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Saturday, August 01, 2020

It is a possibility

I don't know who Tim Pool is, but he is warning his 584k subscribers about the demise of Patreon:
If you still use Patreon you should consider warning your subscribers about potential disruption

Due to the legal defeat they recently faced some lawyers are speculating that Patreon will collapse under the weight of legal costs

You Could LOSE Your entire income stream
I just think it's funny they still don't understand how many people want to burn them down to the ground and dance on the glowing cinders.

The way the whole situation has evolved is rather interesting. For generations, companies have understood very clearly that they had to maintain positive relationships with their customers in order to stay in business. Hence the outmoded corporate doctrine that "the customer is always right".

However, the combination of practical monopolies and the venture-to-IPO model has tended to sever the historical link between the consumer and the corporation, to the point that many technology companies no longer depend upon their consumers for their operating income. To the contrary, they have transformed consumers into users that are nothing more than raw material for their real customers. This is why they simply don't possess a culture of giving a damn about their users, let alone harboring any regard for a single user they don't like for one reason or another.

Their problem is their failure to understand that although the technology corporations are not financially dependent upon consumers, they nevertheless possess the same legal responsibilities toward their consumers that they did before, so their survival still relies upon maintaining the good will of the very users they now regard as irrelevant. And, as I noted in Corporate Cancer, because they remain caught between the Scylla of class action litigation - now complete with jury trials - and the Charybdis of mass individual arbitration, there is no way to legally finesse their way out of the situation.

Even worse, every attempt to legally thread the needle by their legal Odysseuses only renders them more vulnerable to being held responsible for the deceptive practices that are necessarily involved, such as Patreon's false, misleading, and unenforceable "waivers" on class action and trial-by-jury.

The only way out is to accept the fact that their continued survival requires the goodwill of their users, but this necessitates a fundamental change in corporate culture that may not be possible for more than a few converged technology corporations.

Labels: ,

100 Comments:

Blogger maniacprovost August 01, 2020 1:32 PM  

The real question here is how to pluralize "Odysseus."

I submit "Odysseodes" for consideration.

Blogger Ben Dahl August 01, 2020 1:40 PM  

Tim Pool has a big following. Independent journalist who used to work for Vice and some others I think. He talked to Jack Dorsey about censorship on Rogan. Fun to watch. Tim Pool does good stuff.

Blogger Bernard Korzeniewicz August 01, 2020 1:42 PM  

I have talk to my confessor.
Reading this blog creeps closer and closer to watching an immoral movies.
Pardon my French but SDL does everybody…

Blogger IAMSpartacus0000 August 01, 2020 1:42 PM  

How many of these tech companies will be open to the Patreon effect?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 01, 2020 1:58 PM  

Tech startups in Silicon valley work on a different basis that real companies. Normal companies sell products or services to ordinary people. Since they are dependent on the people who use the product or service, they make sure not to alienate them.
Venture-funded tech companies are dependent on investors, not customers. They usually operate at a substantial loss, but even the few profitable ones operate explicitly in hope f a huge payday, when they get bought out by another company, or they go public and can offload the stock onto the market at a huge premium.
Their only concern is not what their customers or potential customers think of them. It is what the potential investors think of them. Since the Venture Capitalist culture in Silicon Valley is pure woke bullshit, that's what they try to play up to. Offending their users, banning them, co-ordinating with other tech companies to destroy them is all part of trying to appeal to the people the really care about.

Blogger tublecane August 01, 2020 1:58 PM  

@1- Odyssei.

Blogger Nate73 August 01, 2020 2:04 PM  

What would happen if these companies went away from arbitration back to the courts but still prohibited you in the TOS from class-action claims? At least then individual filing of lawsuits would require more than $250 filing fee.

Blogger S1AL August 01, 2020 2:10 PM  

@1- Odyssei.

Odysseus is Greek, not Latin. Odysseodes is "more correct".

And sillier.

Blogger VD August 01, 2020 2:13 PM  

What would happen if these companies went away from arbitration back to the courts but still prohibited you in the TOS from class-action claims?

Lots of class-action lawsuits. Those class-action waivers are totally unenforceable in California and violate the deceptive practices law.

They'll try to play the choice-of-law game, but all that will do is make the lawyers find a single California consumer to act as the flagship claimant and they'll lose the initial battle over the relevant law.

Blogger Dwayne Thundergrit August 01, 2020 2:20 PM  

I don't think it's a case of 'may not be possible', I think it's a case of from the start these companies being sold to investors as a means to dictate to consumers rather than persuading consumers.

Blogger Crew August 01, 2020 2:24 PM  

I love the smell of roasting converged companies in the morning!

Blogger Noah B. August 01, 2020 2:27 PM  

It's pretty amazing that they refuse to do the one thing that can save their company. I guess that's the nature of Corporate Cancer.

Blogger Doom August 01, 2020 2:29 PM  

I have to wonder, with what is happening with Patreon, assuming president Trump is actually interested and involved, if an executive order... along the lines of one recently printed, could jiggle the wagon for a funner, faster, ride.

If you actually have a lawfare group, let them contemplate what sort of e.o. might be written, and how, and present that to the C.I. Chief. It isn't bad to have one friendly ear, with a pen and paper. *wink*

Blogger thechortling August 01, 2020 2:48 PM  

>>many technology companies no longer depend upon their consumers for their operating income. <<

Almost as though they are viewed as NPCs by the SJW leadership of said companies

The horror. The hypocrisy. The predictability of SJWs being the very monsters they publicly claim to fear but privately worship with Wojack blood sacrifice.

