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Sunday, July 12, 2020

The armchair lawyers

It's really fascinating to see how all these armchair lawyers are crawling out of the woodwork to denounce Owen Benjamin and the Bears for fighting back against deplatforming.
How That Worked Out.

Whatever Owen Benjamin and his fans thought would happen, Patreon’s actual response was to sue 72 of those fanboys. According to that Daily Dot article:

“This lawsuit is about keeping hate speech off of Patreon,” the company told the Daily Dot via email. “We won’t allow former users to extort Patreon, and are moving these frivolous claims to court where they belong.”

Hmm, they don’t sound in the slightest bit nervous about anything. Maybe that’s because they instituted two rules in January to “both [prohibit] users from filing claims based on the platform kicking off someone else and [require] any who do so to pay the company’s attorney’s fees and costs.”

And the fanboys’ claims were filed a solid month later, in February.

Oops!

So it seems unlikely that the fanboys will come anywhere close to success here — and may be on the hook for a lot of money if/when they lose.
And it's even more remarkable to see how they don't let their absolute ignorance of both the facts and the law get in the way of their opinions.

First, Owen never filed a lawsuit. Second, none of the Bears ever filed a lawsuit. This blithering cretin doesn't even know the difference between arbitration and court, despite the quote from Patreon which specifically refers to that difference. Third, Patreon has never once claimed that Owen or any of the Bears ever put any hate speech on their platform, so it's fascinating to be informed that their lawsuit is about a nonexistent event that never happened.

Fourth, two rules weren't instituted in January, they were instituted on December 20, 2019. Fifth, the Bears' claims weren't filed in February, they were filed on January 3, 2020. Of course, the significance of that latter date escapes her, because she clearly knows nothing about 1281.97, otherwise known as Material breach for failure to pay fees before arbitration can proceed, which came into effect on January 1, 2020, and states:

If the fees or costs to initiate an arbitration proceeding are not paid within 30 days after the due date, the drafting party is in material breach of the arbitration agreement, is in default of the arbitration.

Due to its failure to pay the fees within the statute-required time limit, Patreon is currently in material breach of the arbitration agreement and is in default of all 91 of the backer arbitrations. Not only that, but the two rules they applied by deceptively changing the Terms of Use will not allow them to escape their defaulted arbitrations in court because the second rule directly violates 1284.3 (a):

No neutral arbitrator or private arbitration company shall administer a consumer arbitration under any agreement or rule requiring that a consumer who is a party to the arbitration pay the fees and costs incurred by an opposing party if the consumer does not prevail in the arbitration, including, but not limited to, the fees and costs of the arbitrator, provider organization, attorney, or witnesses.

There are other reasons as well, but that's the easiest one for the ignorant to grasp. Perhaps the funniest thing about the article is the way in which it inadvertently demonstrates how Patreon's lawyers simply ignore both California law and the arbitration rules.

"The Parties will not offer as evidence, and the Arbitrator shall neither admit into the record nor consider, prior settlement offers by the Parties."

Anyhow, everyone will know quite a bit more tomorrow, after the judge rules on Patreon's request.

Labels: , ,

60 Comments:

Blogger FUBARwest July 12, 2020 9:08 PM  

The only question is was the writer actually retarded or merely pretending.

Blogger SirHamster July 12, 2020 9:26 PM  

FUBARwest wrote:The only question is was the writer actually retarded or merely pretending.
Woman writer who cited a reddit commenter seriously. Retarded.

Blogger Salt July 12, 2020 9:29 PM  

Patreon filing the class action in opposition to its own stated policy.... lulz.

Blogger Scott Alfter July 12, 2020 9:50 PM  

Any chance the Replatforming might switch away from Patreon? It's the only thing keeping me on Patreon at this point, as everyone else has jumped ship and gone to SubscribeStar or other options.

...or is there a reason it's being kept there?

Blogger Lazarus July 12, 2020 9:59 PM  

The beauty of ignorance is the depth of the conviction.

