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Thursday, July 30, 2020

3 reasons Patreon got wrecked

Nick Rekeita of the Lawstream analyzes the San Francisco Superior Court's order denying Patreon's request for a preliminary injunction. He's sharp and well-informed, so even I will watch this video.

Mike Cernovich provides his analysis on Periscope.

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35 Comments:

Blogger CCP July 30, 2020 8:13 PM  

Damn! - "so even I will watch this video."

Blogger roundeye July 30, 2020 8:22 PM  

The foundational principal is if both parties agree to arbitrate, then they must arbitrate.

Also, judges have metrics for their jobs like everyone else. One metric that really counts is how fast they get rid of cases (and on the other hand how much they get reversed on appeal). If the principle is to shed cases to arbitration, then based on the metrics they will get you to arbitration as fast as they can.

Blogger doctrev July 30, 2020 8:30 PM  

Patreon should thank their lucky stars they're taking a pasting in the United States. I can personally guarantee that every business law student throughout Canada and the UK knows that courts will typically assess claims by a contract drafter with great severity, and apply less strict standards (anything from standard of reasonable doubt up to very favorable regard) in dealing with the signers. I can only imagine how the EU treats such contracts, especially with American Big Tech firms, but I can hazard a guess.

Blogger Dole July 30, 2020 9:12 PM  

If even Vox watches the video, it will most likely play in repeat here for a day. Very bad for the pop corn stash.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( The Surprised Pig hadn't had any idea he tasted this good ) July 30, 2020 9:15 PM  

scandalous, simply scandalous.

Blogger Kraemer July 30, 2020 9:28 PM  

You can tell that Vox takes his new title as consumer advocate extremely seriously. So seriously in fact, that he's actually watching a video that someone else sent him

Blogger Doktor Jeep July 30, 2020 9:39 PM  

Piles and piles of skulls....

Blogger GeronL July 30, 2020 9:39 PM  

I've heard this could be the start of the death of Patreon.

Blogger Mad Italian July 30, 2020 10:22 PM  

Roundeye....

What explains cases like Steyn v Mann and National Review v Mann taking years to even get to the discovery option? That case is entering it's 9th year and I think 3rd judge. By any metric it's a travesty.

Blogger J Melcher July 30, 2020 10:46 PM  

This mess with the Peloton exercise video service seems similar:

https://legalnewsline.com/stories/544361852-peloton-shifts-focus-from-arbitration-to-courtroom-to-defend-itself

Consumers filed arbitration, and the tech service failed to pay their share of the arbitration process costs. Soooo, back in actual court.

Blogger Bezzle July 30, 2020 11:13 PM  

Patreon made the mistake of screwing over its customers before the IPO. Kind of hard for the top execs to parachute out now.

Blogger Dole July 30, 2020 11:45 PM  

Oh yes, a keeper. The words "... Patreon is in default..." sound like Mozart. The smile is like Covington kid's and I hear that one keeps growing.

And as the big bear JAMS the TOS of Patreon to their behinds, it will only get better from here.

Blogger Reprehensible Adam July 31, 2020 12:44 AM  

Remember me.

Blogger Scuzzaman July 31, 2020 1:31 AM  

Any estimate of what this little diversion has already cost Patreon?

If the LLoE were charging commercial rates for some bullshit LA law firm to the stars, what would their combined billable hours add up to for this?

I suspect it’s not a trivial amount.

Blogger Arthur Isaac July 31, 2020 1:38 AM  

The sun stood still....

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 31, 2020 1:39 AM  

Givenwhat I've seen professionally, and the fact that Patreon's lawyers are rather obviously driving the billable hours as high as possible, I would put it in the ranges of millions, and possibly not single-digit. Certainly several times more than it would have been to issue an apology, give every one of Owen's patrons $1000 and make happy with Owen.

Blogger Br1cht July 31, 2020 3:00 AM  

Nice scull you got there Patreon, now it will adorn the throne of the SDL.

I hope Soygon now sues but he will likely use "muh liberal values" as an excuse to do nothing as usual. I regret that I didn´t use Patreon until Castalia.

Blogger DroppingBear July 31, 2020 3:45 AM  

Reading Gammas comments still trying to twist n squirm after yet another win is incredibly satisfying.
Must be some sort of a shyte existence hoping and squirting thst Owen and Vox fail. Even though they've literally fought and won for the avg. consumer.