Blogger RadixMalorum August 01, 2020 2:51 PM  

Tim Pool is a mid-wit leftist faux centrist gatekeeper. He's basically a slightly leftier Sargon of Akkad.

The guy has some pretty bad takes and his last several predictions have failed utterly. The only one that's plausible is his recent prediction of a civil conflict in the US but that's just being captain obvious.

Blogger Ransom Smith August 01, 2020 2:57 PM  

A buddy of mine had a program he was working on that attracted some interest of VC firms while he was still very much in beta.
I tried to steer him aggressively away from that. Even the decent well intentioned startups get swallowed by the VCs who desperately just want to make their money in the IPO.

Blogger VD August 01, 2020 3:00 PM  

Tim Pool is a mid-wit leftist faux centrist gatekeeper.

That's good news, then, if even guys like him are beginning to get it.

Blogger Cynic In Chief August 01, 2020 3:01 PM  

The fires crackled through the night as the army prepared for battle. Tomorrow they charge into battle against the mighty Patreon. Under the night sky, the moon (which does not exist) illuminates the characters as they keep watch and prepare their weapons.

The noisiest of the bunch are the Bears, whose loud roars signifying "the Earth is flat" and "dinosaurs aren't real" are overshadowed by the sharpness of their claws and the strength of their teeth. They have won the first skirmish, they will lead the charge against Patreon to maul and cripple their prey.

The Dread Ilk are quieter, though that is because they are hard at work sharpening their blades, arrows, and lances. Their talk revolves about the slowest and most painful way to dispatch their foes, tormenting the small minds of SJWs before they finally expire, along with mockery of the enemies tactics. Called by the Dark Lord from the various caves among the land, they are eager to enter the battle to torture and torment the enemy.

The Vile Faceless Minions await patiently, their frenzied nature kept in check by the promise of long awaited blood. Long have they awaited a feast, the bones of the SJW that IndieGoGo threw to them gnawed to splinters many months back. IndieGoGo has prospered much since they knelt before the Dark Lord and his hoards, Patreon will not be so fortunate.

The Dark Lord’s advisors, the Legal Legion of Evil quietly discuss the upcoming battle. Some talk of Patreon’s surrender, laying out the terms of the heavy tribute that will be required. Others talk of tactics, having successfully lead the Bears to victory in the first skirmish and eager to repeat their success.

Marc Randazza sits in the corner, counting his gold. Though he is only a mercenary, he secretly admires his allies strength and effectiveness while being concerned with their savagery and cruelty. Patreon may not have superior numbers, tactics, or intelligence, but they are quite stubborn and will most certainly fight to the death. It will not be so easy a battle as IndieGoGo was.

And last but certainly not the least, the Supreme Dark Lord broods over a pile of books titled "Advanced CA Lawyer", planning his moves. Like the clever Xanatos, his strategies always end in some form of win, but he constantly looks for a flaw in his plan and makes corrections to ensure he gets the greatest success. As he sips his glass of wine, he wishes it wouldn't have come to this. If only Patreon had bent the knee, he could be sitting in his dark castle writing his long-awaited tome. Patreon will suffer much for their insolence, not one of them will remain when the battle is through.

The creators on Patreon await with a gathering sense of gloom. Many have fled, with Tim Poole the last to ring the alarm bells. Others prepare for flight, ready to travel to the neighboring SubscribeStar, which is currently at peace with the Dark Lord. The rest wait with dread as the fires of the Dark Army glow on the horizon. Through the night, they can hear the roars of the Bears, the derisive laughter of the Dread Ilk, and the maniacal howls of the Vile Faceless Minions hungry for their leader’s flesh.

The leaders and SJWs of Patreon drink and party through the night. Like the Germans before the fall of Berlin, there is nothing left to be done. If their mercenary army of lawyers and their walls of TOS changes fall, there is nothing left to be done. While their hearts are secretly filled with fear and dread, they publicly pretend that everything is good. They cannot let themselves dwell on the destruction that is coming for them or the agony they will experience as they are crushed by the Dark Army.

The final battle is coming. The wrath of the Dark Lord is great, and there will be no survivors.

Blogger Unseen11 August 01, 2020 3:02 PM  

Will owen turn Patreon into his tributary like vox did with indiegogo or burn it down to its frames though?

Blogger map August 01, 2020 3:10 PM  

It dawned on me watching Zuckerberg talk about how his company sells “advertising” that this is an utter and complete misunderstanding of how digital media companies actually make money. This “advertising” meme is simply to create the illusion that the consumer is somehow king, with companies desperate to know what you want by analyzing Facebook data and then delivering ads through the Facebook homepage.

This is not what is happening. The goal is not to figure out what you want and then provide it for you. They know what you want because they can see what you bought. The goal is to charge you more for what you already buy. The system is not trying to figure out what kind of wine Vox really likes and then match him with those providers of wine. The system is trying to sell his eating habits to health insurance companies so they can bill him higher premiums.

Basically, their business model is to get around the law of one price. In a retail store, the retailer has to guess what price a popular crock pot might sell for, then they have to display and advertise that price to anyone who walks by. If the price is $70, then the crockpot will sell to anyone who would pay that price or more. The person who would pay $100 will buy it for $70. The person who will pay $70 will buy it for $70. The person who would pay $40 won’t buy at all. In the market, the crockpot would generate only $140 in revenue.

