts.
The Blacks were handed a paradise, not quite first world but close, with fruit plantations, bauxite mining (the base material for aluminum), fishing, very high end coffee, recreation. Functioning courts, banking system, roads, railroad, shipping ports, airports. A pretty good K-12 education system and okay colleges.

They immediately screwed it up. The political class took the easiest political course to power and allied with gang leaders for vote farming, in return arming the gangs and giving them freedom from arrest. The police, freed from British management and handcuffed from addressing the gangs and their violence and hard drugs, went corrupt instead. Their senior government leadership either flirted with or went full socialist and ran out the mining, and failed to maintain the fruit plantations. The rails for the railroad were scrapped, ports allowed to decline.

Their economy was saved by the invention of the all inclusive resort. Their military was taken in hand by both the British and America, America more so, to the extent that they now look a lot like a US light infantry brigade from 1988 and are well regarded for a second world military.

They have made some smart decisions on cleaning up their judiciary, they have set up a nearly private police force for tourist areas to avoid the corruption problem in enforcing safety around the resorts. About 10-15 years ago America put strong pressure on the senior leaders to disconnect from the gangs and arrest those connected with the US drug gangs. Things came to a head when the then current head of government, the Prime Minister, warned an allied gang leader of an impending raid forced on him by the US, and instead of fleeing the gang leader planned a fairly effective ambush and urban defense. End result was military involvement and a lot of dead people.

The military is now mostly in charge of suppressing the gangs, they have rolling curfews and checkpoints, because the police can’t be trusted. But things are better.
Mining reopened, they have some data and call centers now. No one is willing to advance the money to revamp the plantations, so that is a shame.

So, yes, a nation of Black Africans can change, can run a second world civilization in paradise, but I don’t know if they could without the US mentoring the military, and the economic base of resorts run by whites.

Blogger VD June 16, 2020 8:13 AM  

Vox, everything you posit here is the opposite of what it is to be an American.

You have no idea what it is to be an American. Because you're not an American.

I speak from personal experience. I am of Hispanic ancestry, born here (first generation native born as my parents came from the caribbean) and saw first hand in my early youth how we were all (INSERT MOST IMPORTANT ETHNICITY HERE)-American.

See? You're not an American. And you never will be. You repeat the lies of earlier immigrants in order to falsely elevate your status. You're no more an American than I am an Italian; you are confusing state paperwork with nationality.

Blogger VD June 16, 2020 8:17 AM  

And this is the only country in the world where that happens.

That's the point: it doesn't happen here. It is an absolute fiction. And this is why the USA is more likely than not to play host to the most violent and lethal war the world has ever seen in its history.

I suggest that rather than recite more civnattery dogma, you ask yourself this question: if what you believe is true, then why was the very elite that engineered the present situation planning to evacuate to China?

Blogger ZhukovG June 16, 2020 8:18 AM  

It is likely that no one will need to leave the United States. It is more likely that the United States will be leaving us.

Racism and Nationalism aren't evil. On the contrary, they are virtues that all men of goodwill should embrace. If you cannot love your own people; how can you love others?

It is Imperialism/Globalism that is evil. No matter what name it chooses for itself, it is Imperialism/Globalism that thinks of Master(Chosen) Races and Untermenschen. It is Imperialism/Globalism that must crush the diversity of Nations under a boot of totalitarian conformity.

Blogger d June 16, 2020 8:20 AM  

Given our motivations, we ponder even civilizational problems only in terms of how they affect our own life, and so the obvious solutions are dismissed beforehand. It's how the hustlers hook us.

Blogger Damelon Brinn June 16, 2020 8:33 AM  

And this is the only country in the world where that happens.

That's a very nice story; it just happens to be a lie. Post-WWII prosperity, the economic and cultural dominance of whites, and the vast size of the United States made it possible to pretend it was true for a while, but it never really was.

Mexicans come here to be Mexicans living and working in the US for US pay. Chinese come here to be Chinese getting American degrees and stealing American technology. Somalis come here to be Somalis living on US welfare. And so on.

Do you seriously think that if you go into a Somali home in Minnesota that you're going to find an American flag to fly on holidays, a copy of the US Constitution that they keep handy for reference, an apple pie cooling on the stove, and a couple of Normal Rockwell pictures on the walls? That's what you'd find if they really came here to "be American", right? No, you're going to find a Somali flag, Somali art (if there is any), Somali dishes being cooked. Because that's who they are, and that's who they're happy being. They just don't want to live in Somalia. Can't blame them for that, but it doesn't make them American in the least.

Blogger Bohemond of Antioch June 16, 2020 8:33 AM  

I constantly remind my christian friends that the Bible clearly states that there will be tribes and tongues in the New Jerusalem. Because of diversity we have many mixed children running around including myself. My mother is full blood English and father a mixture of Mexican and Indian. Long story but having been born in in the 1950s I grew up in rural east cost. I consider myself English but the last name, brown eyes and black hair betray me all the time. I left the DC area and now live in WVa. Everyone here is similar and I stick out. I am a curiosity along with my Asian wife, I am trying to align myself with the locals knowing there may come a time I will ask to stand with them. SJWs are already infiltrating the area and the high trust whites are just now getting the idea of what is to come. I will be opening their eyes and in some ways my racial status makes it easier for me and the wife and no one can call us raciss. It is going to be interesting.

Blogger Rick June 16, 2020 8:36 AM  

Nationality abhors a vacuum.
Like religion, if you yank it out of a person, he’ll try to substitute it with something else. Often, something much worse. Either way, the results are a person who never genuinely feels “at home”.

Blogger Ransom Smith June 16, 2020 8:44 AM  

And this is why the USA is more likely than not to play host to the most violent and lethal war the world has ever seen in its history.
I've been slowly prepping my wife to this fact for years since we got married. She didn't believe me until about two weeks ago.
It's the case for a lot of people I think. They realize war is coming.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd June 16, 2020 8:46 AM  

PaulSacramento wrote:You can't deny your genes, they form what and, to a great extent, WHO you are and that forms culture.
Culture is a racial construct.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd June 16, 2020 8:50 AM  

Jacksonian Grouch wrote:... solutions that would change our Nation, remove America as we know it.
America as you know it isn't America at all. Undoing the harm progressives have done over the last century and a half would restore the America none of us have personally known.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd June 16, 2020 8:55 AM  

ZhukovG wrote:It is likely that no one will need to leave the United States. It is more likely that the United States will be leaving us.
The United States isn't America.

Blogger Lazy Hero June 16, 2020 9:03 AM  

America is becoming a prison system writ large and in response to this there will be the Aryan Brotherhood writ large. The AB formed in the 60s in the CA Penal System in response to blacks getting their civil rights and attacking White inmates. The Whites were vastly outnumbered. To become initiated in the AB you had to kill a black inmate. This was no problem for the AB. So easy in fact the blacks sought a truce. Still vastly outnumbered in prisons across America they are known as the baddest. When the war, be it civil, race, guerilla, however you want to refer to it kicks off, the AB won't be a minority in this country and there will be genocide.

Blogger The Greay Man June 16, 2020 9:05 AM  

I am thoroughly impressed with this guy's questions since most of the time any email more than a paragraph in length is a gamma writing a wall of text. Genuinely great questions.

Blogger Doug Cranmer June 16, 2020 9:19 AM  

Bohemond of Antioch wrote:I am trying to align myself with the locals knowing there may come a time I will ask to stand with them. ... racial status makes it easier for me and the wife and no one can call us raciss. It is going to be interesting.

God, most people are idiots.

Blogger urthshu June 16, 2020 9:21 AM  

Genetics is the root, culture is the flower. That includes all of those who agree or disagree on ideology or class, etc. The relative stability or instability of a race, tribe, what have you is directly related to the stability of it's bloodlines.

Blogger CM June 16, 2020 9:23 AM  

to each nation and tribe their own land, their own laws, and their own culture.

Blood and soil is baked into the Christian cake.

And that is the exact opposite of capitalist. Neither is it socialist.

Blogger Avalanche June 16, 2020 9:24 AM  

@6 "separated for over 100 years on different continents acting the same leads to the idea that genetics are as an important factor as culture."

I'd add: negros have been here for some 400 years; pre- and post-creation of the U.S. Including under the brutal control of slavery; the non-directly-State brutal control in the post-War of Northern Aggression / "Reconstruction" periods; and under heavy social control with the threat of violent reprisal up till the 1950s? 1960s?

The moment those pressures were let up? Chimp world!

Would this be partly rhetoric, based in fact? I think it may be too wordy / too (aw, heck) too many "big words: to be useful?

Blogger Doug Cranmer June 16, 2020 9:27 AM  

Damelon Brinn wrote:Mexicans come here to be Mexicans living and working in the US for US pay. Chinese come here to be Chinese getting American degrees and stealing American technology. Somalis come here to be Somalis living on US welfare. And so on.


I'm older, work in tech and have met and worked with people from all over the world in academia and industry. I became good friends with a few over the years, genuinely good people. But to a one for every immigrant I've dealt with they've treated my country as a place to loot. Even in casual conversation I've heard remarks about how great it is we have such an abundance of natural resources, the unspoken part is how great it is for them. There's not one that would stand for my country if there was a true crisis. I know all of them would side with an invader the moment things swung against us and it would look like we would lose.

They're locusts. Bugs. Parasites. They have no idea how precarious their position really is.

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelphia June 16, 2020 9:30 AM  

VD wrote:

What likely triggers you is the fact that the metrics you appear to have chosen tend to indicate your perception of the inferiority of your own race. But why permit yourself to be triggered in this way? I am not bothered by the fact that the average IQ of the American Indian is estimated to be around 87 because I am not average. Neither it appears, are you.

Right.

Vox's interlocutor is what John Derbyshire has called an IWSB -- an Intelligent Well Socialized Black. They are out there. They are a luxury good, prized by the Diversity Thought Police.

From time to time in my work I have interacted with obviously higher IQ and talented blacks, who occasionally would express the inculcated view that they have been/are/will be victims of "racism." If I felt no potential repercussions, I would tell them that the world is their proverbial oyster, and that corporations and businesses would fall all over themselves to hire and promote them.

VD also wrote:

Remove Proximity from the war equation and there will be peace between the various races, nations, and tribes.

Would that this were always true. Aggressor nations will always be with us, and will seek by perfidy or force advantages over other nations, sometimes at the margin, sometimes more substantially.

Do not be surprised if the Han and the Brahmin go to war over desolate snowy territory.

Border disputes would support the "proximity" leads to war principle, but borders are a natural state of things, and borders not negotiated and instead contested or breached can lead to uncontrolled conflagrations.

Blogger Ska_Boss June 16, 2020 9:36 AM  

USA is a WASP invention. As that demographic changes (disappears), so does the nation.

Blogger Nathan June 16, 2020 9:45 AM  

Vox,

Are children of a "mixed-race" couple who are different colors (like one white and the other black) different races? They can certainly be the same ethnicity, right? That seems like an odd way of accounting for things. I don't see how nation and tribe are a subset of race -- it seems that new ethnicities can be created precisely because of the importance of marriage that makes two one flesh.


