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Thursday, July 02, 2020

Historian in hot water over history

How dare British historians actually know anything about British and world history!
Historian David Starkey could lose his University of Cambridge fellowship after he claimed 'slavery was not genocide' because 'so many damn blacks live in Africa and Britain.'

Dr Starkey, 75, was accused of racism following an interview with BeLeave founder Darren Grimes, during which he argued the Black Lives Matter (BLM) movement is 'wholly and entirely a product of white colonisation'.

Speaking via video link from his home, the historian said 'the only reason that these young black protestors are here' is 'because of slavery'.

He added: 'What has happened of course is that the only reason that these young black protestors are here - isn't it slavery?

'It's only because of the great African diaspora, the compulsory diaspora, because of slavery. What of course that brings you up to confronting is of course slavery was not the equivalent of the Holocaust.

'Slavery was not genocide, otherwise there wouldn't be so many damn blacks in Africa or in Britain, would there? An awful lot of them survived.

'And again, there's no point in arguing against globalisation or Western civilisation: they are all products of it. We are all products of it.
Slavery obviously isn't genocide. Economically inefficient as it is, it wouldn't have worked as long as it did if it was. American Indians suffered genocide in part because they didn't make good slaves. Africans, quite obviously, did not, with the exception of those living in the Belgian Congo.

If the British want to beat themselves up over the moral failings of the West - and I am not saying that it should - it should do so over the conquest, genocide, and near-total dispossession of the American Indian, not its treatment of Africans, or Arabs, or Jews.

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80 Comments:

Blogger Amethyst Dominica July 02, 2020 7:13 PM  

You could argue that the slaves brought to the South American sugar plantations and those transported to Saudi Arabia were genocided, due to overwork and castration, but the tiny portion transplanted to Britain and the US South had it easy by comparison, since they were treated more as valuable livestock than grist for the mill. Their lives were still nasty, brutish and short, which gives you an idea of how inhumane the conditions were elsewhere.

Look at any slave route map and you'll see only a small trickle of slaves brought to white countries, yet the people who still live in those countries are expected to pony up for the bulk of the reparations. I guess there would be no point in demanding reparations from the descendants of the Arabs who ran the slave trade, since they'd just point out their own windows and say "See that sand? Go pound it."

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 02, 2020 7:13 PM  

Slavery was bad for the slaves and the slavers, but it was good for the descendants of the slaves and disastrous for the descendants of the slavers.

Was it Cassius Clay who said ``Thank God my ancestors got on the slave ship?''

Blogger bramley say Enoch woz right July 02, 2020 7:16 PM  

David Starkey is no stranger to controversy. Let's hope he can weather this squall with as much magnanimity as he bore against the others before. I have a real soft spot for him, sodomite though he may be, for the queenish-snark cannon he wheels out against those who would attempt to take him down based on what they believe him to be, with no knowledge of his extremely humble background and long struggle to place himself in the position he has attained. His eloquent evisceration of the likes of Laurie Penny and Owen 'Squealer' Jones is always a delight to watch.

Also, Vox, what books would you recommend to learn more about the dispossession of the original peoples of North America? I have read 'Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee' and 'The Long Death', both of which i found quite useful, but lacking. I'd love to read more of the transcriptions of the actual words of the chieftains. The brief excerpts of such in the two works i mentioned were very engaging.

Blogger The Masked Menace July 02, 2020 7:26 PM  

There is no such thing as history. There is only narrative.

Blogger Polemicist July 02, 2020 8:07 PM  

Far from wanting to beat ourselves up, most Britons are either bemused or heartily sick of watching these unwelcome guests and political criminals being indulged.

The football authorities have been fortunate that matches have been played in empty stadiums as otherwise the ridiculous spectacle of players 'taking the knee' would have been met by abuse and jeers - certainly at those clubs (Burnley, West Ham, etc.) which remain primarily focuses of local identity rather than global brands.

It will be interesting to see what happens when Rugby League resumes, as the only black coach in the sport has demanded that a number of professional players be punished for describing BLM mobs as the 'dregs of society'. If they do agree to debase themselves, we will know that they have been given a choice between kneeling and unemployment.

Blogger Bucephalus July 02, 2020 8:17 PM  

“Dr Starkey, 75, was accused of racism “


How long Before this leads to the death penalty?

Blogger tublecane July 02, 2020 8:23 PM  

Put aside for a moment that the term genocide is deliberately slippery and invented to enshrine Conspiracy Theory in international law.* "African" is not a people. It's not a nation, an ethnicity, or a race. It's ridiculous to pretend you can attempt genocide against the inhabitants of a continent.

That is, unless you do it the American way. Which was to push off, round up, or kill all inhabitants of the land they coveted. So we can speak of the "Genocide of the American Indian" knowing it's shorthand for "genocide of the various Indian Peoples who got in Americans' way." No such thing happened in Africa.

Britain did not take over Africa and push off whatever Africans got in the way. They colonized part of it, but the subject at hand is the slave trade. And the goal of slavery was obviously not to kill or get rid of Africanness (whatever that is). The goal was to exploit them for their labor.