Blogger glueballs July 12, 2020 10:10 PM  

I amused myself reviewing the litigation. I believe it’ll get kicked back to arbitration except for any buggers who failed to appear and look to be defaulted. They have to show.
Patreon’s handling of this case is really tepid. The baseball equivalent of a brushback or inside pitch only the batter has called the bluff.
The litigation cannot be hidden from the arbitrators, the judge will issue no such order given Randazza’s good brief. And arbitrators pick up on sneaky crap and they tend not to like it.
Defendant’s seem posed to arbitrate and negotiate. Time is running out for Patreon on this game.

Blogger Parasocial Pal July 12, 2020 10:12 PM  

I am legitimately surprised the author here is female, because the tone and word choice so strongly reeks of redditor-fedorista. I wonder if the failure to write in an individually distinct and authentic "voice" is an indicator of SSH position.

If the news is good tomorrow, I suspect this will be hastily removed or amended with some kind of "Akshually, I'm still correct because..."

Blogger Keith July 12, 2020 10:23 PM  

>Instead of learning to play by the rules of the privately-owned companies granting them these accounts

They really can't see how these platform companies are changing the rules on the fly, with the purpose of deliberately stopping anyone who appears to be effective at rallying and keeping a large group of supporters outside of the left-wing thought universe.

I wish I could emcee a game of musical chairs (where I get to control the music) and show them how easy it is to make anyone I want to be the winner in such a setup.

Blogger anorganicbear July 12, 2020 10:25 PM  

Are they paid to be this stupid, or is this volunteer work for them?

Blogger VFM #7634 July 12, 2020 10:36 PM  

More evidence that the SJW portion of the human race is rapidly evolving toward Idiocracy, while the rest is at least less affected.

Blogger MugenBear July 12, 2020 10:45 PM  

Obviously the Ladder.

Blogger Daniel July 12, 2020 10:58 PM  

The Bear should sue her, either for defamation or for joke-stealing. I'm pretty sure she lifted her best material from an episode of Shylock Holmes.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 12, 2020 11:11 PM  

It's important to know the law. It might be more important to know the judge. Patreon's lawyers might have some idea of how the judge will react. Or, they might be utterly, criminally incompetent

Blogger SciVo July 12, 2020 11:17 PM  

FUBARwest, I re-assert that I do not care whether someone is crazy, stupid, and/or a liar. I am not psychic and it is not worth my time to try and discern the difference. It is enough for me to know that (in one or more respects) they're a crazy/stupid/liar, since I would disbelieve them all the same.

Blogger Ray - SoCal July 12, 2020 11:17 PM  

Virtue Signalling to show how smart they are by cheer leading the approved narrative.
>was the writer actually retarded or merely pretending.

Blogger Joe July 12, 2020 11:25 PM  

This demonstrates why Rekieta loves mocking Law Twitter. It's the same sort of stupidity.

Blogger nono July 12, 2020 11:28 PM  

He was just following the lead of cameltoelapton or whatever he calls himself over at his blog and vile 770.

Blogger Unknown July 12, 2020 11:35 PM  

Using the Marxist's favorite term to mock free speech...
Using the Marxist technique of applying the most unflattering interpretation to every statement or event...
Using the Marxist view of everyone to the right of Stalin as a right wing extremist...

Check, Check, and Check.

I guess we know who we're dealing with.

Blogger J Van Stry July 12, 2020 11:58 PM  

It's amazing what people think the law means, especially when they've never read it. The stuff I saw during my recent copyright lawsuit often made me shake my head.

Then of course all the things the other side and their supporters were accusing me of. It's like who are they trying to influence? The judge doesn't read their crap. Neither does anyone outside of their echo chamber.

What I learned about the 'tech' press is that ONE person writes the article, usually on some small unheard of site. Then everyone else just copies it and maybe changes a couple of words.

They're just whistling past the graveyard.