Blogger pyrrhus June 16, 2020 9:51 AM  

Speaking of subjectivity of cultures, the African village would survive an apocalypse while the western city would not....

Blogger VD June 16, 2020 9:53 AM  

Are children of a "mixed-race" couple who are different colors (like one white and the other black) different races?

In a practical context, you are what you are accepted as. In a genetic context, you are nothing. A mongrel has no breed registration. What is the Latin taxonomy of a mule? Of a liger?

I don't see how nation and tribe are a subset of race.

Then you're literally retarded. Do you have similar difficulty in understanding that "canine" and "domestic house cat" are subsets of "mammal"?

Blogger NewTunesForOldLogos June 16, 2020 9:53 AM  

If a person existed, who had the exact opposite beliefs from you in each and every instance, could they choose to come to the US and become an American?

Blogger Avalanche June 16, 2020 9:57 AM  

@12 " plus my own education, mostly self-taught (i'm a voracious reader),"

And alas, but very obviously, all the stuff you voraciously read was propaganda and self-serving subversion / inversion by non-Americans.

Try reading Jared Taylor's books and AMREN site. Try Paul Kersey's "Stuff Black People Don't Like" and any number of his books. Listen to their joint podcasts. Try https://www.fairus.org/ for a closer look at YOUR people's bad effects on the American nation. Oh, and Steve Sailer over at Unz: his blog https://www.unz.com/isteve/ .

You FEEL as if you are or can be "American" because it's what you want to be. Sorry, you can't. You are a guest in MY people's nation and the country that MY nation built. If you and your people were capable of being American, then you and your people -- your nation -- would also be capable of 'building America' in your own lands rather than swamping the actual America and destroying it with foreign preferences, foreign ideas of what the laws should be, and foreign cultural practices.

The fact that YOU may or may not think sex with 12-yr-old girls is horrible does NOT mean your PEOPLE think so. MY people absolutely think it's horrible; we make and enforce laws -- granted, not as well as we'd hope -- but it's anathema to my people. But, "eh, it's fine" to your people.

N=1 is NOT truth. It's not even "your" truth.

Try to imagine, if you will, some early human tribe, working to survive near the Ice Age glaciers... The culture(s) that survived to pass on their genes were mainly men who protected their version of 'seed corn,' who could and would deny themselves so their children would have food later, and those men would be prime mates for women. The men who were bad hunters, lazy hunters, or seed-corner wasters would be NOT preferred. Their 'genes' would be slowly -- or quickly -- removed from the gene pool of those people. And so culture BECOMES genetic.

Your GENES prevent you from being "American" -- that's painful and hard to deal with and adjust to. You may be an excellent *citizen*, but you are not American...

Blogger Jose Miguel June 16, 2020 10:03 AM  

@18 ZhukovG
Racism and Nationalism aren't evil...It is Imperialism/Globalism that is evil.

Yes, my own grandfathers wished Americans were actually racist, because then Americans wouldn't be forcing their way of life, government, and culture on other nations at the point of the sword of the US Marines. Like China, who has no interest in making other people groups Chinese, just taking what resources they want and leaving the locals alone exempting Muslims and Tibet, the former for their behavior and the latter because they sit on all of China's freshwater supply.

@12 Jacksonian Grouch

I am an American, not something hyphenated where the term "American" comes second in the string, and with less vocal emphasis for added measure.

You are deracinated and denationalized, like my parents. Do you have any idea what it's like for an anchor baby whose parents intentionally never spoke to him in the mother tongue as a kid figuring out why he doesn't fit with Americans anywhere? When I was 13 I found out my behavior patterns weren't wrong when I visited the motherland, and even with the language barrier, the men behaved like me.

E Pluribus Unum. When I was a child I often heard that wonderful phrase about my country, my fellow countrymen. These past several decades, with very very few exceptions, the only time I've heard the phrase uttered is when the words cross my lips.

E Pluribus Unum is the demonic lie of the Tower of Babel. It is good that you are the only one in your circles still following the devil's wicked lies.

People from various cultures, races, come here to America and become American.

Almost my entire clan migrated to the US before I turned two. Only one nuclear family is in the motherland, who interestingly enough whose patriarch is now the best off of his generation because everyone who came here are in debt up to their eyeballs. Chain migration to the max. None came here to be American, they came because of a desire for Mammon. And they are all broke! What's the consequence? All my generation is spread out from New York to California to Texas to Florida, whereas in the old country the whole clan used to lived within 2 minutes walking distance and everyone was debt free. Son getting married? Build an extra floor above yours for them to raise a family in. No debt!

Blogger Jose Miguel June 16, 2020 10:04 AM  

@12 Jacksonian Grouch

And what is it, to then become an American?

For the likes of us, to spit on our ancestors, history, culture and traditions. My great-great grandfathers fought American Marines who won and took land for American strategic interests fair and square by right of conquest. The plantations crewed by debt slaves that came immediately after was all the evidence I needed to know the Union was never against slavery. My grandfathers opposed the color revolution the US pulled off in the 50's that started the longest 20th century Civil War and forced feminism down the motherland's throats. And then the generation following them abandon the whole mess to America to get rich. Invade the world, Invite the world through and through.

I pray daily that my motherland never adopts the Babel lie the American elite forced onto their people. I tried moving back to Colombia twice so far, and found out how hard it is to move to a low-trust society when your clan literally burned all bridges by moving to the US. That is the gravest sin the previous generation committed toward mine.

My prayer since holding my firstborn son for the first time is that God will open the door for us to be able to move back to Colombia and actually make it this third time. I would rather he fight for his own people in that war than fight for various tribes that are not his up here. Thankfully, things do seem to be coming into place that I may be able to take my family down, as Coronachan has resulted in remote work possibilities. I am grateful that I married, granted not within my own tribe as there were none where I've lived in my adulthood, but within my race, as my wife has been down to move to Colombia since our second date, and fits quite well in the culture the last time we visited.

Blogger PJW Gent June 16, 2020 10:04 AM  


Re: " And because we live in a time when Proximity is virtually ubiquitous, we live in a time of war."

I might have gone further and said "time of virtually ubiquitous or constant war" as a correlation to the problem of proximity.

Blogger [Redacted] June 16, 2020 10:05 AM  

"I have no inclination to leave the United States..."

Are you responsive to financial incentives? Paying skilled black people to return to Africa and granting them discounts on exported American goods would do more to rebuild Africa and America than remaining a child of immigrants in times of increasing unrest.

Blogger Tars Tarkas June 16, 2020 10:07 AM  

This guy should also check out Ryan Faulk's writings and videos on what he calls the genetic mesh. It explains pretty well why culture isn't enough.

TLDR; There is an external and internal environment, with external being the larger society and the internal being the local/neighborhood environment mostly caused by the local people. For some, it is like living in a school of fish that all secrete poison into the water. If one or two of those fish end up in a school of different fish, the poison isn't able to do its evil. But put those same fish in a school made up of its fellows and they succumb to the poisoned water.

Blogger Avalanche June 16, 2020 10:09 AM  

@22 "Either way, the results are a person who never genuinely feels "at home"."

And this is terribly sad thing for mixed race children: they will never be accepted by either group.

In relation to the 'they must go back' exiling of non-Americans, a friend once suggested that 'we clear out' and give Hawai'i as the future homeland to Japanese-American offspring; whose 'nation,' he suggested, we should call, the Anime' people.

Blogger Nathan June 16, 2020 10:17 AM  

Vox,

Cats and canines might be a subset of mammals, but while they cannot breed to produce fertile offspring, a Liberian and a Swede can. Their offspring can also be fully fertile (unlike a mule, typically infertile) and hence, and so I am not sure how they could not potentially create a new ethnicity (not a race though, because again, these "mixed breeds" can also have fraternal twins where one is white and the other black). Not sure what I am missing.

Blogger Doktor Jeep June 16, 2020 10:18 AM  

Vox, I think these are days that call on the red pills you are dispensing. Calling out these shibboleths. Muh melting pot. Muh American heritage. And the like. People cling to it like they cling to JP. Or did
I would look forward to the crowdfunding of such a book. I don't think it would prevent the strife we're headed for, but it might at least spare us of any movements to re-unionize the continent after the rubble stops smoking. I can already predict the rhetoric the pied pipers are going to use. The more people immune to it the better.

Blogger nyan June 16, 2020 10:22 AM  

bad wolf wrote:Vox, I found some of your responses to Churchianism here very helpful (especially when i found a guest speaker at my church railing on "unconscious bias" last week) and was wondering if you had considered writing a religious version of your Corporate Cancer book. I think we'd all appreciate having your arguments at hand as we face them.

One book you might find helpful is Dr. Gary North's "The Judeo-Christian Tradition", which is somewhat misleadingly-titled, but it lays out in very accessible and straightforward manner that the title is a misnomer, that neither Judaism nor Christianity is reflected in the titular "tradition", and that the philosophical basis for such is actually just a particular flavour of secular humanism.

This book will go a long way to dispel some of the wizardry used by the oligarchs to keep the Christian church in-line with their aims. It's not a perfect implementation of what you ask for, but it will give you a lot of targeted information useful for helping to break the dark spell that lies over the Bride of Christ. It's surely done as much for me.

Blogger CM June 16, 2020 10:22 AM  

Are children of a "mixed-race" couple who are different colors (like one white and the other black) different races? They can certainly be the same ethnicity, right? That seems like an odd way of accounting for things. I don't see how nation and tribe are a subset of race -- it seems that new ethnicities can be created precisely because of the importance of marriage that makes two one flesh.

For those twins (one white, one black), the white twin is rejected by the black twin's friends.

Skin color is a short hand for tribe because you don't always know for certain when you first meet someone where they belong. But it's very obvious that a different skin color will always not be one of you.

Even if we did get this "One Race" panacea where we all intermix into muddy brownness and color races are so-called "extinct", you will still get the anomaly that will be othered based on skin color - because they are a freak of nature.

As is evident by your example, mixed race doesn't guarantee everyone will look the same.

And then "racism" begins anew.

Blogger VD June 16, 2020 10:28 AM  

Not sure what I am missing.

What you're missing is that you are desperately clinging to the lies for one reason or another. It's usually the result of an identity complication in your life.

Blogger KeaponLaffin June 16, 2020 10:29 AM  

You've not been listening.
Civic nationalism is a fiction. A lie. It is a thing that doesn't exist.
I used to think like you do. Not anymore.
If people want our ideals and culture they can do it in thier own countries and more power to em.
But they don't. I say let the best and brightest in Haiti, for example, stay in Haiti to make it a better nation. We don't need them and it's a diservice to Haiti to take their best and brightest away from them.

Blogger FrankNorman June 16, 2020 10:35 AM  

Genetics will always overcome culture over time because genetics cannot be educated or easily altered and remain virtually identical from generation to generation. This is why the so-called "destruction of the Black family" so beloved of conservatives is actually an observable disproof of the false conservative perspective on race since the cause of this "destruction" is not the Great Society or the welfare state, it is simply a people returning to their preferred cultural model now that they are no longer being forced, by the constant threat of racial violence, to live according to the oppressive culture norms of their enslavers. Africa wins again.