"slavery was not the equivalent of the Holocaust"

Well now, the Holocaust so-called did involve slavery. Prevailing opinion says this was incidental to the overall plan to eliminate European Jewry. We assume intent to mass murder (or some of us do).

Whatever the case there, no one thinks Britain had any intent to eliminate Africanness from Africa, or the world. Or rather, no one who isn't a liar or crazy.

Intent is important for murder. Even if you arrive at it through magical thinking.

*It also curiously defined it as a majority population persecuting a minority. It never considered the other way around, when a minority takes control and gets its payback against the majority. Curious, that.

Blogger R Devere July 02, 2020 8:25 PM  

"... it should do so over the conquest, genocide, and near-total dispossession of the American Indian..."

WRONG! The American Indians were doing a damned fine job of committing genocide on each other's tribes well before Europeans appeared! Same with enslaving each other! It's more than likely that if not for European intervention, the indigenous populations of the New World would have disappeared! There was no massive European genocide of the natives remaining after disease---unwitting spread by mere contact, not by any grand design, (as no one knew what caused diseases in the 15th Century) ravaged native populations.

As for "dispossession", virtually every bit of indigenous-held lands in North America were ceded to Europeans by treaties, many of which treaties required that the invasive Europeans provide aid, comfort and defense to Tribe "A," against their being wiped out by Tribe "B"!

And don't throw out that old canard about the superiority of European arms technology! The natives, after watching the initial "magic" of flash, smoke and inaccurate aim, as well as slow reloading of the European firearms of the time, easily figured out their own bows and arrows were superior in rate of fire and accuracy during face-to-face armed encounters! And as firearms improved, so did their access to the indigenous peoples!

Blogger Felix Bellator July 02, 2020 8:27 PM  

If you took an average African make from 1830, transported him to the South in 1830 and had him take a good look around. Then transport him forward in time to 2005 in the projects in Atlanta, and asked him, "If I can promise you that your great grandchildren can live like this if I take you back to be a slave in 1830, would you voluntarily do so?" I think he would agree.

Slavery was a reality for huge numbers of Africans in Africa in 1830. Was life in Africa really better than slavery in America in 1830?

Blogger Brett baker July 02, 2020 8:40 PM  

If only the Red Man had chosen to leave the reservation and live in potentially valuable urban real estate, or struck more oil, or taken over the media, the world would be a better place.

Blogger Canadian Warlord July 02, 2020 8:56 PM  

Canada's 'First Nation' reserves are completely addicted to government assistance, are isolated, and are already slipping from first world status. When the politics are finally dominated by Slurpy Indian indifference or Chinese genocidal shunning, they will be completely erased.

The Brits could worry about that. Instead, they are apologizing for their greatest accomplishment - ending the worldwide slave trade.

Blogger DeepThought July 02, 2020 9:03 PM  

The left is using recently created "Western values" against the West.

Tolerance
Diversity

The right is only starting to wake up.

Blogger Mntngt July 02, 2020 9:08 PM  

And what they did to China....

Blogger Stilicho July 02, 2020 9:11 PM  

Noticing something that happened centuries ago is now a high crime

Blogger John Best. July 02, 2020 9:21 PM  

If the English nation wants to beat itself up about something it needs be it subverting itself to Satan in the name of building an Empire and colonizing other people's nations, just to have the colonial system they created inverted on them and have their people perverted by the same Satanist trend they subverted themselves to.

Blogger [Redacted] July 02, 2020 9:22 PM  

Soon on Unauthorized.TV:
"Hot Water History" Season 1

Inconvenient historical events and their implications for today's policies.

Blogger God Emperor Memes July 02, 2020 9:47 PM  

It seems like almost nothing claimed to be a genocide actually is. There are millions more Palesimians now than there were before 1948, for example. Of course, there are millions more Small Hats, too.

Blogger eclecticmn July 02, 2020 9:53 PM  

Notice how you don't see many black people in the Arab countries where they were brought as slaves. They were usually castrated and were not allowed to reproduce in any case. The Arabs were closer to the source and could get more over land when needed. The Americas were further away so they were allowed to reproduce in north america. Plus the supply was hurt when the British forced their anti-slavery blockades on the slave traders. The Muslims never liked this.

Thomas Sowell wrote a lot on the history of slavery and conquests and culture and immigration and culture. He said the Arab slaver routes overland from Africa were marked by the bleached bones of the dead slaves. I highly recommend Sowell's books on race and culture. I learned a lot.

Ever notice how once the evil colonizers left, the former subjects could not wait to move to the countries of the evil colonizers?

Blogger Akulkis July 02, 2020 9:57 PM  

>> Was it Cassius Clay who said ``Thank God my ancestors got on the slave ship?''

Thomas Sowell expressed a similar sentiment. And that was as a fervent Marxist who had just returned from a "get-back-to-your-roots" tour of Africa.

Blogger Akulkis July 02, 2020 10:14 PM  

>> Was it Cassius Clay who said ``Thank God my ancestors got on the slave ship?''

Thomas Sowell expressed a similar sentiment. And that was as a fervent Marxist who had just returned from a "get-back-to-your-roots" tour of Africa.