Enter digital media. The goal here is to sell the crockpot to the consumer who will pay $100, to the one who will pay $70 and to the one who will pay $40. The result is $210 in revenue, a 50% increase. Their model is granular price discrimination all along the demand curve. Amazon’s ecosystem can easily achieve such an effect by sandboxing your account and only feeding you the highest possible prices their data indicates that you will pay, but Google, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc. all have similar systems in place. Ironically, retail stores are the only reason why prices on Amazon haven’t skyrocketed. They represent the ceiling on what Amazon can charge.

In other words, the more you use social and digital media, the more money it will cost you. This is, incidentally, why these digital companies have such high valuations, when their business models allow the capture of such massive consumer surplus.

This is an entirely parasitic business model that should be illegal. It should be illegal to use any user data for marketing purposes unless explicit written consent is provided by the consumer. No, not a eula, a lawyer who comes to your door and explains what Facebook wants to do with your data, that you then agree to through a contract.

Blogger map August 01, 2020 3:14 PM  

OT:

And, of course, the lying never ends.

https://twitter.com/rooshv/status/1288643905832079362

Blogger 1LLoyd August 01, 2020 3:14 PM  

Tim Poole is a self-professed liberal centrist journalist who actually believes in reporting, truth, and the far left is crazy. Over the last couple of year I have heard him complain about the lying media forcing him to defend Trump and how the media twists things. He is as honest as a man can be, and will change his mind. Example: six to eight months ago, he said he'd never own a gun, and didn't need to because there are police. Last month, he bought two and started taking shooting lessons.

No fan of Patreon, he has been following the case, and seems to have a good grasp of the realities.

Blogger Gregory the Tall August 01, 2020 3:15 PM  

Their legal Odysseuses are reminiscent of the companions of Odysseus whom Circe turned into swine: no vision left in their brains but the thought of their troughs.

Blogger Crew August 01, 2020 3:18 PM  

As a matter of correct terminology, did Owen ask his fans who were affected by the Patreon decision to 'sue' Patreon, or did he ask them to take Patreon to arbitration over their decision.

The #LyingMSM are casting it as 'suing Patreon' and were all predicting that Owen and his supporters would lose.

Blogger dangerdog August 01, 2020 3:20 PM  

Now that the embers of IndieGoGo are dying down, I could do with Patreon fire to keep me warm.

Blogger thethirdcoast August 01, 2020 3:23 PM  

I place Tim Pool as a semi-reformed liberal that has begun to accept reality for what it is.

I wouldn't say he's reformed as much as old-school liberal Jim Kunstler, who almost sounds like a dyed-in-the-wool MAGA guy these days.

Blogger Crew August 01, 2020 3:26 PM  

This article suggests that big-tech will challenge the CA laws under which Owen's fans seem to have been successful:

https://www.sgtreport.com/2020/07/dissident-us-comedian-set-to-deal-massive-legal-blow-to-big-tech-censors-owen-benjamin/

It claims they will challenge to the Supreme Court.

While it is early days yet, is that possible?

Blogger MATT August 01, 2020 3:37 PM  

Succinctly put. It always seemed strange to me why they harbor such strong resentment for customers. I just assumed it was becauae they're vile leftists who never earned a dime on their own, as I've noticed the same attitude in the hipster trustfund small business owners in Brooklyn, etc. Of course they usually go under in 2 years.

Blogger Jack Ward August 01, 2020 3:40 PM  

My puzzling problem right now which is/was more entertaining; Hugo dustup or Patreon.
Close call that....
Interesting how these things seem to swirl around Vox Day. I wonder if there is anyone or any organizations these days that would dare to go against him and his crew? Unless they had no other choice. Bad place to be in for them.
Other problem right now is that I'm getting really tired of the taste of popcorn.

Blogger Rabid Ratel August 01, 2020 3:44 PM  

@Cynic in Chief :- Truth indeed is much better than fiction! Wonderful and funny, thanks.

VD wrote:Tim Pool is a mid-wit leftist faux centrist gatekeeper.

That's good news, then, if even guys like him are beginning to get it.


He is slowly getting redpilled, like the dread ilk contemplating above. Quite painful to watch, but also funny, in a dark way.

Blogger Dole August 01, 2020 3:45 PM  

@15 A gate-keeper or the torch bearer for the misguided? Tim Pool is constantly sliding to the right. He started as a Bernie supporter in 2016, and today his co-host is declaring he will vote for Trump and has "never been more stoked to vote for anybody in his entire life". His "midwitness" does not bother me as he does not claim to be anything else. That's the reason for his shows astounding success - it is for normies, and lands on the side of truth rather than evil. I suspect he has to make the choice soon - if that did not occur already.

So yes he is a liberal, but has clearly caught that there is something very, very wrong with the prometheans. Now lay that torch on Patreon.

Blogger nrthrn stncrft August 01, 2020 3:46 PM  

It is fun to see all this popping up on corporate media. Hoping it shows 'conservatives' what a fight looks like. It must put some serious doubt in the mind of an average Ben Shapiro supporter.