Blogger Kat July 13, 2020 12:03 AM  

OT, but can anyone shed some light on the Sessions/Tuberville debacle? Trump has thrown his weight behind Tuberville who, by all I've seen, is just another RINO. Remembering the Roy Moore dumpster fire I don't want to vote against TGE lest he wash his hands of Alabama, but I'm not excited about Tuberville either.

Blogger Kordl July 13, 2020 12:07 AM  

I laughed out loud at that, well done.

Blogger jkmack July 13, 2020 1:09 AM  

and uncharacteristic amount of ***crickets*** on this post.

heh.

Blogger Gallant July 13, 2020 1:18 AM  

I know more about civil court than I’d like to - and that you can file against anyone for anything but that does not mean you’ll get through the nonsense and win.

I think of all the points SDL made one is the simplest: why are they going to court at all, if the arbitration was going their way?

Blogger Beardy Bear July 13, 2020 1:23 AM  

@1 Female. Never been punched in the face.

Blogger FreedMind0102 July 13, 2020 1:36 AM  

What a disgusting, incestuous clique this all is. I know I should not be surprised by now but these freaks giving play by play on something that doesn't concern them at all is proof we are over the target and engaged with one of their allies

Blogger Jon P. R. July 13, 2020 1:45 AM  

This situation with the replatforming and Owen's and Vox's commentaries on it has been a wonderful demonstration of what gamma behavior is and of how the gammas perceive themselves while behaving in such ways.

I've understood the reality of the situation since Vox first went over some of the details, but I still feel this discomfort in reading articles like the dailydot's or the one on whatever crap site this 'patheos' place is. I have no desire to argue with those people or do anything to "try and show them the reality" they are too stupid to grasp, but it's still just gross or something to read about the retarded conclusions they have come to and how absolutely certain they all are about them.

Reading their insults toward anyone not mentally disabled as they are doesn't bother me a bit though. I can't figure out why their insults don't evoke any response in me while their publicized (and very easily countered) false claims seem like they could make me fairly angry if I were to read enough.

Maybe as this continues I'll be gifted the answer as to why via further demonstrations of such clearly gamma behavior from team patreon.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( The first rule of Dunning-Kruger Club is that you don't know you're in Dunning-Kruger Club ) July 13, 2020 1:45 AM  

writing an article titled "How that worked out" before we know how it's going to work out is a peculiar bit of genius
...
assuming you get the answer right.

Blogger The Greay Man July 13, 2020 2:07 AM  

'Captain Cassidy".

How does he even have the strength to get out of bed in the morning to post shameless cuckery with a name like that?

Blogger The CronoLink July 13, 2020 2:20 AM  

Disgusting, ignorant, malicious churchian.

Blogger Shane Bradman July 13, 2020 2:28 AM  

B-but Vox! They've claimed victory before the results are out! Don't you know that means they win automatically?

Blogger DroppingBear July 13, 2020 2:33 AM  

Written by an athiest in her mid forties with no children and only a cat named'princess bother pretty toes' to show for her 'productive' career driven life.
Can't make this shit up.

Blogger Balam July 13, 2020 2:44 AM  

She's an atheist who drones on and on about her cat and how much she hates Christianity. What do you think?

Blogger Shimshon July 13, 2020 3:11 AM  

@1 FUBARwest, gammas do lie to themselves incessantly. If those are your only two choices, they are not pretending.

Blogger Akulkis July 13, 2020 3:21 AM  

@1 I'm pretty sure he's pretending to be retarded, but doesn't realize that only a retard would pretend to be retarded.

Anonymous Anonymous July 13, 2020 3:31 AM  

It's often interesting to see the mental gymnastics when the narrative fails. If Vox is right (and I know where I'd put my money) then the next few days should see quite a bit of ex post facto narrative 'adjustments'. The other response is, of course, to declare victory and never mention the topic ever again, then denounce as a nazi and ban anyone who raises it.