Vox, this is something that people like you are fond of saying, but it simply isn't true.
Pre-colonial African culture -at least here in South Africa anyway - was not a sexual free-for-all, with no marriages or families. It was far closer to the Old Testament way of doing things.
A man would buy a wife from her father in exchange for some cattle. Polygamy was okay, if you could afford it. But men did not share their women with other men.

A Bantu village would not have tolerated a "welfare queen" living off of society in general and popping out kids from multiple different men, with the children growing up not knowing who their father was. Absolutely not.

It was not until the Globalists imposed the migrant-labor system, forcing black men to work in the cities while their women remained back in the villages, that their traditional rural value-system broke down.

Regarding the rest of it - IQ or ability to competently run a modern state, on the other hand? No argument.

Blogger Jacksonian Grouch June 16, 2020 10:37 AM  

@ Vox/VD - your 16 & 17 -

wherein you call me lovely things, etc: here's a helpful reply for you:

https://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2009/08/15/weekend-diversion-how-to-argue

nice graphic contained therein; you'll find the descriptive qualifiers for what you did at the lower two levels of the pyramid.

Needless to say, nothing you wrote matters/carries import in anything I do, say or believe -- and if you don't like it, well I guess that's just tough cookies for you. Thankfully, whatever anybody is in this country is not for you to decide. You could always just block this entry from posting, it's your blog after all -- and that's what I suspect you may do in this case.

moving on to better things... @ Damelon, your #20 -

I agree with everything you say, but I was trying to lay out that many people, from many different countries the world over, still come here and become Americans in that way, despite the Gramscian March through the Institutions that has steadily taken our Nation in the opposite direction. This, unfortunately, is a fact. Irrefutable. Reading through other comments above brings that last truth to clear light.

Blogger Nathan June 16, 2020 10:44 AM  

Vox,

You might be right. I don't think so though. It seems to me my responses to you are pretty strong (I know I can't be my own judge of that ultimately), rooted as they are in evidence and observation. You yourself have admitted that new ethnicities have been created throughout world history, albeit often by violent means we'd all rather ignore. I don't think I have what you are referring to as identify complications (other than being obsessed with my Christian identity, and concerned with passages like Rev. 7:9 and Acts 17:29 in relation to this question), as both myself and my wife are what everyone would call "white" (from about 10 different European ethnicities between us). I'm not saying race cannot serve as a useful concept, good shorthand in this or that circumstance, or especially that it is wholly a social construct -- clearly it isn't, as, like the concept of ethnicity it entails a genetic component -- but it certainly is more so than male and female.

Blogger carnaby June 16, 2020 10:44 AM  

Funny that the only Justice on the SCOTUS consistent upholding the rights of Englishmen is an African. The individual apparently is not always a strong reflection of the aggregate.

With every race, the lower classes are the significant part of the problem. The lower classes of Europeans are extremely challenging. But at least we can police them to some extent.

Blogger Bohemond of Antioch June 16, 2020 10:49 AM  

"They're locusts. Bugs. Parasites. They have no idea how precarious their position really is."

Most recent immigrants talk about "my country" and what they are going to do with the money made here when they return. Which will happen sooner than they think.
Not bad thinking for a modern Robert d'Artois.

Blogger carnaby June 16, 2020 10:52 AM  

So what is the solution for us nationless mongrels? Not a rhetorical question. I know not a single pure blood American, all of us have some Swede, Italian, German, Mexican, Irish, something... Even the Britons of old were invaded and remixed from time to time.

The nation's move on, mix up, and new registered breeds appear from the strife. But with so much mobility now, how can a new nation ever stabilize. We're in new times and a new form of nations or something with no word yet may result. Just because it's never happened before doesn't mean it won't. We appear to be in a transient phase of human existence. Genetically we are the same and as limited as ever, so war and struggle is inevitable. How long will it take and what will result?

Blogger Jacksonian Grouch June 16, 2020 10:52 AM  

to Jose Miguel, your #41 & 42

alot of anger. Not taking away what you see, what you think of it - but just asking, two questions -

> do you hate the USA?
> if you say yes to the above, why do you stay?

v/r

The JG

Blogger Jacksonian Grouch June 16, 2020 10:56 AM  

to Vox/VD, ur 54 -

thanks for proving me wrong! You posted it! That's being wrong in a good way (free speech ping)

Blogger VD June 16, 2020 11:02 AM  

Needless to say, nothing you wrote matters/carries import in anything I do, say or believe

Of course not. You obviously have no interest in the American perspective. Your fellow Paper Americans are tearing down statues of Thomas Jefferson because racist.

Blogger VD June 16, 2020 11:03 AM  

It seems to me my responses to you are pretty strong rooted as they are in evidence and observation.

See my previous point about "literally retarded".

Blogger VD June 16, 2020 11:08 AM  

So what is the solution for us nationless mongrels?

Either find a tribe that will accept you and fight for them or get wiped out when a tribe comes for you and the imperial police are nowhere to be found.

You do grasp that the police aren't going to be around, right?

Blogger Ranger June 16, 2020 11:15 AM  

This is, for me, a very interesting topic. I entirely agree with Vox's analysis about the U.S, and what is an American, and how an immigrant is most definitely NOT an American.
But when he says it's impossible to have such a society that actually assimilates immigrants, even from different races, I'm inclined to disagree. I believe Brazil is exactly that society, and there are several sociological and historical studies by Brazilian scholars who, realizing this uniqueness of Brazil, try to understand what are the reasons for it.
Top guy in this regard was a scholar named Gilberto Freyre, he's probably the foremost "Brazilianologist" of all time, and wrote many books dealing with that exact question: "If a truly diverse society is impossible, why is Brazil the way it is". His answer, very summarized and simplified, is that the Portuguese, even before they started settling Brazil, were already, by European standards, very mixed, with plenty of Arab, Berber, and even Sub-Saharan African blood in the mixture. Being like this, and being a tiny country trying to colonize the entire world, it was natural for them to intermingle with the natives, in a manner that Northern European settlers, like the English, would find abhorrent.

Now, obviously, Brazil has several problems caused by this diversity, I'm not claiming it is in any way an utopia, just an apparent exception to the general rule Vox is talking about here. The unbelievably high urban violence is somewhat result of this diversity (though left-wing propaganda that glorified and justified the "violence of the oppressed" has a lot to answer for as well. Brazil was not less diverse in the 60s and 70s, but it was far less violent). But it would be a serious error to classify the criminal underclass of Brazil as simply "black" or "african".

Blogger carnaby June 16, 2020 11:18 AM  

"You do grasp that the police aren't going to be around, right?"

Yes of course. I think we mongrels outnumber the purebreds. So it largely comes down to how we mongrels align when the shooting starts, yes? The pure bloods will have to accept some mongrels I'm order to survive?

Blogger carnaby June 16, 2020 11:21 AM  

And pure bloods... I haven't met an American pure blood. Are there more of them back east? The American nation, if one exists after the violence, will then be in some small region of the former USA?

I won't be an American if that sorts out in my lifetime. I wonder what we will all be? If my children will be around to see the result? Whatever the case, blessed are the peace makers. Not the peaceful. How can one make peace in such times as these?

Blogger Nathan June 16, 2020 11:26 AM  

Vox,

"See my previous point about 'literally retarded'."

Yes, I don't see where I am going wrong. Perhaps I am as you say. Maybe you no one here things the points I make have significance because you understand things a lot better than me. In which case, Dark Lord, I would beseech thy patience and actual goodness, and perhaps condescend to try to help me to better understand. Not expecting a positive reply, what with your past words stinging in my mind, but hoping for a merciful response.

Blogger Jacksonian Grouch June 16, 2020 11:30 AM  

VD, ur #61 -

"... you have no interest in the American perspective. your fellow Paper Americans are tearing down statues of Thomas Jefferson because racist..."

It looks like your incredibly stupid and petty viscious insults are how you generate clicks for your site - so I'm going to tell you a few things that you won't like.

#1 they're not my fellow paper Americans - if anything, they're your fellow paper Americans... they have more in common with you: you both hate real Americans. They should be arrested, prosecuted and thrown in Jail for a long time.

#2 Here are several Truths that you will never accept, you will always rail against, but you will never, never, ever change:

> I am born here, a Native American;
> I have served Honorably as a Military Veteran, two services, 24 years;
> I took an Oath, to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign & domestic;
> That Oath has no expiration;
> The Founding Fathers are mine, more so even than they are yours;
> your opinion, your low-bred attacks on the person, matter NOTHING;
> but if your attacks ever came close to threatening me or mine in a dangerous and real way, beyond petty, viscious words that you so love to use, you can be assured that I can - and will - defend these in a manner consistent before G-D, Capt. John Parker and the 2A.

Blogger Stilicho June 16, 2020 11:36 AM  

@Avalanche the dialectic is fine. The rhetorical version is "Where there are Africans, there is Africa" or "Africans = Africa --> Africa wins again"

Blogger carnaby June 16, 2020 11:40 AM  

Needless to say, nothing you wrote matters/carries import in anything I do, say or believe

Neither does it for Ilhan Omar when she's telling us all what Americans want.

Blogger upchuckmcduck June 16, 2020 11:41 AM  

If genetics always overcomes culture then,

How did Alric and the German tribes go from the sacking of Rome to where they are now? If they were predisposed to barbarism then how did they ever build a civilization? Especially when barbarism is the antithesis of civilization. For the German tribes it seems like Christianity and time, but that still doesn’t answer the question for advanced civilizations that got there without Christianity, India, China and Japan for instance.

Was the influence of Christianity in Germany simply a redirection of their natural disposition that lead to civilization or did it actually change the nature of those people? Will we see Germany slip back to barbarism as Christianity loses its grasp there?

Thanks for talking on these topics Vox I always find them fascinating.

Blogger VD June 16, 2020 11:42 AM  

I am born here, a Native American

Civnattery on steroids.

The Founding Fathers are mine, more so even than they are yours

That's a fascinating claim considering that I am a literal descendant of actual American revolutionaries. Plural.

Posture and lie to yourself all you like. Those lies are not going to save you or the empire you served.

Blogger carnaby June 16, 2020 11:44 AM  

It looks like your incredibly stupid and petty viscious insults are how you generate clicks for your site - so I'm going to tell you a few things that you won't like.

Bwahahaha! What a dumbass. Will not like? Vox will not give half a crap what you write here or anywhere.

Blogger Nikolai Collushnikov June 16, 2020 11:47 AM  

"G-D" is always a dead giveaway. Along with gamma.

Blogger Doug Cranmer June 16, 2020 11:50 AM  

Jacksonian Grouch wrote:> I have served Honorably as a Military Veteran, two services, 24 years;
Thank you for your service. Now go the fuck home.

> I took an Oath, to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign & domestic;
You got your pay and bennies. Go the fuck back home.

> but if your attacks ever came close to threatening me or mine ... other blather.