Blogger Seeingsights August 01, 2020 3:47 PM  

1. Tim Pool is an independent journalist. He talks like a centrist in his videos because he seeks to maximize his audience size. But he is left-of-center, he has supported Tulsi Gabbard and Bernie Sanders. To Tim Pool's credit, he is anti-tech censorship and anti-war.
Come to think of it, he's probably preferable to neo-cons, who would gladly invade the world and who don't care about tech censorship, because of muh free market.

2. I agree that the combination of practical monopolies and the venture-to-IPO model has tended to sever the historical link between the consumer and the corporation, to the point that many technology companies no longer depend upon their consumers for their operating income. I would also add that there are companies that do not depend on income from their consumers, but from advertisers. For example, YouTube is an operating loss for Alphabet. One source of income for YouTube is advertising. I watched a 15 min YouTube video today which had two ads. I do not recall two ads in a YouTube video five years ago. YouTube is making itself palatable to advertisers by throwing out (de-platforming) the noisy folks in the room.

3. I'm optimistic that any company can eliminate a SJW viral infection. All it takes is the CEO to enact the cure. For example, Red Bull's global CEO fired woke executives.

Blogger VD August 01, 2020 3:56 PM  

While it is early days yet, is that possible?

No. The author has no idea what he's talking about. The relevant issues have already been settled by the California Supreme Court.

They are not federal matters.

Anyone who thinks Big Tech is going to try to fight this out does not understand the issues involved. The ground they on which they are standing has already been lost. The issues are already settled.

Blogger Linus August 01, 2020 3:58 PM  

"They'll try to play the choice-of-law game, but all that will do is make the lawyers find a single California consumer to act as the flagship claimant and they'll lose the initial battle over the relevant law."

I do a lot of insurance defense in CA, and the crazy anti-employer statutory scheme these ignorant assholes have been creating over the last few decades has come home to roost.

Burn it down, sift the ashes, salt the earth.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella August 01, 2020 4:00 PM  

Robert Kyncl, of youtube, wrote a book called Streampunks. He has a very definite view of freedom: young men with blue hair running around in dresses is freedom. Young men making Auschwitz jokes while playing video games is not freedom.

He is from a former Soviet, so, on one hand, is positively gleeful about rolling around in money, and, on the other hand, a bit vague about how Western markets work- as in, there can be more than one viewpoint.

Blogger Franz Lyonheart August 01, 2020 4:15 PM  

Again, Vox remains the “one who must not be named“. Tim Pool mentions Lauren Southern, but not even Owen. Lauren mentions only Owen, but not Vox.

Although I haven’t watched TV in about 7 or more years (not even a minute, not even in hotel rooms), I do have some insider info into the TV production industry. Same there: everybody knows “about“ Vox, nobody admits it, his name remains unutterable.

Strange ...

Blogger bramley says "Enoch was right" August 01, 2020 4:23 PM  

Tim Pool is ok. Approximate to approved content, but seemingly not for any big money pay-off.

He's very touchy about having gone bald. Maybe you could give him some tips, Vox.

Blogger SirHamster August 01, 2020 4:24 PM  

Crew wrote:As a matter of correct terminology, did Owen ask his fans who were affected by the Patreon decision to 'sue' Patreon, or did he ask them to take Patreon to arbitration over their decision.

The #LyingMSM are casting it as 'suing Patreon' and were all predicting that Owen and his supporters would lose.

The latter.

Patreon's ToS demands that users talk first, and then go to arbitration for dispute resolution. So Owen and a number of Bears talked with Patreon and then started arbitration when talks failed to come to a resolution.

Patreon breaking their own ToS to sue their users to try to halt the arbitration gives you a good idea of where they think this is all going.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer August 01, 2020 4:24 PM  

Its not exactly news that if you aren't paying for the service then you're the product.

Blogger Avalanche August 01, 2020 4:25 PM  

@5 "Offending their users, banning them, co-ordinating with other tech companies to destroy them is all part of trying to appeal to the people the really care about."

Yeah, right up until they've lost so many custo... er ... USERS that the company folds and the VCs all slink away unhappy; and vowing to never do business with THAT pack of tech builders ever again. OOPS!

Blogger Avalanche August 01, 2020 4:29 PM  

15 "Tim Pool is a mid-wit leftist faux centrist gatekeeper."

Thank you, RadixMalorum. I listened to so Tim Pool a while back, and he was a milksop civnat, who seemed to think that somehow "we could all play nice." Even now, his YT titles will catch my eye, but then it's Tim Pool, so I'll look for someone ELSE discussing that topic! Too frustrating, makes me want to grab his non-existent lapels and shake him hard!

Blogger Section 8A August 01, 2020 4:29 PM  

Tim Pool was one of the independent journalists at Occupy Wall St. His timing was good as that was the time to put out a shingle as an 'independent journalist'. The internet was young. He gobbled his first red pill because they looked at his white looking self and told him to go to the back of the line - intersectionality don't you know...

He said 'but i'm part asian and i grew up in the bad neighborhood'!!!

They told him to sit down and be quiet anyway, and stay at the back of the line. No one wants to hear from mister Honky.

Say what you want about Pool, this punch in the face made him immune to the Siren Song of the SJW.....

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 01, 2020 4:30 PM  

Crew wrote:While it is early days yet, is that possible?
It is possible, of course. As a general rule, the courts are not required to hear civil appeals, though some states have a rule that you get one try at appeals court.
They're just making noise. By their own testimony in their failed suit, they don't have enough money to stay in business if they have to start paying JAMS. The court's attitude is best summed up as "This is exactly what you demanded. Tough luck."