Blogger VD July 13, 2020 3:55 AM  

Patreon's lawyers might have some idea of how the judge will react.

They don't. His signature decision was facing down the entire San Francisco business community and the Chamber of Commerce. He graduated from Princeton in 1978 and is observably capable of seeing through all the "it could be argued" nonsense.

The decision in that case was exactly correct. "You're wrong and the tax is not unconstitutional for the obvious reason that people voting in a local citizen's initiative are not the CA state legislature."

Blogger Dan in Georgia July 13, 2020 4:21 AM  

Scott Alfter wrote:Any chance the Replatforming might switch away from Patreon? It's the only thing keeping me on Patreon at this point, as everyone else has jumped ship and gone to SubscribeStar or other options.

...or is there a reason it's being kept there?


Bait to get them to ban Castalia House so they can experience what European courts do to American Tech companies that violate EU law.

Blogger Dan in Georgia July 13, 2020 4:50 AM  

Kat wrote:I'm not excited about Tuberville

If I end up moving to Alabama by the voter registration deadline, I'll be voting for Sessions. Either way, one of them will be in the Senate in January. The whole Trump/Sessions feud is a show for the media. Trump picked Sessions as AG because he was the only guy in the Senate who was not owned by the Deep State. All of the investigations that led to the recent arrests/indictments were started by Sessions.

It's his seat, he deserves to have it back.

Blogger Twisted Root July 13, 2020 5:44 AM  

I'm fascinated to see whether or not a court will take on a commercial dispute overriding an arbitration system set up specifically for the purpose of relieving that court of the burden.

Arbitrators are notoriously perfunctory in their application of what the law says.

In either situation the amount of hate speech uttered or offence taken has, to date, not had an effect on the outcome.

Blogger Jon P. R. July 13, 2020 6:01 AM  

Well today is the day the judge addresses patreon's terms-violating group injunction.

I fully expect an apocalypse-cult style doubling down by the people who are so sure all the arbitrations are "frivolous." It will be interesting to see where they setup the new goal post.

Blogger jijijeac July 13, 2020 6:23 AM  

this seems a slam dunk case in favour of benjamin. only thing I am worried about is the judge will favour patreon to keep a big tech company alive for the sake of the economy. that is how they usually win.

Blogger MC July 13, 2020 6:36 AM  

Duda wins Poland election against combined might of GloboHomo and Lugenpresse

Blogger B-Rex July 13, 2020 8:17 AM  

Have the Bears started picking what they will rename patreon yet? should we do a poll?

Blogger Dark glasses Woody July 13, 2020 8:38 AM  

I do wonder how differently things might have turned out for this paper tigress if she had been prettier, or if she had been loved more or if she had known more good and beautiful and true. Then again perhaps there was nothing that could have lit within her the flame of truth, perhaps she was made a child of the dark.

Blogger Bernard Korzeniewicz July 13, 2020 8:47 AM  

OT to rise the morale:
- despite the treason in his own camp,
- despite the CoV19 hysteria,
- despite Berlin+Globohomo media offensive

the +/- nationalistic president Duda won the re-election.
The reeeeeeek in my offfice was epic:)

Blogger Section 8A July 13, 2020 8:50 AM  

The snark, the tone, the 6th grade level word choice, the cliche' ... who reads that stuff on that woman's blog?

That I exist in the same realm as that person is unreal. I have a atavistic disgust for those kind of people.

Blogger Wraithburn July 13, 2020 9:09 AM  

@44

Looking over the article, she mentions toxic Christianity with a link to a long article decrying zealotry. In it, she mentions how she used to be a Christian herself. She had the truth and she gave it up.

Blogger Alexander July 13, 2020 9:28 AM  

Section 8A wrote:The snark, the tone, the 6th grade level word choice, the cliche' ... who reads that stuff on that woman's blog?

Most likely gamma orbiters who drool at the thought of a woman who falsely confirms their own flawed biases.