Jeeze, dude. You've been told a war is coming between Americans and you people how many times? Maybe it's starting to sink in?

Blogger FrankNorman June 16, 2020 11:58 AM  

In answer to all the "what about us mongrels?" people - I think Vox's predictions are not necessarily as bleak for you as it may seem at first glance.

Because you can get to be a member of any nation that will accept you as such.

Blogger Nathan June 16, 2020 11:59 AM  

Vox,

Just so you know, I don't think that the point that I thought was valid and trying to make...

means that there are not going to be disastrous political consequences in the United States largely for the reasons you describe...



Blogger Nathan June 16, 2020 12:09 PM  

And the point trying to make (trying one more time, and then I promise I will not comment again -- I don't want to waste your time):

Ligers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liger) and tigons show that lions and tigers are not as separate as most think them to be. This seems similar to dog breeding (i.e. they are all basically the same species even if some perhaps can't breed successfully because of physical limitations [Chihuahua and St. Bernard? No.]). If you bred ligers with ligers (they are not infertile), you could pretty quickly build a new population (a new ethnos, or genos ["race"] as understood more classically).

This is why I question... approaching matters from what seems to me a more top-down view (maybe seeing race as a broader genetic pool from which tribes and nations ultimately emerge), as justified as one might think one is in doing this, just doesn't ultimately give sufficient justice to the concrete on the ground messiness...

Again, I don't think any of that necessarily means you are not ultimately right in your analysis and predication about proximity and diversity...

Shutting up and just listening. Again, really am eager to learn, don't want to run from and suppress truth.

Blogger T.L. Ciottoli June 16, 2020 12:15 PM  

'Conservative' means nothing anymore. If it does mean something, it means 'cuck' or 'failure.'

The word is 'Traditionalist.' Or rather 'Christian Traditionalist.'

This includes Love of Nation (which is ethnic, linguistic, and religious, not civic. Blood and Soil.), Love of Neighbor (again, primarily ethnic), Love of Order (rule of the majority, not making the exception the rule), Love of Justice (a rejection of the chimera and lie of 'equality,' yet an genuine desire for justice, especially for any marginalized, mistreated, or powerless).

This includes Love of Christ and a desire for the establishment and maintenance of Christian Law and morality. Adjudicated as much as possible by local elders, men, with Justice and Christian Mercy and Love as their guides.

Politically this means you are a monarchist, a Christian Monarchist. The Christian monarch is to live an exemplary life, protecting the common people from foreign threats and from the domestic threats posed by oligarchs who have amassed wealth and want ever-more power. They should be forced to serve the King and the people in warfare, for the privilege of having lives of relative luxury and ease. For the privilege of not toiling like the common man, for living with wealth and power afforded to him by the people, the King will have great responsibilities to his people, to protect them from foreign and domestic powers which would corrupt and/or enslave the people.

While you do not engage in 'revolution' to establish a monarchy, or any other political system, you still work diligently to establish Christian governance and ultimately a Christian Monarchy within your home, towns, and lands. Within your own community, tribe, and nation. First and foremost within your heart, then also your minds and bodies.

While you are never part of any 'revolution,' you will fight to protect the innocent, to protect Christians' bodies and souls from the designs of the Evil One and those who serve him. This will mean offensive action if necessary. Even preventative, against our greatest enemies who have proven themselves to be untrustworthy and snakes. They are guaranteed to betray the Christian, the patient, forgiving nature of the Christian. We don't have to wait for that to happen with some of them, because we have known them for hundreds of years by now. We can protect ourselves and our loved ones, fellow Christians, and we are called to do so, we MUST do so, out of Love of Neighbor and Love of Justice and Love of Nation.

This is said and done, all of it, unapologetically.

Blogger Akulkis June 16, 2020 12:18 PM  

>> I suggest that rather than recite more civnattery dogma, you ask yourself this question: if what you believe is true, then why was the very elite that engineered the present situation planning to evacuate to China?

And the follow-up question to that: Why did they abandon the evacuate to China plan?

The answer to both of those questions is quite instructive.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd June 16, 2020 12:18 PM  

FrankNorman wrote:Because you can get to be a member of any nation that will accept you as such.
You'll have to stop insisting you are other, drop the hyphen, drop the connections to the old country and the outsiders.

People who have assimilated have no other identity, no other memories.

Blogger carnaby June 16, 2020 12:22 PM  

Because you can get to be a member of any nation that will accept you as such.

This guy, we accept this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI9ZhOYq8BQ

Blogger Akulkis June 16, 2020 12:45 PM  

>> Not sure what I am missing.

Well, to begin with, the point.

Blogger Jose Miguel June 16, 2020 12:45 PM  

@59 Jacksonian Grouch

do you hate the USA?

No, I see it as an object lesson how the somewhat less revolutionary Girondists were wrong too. And why one should actively Inquisite Masons and never have separation of Church and State.

@54

Needless to say, nothing you wrote matters/carries import in anything I do, say or believe -- and if you don't like it, well I guess that's just tough cookies for you.

Gamma tell 1. Why comment here on our hosts site then?

Post an article with weekend-diversion-how-to-argue as the title, as if our host doesn't know the art of the argument. Gamma tell 2.

@68

It looks like your incredibly stupid and petty viscious insults are how you generate clicks for your site

I know I come from a population with an average IQ of 84, I prefer spending time with men with that IQ than a midwit. At least the average man in my tribe humbly recognizes he isn't that bright.

I am born here, a Native American

Which tribe? Even a Hispanic mutt like me knows which native tribe my ancestry comes from.

I took an Oath, to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign & domestic

The constitution of a nation is the people, the document is an expression of those people.

but if your attacks ever came close to threatening me or mine in a dangerous and real way,

So you're not American.

before G-D

So you're (((Hispanic))) or an acolyte of (((Hispanics))). Sephardi convert Tomás de Torquemada was always right.

Blogger VD June 16, 2020 12:58 PM  

How did Alric and the German tribes go from the sacking of Rome to where they are now?

Methodically killing the barbaric problem children in their midst for one thousand years. It's doable, it just takes a long time and very disciplined ruthlessness.

Blogger Jose Miguel June 16, 2020 1:02 PM  

@64 Ranger

But when (Vox) says it's impossible to have such a society that actually assimilates immigrants, even from different races, I'm inclined to disagree. I believe Brazil is exactly that society, and there are several sociological and historical studies by Brazilian scholars who, realizing this uniqueness of Brazil, try to understand what are the reasons for it.

Brazil has always had a de facto caste system that is slightly softer than Hindu India. Caste systems are effective at holding diverse groups of people together. It has the 1st class, 2nd class, 3rd class citizens, etc. clearly defined.

The one difference with Brazil compared to India is that a less well adjusted white person marries down the caste ladder, "bleaching" the lower caste over time, and the few Intelligent Well Socialized Black/Native people marry up the caste ladder, slowly darkening the top. This has happened throughout Latin America in general.

Assuming no immigrants, I don't know how long it would take for Brazil to homogenize because of how big it is. Paraguay in comparison completely homogenized in 4 generations at the end of a barrel of a gun of forced mestizaje, while Colombia with it's historically voluntary mestizaje, with little migration, it'll be at least another 500 years before it is homogenized. It took 2200 years to create the Han ethnicity, I suspect something similar for the various Latin countries as a whole.

The Portuguese, even before they started settling Brazil, were already, by European standards, very mixed...and being a tiny country trying to colonize the entire world, it was natural for them to intermingle with the natives

The mixing primarily was because the Portuguese, like my Spanish ancestors, didn't bring women. It was primarily single men or estranged husbands like Cortez going adventuring, whereas in America it was whole families immigrating to the New World. Young men with high enough T to go exploring another continent are especially horny, and despite the Catholic church's original attempts at preventing race-mixing, most of these men weren't monk material.

Blogger Unknown June 16, 2020 1:07 PM  

But they unconsciously still subscribe or are biased by their Lutheranism? Other than genes, a foundation in Lutheranism is the only thing they have in common, other than superficial last names. But, good insight, I doubt that anyone has deeply researched these two groups. Or it could be deep indoctrination by globalist media and education.

Blogger PaulSacramento June 16, 2020 1:11 PM  

Your genes will determine:
Height, hair colour, eye colour, intellect, physical prowess, personalities, behaviour and more.
You can understand how that leads to tribalism and culture.

Blogger Unknown June 16, 2020 1:17 PM  

Disingenuous comparison, he is american because he was born and educated and socialized in America. I assume you were not born, educated or sociakized in Italy. If you were, then I apologize, but that makes you a bad Italian for denying your roots.

Blogger Kingly Gift June 16, 2020 1:18 PM  

"to each nation and tribe their own land, their own laws, and their own culture."

Amazingly, Vox's position is the one that actually values the God ordained diversity of the human species. Showing once again that SJWs always project. It is they who want to destroy all diversity while claiming that "diversity is our strength."

I know my statement could be misunderstood as me saying "the SJWs are the real racists." The difference is that so called "racists" in this sense are actually imperialists. As is abundantly clear, both progressives and neoconned-cuckservatives are just 2 different sides of the same imperialist coin. Vox's position is against empire of any kind. Therefore, his position is the only good, and beautiful, and true approach to have on the question of diversity of tribes/nations/races. Furthermore, "liberty" in it's ancient usage always meant the the freedom from being subjugated by another people. So in this pre-enlightenment sense of "liberty," Vox's position is the only true "libertarian" position.

Blogger Damelon Brinn June 16, 2020 1:20 PM  

I was trying to lay out that many people, from many different countries the world over, still come here and become Americans in that way

You can lay it out as many times as you want, but it won't make it true. That may have been true of some people in the distant past. Some of my ancestors came here and immediately tried to fit in, making sure their kids learned English and Americanizing the spelling of their last name. Yet they still carried much of their culture with them, which is why we have Octoberfests here. But that hasn't happened in any significant numbers in at least a century. And it's not going to, because there is no longer a single dominant culture that forces everyone to fit into it.

Blogger Damelon Brinn June 16, 2020 1:34 PM  

"G-D" is always a dead giveaway.

Maybe the biggest one there is.

If you bred ligers with ligers (they are not infertile), you could pretty quickly build a new population (a new ethnos,

For very large values of "quickly," maybe.

Let's say you could get a bunch of half-white/half-black people to go off and found Mulattostan and only breed with each other. In theory, maybe over a millennia or three they would create a new "people" with a shared genetic code and culture. But as a practical matter, that's never going to happen, so I'm not sure why it matters. For one thing, you would still have a wide mix of races on the half-white side, with Germans and Italians and so on, so you wouldn't really have a homogeneous mix, anymore than "white" is now.

I also wonder whether they would produce a homogeneous brown color like the "one race" people fantasize about, or would they tend to breed back to one ancestor or another the way hybrid vegetables do. I'm not a geneticist, but it seems like species and sub-species are pretty resilient and tend to keep surfacing even when mixed over a long period. Almost like they were created that way, and didn't just happen.

Anonymous Anonymous June 16, 2020 1:38 PM  

@47 Nathan: " Not sure what I am missing."