Blogger Paddy J S July 02, 2020 10:33 PM  

As an Irish man if the Brits want to beat themselves up over anything perhaps they should look to island to the left of them. 700 years of mistreatment would be putting it mildly. Not to mention possession of 6 counties.

Blogger Storm Rhode July 02, 2020 10:40 PM  

I'm watching a new movie called The Insurrection that spells out the nonsense the mainstream media has been pushing from the perspective of a fictional Hollywood CEO. I'm surprised it got made. There is even storm trooper style marksmanship.

Blogger Roman Daoist July 02, 2020 10:41 PM  

History must really bother some people. I mean all that stuff that happened that they want to not have happened, just stays having happened - over and over every time they look. Must hurt to be insane.

Blogger VFM #7634 July 02, 2020 10:43 PM  

Dr. Starkey is clearly the intellectual version of that old coot on the porch with a shotgun who doesn't give a da-n. Bless him.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants July 02, 2020 10:53 PM  

White Irish slaves in America were tasked with the hardest not deadly jobs because African slaves were more expensive.
The woke mobs never have any criticisms for non-Wetern countries which leads me to think we would have been much better off if we had genocided the slaves like the Arabs did and saved ourselves all of this trouble.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants July 02, 2020 10:56 PM  

I think it's pretty comparable, both groups forced into work against their will. The main difference I guess is the mass typhus and starvation's in the camps.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants July 02, 2020 11:00 PM  

In between besting their wives, kids and animals & completely neglecting their children.
Lovely people. Just lovely. About as awesome as the Abbos.

Blogger Silly but True July 02, 2020 11:13 PM  

At least Native Americans are Americans.

Can we just give a large government subsidy to Elon Musk, and be done with reparations to African-Americans?

Blogger Lance E July 02, 2020 11:15 PM  

Know who's really good at genociding Africans? Other Africans.

And no, I don't mean Chicago or some other DR3 nonsense. Just ask the Tutsis, or any of the pygmy tribes wiped out by the Bantu expansion.

Of course, BLM is no more a product of "white colonization" than South African farm murders; it's a product of white passivity and white progressivism.

Blogger sammibandit July 02, 2020 11:48 PM  

VD has a point. Lots of treaties are not fulfilled on the part of the Brits. There's no argument against this either. If natives wanted to end ceasefire they legally could. Not that I would advise that.

Blogger thechortling July 02, 2020 11:54 PM  

it's like the NFL -- kneel in conformity or be cast into outer darkness (next stop in BLMPC: Bible's characterization of "dark" as evil -- St. Michael trampling on Satan is now Floydinated ) .

Blogger Dont Worry About Me July 03, 2020 12:01 AM  

Slavery of foreigners is cursed, for the same reason that Israel was punished for enslaving the Canaanites instead of driving them out as commanded. Nothing good comes of it.

Blogger Shane Bradman July 03, 2020 12:15 AM  

If Britain is to answer, Britain should answer for their crimes against India, not the words they said about various ethnicities that nobody cares about.

Blogger John Best. July 03, 2020 1:00 AM  

@21 Its going to be difficult for the English to accept that the 3 million or so Irish shouldn't be here, and they are a subversive influence. You never hear the ethno-nationalists talking about it, but the Irish are a much bigger demographic problem then any other group within England. Another issue is that the Loyalists are Scottish and not English, so it means England can just remove itself for all its demographic problems and political entanglements if we just send all the Irish back to Ireland.

Blogger Johnny July 03, 2020 1:23 AM  

Black slaves were treated the way they were treated in Arabia because they were inexpensive. Cheap enough that it didn't pay to get involved in raising new ones. Women for the harem and men for field labor mostly, and worked hard enough that the field labor didn't last. Most blacks in Arabia only lasted a couple of years.

And the Spanish down in Latin America practiced true genocide among some of the native tribes. The locals didn't hold up well and they worked them to death. Went through the entire native population of Cuba.

Land was cheap and labor dear in the Untied States. Plus the southerners had two valuable crops that required a lot of labor. That is why we were involved in raising new ones, and also why we have a left over population of blacks. The were a valuable asset so you didn't waste them.

Not that BLM cares anything about fact. Most everything they push is bunk. And so, what the hell, pile on with some more BS...

Anonymous Anonymous July 03, 2020 1:23 AM  

When I saw Chris Rock for the first time, at the ‘99 fringe festival in Edinburgh iirc, he made the same point. He said black people don’t have it that bad, it’s the Indians he feels sorry for. Guess he’s changed his tune since then.

There’s a meme going around showing a girls football team kneeling, with one in very centre standing with hand on heart. Now that’s a strong woman!

Blogger John Rockwell July 03, 2020 2:03 AM  

Unlike Europeans. Arabs castrated all Black male slaves.

This is why they don't have the current problems that the West has.

Imagine how different it would be if Europeans were exactly like Arabs in this respect.

Blogger Grooveware July 03, 2020 2:29 AM  

As a Scotsman I want reparations from the Vikings, the Roman's - England, Ottoman Empire. I need a new car so if I can have the money as soon as possible it will be much appreciated.