Blogger My 1 millionth internet profile July 31, 2020 4:20 AM  

Are legal fees dischargeable in bankruptcy? Asking for some people who seem to be getting terrible advice from a number of so-called professionals.

Blogger Balazs Varga July 31, 2020 6:46 AM  

Rekieta is a fun guy. Wish I had the same Imperium flag as he has!

Blogger Yossarian July 31, 2020 7:45 AM  

You can speed up videos 2x.

Blogger Avalanche July 31, 2020 9:11 AM  

Nick doesn't know about the Legal Legion of Doom? Sounds like it.

Oh, I cannot WAIT till Nick can have Vox Day on again to provide the details!

Blogger Gregory the Tall July 31, 2020 9:22 AM  

Question: Can they not avoid the arbitrations by filing for bankruptcy?

Blogger tuberman July 31, 2020 9:35 AM  

I'm all for these Bears, and good video.

Blogger RadixMalorum July 31, 2020 10:28 AM  

Vox is probably waiting for some major company with a trust and safety council to pull something like this on him so he can finally get his Italian castle.

Blogger RadixMalorum July 31, 2020 10:29 AM  

Gregory the Tall wrote:Question: Can they not avoid the arbitrations by filing for bankruptcy?

Assuming that's possible isn't that like beheading yourself to avoid cutting off your arm?

Blogger lowercaseb July 31, 2020 10:53 AM  

You can't beat Nick's glee when he is enjoying a subject. It's great to watch...and like someone above said, the comments were particularly salty. Nick himself had to wade into flood to spank a few, even though he honestly doesn't care about the Owen vs Reddit battles.

although, those comments will last long. The secret kings were getting roasted by the regular IBS-loving viewers of Rekieta who had no patience with their "Ackshually" posts. They started deleting their own threads in hopes that no one will remember how they were they were the guests of honor for the internet boot parties they created themselves.

Blogger Ingot9455 July 31, 2020 11:03 AM  

@23 Bankruptcy would be a cure worse than the disease.

One of the purposes of a bankruptcy is to move all pending claims into the same court so they can all be dealt with. So it would be up to the discretion of the bankruptcy judge to bring in all the arbitrations and settle them quickly.

But in this case the arbitrations have barely commenced and Patreon is just on the hook for initial fees, which means, how do they even pay if they lose?

From there it depends on what bankruptcy they file and how they do it, but in general it would be a company-dissolving move to admit in court that you don't have enough money for court or a court-like proceeding which means you're indigent and have nothing. So why are you a company again? What is it, exactly, that you do here?


https://www.natlbankruptcy.com/arbitration-agreements-bankruptcy/#:~:text=The%20bottom%20line%20is%20that,may%20be%20litigated%20in%20court.

http://blogs.mvalaw.com/litigation-law-blog/will-your-arbitration-agreement-survive-bankruptcy/



Blogger Wazdakka July 31, 2020 11:43 AM  

Lots of excitable coverage of this on many platforms.
And this is only the opening shots.
Its David vs Goliath, but David has a machine gun, and artillery support off field.

Blogger Dole July 31, 2020 1:56 PM  

@29 It does not hurt that the David is Bear sized and hungry either.

Blogger Darren July 31, 2020 3:27 PM  

Fact: VD shared a link to a Cerno video on the subject of Patreon self-immolation
Theory: VD watched that video

Blogger Darren July 31, 2020 3:30 PM  

Today Sargon just did this 40 minute live stream: "It's Not About The Money, Jack Conte"
https://youtu.be/jvA05bOCQVk

(Agreed. It's about power. People waking up to the fact that they can take it back from BigTech, Patreon is just for starters.)

Blogger Darren July 31, 2020 3:58 PM  

PLUS there are dozens maybe thousands of Davids starting to pay attention!

Blogger George Phillies July 31, 2020 5:12 PM  

Readers here will probably this as good news:

https://www.unz.com/estriker/judge-orders-patreon-to-pay-owen-benjamin-fans-millions-of-dollars-in-massive-blow-to-tech-censorship/

Blogger Gregory the Tall July 31, 2020 5:27 PM  

I would imagine a beheading hurts less.

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