You use the very words that the ubiquitous "a mixed race individual" at Amren did in response to my comment condemning miscegenation. You might as well be he, because your attitude is one and the same. Lions and tigers do not mate in the wild, because they have their own territory and mate with their own species. They have been crossbred, in captivity and for the amusement of various 'people,' to create Lygers and Tigons. Are these some new 'species'? Of course not; they are a mixture of the two originals. They do not represent something new and/or improved. Merely because certain genes predominate in certain mixed-race individuals (i.e. example of Kidada and Rashida Jones, one obviously a Mulatto and the other possesses more overt White physiognomy) does not alter their basic genetic admixture.
tl;dr: You are trying to square a circle for personal reasons. It cannot be done and you merely demonstrate your innate foolishness in doing so. Just stop.

Anonymous Anonymous June 16, 2020 1:50 PM  

@85 Vox: "Methodically killing the barbaric problem children in their midst for one thousand years. It's doable, it just takes a long time and very disciplined ruthlessness."

This. The passing of centuries plus social opprobrium plus generous application of banning and/or the death penalty = long, drawn out eugenics. Which ought not to be a dirty word. The rare NAXALT doesn't change the mean. 'Judging' individuals on a personal level may function in direct interpersonal relations. Doing so on a larger societal level is lethal and the results are well warranted. Or, once again, Diversity+Proximity=War.

Blogger J Van Stry June 16, 2020 1:52 PM  

The only way through this, that I see, that would end with a still functioning 'United States of America' would be a return to the principle of 'States Rights'.

A strong return. Return to having Senators appointed by the states and not elected.
Return to each state being able to do its own thing.

Then we could have states that were 'ethnically' or 'tribally' based. Of course this would mean some states would have to be split up, and we'd end up with some large changes in some areas.

Each state could then be as different as they wanted, as long as they agreed to support the whole and guarantee certain basic rights and laws so that all could function together at a 'meta' level. Those that did not, would have to go of course.

The odds of something like this happening and being successful, I believe to be so slim, so unlikely, that I don't think there will be a USA 30 years from now. And if there is, it will looking nothing like what exists today.

Honestly at times I'm not so sure there will be a USA in 7 years. If you think this election is bad, just wait until the next one, which will be one hell of a lot worse.

Blogger Jack Amok June 16, 2020 1:56 PM  

With every race, the lower classes are the significant part of the problem. The lower classes of Europeans are extremely challenging. But at least we can police them to some extent.

This is one big reason diversity + proximity = war, and why civnattery is an impossible dream.

People of one race - no matter how much they may aspire to be like their host race - find it very hard to tolerate police of a different race disciplining people who look like them. Blacks are victimized by Black criminals, but when Obama talked about "if I had a son, he'd look like that," he was for once in his sham of a life telling the truth.

We can police our own dregs. But when we try to police someone else's dregs, they get angry. All the street theater we see going on right now is manufactured, but it's manufactured on top of real resentment that even prosperous Blacks feel when one of their dregs is policed by a White man.

Civilization can't exist without controlling thugs. Diversity prevents that, proximity requires it, ergo war.

Blogger Tars Tarkas June 16, 2020 2:00 PM  

KeaponLaffin wrote:I say let the best and brightest in Haiti, for example, stay in Haiti to make it a better nation. We don't need them and it's a diservice to Haiti to take their best and brightest away from them.

Not to mention that even the talented 1/10th of 1% are not us. They are not like us and they do not want to be like us. They can be themselves in Haiti and we can be ourselves here. No worries about being wraysist or setting up systems that are systemically wraysist or worrying that our words will somehow upset them or that their children will be shot by one of our cops.

Even when the best of another group shows up, it just breeds anger and resentment on both sides. Just look at the relationship between whites and Jews. From a crime and IQ point of view, they are the model minority. We could not ask for a better minority. Yet, look at what we have created with these people and what the outcome has been. They are an outside group and they know it and behave like it with their in-group preferences.
NO! God or nature has made us different people. We can be friends without living together.

Blogger Joe Smith June 16, 2020 2:00 PM  

your opinion, your low-bred attacks on the person, matter NOTHING

Those things matter so little to you that you're frothing at the mouth in rage at your perception of them. The fact that you are apparently completely unable to see past your identity conflict isn't Vox's fault. You spent 24 years in the military, I'll stipulate honorably for the sake of argument, in defense of a lie. Sucks, but there it is. I spent time in the military defending a lie too. C'est la vie.

Blogger maniacprovost June 16, 2020 2:00 PM  

>Interbreeding two people of different ethnicities creates another new ethnicity

>Interbreeding will result in one United ethnicity

Choose one

Blogger Nate73 June 16, 2020 2:12 PM  

I have a libertarian black friend who I chat with sometimes, an argument he brings up I can't refute is Black Wall St and the subsequent war with the neighboring whites. My guess is since the city was having success at least as early as 1905 then the Regression to the Mean came in and by 1921 had already begun the process of deteriorating.

Blogger urthshu June 16, 2020 2:13 PM  

>> and so I am not sure how they could not potentially create a new ethnicity (not a race though, because again, these "mixed breeds" can also have fraternal twins where one is white and the other black). Not sure what I am missing.

You're not missing a lot on the biological level. Socially, culturally there are mixed 'peoples' or tribes that exist like the Mulattoes of New Orleans or the Mestizos and Metis. They formed their own separate identities and set themselves apart from their parent races through class, economics, strife, alliances, language and legal status. History may repeat but the key is they separated and flourished in that fashion to the best of their ability.

Speaking towards the idea of American Blacks returning to Africa: Its been tried of course, and the Americo-Liberians are more yet another rival tribe than accepted there. It would actually be the easiest place to gain expat citizenship for an American Black but God knows nobody wants any part of it.

Blogger Attila is my bro June 16, 2020 2:18 PM  

"#2 Here are several Truths..."

Good Lord! That's at least a 12 kw bowtie. How can I harness that energy to heat my pool?

Blogger T.L. Ciottoli June 16, 2020 2:19 PM  

Jose Miguel wrote:I am grateful that I married, granted not within my own tribe as there were none where I've lived in my adulthood, but within my race, as my wife has been down to move to Colombia since our second date, and fits quite well in the culture the last time we visited.

Congrats. Sound reasonings there. I liked Colombia the one time I visited. Very influenced by the Gringo, for better or for worse. For better: Most American breakfast in all of Latin America. A bit more pep in their step in terms of service. For worse: the Almighty Dollar. And probably CIA and US Government money and goons everywhere.

Today I understand clearly that many past American generations made a deal with the devil. They traded material comfort for Virtue. It's that simple. The same can be said for many, if not most, of the recent immigrants who have come to America, abandoning the difficult fight for their own lands and peoples. Searching for the easier path to material comfort and security.

It's like I told my libertarian friend years ago, who had married a Chilean girl and was rambling on about how more immigrants like her and her family should be let in and it's racist to not let them in. I told him that those immigrants have no idea about our history, they have no family history they talk about relating to our wars for freedom, they do not grow up hearing about the wars their fathers and grandfathers and great-grandfathers fought in for freedom and for these lands. They have no clue about our history and values. And that they very well may have no notion of freedom at all. And the only fact you know about them is that they are quite literally running from that fight for Justice and Liberty in their own lands. And what, I asked him, makes you think they will fight for it here when things go sour? There is zero evidence that they will.

He had never thought of that before.

Blogger James Dixon June 16, 2020 2:27 PM  

> Not sure what I am missing.

Dogs and wolves can interbreed and the results are usually fertile. Would you take a wolf as a pet?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 16, 2020 2:28 PM  

Nathan wrote:Not sure what I am missing.
Yes, new ethnicities are formed, are forming, even now. Just as new breeds of dogs/cattle/chicken are being developed all the time. In the absence of selective breeding there are two means by which this happens.
The first is subdivision. An ethnic group is divided and the subgroups are isolated, by geography, religion, class, dialect, or just by simple in-group preference. Eventually the groups become estranged enough they no longer see themselves as being the same nation. A prime example would be the Koreans and the Japanese.
The other, and more common, way to create a new ethnicity is the merging of multiple ethnic groups. The English as an example, were formed from the merger of Angles, Saxons, Welsh, Pretanni and Brittano-Romans.
It takes only two things, many generations of interbreeding, and ruthless culling. During the Anglo-Saxon period of English history, anyone who did not follow the cultural norms of the Germanic conquerors was killed out of hand.
So if you're willing to simply kill whatever percentage of Blacks that do not conform to White cultural norms, then yes, in a few hundred years, there could be new ethnicity that incorporates both. But it's would be a lot less than 13% Black genetics.

Blogger Unknown June 16, 2020 2:36 PM  

Do you consider yourself an American by those standards?

Blogger boogeyman June 16, 2020 2:48 PM  

Politics is downstream of culture. Culture is downstream of demographics, which is to say, ethnicity.

Different people are different. The blank slate is a lie, as is Magic Dirt. If we are blank slates, it would mean we are nothing more than easily re-programmed consumer units; soulless meat robots. It would also call into question why those DNA tests can tell you where your ancestors came from. Different people will always be at least a bit uncomfortable living with one another the same way non-related room mates are never completely comfortable living together. Different groups are happier living in their own land for the same reason people are happier when they live in their own homes, own their homes, and don't have to share their homes with room mates.

Leftists want "Fairness".
Libertarians want freedom.
Most conservatives just want to be left alone in a world gone mad.

I want cultural stability, for the same reason a health conscious person watches what he eats and exorcises regularly. He does this to achieve the maximum healthy life span. I want to see my country, my nation, to have the healthiest and longest possible life span. That means I want people to have their own homelands, and I want people to live in those homelands. Anything else results in the room mates at each other's throat.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 16, 2020 2:58 PM  

Unknown wrote:Disingenuous comparison, he is American because he was born and educated and socialized in America.
My nephew was born in a VW microbus. Does that make him German?

Blogger Stilicho June 16, 2020 3:38 PM  

That you, Gonzo?

Blogger mgh June 16, 2020 3:41 PM  

#86 Jose "Caste systems are effective at holding diverse groups of people together." Kind of like the South up until the Civil Rights Act? When everyone knows their place, diversity + proximity + caste delays war?

Blogger Chris Ritchie June 16, 2020 4:06 PM  

@95 The only way through this, that I see, that would end with a still functioning 'United States of America' would be a return to the principle of 'States Rights'.

A strong return. Return to having Senators appointed by the states and not elected.
Return to each state being able to do its own thing.


Good luck with that. We already tried that. Twice. And the northern states found it constitutional to say first that you can't secede and do what you want and then later, that you can't associate with who you want. Never mind that left to our own, most people associate with those of the same race. Ever see a church on Sunday morning? I had to endure forced integration in the south, being bussed to those wonderfully equal city schools. What happened? I immediately fell in with in rough crowds. School work suffered. I was headed down a bad path. My family was having none of it. We moved literally two months later to another county.