Blogger Grooveware July 03, 2020 2:35 AM  

The Sack of Baltimore Ireland 1631, Ottoman pirates captured between 107 and 237 locals, slapped in irons and taken to a life of slavery in North Africa.

Blogger Xellos July 03, 2020 3:24 AM  

bramley says "Enoch was right" wrote:David Starkey is no stranger to controversy. Let's hope he can weather this squall with as much magnanimity as he bore against the others before. I have a real soft spot for him, sodomite though he may be, for the queenish-snark cannon he wheels out against those who would attempt to take him down based on what they believe him to be, with no knowledge of his extremely humble background and long struggle to place himself in the position he has attained. His eloquent evisceration of the likes of Laurie Penny and Owen 'Squealer' Jones is always a delight to watch.


I, on the other hand, will celebrate this further cannibalisation of the snarky globohomo.

Blogger General Grudge July 03, 2020 5:05 AM  

But isn't even the supposed genocide of the native american mostly a myth? Did not most of them breed into the white race that came to the New World? The reason so many "white Americans" have native american blood is because so many of them married into the race. They didn't die out, they mingled.

Blogger BalancedTryteOperators July 03, 2020 6:13 AM  

What of course that brings you up to confronting is of course slavery was not the equivalent of the Holocaust.

That parallel puts waay waay waaaaay too much undeserved guilt on the slaveholders of England & the USA. You can't make e.g. Jefferson Davis more evil or equal in evil to Hermann Göring. That assaasinates their characters and BLM activists need to cut that foolishness out. They reached ignorant conclusions and had ignorant views, but that covers the extent of their meager failings.

Blogger FrankNorman July 03, 2020 6:56 AM  

25. Zeroh Tollrants July 02, 2020 10:53 PM

White Irish slaves in America were tasked with the hardest not deadly jobs because African slaves were more expensive.
The woke mobs never have any criticisms for non-Wetern countries which leads me to think we would have been much better off if we had genocided the slaves like the Arabs did and saved ourselves all of this trouble.


The reason the "woke mobs" don't attack Western countries that historically had slavery is partly sheer ignorance, but mostly:

Because it isn't about slavery at all. It's about hating Protestant Christianity and all that it has built in this world.

They want us dead. And then they want re-write history to pretend that we never existed.
They don't want humanity to have access to the Gospel, to learn about the saving blood of Jesus.
The people behind the "woke" crowd want to make all humanity go to Hell.
That's what this is really all about.

Blogger Damelon Brinn July 03, 2020 8:10 AM  

Did not most of them breed into the white race that came to the New World?

Citation needed. I'm certainly no expert, so I can't say you're wrong, and I'd like to see evidence of this. But I've never heard that before, and it's hard to see how there would have been a lot of intermarriage when tribes were being herded from one treaty-promised territory to the next.

Blogger Avalanche July 03, 2020 8:14 AM  

@37 "Arabs castrated all Black male slaves.
Imagine how different it would be if Europeans were exactly like Arabs in this respect."

Is it too late to try to catch up?

I wonder, having read the great story in "There Will be War Vol X," if the Chinese ARE working on a genetic poison specific to africans? It would let them clear out an entire continent of trouble and leave them with the major portion of resources on the globe -- useful for their major portion of the world's population?

Anonymous Anonymous July 03, 2020 9:09 AM  

@37 John Rockwell: "Imagine how different it would be if Europeans were exactly like Arabs in this respect."

Yes, instead of White Americans being, on average, 99.8% White, we'd instead average anywhere from 10-20% sub-Saharan in ancestry. The Arabs may have castrated the Negro males, but they bred with the females. The exact percent of Negro ancestry varies from country to country, but all Arabs are now part Negro. Just as Puerto Ricans average 20% Negro ancestry.

@1 Amethyst Dominica: "Their lives were still nasty, brutish and short, which gives you an idea of how inhumane the conditions were elsewhere."

Actually, Negro slaves in America had, on average, a better diet and longer expected life-span than Irish and many other European immigrant workers in the North (not to mention the Irish worked to death in the South because they were far cheaper than African slaves). John Derbyshire studied the available information a number of years ago and was surprised to discover that the tales of southern slaves being treated as valuable property were, in fact, true.

@18 eclecticmn: " I highly recommend Sowell's books on race and culture. I learned a lot."

Why do you all still require validation by a Negro before discussing racial reality? Sowell is a tolerably decent introduction for the civic nationalist, but much of his 'scholarship' has been disproven. For example, his claim that the Great Society destroyed the black family (the website Those Who Can See has done exhaustive research and documented that, in fact, there was never a point in US history when the black rates of crime, illegitimacy, divorce, etc. were not multiples of Whites). Sowell wrote an entire book attributing black dysfunction to their purported 'aping' of Scots-Irish behavior, although it's not the Scots-Irish demanding reparations and lowered standards due to insufficient native intelligence. And even though what everyone celebrates as the purported Negro roots of jazz was, in fact, heavily based on Scots-Irish ballads and music (just as Negro 'foot stompin' copied the 'hillbillies' flat-footed dancing, which was again an outgrowth of Scots-Irish dancing) they are never credited with the roots of Jazz. Funny, that.