Blogger Yossarian August 01, 2020 4:36 PM  

Franz Lyonheart wrote:Again, Vox remains the “one who must not be named“. Tim Pool mentions Lauren Southern, but not even Owen. Lauren mentions only Owen, but not Vox.

Tim Pool is incapable of removing his own hat. Never forget this.

Blogger Dole August 01, 2020 5:08 PM  

Tim Pool has mentioned Benjamin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHzEJ6ESRY8

Patreon also called Tim Pool explaining the reason why Sargon was banned. He believed they lied, but it does not matter as they still confessed to acting against their own TOS. Further, spreading such information to other people may itself be illegal. Pool can possibly confess once the class action lawsuits hit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEoYpHY69WI

Blogger SciVo August 01, 2020 5:08 PM  

@maniacprovost:

The real question here is how to pluralize "Odysseus."

I submit "Odysseodes" for consideration.


I prefer "Odysseada" as an analogue to octopada.

Blogger Damelon Brinn August 01, 2020 5:08 PM  

Tim Pool is a mid-wit leftist faux centrist gatekeeper.

I don't know if he's pretending to be centrist so much as, like many on the left, he thinks he actually is in the center, because that's where the mainstream says the center is.

I first noticed him when the Berkeley scraps with Antifa were going on a couple years ago. I don't think it was what he expected, but he reported on it honestly enough, and that earned him the ire of leftists on the scene. I don't follow him because I'm not interested in the opinion of liberals, even honest ones, but it's probably not a bad thing that a few like him exist to aggravate their comrades.

Blogger Up from the pond August 01, 2020 5:10 PM  

>>"I think [that] from the start these companies [are] being sold to investors as a means [of dictating] to consumers rather than persuading consumers."

Right. What these large investors seek is power; their investment is a tool. The fiat surfeit is fuelling much mischief.

Blogger tuberman August 01, 2020 5:12 PM  

I read some comments by Tim Pool about two months ago, and that was enough to decide that he doesn't understand much of anything.

Blogger Up from the pond August 01, 2020 5:15 PM  

>>"I think [that] from the start these companies [are] being sold to investors as a means [of dictating] to consumers rather than persuading consumers."

Right. These large investors seek power, their investment is a tool. The fiat surfeit is fuelling such mischief.

Blogger Pencil Maestro August 01, 2020 5:26 PM  

Is Subscribestar a good alternative to Patreon for artists?

Blogger Joe A. August 01, 2020 5:46 PM  

One can only hope more Patreon-like companies self-implode in the near-future.

Blogger Jim August 01, 2020 5:49 PM  

It's funny listening to Tim Pool's podcasts as the vegan hippy he has co-hosting has gotten more red-pilled and gone full MAGA.

He's a good egg, but his insistence on being a milquetoast fence-sitter is also a case study in the power of identity to overcome what you see and even acknowledge to be true.

Blogger steb August 01, 2020 5:51 PM  

It will be interesting to see if this makes the VCs step in and crush the SJW contingents in their companies or, rather if it makes sane investors (and employees) run away from woke companies, leaving them to lurch even further to the left and abandon the profit motive altogether, reinventing themselves as social purpose corporations.

Blogger RadixMalorum August 01, 2020 5:55 PM  

tuberman wrote:I read some comments by Tim Pool about two months ago, and that was enough to decide that he doesn't understand much of anything.

When he said he was a "left libertarian" it was enough for me.

He's extremely against identity politics but hypocritically frames many of his arguments with "as a mixed race person..." pointing out that he's part Korean every chance he gets which in itself is an argument based on identity.

This shows that he's either totally dishonest or simply don't know how to form a rational argument.

I think he's specifically trying to appeal to the middle of the IQ curve of people who are smart and knowledgeable enough to be attracted to his pseudo intellectual egalitarian BS but not smart and knowledgeable enough to see through the BS for what it is.

I suspect that he's part of the approved opposition since Youtube and Twitter hasn't taken the same actions against him that they've taken against people who aren't approved like Owen or Stefan.

Blogger Akulkis August 01, 2020 5:59 PM  

>>

I don't think it's a case of 'may not be possible', I think it's a case of from the start these companies being sold to investors as a means to dictate to consumers rather than persuading consumers.


No need to "sell" such an idea. You're talking about a local culture where everybody shares the same common goal.

Blogger tublecane August 01, 2020 6:03 PM  

Don't know Tim Pool except one of them hipster YouTubers in black knitcap and stylish facial scruff.

He was railing against the libs in a video I saw. Or SJWs, or something like that. But Jordan Peterson does that, too. Doesn't mean much.

I think he's anti-MSM. Which is better than being pro-.

Blogger Akulkis August 01, 2020 6:06 PM  

>> Tim Pool is a mid-wit leftist faux centrist gatekeeper. He's basically a slightly leftier Sargon of Akkad.

The guy has some pretty bad takes and his last several predictions have failed utterly. The only one that's plausible is his recent prediction of a civil conflict in the US but that's just being captain obvious.

Despite all of that, I like the fact that he gives me a view of what the left's "center" thinks. This is useful in and of itself, even if he's wrong.

Blogger Doom August 01, 2020 6:14 PM  

SciVo,

I prefer "Odysseada" as an analogue to octopada.