Blogger Nostromo July 13, 2020 9:30 AM  

This was my immediate thought. With the nonsense we see from every level and branch of government, I wouldn't trust them if they told me the sky was blue. Lets hold the celebrations until actual victory, please.

Blogger CostelloM July 13, 2020 9:56 AM  

Its too bad the CHAZ experiment is officially dead. The only way forward for Patreon would be to win a change of venue to that location.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 13, 2020 10:29 AM  

Wraithburn wrote:In it, she mentions how she used to be a Christian herself. She had the truth and she gave it up.
Christian? Or churchian? The false churches inoculate people against the truth: they think they have tried Christianity and it failed them, but what they tried was a sham.

When Satan converges a denomination he not only destroys something of God's, he also has a trap, a delusion of Christianity, to snare the unwary. Our ancestors were wiser than we. Burning heretics was a good thing.

Blogger Chief_Tuscaloosa July 13, 2020 10:31 AM  

Kat wrote:
I'm not excited about Tuberville

You ain't the only one. Tuberville is on record in his own voice saying essentially illegal immigration is needed cuz business owners need workers. Tuberville also claimed he voted for Trump, but he's not been registered to vote for like 10 years.

Sessions on the other hand has an A+ rating from Numbers USA, has been a fierce advocate for stopping illegal immigration for DECADES PRIOR TO TRUMP. So Sessions MIGHT be an idiot Eagle scout for recusing himself from Russia investigation, but if he was Deep State he would have actively done something to do in Trump. Also Sessions endorsed Trump earlier than anyone else.

Primary runoff is tomorrow people. Vote "Si!" for Tuberville at your own risk.

Blogger FALPhil July 13, 2020 11:18 AM  

Christian? Or churchian? The false churches inoculate people against the truth: they think they have tried Christianity and it failed them, but what they tried was a sham.

Exactly. God is sovereign. What he has, he cannot lose. She is a child of the dark. Too bad for her.

Blogger FALPhil July 13, 2020 11:19 AM  

Tuberville is on record in his own voice saying essentially illegal immigration is needed cuz business owners need workers.

I thought that was the official GOP position.

Blogger SirHamster July 13, 2020 12:06 PM  

Jon P. R. wrote:Reading their insults toward anyone not mentally disabled as they are doesn't bother me a bit though. I can't figure out why their insults don't evoke any response in me while their publicized (and very easily countered) false claims seem like they could make me fairly angry if I were to read enough.
Insults are about subjective status, but false claims are about objective reality. They go through different mental paths.

An insult shows the Gamma doesn't like you; but they're low status losers, so no one cares. You are not a loser like them, so you intuitively ignore the insult. You'd care if a high status person said it, but that didn't happen.

False claims are lies about what reality is, and everyone has to deal with reality. The discomfort and anger is the reality-processing part of your brain telling you that this guy is polluting your perception of reality. The discomfort signals that you need to do something about it.

The fact that the false claims are easily countered intensifies the discomfort because it means he is an enemy trying to baffle you with bullshit, or that he is actively stupid. Either case makes him an enemy to your survival.

At least, that would be the case if he were in your actual social circle. Your brain thinks anything you interact with is near and real, but a lot of stupidity on the Internet is not near or real.

But the point is that your discomfort is good; it means the reality perceiving part of your brain is working correctly. Lies should always be uncomfortable, because you care what truth and reality are.

Then you discharge the discomfort by noticing that these stupid losers are just making fools of themselves, and that everyone who matters sees through their lies. They are not a threat to your perception of reality or your survival.

Blogger Akulkis July 13, 2020 1:10 PM  

>> cameltoelapton or whatever he calls himself

Cameltoe Fapatron.

Blogger damaris.tighe July 13, 2020 10:54 PM  

@Vox Day

@Sargon is apparently stunned/amazed/impressed.
Guess he should talk to you guys.

Blogger All Day Coffee break July 14, 2020 10:43 PM  

So... Yes?

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