Finally, if the British 'owe' an apology for anything, it's not to the countries to which they brought civilization and railroads, but rather for spreading the sub-continental and the Han to all corners of the globe because the first were and are born bureaucrats, and the second were better workers than various native populations (as quoted by Lothrop Stoddard in "Rising Tide of Color," the problem re Chinese immigration to America was not that Ah Sing could outwork paddy, but rather that Ah Sing could (and did, and does) under live him).

Is today History 101 or something?

Blogger Unknown July 03, 2020 9:10 AM  

Indian American genocide never happened, diseases and war did. Congo genocide is also largely a myth, and its supposed numbers completely impossible (made by a left-wing Jewish 'historian')

Blogger American Nationalist July 03, 2020 10:54 AM  

The Arab slave trade WAS a genocide, and it lasted far longer than the European one. Technically, it's still going on in Libya. There's a reason there are so few blacks in the Middle East.

Blogger DonReynolds July 03, 2020 11:10 AM  

Let's be frank. Slavery was an improvement in the human condition. Slavery REPLACED genocide. Slavery gave defeated enemies value (in trade) that previously they did not have. Defeated enemies before the advent of the slave trade were simply wiped out...killed. They may have kept some of the women to play with (or trade), but the sons of your enemies would not have any sentimental value.

Genocide was the common theme BEFORE slavery.... or to be more exact, the trade in slaves. Not many societies would want (or trust) their former enemies as slaves, living in close proximity with their own families. The sale of slaves helped pay for the war effort and removed them from the land, which was probably the point of the war, in the first place.

Blogger tuberman July 03, 2020 11:24 AM  

"The Arabs may have castrated the Negro males, but they bred with the females. The exact percent of Negro ancestry varies from country to country, but all Arabs are now part Negro."

Most actual Arab countries and people are a very small percent African DNA, and the amount there is came very late. In the Middle East where more than 85% of the black slaves went most of the DNA was killed off in the many hundreds of years that slavery existed there. Most of the mulatto babies of the slave women were killed at birth. Yeah, the males came in castrated.

European colonization of Africa was very late, except in South Africa, and had nothing to do with slave trade. White colonization happened around 1870 onward, and the American/European slave trade was over by then.

European started to buy a small amount of black slave starting around 1500 - 1650, and at this time there were more European slaves in the Middle East then there were black slaves being purchased by Europeans.

The Arabs opened up black slave trade by first conquering North Africa with their European quality weapons technology. They gave a certain amount of freedom to black North Africans, if they became Muslims, and it was they who traveled into deeper sections of Africa to BUY slaves. Note: They seldom had to gather the slaves, as this was done by tribes deep in Africa selling other tribes, and even sometimes their own.

So, most African slaves were initially made into slaves by other tribes or their own tribe deep within Africa, then sold to North African middle men, who took then North where they sold them to the Middle East or European/Americans (sometimes through Jewish traders). This was all done with on the western civilization side well over a hundred years before any colonialism happened.

Africans turned on their own, and sold their own into slavery -- same old, same old, as character wills out.

Blogger Evstratios July 03, 2020 11:26 AM  

Just a basic interesting unoffensive conversation so not surprising. It is completely bizarre to watch the simultaneous cucking and debasement of vast swathes of the earth. Makes me think of st Anthonys fire, some form of biochemical interaction between unknown alkaloids in soy and toxoplasma neurochemicals is wreaking some serious havoc out there.

Greek Canadian, but like Vox I am also metis, Abenaki, Cree, Blackfoot, Objibway on my mother's side going back to Captain William Grey Owen as direct ancestor. A lot goes into a person that goes back to colonization. In Canada, a near majority of reserves have no source of clean water and on boil water advisories from years to decades amongst everything else. It is not even a remote comparison as far as grievance.

Further, on a whole culturally and technologically far more advanced and cohesive for long stretches of time than anything out of Africa.

Regardless someone was interested as far as some books, in my opinion The North American Indian and the other works from George Catlin are highly valuable for the end of that age. For Canadian history, Peter C Newman Company of Adventurers and Caesar's of the Wilderness are seminal.

The aboriginal viewpoint unfortunately rarely comes in books. One generally has to find a receptive Elder and befriend them to participate in the extensive oral history, something I would recommend highly if at all possible when considering yourself to have a well rounded intellectual base.

chi miigwech VD

Blogger Evstratios July 03, 2020 11:35 AM  

Also every successful civilization going back to Sumer utilized 'slaves' including our own currently and will continue as much as possible into the future until our clockwork mechanisms start doing what we want, when we want.

It's nearly impossible to have time to think otherwise and no one is doing math when they need to plant the corn. The descendants of 'slaves' in Western civilization should be deeply deeply ashamed. They wouldn't last a week at Foxconn.

Dr Starkey should be running Cambridge.