I was hoping someone would give an example of why. Not my game, but I was all but certain that this wheel had already been created. It was a matter of finding it. Not my game, but I enjoy spectating.

Blogger VFM #7634 August 01, 2020 6:15 PM  

I really, really hope the Bears aren't letting Paola from Airbnb off the hook.

Blogger Storm Rhode August 01, 2020 6:20 PM  

Tim did well in that situation. He reminds me of nice civilized progressives who can't understand the intentionally evil direction the left is going. Europeans will calmly debate the terms of their genocide until the numbers are there for democracy South Africa style. I suspect lack of religious training makes such people ignorant of evil.

Blogger Akulkis August 01, 2020 6:25 PM  

>> Tim Poole is a self-professed liberal centrist journalist who actually believes in reporting, truth, and the far left is crazy.

Tim's biggest failing is believing that journalism has anything to do with honest reporting, other than to be all but the opposite of it.

Blogger Ken Prescott August 01, 2020 6:31 PM  

If I were an actual customer of social media, I would be mightily annoyed by their antics with the consumers. I am paying them for access to the consumers, either they prorate their cost to reflect them cutting down my reach by banning potential customers, or they stop banning potential customers.

Blogger Beau August 01, 2020 6:33 PM  

OT

My ministry buddy Jim was traveling south after dusk on Union when he spotted rotating whoopie lights following him. Jim pulled into an Allsups and saw the lights belonged to a state trooper.

State Trooper: Do you know why I pulled you over?
Jim: I don't have lights on my trailer.
ST: That's true, but not why I pulled you over. You don't remember me, do you?
Jim: No sir, what did you arrest me for?
ST: I've never arrested you. I pulled you over because I wanted to thank you.
Jim: (confused)
ST: You prayed for my son when he was on meth. I wanted to tell you he is now clean.

Thank you Jesus.

Blogger Andrea Daley Utronebel August 01, 2020 6:36 PM  

Can financial services associated with US banking refuse service to anyone? After all, banks and financial sector are BAILED OUT by US taxpayers, and that means, EVERYONE, even 'nazis' must pay taxes to keep Wall Street afloat. If Wall Street is bailed out by all of us, how can it deny services to some of us? Private institutions that take public funding are forced to include everyone.

Also, why should Facebook, Google, and Twitter ban people when they (1) are monopolies for which different rules apply and (2) they became monopolies ONLY BECAUSE they assured neutrality and fairness to ALL in their inception. Suppose Facebook and Twitter had stated at their inception that they would ban or suppress rightwing voices, BDS & Palestinian voices, and conservative activists. MANY people would never used their services, and they would not became monopolies as conservatives and dissidents would have sought out alternative services. They became monopolies ONLY BECAUSE they promised neutrality and fairness. So, for them to change policy once they became monopolies and use their monopoly position(which they attained only with promise of neutrality) to shut rightists and conservatives down is nothing but the biggest HUSTLE in history of big business.

https://dailyandreaostrov.blogspot.com/2018/09/google-facebook-twitter-paypal-and-etc.html

Blogger Unknown August 01, 2020 6:46 PM  

8-1-2020 Poem title: I couldn't have a worry on a summer afternoon.


Dark lately; but Light's been born.

Things are about to get lit.

Grab your pop and chips.

Will EB Farnum be mayor again? I think the answer is "Yes."

Elections cannot inconvenience he that stands above EB;

they ratify his will, or he neuters them.

THEY RATIFY HIS WILL, OR HE NEUTERS THEM!

So it might not matter, yea or ney,

when the Order Bringer cometh;

when the Ice Man cometh;

when the Water Bearer cometh, to wash the rotting fish away.

Therefore...

I couldn't have a worry on a summer afternoon.

Half way through, summer through.

Will 19.5 yar after the hammer prove significant too?

It's 222 day away; leave it for the morrow, I am but a fool.

I couldn't have a worry on a summer afternoon,

with a pile of rocks to observe.

I couldn't have a worry on a summer afternoon,

with a bird's nest, four hatchlings deep.

I couldn't have a worry on a summer afternoon,

under the maple tree, or fixed cellar room.

I couldn't have a worry.

---end---

Blogger James Dixon August 01, 2020 6:48 PM  

> And, as I noted in Corporate Cancer, because they remain caught between the Scylla of class action litigation - now complete with jury trials - and the Charybdis of mass individual arbitration, there is no way to legally finesse their way out of the situation.

Since I don't believe JAMS allows for class action arbitration, this is likely true. Allowing for class action arbitration would largely resolve the issue.

> While it is early days yet, is that possible?

No one can stop them from trying. Their odds of success are somewhat less than optimal, as Vox notes.

Blogger tdcommenter August 01, 2020 6:54 PM  

@62 At least he uses the word evil when referring to media lies.

Blogger Timmy3 August 01, 2020 6:56 PM  

Tim will vote for Trump. That’s all you need to be concerned about.

Blogger Dole August 01, 2020 7:25 PM  

"I suspect that he's part of the approved opposition since Youtube and Twitter hasn't taken the same actions against him that they've taken against people who aren't approved like Owen or Stefan."

Disagreed. The problem is two-fold. First, they can not ban everyone at once, and Tim is considerably more left wing than the people banned in the last round. Second, Pool is making ton of money on youtube and has a very large audience, they will want to try if he "gets the hint" first.