Blogger Chris Ritchie June 16, 2020 4:16 PM  

It's like I told my libertarian friend years ago, who had married a Chilean girl and was rambling on about how more immigrants like her and her family should be let in and it's racist to not let them in. I told him that those immigrants have no idea about our history, they have no family history they talk about relating to our wars for freedom, they do not grow up hearing about the wars their fathers and grandfathers and great-grandfathers fought in for freedom and for these lands. They have no clue about our history and values. And that they very well may have no notion of freedom at all. And the only fact you know about them is that they are quite literally running from that fight for Justice and Liberty in their own lands. And what, I asked him, makes you think they will fight for it here when things go sour? There is zero evidence that they will.


This. We are to go into (key being "GO") all nations and make disciples. Not invite them into our own house. Recall the Samaritan cared for the person where he was; he did not invite him to move in, or even move next door.

If you think through it, this how the Christian West formed. Christians stayed, endured persecution, patiently built towns, communities and countries by following God's ways. It trickled up until entire countries were Christian. This is The Way.

Blogger megabar June 16, 2020 4:27 PM  

> Assuming no immigrants, I don't know how long it would take for Brazil to homogenize because of how big it is.

I'm guessing assortative mating brings its own problems.

You'll create a distinct over- and underclass, and even if those groups aren't visually distinct as different races are, there are ways to identify oneself. Accents in England, for example.

There are, perhaps, ways to manage this situation, but it requires honesty and loyalty: Honesty, to realize why the outcomes will be different between classes, and loyalty, so that the elites don't screw over the lower classes (i.e. globalism).

Finally, realize that homogenization does not solve every problem. Homogenization without selection likely increases the variability within a group, and moves the average traits. These can both be good or bad.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants June 16, 2020 5:12 PM  

We are not the same, Mr. Mystery Meat. There's a difference between an American and a US citizen.
You are the latter.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants June 16, 2020 5:17 PM  

"The whites run the banks."

THOSE. AREN'T. WHITES.

How is it you all read thisb blog
daily and still don't understand the difference between whites and what is known around here as the "tiny hats?"

Sheesh.

Also, been to Jamaica several times. Quit going after around 2005, because it's too dangerous and not worth the chance.

Blogger Tars Tarkas June 16, 2020 5:19 PM  

Nate73 wrote:I have a libertarian black friend who I chat with sometimes, an argument he brings up I can't refute is Black Wall St and the subsequent war with the neighboring whites. My guess is since the city was having success at least as early as 1905 then the Regression to the Mean came in and by 1921 had already begun the process of deteriorating.

Black Wall St is complete and utter nonsense. The term is a lie. It was not a center of banking and commerce and international finance.
It was (we suppose) a functional black neighborhood.
Almost everything else you hear or read about "Black Wall Street" is utter nonsense.
The thing that killed this neighborhood was simply the undoing of the artificial constraints that created it. Blacks were forced to business with other blacks. Once that was lifted, the black businesses went under because blacks went elsewhere.
I'm sure the riot didn't help. But even the progressives admit that once the restrictions were lifted, what was left folded. Of course the reason they had the riots is because that black boy dindu nuffin. It is always thus. All they need to know is the accused is black and the victim white.
But Black Wall Street is about as real as Wakanda.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants June 16, 2020 5:22 PM  

You are making English, Indian, Mexican, and Chinese children?!?

Bless their hearts. It's hard enough being 2 mixed races, but 4?

Also, you are in West VA? Why?

Blogger Rattlesnake_Kid June 16, 2020 5:25 PM  

Jacksonian Grouch wrote:V
> I am born here, a Native American;

> I have served Honorably as a Military Veteran, two services, 24 years;

> I took an Oath, to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign & domestic;

> That Oath has no expiration;

> The Founding Fathers are mine, more so even than they are yours;

> your opinion, your low-bred attacks on the person, matter NOTHING;

> but if your attacks ever came close to threatening me or mine in a dangerous and real way, beyond petty, viscious words that you so love to use, you can be assured that I can - and will - defend these in a manner consistent before G-D, Capt. John Parker and the 2A.



Oof, the denial runs deep. I can't blame the guy, given the skin he put into something that was never his to begin with. That's a jagged pill.

'G-d', EST.

Blogger T.L. Ciottoli June 16, 2020 5:30 PM  

Chris Ritchie wrote:This. We are to go into (key being "GO") all nations and make disciples.

Good rhetoric. "Where does it say 'invite' all nations? It doesn't, it says 'go into' all nations."

Anyone who says or does otherwise, is not Christian.

Blogger Wild Man June 16, 2020 5:58 PM  

What about the genetic principle of heterosis (hybrid vigor)?

Blogger Dan Karelian June 16, 2020 6:14 PM  

@71
Even besides the behavioral selection over generations, modern day Germans, English, Benelux, French d'Oil and Northern Italians are not genetically the same groups of Germanic tribes that conquered those areas.

Genetic samples from the early pure breed Germanic tribes, be it Gothic, Vandal, Angle, Saxon, Langobard or otherwise, are all genetically within the modern day Danish cluster.
Exactly what you would expect knowing where the Germanic migrations began.

Blogger megabar June 16, 2020 6:57 PM  

> What about the genetic principle of heterosis (hybrid vigor)?

There is something to it, but it's misunderstood. Hybrids can, in some cases, avoid disease by avoiding bad combinations of recessive genes, and they can also outperform, in some cases, by bringing together novel combinations of genes previously separated by ancestry -- genes that might combine well.

People talk about hybrid vigor because it does apply to pets. But that's because pet breeds are highly inbred, which does not apply to people.

Overall, there's no magic. A given hybrid individual can receive the worst of both parents. Groups of hybrids will generally average out to somewhere between the two ancestries. I am not aware of any reason to suspect that a hybrid group will have any special advantage.


Blogger SamuraiJeff June 16, 2020 7:09 PM  

Another excellent post vox day, this is why I follow you. What would you say of intigration into a race or culture like the American race? I believe strongly in the constitution and the ideals of the founding fathers despite being a mutt. Is intigration a factor in the future of American culture??

Blogger SirHamster June 16, 2020 7:21 PM  

Nathan wrote:I don't think I have what you are referring to as identify complications (other than being obsessed with my Christian identity, and concerned with passages like Rev. 7:9 and Acts 17:29 in relation to this question), as both myself and my wife are what everyone would call "white" (from about 10 different European ethnicities between us).
Having ancestors from 10 different ethnicities makes you identity complicated.

Your thinking that you are not is denial.

People without identity complications have ancestors from one ethnicity. "White" is not a nation.

Your original question:
Nathan wrote:Are children of a "mixed-race" couple who are different colors (like one white and the other black) different races? They can certainly be the same ethnicity, right?
They are "mixed-race", as you described. They don't belong to either parent's race, and they themselves have trouble being considered their own race, because their genetics are not stable and they may not look similar to each other due to DNA randomness.

If they had their own ethnicity, you would call them that instead of using "mixed-race". Given time and chance, some mixed-race combinations can become a self-sustained group identity. Not all do, and those children will have a more challenging future in the coming years to choose assimilation or destruction.

One more note - fertility is a spectrum, and some mixed race combinations have trouble with fertility.

Blogger SirHamster June 16, 2020 7:51 PM  

mgh wrote:When everyone knows their place, diversity + proximity + caste delays war?
Caste reduces proximity, reducing the probability of war. But the caste system requires maintenance through ruthless enforcement. If it breaks down, like SA Apartheid or American segregation, you're back to proximity. And that leads to ...

Caste is like a dam. It's possible. There are benefits to it. But broken dams are dangerous things.

Blogger Jose Miguel June 16, 2020 8:15 PM  

@110 mgh

Kind of like the South up until the Civil Rights Act?

Yes, that Act guaranteed the death of the American Empire far sooner than it would have been otherwise.

@103 Tetro

I liked Colombia the one time I visited. Very influenced by the Gringo, for better or for worse...For worse: the Almighty Dollar. And probably CIA and US Government money and goons everywhere.

The cartels are still under the Cocaine Import Agency. The collapse of the American Empire may finally give Colombia reprieve from the trade started and monopolized by the British Crown in the early 20th century. When Britain lost their empire, the OSS, soon to be CIA, took it all over.

Pray for me brother, Colombia has the second fewest Orthodox congregations of all nations in the world. Third fewest after the founding of the Republic of CHAZ.

Today I understand clearly that many past American generations made a deal with the devil.

Yep, it's why I pray for Americans, the children shouldn't be punished for the sins of their fathers, especially when it was chosen by the elite of the nation, not by the people of the nation.

@113 megabar

You'll create a distinct over- and underclass, and even if those groups aren't visually distinct as different races are, there are ways to identify oneself. Accents in England, for example.

This is true all throughout Latin America. The Spanish dialects spoken throughout the America's has more variability between them than between Danish, Norwegian and Swedish apparently.

Homogenization without selection likely increases the variability within a group, and moves the average traits.

Thus the death penalty as the Germanic Tribes did. Apostolic Christianity is the best option in that regard.

Blogger Damelon Brinn June 16, 2020 8:16 PM  

What about the genetic principle of heterosis (hybrid vigor)?

Well, when you mix people of different races, sooner or later they fight vigorously. Other than that, I don't see the relevance.

Blogger Revelation Means Hope June 16, 2020 8:21 PM  

Same, descended from Revolutionary soldiers AND Native American tribes. Yet I am a mongrel.
If I could, I'd send all back who came after 1840.

Blogger Wild Man June 16, 2020 9:24 PM  

megabar - your comment:

"Overall, there's no magic. A given hybrid individual can receive the worst of both parents. Groups of hybrids will generally average out to somewhere between the two ancestries. I am not aware of any reason to suspect that a hybrid group will have any special advantage."

Yes. But, as well, hybrid vigor can reinvigorate the entire genome over time. Downstream winners and losers in the genetic lottery (as you say), .... but winners tend to prevail in the long-run (natural and sexual Darwinian selection).

Blogger Jose Miguel June 17, 2020 12:37 AM  

@128 Revelation Means Hope

If I could, I'd send all back who came after 1840.

There is a man who loves his nation. May God grant you mercy and success in round 2 like He did the Eastern Roman Empire.

Just instruct your descendants to not to take on debt or raise sky high taxes trying to reconquer everything. Bankrupting the nation to restore previous borders makes one vulnerable to attack. In the case of ERE, that was Islam. How much better would we all be if the ERE was satisfied with taking back just half of the land it reconquered at it's greatest extent leaving enough army strength to crush Abu Bakr?

Blogger wreckage June 17, 2020 12:56 AM  

A couple of points here regarding culture and conflict.

1. @53 Culture evolves to adapt to preference. So it may be that a Bantu culture does better at controlling Bantu misbehaviour, as a Celtic one for Celts.

2. A Bantu culture can never achieve its potential when its cognitive elite is being ruthlessly headhunted by the (for example) Celts or Anglo Americans.

3. People groups can form new boundaries and new homogeneous nations in new locations. This is a peaceful resolution to group conflict.

4. Forcing groups to mingle prevents that peaceful resolution.

Blogger T.L. Ciottoli June 17, 2020 5:28 AM  

Jose Miguel wrote:Pray for me brother, Colombia has the second fewest Orthodox congregations of all nations in the world.