Anonymous Anonymous July 03, 2020 11:48 AM  

@50 tuberman: "Most actual Arab countries and people are a very small percent African DNA"

It varies. In Saudi Arabia it's about 7%, in Yemen it's about 30%. Since the search algorithms are all f-d up, I cannot find the studies I read which specified % per country, but it is not insignificant.

Blogger rcocean July 03, 2020 12:15 PM  

All this cuckery all starts with the British. After being the biggest slave-traders in the world for 100 years, they suddenly got a conscience in 1833 and got rid of slavery. After that they never stopped sneering at the USA for having slavery. After that they got so high on the moral virute of "Loving the black man", they imported millions of blacks into the UK after WW2. Now, they've gone a step forward and are jailing/firing people for "racism". They're completely insane on the subject of race, and always have been. Probably, the plan is for the middle-class Brits to bail out and move to Spain or wherever when the UK becomes too Muslim/Black.

Blogger bramley say Enoch woz right July 03, 2020 12:42 PM  

Nice statement about Dr. Starkey's comments from the 'conservative' YouTuber Darren Grimes: "I reject in the strongest possible terms what Dr Starkey said in that clip and so very wish I'd caught it at the time. I am still learning the ropes, I will be much more alert to challenging this kind of thing in future."

Very conservative. He knows who he serves.

Blogger bramley say Enoch woz right July 03, 2020 1:08 PM  

@54

Britain in fact began working against the slave trade long before that, and from at least 1805 was actively disrupting it. The trade of slaves was outlawed in the empire in 1807, and the Royal Navy was in part employed from then on in releasing slaves under transportation across the Atlantic. In 1833 it became illegal to own slaves anywhere within the empire (excepting those holdings of the (((East India Company)))).

We were betrayed in 1947, yes, and henceforth have been faced by a veritable tidal wave of immigration. Just desserts, you seem to be implying?

Spain is not faring much better in terms of racial homogeneity, so why anybody would decamp there for peace from Blacks is a rather questionable proposition. Besides, whole areas are colonised by working-class 'gammons' who the upper tier hates with a passion. They're not going to be abandoning the Cotswolds any time soon.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 03, 2020 1:21 PM  

Shane Bradman wrote:Britain should answer for their crimes against India,
Speaking of ethnicities nobody cares about ...

Blogger tuberman July 03, 2020 1:45 PM  

@ 54

"After being the biggest slave-traders in the world for 100 years"

Seeing as how the Brits had few people that made any inroads into the deepest parts of Africa until well after 1850, how is that even possible? You need lots of qualifiers here, as they could not of been anything but middle men. The diseases in Africa killed Brits real quick. Did they somehow invade North Africa and take over from the Muslims who controlled slave trade route to there? Were they the main traders to the Middle East during that time? Maybe they had a secret group of troops with high immunity to various African diseases?

Be specific, as in Brit ships controlled the shipping routes to Europe and the Americas. That was merely the last leg of the slave trades at any time, and even during those times the vast majority of the slaves went to the Middle East, and most went over land by caravan and few used Brit ships.

The Biggest slave traders were always two things:

1) The Deep African tribes selling their own, or those who captured the slaves and initiated the slave trades. Slave Trades started with the African tribes themselves, and there would have been much smaller trades, if it even depended on raiding parties like the Barbary Pirates, who mainly raided other ships and coastal areas (including Europe).

2) Middle East Muslims controlling the African routes to places along the North African coast, and to the Middle East itself.

Again, since Middle East black African male slaves had very short lives, they needed to be constantly replenished, so the vast majority of black male slaves went to the Middle East, not to the Americas or any place else controlled by the West.

This is not hair-splitting, as it's very important to know the full truth about this.

BTW, the Brits heavily favored the South in the Civil War, so they were not always virtue-signaling that direction.

And, it's not all the Brit people, as the globalists have had an iron grip on the UK at least since the takeover of The Bank of London in 1815. They had earlier control through the East India Tea Company with it's military larger than the governments.

Stop pointing fingers -- the Globalist Cabals have been manipulating this garbage all along. Let's break their grip now, then see what happens.

Blogger sammibandit July 03, 2020 1:54 PM  

The natives near where I live just had a pow wow. Against the backdrop of covid they decided to gather to celebrate and to scare the newcomers moving in. Say what you want. That's badass.

Blogger steb July 03, 2020 3:20 PM  

@54 It's odd how many Americans sound unhinged when they talk about Britain. It's like listening to a woman talk about her ex-husband

Blogger God Emperor Memes July 03, 2020 4:21 PM  

@50 tuberman: "Most actual Arab countries and people are a very small percent African DNA"

It is very obvious amongst the Omanis and Yemenis. Many of them exhibit Negroid features, especially dark skin and woolly hair. Funnily enough, they DO NOT like Blacks and openly despise the BLM types.
One, a Sergeant in the Royal Omani Police, commented to me, "Everywhere in the world, they are the same. They all act the same. - Loud, stupid, ignorant, criminals. It was better when they were slaves."