I doubt he won't get banned before the election, unless he takes the hint and distances from Trump.

Blogger Akulkis August 01, 2020 7:27 PM  

>> Anyone who thinks Big Tech is going to try to fight this out does not understand the issues involved. The ground they on which they are standing has already been lost. The issues are already settled.

As best as I can tell, these matters were settled decades before there were any computer networks, as it's a matter of the US laws which protect the phone companies from charges of participation in crimes in exchange for not interfering with anybody's communication as long as they pay their bills and don't put non-conforming equipment on the wires.

If I'm wrong, somebody correct me.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( The Surprised Pig hadn't had any idea he tasted this good ) August 01, 2020 7:30 PM  

63. Akulkis August 01, 2020 6:25 PM
Tim's biggest failing is


how much vamping and padding he does to fill out his clips.

Jimmy Dore at least usually has something to say for most of the length of his stuff.

Blogger Akulkis August 01, 2020 7:35 PM  

>> Although I haven’t watched TV in about 7 or more years (not even a minute, not even in hotel rooms), I do have some insider info into the TV production industry. Same there: everybody knows “about“ Vox, nobody admits it, his name remains unutterable.

>> Strange ...

I find that both fascinating and telling.

For one, it indicates that the entire TV industry fears him. If they merely hated Vox, they would be talking shit about him all the time. Supreme Dark Lord indeed!

Blogger TheMaleRei August 01, 2020 7:45 PM  

Tim Pool is almost a meme all his own amongst his viewers:
"Well, it's complicated."
When in reality, it's not complicated at all, but he is desperate to keep his YouTube monetization and bends the knee as required.

He has his uses to get the attention of normies, and as others have stated, he is slowly but surely being redpilled about a lot of things.

Blogger weka August 01, 2020 8:11 PM  

And your confessor believes in the true, the beautiful and the Almighty?

Plenty do not.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella August 01, 2020 8:20 PM  

Dear Beau, thank you for praying for me and my family over the past year. I cannot convey in a public forum my specific situation, but please be certain that I am unconditionally grateful for your prayers.

Blogger Up from the pond August 01, 2020 8:33 PM  

Tried to delete duplicate comment but couldn't, apologies.

And guys, it's Oddesseusesssies.

Blogger Cynic In Chief August 01, 2020 8:51 PM  

Honestly, I think removing the restriction on class-action arbitration would be in big-tech's best interest. Sure you now get class-actions, but arbitration is considerably cheaper than court (even if the company has to shoulder much of the arbitration costs) and consolidating them into a single arbitration prevents the exponential explosion of costs that's hitting Patreon right now.

That still doesn't discourage any action like big tech was hoping individual arbitrations would, so you can't go around violating your own TOS or pissing off your customers. Perhaps a fee-shifting setup if allowed by CA law for cases declared bogus would help prevent frivolous arbitrations, but if your case has merit you can't prevent that, which is as it should be.

Blogger Pathfinderlight August 01, 2020 9:18 PM  

The point of a converged company isn't to provide a service or help its investors. It's to act as a weapon in their ongoing war to remove Western culture.

Blogger VFM #7634 August 01, 2020 9:27 PM  

The real question here is how to pluralize "Odysseus."

I submit "Odysseodes" for consideration.


Based on how βασιλεύς inflects, it would be οἱ Ὀδῠσσῆς / Ὀδῠσσῖς. Or Odysses / Odyssis in our alphabet. /sperg

Blogger papabear August 01, 2020 9:34 PM  

Kunstler would say the he didn't leave the (D)s, the (D)s left him. Kunstler is different from other white (D)s who have been left behind in so far as he is a journalist and author, not working-class, and he's a secular Jew who doesn't accept the tikkun plan thing.

Blogger SirHamster August 01, 2020 9:38 PM  

Akulkis wrote:>> Anyone who thinks Big Tech is going to try to fight this out does not understand the issues involved. The ground they on which they are standing has already been lost. The issues are already settled.

As best as I can tell, these matters were settled decades before there were any computer networks, as it's a matter of the US laws which protect the phone companies from charges of participation in crimes in exchange for not interfering with anybody's communication as long as they pay their bills and don't put non-conforming equipment on the wires.

If I'm wrong, somebody correct me.

With respect to Patreon and Vox's OP, it doesn't have to do with telecommunications and speech, but consumer rights and dispute resolution.

The consumer's right to class action, to jury trials, the conditions for arbitration, and the limits on one-sided TOSes.

The telecom stuff is another legal battlefield, but not the one on-topic.

Blogger Pathfinderlight August 01, 2020 9:56 PM  

Tim Pool is an identity complicated individual. He has stated in his past videos that he's part white, part Asian. That makes him anxious about a future where America starts breaking up along national lines.

He's pretty far left, but thinks he's centrist because he has half a brain and isn't a bad person trying to bring the US to its knees. His mentioning of race and such in his videos is mostly for clicks and views as well as to help the less intelligent viewers keep up. Sargon of Akkad supports him financially.

Blogger Akulkis August 01, 2020 10:18 PM  

> Tim Pool is incapable of removing his own hat. Never forget this.

Weak criticism.

Blogger A trite re-white August 01, 2020 10:47 PM  

Excellent, crank up the volume.