Will do brotha. Feeling alone in the West as an Orthodox Christian is a common feeling, but I am getting used to it. Maybe even overcoming it, by God's grace. Reading the lives of the saints every day with the Church calendar helps. And if you do have a core group of diligent, committed faithful in your parish, wherever you might be, even just 5-6 people, sometimes that's all you need for your entire walk unto your day of judgment. Moving to a historically Orthodox nation really won't help much until you pick up the language, which could take years depending on your situation. Even then, you are often likely only to find a core group of faithful in any parish. This is what I've learned in my travels and struggles as an Orthodox man in both the West and East.

I like to think of how alone Phillip Ludwell must have felt, yet he persevered. As well as many of the saints, and New Martyrs. We can gather their strength.

Colombia is ripe for Orthodoxy. There are a great many humble people there, just wishing to live simple, secure lives. The Roman Church has zero authority anymore in the lives or minds of anyone in the world, for many obvious reasons. Their traditionalists nobly hang on, but more than half would covert pretty quickly if they would allow themselves to consider the historical and theological facts. If they were exposed to Orthodoxy in any way. The common people are desperate for Truth and to be brought into the Body of Christ, away from the secular materialism and nihilism that has replaced Romanism.

Godspeed.

Blogger JamesB.BKK June 17, 2020 5:31 AM  

I'm not saying a lot more bikes will need to be returned. But I'm not not saying it.

Blogger Avalanche June 17, 2020 9:15 AM  

@64 Brazil: "The unbelievably high urban violence is somewhat result of this diversity"

Somewhat result? How about nearly entirely the result! Do you just have no memory or knowledge of what a uniform nation, without DIEversity, is like?!

95% White America not only did not have "unbelievably high urban violence"; those not-Americans who were here were controlled both socially, and by promise and deliverance of harsh punishment for 'breaking the culture.'

Even today, as White flee and flee some more to all- or majority-White neighborhoods to ESCAPE DIEversity and its ubiquitous 'high violence.' Once we get to an all-White neighborhood, we can relax, let down our guard, and enjoy life as White make it, until the dusky swarms show up.

Blogger JamesB.BKK June 17, 2020 9:16 AM  


"I am thoroughly impressed with this guy's questions since most of the time any email more than a paragraph in length is a gamma writing a wall of text."

Was the follow up disclosed? The first volley may not give a complete picture.

Blogger Avalanche June 17, 2020 9:29 AM  

@68 "I am born here, a Native American;"

Here's your answer:
https://pics.me.me/this-is-nahir-nahir-is-born-in-germany-nahir-is-47095806.png

Blogger Avalanche June 17, 2020 9:41 AM  

@78 "Ligers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liger) and tigons show that lions and tigers are not as separate as most think them to be."

Hey Nathan? Please think for a minute about your underlying premise(s): "'Species' are what I was taught in school. I was also taught the defining line between species is fertile interbreeding."

You are apparently struggling with a definition from 1686 when John Ray published Historia plantarum species, etc. [In Latin].

And a definition that is being found, more and more, to not work -- especially as we get genetic data on animals! AND a definition contaminated with equality DIEversity we are the world kumbaya for the human "species."

So very much of our "knowledge" has been disassembled -- but not yet recreated / refined without contamination of SJW tampering.

Blogger megabar June 17, 2020 10:14 AM  

> but winners tend to prevail in the long-run (natural and sexual Darwinian selection).

Yes, this can be true, and a fair point. But it depends on the selection of both groups prior to mixing, and after. It's true that separation allows the possibility of different beneficial genes to emerge, but there's no guarantee this will happen, either.

Benefiting from this requires a _much_ different fertility pattern than we currently engage in.

Blogger Avalanche June 17, 2020 10:24 AM  

@105 "The first is subdivision. An ethnic group is divided and the subgroups are isolated, by geography, religion, class, dialect, or just by simple in-group preference. Eventually the groups become estranged enough they no longer see themselves as being the same nation."

If you would see the result in a more ... direct genetic way: Bonobos and Chimps.

Bonobos ended up isolated by a river; the SJW (and real) biologists and anthropologists agree that the bonobos have become a wonderful example of how humans COULD be a peaceable, negotiating, non-authoritarian, kinder-gentler version of primate. 'Cause the chimps, more entangled in territory and breeding rights and fighting off enemies, have stayed violent.

No one is "educating" bonobos to be gentle. No one is socializing chimps to be "racist" and violent. It's majorly genetic.

For fun, I'll throw in fascinating, brilliant, but hugely SJW, Robert Sapolski and his baboon troop that turned "peaceable."

Here's from 2004: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2004/04/kinder-gentler-baboon

And if you can read past the peace-love-dove viewpoint: https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/peace_among_primates

ONE 'tribe,' changed by a catastrophe, is supposedly the exemplar for all primates everywhere?! "Savannah Autonomous Region"? Yeah: N=1... proof!

Blogger Jack Amok June 17, 2020 12:27 PM  

Culture evolves to adapt to preference. So it may be that a Bantu culture does better at controlling Bantu misbehaviour, as a Celtic one for Celts.

Exactly. Look at Ferguson. Black guy walking down the middle of the street high, cop tells him to get out of the road and instead of complying, he fights with the cop and ends up getting shot.

White people look at that and say "too bad he died, but what an idiot. When the cops show up, that's the sign to cool it. If he'd done that everything would've been okay." Black people look at it and say "he may have been acting out, but he dindu nuffin to deserving being shot. If the cops weren't always hassling him, he'd still be alive."

Both are right, according to their own lights. Black people are willing to live with a higher level of background chaos because they know they have family members who will inevitably be part of generating a lot of chaos, so trying to police it tightly will result in lots of fights and deaths.

White people don't want a lot of background chaos because a) they don't need to tolerate it, most Whites can control their impulses, and b) it's very dangerous because while White people have long, long fuses, when they go off, they really go off and turn into spectacularly dangerous individuals.

Instinctively people want a culture that fits their genetic predispositions.

Blogger Wild Man June 17, 2020 2:52 PM  

megabar - in regards to your comment:

"Yes, this can be true, and a fair point. But it depends on the selection of both groups prior to mixing, and after. It's true that separation allows the possibility of different beneficial genes to emerge, but there's no guarantee this will happen, either. Benefiting from this requires a _much_ different fertility pattern than we currently engage in."

Mmmmm .... the scenario I was referencing when I suggested that hybrid-vigor breeding operations(by way of cross-breeding with another cohort with genetic variability vs. the genetics of the dominant group) can bestow greater invigorated adaptability, for the entire genome, over the long haul, by way of natural and sexual selection processes, ..... what is meant by the 'entire genome'? Well, that would be the genome of the 'target cohort' you may be referencing. Before the mass movement of people so freely (as we have now, vis-a-vis what was normal during most of human evolution) ..... the target cohort could mean 'tribe'. Tribes can be so genetically invigorated by the introduction of genetic effects produced by way of hybrid vigor. The target cohort could also mean 'proto-nation', later in history. The target cohort could also mean 'nation-state', even later in history (where we are now in my estimation). The concept of 'race' is indirectly affected by these lower-level (i.e. - more narrowly defined) hybrid-vigor cross-breeding operations. Look - the idea here, with respect to hybrid-vigor improving the genome for each of these target cohorts, is that these changes don't swamp the underlying cultural order that stems from the target cohort's original genomic make-up. If there is said 'swamping', then we are not talking about hybrid-vigor anymore, but about genocide (unintended or otherwise)of the original cohort. So there is going to be a lot of controversy as to what level of cross-breeding will produce the optimum output of hybrid-vigor, for the target cohort. When it comes to comparing the races or people (or any of the more narrowly define target cohorts for that matter - tribes, proto-nations, and nation states), .... it may turn out that there are substantial differences in what the optimum level of cross-breeding would be, for each target cohort, to enrich that dominant target cohort by way of hybrid vigor, without swamping the dominant target cohort. I think all this will prove to be very complicated, as our understandings around genetics continues to improve.

Blogger Wild Man June 17, 2020 4:07 PM  

Otherwise, megabar - I'm not sure what you mean by your last sentence quoted above - "Benefiting from this requires a _much_ different fertility pattern than we currently engage in." What fertility pattern that we are currently engaged in, are you referencing? I think you probably mean that huge reductions in overall fertility occurring among most racial cohorts in western jurisdictions (but that overall fertility reduction is occurring in Japan and China too). Africa at present? The population growth there is booming. That's a quandary. You would hope that (from the appropriately selfish perspective of western nations), that we are importing superior people (i.e. - the best among their cohort) from non-western jurisdictions, and in the right numbers, so as to optimize hybrid-vigor for western cohorts, without swamping the culture. Nobody seems to talk about immigration policy in those terms anymore though (however, here in Canada, there was tacit acknowledgement among pretty much everybody, that that is what was intended by way of the federal immigration policies, until maybe 15 - 20 years ago, when it started to become gauche to mention it this way, when discussing immigration policy). Our immigration policies in Canada have been informed by the ideology of the likes of Charles Taylor. I weighed in with others on this (about Taylor's influence on Canadian immigration policy) a few years ago (but not here). Charles Taylor's ideology in this respect is a confounding influence because, though I think he would basically agree with much of what I have said here,..... he nevertheless had refused to therefore discuss Canada's immigration policy in terms of 'optimum level' of cross-breeding, so as to produce the optimum level of hybrid-vigor, for Canada (look - I know this would never fly even 15 or 20 years ago, talking about this in purely genetic terms, but it definitely was talked about in cultural terms, 15 or 20 years ago, with everybody knowing that culture is partially informed by genetics, back then). As such, what we have here in Canada, is just another variety of what occurs all over the west with regards to immigration policy. And that is obfuscationism. Everybody should be worried about this. The obfuscationism is everywhere, within every topic of public debate. So I don't disagree that what I like to refer to as the 'the corporatist-globalist neo-liberal western world order inclusive of the role neocons play in this vein', is the big problem (because this group controls the obfuscationism apparent over every topic of public debate).

To me ....the top obfuscationist narrative, that is by far the worst at this juncture, in terms of immediate effect (the potential for wonky Green New Deal policies being implemented, with some of this 'potential' already being realized, governmental-policy-wise, in many western jurisdictions), that has been widely promoted by these forces of obfuscation, is the idea that human-added atmospheric CO2 will prove catastrophic for mankind. It is quite easy to show this narrative is devoid of facts that would substantiate the claims (i.e. - it is more likely than not that 700 ppm of atmospheric CO2 may be a sweetspot that will save us from disaster (albeit temporarily – perhaps for the first 10,000 years or the normal 85,000 -90,000 year duration of the reglaciation leg of the overall deglaciation/reglaciation 100,000 year cycle) ….. from the upcoming natural slow-rolling progression towards the disaster of reglaciation, which would be imminent without the added atmospheric CO2, within a 2,000 year window, which is about the best resolution we are capable of in this regards to-date (by way of studies around Milankovitch cyclizations). Given our current level of understanding around this, the best predictions for the turning point, away from deglaciation, and towards reglaciation, under a non-anthropogenic scenario, is 1500AD - 3500AD.