Blogger J.M. July 03, 2020 5:32 PM  

Johnny wrote:Black slaves were treated the way they were treated in Arabia because they were inexpensive. Cheap enough that it didn't pay to get involved in raising new ones. Women for the harem and men for field labor mostly, and worked hard enough that the field labor didn't last. Most blacks in Arabia only lasted a couple of years.

And the Spanish down in Latin America practiced true genocide among some of the native tribes. The locals didn't hold up well and they worked them to death. Went through the entire native population of Cuba.

Land was cheap and labor dear in the Untied States. Plus the southerners had two valuable crops that required a lot of labor. That is why we were involved in raising new ones, and also why we have a left over population of blacks. The were a valuable asset so you didn't waste them.

Not that BLM cares anything about fact. Most everything they push is bunk. And so, what the hell, pile on with some more BS...


You'd better read and think before writing about things you know nothing of. The Spanish immigration was just a trickle compared to the millions that immigrated to America in the ethnic cleansing practiced by the British and later Americans, whether you like it or not. Cuba and the Caribbean islands were an exception due to the viral shock and geographic conditions but Spaniards never carried out genocide (at least intentionally) given their mindset and their numbers.

The greatest proof of what I'm saying is that for good or ill, most people in Hispanic America, even many in the whitish elites have varying degrees indigenous admixture vs a minority of mixed bloods that you can find in the US. Without the immigration waves of the 19th and early 20th century America would look very different, less Euro in all likelihood.

General Grudge wrote:But isn't even the supposed genocide of the native american mostly a myth? Did not most of them breed into the white race that came to the New World? The reason so many "white Americans" have native american blood is because so many of them married into the race. They didn't die out, they mingled.

Last time I checked, less than 5% of White Americans have Native American Admixture. I think that answers your question.

With respect to European Americans, the percentages are much more different than African Americans or Latinos, with European American genomes being 98.6 percent European, 0.19 percent African and 0.18 percent Native American. In general, the numbers seem to agree with what one would expect given the history of American colonization by Europeans and their interactions with African and Native Americans.

Blogger Akulkis July 03, 2020 6:13 PM  

>>Just a basic interesting unoffensive conversation so not surprising. It is completely bizarre to watch the simultaneous cucking and debasement of vast swathes of the earth. Makes me think of st Anthonys fire, some form of biochemical interaction between unknown alkaloids in soy and toxoplasma neurochemicals is wreaking some serious havoc out there.


No. It's just simple brainwashing in the public schools and through the major media, acting as a single, combined force.

Blogger Akulkis July 03, 2020 6:21 PM  

>> It's odd how many Americans sound unhinged when they talk about Britain. It's like listening to a woman talk about her ex-husband

Considering that they are our estranged relatives, this surprises you, why, exactly?

Blogger eclecticmn July 03, 2020 6:49 PM  

Sheila4gl and tuberman:
Thanks for the posts. I do not accept everything Sowell writes uncritically. Reading him about such world racial history is better than 99% of the material out there. Ethnic America was a fun read. Reading him about slavery worldwide was eye opening for me. Albion's Seed, about British migration to America was a great read.

I would be interested in knowing the source of arguments against Sowell's thesis that the Great Society programs destroyed the black family. There are several books supporting that the govt programs destroyed families and society in general. E.g. The Burden of Bad Ideas.

Robert D. Kaplan books include ethnography. I like him.
A Troublesome Inheritance: Genes, Race and Human History is a 2014 book by British writer and journalist Nicholas Wade. Mere possession of the book is thoughtcrime.

Blogger eclecticmn July 03, 2020 7:14 PM  

@46. Sheila4g
I just noticed you cite to a web site about Sowell,website Those Who Can See. Also Lothrop Stoddard in "Rising Tide of Color,"
I read Sowell's book about the Scots-Irish influence on blacks and found it interesting but not dis-positive. Albion's Seed is long but a great read.

Sowell noted that cultures often benefit from being conquered or conquering others. There are Indian call centers because the British conquered India. The worst fate for a third world country is to never be conquered by a first world country.

Germanic culture is different from French. The book Hitlerland described Germany in the 1920s and 30s, without benefit of hindsight. The author(?) speculated that the Germanic culture was due to the failure of the Romans to conquer them. They remained nature worshipers and often only nominally Christian.

The discussion here on this topic is superior to almost everything in the popular press where no discussion is allowed.


Blogger Unknown July 03, 2020 10:03 PM  

And, what about the chinese laborers working in what I assume dangerous conditions building the USA and Canadian railroads? Or the serfs of imperial Russia should they be acknowledged as suffering from slavery as well?

Blogger Unknown July 03, 2020 10:50 PM  

We have blinders on thinking that the american indian is a homogeneous group or culture, but they are not, they were and are hundreds of different nations and cultures. These nations were and are like other nations, making alliances, competing for resources. I live in an area that was the home of the Wendat-Huron in the 1600s, but they were virtually exterminated by the Iroquois and had to be evacuated to Quebec.

Blogger Unknown July 03, 2020 11:34 PM  

We have blinders on thinking that the american indian is a homogeneous group or culture, but they are not, they were and are hundreds of different nations and cultures. These nations were and are like other nations, making alliances, competing for resources. I live in an area that was the home of the Wendat-Huron in the 1600s, but they were virtually exterminated by the Iroquois and had to be evacuated to Quebec.