Blogger SciVo August 01, 2020 11:53 PM  

Doom wrote:I was hoping someone would give an example of why. Not my game, but I was all but certain that this wheel had already been created. It was a matter of finding it. Not my game, but I enjoy spectating.

Well I misremembered the Greek plural of octopus, probably conflating with the phylum name of octopoda. It would be octopodes, so by my own reasoning I take it back, Odysseodes is perfect.

Blogger Katechon August 02, 2020 12:03 AM  

The day youtube will ban Tim Pool, will be the tipping point. He's precisely on the center of the spectrum.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 02, 2020 1:10 AM  

"I don't think it's a case of 'may not be possible', I think it's a case of from the start these companies being sold to investors as a means to dictate to consumers rather than persuading consumers."

Close, some companies do work that way from the start, such as FaceBook an Youtube. For most of the rest, dictating to "consumers" is an attempt at making them "useful". Really they exist as would-be parasitic entities in the warm waters where the wavefronts of excess bankster-money and hypothetical --or plausibly deniable hypothetical-- profit on new tech converge.

Because one of the key goals of a parasite is to remain unnoticed by threats until its life cycle is complete, they adopt the political views that their potential financiers find desirable quite easily. Now to be fair some of their low tier financiers are taken in by this, but the higher powers flip the table and intentionally use it to propagate the paradigm they wish the common man to hold.

This type of dynamic happens in other areas as well, such as education. Lose or abrogate function > become a parasite > become a thrall to the fraudulent money flow > become clearly malicious to the common man as you stop caring what he thinks. We are also seeing it in the medical system, much of agriculture, politics, the list goes on and on.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 02, 2020 1:14 AM  

Like the communists, the globalists think that if they can blank the slate of the way things are enough, they can write whatever they please there. If the Tabula isn't rasa... well, it has to be made that way, and all the laws of God and Man are only temporary obstacles.

Blogger Troushers August 02, 2020 1:27 AM  

Just to add to the Tim Pool freelance infogalactic profiling, my favourite anecdote concerns Pool and Malmo, Sweden.

As I remember it, there was a minor furore over Trump tweeting something or other about violent disorder in Sweden which provided ammunition for late night hosts and stupid Leftists to pretend he was wrong. Pool offered to investigate by funding a trip to Malmo and poking around.

When it looked like it might actually happen, suddenly the same people who argued Trump was wrong and there was no problem with violence in Malmo in particular started urging Pool NOT to investigate as it would only encourage the right in their crazy belief that Malmo is a lawless, violent, criminal immigrant gang-run hellhole.

Pool made the trip and, of course, discovered that Malmo was a lawless, violent, criminal immigrant gang-run hellhole. You can get a flavour of this despite the spin in Mashables writeup:(https://mashable.com/2017/03/01/tim-pool-sweden-investigation/)

"In Rinkeby, 2:30 PM, several men started masking up and following us. Police told us to leave and had to escort us to our car."

Just normal Swedish behaviour.

"They [the police] said it would be smart if they followed us out. He said "if we make an arrest right now there could be 50 people here in minutes with stones" As we were walking out people started following us. The police escorted us to our car and we left."

Police too afraid of mob action to make arrests? Damn those native Swedes!

Tim Pool does average, normal journalism in an era of dishonest activists, so seems exceptional only by comparison.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd August 02, 2020 1:53 AM  

Vox, when Patreon joins the dodo and the passenger pigeon, I do hope you will be able to continue the replatforming deal. Maybe direct through Arkhaven or Castalia?

Blogger Akulkis August 02, 2020 6:09 AM  

>> Vox, when Patreon joins the dodo and the passenger pigeon, I do hope you will be able to continue the replatforming deal. Maybe direct through Arkhaven or Castalia?


Western Union will always work. They neither know nor care who the recipient is. All they ask for is a transaction number.

Blogger Katusov August 02, 2020 8:24 AM  

Tim Pool is a bit hyperbolic in his style of reporting. He does however, bring you the smaller stories on the culture war, those that will never see the light of day on the MSM. He is also a work horse, who puts out several videos a day. The day Crowder helped him a firearm showed that the worm is starting to turn for some of these liberal anti gunners.

Blogger jkmack August 02, 2020 8:33 AM  

I do not know the trap that Vox laid with his ASL example, but his plural Odysseus trap in this post, paid dividends.

Blogger Unknown August 02, 2020 9:30 AM  

"no longer depend upon their consumers for their operating income. To the contrary, they have transformed consumers into users that are nothing more than raw material for their real customers. This is why they simply don't possess a culture of giving a damn about their users, let alone harboring any regard for a single user they don't like for one reason or another."

This is the MO of the Republican party.

Blogger Skyler the Weird August 02, 2020 10:01 AM  

Sing to me of the man, Muse, the man of twists and turns driven time and again off course, once he had plundered the hallowed heights of R.J. Reynolds and Asbestos Manufacturers......

Blogger OvergrownHobbit August 02, 2020 8:09 PM  

Tim Poole's very touchy about having gone bald.

Yes, many men are. The reason Barad-Due was eternally swathed in impenetrable smoke and flame was to hide Sauron's bald spot ~ JCW

Blogger Trumpeter August 03, 2020 7:14 AM  

100+

Blogger Akulkis August 03, 2020 6:28 PM  

>> >> Tim Poole's very touchy about having gone bald.

>> Yes, many men are.

Not anywhere close to how touchy a woman is who starts going bald.

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