Blogger Nate73 June 17, 2020 4:13 PM  

@116: I've never heard of that before, can you point me to where I can read about it? Most of the information I've found is scant and doesn't mention the economic state of the neighborhood, mostly it's the same kind of racial apologetics you see today ironically. And of course he dindu nuffin!

>Blacks were forced to business with other blacks. Once that was lifted, the black businesses went under because blacks went elsewhere.

Blogger Wild Man June 17, 2020 4:39 PM  

megabar - finishing the comment I started above ....

Also note that, though it is uncontroversial that the primary effects of adding atmospheric CO2, average-global-surface-temperature-wise, is for a 1.0 C increase in average global surface temperature, for each doubling of atmospheric CO2, nevertheless, the climate models are severely over-estimating the secondary effects of added atmospheric CO2 upon feedback loops featuring other earth variables. At 700 ppm we will not experience catastrophic warming, even if the nonanthropogenic cusp towards reglaciation ends up being closer to 3500 AD ..... i.e. - we know this because at the cusp of reglaciation, for all the past deglaciation/reglaciation cycles, and well past the cusp, atmospheric CO2 was initially still rising as the earth was cooling. The IPCC is incompetent (which is not surprising - the UN itself is incompetent). The IPCC has designed their network of studies so that the most critical parameter is never examined, and the most critical parameter to the whole climate change discussion is this - 'what are our best estimates of when the turning point away from the short duration deglaciation leg of the overall deglacation/reglacation cycle, would have occurred, without human added atmospheric CO2?'. Notice that the IPCC won't deal in that parameter. Why? It is only the most obvious question that should come up, given the state of mainstream consensus within mainstream geological science, prior to this whole climate change thing becoming a big thing in the early 1990's. Nothing much has changed with respect to the pre-climate-catastrophism state of geological science, since then ..... so the IPCC must obfuscate around that, in order to keep their false narrative alive. Weird. And just so easy to see (like – go read some geology textbooks). Yet most people don't see it. As time has gone on, it is just more and more people, overall, that believe in human-caused climate catastrophism, by way of added atmospheric CO2.

Now, .... all the growing obfuscationism around the topic of race & immigration ...... mmmm ... I gotta say .... if people can't get the obviousness of the obfuscationism around climate change (which they can't) .... how are we to expect the people will be able to see through all the rhetoric constantly being spouted on race issues, which is a much much more complex topic than climate change, with alot more uncertainty still apparent with respect to claims across the board (by both sides - both leftists, as well as those of the racial-puritan bent)? Not gonna happen.

Blogger Wild Man June 17, 2020 4:39 PM  

So what to do? Well - the real enemy (for every last person on earth really) is the growing influence of those that operate this 'corporatist-globalist neo-liberal western world order inclusive of the role neocons play in this vein'. On that front, .... these people need to be publicly shamed, derided .... made out to be the true enemy of the people they truly are, mercilessly, and for evermore (take pains to ensure this true narrative is never ever watered-down, as time unfolds). The current ongoing investigation of the false 'Trump as Putin stooge' narrative, and the extreme levels of perverse self-serving criminality practiced by Obama, Biden and Hillary Clinton leading up to the 2016 elections, around that narrative, and the 4 years of associated crap the electorate has had to put up with around that, well ..... not only do people need to go to jail, but, in a paint-by-numbers way, the general public needs to be shown that this was all tantamount to Obama/Biden/Clinton willing to instigate world war 3 with the Russians, in order to serve the false narrative, in order to serve their own very perverse and narrow selfish interests. Things are continuing to move on that front. I heard today that it looks like Guccifer 2.0 was actually a psych-op fomented by the DNC and FBI (i.e - Barr's and Durham's efforts are beginning to play-out). Most people in the general public don't seem to grok just how underhanded and anti-patriot Obama actually was (and still is). Hillary Clinton is even worse in that regards. These 3 - Obama/Biden/Clinton - they need to be metaphorically publicly crucified in some way. That is the next step in trying to turn this (the culture) around (i.e. - one of the short-term goals should be to have everyone turn on the various obfuscationists that are still populating every corner of power-levers in the public apparatus, and to do this, we need to grind the obfuscationist's rhetoric to dust). The Barr/Durham efforts, hopefully, will finally reveal to all, once and for all just what kind of psychopaths these 3 actually are. Once that has been achieved, then we must attach to that, all the rest ..... all the rest of the obfuscationism ..... pile it all on because it will stick once they have been dis-credited. It will stick because it will ring true, because it is true. These 3 lied about pretty much EVERYTHING (Despite how absolutely awful this 'Trump as Putin stooge' fiasco actually is, it is actually just small potaotes, overall, with respect to the depth and breadth of all the lies). I should also point out, that this shaming/deriding/metaphorically crucifying must be done in terms of patriots vs. traitors (and not in terms of political partisanship - it won't stick if it is done via a partisan lense). I am still hopeful.

Blogger Greg Hunt June 17, 2020 7:55 PM  

I'd bet good money it was the same as the Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCU). During segregation, they were "well regarded". When segregation was ended, the blacks went elsewhere; the quality of the education wasn't really as-good-as, and with the restriction removed they went for better.

Blogger Ranger June 17, 2020 8:33 PM  

@134. Yeah, as even you noticed, I was talking about Brazil. And Brazil is not more "diverse" now than it was in its past. But it was a lot less violent before the 80s. Ergo, the violence is not a fruit of the diversity.

But when you look at Brazilian narrative arts (cinema, theater, literature), you see a lot of works by communist "fellow-travellers" and "useful idiots" glorifying and justifying violence by the underclass, starting, approximately, from the 1930s.

So, yes, violence in Brazil nowadays has definitely a racial component. But it's very far from being the whole story.

Blogger Akulkis June 18, 2020 3:48 AM  

Wildman... good, you've learned about the new writing concept of putting a space between words, and even punctuation.

Now, could you please try this radical, but amazing concept called "paragraphs"

Also, your writing is information dense, but following your line of thought is overly difficult -- and I *design* computers -- the most complex machines mankind has ever made.

Blogger Jason the Gentleman June 18, 2020 10:16 AM  

I'm unsure, what is the G-D here about? Is it the curse God dman? Or something else entirely?

Blogger Wild Man June 18, 2020 11:18 AM  

Akulkis. Your criticism noted. So here is the coles notes of what I was getting at:

You could simply say that those that operate this 'corporatist-globalist neo-liberal western world order inclusive of the role neocons play in this vein' are our western elites at the current time. And 'elites' are expected to produce robust winning narratives. These current elites appear to think that the production of robust winning narratives means lying by dealing in obfuscationistic half-truths (it's often also a 'shell game of logic' where the other part of the truth is purposely hidden within the jargon of such abstract shell-game-operations). But of course these cannot really be robust winning narratives because truth tends to win in the end (reality impinges upon the dynamic at some point). So what do we really have here, with this current crop of western elites? Well.... we have imposters. These people cannot really be our elites in anything but name only if they are so inept that they cannot even produce robust winning narratives that aren't on the verge of cratering at any moment, because the whole narrative is built on a foundation of quicksand - i.e. - the half-truths (this obfuscationism is pretty much akin to 'gaslighting' - nasty nasty business, psychic-health-wise, for those on the receiving end).

Now .... people who are inept and incompetent enough to join said ranks of the current elites-system, and rise to leadership positions within the ranks (and Obama/Biden/Hillary Clinton are such people, or at least the public face of such) ..... well, even if it turns out that in the beginning they simply were misguided souls that eventually found themselves accruing at the levers of big power - well ..... these people tend to corrupt themselves by way of the exercise of that new power. They inevitably become corrupted because their worldview is inaccurate and as such cannot withstand all the extra pressures brought to bear, by way of the exercise of that power. As such, they slowly turn into monsters.

Now the public doesn't judge this in terms of 'winning robust narratives that are also logical' ..... the 'is it logical?' part is the responsibility of the elites to work out, .... but these elites better realize that if it isn't logical, in the end, they (and everybody else in their jurisdiction) become more and more compromised to the point the whole deal can lead to disaster if left unchecked. When it all starts to fail the people aren't gonna be satisfied with .... "oh mmmmm - I guess we weren't logical enough - I promise to do better'. The people don't really care about logic so much. The people simply want robust winning narratives and it is the elites job to deliver that. If they can't ..... well what often happens next is .... the people want blood. Somebody's blood (but this bloodlust can be slaked by way of proxies - like stripping people of all the privileges that used to stem from their reputations, criminal prosecution, public shaming featuring alot of vitriol, etc.).

Blogger Wild Man June 18, 2020 11:18 AM  

OK - like I said in my comments above, the false narratives apparent in our culture that are built upon the quicksand of obfuscationistic half-truth ..... well .... they are many many of these. In my comments above, I only touched on two - that the leftist conception of racism is wonky because it deals in half-truth, and that the leftist conception of human-caused climate change by way of added atmospheric CO2, inevitably leading to catastophe for mankind, if the added CO2 is not immediately curtailed so as to reduce the atmospheric CO2 over time. I wrote all that and yet I only barely touched on the workings of these two false narratives (I mean for the leftist conception of racism - I really was just looking at one small aspect of that .... misunderstandings all round about the principle of hybrid-vigor). So there is that (i.e. - it really isn't all that easy to explain to people how these false narratives gain traction .... and it isn't easy because all these false narratives seem to be designed as an 'edifice of abstraction', where there may be just one small lie at the bottom of the abstraction, that then goes on to color all the other inter-referencing definitions of concepts used in the abstraction, making it a convoluted and difficult exercise to un-package.

What I am suggesting here, is that patriots should be getting busy right about now, working out precisely where the lie (or lies) are well-hidden, by said 'edfices of abstraction', on all of these many many false narratives, so that when the time comes to pile on, we don't blow the chance. If we blow the chance that looks like is coming (the Barr/Durham efforts), well then .... pretty sure the worm ain't gonna turn then, culturally.

The weird thing about all this is that patriots spend so much time fighting each other. Now is the time for some compromise and collaboration. The likes of Vox Day, Peterson, Anglin, Kevin MacDonald, - I suppose people like Larry Elders, .... Trump himself still hopefully ..... all have more in common than it appears they might. People like Trump, Peterson and Elders recognize that alot of the critical factor for human flourishing, which is this human ingenuity, has been spawned by western efforts, and westernism is related to the European peoples. They don't want to see the human ingenuity compromised. I agree. In the end that may well spell disaster for everybody (I think one of the prime reasons that we are on the way to 10 billion is because westernism happened). People like Vox Day and Andrew Anglin go further and discuss the issue in terms of the gestalt of the western peoples, and how that just might be incompatible with other groups. Well ..... I don't see the problem with having some commentators make such points ..... because truth be told, - we still don't know for sure, one way or the other yet - on this incompatibility thing. So we gotta have people pointing that out. A non-obfuscationistic approach must allow for those voices to.

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