Blogger bramley say Enoch woz right July 04, 2020 6:08 AM  

@68 / @69 (double post)

"I live in an area that was the home of the Wendat-Huron in the 1600s, but they were virtually exterminated by the Iroquois and had to be evacuated to Quebec."

As far as i know, some of the worst excesses of Indian inter-tribal conflict were down to the tribes having varying access to European technology and horse culture. I was really surprised to find out the the classic image of the brave on horseback was in fact a recent development in the culture of the Indians, and one that had changed many of the tribal dynamics.

Blogger Damelon Brinn July 04, 2020 7:18 AM  

I just noticed you cite to a web site about Sowell,website Those Who Can See.

Everything there under the Afro-American tag is worth reading on this topic. The post "Why We Profile" is a good one that shows how black criminality has always been several times higher than white, long before the Great Society. That holds true even when you look at other countries that don't have the USA's excuses of "legacy of slavery." And when you take whites out of the equation and let blacks run things themselves, as in Haiti (or Detroit), it gets worse, not better. To the extent that blacks were better behaved in the US in the past, it's because white society was holding them back, but even then there was a large gap.

It's not pleasant reading, but worthwhile if you're stuck on the "blacks were fine before welfare" myth.

Blogger Bellerophon July 04, 2020 8:03 AM  

Is it just me or is the ruling elite/upper social strata of Mexico some of the whitest looking people in the world?

Blogger tuberman July 04, 2020 10:54 AM  

@69 Unknown

"We have blinders on thinking that the american indian is a homogeneous group or culture, but they are not, they were and are hundreds of different nations and cultures."

Yes, the variations were huge. There is an attraction to Paleo tribes as they have oral traditions, so they pass on their heritage through verbal story-telling. Humans lose something in the passing from oral traditions to written, but we gain even more. Books are critical.

Were there 'good tribes' like the one in "Dances With Wolves?" Yes, certainly, if you had good chiefs allied with good spiritual leaders. Yet violence with absolute genocide between tribes and tribal nations were common. Even among tribes that were isolated enough not have to be at war constantly with other tribes, some were dysfunctional. Dysfunctional tribes often had bad internal relations, meaning "the war of everyone against everyone," or hate and contempt was everywhere. The Navajos were a dysfunctional tribe where any tribe member could be accused of being a "Witch." That accusation was a death sentence, as no one could protect you after such an accusation. Revenge groups were the connections remaining in this tribe before 1900 when Whites stopped all this. The death sentences were often more nasty then burning, as victims could get stretched out over an ant hill to be slowly eaten. Hundreds, upon hundreds, perhaps even thousands of Navajos died by revenge groups in the 1800's.

BTW, the Inquisition almost never burned Witches, as that's just other made up Feminist myth. The truth is that over 99% of all Witch Accusations and killings are done by paleo level tribes, or very primitive. By the time Neolithic tribes came into being, Witch Doctors came around, who psychically allowed riffs in the social fabric to be healed without killing the accused.

In Illinois there is Starved Rock where one tribal group genocided another by siege and starvation. The Illinois Nation of tribe were a very violent group of tribes, and the Peoria tribe twice came close to wiping out the Fox Indians. The Fox call themselves the Meskwaki and have lived in Iowa since 1851, and are doing quite well. They are what I consider a good tribe. This history of violence by the Peoria tribe was from the Meskwaki's own oral history written down by an adopted member. The Meskwaki are great horse breeders.

Blogger Steve Marriott July 04, 2020 11:29 AM  

Watched the interview on YT? Just now. They cut the genocide remark.

Blogger Akulkis July 04, 2020 2:57 PM  

@70

>> I was really surprised to find out the the classic image of the brave on horseback was in fact a recent development in the culture of the Indians, and one that had changed many of the tribal dynamics.

There were no equine species anywhere in the New World. Horses are not only exclusively an Old World animal, but also not native to Australia, either.

Blogger Akulkis July 04, 2020 2:58 PM  

@70

>> Is it just me or is the ruling elite/upper social strata of Mexico some of the whitest looking people in the world?

They're all pure-bred SPANISH.

Blogger eclecticmn July 04, 2020 6:46 PM  

@71. Damelon BrinnJuly 04, 2020 7:18 AM
I just noticed you cite to a web site about Sowell,website Those Who Can See.

Everything there under the Afro-American tag is worth reading on this topic. The post "Why We Profile" is a good one that shows how black criminality has always been several times higher than white, long before the Great Society. That holds true even when you look at other countries that don't have the USA's excuses of "legacy of slavery." And when you take whites out of the equation and let blacks run things themselves, as in Haiti (or Detroit), it gets worse, not better. To the extent that blacks were better behaved in the US in the past, it's because white society was holding them back, but even then there was a large gap.


In the book A Troublesome Inheritance, Wade cites some studies on MAO inhibitors, as I recall. Blacks may be genetically inclined toward more violence. I have noticed that Asian cities are never included in lists of the most violent.

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